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Kajehase wrote:
I'd guess the other way around. Back in the distant days of the first RPG Superstar, Clinton Boomer made waves with his arboreal, chaotic monkey goblins. Like regular goblins, but more inclined to think in three dimensions. All of the talk of Zaiobe in this thread is making me a bit regretful. I ran her pretty much as written, and I feel like I've missed an opportunity. The biggest change I made to Brinewall Legacy is I kept Ameiko active throughout all of it. Rather than the kami possessing her, I figured that it should possess someone in order to get her attention, to make her want to go find the warding box and the Amatatsu Seal. So it took Sandru out of the picture; that definitely stopped the caravan, and triggered her survivor's guilt over Sandru's little brother (although that bit of backstory has only been alluded to so far). It also gave the PCs a chance to see Ameiko in action; she has a reputation for being a badass, and I didn't like the "damsel in constant distress" that she seemed to be in the modules as written. Since my party consists of three people, I've been having one or two NPCs joining them on their expeditions. It makes them feel much more involved, and does away with the "why are the NPCs so damn lazy?" feeling that their constantly staying behind with the caravan conveys. I altered caravan combat considerably, based on suggestions made here on the message boards, but my players still don't like it. They like the other caravan stuff; the Security and Resolve checks and trading, but the combat, even after I made it more involved for all the PCs, left them cold. So my current plan is to have it so that combat is as normal on the road, but the caravan in total acts as another character making attacks. It can be attacked in turn, taking HP damage as the rules. The PCs are currently in Kalsgard, so I haven't had the opportunity to actually test that plan out yet. Speaking of Kalsgard, I hated the first half of Night of Frozen Shadows as written. It's a terrible mystery, full of situations where there's only one way to get the right answer and huge leaps of logic (why would all parties take the "join Snorri Stone-eye" thing literally?). So I stripped it down to its barest components and created multiple alternate sources of info for them to get. In my version of events, the Rimerunners learned where Suishen was from Madame Kawaoh, the Tien antiques dealer. She bore Fynn Snaevald a grudge for refusing to part with Suishen, so when Rimerunners agents started bullying her for info about magical katanas, she gave it up quickly. The ninjas were already on board Snaevald's funeral ship, as they had been given order to put him down if he escaped the hold before the ship caught fire. This was also to undo the stupidity of it being impossible for the PCs to see the ninjas coming, and how exactly the Frozen Shadows knew that the PCs would raid that ship within hours of them learning about it. Instead of the chain of events as written, my PCs snuck into Longthew's party, got his information and departed peacefully (after he died unexpectedly of blood geas, they politely excused themselves and made a break for it). They learned Madame Kawaoh's information after doing her a favor as a sidequest. They attended the Stone-Eye funeral as guests, luckily spotted the ninja's canoes departing and intercepted them at the beach where they made land. After capturing and interrogating the ninja, they used them as bait to lure Omoyani to Kalsgard, where they ambushed and killed her (although they were trying to catch her). They used Spivey's divination abilities to sort through the information they'd gotten and launched their attack on Ravenscraeg based on that. I also heavily revamped Goti Runecaster. For a villain who gets a two-page spread and a lot of mention in the text as Someone To Watch Out For, fighting him in a hallway as a guard is stupid. My Goti Runecaster is rumored to be a shapeshifter (I swapped out acid arrow for alter self in his spell-list) and many people as rightfully paranoid about him. In the public eye, Thorborg Silverskorr bought Ravenscraeg as a favor to Runecaster, and the ninjas of the Frozen Shadows identify him as their ultimate mastermind. The PCs went to Ravenscraeg thinking that he's the boss of the adventure, so learning that he's deferring to a red-skinned ogre who's actually Thorborg Silverskorr (from the imprisoned merchant) was something of a twist. But I'm getting twistier. Goti will be the final boss inside of Ravenscraeg inside the twisted pagoda, and he's going to use alter self to impersonate Thorborg Silverskorr. He'll also surrender if it's clear he's going to lose and be a helpful source of info to the PCs if they interrogate him. After all, his ultimate goal is helping his adoptive mother, and he cares nothing for the political struggles on another continent. He removed his blood geas at the first possible opportunity, and Kimandatsu has no idea. So the PCs will fight Goti, retrieve Ulf, leave Ravenscraeg... and then they'll fight Kimandatsu. Who's destroyed the stairs leading out of Ravenscraeg and surrounded herself with meat-shield "reinforcements". Should be a highly memorable battle. In a game a loong time ago, I had a PC hit by Wisdom drain draw his inspiration pretty closely from the 3.x Player's Handbook equivalencies.
Lloyd Jackson wrote:
Yes, which is why none of the monsters in Brinewall have them. Nindenzego's wand has no CL listed, so it's minimum (CL 3rd), and Kikonu is CL 5th. The only way to get that sort of damage output is if the party manages to get in the unenviable position of fighting them both at once, which (on paper, at least) shouldn't happen. Shouldn't they have had time to retreat if Kikonu was off fetching the decapus? Did they stubbornly hold their ground until it was too late? In all of my years of running roleplaying games, the majority of my games started at first level. In fact, I have seen more published adventures aimed for the lowest levels than any other. Alas, so many of those scenarios fall into the same well-worn groove. Most adventures written for and played by first level characters use a familiar cast of giant vermin (usually spiders), wolves and dire rats, kobolds and goblins and wave after wave of skeletons and zombies. But does this have to be the case? It is my opinion that monsters do not need to be high CR in order to be interesting. Creature Codex Volume 4: First Level Foes is designed to enliven and add diversity to your low-level games with a cast of unusual creatures, ranging in origin from world folklore to original creations. The creatures in this book range in CR from ½ to 3, from minions to be battled en masse to creatures that can serve as the focal point for entire adventures. Enjoy! If you like this product, please check out the rest of the Creature Codex line from Demiurge Press! Thank you, ThatWeirdGeckoGuy for your review! The veytha are intentionally not quite balanced for PC play; think of them like a drow or a gnoll. Allowable in a higher powered game, or using the rules from the upcoming Advanced Race Guide. Glad you liked it, and I'm always happy to see that you play-test the monsters in your games. Tommy GM wrote:
The Five Storms are all of the oni allied with the Jade Regent and Anamurumon. The Typhoon Guard is their public face, but every oni in the 6th adventure are in their ranks, as are almost all of the oni in Tide of Honor. Kikonu and Kimandatsu are their vanguard in Avistan (although Kikonu isn't the most reliable member), and the House of Withered Blossoms was once their prison (its remaining oni being outcast members). The trick is that the name "Five Storms" refers to the organization as a whole, not five specific wind yai. Eric Hinkle wrote:
That was inspired by feedback from our previous releases. We offered a grayscale version as a printer-friendly PDF, and multiple reviewers pointed out that it wasn't that printer friendly. So, we fixed it. The Martians were coming here for natural resources, specifically human blood, which they used as food. Their own planet's ecological collapse was conjectured to be the reason for their expansionism, but it's not entirely clear (Martian-human conversations weren't exactly a priority for either species). I actually laughed when I read this entry, when I got to the powerful charge ability. That charge certainly is powerful! It's like a sparkly little bullet! On the basis of that ability, which is over-the-top in a good way while simultaneously being about in line for a CR 7 creature, you'd have my vote. Unfortunately, there's a lot of little problems that conspire to drag this thing down. I'm not entirely sure how the gallant charge ability is supposed to work. Is it supposed to keep going, like Spirited Charge? Or does it get a full move action worth of movement? The conjured mount, likewise, suffers from ambiguous rulesmanship. Is it a creature? Is it a spell effect? If it has hit points and an AC, what about saves? Perhaps you'd have been better suited by tweaking the phantom steed spell to give it a fly speed. And you cut so many corners in the stat-block that it almost feels like you're gaming the word count. No DCs for SLAs means that DMs are going to have to look up each spell before they use the sidhe lord. The poison has a DC based on Charisma, which is unusual, but it doesn't call that out. Although the flavor-text gives me a strong idea of how to use a sidhe lord in a game, the amount of mechanical questions and problems drag it down to where I wouldn't want to use it. I will not be voting for this entry. Best of luck! There's a lot that I like about this entry, which surprised me a bit, because I expected I was going to hate it. I think it was the apostrophe. I see an apostrophe and I think "oh god, not again". They're overused, is what I'm saying. But this critter is cool! It's an intelligent swarm, of which there aren't very many, which uses tools and builds traps, which is definitely something I haven't seen before. The spellcasting is pretty potent, and I wish that there was more explanation for it, particularly with the queen and the hivemind or lack thereof. I would much prefer a colony consisting only of one swarm, with the spellcasting being the function of its queen. I do like the boiling poison; it puts me in mind of bombardier beetles. Poison doing elemental damage isn't unheard of, but it's mostly confined to the high CR linnorms--bringing it to the middle tier is smart design work. The prose seems to me to be just slightly off, but I can't put my finger on why. I'm a little confused, honestly. Although this entry has one big flaw (the hivemind), I like it rather a lot. I will be voting for this entry; best of luck with the rest of the voters! So it's a giant starfish, with Starro-style eyes at the end of each arm? Cool. Unlike Neil, I think the vast suite of defensive abilities make sense, given the theme. Starfish are scary critters, after all. However, I don't think they were thought out all the way through. Split doesn't reduce each of the clone's max hp, just their current hp. So regeneration means that they can heal back up to full, and the encounter just got much much harder. I agree that there should have been some consideration as to how split works with a creature that has an anatomy. Does each half get half the arms? Or do they grow a bunch of new arms right away quick? Speaking of those arms, having ten attacks with grab riding on them is pretty darn terrifying. There's a reason Paizo boosted the kraken to CR 18! You probably would have been better served giving it one "arms" attack, similar to a decapus or devilfish. I really like the self-evisceration ability, though. It's a good use of the entrap mechanics, and a neat reference to how real-world starfish hunt. As Neil pointed out, there's a lot of computing flaws to this beastie. Both the saves and the attacks are way off. In summary, although this entry inspired me to figure out how to get a giant murderous starfish into my games, it did not make me want to use this giant murderous starfish. I will not be voting for this entry. Best of luck with the voters! There's a lot to like with this monster. The subterranean bat-dog niche is an interesting one, and I love the mental images that crop up with this thing slinking along cavern walls behind prey. Unlike some of the judges, I like the idea of them having communities where they worship the trinkets of humanoid races--it seems appropriate for their cunning-but-not-bright mental abilities. The various sonic abilities are well-crafted and tightly themed. But then there's that numbing bite thing. I can understand the appeal of it; it's a vampire bat thing. But when a big wolf-monster is taking a chunk out of your thigh and you're bleeding everywhere, it shouldn't be that difficult to notice. Maybe for you, if it's in Stealth mode and you're hopped up on drugged spit, but for your party members? It should take less than a DC 18 Perception check to notice that you're missing half your leg and trailing blood everywhere. Also, a 3.5ism snuck in here. Its claws should do full Str bonus to damage. This entry has a few flaws, but I like it anyway. The monster is flavorful, and I'd gladly use one. You have my vote. Good luck with the rest of the voters! This monster strikes me as pretty solid. I don't think it's particularly overpowered (highish attack and defenses, but low average damage), although the off saves and attacks and the missing feat hurt it. The save DC on the spell distortion should also be lower. The writing is what sells this monster for me. It fits in well with the Golarion theme and the actual quality of the prose is pretty high. There's one thing that bugs me, though. This was apparently an early Thassilonian fleshwarping experiment, culminating in the creation of sinspawn. How, exactly? Sinspawn are dumber and weaker than these guys by far--how are they an improvement to the process? If these things escaped their master's control and broke loose, I could see it, maybe, but as written that comes off as a stumble. Although there were a number of little stumbles, the idea is solid, the prose is good and I come away with an overall positive impression. You have my vote, although you should double-check both your math and your logic if you want to get it again in the encounters round. Good luck! It's not a good sign when you present me with a demon-tainted skeletal tree and I think, "oh, how dull". Although the flavor is there, mechanically the witchbole willow doesn't bring anything particularly new to the table. Its one special ability is thornburst, which doesn't work as advertised. If it's thorns, shouldn't there be some piercing damage involved? If it's a poison effect, plants are already immune! I would have loved to see something witchier to bring a new element to the table. The lack of descriptive text until the third paragraph of flavor-text really irked me. That's what the italics above the stat-block are for. Speaking of the statblock, the saving throws are rather a bit off. Did this have Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes at some point in development? Also, as far as the flavor-text goes, Treerazer's minions are mostly demons, who have greater teleport at will. I imagine that the elven blockade accounts for teleportation effects pretty handily. This monster isn't bad, exactly, but it's kind of boring. And boring isn't Superstar. You will not be getting one of my votes. Best of luck! You had me at the description text. I can easily see a shambling amorphous mass of coral oozing slowly forward, its body shaped into jagged protrusions it uses to lash out at prey. Although the anti-magic effect is unusual for an undead, I like it. The limitation to it only being against the creature grabbed helps pull it in line with a CR 7--if an antimagic field is for 10th level characters to experience, a single target, rider-dependent antimagic ability three levels lower seems fair. The creation guidelines, connection to the campaign setting and the plot tie-ins with its undead followers are all delicious gravy topping a fine monster. The necrotic reef is one of the most usable creatures of the contest I've seen so far, and I will happily give it one of my votes. Good luck! I rather liked the Eye of Abednego connection, but I wouldn't have made it the only place they're encountered. As the judges have pointed out, there's not much going on there in terms of people with shiny treasures for them to steal, so they'd be more usable if they spread out from there into the rest of the world. The mechanics on the other hand... I didn't like so much. As written, this thing can make an attack in a 60 foot line every round, drop 6d6 damage on all in that line and steal from all of them? That's pretty powerful, and pretty annoying. The shocking aura is likewise rough, although it appears to be a save negates, so if you pass the Reflex, you don't need to worry about the stunning. Makes me feel sorry for the poor wizards who can't pass either, though. The "free bag of holding with every purchase" seems like a bit much. That's a good magic item; I wonder why they haven't been hunted into extinction by adventurers yet. What pushed this entry for me from a weak pass to a weak fail was the weaknesses. How do slow and poison impact it negatively? Does it take damage faster? Does it lose its thunderdash if it's slowed? It just comes up a big blank spot, and for that reason I won't be voting for this entry. Best of luck with the voters. Oh, and I see the name as "thunderchief". Every time. It's weirding me out. Where do I begin with this one? Off the bat, I'm instantly leery at its defenses, which are all very strong for the CR. Instead of making attacks, it has an aura of damage. Now, the aura does 23 damage a round, which is fair for a CR 7... but to multiple targets? Every round? The special abilities between the stat-block and the Special Abilities paragraphs don't match up, and the DR 5/- but vulnerable to non-magic cold iron really rubs me the wrong way. There is a precedent for DR/non-magical (the lukwata, of Serpent's Skull and Bestiary 3). There's a lot of non-mechanical language among the mechanics section. "Body-corrupting damage"? "Faint purple trail" left by its atmospheric entry? This stuff could have been in the flavor text. And how exactly do its victims become gibbering mouthers, "given time"? Is this a create spawn ability? The "treated as an ooze for all hostile spell effects originating from non-aberrations" stops me dead in my tracks. So, an aberration can cast a poison spell on a Co'tV, but a person can't? Or get a critical hit with scorching ray? How? Why? Although I'm usually a sucker for horrors from beyond the stars, I will not be voting for this entry. Best of luck in the polls. I'm immediately intrigued when I see that this creature uses the alchemist bomb ability. That's a bit of unused niche space for monsters, so it's nice to fill it, especially with a plant! There need to be more murderous plants. Unfortunately, there's a lot of mechanical issues and formatting problems that slowly drag the pyrebloom down. First off, there's the "vines" thing. Pathfinder standardized natural attacks. These should be slams, or maybe tentacles. And you've forgotten the size penalty to hit! The pyrebloom has three abilities that are all dependent on Constitution, but they have three different save DCs! To be fair, one of them is modified by Ability Focus, but it's hard to tell at a glance, because the feats aren't in alphabetical order! The balance feels like it could use some work. It's got low attacks and damage for a CR 7, except when it explodes, which is a bit high damage at a very high DC. Ability Focus is just gilding the exploding lily here, and is likely to end up with some dead PCs and annoyed characters. On the other hand, it's a giant flower filled with noxious fluids that throws bombs and explodes when you kill it. And that's awesome. So much so that, despite my well-deserved reputation as being a stickler for mechanics, that I feel inclined to vote for the pyrebloom. But that vote is in spite of its mechanics, not because of them. I recommend you brush up your mechanical skills for the encounter round. Good luck! I like fey, shadow creatures and ambush monsters, so I'm already half-sold coming into this entry from the start. And fortunately, the laru delivers on that promise. The mechanics are solid, which I really appreciate. All the "I"s are dotted and the "T"s crossed. The monster's signature abilities are tightly focused, being memorable without going over-the-top into excess. As to Neil's concern about the Charisma drain, it is a powerful ability. But it needs to grapple in order to use it, which makes it more vulnerable to attack by other party members, which is not a place the laru wants to be. One CR up, the greater shadow is throwing around a like amount of Strength damage, which makes it harder to fight, and it's incorporeal to boot! My one complaint is the descriptive text. Reading that description, I don't have a very good picture of the laru. Is it a humanoid? How many limbs does it have? The rest of the entry clears things up a little, but more detail to the appearance would be nice. All in all, this is one of my favorite entries I have read so far, and you definitely have my vote. Good luck! The problem with making a noble fey at CR 7 is that there's already a CR 7 noble fey. The nymph. So you're already competing with the core monsters right out of the gate. And in a lot of ways, this sidhe noble reminds me of a nymph, only more boring. Both creatures have a Cha-to-deflection ability and spellcasting, but the sidhe noble doesn't have any interesting abilities like blinding beauty and stunning glare. He has a minor buff ability for his allies and a cool feat chain. The best work in this creature was done by other people: the feats and the spells. Sure, it's good to use the resources in the game well, but you need to bring something to the table yourself. I'm not so sure that the sidhe noble is super-overpowered compared to other creatures of its CR. The damage from its melee or ranged attacks is pretty sad for a CR 7, making up for its high defenses and mobility. The constant teleporting strikes me as a bit gimmicky, but it's a good gimmick. The flavor-text does seem disjointed; the paragraph breaks every two sentences make it feel like it was being typed on the spur of the moment, with you coming back and adding more as a new paragraph throughout the time slot. Another editing pass would have smoothed out the flavor text and made it seem more organic; as is, it's choppy. And again, Paizo has so far avoided the Seelie/Unseelie split, and you've stumbled into it. Perhaps a bit more research would have helped them feel more Golarion. Although this monster displays competence, which is good, it doesn't wow me, which is bad. I don't think I will vote for this creature. Best of luck with the polls! Although the mechanics are creative, they sort of don't make sense. They are incorporeal, but they can manipulate items in order to put them into their bodies and heal. They can heal a lot of damage in a round, even just by picking up rocks. It's not clear whether they destroy an item they take or if it just becomes part of them. The partial corporeality combines features of 3.5 and Pathfinder incorporeality, and I'm not sure if that's intentional. I agree with Neil's assessment that basing the phasing ability off of blink might have been the way to go in order to clarify what, exactly, these things are and what they do. The flavor-text also rubs me the wrong way. First, the "humans doing stuff in the Ethereal and it goes hideously wrong" schtick is already the backstory for the adherers. Secondly, who's Vreet-Hall? Why could he influence the entire path of a race? I want to know about him more than I do about the phasic ravagers, and that's not a good sign. Also, do these things breed true? I like the idea here, but there's just too many stumbling blocks and questions for me to get behind this entry. It ends up annoying me, and that's not something I want to vote for. You clearly have your fans (considering that you've made it this far when all of the judges disliked your organization), so you may well make it to Round 4. But I'm afraid it will be without my vote. I'm glad to see I've been beaten to the punch with the monster origins topic. I always like to see a critter with a basis in real-world mythology, and so seeing the name anzu in the forum made me smile a bit. This was the first monster I clicked. Unfortunately, that smile faded a bit when I read on. The lack of descriptive text at the beginning is an annoying lack of attention to the format. While I don't agree with Neil that this monster does too many things too well, I think he's on the right track with claiming this guy's over the top in terms of difficulty. It has multiple debuff abilities, all of which stack with each other. Fighting this thing is going to be a huge pain for both the players and the GM, having to track so many +2s and -2s. Also, remember that fear effects stack. An unfortunate soul who gets hit with the howl of despair in round 1 and two bites in round 2 is going to be sucking up three shaken effects, which mean he's now panicking if he fails his saves, which is likely because there are now penalties to all his saves. Was this intentional? The changing shape seems to be tacked on. The flavor-text makes it work a bit more with their modus operandi of screwing around with adventurers and liking contrasting emotions, but it strikes me as gilding the flying, two-headed lily. To sum up, although I like the concept, the execution leads these guys into the realm of being annoying, both to fight and to run. I wouldn't want to use this anzu in an encounter, and I won't be voting for it. I wish you the best of luck. I must confess, I was instantly leery of this entry upon seeing its name. "Adjective compound-noun" names immediately put me in mind of 4e monster naming conventions, which put me in a bit of a sour mood. Fortunately, this monster is able to escape that trap handily, being creative and mechanically interesting. The read-aloud text is very good. I immediately have a mental image of this beastie. I like the little exceptions to its swallow abilities (fast swallow sometimes plus slowed when engorged). The arcana theft is clearly the star attraction of this creature, and it works nicely. I want to use one in a game. Now, there are mechanical glitches. I grind my teeth whenever I see Improved Natural Armor or Natural Attack in a baseline monster entry. You made it: you can set those values however you choose! However, the gorgewort is sitting at one feat too many, so those problems cancel each other out, in a weird way. The issues with its saves and initiative are less easily forgiven (why do so many people want to give initiative penalties for size? Is it a relic of weapon speed?) Despite those issues, the gorgewort rises high. It's flavorful, interesting and perfectly usable in a game. I will be voting for this entry, and I wish you the best of luck! Well, that's a different niche than a lot of monsters. Being different is good. Unfortunately, that niche is "hose the wizard/witch", which is less good. The connection between hurin and familiars is sort of odd and tenuous; do all hurin become eyeless raven-things? Or do they grow wings and their bodies fall off regardless of type? A bit more flavor-text would have done well to clarify that. Their special attacks are kind of weird. They give really good bonuses even if the save is passed, which makes them less of a threat. "Thanks for trying to take over my mind! In repayment, let me destroy you even more quickly!" And as Sean pointed out, it's not terribly clear if they should be targeting familiars or their masters with unsettling advice. Mechanically speaking, you've given them iterative attacks on a natural weapon, which is a huge no-no. Their primary source of damage is one SLA, which is somewhat novel; I think I like it, but I'm not too sure. From a presentation standpoint, the spelling and proofreading errors come off like a slap in the face--jarring and offensive. As an RPG Superstar contestant, you're writing a job application. Treat it like one! I agree with the assessments that this feels more like a cursed magic item or a plot device than a proper creature, and the holes in both conception and execution leave it with a lot to be desired. Not every swing for the fences connects, and I'm afraid I will not be voting for this creature. It looks like you have fans, though, so you might not need my vote. Best of luck! Vanulf Wulfson wrote:
If you do that, you're going to have to substantially rework the first act of Brinewall Legacy. Spoiler:
The Brinestump Marsh segment presupposes that We Be Goblins has already happened and the goblin PCs were successful. Without getting the cash of fireworks in the Kaijistu Star, the goblins don't find the map to the Brinestump Caverns, don't awaken Tsutamu by stealing the treasure they find there and aren't nearly wiped out by the skeleton horde. If the We Be Goblins goblins haven't succeeded, the Licktoad goblins are at their full strength (anywhere from 30 to 70 goblins) and the breadcrumb trail of clues isn't there. The PCs would have to go to the Kaijistu Star and fight the witch in order to find the map to the cave, and they might be less motivated to go there if there isn't the mystery as is set up. Of course, if they do go and loot it, there's always the chance that the skeletons follow the PCs back to Sandpoint to reclaim what's theirs... Brekkil wrote:
That sounds fantastic. I'll even return the favor, if you're interested in any of the Creature Codex line. Thank you! Going through Lord Gadigan's list:
Incubus, axebeaks, valkyries and the flying torsos (manngannal [sp]) are in Bestiary 3. The flightless birds with teeth and the flapping horrors in the Mwangi Expanse are more flavorful ways of saying "dinosaurs", specifically Deinonychus and Pteranodon respectively. I totally want to see charigs as familiars. Hadn't thought about it until it was mentioned upthread. Here here! As a publisher, I love getting reviews, and as a reader I love writing them. I even got into a bit of trouble here with a few posters for writing (well-reasoned and constructive, at least I thought) a negative review for a product of a similar nature to ones I had published. I can understand how that might look bad, so I (reluctantly) haven't written many reviews lately. I appreciate the good work, Brekkil! Keep it up! The insinuation from Into the Darklands has been that, at least in Pathfinder, they're human refugees from Earthfall who fled underground and were warped by exposure to the Plane of Shadow. So they're human-like, mostly, but pale and wiry. Stunted, in the case of dark creepers. I did run a game, however, where the dark creepers were completely bestial, with fur-covered bodies, sharp teeth and hooves, whereas the dark stalkers were mostly human. I'm a big fan of the dark folk, and have used them in a number of games. I've always seen dark folk as existing more in the underbellies of human civilizations than having civilizations of their own, acting as black-marketeers, thieves and occasional assassins. They're not evil, rather they're more amoral, selfish and profiteering (befitting their CN alignment). Not typically ambitious, but a good go-to group for ambiguous allies or opponents for PC activities. Since "cave dinosaurs" were introduced in a non-OGL source, they're absolutely not allowed for Pathfinder or a 3rd party company to publish under that name. That said, dinosaurs underground are absolutely a trope of subterranean fantasy fiction. And in Pathfinder, there are explicitly vaults deep below the earth full of prehistoric monsters. And there's the young template, which makes creatures one size smaller. So young template + dinosaurs + trog riders = 100% OGL compatible cave dinos.
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