Deimodius's page

It is intriguing, but I think it might only work if the PCs are already "familiar" with a certain world, otehrwise it's just like starting any new campaign with different house rules.

I think you would need to create a campaign where your PCs adventure in their "known" world for x number of levels (say 5th to 10th) and where those x number of levels worth of adventures not only make them feel at home and familiar with their world 9and have ties to family/NPCs/locations) but wherein the recurring main BBEG is pursuing a plot that will endanger the known world, but which also throws the PCs somewhere else.

That way there is more at stake with getting home, and the "new" place will actually feel significantly different from the previous place. It also gives them the increased dire need to get back to see family/loved ones, and to stop the BBEG.

Also, they would have to be sent to a different plane, or you would otherwise have to ban certain spells/items (ie. teleport) and make sure they can't get their hands on a "wish" until you want them to.

But yes, it is an intriguing idea.

SO, my players finally managed to get past the howling face to get to the Grick/Sphere Trap chamber. The decided they wanted to use candles to light all the lanterns instead of the sunrods they had with them, or torches. Even though the text says to light with torches I allowed it.

However, it took them quite a while in the Sphere room, and though it didn't come up, it occurred to me, what if one or more of the light sources in the lantern room is extinguished while the PCs are still on teh other side? Does the Howling Face reappear? How would the PCs escape? SHort of finding some way to dig through the spheres to get to the Grick tunnnel (assuming they know about it) are they screwed? Can Allistor (sp?) use his manifestation ability to go to the Lantern room and relight the lanterns?

Has anyone else had this problem?

Barrett's Privateers, by the late, great (Canadian) Stan Rogers!!! (Respect, yo) You really need to hear this one. No music accompanies it, just people clapping and stopping!

O the year was 1778
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
A letter of marque came from the king
To the scummiest vessel I've ever seen

G~! d*+n them all
I was told we'd cruise the seas for American gold
We'd fire no guns, shed no tears
Now I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier,
The last of Barrett's Privateers

2. O Elcid Barrett cried the town
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
For twenty brave men all fishermen who
Would make for him the Antelope's crew
G++ d*+n them all . . . .

3. The Antelope sloop was a sickening site
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
She'd list to the port and her sails in rags
And the cook in the scuppers with the staggers and jags
G%~ d%!n them all . . . .

4. On the King's birthday we put to sea
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
Ninety-one days to Montego Bay
Pumping like madmen all the way
G&! d!!n them all . . . .

5. On the ninety-sixth day we sailed again
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
When a great big Yankee hove in sight
With our cracked four-pounders we made to fight
G@+ d&$n them all . . . .

6. The Yankee lay low down with gold
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
She was broad and fat and loose in stays
But to catch her took the Antelope two whole days
G!% d&&n them all . . . .

7. Then at length she stood two cables away
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
Our cracked four-pounders made awful din
But with one fat ball the Yank stove us in
G~~ d@+n them all . . . .

8. The Antelope shook and pitched on her side
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
Barrett was smashed like a bowl of eggs
And the main truck carried off both me legs
G#% d~*n them all . . . .

9. Now here I lay in my twenty-third year
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now
It's been six years since we sailed away
And I just made Halifax yesterday
G#@ d@+n them all . . . .

I love Halloween. I have my own Halloween web site. (www.halloweenproject.com).

Every year I plan to run a Halloween-themed adventure, but I never have time to write one. I have purchased every October issue of Dragon I can get my hands on, but I haven't really noticed whether the October issues of Dungeon follow the same "Halloween" ambiance every year.

What are the best "Halloween-themed" Dungeon adventures?

I know I can, and I might anyway, for my own use. I just thought it was a good idea that could benefit _everyone_.

Oh well.

:-( I guess the Dungeon staff think this is a bad idea?

Thanks for all the links and info, y'all. I have all four poster maps of Oerth from the last year of Dungeon and they are very useful for getting a good overview of everything.

I love to bring a sense of life going on around my players, the idea that the world doesn't revolve around them, and things just keep going on elsewhere no matter what they do.

Knowing the basic info about all the kingdoms and major players as well as a historical time line helps a DM to create that feeling of a real world where information comes to the players about what's happening elsewhere.

Again, thanks.

Just wondering if anyone at Paizo has given thought to collecting all the Campaign Workbook articles from each issue as a .PDF download each month? These article often have great tables, encounters, and/or NPCs, but DMs who don't DM at home can't really take their entire Dungeon collection with them to the host's house (even though they may want to).

If each month's Campaign Workbook articles were available for Download to subscribers for free, (and maybe for $2 or so to non-subscribers) we could print them out each month and add them to a Campaign Workbook binder, or access them via laptop as we DM!

Please? Pretty please?

M.

I have a subscription to Dungeon, and I'm DMing the AoW AP, and I am cataloguing the adventures from all the issues of Dungeon I have but I am wondering... what is _the_ current authority on Greyhawk?

Is it the Gazetteer? Will WotC be publishing an accessory book for Greyhawk like they did with Ebberon and FR?

If a DM running adventures from Dungeon wants to know more about the Greyhawk campaign world in which those adventured take place, what source should he/she use?

Thanks.

I made a sheet for Whispering Cairn only (we just started it) as well as a sheet of "treasure cards" you can give out to PCs as they find stuff.

You can download both here: http://deimodius.tripod.com/dnd/

They are at the bottom of the page.

Hmm... so I guess we're not that abnormal after all. So I guess what everyone is saying is, "good luck finishing this AP and getting to Savage Tide before you start collecting your pension."

To answer some of the points made:

NPCs/Allustan: I needed a hook to get the PCs to the Whispering Cairn. The one in the adventure is lame unless the PCs are destitute citizens of Diamond Lake. I don't like limiting PC creation too much. In order to get them to the WC, I had Allustan ask them to go. One of the PCs is a wizard, and apprentice to Allustan (as suggested in the magazine). Allustan asked him to take his friends to the abandoned mine office because he scryed a goblin shaman wearing an obsidian necklace. Turns out the obsidian necklace was made from one of the pieces of "black glass" from the destroyed portal in the WC, so Allustan sent them there. Because I can't use the cleric (my original NPC party member) to move things along, I need Allustan.

Non-story RPing: my group is made up of people who enjpy combat, but who like RPing just as much or more. One of the best compliments I ever received was from a player who said he felt like no matter what his character was doing, it felt like the rest of the (game) world was happening around him regardless, just like in real life. So, I may cut back a bit on the extraneous RPing, but they aren't complaining, so...

XP: I'm not using XP. I actually discussed this in a number of other threads already. In my preparation for the game I made a flow chart of the main encounters of WC and figured out the best places to level up. The PCs are level 2, and will hit level 3 when they complete the adventure (like it suggests). As for resurrection we haven't had that problem yet. However, I have never liked the idea that a player's next PC should start out penalized. IMO that discourages heroic action. If a DM tells me that throwing myself into the monster's maw to kill it (and sacrifice myself) will mean I have to play a PC with less XP, or a lower level, why would i do it? Each time I do something like that I am penalized, it makes the game less enjoyable. The only time I would penalize a player's _new_ PC, is if the previous dies because of a player's stupidity.

DM Genie: I have toyed with these DM utilities, and I like them in theory, but they aren't any good to me if they don't include non OGL stuff. Have I missed something? I do like the idea of having the PC sheets on my screen for quick editing. I have been using mini-PC cards in my DM binder to track stuff, but it has been a bit cumbersome.

Possible solutions: I think that rather than having Allustan just tell them what to do, I will leave another clue in the WC for how to by pass the lanterns. They have discovered some of the seeker's bodies so far, maybe I will have them find the ghoul's (what's his name?) "travel journal" with an entry about his thoughts on the lantern room.

Thanks for all the input, y'all. If anyone else has any ideas, pass them along.

I poured over this board before starting AoW with my group, and I thought I knew everything I needed to, but I've hit a snag... things are taking too long. :-(

Admittedly some of it is my fault, and did a whole bunch or "pre-game" roleplaying with them to introduce the town and had them go to the abandoned office to fight the gobilns (they didn't get the hint to use it as a base of operations. sigh). I also had a mini dragon chess tournament to introduce the game, and Khellek from the rival group, as well as some of the mine manager politics.

Now they are crawling along through the whispering cairn! They almost died a couple of times (vs acid beetles and the mad Slasher, and against the door of smiling, blowing bad breath) and took three days (of in game time) to camp in a copse of trees nearby to recuperate.

They stopped at both the brown mold and the flooded level deciding they needed more info, so they went back to town (again) to talk to Allustan, who gave them a few scrolls to help out (Cone of Cold, Water breathing, and Flaming Hands).

I always like to inject little things here and there to add interest to the game, so when they were camping in the copse of trees thay saw a passing squad of soldiers on horseback one afternoon, and the next evening heard a moaning, shambling "something" out in the dark (spawn of kyuss). To keep the verisimilitude, when they returned to town there was a funeral going on for a man who (according to family, friends and the rumour mill) either encountered a zombie, or was drunk and met a bear in the dark.

Okay, now to the point. Even without my additions to the story, they are taking soooo long to get through this module, and I am afraid they will get bored, or that we will never finish the campaign! They STILL haven't figured out the lantern thing (much to my chagrin as I made fun of another group on these boards who didn't figure it out either).

I had originally made an NPC cleric to travel with them, through whom I could nudge things along, but we had another player join who took him over.

How do I get them through this adventure? They keep coming to things and saying "this is too hard, let's go back to town."

These aren't new players, these are people who have been playing ten to fifteen years!

Blarg.

Hmmm... if your pop-culture reference is suggesting that a replacement copy of the magazine is now in the mail, then thank you, I appreciate the response and look forward to reading it when it arrives (possibly in June ;-) )

_If_ however, you meant that you sent me an email on the subject, then I am afraid I did not receive it.

Thanks,

M.

I still haven't received Dragon #353 (the March issue). My Dragon issues seem to always be over a month behind or never arrive.

Thanks.

Swarm: my PCs started running around the room trying to stay away, but not always being successful. They tried hucking alchemist's fire and "oil flask bombs" (molotov cocktails) but the swarm's touch AC is extremely hard to hit, so they were only doing splash damage (and getting very frustrated by it). Eventually they pulled out torches and went to town (on the swarm I mean), but not before the halfling wizard was dropped to negs.

Mad Slasher: the players were tres creeped out by the MS. (I printed out a picture of it to show them all) and the dwarven knight and the cleric of St.Cuthbert took it on. Maddeningly for _me_, the Mad Slasher missed with it's whirlwind attack EVERY TIME! Suffice to say they killed it, and took a leg as a trophy (gross!).

Sarcophagus trap: Where does it say it's a one-shot trap? The text says, "The sarcophagus bears a fiery arcane trap set to trigger when the lifted off the stone coffin, and is completely empty." The details of the trap list it as having an automatic reset. So unless there is a line of text I missed (someone have a page, line reference?) it is possible to use the trap multiple times. The text for the "Ghost in the machine" does say that the wind spirits "akso rest the burning hands trap on the sarcophagus". This would obviously be necessary if the lid was opened but _not closed_. It doesn't necessarily mean that the trap is a "one shot" trap.

Belfur: I believe you are thinking of "ingenious" and "intuitive" at the same time. ;-)

In real life citronella candles don't keep all the bugs away all the time (sometimes I wonder if they help at all!)

Perhaps if you are going to allow their use, give the worms a Save throw to get past them. If you have lots of worms to deal with, split them up into x groups (maybe equal to the number of PCs) and make a save for each group. Some might get through, some might not.

Last session my PCs made it down to the architect's foyer and the large stone block that mostly covers the entrance to the "passage of honour". Two of the smaller ones (elf and halfing) struggled through the opening to check out the passage (but didn't go far enough to encounter the Lurking Strangler) and then returned to their friends.

While searching around the room I mentioned to those who looked at the stone block that it did not appear to be attached to the floor. The party rouge did not search for traps. After some discussion, it was decided that they would use a miner's pick (purchased in town before heading out) to create an opening large enough for them to pass the stone easily.

The miner's pick is listed on table 7-8 on pg 128 of the PHB, but there is no description for how exactly it is used. Neitehr could I find rules for it in the DMG or Arms & Equipment guide. The only rules for breaking stone, of course, are by doing damage (after subtracting Hardness) or using the Break DC. The players offered that a miner's pick probably does about the same damage as a Heavy Pick (1d6).

The hardness for stone is 8, which would make it impossible for the pick to damage the stone. Further, a hewn stone wall of 3 feet thick has 540hp, so this 2' thick stone block would have about 360hp. Of course the HP totals listed in the DMG for stone walls are for a 10' x 10' section. Since the stone slab is only 10' x 8', the entire block would have slightly less than 360hp. The players also decided they only had to chip away enough to get through (about a 5' x 5' section).

The problem still remains, however, how do they overcome the hardness? One player quoted a rule from pg 165 of the PHB:

"Vulnerability to certain attacks: The DM may rule that certain attacks are especially successful against certain objects. For example... chop down a tree with an axe... In such cases attacks deal double their normal damage and may... ignore the object's hardness."

It stands to reason that a miner's pick, like an axe for cutting wood, is specifically designed to get through rock, so using this rule seems reasonable. Since I wasn't able to find any other rules regarding miner's picks and stone, I accepted their argument and allowed it. Really, it was a good idea they had, and not impossible.

So, my question to you, was it alright to accept this argument and allow them to easily bypass the stone block? Obviously they made lots of noise, alerting the lurking strangler to their presence.

Are there rule somewhere for mining, using a miner's pick on stone, etc? I assume that at the very least a miner's pick should be able to ignore some or all of the stone's hardness, but still, given that they had lots of time, and no big monsters to alert on the other side, it was an eventuality that they got through.

Thanks,

M.

Thanks for posting the rules for me guys and gals, it was perfect timing. We have only played two sessions of AoW so far, and in truth we haven't actually made it to the WC yet! (We started with the Abandoned Mine Office side trek which only took half a day, and spent the rest of the day wandering around town).

One of my players can not make it to every session, so he is playing a cleric NPC I made to round out the party (they had no healing!) and even though I gave them all the article about Diamond Lake to read, none of them took an interest in Dragon Chess. SO I gave the NPC cleric ranks for Dragon Chess, although in my game I am using "Knowledge: Gaming" instead of "Profession: Gambling".

I wanted to introduce the players to Dragon Chess because it really should play an important role in socialization in the game. To this end I had the cleric with DC (dragon chess) ranks invited to a small tournament put on by Chaum Gansworth at The Rusty Bucket (also giving the PCs a chance to see the politics of the town at work).

The tourney involved 40 players in single elimination. The main room of the restaurant was laid out with tables for playing while spectators watched from a roped off area along three sides. At the fourth side Chaum sat with Luzanne at his table on the raised platform. There was also a platform with a chalkboard for keeping track of the players, a referee with a bell, and runners to check on the games in progress.

It was very crowded, and though the referee announced NO betting before each match, much gold changed hands. Before the tourney began, Balabar Smenk had the audacity to appear and wish all the players luck, even though it was not his tourney. Accompanied by his albino half-orc body guard (the PCs have not actually met Kullen yet) he pushed through the crowd and asked Chaum if he could join him at his table. Luzanne whispered madly in Chaum's ear, and eventually Chaum declined to have Balabar join him. The surly mine-manager and his body guard left, pushing their way back through the crowd. The PCs watched in rapt attention, trying to figure out the town politics.

Then with a ring of the bell, the tourney began.

I had the Cleric face a total of 5 players, a mix of NPCs from the adventure, a few NPCs made up on the spot. Oh, and did I mention that Khellek was present! The PCs saw him, and had heard ahead of time that a "master" from the Free City had come to play in the tourney.

In order to speed up the games to play an entire tourney, rather than having to win two rolls in a row to capture a board, we played "best 2 out of 3". By narrating between each roll various made up moves and "gambit" or "strategy" names I added some sense of tense anticipation.

In the first round the Cleric, Sarbanne, faced a made-up NPC named Copran Fill, an amiable young man who was likewise new to the game (K:Gaming +1). Sarbanne won this match after four rounds of play (4 x "best 2 out of 3").

After all the matches were complete, he moved to teh next round, facing off against Mélinde, the beautiful red-haired warrior cleric from the temple of Hieroneous. I played her as friendly, and even a little flirtatious. She bantered with Sarbanne, and even pouted coyly when she was losing. This match took a bit longer, 5 rounds, with Mélinde winning the first two rounds, but with Sarbanne then coming back strongly to win three rounds in a row and take the match. Mélinde was gracious in losing, inviting Sarbanne (a cleric of St. Cuthbert) to come by the temple of Hieroneous any time.

For the match against Mélinde one of the other PCs accepted a wager of 5gp from an NPC. While discussing the wager, the PC (Laian, an elven ranger) accidentally flashed a platinum piece he received in payment from Allustan for retrieving an obsidian necklace from the goblins in the abandoned mine office. Of course the players got rather tense when it seemed Sarbanne was losing, but in the end they cheered when he won. The man who lost tried to sneak away, but sullenly paid up.

After a 5 minute break, in which Sarbanne was able to meet with the others for a while, the tournament recommenced with Sarbanne up against Rontabont Mur, the visiting copper merchant staying at the Able Carter Coach Inn. As suggested in the Diamond Lake article, I played Rontabont as being whiny, snivelling, and a very sore loser. He made snide remarks all through the game, at one point almost accusing Sarbanne of cheating and asking for a ruling fro the referee. In the end they did not get to finish this short match because Rontabont became so enraged after losing the Underworld board that he stood up and knocked all the pieces to the floor. Sarbanne won by default and Rontabont was ejected from the premises.

In the fourth round, Sarbanne was matched up against an savant autistic child chaperoned by his grandmother. The child, Dorbur, didn't speak, except occasionally rocking back and forth and muttering "meat!" to which his grandmother said "later, dear" and explained to Sarbanne that his parents were both dead, and Dorbur wanted to make it to the Free City to play Dragon Chess and escape squalor.

Even though Sarbanne (and all the players) felt horrible about the prospect of beating a poor handicapped child (who was none the less an intelligent "genius" child) he played his best, eventually beating the child (with only ONE flubbed roll by me. ;-) ) in 5 rounds.

Now, with only the final match left, the referee called for a 10 minute break. Sarbanne joined his friends and they discussed the interesting social games going on around them, like the two strange men who made reference to Rontabont Mur's loss to Sarbanne, and the possibility that it was fixed.

Finally the break came to an end and Sarbanne was set to face none other than Khellek. Chaum had the two players approach his table where he made a short speech and a toast to the contestants while behind them the regular tables were removed and a special final game table was brought to the center of the room.

Khellek and Sarbanne sat at the table and the game began. Khellek was cool as a cucumber. Sarbanne and his friends had decided they would pump the wizard for info (as they had already heard about the visiting adventurers), but Khellek had his own agenda. When Sarbanne slyly asked if Khellek and his friends had a bumpy ride in from the Free city, Khellek off-handedly remarked that they had "merely teleported in". At this the players all sucked in their breath and swore about how "powerful this guy must be".

They game went in Sarbanne's favour for a while, but Khellek remained calm, giving vague answers to Sarbanne's questions, and posing his own in return he managed to get information out of the cleric about the goblins at the abandoned mine office, and the stirgenest cairn. Much to Sarbanne's chagrin, teh game turned against him, and after 5 rounds Khellek was the victor. He was awarded the prize of a masterwork dragon chess set and 50 gold. The restaurant emptied with the tournament over.

Outside the players tried to convince Khellek that he should join _them_ in exploring the abandoned mine, but he dismissed them politely, but coldly, as being "not experienced enough to accompany him", and he left them standing in the street at 2am, their jaws hanging open.

Of course it didn't end there. The man who lost his 5gp to Laian betting on Sarbanne's second match showed up with 4 friends (3 lvl1 rogues, 2 lvl 1 fighters) and attacked. The PCs managed to disarm them, defeat two of them, and send the others running. While trying to decide what to do with the ones they had caught (they managed to get the name of the leader with the vendetta) two of teh corrupt members of the sheriff's office showed up, demanding a bribe in exchange for not arresting the party for attacking the two men on the ground.

With the sheriff's men paid off, the party decided to track down the man with the grudge, and that's where we ended.

So, it seemed to work amazingly! The players really got in to the whole Dragon chess thing, and two of them remarked that they plan to take ranks in K:Gaming when they level up. It also gave rise to some pretty fun, and informative roleplaying. Now the PCs are terrified that Khellek and his crew will go up to teh abandoned mine office and find something they missed.

Now I just have to get them to the Whispering Cairn!

Here's an easy solution. Don't use XP.

For a long time I have always sworn by XP, (I believe in earning what you get) but have always run into problems with some peopel advancing faster than others, or not advancing fast enough for the adventure. So after a lot of soul searching (not really) I decided to do away with XP.

We started AoW last week. In preparation I went through the whole WC module and made a flow chart of the encounters. Based on that flowchart I figured out the best place for all the PCs to level up. I am going to do this with each adventure so they are always at the right place.

For item creation feats, PCs will get a number of "item creation" points equal to 10% of the normal XP required for their level (and they get to start with 50 points at level 1). Much like Action points, these IC points can not be carried over from level to level. Use em' or lose em'

Speaking of Action Points, I _am_ using those. Since I am not giving XP, using Action points allows me to give players something as a reward for good roleplaying (sparingly). On top of the usual uses, PCs can also trade in Action Points for extra Item Creation points if need be.

Get rid of XP, and you remove a lot of DM stress. No more squabbling from players over every single XP, no more worrying about PCs not being high enough for the next adventure.

:-)

Yikes! I didn't bother to print out the great post about Dragon Chess, and the link to it in the "Best of AoW Threads" post doesn't work any more because all the archived posts seems to have gone poof!

Did anyone save the contents of that post? It had rules for a Dragon Chess skill and how to play the game.

I had hoped to have one of the PCs invited to a "beginners dragonchess tournament" to introduce them to the game and to get some interaction with NPCs going. And I was hoping to do it tonight. :-(

Help! Thank you!

Deimodius

Ok, got it in front of me now. The text does NOT actually say that the elevator doesn't rise. It doesn't say that it _does_ rise, but neither does it say that it doesn't.

"Unlike the previous elevator, however, this one is jammed and is not likely to survive much experimentation.
"When the arrow platform points at this tunnel, a cacaphonous creaking of stone against stone emerges from below the green lantern..."

So, yes, the part about it being "jammed" could (and obviously in retrospect does) mean that it does not rise, but when I read it I imagined that there was something jamming the works beneath the ground that would cause it to collapse at some point after it rises.

NEway... the point is now moot.

Thanks, M.

Hmm... I didn't think to bring the issue with me to work today, and I am too impatient to wait until I get home.

Does it actually say in the text that it does not rise up and open? I guess I assumed that it did just like the other elevator.

Thanks for the answer though, it makes sense that way (obviously).

Sorry if this has already been covered.

I am not entirely clear on the elevator in the Cairn that breaks after 3 rounds and allows a swarm of beetles to spew forth.

Exactly what is the time line for this event? The text says the elevator will crash down the shaft on the 3rd round that the pointer points at this hallway, but it also says it takes 1 round for the elevator to reach the bottom of the shaft under normal use.

Assuming the elevator is just below the floor when it starts, on round one it appears and the doors open. A PC steps in, doors close, it descends. Does this take one round or two (one round to enter the elevator, one round to descend, or does it take only one round to enter the elevator _and_ descend)?

I've read over this again and again, but it seems to me that one PC can get in to the elevator and ride it to the bottom, at which point (if that takes 3 rounds) it stops working, but also blocks the path of the beetles, or it has 1 round left, rises to the top and subsequently crashes down again.

Either way, if the elevator does not crash down for three rounds, it seems that one PC is going to be stuck at the bottom with the beetles for at least one round, unless all the PCs stand around gawking at the open elevator for 3 rounds.

Here's another (sort of) Buffy reference; in the graphic novel "Fray" (written by Joss Whedon) about a future slayer, the new watcher is explaining things to her (Fray) and starts at the beginning where the demons, and monsters of magic, shared the earth with mortals.

There is a splash page with all sort of mosters (including the requisite dragon) and in the bottom left corner is a Bullette! When I saw it I yelled out "Ha! A Bullette!" at which point my wife looked at me with concern over her coffee and asked "What's a Bull-Ett?". I just mumbled something like "never mind" and went back to my comic. :-)

Okay, I'm gearing up to start the campaign.

So far I've had my players make characters (I asked them to make back ups, but they are stubborn about it. Don't ask me why, i can't figure it out).

The party is comprised of: Halfling Wizard, Elven Ranger, Dwarven Knight (PHB2), and a Human Rogue.

I _told_ them it would be a difficult adventure. I _told_ them that it had been compared to Tomb of Horrors, but still no one wanted to play a healer, or make a backup PC. Sigh. I might make up some quick back up PCs just in case and offer them during play. As for healing, the closest they have is the Wizard who took the "Arcane Disciple (Healing)" feat.

I've printed up the introductory adventure involving the abandoned mine office that was posted on these boards, and I've read through the first two adventures (I will read them again before play). I've printed up the AoW Overload .pdf, and I have all the handouts, etc.

I've also read the thread about Alistair Land and the problem of his age vs. getting as far as he did, and I like the idea of the bones under the passage to the Howling Face being his.

Other than all of those things, what are the most important things/changes I should do/make before playing (that haven't already been mentioned).

I know there was an errata thread started, but it doesn't seem like much errata was actually added.

Thanks.

Sorry if this was covered elsewhere. I'v eread through most of the "starting the AoW" and WC posts but didn't see anything.

Considering that the PCs start off in Diamond lake, and the adventure assumes they all know each other and have been in DL for a while, should they start with full or average gold for a 1st level PC, or should they start off poorer?

The adventure hook suggests that the PCs should check out the WC because there might be treasure that will help them "escape" the poor mining town, but if they start out with 1st level gold/equipment, what is _really_ stopping them from leaving?

I don't like imposing too much on my players, i want them to have some freedom in playing a character that they really _want_ to play, and I can always change the reasons for their being there, but does the adventure assume that they begin with 1st level gold/equipment, or does it assume they begin with _less_ than average?

This was going to be my next question. The adventure says the party should be level 3 by the end of the adventure. Was it Paizo's intention that the players should have enough XP to advance to 3rd level at the _end_ of the adventure, or _before_ the end of the adventure such that the last few encounters are done at level 3 instead of level 2?

Should the party start the next adventure at the beginning of level 3, or already on their way to level 4?

Perhaps you need to address the issue in game? Is there an NPC they deal with regularly who can talk to them about the occasional need for a tactical retreat? Maybe if they heard some wizened warrior say "You know, some times you just have to regroup and come back. Does ya know good to die today, when you can live and beat the b@stard tomorra!"

If you've already explained to them that the PCs might (and likely will) die at some point, that's all you can do. Either they will learn to be more careful, or those who don't like a challenge will stop playing. Unfortunate, but that's life. :-(

Well, for creating items that cost XP, I would grant PCs with item creation feats a number of "creation points" equal to 10% of the XP required for their current level. Any "creation points" not used are lost when the PC levels up, but they receive a new pool of points based on their new level. This was suggested by one of my players who also DMS, and who doesn't give XP, but has PCs level up after x number of sessions.

There is a good reason for doing it this way, at least in my experience (no pun intended). I believe that people should earn what they get in life, and that extends to XP. I also believe that XP _shouldn't_ just be awarded for killing things and over coming traps. In my previous campaign I awarded the usual xp, but I also gave "story" xp when certain things were accomplished. However I like a good "roleplaying" game (that _is_ what D&D is supposed to be) so I also give XP to award good RPing. Unfortunately it can be kind of subjective, and some people are more comfortable RPing than others.

Now, before someone accuses me of denying xp to people who "don't like to talk in a funny accent all night", I gave everyone a sheet that explained ways players could "describe" their actions without actual;y "acting them out" that would be far more interesting than "I cast fireball" and still be considered "roleplaying".

Unfortunately we ended up with some PCs who were farther behind in level, especially when a player couldn't make a session. I don't think a player should be awarded the same RPing xp as everyone else if they weren't there! It lead to some arguments and recriminations, so I figured "scr3w the xp".

Instead I intend to have players level-up at appropriate points through-out the campaign. I am also going to use action points, so I can reward good roleplaying with more action points, and for the item creationists, I will allow action points to be cashed in for item creation points. :-)

I am considering either not giving XP, and just telling my players when to level-up, or giving out xp and certain intervals such that they will level up exactly when I want them to.

I am also planning to use the "Abandoned Mine Office" side-trek from the forums as an intro.

If I _don't_ give XP, at what point in TWC would other DMs suggest I allow players to advance to Level 2?

If I _do_ give XP, has anyone figured out (based on CRs and ELs as written in the adventure) when PCs should hit level 2?

Thanks.

Use a DM screen. If the fights slow down, cheat with the die rolls. The players won't know. Just don't let them win easily, or they won't feel they've accomplished anything. Sometimes PCs die.

As for knowing if your players are being honest or polite, if you start worrying about that you are going to become paranoid for too often. Take what they say at face value, but also let them know that if anyone has any "constructive criticism" you are open to it. Then, if there was something they thought could be better, they might feel more free to say something.

Oh and watch for people building little towers of dice. That can mean boredom. ;-)

As for running AoW, I am also starting in Jan. To help myself, I've made a master-list in excel of all the NPCs, locations, monsters, and items/treasure. I've also made a bunch of little pre-printed "item/treasure" handouts to give players as they find stuff. This will save time with writing things down, and players feel like they've actually "found" something. Tell them to keep it safe because if they lose the handout irl, they've lost it in-game. ;-) Each handout has a reference to the encounter in the adventure so that when/if they "identify" an item you can refer back to the encounter.

You can download them from my little D&D site here:
http://deimodius.tripod.com/dnd/

The group don't sound adorable, they sound a little dense.

A lantern, any lantern, only fulfills it's purpose when it is lit. Failing everything else, how is it no one has thought of lighting lanterns... which are lanterns... and lanterns are meant to be lit?

No means of lighting a lantern? (How do they make camp fires?) Go back to town and buy some lamp oil (if needed) and a flint & tinder.

If your players can not realize on their own that lanterns _want_ to be lit (really, that's all they are usually expected to do), then maybe you need to make a Knowledge: Common Sense check for each of them. The first PC to succeed at the check suddenly "realizes" (the DM suggests) that maybe they could see something different if they lit one or more of the lanterns.

M.

Okay, but there are two issues there.

1. Combat with, and capture of Filge.

2. Taking items from Filge's home.

In the issue number 1, if the PCs have no jurisdiction (even though they "allied" themselves with the garrison) how does the garrison feel about them taking the law into their own hands? The garrison may be glad for the help, and do nothing, but depending on the legal system in your campaign, Filge could retain counsel and argue that since the PCs weren't deputized they had no right to enter his home, and not only should all evidence against him be thrown out because of an illegal search, but he might try to have the PCs charged with "Breaking and Entering" "Trespass" and even Assault. Unless the PCs have been given some authority by the garrison, Filge would be within his rights to demand these things, _unless_ you have a legal system that allows vigilantism.

In the second case, _even if the PCs have been deputized_, if they take items from Filge's observatory (money, magic items, etc) would Filge not have the right to have the garrison commander charge the PCs with theft?

Before anyone says "But Filge is a criminal, he should have no rights", remember that it depends on your justice system in your campaign. If you have a law that says "anyone who suspects a person is breaking the law can do whatever they want to stop that person, and the person relinquishes all rights" then my argument is irrelevant.

However, if your campaign world goes by the law that people are innocent until proven guilty, that all people are protected against theft, and that vigilantism is against the law, then whether or not Filge is an "evil" NPC is irrelevant.

Have any of you had to deal with the legal ramifications of the actions of your PCs in the AoW path? For example, even though Filge may have broken some laws (grave robbing, and animating the dead if you make it illegal) unless the PCs have been deputized by the local law, what gives them the right to go into Filge's observatory, steal his things and potentially kill him?

The PCs can't exactly use "self-defense" as a defense against attacking/killing Filge if they shouldn't have broken into his house in the first place! And what about "taking treasure" from Filge's home, especially if Filge survives?

Has anyone had to RP the result of legal proceedings brought against the PCs by Filge, or even Smenk?

I know that in the second adventure teh authour points out that the miners in teh Dourstone Mine aren't criminals/doing anything illegal, and specifically states that the DM should warn players about this before they enter the mine.

I hope other users will fund this thread as useful as I have so far.

I just finsihed typing up a couple of Excel spreadsheets to use when I start the adventure and thought others who are running The Whispering Cairn might be able to use them.

The first is a spreadsheet that lists all the NPCs, Locations, Items, and Monsters that appear in the advnture. The item list is particularly handy as I have included a location key with each item in the list. For example, P5:E9 beside an item means it is from Part 5: Encounter 9.

The item list in the spreadsheet is for the DM's eyes and corresponds to the second excel file which is a simple sheet of "cards" the DM can print and cut out. These cards include all the items from The Whispering Cairn and can be handed out to players as they find them. These cards do _not_ include item value, nor do they indicate to the player if the item is magical, but each card includes the location key that corresponds to the DM's item list from the first spreadsheet.

You can download both files from http://deimodius.tripod.com/dnd/

They are at the bottom of the page.

Thanks y'all. These have been very helpful so far. I look forward to seeing even more suggestions.

M.

Is it possible to create sub-forums in each adventure path forum so that posts can be organized based on issue/adventure/module? It would certainly make it easier for someone to be able to go directly to the posts relevant to the adventure they are running at the time.

Thanks

I will be (hopefully) starting AoW next weekend with a group of 4 to 5 very experienced players (each of us has been playing for 10 to 20 years).

What are the top 10 (or more) tips (in just a few sentences) that you would give me (and other DMs) who are going to run the AoW adventure path for the first time.

Thanks,

Michael in Oakville, Canada

I'm hoping either someone at Dungeon can help me with this, or that Wolfgang Baur himself might be able to answer my questions (I found an email address for him, but it doesn't seem to be working).

I have a few questions about Frostburn , specifically differences between the rules in the book, and the "lite" version of the rules included with the adventure "Raiders of the Black Ice" in Dungeon Issue #115.

I purchased Frostburn (great book by the way) and recently started running the "Raiders of Black Ice" adventure to introduce my friends to the new rules. While doing so, I noticed some discrepancies between the module and the FB book. I understand that changes get made after other things have gone to print, but I'd like to know which rules to follow, especially in cases where they appear in one place, but not the other.

Specifically I am concerned with the following:

1. The "Weather while travelling" chart from pg. 23 of Dungeon issue 115. I see that the categories of weather are slightly different in the FB book. Specifically the Heat Wave and Cold Snap entries were combined on one line, and the "Snow" entry (in the module) was changed to "precipitation" in the FB book (and has a different desctiption of its effects).

I also noticed that the "Snow level change" and "Tracking DC modifier" columns from the chart in the module were not included in FB. I have looked through FB many times and I can not find any mention of the affects of weather on tracking. As for snow level, the chart and descriptions of determining snow level in the module are different form those in FB. In fact, in FB the entry for precipitation does not indicate how much snow accumulates.

Further, in the module, it indicats how much snow melts in a heat wave, but FB does not indicate this (since it only indicates temperature fluctuations of +/- 10° F).

2. Overland movement; it seems the chart for overland movement is different from the chart in the 3.5 PHB. Specifically it gives distances travelled (with no snowfall) as 20' = 15 miles, 30' = 20 miles, etc. which does not jive with the PHB which has 20' = 16 miles, and 30' = 24 miles.

Not only is there this discrepacy compared to the PHB, but in the module it states that skis "allow full movement across... snowy surfaces...". If they allow full movement, then a human with speed 30' in less than 12" of snow should be able to go 24 miles, not the 35 miles stated in the chart on pg 35 of the module, unless skis allow _faster_ than full movement.

Thanks for any help you can give me. If you can't answer the questions directly, is there a better place to ask, or some way I can get in touch with Mr. Baur?