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Kaleb Hesse

"Devil's Advocate"'s page

1,416 posts. Pathfinder Society character for Beckett.


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Shadow Lodge

zergtitan wrote:
Would love to see feats, items, and player options for eagle knight PCs.

Sadly, I did notice that the summary does not include something like: "and plenty of Feats/Archetypes/Player Options to help play a champion of Andoran/Eagle Knight", so I'm more inclined to think its just a fluff and DM book.

Shadow Lodge ***

Item Creation Feats, including Scribe Scroll, are not allowed in PFS. All magic items simply spring into existence randomly, (not kidding) or are occasionally unique oddities. Said Wizard NPC likewise does not have Scribe Scroll, so can not just make a scroll for you. Being a new, uncommon spell doesn't change that.

PFS limits what you can buy, or rather what is available to be bought, though it is notably a very artificial way. In Core, as far as I understand it, those spells simply do not exist to your character until that character finds them. Its pretty clear for Wizards how that works. Not so much for everyone else.

As to the Spellbook on Chronicle Sheets, Absolutely Not!!! Its only good for about 3 classes, 1 in Core, and that is something that should be written in when it applies, and signed off. Plenty of scenarios have multiple spellbooks, too much possibility for error, and not to mention APs/Modules, and I need my extra room for trophies and other notes.

Shadow Lodge

Personally, I would much rather keep the AC as a more undefined antagonistic organization as possible, so I would rather not have a book that details them more than they already are.

Shadow Lodge

I think it might be better to say something like " If a creature with a space larger than 5ft is targeted by an area affect and the area is equal to or smaller than their space, the area of the affect radiates to reach 5ft beyond their space on all sides, unless it would normally extend beyond that point."

This wouldn't give larger creatures such a huge advantage with area spells and effects, but would allow them to still affect a small area around them.

It would also be much less wonky with Huge and larger creatures where the grid intersection which is the point of origin would not be the middle square(s).

Shadow Lodge ***

Paul Trani wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:

I was actually trying to ask two separate questions that as far as I can tell, the Blog does not cover.

1.) can a non-wizard purchase something on the spot that they find, but is not listed on the Chronicle sheet and use that to add that spell to their list?

2.) can a non-wizard purchase scrolls that are listed on a Chronicle Sheet any time after that session, to add it to their spell list?

Again, the answers to your questions are:

1.) No
2.) Yes

I was looking for an official clarification. I'm not sure if your response is speculation, inside knowledge that hasn't been released, answered in some random other thread, your personal preference, or what, but it's not clear in this blog.

Shadow Lodge ***

Yes, but the for the second boon, it does specify it needs to be done at the end of the scenario. It's unclear if it is just that one portion or the entirety.

Shadow Lodge ***

I was actually trying to ask two separate questions that as far as I can tell, the Blog does not cover.

1.) can a non-wizard purchase something on the spot that they find, but is not listed on the Chronicle sheet and use that to add that spell to their list?

2.) can a non-wizard purchase scrolls that are listed on a Chronicle Sheet any time after that session, to add it to their spell list?

Shadow Lodge ***

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:

Im a little confused, too.

Lets say a Druid finds a scroll in a game, but it is NOT on the Chronicle sheet. Can they buy it, at value, and then add it to their effective list?

If instead they find a scroll that IS on the Chronicle sheet. Can they later, (games later), purchase it and add it to their list?

Andrew Christian wrote:
If it isn't on the chronicle, they can't buy it later.

Assuming that your response was aimed at me, that doesn't help at all, or even pertain to what was asked.


Shadow Lodge ***

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Im a little confused, too.

Lets say a Druid finds a scroll in a game, but it is NOT on the Chronicle sheet. Can they buy it, at value, and then add it to their effective list?

If instead they find a scroll that IS on the Chronicle sheet. Can they later, (games later), purchase it and add it to their list?

Shadow Lodge ***

Jesse Davis wrote:

PBPGAMEDAY.COM seems to working right now - I think it was a godaddy issue that resolved.

I am only up to session .... 73-ish - will finish the rest Monday evening.

You can actually see what is reported here:

I noticed that I have a game listed twice. #138 & 139 should only be one session, when you get to it. I'm not sure how that happened. It was a game I took over from DM Kim.

Shadow Lodge ***

Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath
Burst of Radiance
Sacred Summons + Lantern Archon <pew pew>
Mendev Priest/Crusader Archetype
Inner Sea Gods
Champions/Faiths of Purity
All the Hero Labs data I purchased. . .
The Monster Summoner Handbook (see #4)
Furious Focus
Angelic Wings
Liberating/Murderous Command
Growth Domain
Masterwork Backpack
Mess Kit
Masterwork Survival Kit
Midwife Kit
Swarm Suite
Hot Weather Outfit
Ioun Torch
Various 200-800gp Ioun Stones of +1 Skill
Alkili Flask
Unique "priest" spells, lists, Feats, and Traits
Hollow Pommel
Holy Symbol Tattoo!!!!!!!!
Agile Breastplate
Mountain Pattern/Four-Mirror Armor
Enhanced Diplomacy
Lore Warden Fighter

Shadow Lodge

Oh, absolutely. I think that's my main issue with almost all of these Player's Guides, is just how lacking they are.

Shadow Lodge

Assimar have a really nifty Favored Class bonus that helps keep maximized Channel Energy relevant, though I should point out that there may not be as much undead as you'd expect.

My understanding is that the AP significantly changes after part one, so don't use early play as a guide on what to build towards.

But, keep in mind that Channeling, even maxed out, just doesn't keep up well at all, for either healing or harming.

The Evangilist Archetype might be worth looking into, especially early on.

I highly recommend talking with the other players, especially the Rogue and Sorcerer, and dividing up your Knowledge skills to work best. You take History & Religion, Sorcerer takes Arcana, Nature, and one or two others, and the Rogue takes what's left (or something like that).

Dividing between Diplomacy, Heal, History, Religion, and Sense Motive, (and hopefully Perception) should have you spread pretty thin on skills, which kind of sucks for the Cleric that kind of needs more points to do their basic job description.

Most of the Campaign Traits, in my opinion, where very bad, so hopefully your DM is giving you a free one that has to be one of those, but if not, oh well.

Affable might be a great option. Blessed Touch, Birthmark, Exalted of the Society, and Fey Fondling are my goto Cleric Traits.

If you do go with Iomedae, Chosen of Iomedae and Divine Warrior can work pretty well for a +1 free damage plus always useful Light source, though you might need Extra Traits Feat.

Shadow Lodge

I'd say the Affable Trait and high Diplomacy and Sense Motive.

There are also a few Feats and Traits out there that help in allowing you to deal Nonlethal Damage much easier, which I think would be mandatory.

A 1 or 2 level dip in Monk might also help, getting an AC bump (with a bit of mobility for no armor), you can use your fists for Nonlethal as needed, and Evasion.

It really depend I guess on what you mean. Pacifist, as in "I don't want to kill" or "I don't want to fight" or do you mean a Buffer Cleric?

In my opinion, Buffer Clerics tend to loose their steam at mid levels, when healing just doesn't keep up and other characters start getting their own permanent buffs via items. They are nice to have around, but as an extra. They are too reactive. But that also depends on your group.

Summon Good Monster would be a good extra Feat to consider, as might some of the newer Familiar Feats, which could allow you to stay back and send your pet in for long distance healing (3 Feat investment). But again, it sort of depends on what exactly you mean and want for a Pacifist.

I'd actually suggest against Sanctuary. It's far too inconsistent, and in my opinion, sort of trap spell. On the other hand, Shield Other should be a high priority, just make sure that whoever you are using it on doesn't go too far, or the spell stops.

Burst of Radiance and also Sound Burst are two good spells as well, though both are also a bit blasty. But the damage is not the key part as much as the short duration Stun or Blind.

Command is another good one, especially if you can coordinate with the party to maximize it's use.

As for Domains, (and I can't remember if the Archetype limits your options or not), but Charm, Community, Defense (Milani), Glory/Heroism Healing/Restoration, Liberation, Travel, and Trickery are all worth looking at.

Shadow Lodge ***

Honestly, the more this is present, the better chance it will be noticed, and other will be aware of it. So please do not merge it.

Shadow Lodge ***

rknop wrote:
I think the point is that the Core Campaign does not modify the standard PFS campaign in any way (with two small exceptions). The standard PFS campaign will continue has it has. The Core Campaign is a new and different thing. The Core Campaign need not influence or change anything about the standard campaign or how it is run.

This is inevitably untrue, unless they plan on presenting new Core Chronicle Sheets for each and every scenario/Module out there. If not, then it's going to lead to Core Chronicle material influencing Normal PFS Chronicles to make allowances for special rewards for Core Play. I guess we will see when Core becomes 100% official (the guide is out, all questions answered)?

Shadow Lodge ***

rknop wrote:
"Companion" classes mean more things to keep track of, which I think leads players to eschew them a bit.

I'm not sure how that makes Players not use them?

rknop wrote:
As for gunslingers, I'm not sure they're as overpowered as people always say. However, lots of people also don't like guns in their fantasy, so that drives them away from that class. (I personally don't agree; Golarion is what it is, and it's different from the assumptions that came out of AD&D/1e that leads the hobby to thinking how D&D-like games are "supposed" to be.)

I'm not a fan of guns (or technology) in D&D/PF, but I think if the Gunslinger targeted normal, full AC, it wouldn't be as much of a mechanics issue. Also, keep in mind that while guns have always existed in D&D and in PF, even before PF became it's own game, actual guns hadn't been very present. They existed in this far off, unknown land, which allowed people that liked them to play there and use them and those that didn't to go on without them. Now, though, everyone and their little doggie has a freakin' gun or three, and the one small balancing factor against using guns (the price per shot) has been thrown out the window. It also doesn't help that Paizo's other fix to the DM problem was to make a terribly overpriced and highly ineffective defensive item, which sadly makes a DM's monsters even weaker just so it can be a tiny bit stronger against guns, and really doesn't apply to PFS.

Shadow Lodge

This is, I believe, now how it works based on the new ruling. Only the first Diagonal ignores the normal rule on moving diagonal, (every second square counts as double movement).

10ft Reach = 2 Diagonals
15ft Reach = 2 Diagonals
20ft Reach = 3 Diagonals
+10ft Reach = +1 Diagonal.

If it is Natural Reach, then you would threaten all squares in between. If it is not Natural Reach, that is you don't normally have Reach, but are using a Reach Weapon, it is only the normal square you threaten. If it is a combination, such as Enlarge Person (Nat Reach 10) plus a Lonspear (additional 5ft), you threaten between 10ft and 15ft feet, but only the second square diagonally wit your Longspear. If said character also had another (non-Reach Weapon attack), with that attack, they would threaten between 0ft and 10ft, and again, 2 Diagonal Squares.

Shadow Lodge ***

Alex McGuire wrote:

I believe that all PCs, regardless of class should have the same or nearly the same access to spells, even if they gain spells in different ways. Here is some suggested wording for the Guide to Organized play, specificically for the chronicle sheet items section of the Core campaign rules:

"If a player comes across a scroll of a spell found outside of the core rules that is on their spell list during an adventure, the player may purchase the scroll for the standard cost after the adventure for the purposes of gaining access to the spell. The scroll is considered expended, and a Wizard can perform the normal process of adding the spell to their spellbook, and can take 10 on the spellcraft check to do so. Clerics, Druids and Rangers can choose to prepare the spell as normal from that point on. Bards and Sorcerers can choose to add the spell as a spell known any time they gain a spell known of the appropriate level, and can retrain spells of that level into the spell on the scroll, spending the normal prestige and gold costs to do so. The GM should notate on the chronicle that the player has gained access to the spell."

Also, I think that wizards trading non-core spells back and forth is detrimental to the spirit of the Core Campaign. I think that you should only get access to a spell if you encounter it yourself. Suggested wording for the guide:

"Wizards may not copy spells that are found outside of the core rulebook from other PC wizards' spellbooks. They may still copy non-core spells from spellbooks found as treasure."

I agree. Wizards really shouldn't have any special advantage to add non-Core material, and it either needs to be disallowed entirely, or handled equally for each spellcasting class.

However, even with a ruling like this, I think divine casters would still be screwed, as Chronicle Sheets don't hand out much (if any at all) special spells on scrolls and there are no "prayer books" to be found. The base spell lists are already heavily skewed towards arcane casters, so I'd be more inclined to suggest that either any spell encountered is free game or NO Non-Core spells at all, even if it's on a chronicle sheet. Can't learn it from the book, and can't even purchase the scroll. If you find the scroll, you can use it, but only n that one scenario. The later, I think, would also stop any future issues that might come up round spells (or whatever) and unforeseen consequences down the road.

Shadow Lodge

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"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
It's unlikely, but what would be amazing is if Paizo did a sort of about face on how they normally do books like this, and basically ignore the classes that are already "wild" and instead focus on making other classes more playable in a "wild" setting.
xeose4 wrote:
my brain would explode if they did this.

In a good or bad way?

xeose4 wrote:
I really want to preorder this because I pretty much only play "wild" characters, but I'm also kind of leery. is there more wilderness than the jungle theme in this?

So, with that in mind, would you rather have a book that allows you to use more classes effectively as "wild characters" or more tools for a few existing "wild characters"?

I'd rather see, and this is just me, but I'd rather see, for example, ways to play a Cleric, Paladin, or Fighter in the wild than more Barabarian, Druid, or Ranger mechanics to help them do what they can already do.

Shadow Lodge ***

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Once I get everything fixed up for this PbP Game Day, Ill go ahead and toss out a few Core PFS PbPs and see if anyone bites.

Shadow Lodge

Or they stop making things class specific.

Shadow Lodge ***

Probably less a statement about wasting paper as much as a lack of interest in playing Core.

It's kind of what I was thinking above I think a lot of DM's will want to run Core, but less people will want to actually play it. But we will see.

Shadow Lodge

This is one of the few books I'm looking forward too, really hoping for some love for the Cleric. A way to get a Lantern Archon that's almost a pet would be amazing. A real Pew-Pew Cleric.

Shadow Lodge

MAJT69 wrote:
137ben wrote:
Now, if you are looking for something other than "more support", you'll have to specify what it is you want. Obviously, if you want something like weapons of legacy from 3.5, then 3.5 has that. But there are other things which, say, 13th age handles better despite having less support/splats.

I think I own every 3.5 book ever made. And every single one of my players refuses to touch it.

13th Age seems to be favoured among them, but I've offered to sell Pathfinder as an improved and cleaned up version of 3rd edition. I have them interested in the idea, and wore down their objections to two areas: the wealth-by-level/Xmas Tree effect, and the perceived weakness of the premade adventures (which I asked about in another thread).

Here, I just wanted to know if there was some official way to escape the WBL thing, something like automatic bonuses or similar.

So as Devil's Advocate says above, they can spend their money on a Portable Hole or Flying Carpet instead of something that gives them a dull-but-essential combat bonus.

It seems that Unchained will have Legacy Weapons or something similar to that, anyway.

Honestly, I'm not sure about Unchained, but I highly doubt it will be what you are looking for. It's ben said that it is NOT Pathfinder's Unearthed Arcana, and I don't know. The more I find out about it, (which really isn't much), the less it's what I was wanting. Similar to the Mythic thing (for Epic). However, what you might really be interested in, it's not "official" but it is a free houserule that's pretty in depth is the E6/P6 system.

The basic idea is that it takes the d20 system and limits it to 6th level(ish). E6 (Epic 6th Level) was originally done for D&D 3.5 and P6 (Epic Pathfinder 6) is just the Pathfinderized version. Because you never advance (in levels) past 6th, basically anything that is higher than a +2 doesn't exist. No one can make a +4 sword, (literally, no one can). 5th Level spells are basically nonexistent, though some can be done a rituals (of like 50 - 1 billion people). It heavily favors martial characters by design, as those are the level they are the strongest over all, but the stated intent is to make a more realistic, low-magic setting.

Shadow Lodge

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Snorb wrote:
There is also the magic item treadmill: You're going to be running into problems because you need The Stupid Six (Magic Weapon, Magic Armor, Amulet of Natural Armor, Ring of Protection, Belt of Physical Stat, Headband of Mental Stat), and you'll need to blow most of your rather arbitrarily-decided-roughly-fifteen-years-ago (!) wealth by character level on improving The Sextet of Stultissitude just to keep up with the monsters' steady improvement. (So much for setting some money aside to buy your castle stronghold, hundred score magi to guard the dump, and the hottest cleric of some quasi-evil deity to serve as your consort, I guess, but that +4 corrosive burst dragonbane/aberrationbane katana's not going to pay for itself.)

Honestly, a few simple tweeks could fix this. If you remove the rule that a cast needs to have their casting stat at a certain level to cast spells of a given level, and make DC's based on caster's HD rather than their Stat, that can remove a great deal of the "I need a Headband of ______".

Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armor are also not at all required. They are just common due to their relatively cheap prices vs other more circumstantial rings and amulets. Especially the Ring of Protection, though, it' just a far too common bonus, so to me, it's not really worth it most of the time. I'd generally rather have other things like Ring of the Sublime, Feather Fall, or even Sustenance.

Very few things can compare to the amazingness of a Magic Carpet, so I'd rather just buy some backup weapons than try to maximize one main one, and even Fighters nw get bonuses for Weapon Groups to help out.

@ the OP, something that Paizo has changed and an official rule that may help are the Spell Masterwork Transformation and the ability for anyone (not just casters) to create Magical Items. So, to a certain extent, you can already do a limited form of Weapons of Legacy, especially if you view things like +1 and +2 items as less magical and more rare/uncommon.

Shadow Lodge

Well, Pathfinder is not too unlike 3.5. It was, but not really all that true any more designed to allow for all the old 3E products to be crossed over. It's still possible, but with the amount of PF bloat, a lot of it isn't really as functional as it could be. For good or ill.

PF has changed a great deal of some of the basics of the game, and a lot of the time you really need to read into things to spot it. Some of the big ones are that Prestige Classes are not very good most of the time, and have kind of been replaced with Archetypes, which are just the 3E variant Classes, or older edition Class Kits. They have the strength that they allow a class to better fit a concept from early on, but they also have the weakness that they are specific to a single class and start to step on other's toes, especially kind of ruining Prestige Classes.

Pathfinder tends to have a sweep it under the rug/band aid policy for a lot of rules issues, not really wanting to give definitive answers so that individual groups can rule on things as they want to.

The Skills system has been altered, both good and bad. It's simpler, but also a little bit less customizable at the lower levels where you kind of need it for classes with less skill points and Class Skills.

The wealth by level and Christmas Tree effect is still very present, but it also depends on hat exactly you mean. Having certain specific items is not required to play like it as in 4E, and in PF there are a lot of extra ways to make do, from the extra class features most classes and races get, to consumables. On the other hand, buying better gear is a part of the game.

For me, and I'm not really a fan of the setting at all, I think that 3.5 was a better overall game, more balanced and more customizable. I prefer WotC's Errata/Faq system to Paizo's, and in general I like the 3.5 system over the Pathfinder one. But, it's not too different, and Pathfinder has done some really good things. So I don't at all mean this to bash Pathfinder, just giving my honest point of view.

There are a few really important selling points for Pathfinder, though.
1.) Most of the Core Material is online for Free, HERE
2.) Buying a few of the Main PDF's is pretty cheap. The Core Book, Adv Player's Guide, and Bestiary 1, all you need to really play, are $30 (US), less then a single hardcover book for most games.
3.) You can still import a lot of 3.5 material wit a bit of work.
4.) It is a current product that is still being actively supported. This one kind of depends on just how you normally play. In a home group setting, this isn't that important. If you want to play at Cons or game stores or whatever, though, it's much easier to find a PF group than it is a 3E group.

I'm sure others might be able to point a few things out I've missed, too. I'd suggest, as a first step, just looking through the PRD and seeing what you think. If you are interested, and your group is at least willing to give it a try, pick up the Core book and APG, and give is a shot a few times. From there, I'd start looking at the Bestiaries, (which are much easier to try first and use from the online page).

Shadow Lodge

Personally, I find that Cavaliers make particularly terrible knights, but it really depends on exactly what you mean by knight. Cavaliers are good at mounted warrior, but not terribly effective outside of that. Not terrible, just not better enough to make it worthwhile, in my opinion.

A Fighter with a decent Cha tends to do a better job, if they can take a Trait or two for Diplomacy+. Heavy armor mobility I find better than most Mounted Combat perks combined, just because the Cavalier's mounted specialty is not particularly a common circumstance for many fights.

Shadow Lodge

A Cleric can make a really good knight as well. That's actually what the class was partially based on, the holy warrior.

Shadow Lodge

Jeff Merola wrote:
You've missed the several scenarios where having a low Swim score can very easily get you killed, then.

Several might be exaggerating a tad, but I've seen maybe 2 or 3, and even then, it wasn't something a character that knew they couldn't swim couldn't avoid relatively easily.

The only two I can think of that it is even an honest threat are a single part of Song of the Sea witch and a particular part of The Hydra's Fang Incident (where listed tactics specifically say they attempt to push characters in the water).

Shadow Lodge

Mark Seifter wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:

1.) Does the Sacred Fist Warpriest Archetype retain it's Monk-like abilities when wearing Armor? Specifically the Flurry of Blows ability?

2.) What does the Ecclesitheurge Cleric Archetype's "Blessing of the Faithful" ability do?

3.) Can the Shield Champion Brawler Archetype use Shields as weapons proficiently?

4.) What does the Feat Undersize Mount actually do? There is no rule in Pathfinder requiring a mount to be one or more size categories larger than the rider, and the Feat does not increase the mount's carrying capacity nor does it allow for classes that get a special Mount to choose a different option, so it seems to do nothing at all.

All previously-mentioned questions, including these, were considered for the errata. The three PDT posts that happened already are the ones we're posting about today.

Ah, I took that as an invitation and didn't realize that some had been hinted at. Please keep it up.

...but he treats his warpriest level as his base attack bonus for the purpose of qualifying for these feats

“The animal companion can use skirmisher tricks when commanded, a number of times per day equal to half its hit dice plus its Wisdom modifier.”

The wielder of a weapon enhanced by this raging song counts as if she is under the affect of an inspired rage raging song for all purposes involving the skald’s rage powers.

Shadow Lodge

Mark Seifter wrote:
Since we met and discussed these already, the rest of the team agreed that it would be OK if I gave spoilers for some of the most asked.

1.) Does the Sacred Fist Warpriest Archetype retain it's Monk-like abilities when wearing Armor? Specifically the Flurry of Blows ability?

ACG wrote:
Flurry of Blows (Ex): At 1st level, a sacred fist can make a flurry of blows attack as a full-attack action. This ability works like the monk ability of the same name. This ability replaces sacred weapon.

2.) What does the Ecclesitheurge Cleric Archetype's "Blessing of the Faithful" ability do?

ACG wrote:
Ecclesitheurge’s Vow: At 1st level, an ecclesitheurge makes a vow to his deity to be protected solely by his faith, not by armor or shields. An ecclesitheurge who wears prohibited armor or uses a prohibited shield is unable to use his blessing of the faithful ability, use cleric domain powers, or cast cleric spells.

3.) Can the Shield Champion Brawler Archetype use Shields as weapons proficiently?

ACG wrote:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A shield champion is proficient with all simple weapons. She is also proficient with light armor, and with bucklers, light shields, and heavy shields. This replaces the brawler’s weapon and armor proficiencies.

4.) What does the Feat Undersize Mount actually do? There is no rule in Pathfinder requiring a mount to be one or more size categories larger than the rider, and the Feat does not increase the mount's carrying capacity nor does it allow for classes that get a special Mount to choose a different option, so it seems to do nothing at all.

ACG wrote:

Undersized Mount (Combat)

You’ve learned techniques that allow you to ride beasts of smaller sizes than normal.
Prerequisite: Ride 1 rank.
Benefit: You can ride creatures of your size category, although encumbrance or other factors might limit how you can use this ability.
Normal: Typically a mount suited for you is at least one size category larger than you.

Shadow Lodge

Actually, no, you do not have to be smaller than your mount. Like others have said, it was true in 3.0/3.5, but it doesn't exist in PF. It was pointed out when the above Feat fist came out.

Essentially the Fat doesn't do anything. You can normally ride a mount of any size, and because the Feat doesn't A.) allow a Cavalier (who is restricted with their Mount) to ride a smaller Mount, or B.) boost a smaller Mounts Str/Carrying Capacity, it really doesn't do a dang thing.

Except for the Cavalier, all you really need is Muleback Cords.

Shadow Lodge

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Yes. It would, (depending on the creature), be a DC 15 or DC 20.
10 + 5 or 15 + 5 for being slippery, but having handholds, and possibly even a place to stand.

It would draw at least 2 AoO's, one for moving into the threatened square and another for moving through multiple squares, as it's likely going to take multiple actions and you are moving at 1/4th speed, (or 1/2 if you want to take a -5 to Climb).

You loose your Dex, and are restricted to a single, one handed or smaller weapon. Every hit you take is a penalty on your Climb Check.

You can attempt an Acrobatics check as well, but it's going to be tough, as is Grappling. You can also use a rope/lasso to make it easier.

Shadow Lodge

Well, to be honest, neither does strict adherence to lack of imagination. Is there any logical reason that a person that's a master of the hand crossbow couldn't shove one into the other arm armpit, reload the other, then swap? Or use a few fingers of the one hand to pull back/wench the string, drop a bolt in, and then repeat?

A spell caster can swap a weapon to the <light> shield hand, cast a spell, crab some components, and then grab their weapon.

Shadow Lodge

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It's unlikely, but what would be amazing is if Paizo did a sort of about face on how they normally do books like this, and basically ignore the classes that are already "wild" and instead focus on making other classes more playable in a "wild" setting.

Shadow Lodge ***

There is the Growth Domain, but that reopens the Cleric discussion on if Domain Spells are or are not part of the individual Cleric's Spell List.

Shadow Lodge

Decimus Drake wrote:
Symbol of Mirroring could be useful for dealing with ranged enemies at range. Anyone found much use for the Bleed cantrip?

Another fantastic selection.

Shadow Lodge

Spook205 wrote:

5.) This is a second level cleric spell (who has better stuff) and 2nd level paladin spell (who needs to spend slots on better stuff).

Only way it could be worse is if it had a costly material component.

Or if your playing with a DM who doesn't bother to read it and lets things fly. :)

However, I'd actually say the Paladin might be better at this than the Cleric, or anyone else really, just for the fact that they might actually have a decent DC.

Shadow Lodge

Devilkiller wrote:
@DM Beckett - How high was the hardness which gave your party problems?

Off the top of my head, one was 10 and the other 15. In one case, though, it was severely compounded by the fact that the creature had specific weaknesses, but Hardness applied even to those, and some issues with the Tech Guide's new rules involved.

Aelryinth wrote:

Beckett, you can do that if you start introducing Magic-Immune/Spells level x.

Forcing weapon enhancements on melees, while not doing the same to spellcasters, is pretty bad. Spellcasters generally don't care about DR. Unless you start giving monsters more magic immunities to balance things out, all you are doing is making it harder for the non-casters.


I'm not sure I agree with that, as generally speaking, spellcasters have even more things to worry about from monsters than non-casters do, between energy resistance, SR, and the many ways through magic, items, racial abilities, etc. . . to be immune to spells. Also, what I'm more talking about is instead of having DR/ Magic, it returns to DR 5/+1, or DR 20/+4. (A +3 Flaming sword doesn't help, but a +4 sword does).

Scythia wrote:

DR is so worthless that it completely nerfs eidolons through the early levels.

DR is so worthless it stops TWF in its tracks.

DR is so worthless that specific feats have been developed to allow players to overcome it.

Hm, maybe it's not that worthless after all. Maybe it just seems that way compared to the highest damage melee fighting style in the entire game, and when compared to abilities designed to counter it.

Not really. For Eidolons, and moreso with most Animal Companions, it really only applies a lot of times if they focus on going for multiple attacks that deal low damage over less attacks that are stronger. Not really sure that's a bad thing.

TWF not so much. It actually rewards them a bit more than others if they play smart and diversify, making them more likely to be able to overcome DR with at least one of their weapons, than the Sword and Board or Single Weapon types who it's generally all or nothing. They both take a hit if they don't have the right tool for the job, but the TWF has a better chance of having that tool in most cases, and also tend to take less of a hit if they opt to fight at less than there max, (so just using that one weapon that works, for example).

Shadow Lodge

I'm pretty sure that they said the ACG sold out rather quickly, and it's likely that the enormous amount of corrections are what's holding it up.

Ether way though, if you get the PDF, it will be free to update when the 2n printing, and thus the corrections are ready.

Shadow Lodge ***

William Ronald wrote:
It is a good idea to make players bring resources with them. Indeed, it is required.

While that's partially true, it doesn't really help that the main issue tends not to be if the source material is available as it is the need to read it fully in the middle of the game, and likely to cross reference with other material, again, in the middle of the game. And the more and more bloat there is, the more there are various options to interact differently than was originally intended or planned for.

The other side is that, especially with books like the ACG, there is no definite answer as to how a lot of things are actually supposed to work, so reading the source is not a solution, as it's the source that's jacked up.

PFS is kind of caught between a rock and a hard place on that account, and well, should be "interesting times".

Shadow Lodge

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Zone of Truth!!! Worst spell ever.

In the best case scenario, (target fails save) it leaves you exactly where you would have been otherwise; unsure if the target is actually telling you the real truth or finding a way to lie without literally lying or telling you what they think and having it be false. Worst case, they know you are using magic that affects their mind, but are not bound in anyway to tell the truth, again, leaving you exactly where you would be had you not cast a 2nd level spell at all, minus the sense of false security this spell offers.

It either needs to be change to not offer a Save, or be a targeted buff that gives the Target a +20 (or higher) to Sense Motive or something.

Holy Smite (and similar) should probably be a lot more beefed up against Aligned Outsiders. No SR allowed, and Save only removes the status effect, not reduces damage. As it, it's pretty worthless against it's primary intended targets, and just doesn't scale well.

Death Ward was inadvertently nerfed to heck/uselessness as PF changed the way some many of the nastier Undead and Necromancy abilities work. For how little it actually does now, needs to be at least 1 target per level and probably a 10 Min/level spell.

Instant Armor is so close to being cool on many levels, but too many stipulations make it garbage. 1 Min/Level. It's a Force Armor, but it replaces your existing armor, and if you are a Cleric that's likely to cast this, that's probably an overall downgrade most of the time. Needs to either be 10 Mins/1 Hr per level or just a straight up Force Armor Bonus to AC that increases by level (+5 from 1st-5th, +6 from 6th-8th, etc. . .)

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Apocryphile wrote:

Any spells in this should really be focussed on the Bloodrager, Magus and Alchemist.

Although I'll definitely be getting this one..

Bloodrager, Cleric, Warpriest.

Shadow Lodge

I didn't mean it as negative as it may have come off as. While I don't agree with everything, Undone has done a great deal of work, and like I said, there are some really good ideas in there.

I've writer a Class Guide in the past, and so I totally get just how much it takes, not only to do the work, but put it out there for others to critique and pick apart.


Shadow Lodge

rainzax wrote:


do you then advocate for simply adding powers to an already powerful class?

While it is a powerful class, it's also a step below other powerful classes (Summoner, Druid, Wizard/Sorcerer, <Magus maybe>, dedicated archers, etc. . . ) and they get cool new shinny's all the time. So I don't really see the issue.

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I flagged it to be moved yesterday. :P

But I have to agree. I'm not sure I've ever seen a part where not a single character (much less most of them) had a Wayfinder. It is a bit pricey for what little it does, but it's also sort of a badge of office, and I can't say how many times I've pulled my cloak aside to reveal my Wayfinder for just a second to indicate discretely what I just said has a hidden meaning or the like.

As for how mandatory it is, not sure. Have not played/read the scenario, but I can say that needing to buy things just to complete a scenario isn't uncommon. I literally just spent almost 2,000 gp yesterday in Glories of the Past 2 for that same reason, and a good portion of that was wasted by the end. That's more on the top end of what I can think of required spending, but there are plenty out there where entrance fee's are needed, specific gear/bribes/items are called for, etc. . .

And while it's probably not fun for the OP, sometimes that's just the way things go. It kind of sounds like between running cold and the party refusing to make a suggested purchase (without metagaming knowing what it meant), they came to an impasse they couldn't cross. Not to be mean, but sometimes this happens. Luckily, in my experience it's not common, and I can say I have only failed one scenario. I kind of felt like there was nothing we could do, and it wasn't really due to poor player/character choices, we just couldn't get past a certain point. So I get it, but still, sometimes failure (or worse) happens.

Shadow Lodge

A lot of the issue kind of comes down to four things, so just take the guide with a grain of salt. On one hand, it is all theory craft, and all of the DPS math is just that, theory craft. It doesn't take everything into account, and it is also based on certain static assumptions. It doesn't really look at non-combat encounters at all, or versatility, but generally assumes that each build's one-trick-ponyness works most of the time and is enough to carry the class through.

Secondly, Undone did mention that his/her normal group almost never allows prebuffing, Surprise Rounds, or the party to get ambushes, which means that her/his play style(s) heavily influence the suggestions here and may not apply to anyone else's. That doesn't make it wrong or bad, but just take it with a grain of salt. As the guide is a group of suggestions, take what applies and leave what doesn't behind.

Another aspect is it's pretty clear that many of the suggestions are more intended for the later level of play rather than so much the path to those higher levels. What works really well early generally doesn't later on, and what is needed to be effective later might not be beneficial early.) Just like with the cleric, the entire paradigm really shifts after about 5th level, so just keep that in mind.

And finally, many/some of the suggestions are based on questionable rulings and interpretations. The overwhelming idea is that many of these are assumed to be in the Warpriest's favor, and also assumed as "how I say until proven otherwise". So, again, grain of salt. Eventually Paizo will get around to answering them, (in theory), but until then it is entirely up to you and your group (and in PFS the DM), to decide what is RAW/RAI/How it's going to work.

So again, take it with a grain of salt. Undone's views are not gospel. There are some good ideas in there and some others that are likely not going to work. Play styles vary.


Shadow Lodge ***

Id say either under the products page or the GM Discussion.

Something to keep in mind is a Wayfinder is only 250 for Pathfinders. I dont have the scenario, so not sure. Other than that, Id say warn/hint to the players before hand, but if no one is willing to buy one, well, just like any other case where if you do not have the right tool for the job, either find a different way or it might be a failed scenario.

Shadow Lodge

Seriously needs some Clericy goodness. Druid is already at the top, and now its stealing from the Reach Cleric build?

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