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Diego Rossi's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 10,111 posts (10,651 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. No wishlists. 7 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

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Ravingdork wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The black tentacles spell says that the tentacles deal damage with a successful check to maintain the grapple. It never really says that the tentacles let go if they fail the check though. So...are the victims only able to escape on their turn?

Uhhh, normally your questions are pretty good.

What happened today?

The word "maintain" doesn't even appear in the spell description. So it made me wonder if you even needed to make any such check.

It only talks about checks to deal damage, not to maintain. The spell also says creatures can't move until THEY can break the grapple. That implies that they can only break out on their turn, rather than the caster's turn.

I don't really see it as a poor question at all.

PRD wrote:

Every creature within the area of the spell is the target of a combat maneuver check made to grapple each round at the beginning of your turn, including the round that black tentacles is cast.

...
The black tentacles spell receives a +5 bonus on grapple checks made against opponents it is already grappling ...
PRD wrote:


Grapple

As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options.
...
If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition
...
If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold.
...
Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).
...

You re grappling at straws, Rav.

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For me instead the meandering path don't count for anything. What matter is the end effect. You are using a magic item to cast a SLA. And using a magic item to cast a spell, in my opinion, don't count for a feat prerequisite.
If you remove the magic item you can't cast it, so it isn't an inherent ability.
The enhancement from belts and headbands, instead, is explicitly part of the character permanent abilities (see the glossary).
From my point of view you need an explicit permission to count something coming from a magic item as part of your character inherent abilities.

Our positions are too far apart to be resolved without an intervention from the PDT.

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PRD wrote:

A ring of spell knowledge is only a storage space; the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring. Thereafter, the arcane spellcaster may cast the spell as though she knew the spell and it appeared on her class' spell list.

Arcane spells that do not appear on the wearer's class list are treated as one level higher for all purposes (storage and casting).

Heroism - level 2 spell in the bard list don't appear in a sorcerer spell list, it has Heroism - level 3 sorcerer/wizard spell, so the bolded part would apply an the spell would be treated as a third level spell.

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You attack are aligned if you have a alignment subtype.
I.e. an Angel has the subtype "good" and his attacks are good aligned.

PRD wrote:
Good Subtype: This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the good-aligned outer planes. Most creatures that have this subtype also have good alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has a good alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the good subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are good-aligned (see Damage Reduction).

Same thing for the other alignments.

A few classes get the ability to apply an alignment to their weapons unarmed strikes included) but generally that last for a short span of time.

If you are large you can't pick up a small paladin and use him as a improvised good weapon ;-)

The level of "alignment" of a typical player character is too small, even when it is a paladin, to say that his body is made of "aligned" material.
Outsiders instead are made of their plane basic material, so they are made of aligned material.

Adding some template can infuse a PC or NPC with aligned materials, so that he will count as made by that material.

Liberty's Edge

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

No point in buying a bane cold silver or iron arrow.

you need +1 before you can enhance the ammo

bane increases the + by +2, resulting in a +3 weapon.

+3 weapons overcome cold iron and silver.

Sometime you need them to stop regeneration. A +3 weapon bypass DR, but it do nothing for regeneration.

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Buri Reborn wrote:

Unfortunately, that wording implies that it has a static appearance that is the same for all observers. This spell is a glamor. The type of illusion you'd be looking for appears to be a pattern.

Quote:
Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.

I think you are replying to something different from what he asked.

@potent: Yes, you can have character A appear to be an ogre, B a elf, C a rat and enemies 1 and 2 dogs and 3 a cat. As Buri said that appearance is the same for all observers, but you can select a specific appearance for each target.

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Xuldarinar wrote:
Akkurscid wrote:
Quote:

Alarm says...

...Area 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a point in space

I would have to say it does not move with the room.

So we define an area as a fixed location in space, which makes a planet's movement something to ignore or something to consider. The former is unrealist (though it is a game afterall), and the latter rapidly complicates things.

Generally it depend on the kind of room and the GM.

With me as a GM:
A tent? No, if you pick it up and set it down in a new location.
The internal of a carriage? Probably yes.
A ship cabin? Surely.

If the "room" is something reasonably permanent and well defined for me it is a valid area for alarm even if it move.
If it is something that collapse on itself and then is put up again, like a tent, if is a valid location only as long as it stay in the same location.

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Val'bryn2 wrote:
Gauss wrote:
CRB p208 wrote:
Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents, are considered attacks. Attempts to channel energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures in the area. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.
Right there, if there is no harm, it is not an attack.

If I cast Harm on an enemy, not knowing that he's a vampire/lich/some undead that doesn't necessarily LOOK like a bag of bones, is it not an attack because he benefits? Same for hitting a golem with a spell that would, in fact, heal it?

PRD wrote:

Attacks of Opportunity

Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity.

No mention is made of enemies, just combatants near the provoking character

PRD wrote:

Threatened Squares

You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity.

Here it DOES mention enemies, but still, two separate paragraphs on the same rules say different things.

It is not "two different paragraphs that say different things", it is a single rule where the second paragraph specify how it work.

By your logic I can take the first paragraph of most feats and say that the feat work differently.
"I throw away the part I dislike" isn't how rules work.

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Val'bryn2 wrote:
Threatened squares talks as if only enemies can provoke, but attacks of opportunity talks using the more generic term "combatants". The problem is the wording of the rules is not quite internally consistent.

Only if you want to have it work another way. The rule is clear: "An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you."

Reading something different in that phrase from what it say mean that someone is purposefully misreading it.

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Protoman wrote:
Slithery D wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Constructs can drink potions and benefit from it.
Can they? They only semi-applicable rule I can think of is the Iron Body spell, which says you can't drink or benefit from potions in that condition.

While the bestiary just says "Constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep" that doesn't include drinking.

Advanced Race Guide has some additional info on that: "Constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of these activities. This means that a construct can drink potions to benefit from their effects and can sleep in order to regain spells, but neither of these activities is required to survive or stay in good health."

And potion rules has: "Any corporeal creature can imbibe a potion or use an oil."

So as long as the potion/infusion spell effect could affect golems: no issues with spell immunity/SR; doesn't have to only affect living creatures (cure X wounds for healing), and if requiring a fortitude save for whatever reason would also affect objects or is harmless; the potion/infusion ought to work.

I think that the rule from the ARG you cite applies only to constructs created using that book, not to the Bestiary constructs.

I see it as a exception made for the benefit of playable races, not a general rule.

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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Domestichauscat wrote:
I did this once. One time I played a Hellknight and our chaotic bard was falling into some death water off the boat we were on. I asked the gm if I can hit him as an attack of opportunity for him losing his balance and falling off the boat. He said yes. I proceeded to smite him with the blunt sides of my spear like a baseball bat and he fell back onto the boat unharmed from the death water, but bruised. Was one of my favorite moments of the game.
I would have allowed instead an immediate action and improvised rules as needed to cover the mechanics of what you wanted to do. That way I don't get the Combat Reflexes wonk who says that he could do what you did multiple times per round.

That, especially if you were out of combat.

Having a GM mean that he can rule about this kind of action. As an heroic action it well within the spirit of the game to find a way to allow it.
"Breaking" action economy allowing it to be done regularly isn't.

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Snowblind wrote:
VRMH wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
If the caster threatens with a natural or unarmed attack then they can deliver with that.
Yes but you don't threaten an ally, now do you?
There is a majority consensus in this thread that by strict RAW you probably do threaten an ally.

To be precise: you threaten the square, but only actions by an enemy provoke an AoO:

PRD wrote:


Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you're unarmed, you don't normally threaten any squares and thus can't make attacks of opportunity.
Bob_Loblaw wrote:
swoosh wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
There is a majority consensus in this thread that by strict RAW you probably do threaten an ally.
Quote:
An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you.
Bolded for emphasis. You do not.
You've taken that out of context, though. The only time the entire section mentions enemy is that one sentence. The rest of the time it is much more generic. Also, many people have said that you should be able to declare someone an enemy if you choose and then an ally if you choose. I'm in this camp. It opens up tactics that you didn't have available before.

No Bob, he is right. The rule is very clear, you threaten, but only an enemy action provoke an AoO.

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wraithstrike wrote:

Where/what is the rule option for magically hardening walls?

It is not something I would use all the time, but there are times it would be nice to have.

The one I have found first is here: walls but I am fairly sure it exist in other section of the books with the same or similar text.

PRD wrote:

Walls

The walls that guard castles and cities are sturdy fortifications, usually constructed in a series of 5-foot squares. A square of wall has an AC of 5, and hardness and hit points equal to its type.

Squares of walls can be magically treated. Doing so doubles the hardness and hit points. Magically treating wall squares costs 500 gp per wall square. A spellcaster with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat can magically treat walls.

When a wall gains the broken condition, its hardness is halved, but the wall is not breached. Only destroying a section of wall allows it to become breached. When a square of wall is breached, any sections directly above it fall onto the missing section of walls. Doing this reduces the falling wall section to half its current hit point total –1, which applies the broken condition to that square of wall.

Then there is the hardening spell linked a few posts above.

My take is that the hardening of walls described above is more of a enchanting or alchemist process than casting a spell.
I recall readying somewhere (probably in the 3.0 ed. Strongholds book) that it require the Craft wondrous items feat.

Edit: Pizza did find the reference about the Craft woundrous items.

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Ravingdork wrote:
I imagine the characters are not stabbing at the padlock (that's silly), but sticking it in between the lock bars and prying, similar to an indestructible crowbar. Ergo, the inappropriate weapon rule probably should not apply.

Improbable. A dagger has a short handle, you can't get the leverage.

What you do is to cut way the bolt or the hinges.
It work even if not perfectly, it still is a tool made do different things. An adamantine chisel would be better.
both solution leave a broken lock/door behind.

To the OP: Beside all the other considerations, look the rule about magically hardening walls. 500 gp for a 10'*10' area, an increase of 10 points of hardness and double hp.
That would make stone doors immune to the adamantine items ability to bypass 20 points of hardness, and the cost is relatively low for the NPC you encounter in a high level adventure.

"Mundane" locks, doors and chests shouldn't be a problem for adventures of even middle levels, they are speed bumps, meant to deplete part of the duration of round/level and minute/level spells, not obstacles.

Those that are meant to be obstacles should be hardened end enhanced appropriately.

Pizza Lord wrote:

Making a material that bypassed all hardness was one of the most short-sighted ideas that came along. A material that ignored half the hardness of any material below 20 would have been just as awesome.

It don't "bypassed all hardness", it is "bypass any hardness lower than 20". Big difference in a game where most magically enhanced items get an hardness of 20+.

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Forseti wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

After a couple of seconds it deposit on everything, even the invisible person. But there is a big difference between what stick to a moving creature against what fall to the ground.

You have ever seen one of those graduation ceremonies where students throw handful of flour against the one getting his degree?
They are throwing flour directly against him, but unless he/she is wet very little stick to the target. And they are throwing it directly against him.

I've seen pictures (and video) of Kim Kardashian being flour-bombed. She was covered in copious amounts.

Diego Rossi wrote:

In this situation you aren't doing that, you are throwing your flour in the air or on the ground trying to cover the whole square.

so it do [b+exactly[/b+ what it say it do. It "momentarily reveals if there is an invisible creature there".

you see, there is a rule,it say exactly what it do. Arguing that it "logically should do" something different as no place in this section of the forum.

There's no doubt in my mind that there will be significant amounts of flour on a creature if there was enough flour to outline it. The invisibility mentioned in the powder entry is referring to the general concept of invisibility, as mentioned in the glossary. (Which, incidentally, includes this snippet: "One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour falls off or blows away).")

Diego Rossi wrote:

So for you, how long is "momentarily" and how you read "reveals if there is an invisible creature there" is the same thing as it is cover it and make it visible?

That's another problem right there. "Momentarily" is not specifically defined in the rules so anyone's interpretation of how long this moment lasts is valid. Anyone's interpretation that's not ridiculous is valid and a correct way to handle the powder issue in the game.

Also, who's to say that the interpretation of "momentarily" we're supposed to apply here isn't its...

PRD wrote:
One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour falls off or blows away).

Object, not a creature, for the simple reason that you aren't throwing some flour in its general direction, you are coating it.

Coating something in flour is a bit more thoroughly than simply throwing the flour in its area and hoping that enough will cover it.

And, just for the record, a unit of powder is 1/2 lbs, about 230 grams. In a 1,5*1,5 meters area.
About 1 gram for square cm of the floor. Way kless when you consider all the vertical surfaces. "significant amounts". Not really.

You are missing the not insignificant point that you are targeting the square, not a creature.

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Forseti wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:
Forseti wrote:
Only one of those options makes sense and the answer that makes sense is always the one you pick when rules don't deal with the question.
You would think, but some explicitly believe otherwise. They make up rules about what happens when the rules are silent... the text does not say creatures get covered so by magical default rule #77, they do not.

The rules don't say anything at all about what happens to the powder when you throw it at the square. When Diego writes: "you are creating a cloud of calk or flour in the square and you see the empty outline of the creature", that's not in the rules either. He made that up. But it is what you would expect when you throw around generous helpings of powdery substance. It makes sense in the imaginary world.

Filling in sensible specifics where the rules fall short is something everyone does all the time. It's such a natural thing to do that Diego probably didn't even realize that he criticized me for making something up while the whole scenario he paints is one he just made up himself and has just as little grounding in the rules as written as my version.

What makes no sense, is to invent sensible stuff where the rules aren't explicit, but at some point in the narrative arbitrarily stop following through. If you imagine a cloud of powder, the powder is there all the way, and it should behave like a cloud of powder, or your game devolves into nonsense.

Perfect, you throw the powder and it do something, that something is spelled out:

"momentarily reveals if there is an invisible creature there".
Full stop.

I added an explanation of how it do that, you added something that isn't in that text and actually contradict it.

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Forseti wrote:

So where does all the powder go? Does it disappears completely? Does it settle down to indiscriminately cover anything that happens to be in the square? Does it magically avoid creatures in the square?

Only one of those options makes sense and the answer that makes sense is always the one you pick when rules don't deal with the question.

After a couple of seconds it deposit on everything, even the invisible person. But there is a big difference between what stick to a moving creature against what fall to the ground.

You have ever seen one of those graduation ceremonies where students throw handful of flour against the one getting his degree?
They are throwing flour directly against him, but unless he/she is wet very little stick to the target. And they are throwing it directly against him.
In this situation you aren't doing that, you are throwing your flour in the air or on the ground trying to cover the whole square.
so it do exactly what it say it do. It "momentarily reveals if there is an invisible creature there".

you see, there is a rule,it say exactly what it do. Arguing that it "logically should do" something different as no place in this section of the forum.

CBDunkerson wrote:
Forseti wrote:
Only one of those options makes sense and the answer that makes sense is always the one you pick when rules don't deal with the question.
You would think, but some explicitly believe otherwise. They make up rules about what happens when the rules are silent... the text does not say creatures get covered so by magical default rule #77, they do not.

So for you, how long is "momentarily" and how you read "reveals if there is an invisible creature there" is the same thing as it is cover it and make it visible?

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Forseti wrote:
Chemlak wrote:
All this talk of "it's outside the rules"? Nope, sorry. The pinpointing rules are clear as day, and do not include any special caveats about items not picked up by the invisible character. Even the ubiquitous "bag of powder" trick only allows pinpointing "momentarily" and only works in a single square, and the rules for that suggest that sprinkling it on the floor and tracking (what do you know, there are rules for tracking invisible creatures, too) is more effective.

The bag of flour trick will work for as long as the creature is covered in it in my games.

Quote:
Powdered chalk, flour, and similar materials are popular with adventurers for their utility in pinpointing invisible creatures. Throwing a bag of powder into a square is an attack against AC 5, and momentarily reveals if there is an invisible creature there. A much more effective method is to spread powder on a surface (which takes 1 full round) and look for footprints.
That's how the bag works against general invisibility. One manner of becoming invisible is the more specific Invisibility spell, which has its own caveat about how to deal with stuff picked up while under its influence.

Re-read what you quoted, in particular the parts I bolded.

1) you don't throw the bag at a creature, you throw it to a square.

2) it momentarily reveal if there is a invisible creature in the square.

So you are not covering the creature with calk or flour, you are creating a cloud of calk or flour in the square and you see the empty outline of the creature.

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dragonhunterq wrote:

2 things spring to mind, one Earth Glide is the specific ability here as it is clarifying both the spell and the creature.

second, not seeing a conflict with the spell as it requires move earth to be cast on the area, not the creature. It is disrupting the earth the elemental is moving through, which affects the creature, not the elemental directly.

So, yeah critter gets stunned despite the immunity.

Move Earth wrote:

Area dirt in an area up to 750 ft. square and up to 10 ft. deep (S)

This spell has no effect on earth creatures.

1) the spell can't target a creature

2) the spell say that it don't affect earth creatures.

Earth Glide (Ex wrote:
) When the creature burrows, it can pass through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. If protected against fire damage, it can even glide through lava. Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other sign of its presence. A move earth spell cast on an area containing the burrowing creature flings it back 30 feet, stunning it for 1 round unless it succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save.

1) Earth glide say that if the creature is in a area targeted by a Move earth spell it the creature can eb stunned.

2) Nowhere it say: "this override specific immunity to stunning" nor "this override the specific limit of move earth where ti say This spell has no effect on earth creatures."

So no, it don't override specific immunities.
It work on druids wildshaped into earth elemental, oracles with the stone gliding ability and any other creature with stone gliding that isn't a earth creature, but it don't bypass specific immunity as stone gliding don't say that the stun effect bypass specific immunities.

To apply "specific beat generic" you need to have a specific that say that it beat generic immunities.
"a fireball deal fire damage" don't beat "immunity to fire", even if that is the specific of the spell while immunity to fire is a a benefit of the generic fire subtype.

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N N 959 wrote:

@OP

It appears no specific rule cover this, but it's unequivocal that if an arrow did stick into a person, the arrow would remain visible per RAW. While it's clearly open to GM adjudication, I would highly recommend GMing the game in a manner as consisted with reality as you can manage. If that means some BBEG gets taken out much easier than you thought...you can always create more.

In real life, an invisible person gets shot with arrows, you're going to be able to at least track the square based on the arrows. So as others have suggested, I'd allow pinpointing without negating the miss chance.

Arrows kill by piercing and sticking. If you're not sure about this, watch a bow hunter reality TV show.

Alternatively, let the wizard spend a round to pull out the arrows.

Then remember to add the encumbrance of the new arrow, the damage to armor and clothing and so on.

"You must be realistic."

BTW: "He has hit me with his weapon, so there is blood on it, I see where he is ..."

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Jiggy wrote:
Covent wrote:
...the ammunition is destroyed after a hit.

Forgot that part! Yeah, that changes the equation.

The player should have used a net instead. :D

Also, wow, it's amazing how many people missed my "ammo is destroyed" error and instead went with the (also wrong) "if it's on his person it's automatically invisible too" answer. And then there's the whole "maybe getting hit doesn't actually mean getting hit because HP might not mean what the CRB says it means" thing. I guess we could all stand to put a little more effort into actually knowing what the hell we're talking about.

So! Let's put it all together! Walking through it step by step:

We know that the damage dealt from the arrows was piercing damage. More to the point, it was not slashing damage (so we know it didn't graze him with a slice as it passed by) and it was not bludgeoning damage (so we know it didn't run into him and explode without puncturing him).

We know that the CRB defines hit point damage as actually physically getting hit (not straining to dodge at the last second or whatever), which is further backed up by the interactions (or distinct lack thereof) between the rules for cure spells, fatigue/exhaustion, injury and contact poisons, natural HP recovery, falling damage, rolling a 1 on a save against an AoE, and plenty else.

Furthermore, we know that "ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless". This clearly includes the possibility of breaking into pieces, but also clearly includes the possibility of simply being bent/cracked/split to the point of uselessness while still being all one piece. As the rules go no deeper on this topic, it's left to the GM to make a ruling. Given that the OP's goal is to find a way to enforce how he wants things to go, I'll go out on a limb and say we're going with "broken into pieces".

When you put the above three paragraphs together, we have the following firmly established: The arrows physically struck the target, they punctured the...

There is a BIG difference between being hit and having arrow stick in you in Pathfinder.

You are trying to apply RL logic to an abstract system, but the you stop halfway because applying it in full will break the system.

RL: you get hit by a solid hit by an arrow, it penetrate a few centimeters and stick in your body, true.
But then you have a piece and metal and wood struck into your body. Moving increase the damage, probably you are bleeding, there are very good chances that you are dead or incapacitated.

Pathfinder: you get hit by a arrow, you lose X hit points. End of the effect.

If you want to add effects because it is "more realistic" you should redo the whole system as you are breaking piece of it to follow your tastes and you shouldn't do it in the rule forum.

PRD wrote:
Hit Points (hp): Hit points are an abstraction signifying how robust and healthy a creature is at the current moment. To determine a creature's hit points, roll the dice indicated by its Hit Dice. A creature gains maximum hit points if its first Hit Die roll is for a character class level. Creatures whose first Hit Die comes from an NPC class or from his race roll their first Hit Die normally. Wounds subtract hit points, while healing (both natural and magical) restores hit points. Some abilities and spells grant temporary hit points that disappear after a specific duration. When a creature's hit points drop below 0, it becomes unconscious. When a creature's hit points reach a negative total equal to its Constitution score, it dies.

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Jiggy wrote:
DM Jelani wrote:

I have a player who successfully pinpointed a creature under greater invisibilty during one round (due to the invisible creature casting a spell with a point of origin), and shot it twice with his longbow, successfully overcoming the miss chance. Now the player is insisting that his arrows should be visible, and that he should be able to visually track them in order to automatically pinpoint which square the invisible creature is in. Furthermore, he is asking that it negate/mitigate the miss chance from total concealment. I know that this is wrong, but I don't know how to articulate the reason it's wrong using the rules. Can anyone spell out exactly why, per RAW, the arrows shouldn't be visible?

I know I can just say, "I'm the DM, too bad bub." But I don't like doing that unless I have to. Thanks in advance for any advice.

The invisibility spell description wrote:
...items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature.

Those arrows are visible until the creature spends the actions to hide them behind his invisible clothes. (Perhaps this is why wizards wear those flowing robes? In fact, I think I'm adopting that as headcanon now. But anyway, moving on...)

Strictly speaking, the rules are silent on what effects result from having visible arrows sticking out of an invisible target, so that's a GM call. However, any sense of internal consistency for your game world is shattered if the visible, seemingly-floating arrows don't tell you anything (and you'll probably lose any sort of trust from your players and be branded an adversarial GM who just wants to "win", deserved or not). Personally, I'd let it reveal the caster's position, but not mitigate the miss chance.

Hope that helps!

Please, show me the rule that explain what result you need to do to have the arrows stick in your target instead of grazing him.

Doing 1 hit point of damage is enough or you need more?
Barely rolling enough to hit is enough or we need more?
If we hit touch AC it stick in the armor even if we miss the enemy actual AC?

There is no rule about arrow sticking in a target, adding it change the game.

if we follow this kind of logic: I have wounded you with my sword, your blood a has been spilled, now it is outside of you and visible. You need to tuck it away to make it invisible again .

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DM Jelani wrote:

I have a player who successfully pinpointed a creature under greater invisibilty during one round (due to the invisible creature casting a spell with a point of origin), and shot it twice with his longbow, successfully overcoming the miss chance. Now the player is insisting that his arrows should be visible, and that he should be able to visually track them in order to automatically pinpoint which square the invisible creature is in. Furthermore, he is asking that it negate/mitigate the miss chance from total concealment. I know that this is wrong, but I don't know how to articulate the reason it's wrong using the rules. Can anyone spell out exactly why, per RAW, the arrows shouldn't be visible?

I know I can just say, "I'm the DM, too bad bub." But I don't like doing that unless I have to. Thanks in advance for any advice.

The arrows don't stick in the target. Most of the hit points damage are grazes, cuts and bruises, not an arrow piercing your lung and sticking out.

Hit points are a abstract representation of our ability to dodge, get minor wounds and still be able to fight and so on.

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hasteroth wrote:
Our 4 star VO whom I spoke to online later said he's not really familiar with the Magus either as the only archetype he wanted to play isn't legal, and just as surprising... Magi really aren't popular in this particular pool of players for some reason.

It seem to be a circular thing. People (GMs and players) in your area don't know how a magus work so they don't use them, and as no one use them no one learn hot they work.

What trouble me a bit is that you don't seem to realize that, while you later corrected it, you did a serious error. Missing how a core mechanic of a class work is pushing a player into rerolling. It is the equivalent of glancing a druid description and saying "Your animal companion is a wolf, it use the stats of the wolf in the Bestiary."
If you don't know how a class work it is better to spend 10 minutes before the start of the game to read it carefully. You will still miss some nuance but you need a good grasp of the base abilities.

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Blindmage wrote:
dragonhunterq wrote:
Blindmage wrote:
I've always read the all as simply meaning, that you don't have to pick a specific knowledge, like arcana, or religion, etc, but that the dc10 cap is still there.
You do realise that that means that bardic knowledge does nothing then? Anyone can already try a DC10 knowledge(anything) check.
But you get your bonus on all untrained skills, so your trained and untrained knowledges are still fairly close. Even skills you have no training in are half as good as those you do, bards always get the bonuses, making the dc10 automatic at lvl20, you know all the common knowledge without a single roll.

Take 10. Intelligence 10. No skill. Any class.

"all the common knowledge without a single roll."

There is no need of a class ability for that.

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SillyString wrote:


I guess it depends on whether the "You gain a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks, and you can deal piercing damage with your unarmed strikes." part of snake style effect (and thereby boar's too) is always active AND whether or not being capable dealing slashing damage with a weapon makes it a slashing weapon.

"You can deal slashing damage with it" don't make something a slashing weapon. To be a slashing weapon it should that in the hands of everyone.

CBDunkerson wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Slashing Grace doesn't work like that, it requires you to choose a weapon when you take the feat, and the weapon has to qualify for the feat on its own merits.

Sure. Unarmed strikes are a weapon. If those strikes do slashing damage then they qualify for Slashing Grace.

Quote:
At the time you're taking Slashing Grace, Boar Style is not active

Why not?

Boar Style can be activated at any time. Someone with the feat could use it to deal slashing damage in every actual combat and every 'off screen practice session'. If all the training and experience someone undertook to learn the Slashing Grace feat came from using Boar Style to do slashing damage then how would it have not been active when they learned the feat?

Quote:
But they cannot pick Slashing Grace with a greatsword, because it is not considered a one-handed weapon for the purpose of feat selection during character creation or leveling up.
A greatsword cannot be used with slashing grace because it is a two-handed weapon. Even if someone has an ability allowing them to use it one-handed (or just using a small greatsword) that doesn't stop it BEING a two-handed weapon.

Slashing grace requirement point to the weapon, not your other abilities. The weapon is a slashing weapon? No. Test failed, don't work.

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FrozenLaughs wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, you've cast magical enchantments upon your physical body, much in the way that you would enchant a weapon. You've made them permanent, just as you would a weapon or any other object. Your enchantments remain upon the body even as the soul leaves the body, because it's not the soul that is enchanted, just the vessel.

If you are polymorphed permanently and then die, does your soul travel to the appropriate Plane looking like an Elf, a women (if you were male) or a frog? No. You go back looking as you did when you were created. Reincarnation? That's a whole different discussion that could be argued either way.

Anyways, does a broken weapon lose its enchantments when broken? No. (unless I've blatantly missed a rule) Destroyed? Yes, there's nothing left to physically hold the magic so it dissipates. Why are we applying different logic to a body?

And you can even recover the magic in a destroyed magic item is you have make whole and your level is high enough.

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Which makes no sense.

If the intent of the Superstition Rage Power is "I hate Magic, I'll do anything to not have to deal with Magic," then that should include not being able to be automatically targeted by the spell too.

In other words, if you're unwilling towards the effects of the spell, you should be unwilling towards being targeted by the spell too, meaning an attack roll should be required (but isn't, because apparently that makes sense).

Thin it this way:

"I fear magic. Magic is Dangerous."
Friend touch you to cast a beneficial spell.
Conscious thought: "He is healing me, I need this spell."
Subconscious: "Magic, magic is death, I must resist."

He want to accept the spell, but his hindbrain think it is dangerous.
And when he is raging it is his instinct that command, not his reason.

To make a RL example: a insulin injection is very important for a diabetic, but if he suffer of needle phobia he will have a hard time forcing himself to accept it.

BTW:

PRD wrote:


Superstition (Ex): The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.

The rage power don't speak anywhere of hate, fear or whatever. Any explanation of why he is particularly resistant to magic is left to the player. It can be the blessing of the clan elder he received when he was a child together with the geas of never harming a black rooster.

"Superstition" can easily refer to some superstitious ward against evil (with the lowercase) that he always use to protect himself against magic. It is a morale bonus, so, as long as he think it work, it give him a bonus to his saves.

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Abraham Z. wrote:

Yep, I am talking about the rage power. Didn't even realize that is an archetype of the same name.

The superstition rage power is extremely common, in my experience, and also a fun way to play a barbarian: gives a significant boost to your saves (my barbarian's problems have all been caused by failed saves) and also is very flavorful in terms of role play. It is also a prereq for the spell sunder rage power, which is also lots of fun, and is probably the main reason that I didn't switch this character to an unchained barbarian when Unchained came out.

However, it does have this potential death trap built into it, as discussed in the thread above. I had previously thought that a superstitious barbarian just had to save against healing spells (meaning that it uses up double the resources). But the realization that a superstitious barbarian can't willingly accept such healing is a whole different situation. If you are unconscious (but still raging via Raging Vitality) your friends can come over and hit you with some healing. Even unconscious you'll have to save, as pointed out by Diego above, but you'll still take half the healing. The really dangerous point is once you wake up. Now you can't willingly accept your allies' healing spells, but unless you've been brought to a hp level where you can safely drop out of rage (probably falling unconscious again, but at least not being dead), you will be very likely to die once your rounds of rage run out. In fact, absent some form of non-spell healing, or your allies' grappling your raging self and *forcing* you to drink the damn potion, it's hard for me to see how a barbarian doesn't auto-die in this situation.

Obviously this is totally moot if you've got a channeling cleric, a paladin with lay on hands, etc, but you really can't count on that in pfs.

Quote:
Superstition (Ex): The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.

It say "willing target" and that has a specific meaning in Pathfinder. It isn't the same thing as "he can't willingly accept". It don't mean that you will punch in the face whoever try to cast a spell on you. It mean that, for the spells requiring that, you can't be a willing target. So it is not possible to cast teleport on a raging superstitious barbarian, but it is possible to cast any healing spell without him actively resist. simply his innate distrust make it resist the spell, hence the need to roll a save.

You can drink a potion, you simply are forced to try to save.

PRD - magic chapter wrote:

Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets.

...
Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.

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The Sword wrote:

5ft step faq question

There are arguments on both sides and the words of the text can be construed to support either argument. Have a read through and ultimately speak to your group to see which way you want to play with and stick to it.

I'm disappointed that with 110 FAQs no-one picked this one up.

That FAQ request is badly worded. The reply to the generic question: "If I have an action interrupted by another characters readied action (or AoO), and my action is no longer valid as a result, can I choose to take a different action in place of the one that triggered the readied action?" is clear: no.

If you provoke a AoO casting a spell and lose you hae expended your standard action and you can't change your action.
After committing to an action you can't "take it back".

But that isn't what the OP is asking. What he ask is way more nuanced and require a different FAQ request.

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BrotherZael wrote:

@Diego Rossi

If what you say is true I shall acquiesce the point.

However, I was under the distinct impression that

"A character can go without water for 1 day plus a number of hours equal to his Constitution score. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each hour (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Characters that take an amount of nonlethal damage equal to their total hit points begin to take lethal damage instead."

Which means not immediate death, thus being lethal damage without instantly killing the monster and thus is subject to regen.

HOWEVER!
"When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates."

So in the case of suffocation the creature bypass the concept of damage and instead is dealt (theoretically) pure constitution damage, kind of. In this case, as you said yourself, regen wouldn't apply.

So I guess the final answer is it can't die from starvation or thirst, but it can die from suffocation.

That why I wrote:

"The last level of damage dealt by suffocation is death. A creature can't regenerate back from that and is dead."
I can't claim the same thing for thirst or starvation.
it would be logic that at some point a creature would die by thirst or starvation even if it make all its saves, but there is not a rule supporting that.

After all we know some kind of creatures in RL that can stay in hibernation for decades, centuries or even millennia (viruses mostly).

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SlimGauge wrote:

I believe Fuzzy Wuzzy and Bill Dunn to be RAI correct.

A preferred wording might have been "any extra or bonus attacks"
My original reading was akin to an implied oxford comma
"any bonus, or extra attacks".

Just for a laugh:

BAB = Base Attack Bonus

If Whirlwind Attack were to remove every bonus it would remove the BAB and the characteristic bonus.
Several attacks with a +0 to each dice rolled. What everyone want.
:)

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CBDunkerson wrote:

I'm right handed. My left hand is my off hand.

Not for Pathfinder. You can switch your off hand as you wish (within the limit of the limbs that you can use to attack). It can be your right foot, your left hand or your left shoulder.

All could count as off hand if you are attacking with your right hand.

Next round you can choose your left hand as your primary hand and use either of your feet or knees, your right hand or right shoulder as your "off hand".

It has nothing to do with you being right or left handed or your hands.

You can even choose to attack with your knee as your primary hand (if you have Improved Unarmed Strike) and use the armor spikes on your right shoulder as a off hand weapon.

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Angrimbor wrote:
Freelance writer does not mean amateur, it means not permanently employed. E.g., they pay him by the piece to write, he's not on retainer.

Search a bit the forum about errors in modules. Blatant errors like potions of personal use spells.

Freelance in no way is a guarantee about rule knowledge.

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Rory wrote:

Does an Invulnerable Rager (barbarian archetype) damage reduction (EX ability) go away if subject to a polymorph spell?

Does an Abyssal bloodline (sorcerer) claws (SU ability to grow claws that last 1 round) and Demon Resistance (EX ability that gives electricity damage resistance and a save vs. point effects) go away if subject to a polymorph spell?

Does a Draconic bloodline (sorcerer) Dragon Resistances (EX ability that gives energy resistance and a natural armor bonus) go away if subject to a polymorph spell?

I would saynone of those go away as they are class abilities, so not dependent on "your original form". they depend on your class.

When you get the class ability it don't matter if you are a human, dwarf, asimaar or half dragon. You get it.
I don't think you should lose because you change your form.
It can become irrelevant (as an example different kinds of claws don't stack normally) ut it shouldn't be lost when you polymorph.

Some other GM can feel differently, so expect table variation. consult your GM.

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Mairn wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:

Depends if this part of the polymorph section:

Quote:
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form

would apply, or whether:

Quote:

Change Shape (Su)

A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume the appearance of a specific creature or type of creature (usually a humanoid), but retains most of its own physical qualities.

overrides that portion of the polymorph description.

Not sure myself.

No, it don't override the polymorph description, look the SQ:

PRD wrote:


SQ change shape (humanoid or giant, alter self or giant form I)

It say exactly in what it can change and under what rules. He applies the rules that applies to the cited spells. So the whole polymorph paragraph of the magic chapter.

The specific description of change shape (retains its own qualities) overrides the general rules of polymorph (loses its own qualities). Thats how the rules of Pathfinder work.

+

Read the ability description:

PRD wrote:

Change Shape (Su) A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume the appearance of a specific creature or type of creature (usually a humanoid), but retains most of its own physical qualities. A creature cannot change shape to a form more than one size category smaller or larger than its original form. This ability functions as a polymorph spell, the type of which is listed in the creature's description, but the creature does not adjust its ability scores (although it gains any other abilities of the creature it mimics). Unless otherwise stated, it can remain in an alternate form indefinitely. Some creatures, such as lycanthropes, can transform into unique forms with special modifiers and abilities. These creatures do adjust their ability scores, as noted in their description.

Format: change shape (wolf, beast form I); Location: SQ, and in special abilities for creatures with a unique listing.

So: "functions as a polymorph spell ... but the creature does not adjust its ability scores". That is what "retains most of its own physical qualities" mean.

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_Ozy_ wrote:

Depends if this part of the polymorph section:

Quote:
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form

would apply, or whether:

Quote:

Change Shape (Su)

A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume the appearance of a specific creature or type of creature (usually a humanoid), but retains most of its own physical qualities.

overrides that portion of the polymorph description.

Not sure myself.

No, it don't override the polymorph description, look the SQ:

PRD wrote:


SQ change shape (humanoid or giant, alter self or giant form I)

It say exactly in what it can change and under what rules. He applies the rules that applies to the cited spells. So the whole polymorph paragraph of the magic chapter.

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andreww wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:

I think I could still make a case that RAW, scry & fry doesn't work with Greater Teleport. The spell works like teleport except where otherwise stated. The 'you must know the location' clause is not specifically excluded. You don't have to have seen the location, but if you haven't you need a reliable description. Scrying doesn't say it gives you a reliable description.

Teleport explicitly calls out scrying as providing sufficient information to allow you to teleport as "viewed once".

As said several times in this thread, it is not clear at all if "scrying" in the level of familiarity description refer to the spell Scrying, to the divination (scrying) class of spells and powers or to the general english meaning of scrying (there are a few ways of magically scrying an area that have little or nothing to do with the scrying sub school of magic).

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Activating a wand require a command word, spoken clearly.

If the player want to complain on the basis of some real life experience (and none of us has the perception a lot of PC and NPC have), ask them if they hear people speaking in the street when they are at home with the windows closed

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PRD wrote:
Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses.

To me it seem that she can "expend a use of an attack of opportunity" meant that the swashbuckler need to be able to make attack of opportunity, so the ability don't work if she is flat footed and unable to make attacks of opportunity.

I wouldn't allow her to make an Opportune Parry and Riposte against an opponent if she is unable to make an attack of opportunity against that opponent, but I can't say if that is RAW or not. For sure the parry roll applies all the modifiers the character would apply to an attack of opportunity, miss chance for concealment included.

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Murdock Mudeater wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
You don't need fabricate for diamond dust when you can just use a hammer.

Hammer's really aren't very good for diamond dust, unless you just want bits of diamonds flying in every direction and dents in your hammer/anvil.

For diamond dust, you are probably using the byproduct of the gem-crafting process for cutting the diamonds. It's unlikely that entire diamonds are being ground into dust, as the hardness of diamonds makes grinding them an expensive prospect (destroys tools quickly, in real life).

Diamonds can be melted down and poured into molds. The act of melting them down ruins any polishing or cuts, but you can create bigger diamonds from smaller diamonds (in real life, without magic). With magic like Fabricate, you could transform several cut gems directly into larger cut gems.

Mohs scale of mineral hardness is about what can scratch what. It is not about resisting blows.

Iron has a hardness of 4-5, quartz of 7 on that scale. Quartz can scratch iron, but if you hit a piece of quartz with a iron hammer it shatter.

"Diamonds can be melted down and poured into molds." Source for that piece of information?
Diamonds can be made artificially, but you don't take existing diamond, melt them down and poor them in a mold. The process is way more complicated.

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Aziraya Zhwan wrote:

So now with new information, I have some questions and warnings regarding the use of 3.5 material.

The main question is "Did you tell them 3.5 material was ok in advance?" If so, the player was well within his right to be a bit upset that you were telling him that he couldn't do something that you (basically) told him in advance would be ok, and you should probably stick to your word and allow the 3.5 version. If not though, I would explain to him that the game you're playing is Pathfinder, not DnD 3.5, and every source that pertains to 3.5 has zero relevancy to the rules and workings of your campaign. If you want to allow some 3.5 stuff that's perfectly fine and there are a lot of really good options in there that didn't get ported over to Pathfinder. However, make it very clear to him that if he wants to use something from 3.5 then he needs to discuss it with you beforehand. Especially as a new GM you don't want your players to just be grabbing at whatever source tickles their fancy that you then have no way to keep track of.

Yes, they're very compatible, but there will certainly be some things that simply don't mesh well between the two systems and it may become very tedious keeping track if a player is using a 3.5 version of something or the Pathfinder version of something.

The best option is "3.5 materials can be accepted, but it must be decided on a case by case basis".

3.5 had a lot of splat books and third party materials. A blanket statement is is almost guaranteed to cause problems.

And the Pathfinder version should take precedence it there is a Pathfinder version of the ability.

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Haven been busy playing PFO.

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Trimalchio wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Why did it even matter? It mattered enough to argue with your GM apparently.

In particular, it was a permanent spell, i.e. one he'd paid to acquire with permanency. If it "ends" (is effectively dispelled) by his death, than he's wasted a large amount of gold.

My go-to solution for such things is to get continuous magical items, but many GMs don't like those. My guess (though it's only a guess, as I really don't know the guy) is that this GM doesn't like the permanent magical access - something many GMs find frustrating for various reasons -, and so ruled against it persisting beyond death.

That said, it could also just be his genuine impression of how it's "supposed" to work - what makes sense to him.

Either way, there are other methods of getting stuff, and I recommend those, in general. :)

EDIT: To be clear, I recognize that you understood (and addressed) the issue of permanency, but that, I think, is the core of the reason the question mattered in the first place.

Permanency is significantly cheaper than a continuous magic item, and multiple permanency effects can be done a day as opposed to multiple days of crafting for one item (yes an item might be purchased, even a custom item if the a GM is generous, but sourcing these items is more difficult than expending spell slots and tossing diamond dust to the gods).

My guess is the player just wants a favorable ruling and doesn't care about rules, world building, balance, etc etc

That's actually not my guess, just an exercise in countering one silly argument with another silly one.

For everyone saying there are no rules for this or that, please look in the mirror and realize there are no rules for the opposite conclusion, certainly nothing explicit.

"Only" a whole paragraph that say when a spell end, with very clear conditions. None is "at the death of the target".

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Matthew Downie wrote:
Let's say I cast Enlarge Person and Dominate Person on someone and then kill him and bring him back as an undead creature. Is he still affected normally by those spells even though he is no longer a valid target for them?

Enlarge person: yes. It is the same body.

Dominate person: yes, but you are dominating the original person, not the undead you just created. They are different creatures.

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CampinCarl9127 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

For the Nth time: you are houseruling.

Show any piece of the rules that say that you must recheck a target validity after a spell or SLA or supernatural or exceptional ability has been resolved.

Show any piece of the rules that say a spell's effects persist once there is no longer a valid target.

This is not something that is covered either way. There is nothing that says spells persist after death. There is nothing that says spells dissipate after death. There is no solid evidence on either side of the argument. If you're the GM consider what is reasonable and use your best judgement, or if you're the player ask your GM. Expect table variance.

Here it is:

PRD wrote:

Duration

A spell's duration entry tells you how long the magical energy of the spell lasts.

Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.

Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting.

Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.

Concentration: The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you're maintaining one, causing the spell to end. See concentration.

You can't cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Some spells last for a short time after you cease concentrating.

Subjects, Effects, and Areas: If the spell affects creatures directly, the result travels with the subjects for the spell's duration. If the spell creates an effect, the effect lasts for the duration. The effect might move or remain still. Such an effect can be destroyed prior to when its duration ends. If the spell affects an area, then the spell stays with that area for its duration.

Creatures become subject to the spell when they enter the area and are no longer subject to it when they leave.

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

Discharge: Occasionally a spells lasts for a set duration or until triggered or discharged.

(D) Dismissible: If the duration line ends with "(D)," you can dismiss the spell at will. You must be within range of the spell's effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell's verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture. Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

A spell that depends on concentration is dismissible by its very nature, and dismissing it does not take an action, since all you have to do to end the spell is to stop concentrating on your turn.

CampinCarl9127 wrote:
The duration of a spell has nothing to do with conditions that eliminate spells.
CampinCarl9127 wrote:
*Sigh* this is my point. There is not evidence on either side. Each side is trying to put burden of proof on the other, and there is no proof on either side. This is a rules argument where the rules are ambiguous. You cannot win by saying "If you can't produce rules that prove your point, then I am correct". That is a logical fallacy.

False, read what I cited above.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For the Nth time: you are houseruling.

Show any piece of the rules that say that you must recheck a target validity after a spell or SLA or supernatural or exceptional ability has been resolved.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Torbyne wrote:
I wonder if the lack of a blog is more due to the PDT being baffled by our collective difficulties in understanding it or perhaps they themselves dont agree on where the limits should be.

The latter probably. And asking themselves how many things the reply will affect.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:

The rules don't often make sense. They are there for game balance.

The rule only says that you can not end movement in an occupied square.
It does not automatically let you know that someone is there.

Can a GM assume that the character bumped into the invisible creature and could not stay there? Sure

A GM could also say you don't know the creature is there and you progress is halted "because the book said so".

If one wants claim auto-detection of a creature they need to provide some rules. Otherwise stand an FAQ because right now, as far as the rules go, nothing is supporting it.

By rule the character know that there is something in the square that made impossible for him to enter it.

He don't know what or who it is, but he can attack the square.

By rules you don't need to know that there is someone/thing in a square, you can attack blindly, hoping for the best.

Combine the two and you get "there is some kind of obstacle in this square, I take a swipe at it."
It is not "auto-detection" of someone invisible.

wraithstrike wrote:


Some are saying that an invisible creature in this occupied square is automatically detected.

The other side is saying that you have to stop in the last legal square, but you don't automatically know that a creature is the reason why.

Not what they are saying Wraith. They are saying that you know that there is a invisible obstacle. You don't know if it is a dragon paw, a invisible wall, a invisible character or some other thing.

you can guess, but you don't know.

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