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There is no reason players can't take them. Some might have abilities or powers that assume racial abilities though.
I've always thought of throwers as crossover characters that should be good in melee and at close range which isn't really the archer schtick. If you are close, you stab em, if you are far you throw a knife. If you kill someone you throw a dagger at his cousin. You build around melee and only spend one or two feats on throwing.
Gah! How did I miss stinking cloud, dimension door, and teleport... I must have been dozing off.
The point isn't that magus doesn't have a good spell list, their spell list is fairly narrow and misses key spells. Not sure what you mean by "pull away", but fear and confusion are pretty much mainstay spells. Sleep? Summon Monster?
you're either a martial or a caster--there's no middle ground.
Picking one path or the other is certainly easier.
you're CERTAINLY more powerful on the spell end for EK by way of better spell list, but when you're spending more rounds dropping these amazing end-the-encounter spells (pits, clouds, tentacles, SoDs, etc.), why even carry a sword in the first place?
Again, it's not about optimizing. If it was, just go straight wizard.
Lots of those encounter ending spells don't entirely end encounters. Instead they massively change the odds. Instead of fighting 4 bad-guys you are fighting 1-2 and rather than waste a bunch more spells, the eldritch knight can just wade in and help finish the job. Spells are a limited resource in the game, stabs are not.
Also, being able to cast magic jar and take over a fire giant and smash a bunch of other fire giants is cool. Or being able to transform into a dragon and actually kick butt like a dragon.
i still have to raise my question of how getting great spells later is a point in EK's favor--besides the obvious, naturally. they're supposed to be a combo of might+magic, but in the late game (where they pull ahead of the magus' spell progression) they're going to completely ignore melee anyway due to how much better spells are comparatively.
The way I would sum up your thought here is: "It's a better caster, but it doesn't matter." Which doesn't make any sense to me. If you feel wizards "win the game" because spells always win, you aren't playing either of these classes. When you pick one of these classes, you've already decided that you want to engage in melee and cast spells.
As for the magus being a comparable spellcaster at lower levels... maybe you should review their respective spell lists again. Casting charm person, sleep, create pit, fear, stinking cloud, confusion, dominate person, are very often vastly better options than fireball or shocking grasp. Guess who can't cast any of those? A magus can be invisible but can't see invisibility, nor can he teleport, dimension door, or stone shape; summoning even a minor ally is similarly outside his abilities. Tons of great combat spells are outside the magus's list and almost all the great utility spells are missing. There are a few levels where the magus comes close, but in general their spells are limited to evocation.
Saying one of these classes is better than the other is misleading, they are much more different than they appear at first. A magus is always going to be better at DPR, but the eldritch knight has options the magus lacks. Don't under-estimage the advantage that spell-list offers.
what is the point of having a sword if your spells will do literally everything better for you?
Being an arcane spellcaster with the option to stab is never going to be the 'optimized' route. There are going to be martial characters who can out-stab you and straight spellcasters will have more powerful spells. If there is an advantage to the Eldritch Knight it is that he is more versatile. When you've run out of spells or when magic doesn't work, you still have interesting things you can do without burning your resources.
As for magus, I don't really see them as spellcasters. The majority of spellcasting they do is to enhance their melee combat. On whole the magus is much nicer in the lower middle levels... 4-8th level, where the knight is in it's awkward transition phase. Starting around 9-10th level, the knight's casting really starts to pull ahead of the magus and never looks back. The eldritch knight is unlikely to ever match the magus in melee due to spell combat, but he can wield a great sword or falchion which the magus can't. More important, the eldritch knight gains access to spells like dragon form and earlier access and more frequent castings of things like beast shape. Plus... tons of 7-9th level spells which the magus never sees.
Edit: IMO if you never reach 10th level, you are almost certainly better off playing magus due to the bumpy transition between wizard/ fighter and eldritch knight. I really wish it were laid out where the two missed caster levels were spread apart a lot more. Or perhaps drop the requirement for all martial weapon proficiency and have them lose 1st and 5th level casting.
This is exactly the way I look at it. I don't care if the number crunching seems to indicate one class is more or less powerful than another. For me it's about fun and flavor. Play a rogue? Sure! Play an arcanist? You bet! I don't care how under powered some people believe the rogue to be, or how over powered some people think the arcanist to be. I don't give a fig about the math; I play for fun.
To be honest, my frustrations with the rogue/ monk are more about the fact that they are very tricky to master. They call this newest book the "Advanced Class Guide", but it's much easier to make a slayer or swashbuckler who is able to fill the rogue's role in combat than it is to build a good combat rogue friendly rogue.
When I see a newer player looking at the rogue or the monk, it bugs me not because I'm pretty certain they are going to struggle to get what they want out of them.
Mystically Inclined wrote:
I've never understood this sort of mentality. I honestly could care less if my character is the most powerful guy at the table. The only question I care about "Is it fun to play?"
I can understand the frustrations with the rogue and the monk because they can easily be outclassed by others doing what they are supposed to be great at and can seem like the 5th wheel in a party... the sorcerer? Maybe if you are completely horrible at picking spells. Of course if that's the case, wizard isn't going to be better.
I've never had trouble making sorcerers that are fun and effective and this isn't going to change that. Bloodlines, racial favored class bonuses, and new items have made playing sorcerers far less painful then they were when the class was just a few known spells you could spam over and over.
For me, the arcanist will likely replace any future wizard characters I might make. I've always hated the spell prepared/ burned mechanic; the mechanic the arcanist uses is just much more natural to me.
Seems to me this post is more about a disconnect between your expectations of the game and treatment of monstrous creatures and that of your GM and fellow players.
It's very hard to play a redemption focused character when everyone else in the group is focused on killing everything you encounter. It's particularly difficult when the GM is running goblins and many enemies as irrevocably evil. I've run much of Rise of the Runelords and while playing the paladin redeemer type could make for a very fun adventure, this particular AP is only going to get more and more confounding to you unless you iron this out.
I'm not trying to criticize your character choice here, but without some kind of buy-in from the GM and from the other players in your group, this is going to be a frustrating, uphill battle for you.
To be clear here:
Redeemer type characters are a blast, nothing wrong with them.
Trying to play such a character when the rest of your group and GM are determined to run a classic hack & slash game is a huge challenge.
Some Other Guy wrote:
I think we're all on the same page here, just phrasing it slightly differently. I also think most people of us feel an FAQ would be good to help clear this up.
As an aside, there is another roadblock to pearls working with consume spell. Pearls of power explicitly restore spells "prepared and then cast". Even if you assume the pearls work with the arcanists normal casting, consumed spells are never cast.
Mystically Inclined wrote:
If people are saying that the Arcanist is just barely under the Wizard, and that the class has a "eh... some will take em, some won't" feel to it, then I think Paizo nailed things perfectly.
This is more or less my impression also. It has some neat non-casty abilities and it's casting is super versatile, but that's offset by lower spells/ day and slower spell progression.
Well... from Pearl of Power:
Once per day on command, a pearl of power enables the possessor to recall any one spell that she had prepared and then cast that day. The spell is then prepared again, just as if it had not been cast.
For an arcanist, preparing a spell only puts it into her memory so she can cast it from the book, there are two pieces here: "While studying, the arcanist decides what spells to prepare and refreshes her available spell slots for the day." The memorizing and spell slots are separate.
Sounds to me like the slots per day are independent of preparing spells and the pearl of power would not work. (But things like rhinestones of power would)
Guy St-Amant wrote:
I don't follow your thinking here. There are tons of sources of stat blocks for good aligned creatures and NPCs. NPC Codex, Giants Revisited, Dragons Revisited, the Rival Guide, every single bestiary, the bestiaries in the APs, and many times the APs and modules have good aligned creatures or NPCs as allies.
Evil guys outnumber good for the reasons I stated above, but if you are looking for allies there are plenty of sources and given Paizo's history, I'm certain there will be more in the future.
If you are looking for opponents for evil aligned NPCs to face, you have an even bigger pool to choose from. Bad guys are just as likely to steal from each other as they are to steal from good guys. Rivalries and betrayals between evil groups can easily turn into entire adventures. I can easily see an evil group trying to steal an artifact from a liche king or the middle of necropolis. Baba Yaga is just as concerned about her daughters as she is about good aligned adventurers. Orc or goblin raiders don't care if the neighboring kingdom is run by a benevolent dictator or an evil despot. Evil groups operate in a target rich environment.
It's almost as if someone were thinking about moving into Eldritch Knight when they wrote it....
It's best to wait and to take Extra Exploit (eldritch blade) as your 9th level feat. The blade's effective level lags behind the magus by 2 levels. That's mitigated a lot by the more flexible nature of the arcane reservoir.
Sorry, I meant to say "My favorite thing about Goodreader is the..."
In Goodreader, you just tap the display and pick the crop button and it is pretty obvious. Not sure if you can with the Dropbox reader (which is also pretty good and free).
Will Goodreader unzip them as well? If so, it might be worth downloading just so I don't have to use 2 different apps.
Yes,Good Reader can deal with zipped PDFs also. Generally when I'm using my iPad to download direct from PDF it prompts me to open in Goodreader and it just takes care of everything.
Goodreader 4 is on sale right now for $.99. You can transfer over wifi, send PDFs downloaded from the web to it, or use DropBox or other services. Easily worth a buck.
My favorite thing about dropbox is the fact that I can set a crop level and it applies it across the entire book so I can get rid of thick borders and just view the text.
I would love for a way for the current rules to "evolve". No huge changes, but a simplification of presentation and clarification of many of the currently confusing rules. Essentially taking much of what was learned in the Beginners Box and expanding it to the entire core book. Perhaps folding some of the better (better as in more interesting/ balanced not as in stronger) play options from later in the game into the core book (for example: get rid of seldom used rage talents and fold some of the better ones back into core).
Is that a new version? I don't think it needs to be, but I suspect many would argue it is.
I pretty much buy all my books from Amazon. Even with the delayed release for not buying directly from Paizo, it's quicker (and vastly cheaper) to get books from Amazon.ca
The copy of the ACG sitting on my shelf begs to differ with 'quicker'. As for cheaper, the link I posted from Miniature Market is $4 less than the Amazon price. Depending on shipping/ Prime membership, etc you may well be able to get it from Miniature Market both quicker and cheaper.
Joe Bots wrote:
How long after general release does Amazon get the books? I pre-ordered there and they still don't have them in stock to ship.
Paizo doesn't sell direct to Amazon so they won't know.
It is in distribution and 3rd party retailers are selling it which is about all Paizo can control.
I would say contact Amazon, but that's a black hole. My suggestion is buy through a company with better customer service or that at least pays enough attention to give accurate dates on products. Miniature Market has some listed in stock, have a decent discount, and I've gotten good service from them in the past (though I generally don't order books from them).
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
Definitely a great idea.
Darche Schneider wrote:
Paunch points can be regained through completing dares as well.
Paunch points are regained by spending time on the couch and eating an extra helping of dessert. Spending a long weekend gaming with a bag of Cheetos and Oreos is also a quick way to pick up some Paunch points.
Not trying to be language police, but Paunch Points.... couldn't resist
If you want a character to occasionally be able to do something awesome, there needs to be some kind of limit to it.
How do you solve the problem of metering "awesome" for non-magic-weilding characters?
Tell people playing characters without magic they can't do awesome stuff?
Let them do awesome things every round?
Put an arbitrary limit on it? (Rounds of rage, uses per day, panache)
Use another expendable resource which is possibly easier to game? (Hit Points, ability scores, fatigue, consciousness)
At some point you have to make a choice and something needs to meter the awesome.
The blade advances as a black blade (Ultimate Magic 47) using the blade adept’s class level in place of the magus’s class level and points from her arcane reservoir in place of the magus’s arcane pool.
A blade mage gains an arcane reservoir as normal (and uses them as normal for other exploits), any time she would spend points from her arcane pool, she spends points from her arcane reservoir instead.
For the sake of simplification, let's just say that in August 14, 2014, Paizo.com did not have an option to use a cc registered to Republic of Korea (South Korea) address, but it did have the option to use a cc connected to Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) address. Hence my rant.
This is something you should bring up with customer service, not on a random thread. They'll get you straightened out.
j b 200 wrote:
It's likely there will be a mix, some pages with 2 stat blocks and 1 piece of art and some larger, more important pieces with a piece of art for each stat block. Somewhere between the NPC Codex and a bestiary.
It was a 2 minute spell, but I'd say it's balanced against other cantrips. It affects more targets than disrupt undead, but with a range of touch it's not exactly caster friendly.
Magii would love it though since it would give them a zero level spell which deals a bit of damage to use while spamming spell combat, so it would probably not have magus in the listed classes.
A stabbing thing of pure force appears in the caster's hand. If the caster strikes a target, the stabber deals 1d6 points of force damage and the spell ends.
Does anyone know when Amazon is going to be getting this? They keep telling me that Paizo hasn't updated any shipping info so it might not be til sep 2nd. Anyone else have any updates?
There have been issues with Amazon for a Very Long Time the short answer is if you want predictable delivery of new releases from Paizo, Amazon isn't the best online source.
Because PFS isn't Pathfinder. Not every class or concept that fits the game system fits PFS well.
I suspect even if all of the archetypes/ feats/ items/ spells were run by the PFS team in advance (they aren't), many of them would still be in the book.
Overall, very little of the book is held back from PFS. A few archetypes with firearms, a couple archetypes that summon lots of things, and one or two evil oriented archetypes is about it; some feats that do similar things; and a few magic items. Out of the 290+ pages in the book, maybe 1% is not allowed.
I saw "steel hound" and got the knee-jerk image of a detective with a clockwork hound construct companion. Knowledge of existing class balance dismissed this theory and I started reading. I like what it does...if that counts...
*Shrug* the mecha pup has tons of appeal so I can see that.
A hound is a tracker... an investigator is a tracker... Granted the parallels are thin, but there you go.
As for steel, that's meant to be a reference to the weapon.
I'm still not sure where I could have gone with a name for this guy that would be more evocative/ descriptive. It's an investigator with a gun... IMO a good concept for an archetype but a tough call on naming.
Sometimes you have a good name and the make the concept follow, other times its the reverse, you have a great concept and need a name.
Well mine was Steel Hound not brown-fur transmuter... personally, I don't think brown fur is bad at all. Not sure why 'brown fur' though, I don't get my PDF until tonight!!
It's a weird choice, but I still think the worst-name archetype is the brown-fur transmuter with steel hound running a close second.
Ouch, I don't think it's that bad. At least it's only second worst :|
Sometimes great names for abilities or archetypes are tough, particularly when you have to come up with a pile of them. In my defense: Stygian Slayer
If I were a betting man, I'd say something with brown fur.
Gains a weapon as a bonded item at 1st level, it grows intelligence at 3rd level as Blade Bound Magus' black blade. Deliver touch spells through the blade. Other abilities that revolve around that along with some exploits it can take. The most notable being one which allows the blade to progress based on caster level so the arcanist can switch to eldritch knight.
I hate asking again seeing as it was technically already answered, but is the Flying Blade capable of going ranged only, or is it more of an off throwing build. As I said, throwing has gotten no love so far so I just wanted to know.
Unfortunately, I don't have the final print version in front of me. It was built on the throwing dagger and star knife so it would work with both ranged and melee attacks. You could certainly just throw or mix and match. Lots of limits around thrown weapons so it's tough to be as good at ranged combat as an archer, but it should be decent.
Not sure about Slashing Grace.
Does the Steel Hound get anything aside from a firearm?