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DeusTerran's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 105 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character.


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Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
DeusTerran wrote:

as for crafting constraints 1/3rd the price in materials and an alchemy lab is all you need to make it, with a big enough wagon to hold all the barrels this gnome technically could do it in the back of a wagon.

That's a quite impressive wagon if it will hold 250,000 pounds of beer.
Just push the wagon around as the gnome crafts. The population of the gnome's resident country can leave beer kegs outside their houses to be refilled.
So instead f leaving jugs out for the milkman you leave barrels out for the beerman?

Sounds more like a plot for how the gnomes keep nearby dwarven lands placated. Every night their freshly discarded barrels turn up refilled upon their doorstep, and thoughts of war are discarded once again for a day of heavy drinking.

Orfamay Quest wrote:

Shrug. The Coors brewery in Golden, Colorado, makes something like a million gallons of beer per day, and doesn't have magical or pseudomagical abilities to aid it. I think they make something like forty million barrels of Budweiser a year, although they do that at multiple sites.

Remember that you need both materials and equipment to craft. so our hypothetical master brewer still needs vats that will hold 78 barrels worth of wort and is not going to be doing this in the back of a wagon using a household pump.

That is a massive facility with hundreds of thousands of workers, this is one person. If we go by the math of 40mill barrels a year coors puts out 109589 barrels a day. That's about 1405 times more then the gnome, but again, facility vs one person

as for crafting constraints 1/3rd the price in materials and an alchemy lab is all you need to make it, with a big enough wagon to hold all the barrels this gnome technically could do it in the back of a wagon.

Raltus wrote:
Do you not need all the materials to craft that much stout though? How much would all that cost?

It costs 1/3rd of the items total cost in raw materials to craft it. so in this case 1gp a barrel

This is specifically for craft: alchemy, and with use of the feats signature skill and master alchemist so you need to be at least level 7.

Lets say a Gnome with a +4 int mod and skill focus on craft alchemy, and all 7 levels he puts a point into said craft. Decides he wants to make some Dwarven Stout. The DC for this would be 15 (High quality item, and since alcohol is a drug it is an alchemical item) And he decides to accelerate the craft making the DC a nice 25. With a +21 on the check and a full alchemists lab the Gnome decides to take 10, making his craft check a nice 33.

This is where it gets silly.

With the first tier of Signature skill; Craft the skill-check is doubled before being multiplied by the DC. Making it a whopping 66, meaning this gnomes weekly progress is 1650. and with master alchemist any alchemical items you make are progressed by their gold values instead of their silver values.

Dwarven Stout is 1/2 a pound, meaning two servings (8cp) is a pint. You can fit 600 pints in a regular barrel (75 gallons). Translated; Dwarven Stout is worth 3gp a barrel.

Using the crafting rules by RAW and doing a single days worth of progress; you can make more then 78 barrels of Dwarven Stout in a 8 hour period. That is 5850 gallons of tasty dwarven tradition in a 8 hour period, or 731.25 gallons a hour, or 12.1875 gallons a minute.

It's not glamorous, and it's not gonna slay any dragons (unless you plan to molotov it to death) But by the entire pantheon you and every village, town, hamlet, city, and random encounter within a 600 mile radius of you will be so hammered they can't do a thing for a week.

Beast Master Cavalier wielding an earth-shaker and riding a Rhino (Based him off of Rampage from HoN) I was allowed a few 3rd party feats. I was a fairly decent wall for the party, but on the all powerful CHARGE! (with orchestral musical accompaniment) I could take out chunks. He was the most fun I had recently.

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When mythic casters have access to spells that auto slay enemies (1-3 spell combo) that the martials can also slay (when they blow their WHOLE LOAD)

They really have no right to complain

Depends on what's doing it and how.

An example would be the Magus and the Wizard. These guys can trade spells they know as long as they're capable of learning the spell (Spell list) but don't know it (Spell book). The Alchemist can steal stuff off of their books and add to his recipes, but no one can learn from his stuff.

That's RAW

Me personally, I do allow research time for expanding ones list beyond it's regular constraint (Wizard learned the spell Heal; it's SUPER EFFECTIVE!) as long as they put in both the research time (How do I cast god?) The study time (Oh! So that's what knitting muscle fiber looks like!) and finding exotic materials to aid in converting the spell over (Step 1; Holy Water. Step 2; ??? Step 3; NEW SPELL!)

The brooms and carpet can be spread out/interrupted more over the day then the helm. If you use the helm and then it gets turned off that's it for the day.

I could see a magus doing a poly transform combo on himself in a "OshitIneedtobeawallNOW" kinda deal

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Kobold Cleaver wrote:

There have been a lot of threads complaining about underpowered weapons. With the exception of the first link, I just dug those up with about five minutes of random searching. Hell, I didn't even bother wading through the many firearm threads.

Why? Why does it bother people that a sling isn't as effective as a longbow? Isn't that kind of realistic? A sling could be useful, yeah, but there's a reason the longbow was a more popular weapon for elite troops.

Why are people annoyed that a crossbow is a less heroic weapon than a composite bow, for that matter? Of course crossbows take too long to load to be a valid "hero's" weapon.

Well, the thing is, Pathfinder has a bit of a contradiction. It's not a big thing—it's not something that ruins the game by any means—but I think it's the reason these arguments keep sprouting up.

Pathfinder, much more than any D&D edition prior to it, makes the characters feel like big, damn heroes. Like many games and stories, it tells us that the important thing is that the players feel badass—and it's not exactly all wrong there. And if there's anything anime has taught us, it's that the more impractical a weapon is, the more badass it is to use. Who needs guns?! I got swordchucks!

Pathfinder starts us down this path, giving us extra feats, extra abilities, and ensuring we always have options. But it doesn't go all the way. It keeps crossbows pretty much nerfed unless you're willing to spend a bunch of feats. Nobody in their right mind uses shuriken when they can just take levels in Zen Archer and get a much better result. And don't get me started on sling staves.


My two cents is; if other weapon options had different flavors of support (as in tactics, maneuvers, and special ammo)they would get seen in a better light.

Whats the difference between a Bow and a Crossbow; range, damage, and feat support. Whats the difference between armed melee and unarmed melee? Damage and attack options. Sword and Board/other Sword you got attack, disarm, sunder, ect. Unarmed you can do all that, and grab the guys face and shove it into your knee whilst screaming LUCHA at the top of your lungs.

Lets look at slings, sure they're not the greatest damage wise, but say there was the option of delivering sunder and disarm attempts with it. And/or being able to deliver thrown splash weapons (50ft range tangle-foot bag anyone?

If everything was equal, that would defeat the purpose of options. What the other options need is a different kind of support that lets them be competitive but in a different light

K177Y C47 wrote:
oh god... this seals it... goblins are the most OP race... xD I am almost tempted to throw a bunch of goblin invunerable rager barbarians with rings of ferocious actions at my part for shinanigins sake... and take advantage of their lower than 1 cr normally xD...

Well Invulnerable to the party's melee power at least.

Sure it eats up a ring slot, but this lets you be a goblin of any class of bouncy screaming shenanigans

phantom1592 wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
So, what happens when a magically inclined member of the watch wonders about the popularity of these pastries and casts detect magic on one?

Depends... is it against the law to use magic in your baking? Quite frankly in a magical fantasy world that probably falls under the '11 secret herbs and spices' category.

My 2cp.... I don't think this ACTION is evil, so much as what he DOES with it.

Charm spells arent' inherently evil... Gathering information isn't inherently evil...

Running a massive spy ring and blackmailing innocent people? Definitely evil. Getting the password to the local thieves guild and clearing them out for the town guard?? less so.

so THAT'S why when KFC changed hands to taco bell it started to suck, they fired all the wizards!

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Robotic Construct Sorcerer? sounds like fun!

*Accessing global arcane faunt lines*
*Access granted*
*begin eldritch code line 1100101010010101010111010101100*
*scanning for pattern*
*scan complete*
*eldritch code line prepared*
*scanning for targets*
*targets found*
*executing eldritch code line*


sorry I could not resist

Morgen wrote:

Animal Companions are subject to the rules for Handle Animal for how they work in combat. There is no Aid Another trick so they simply have no way of being commanded to do such a thing.

A familiar on the other hand is much more intelligent and a sufficiently high level character can speak to them. However most familiars tend to be small enough where they have no effective reach so any kind of combat related Aid Another attempt would require them to be in an opponents square and would draw attacks of opportunity for getting in that state. A good way to get your familiar killed and not normally worth it given that most classes that have a familiar need a little +2 bonus to things like they need all their teeth pulled.

If you want something to be around assisting you, your best bet would be your allies or perhaps a cohort.

Technically not true, once the animal companion has 3 or more int, it is capable of understanding languages and gestures of people, no longer requiring most handle animal checks. Although most of the skillchecks animals that you need help with are usually ones that require hands, mostly DM call on that one.

Also, even when they only have 2 int, animal companions can still make the combat aid another action (by being distracting/harassing and such)

3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Studying hard doesn't work with the fickle dabbling so common in elven culture, a trait so quintessentially elven.

Maturity in any fashion at 25-32 is a far cry from 100+ years. Please consult the age tables.

when your maximum age is 354-750 (350+ 4 percentile) you are not in any hurry to make yourself dead by doing something wrong. Meanwhile the OLDEST a human can live is 110. You tend to live in the moment when you know your not going to live long. So a Elf raised by humans would be about as mentally mature as the humans, for he was taught and raised to be in the moment and to not really dabble to long on choices.

As for the physical maturity, I don't care how long lived elves are, if it takes longer then 40 years for them to be of breeding age then they are a doomed species.

I can't remember where I read this, or what world it was tied too (probably home brewed) But it was the one that made the most sense to me;

Elves reach physical sexual maturity at a slightly lower rate then humans (humans hitting it around 12-15 (wikipedia), while the elves hit sexual maturity at around 25-32) At this point they are no longer children, but teenagers. It is then that the elven studies of art, music, war (the weapon traits) and magic. Once ALL of these basic studies are completed (elven common knowledge) they then branch out their studies into specialized fields (classes) Because of the way they are raised for those 80 odd years they STUDY hard, mastering theory before action.

An Elf raised by humans would physically mature slower then those around him, but mentally they would be the same age, due to being taught like a human (do this, and if it works, keep doing it) versus the ways of the elf (want to do this? spend 20 hours planning EVERY POSSIBLE OUTCOME and then take the best one)

hoshi wrote:

Ok my favorite,

The T-rex riding, Order of the Sword, Beast Rider, Cavalier.

Basically this revolves around spirited charge and doing x3 on a charge and getting a butt tonne of flat bonuses to dmg.

The total dmg bonus would be:

Cavalier has, 28 strength (18 base, 2 from levels, 6 from belt): 8
Trex has 34 strength (14 base, 8 for lvl 7, 6 from levels, 6 belt): 12
Power attack: +8

Now the caviler has some nifty abilities to boost his dmg:
Challenge does an additional HD of dmg : 12
Banner with the human preferred class does: 5
Another 3 from being and order of the sword

And lets give him a magic lance of +4

So his total mod is 52, but when multiplied with his lance, each charge attack will do between 159 and 180 damage each charge.

And you also add your t-rex's attack to that.

And also if you want to rules lawyer it, you can use mounted skirmisher to make a full attack action on the charge, thus giving you an extra two attacks to bring (assuming you hit all three times) your damage possibly from 265 to 300 a turn.

Hate to rain on your parade but;

"A beast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that has a fly speed (although the GM may allow mounts with a swim speed in certain environments)."

It kinda takes the wind out of the beast riders sails (no mortal Chocobo combat)

One Handed Hafted (Hardness 5, HP 5) weapon for one handed firearms, and two handed hafted weapon (hardness 5, HP 10) for two handed firearms.

Metal barrel with a wooden casing and mechanics, guns are fragile but larger guns are much tougher then bows and slingshots and the such.

kaisc006 wrote:
Pendagast wrote:
and defender still stacks with all of it, so it will always be extra ac.
Of course it does, that's the point of the Defending special property. It's not a loophole. You're sacrificing what could be an attack bonus for an AC bonus that stacks with everything. It's a terrible tradeoff when you look at bonus gained per gp spent.

Not really a terrible tradeoff when your main goal is to not be reduced to red-mist from lucky hits.

R_Chance wrote:
CWheezy wrote:

Shouldn't you get like, a plus to hit or more range or something?

That is what being prone does generally

Primarily what it does is decrease your target profile and help you take cover as well. It's a classic move for avoiding being seen or shot. If anything your sighting distance would take a dive (unless you are on a rise) and your range (with a bow / crossbow) would go down as a result. Also make it a bear to reload compared to a standing posture. The shape of a crossbow would make a prone position more difficult than with a firearm and a bow would be a real pain although I would think you could hold it horizontally and crouch with it. With a modern firearm (or old one I suppose) you could steady your weapon, but you're still messing with your own line of sight and sighting distance. If they had put the relevant penalties into the game, the feat would have made more sense. Maybe they were something discussed but not added and the feat made it in anyway? Anyway, it makes more sense now.

*edit* I could see a decreased range but bonuses to hit with a crossbow or firearm. Not a bow though. It's not like you can rest it on the ground and use it...

I find it funny that one of the goals of 3E was to reduce the tactical complexity of combat that had grown with 2E (i.e. Players Option: Combat and Tactics; I loved that book) and it seems to have all been added back in, and more, with feats. Of course, it's more abstract and harder to visualize now too... er, that's not an advantage is it?

You can only use Crossbows and Firearms while prone (MAYBE a bow if you had a pair of arms coming out of your back) If I remember correctly, prone shooter was originally supposed to give you a +2 to ranged attack while prone, but they took the bonus out because they thought it was overpowered. Now with this change the feat needs to be renamed since well the feat involves nothing about shooting at all really. Maybe call it Hit the Deck! or something more fitting of the tactic that the feats new bonuses involve >.>

vuron wrote:

That's a pretty rules lawyer reading of the word Use. I think wielding a weapon definitely counts as use not just making an attack with the weapon.

I think you definitely need a third party feat to make this build functional.

Actually by RAW, he's right. You only lose the bucklers AC when using the hand/arm it's attached to when you attack with said arm or cast somatic spells.

He could indeed have a one handed weapon with defending on it and a buckler on the same arm, and as long as he doesn't attack with that arm he keeps the bucklers AC. As I think about it this method allows for the most effective of "shield" arms possible but you can't bash with it (even with the 3rd party feat you lose out on the shields bonuses) and this method REEKS of swiss and gouda.

I kinda hate the disparity between good and evil for the d20 system. For you to be good, your acts have to be a nice guy, be kind, and all your acts have to help people RIGHT NOW. Evil? As long as your acts benefit YOU in the end it's evil. Great example? Xanatos. He was a calculating, megalomaniac, and he was EVIL. Sure he helped here now and then, he played the good guy now and then too, but the END goal was always to his benefit.

In Pathfinder by RAW, good guys can't do anything that would be "evil" for a greater good payoff. Cause if they do, they're no longer good. An evil guy can give to charities, and help others as long as the end goal benefits him somehow. Giving to charity gets the heat of the holy order off your back, and helping others usually nets you a helping hand in return.

Also, why is it that the Neutral axis of good/evil are the strongest? Chaotic and lawful of the two you either follow some codes of conduct or do whatever it takes to achieve your goal of light or dark. But neutral? You are THE most good/evil person there is and it is your LIFE.

vuron wrote:

No Imp Shield bash with bucklers and you don't get the buckler's AC bonus when you have a weapon in the same hand.

Believe me I've tried to look for ways of THF + Buckler or TWF + Buckler but unless there is some obscure feat I don't think it's possible.

3rd party feat, Open Design

Buckler Mastery

You gain additional benefits when using a buckler.

Prerequisite: Shield Proficiency

Benefit: You can perform a shield bash with a buckler. When wielding a weapon in the same hand as your buckler, you may elect to either ignore the −1 atack penalty or gain a +1 shield bonus to AC.

Special: A buckler counts as a light weapon and has the same weapon profile as a light shield.

Another 3rd party feat that fits your theme from 4 Winds Fantasy

Two Shield Fighting (Combat)

You make a good offense out of a great defense.

Prerequisite: Shield proficiency, Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting.

Benefit: When wielding two shields, apply the shield bonus of both shields to your AC. If both shields provide an enhancement bonus to AC, apply the higher enhancement bonuses in full as the primary shield and +1 enhancement bonus for the off-hand shield.

Ilja wrote:
I've been under the impression that gunslingers eventually get far higher damage at low ranges (say <100 ft) but that archers still win out at longer ranges, as long as sane perception rules are used (if RAW perception rules are used any kind of ranged weapon is kind of useless).

Gun users have the advantage of the close range AC counter (sure i'm in the murder zone but I'm guaranteed to hit!) vs an archers range (Good luck I'm 5 rounds away!) Also (for some reason) guns can't go past range increment 5 while bows can go the full 10 (advanced firearms can also go the full 10, but everyone HATES GUNS IN THEIR FANTASUH)

Also, 15 levels of pisterelo gunslinger, 1 level of wild rager barbarian, buy 10 dual barrel pistols on weapon cords, boots of haste, clustered shots, rapid shot, hammer the gap, and all 3 TWF feats. The target in front of you just took 20 bullets to the face all as 1 source of damage.

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3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Well there is the random treasure, which may contain items more powerful than you can craft (but which won't lead to wealth being converted to all body slots being filled). There is also the hobgoblin equipment as treasure, which will be very useful for melee classes by default, ranged classes if they had archers and crossbowmen, and spellcaster loot if they had spellcasters. The default loot for "heroic" enemies with character levels can cover the upgrading bases pretty easily. See the equipment for a level 8 fighter.

I don't allow weapon, armour or wondrous item crafting and it works really well. Sometimes their foes don't give them exactly what they could use, but there is nifty stuff there, a chance to use items they have never used before, items they could not craft if they only took some of the item creation feats, or items which are great for npcs (they are close to running a kingmaker like game) or bribes. Mmmm, yes bribes. Using loot less useful to the party, which you didn't have to craft to aid negotiations and friendship.

Friendship! Friendship!

Mundane and minor magic loot from the hobgoblins is stuff that they either already have and won't use (converted to gold) stuff they can't use (converted to gold) or stuff that will be useful in a later and rare situation (most likely sold for gold at a later date) Using a magic item to bribe or negotiate is basically using the item AS gold.

Why do you hate your players by giving them vast amounts of wealth that they can't really use?

3.5 Loyalist wrote:

By allowing people to craft what they want magically, a lot is actually taken away from the game (and not just time while the party waits around for the crafters, or placers there orders so that they too are nice and safe). The +1-+5 type of items are some of the most boring items in the game, alongside the ability score boosting items, but crafting allows players to play it more safe. Don't have to worry about what is in the monster hoard, I have +2 all round! We need to get more wealth guys so we can all upgrade to +3. The holy order of crafting dullards rides again.

Potions and scrolls I concede I totally allow to be made. It is the magic item slot filling crafting I have a great and mighty beef with. A beef spanning editions and worlds. A beef stretching across threads of the paizo-sphere! Not everyone is the same though. :P

Depending on the random magic items table of monster loot is a folly that anyone once done regrets horribly. The chances of there being an item that will benefit someone of the party is about 10-15% and that's if your lucky.

Here's an example. A party of 4 (2 hander fighter, ranger focused on range, blaster/utility wizard and utility/healing druid) Their not too worried about their only melee goy not running with a shield because with the buffs and his power any threats are quickly dealt with. When they finally reach the end of the hobgoblins fort and partake of the loot, gold, art, gems, and various other rare goods. But when the magic item that's in the pile gets rolled up, they get a shield, and not just any shield an awesome large steel shield of defense.

Too bad it benefits no one of the party. It's metal so the druid can't use it, the ranger could use it in case of emergencies but it would simply collect dust on him with their party dynamic. The wizard can do dick all with it, and if the fighter uses it he loses out on a lot of the feats and archetype bonuses he has been focusing on.

Crafting can seem like a "play it safe" thing, I see it as a way taking some randomness out of the game and giving some control to the players when they actually go out of the way to do it.

Ashiel wrote:

Ashiel's Pointy Hat Trick
Well have you ever wondered why wizards are known to wear pointy "steeple hats"? I'm sure you've noticed that great wizards such as Merlin, Albus Dumbledore, and Gandalf the Grey wear pointy hats. Witches are also famous for their pointy hats. Even divine casters are known to wear pointy hats.

Now some people might wonder, why exactly do all these spellcasters wear pointy hats? Some might go so far as to say they look downright silly. If it were a simple fashion trend, why does the use of the pointy hat extend across seemingly unrelated magical traditions? The answer is because it's really practical, and is a first line of defense against those who would rob them of their magics.

You see, they are not truly hats at all. Merely tents, cones, or teepees made out of various materials with a shrink object spell cast on them. Shrink object lasts days at a time per casting and can even be made permanent. Shrunken objects can even be made to appear as cloth, as per the spell. These objects are then worn as a hat.

You see, antimagic field is an emanation effect. In simple terms, it works...

this, just this makes me want a pointy hat on all my casters, even my wildshape druid


The Pathfinder PRD wrote:

Selling Treasure

In general, a character can sell something for half its listed price, including weapons, armor, gear, and magic items. This also includes character-created items.

Trade goods are the exception to the half-price rule. A trade good, in this sense, is a valuable good that can be easily exchanged almost as if it were cash itself.

Note those first two magical words, In General. As in, most of the time, commonly occurring, the norm but not the be all.

Another way to actually MAKE money via crafting by RAW is make items via commission. Find someone that wants the item made, find out their stats (class alignment and skills) and then CUT CORNERS! use all those cost reducers you can to drive the crafting cost down, then sell it for half BASE (listed) price. The NPC is happy with an item that is MADE for them, and you profit by RAW.

mordion wrote:

If a druid with a horse animal companion takes a level of cavalier, does he have one animal companion at his character level, or two at his druid level and cavalier level respectively?

I know this has been discussed before, I'm not aware of any official response and James Jacob's response surprised me. Has there been any official response or developer comment on this?

A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, using the cavalier’s level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts.

You only ever have one total for "Effective Druid Level" when it comes to classes with animal companion features. It's been argued that each instance of Animal companion should be kept separate (but then that kind of defeats the purpose of the beast-master ranger archetype)

It's more of a GM call really, but why take the druid levels when you can swap out your mount as a cavalier and/or samurai at later levels? Heck there's even the Beast Master Cavalier archetype that broadens your mount selection even further by allowing medium animals (like bears) to become large for riding.

LazarX wrote:

In ordered answers to your question:


And since Fabricate is an instantaneous effect, you can't take 10 (or 20) on the Craft (or other) check.

I was wrong on the buff, my fault. I could argue that they could in fact take 10, but "distraction" is a person to person basis really so no point in that one.

Also, casting time for fabricate is 1 full round per 10 cubic feet (and in since this is a mineral conversion, only 1 cubic foot per level can be converted) of material. so NOT instantaneous

LazarX wrote:
Roberta Yang wrote:
Unless you're a ninth-level Wizard, in which case Fabricate can do it in six seconds.
Very few wizards however will master the Craft Arms/Armor skill sufficiently enough to make "the appropriate DC" check as mandated by the spell. said appropriate DC pretty much being up to the DM. For those who think Fabricate is an unlimited way to make stuff wizard players do need to remember that all craft skills are separate investments. And may require other skill checks as well such as Engineering for truly major constructions.

Aren't there some wizard spells/divine wand-able spells that give you a plus 10 or more once on a skill-check? and since your crafting in a town with no distractions you can simply take 10? and with wizard mental stats usually being stacked the bonuses he'd have a fair bonus.

So yeah another thing wizards are broken OP about is mundane crafting now!

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Scariest monster? Anything that uses tactics to it's advantage.

Tuckers Kobolds man

XP is rewarded based off of the CR (Challenge Rating) of the "Encounter" challenge rating can easily be placed on "encounters" of the non-combat type as well. (based off of how hard it would be for the PC's to do so)

Besides you people that run into dungeons to meat-grind those poor creatures are monsters, you only need to win the encounter to get XP, diplomacy, chasing them off, and so on are other viable ways to "win" a "encounter"

Easiest way to fix crafting. Remove step one, and replace all instances of SP with GP. Grats crafting now makes much more sense

Then here's a question, with the item crafting feat (pathfinder accessory) You can make magic item tattoo's for the same slots as regular magic items (effectively doubling you magic items worn)

The question is; does the players body (base ac 10) count as armor? and if so what type? Cause if it could count as light armor magical brawling tattoos for all the monks.

Ilja wrote:

Approved by whom? In all threads I can find, the majority agrees it's (SP+HP) or (Alternate), some say it's ambigous and a precious few say it's "pick two of the bonuses you can get". And no thread I've found has developer input.

This thread has 32 FAQ requests, no dev input, and people saying there's been no dev input up til then. And it's less than a month old.

My google fu is failing me at the moment, and the site is quite active so the search is slow, i'll find the page in a bit for now but let me break it down for you.

Fast learning gives you the choice of: Replacing your +1 sp or +1 hp with +1 sp AND +1 hp. OR instead of REPLACING your chosen bonus with the combo'd bonus, you can gain an alternate class bonus. Meaning a Human fighter without Racial heritage but having Fast leaner can do:
+1 sp and favored class
+1 hp and favored class
+1 hp and +1 sp

when you add racial heritage to the math, you now can add this to the list
favored class (human) and favored class (racial heritage race). I'll be back once I find the pages, but with how my browser is being it could take some time.

Ilja wrote:

No, look at the text:

Benefit: When you gain a level in a favored class, you gain both +1 hit point and +1 skill rank instead of choosing either one or the other benefit or you can choose an alternate class reward.

So you can choose one of the following:
- Gain one skill point and one hit point
- Get an alternate class reward

Basically it melds together the sp/hp choice into a sp+hp option.

Favored class bonus is an alternate class reward, Fast Learning isn't stopping you from taking the the initial favored class bonus. This is why it works so well with racial heritage since you now count as two races, you can take the racial favored class bonus of one race (Human) then with Fast Learning take the racial favored class bonus (whatever race you chose with Racial Heritage)

Roberta Yang wrote:

No, you can't. All Fast Learner does is provide the option of (+1 hit point AND +1 skill point). If you take a racial alternate favored class bonus, that single favored class bonus is the only one you get. The feat goes out of its way to explicitly state that taking an alternate favored class reward doesn't work with the feat's benefits - you get your bonus hit point / skill rank, or you take an alternate reward and get nothing from Fast Learner at all.

There's a reason we aren't all running Fast Learning Human Sorcerers with Gillmen Heritage.

Yes, you can. It's been brought up and approved SEVERAL times on the rules board, most people don't do it because it's a 2 feat dip to do it.

Ilja wrote:
No, as noted you can only take either hp+skill or race/classpecific FC bonus. Can't take skill+spell for a human sorcerer, for example.

Okay, example time Human fighter with racial heritage (Dwarf) and fast learning. I can take BOTH the human fighter favored class bonus (+1 CMD to 2 maneuvers of choice) AND the Dwarf Fighter Fighter favored class bonus (+1 CMD against bullrush and trip)

They ARE overpowered, in the sense that a druid is the easiest swift army knife of the classes. They can't do everything perfectly, but they can do everything. Heal, buff, utility, revive(if it's in the game) damage dealing, distraction, skill-monkey (if you build it right, this can be a literal term)

There is very little a druid CAN'T do, thus their power in comparison to other classes

Roberta Yang wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
The thought of taking both Fast Learner and Toughness didn't flash through your synapses?

Certainly, you can take both. But I've never seen anyone who has, and it's hard to imagine under what circumstances one would be that desperate for both hit points and skill points simultaneously.

Fast Learner is also a prereq for a couple of other mediocre feats I've never seen anyone use.

Human 2 feat dump of Fast Learner and Racial Heritage, I can have the racial favored class bonus of Human and the racial heritage I chose.

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
*Face palm*

Okay, let me break it down for you.

Declare Charge, choose my target, move to him and have not used my full movement OF the charge, declare overrun as I hit him, do the standard attacks of the charge. roll for overrun and if successful keep going. mechanically works AND gives the thematic of charging RIGHT THROUGH someone (if the target chose to step aside of the overrun (and you don't have trample) they tried to get out of the way and partially failed, but managed to not be brought underfoot)

Elephant stomp adds to that by the mount stopping right on top of the guy and hitting him again instead of running his ass over, while trample IS you running his ass over and stepping on him.

Then again now that I think about it, elephant stomp may have been a feat designed for the mammoth rider prestige class.

StreamOfTheSky wrote:

If you're using Overrun, you don't get your normal melee attack.

So, "I declare mounted charge and overrun, I hit the target with my weapon and my mount hits with it's natural weapon" doesn't happen. One of you two is *not* hitting with your weapon for damage.

** spoiler omitted **

You don't get the Overrun AND the charge attack.

where in that does it say I CAN'T hit the target? as RAW I can do charge attack damage AND Overrun

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
How is Elephant Stomp helping here? Seriously, explain it. ES requires forgoing every benefit of the overrun, both the knocking prone and the moving through the victim's space. And it requires you yourself to be the one that made the overrun attempt. I'm guessing you mean in tandem with the Trample feat.

I declare mounted charge and overrun, I hit the target with my weapon and my mount hits with it's natural weapon, if I beat the overrun by 5 or more I can stop and my mount can hit the guy with it's main natural weapon AGAIN at NO PENALTY.

vs Trample where your mount gets to attack with a foot for a small amount of damage with a +4 to hit and knocking the guy prone

Either way I get 3 attacks, one results with the enemy receiving a status penalty, while the other results in more damage done

As I said, it's not GOOD, but it's not BAD either. I use it all the time with my Rhino riding Cavalier

Roberta Yang wrote:

Those didn't change. You just don't get why they don't work as written in the first place.

Elephant Stomp lets you, when you pass an overrun check, stop moving and make a single attack. A standard charge lets you do exactly the same thing without requiring an overrun check. Elephant Stomp does nothing.

Monkey Lunge lets you use Lunge as a standard action. All using Lunge does is increase your range; it doesn't actually include making any attacks. But now you can't use any attacks because you spent your standard action increasing your range.

Okay after re-reading Lunge your right, Monkey lunge is a bad feat.

Elephant Stomp lets you do an extra attack when you are mounted and doing a charge (since overrun can be done as part of a charge. You attack once, your mount attacks twice if it has elephant stomp instead of once as well) at the cost of stopping the overrun. Is it good? not really, but it's still usefull

TriOmegaZero wrote:
DeusTerran wrote:
You people should read the SRD more, Monkey Lunge and Elephant stomp work now.
Uh...what changed?

Elephant Stomp is an immediate action (so it's usable in a charge) and Monkey lunge spends a standard action to use lunge AS your standard action instead of spending a standard TO use lune without the -2

You people should read the SRD more, Monkey Lunge and Elephant stomp work now.

Elephant Stomp (Combat)
You deliver a crushing blow to downed enemies.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, Improved Overrun, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When you overrun an opponent and your maneuver check exceeds your opponent's CMD by 5 or more, instead of moving through your opponent's space and knocking her prone, you may stop in the space directly in front of the opponent (or the nearest adjacent space) and make one attack with an unarmed strike or a natural weapon against that opponent as an immediate action.
Normal: When your overrun maneuver check exceeds your opponent's CMD by 5 or more, you move through the target's space and she is knocked prone.
I think this fear was meant for the mount to take though, hence the unarmed/natural attacks only

Monkey Lunge (Combat)
You can quickly recover from your lunges, helping you to avoid counterattacks.
Prerequisites: Lunge, Acrobatics 1 rank.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can use the Lunge feat to increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn, without suffering a penalty to your AC. You cannot use this feat if you carry a medium or heavy load.
Normal: You take a -2 penalty to your AC until your next turn when making a lunge attack.
You spend a standard action, to get a standard action that can only be used to attack with the lunge feat and not take the -2 AC penalty

STR Ranger wrote:

My vote for worst feat ever goes to HAMMER THE GAP. Not because it doesn't do anything but because the feat promises so much.

I first saw it and was reminded of Tome of Battle's move: Girrillon Windmill Flesh Rip.
Because the feat adds extra damage based on consecutive hits.
For a TWF with some 7 odd attacks it sounded awesome.
Till you do the math realizing the word CONSECUTIVE kills the feat. You need to hit like 5 consecutive times to equal Weapon Spec.

Do the odds of 5 consecutive hits.

This is only to be taken for 20th level with a hasted, +45/45/45/40/40/35/35/30 attack routine. Before that it blows.

Improved Critical or Crit focus is sooo much better.

Hammer the gap is awesome on specific builds, Pistolero gunslinger with it and Clustered Shots is doing LOTS of massive damage in a full round.

Also, hammer the gap is one of the few forms of bonus damage you can get that is multiplied on crits.

Of all that, the only one thats most effective is the arm shot to disarm. Sure it's a Full action but being able to disarm a guy from X feet away while the party MELEE-WHALE closes is always awesome.

3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Save or suck, not spend a grit and no save. A significant difference for me.

Course there are some interesting no save spells, but they consume slots, and there are plenty of ways to get around spells.

You ARE aware that this power has about 1/5th the power of a save or suck spell, and that these do only one bullet of damage (Plus Dex if musket master) I hardly call it broken, specially since the DM is totally capable of bringing in the optional called shot rules for modifiers to this

vuron wrote:

I've never been entirely comfortable with the discount associated with PC casting as I think the actual utility related to PC crafting is the get a specific item when you want aspect.

1/2 price crafting makes gamist sense from the standpoint of incentivizing PC crafting and correlates strongly with mundane crafting generating wealth through activity but in theory almost all PC crafting is done for the direct benefit of the caster and the adventuring group and isn't normally done to generate wealth by selling to NPC.

The problem of course is that due to the nature of the crafting feats this creates a tendency towards certain crafting feats being taken (wondrous item, wands, scrolls) why other generally valuable crafting feats (armor, weaponry) tend to get neglected. This creates uneven wealth because a PC wizard will often have a lot of 1/2 price equipment whereas the PC fighter is largely dependent on the GM or NPC crafting at the higher cost.

It's something I've kinda struggled with off an on over the years but I'm not really surprised that PFS bans PC crafting for instance because it can definitely be a headache as well as a source of acrimony between Players and the GM.

the 1/2 price is in place primarily for two reasons, that's the real worth of the item (and NPC's are dicks about prices and are greedy profitmongers to PC's, I have a house-rule that PC's can haggle down to 60% with good RP and good rolls) and time. If the item was crafted at the same cost that NPC's sell at, no one would craft anything, even WITH the reduction modifiers because it would take too long.

Here's some examples; Cloak of Elvenkind (very basic wondrous item) 3 hours instead of 1 or 2 (varies from GM to GM and RAW and RAI)
Cloak of Resistance +5 is taking 25 hours instead of 12 or 13
Amulet of Mighty Fists +4 takes 80 hours instead of 40.

This is before adding cost reduction modifiers, this is also without the double-time craft action and in perfect conditions (the PC's have bought a place where the crafter can work a full 8 hours unheeded)

Even with the crafting reductions NO ONE except the extremely devoted to the idea, or the really cheesy people would craft because it would eat up way to much time.

Also, PFS has magic item crafting banned for balance, because not everyone can make the consumable magic items (potions, wands, scrolls) that are oh so useful. Yes martial classes CAN craft magic items (Master Craftsman yay) but it only works for Magic Arms and Armors and Craft Wondrous Items so that kinda pooches the martial-men, and NO ONE would play them in PFS then (Because if crafting was allowed in PFS, it would not be optimized to not craft.)


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I play fighter because you can do so many awesome martial builds with them.

Get all the trip feats, pole-arm, lots of dex and AoO's, and then combat patrol. Unless it's invisible, out of reach in the air or underground Gandalf's got NUTHIN on your YOU SHALL NOT PASS

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