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Seltyiel

Daynen's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 292 posts (2,332 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 9 Pathfinder Society characters. 25 aliases.


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Andoran

well, I've been good. I haven't joined any new campaigns in almost two months. Now about 8 out of the 12 I was in have died.

I can no longer resist, and Durvin's songs are priceless. I want in. time to roll some scores.

4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 3, 2) = 10 8
4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 5, 6) = 13 12
4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 6, 3) = 19 16
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 4, 4) = 13 16
4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 5, 5) = 19 14
4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 3, 2) = 16 14
4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 4, 3) = 14 13

damn. first set too good. round 2.

4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 3, 3) = 13 10
4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 3, 4) = 16 13
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 5, 5) = 15 13
4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 6, 4) = 15 14
4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 5, 3) = 16 13
4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 1, 3) = 9 8
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 5, 6) = 16 14

OK, so 10, 13, 13, 13, 14, 14. 19-point buy. Hard to get much more balanced than that. I'll see what I can come up with.

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.

If we're sticking to wiz/sorc list, then I'd probably go with unseen servant. He'd be great for maintaining that immaculate appearance of my kitchen after I've made a big meal or a pot of soup stock, and 20 pounds is enough capacity to carry a lightly loaded backpack, or even an umbrella in the rain. He can get the door when I'm holding heavy groceries, and he can completely replace "the clapper" when it's time for lights out. the applications for an (effectively) unlimited duration unseen servant are legion.

One other big contender for me is expeditious excavation.

-Landscaping? Draw me a picture and gimme five minutes. Ten, tops.
-Secret tunnels below your house? Have fun with your new labyrinth; you won't even disturb the sewage lines.
-Swift retribution to the jerk who pushed you into the mud? THIS. IS. SPARTAAAA!!!
-Foundation settling and cracking the floor? Not in MY house!
-Mom wants a new flowerbed? Snap your fingers and it's happy Mother's Day.
-Car stuck in the mud? Fill in the puddles and off you go!
-SAND castles? Pfffft. That is SO last century.
-Ever own a dirtbike? ever want bigger ramps? YOU'RE WELCOME.

No dirty fingernails, no sunburn, no sore knees, and no noisy power tools pissing off the neighbors. Mankind wants to reshape the earth? This is your spell, my friend.

Andoran

As I toss around ideas, I find myself gravtiating towards a half-elf, probably a witch, unless you're leaving the 1st level class open until we reach the 400 point goal. What would you say the racial COM bonus is for a half-elf? +2? +4? Going for a fairly high comeliness with my concept.

Andoran

A question just occurred to me: of the classes we would graduate into, I see no summoner. Is that a purposeful decision? Did you just not feel like you had suitable ways to include them?

Andoran

Good to hear. I've fallen into the habit of applying for every recruitment that catches my interest, even though I'm in several active campaigns and in college. I think I just habitually rise to the challenge of creating characters within different rulesets and scenarios, regardless of acceptance, just because I can.

Either way, I'll digest the material so far and see if inspiration strikes!

Andoran

Interesting. Not a lot of 20th-level startups these days, and your idea of transcribing the details of our adventures resonates with some of own ideas. I think I might roll something up, but I have class shortly, so it'll have to wait. Color me interested, regardless; let's roll some bones.

4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 5, 3) = 17
4d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 3, 4) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 4, 2) = 18
4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 6, 3) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 3, 3) = 11
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 5, 1) = 13reroll of 1: 1d6 ⇒ 3 so a 15.

18, 17, 15, 15, 13, 11. Hard to complain. Got a +4, possibly +5 ouf of the deal even from level 1.

I'll be back later if I think of something.

Andoran

I may be a bit late to the party, but I find unorthodox settings and thought-out homebrew rules fairly irresistible, and would be interested to try my hand here if you're up for it, GM.

However, I do have class within the hour, so I may have to save any serious focus for the next 3-4 hours. Are you ok with letting another -potential- submission in, or do you think your current roster will leave your hands full?

Andoran

RL distractions? Happens to us all...

Andoran

Guh. Checking in if we're still on. Just lost focus for so long and couldn't even think about a character. Gonna hop back on that and see if I can get something cooked up here.

Andoran

Hmmmm...quite a motley mash-up of concepts for this one. I might have to give this a shot.

Andoran

I have a concept in mind for a character, but random generation is always intriguing. DM, if I let you random generate one for me, can I still choose to make one from scratch if the RNG just doesn't inspire? Or does that kind of violate the spirit of the game you're going for?

Andoran

I'm still kind of mulling over what kind of character to bring. So many options with this kind of setup, I can't really choose. I'll lend my two cents to developing the background if desired and figure out a submission once we're a little further along.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Dawnshire.

Being near a coast means a good chance of early sunrise.

Andoran

GAH. Went to revise my background and writer's block hit like a ton of bricks. Have to try again tomorrow with a clearer head.

Andoran

I liked that PF used less skill points and kept the same overall bonuses, at first, because it reduce the bookkeeping of skills, which was, in 3.5, quite a chore.

However, it does lead to the aforementioned problem in exchange...

Hard to say now which I would really prefer.

Working on my submission, BTW, just got home from parent's house, should probably have it up in a couple hours.

Andoran

I'm working on my first submission (and it's gonna be a bold one, I think) and I'm curious about some of your creation guidelines.

The 2 bonus skills per level are every level, correct?

Further, are the three additional skills at 1st level just one-time bonuses, not per level?

Lastly, for now, the package two benefits, specifically the honor's scholar: the wording seems somewhat ambiguous--you say "gain specialization in those skills and gain a point each." I'm wondering what you mean by specialization here.

Andoran

I am intrigued by your campaign description and would like to submit a character.

...As soon as I get something written up.

Andoran

An intriguing introduction. I think I may try to brew up something for this. Any idea of your recruitment timeline? I'm not at home so my resources (e.g. time) may be more limited.

Andoran

Need to develop a better line of feats for grappling with your teeth...

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Funny, I was actually hoping I'd find something on which to disagree with tormskull cause I was worried I was starting to feel sycophantic.

I find it entirely possible, and even logical, for a character to have a generally weak stat in which they have a very narrow talent, as in the klutz with good crafting hands above. However, two points still ring true here: first, it needs a good, compelling reason, which is something subjective and uncommon in players. Second, it should be the exception to the rule, and when ignoring mechanical deficiency is as good as securing advantage, it can be hard to convince some players to play the hand they've dealt themselves, so to speak.

I have just such an example of a low-cha character who I've described as "a waste of good looks," but she's fairly shy, lacks in assertion, and is very reactive, rather than proactive. She'll disagree with the plans of the group if she finds them to be an abhorrently bad idea, but unless queried, she'd be hard pressed to present any of her own, at least at this point. the campaign's still relatively young, but I've done my best to play it to the hilt.

Unfortunately, not nearly all players put forth the effort.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Point for Bluddwolf. Environmental interaction is another thing sorely lacking in MMO's that can work miracles to elevate your game. I transitioned from Dark age of Camelot to World of Warcraft when WoW was brand new. The difference in involvement and interactivity was ENORMOUS. The simple ability to right-click a chair and sit down; the power to mine a mineral vein or harvest an herb; especially those unorthodox quests which had you either use a mount or vehicle, or even transform into something else entirely, were just a breath of fresh air. Even just sitting down to munch a piece of bread for a minor buff was cool. Little things like this, that help bring virtual characters and real people just slightly closer, are going to be key.

Have wagons traveling between towns where a few people can just jump on and hitch a ride as it passes by. Don't think I've seen that in an MMO before. Include actual board/card games in the world so people can enjoy the taverns all the more. they need not have any greater reward tied to them than the gold players bet and the fun of watching them play out.

Andoran

Might be fun to go all wizard-y and transition into the local magic shop owner. Gain a couple levels and some starting capital, then pump out the wands and potions for PROFIT.

But first things first. gotta get a town off the ground, so to speak.

Andoran

Hmmm...I am nothing if not a fan of deviant campaign creation. Homebrew is basically a magic word to me, so I will most certainly keep an eye on this.

Any idea if we're starting close to water? Docks might be necessary, and they'd definitely give the mill extra work.

Also, a blacksmith might be quite a boon to a starting town either way. Two cents, y'know.

So, question for clarity: You mentioned shopowners and the NPC classes--commoner, adept, etc. Any ground rules for how exactly that's intended to work?

Are the "adventuring" classes precluded from being property holders to start? Are the NPC's meant to just have a more rooted role for now? I'm just curious what you're thinking on that topic.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Bear in mind the paladin's code is an individual thing, and is not explicitly spelled out as preventing him from having a little fun. If your DM didn't specifically restrict you from it, then there's nothing preventing a little cross-religion contact.

Wonder how safe you'd be starting a grapple at her tail? Surely she can't initiate much of an "act of passion" like that...

OR COULD SHE?

Andoran

Want a good idea for a fishing minigame framework? Look at Breath of Fire III. some of those fish would NOT be reeled in without a FIGHT. that was fun.

Andoran

I agree with the idea of determining your next level ahead of time, and working your character's behavior towards it for consistency's sake. I seem to recall somewhere an alternate rules system that awarded the character only a portion of the powers of his next level at more common increments than a whole level. He'd pick up his saves, then later the BAB and HP, then the skills, then the spells per day/class abilities--or something like that. Can't recall where I saw it though; somewhere on the boards I think. I found that idea intriguing for exactly that reason.

If you learn the similarities between BAB's, saves, and the commonalities, you could take it one step further; instead of asking them what class they're working towards next level, let them pick one feature at a time, only cutting off choices that no longer match up. they decide to take a +1 BAB first off? Then they can only take a full BAB class, and restrict their other choices to match. they pick up new spells per day? they're certainly not going rogue, monk or fighter, just for off-the-cuff examples.

In a way, that could kind of act as a funnel that lets them choose abilities piecemeal, and when they've reached enough XP and completed all the choices, you just mark on their sheet that they gained a level in X class. Quite a reversal from getting a level and writing the abilities that go with it; the level instead becomes end result instead of the sudden, abstract choice. They get new powers and stats at more regular intervals and in smaller chunks, they're not completely pigeonholed into a class choice from the outset until they "disqualify" for particular classes, and it eliminates the idea of someone "suddenly" gaining wizard spells or the ability to rage for no justifiable reason.

Conflicts and issues abound, I'm sure, especially with spells per day and calculating less than full BAB, but an intriguing idea nonetheless. Has the potential to mediate between choosing your crunch for advantages and evolving into a new path in life; YMMV.

Andoran

Well, figured I'd add disclaimer since membership seemed to be a trend in this particular thread; not that it would have stopped me, heh.

But AvenaOats has one of the right ideas of it. Experiencing stuff is one of the best parts of life, and I see no reason that something you do for recreation should shy away from things like that.

give us traders who take pelts and meat for coin or goods. Give us waterfalls to go over on a raft when we get too distracted watching the treeline go by. Give us trees to climb and vines to swing on. Give us instrumental minigames so those with a bardic mindset can actually leave their mark and maybe even compose their own tunes; hold contests and the winner might get his tune worked into the soundtrack. Give us festival planning tools so we can hold our own ingame celebrations for our deity, guild, wedding or whatever feels right. give the game the true right to be called "sandbox" by letting us choose our goals more freely and making tangible reasons to pursue them. Give us the ability to have no goal at all by letting us find more ways to goof off. Not every adventurer has to face the greatest challenges the world can throw at them and preserve the future of the material plane. some of us just...have some adventures.

Andoran

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Hope this isn't a goblin squad exclusive discussion; my opinion is pretty simple.

give us a lot more meaningful, interesting things to do than just killing stuff online. That's pretty much it. Allow less combative characters to have fun not getting into combative situations. the rest will almost write itself. Probably too many examples cited before me here, but that's the core. If the game continually comes back to killing stuff and the other activities become chores to avoid, then perhaps something has gone wrong.

My two cents, brought to you by yours truly. Carry on.

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Tabletop gaming cardinal rule no. 1:

Have fun.

Andoran

Hmmm...I think there's a caveat here. The EH feat says specifically for the purpose of using that power, use a number that is CL-2 in place of sorcerer levels. I think donning a robe would be a different "purpose" for your sorcerer levels, really.

The robe treats your sorcerer level as 4 higher, but...you don't have an actual sorc level, just a calculated number that's used in place of it exclusively for the purpose of EH.

Official ruling probably still pending, but...I kinda feel like they wouldn't interact like that. Not that I wouldn't use it if they did (I like sorcerers) but...I dunno, just strikes me as a very niche thing that wasn't intended. Sure, my wording still isn't verbatim what's in the book, but given the bigger nature of the game's design, I feel like that may be the safest, most accurate ruling for now.

Otherwise, you have a crossblooded sorc with two EH lines wielding four different bloodlines at higher level than his total CL.

Again, not that I wouldn't try it for laughs, but...

Andoran

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Succubus. Best Bestiary Entry, ~30 years running.

So much thought provoking information and mechanically deep abilities; you could plan entire CAMPAIGNS around succubi.

...Hmmm. Stay tuned.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tormsskull, I need to game with you more. You get it. It all boils down, to me, to a single phrase you've repeated, that succinctly collects the entire point (to me) of a role-playing game...

collaborative story.

This is what you are doing when you play any social RPG. don't believe me? Remember it next time one of your long time buddies brings up that one thing he did in that one session that made everyone bust out laughing, or that one encounter that almost TPK'ed your party because one of the players said something stupid in character and you smooth talked your way out with no dice rolls and the GM just went: "damn. that's good. I'll allow it."

A group of players and a GM exist to create memorable stories. there is no tangible reward for min-maxing; there is no leaderboard for highest DPR which awards cash prizes to the best optimizers every year (PFS notwithstanding; I've never participated, for reasons that should now be obvious.) the only thing anyone really gets out of this game, when all is really said and done, are fond memories. I don't know about you, but if the fondest memories I had of a game were nothing more than the totals on the die, I'd feel sad.

I put at least some effort into building a character sufficient to achieve something in game, but there's a lot to be said for building an imperfect character; not just for "roleplaying" purposes, but for the challenge. Anyone can win encounters when they're immune/resistant to the enemy's tactics and deal consistently amazing damage every round. Going that route feels like you've finished 'playing' the game long before the dice are actually rolled. Once you've discovered and proven the "optimal build," what's left to accomplish? It's a one shot deal, until new content is released, and then you end up in the same spot once you re-optimize, assuming it's even necessary with new splatbooks.

What do you do when you don't have max spells per day, or the entire line of weapon focus feats, or a khopesh? THAT's when the game gets interesting to me. It may be awe-inspiring to have a perfect Batman build, but always having the perfect answer prepared for everything can get contrived after a time. A MacGyver character, on the other hand, works with what he's got and responds to the situation. Cheesiness of either character notwithstanding, Batman has usually won before he meets the obstacle, which kind of leads to some weak plot devices; MacGyver sees the obstacle and finds a way to beat it, which can lead to some creative solutions and nail-biting tension in the meantime.

I'm of the mind that you really can have both, but not enough people try. My favorite kind of player is the one that can show me improvisation, natural responses to life-changing events, memorable personalities, struggle and conflict that we both fantasize about AND relate to. All too often, you see examples where the coin lands on optimization or immersion, and you find yourself disappointed.

But suppose you throw a coin enough times...

Andoran

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Oh dear god this thread is STILL GOING. YEEESSS.

demonic mixed martial arts tournament. champion gets a battle royale with multiple succubi. No matter the outcome, you win.

Andoran

No worries; I imagine it's hard to find anyone who wants to sign up for a PBP without a modicum of patience. When you get to it, you'll get to it, and we'll be right here.

Andoran

Vincent wins. I ever hold a Dwarf festival, I'm using all of those ideas.

ALL OF THEM.

Andoran

Valid points and counterpoints for both sides include:

1. Roleplaying is the player's job purpose at the table, not just the numbers on the sheet. Roleplaying is acting, like it or not. You wanna roleplay, you gotta play your role.

-BUT-

ACCURATE roleplaying, however, is something that it really helps to have backed up by your character's data. Otherwise, Pally McSavior over there gets away with murder because it's mechanically optimal. Not that a paladin's alignment is a diverse set of choices in the general sense, but when your play kinda matches up your recorded character, you get this thing called immersion; kinda the reason a lot of people are drawn to the concept of the genre.

2. Being a well-rounded character doesn't mean ignoring all functions that help you survive and be a meaningful member of the group.

-BUT-

Being forced to ignore all functions that DON'T help you survive, however, is a grueling demand for any character that's trying to be more than a greedy misanthropic sociopath (read: high DPR adventurer who just wants that next +1 to damage.)

3. The game is 100% defined by the players, and should not be allowed to be the reverse. If you do not mesh with your group or the game you're playing, it is important to take action, either by speaking up, or switching groups/games.

-BUUUUUUUUUT-

Anyone who's not lucky enough to be surrounded by a cornucopia of varied, interesting, friendly, and imaginative roleplayers is going to have a harder time finding "the right group," to say nothing of getting that group to play "the right game for them." Can't exactly play the right game if you're solo, aye? Downplaying this fact can come across as rather callous, since it is a reality that doesn't always have as many answers as one might think. I should know.

Just thought I'd kind of summarize the current discussion and throw my position in to boot. Enjoy.

Andoran

Theodore Berard

STAT BLOCK:
lv1 human sorcerer(wildblooded sage)

20 pt.
STR 10
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 18
WIS 12
CHA 10

TRAITS:
focused mind: +2 to concentration checks.
avid reader: may always take 10 on knowledge(arcana)

RACIAL TRAITS:
+2 to one score(int)
extra feat
extra skill per level
medium size
speed 30
languages: common, draconic, elven, sylvan, infernal
favored class: sorcerer (+1 0-level spell)

INIT: +2
HP: 13
AC: 12
BAB: 0
MELEE: 0
RANGED: +2

SAVES:
FORT: +1
REF: +2
WILL: +3

CLASS FEATURES:
bloodline: sage
arcana: use int for casting score, +2 knowledge(arcana) and spellcraft checks
bonus skill: one knowledge(dungeoneering)
bloodline power: arcane bolt--ranged touch, 1d4+1 force damage 7/day
cantrips
eschew materials
proficient with simple weapons

CLASS SKILLS: 2+4+1=7 per level
appraise
bluff 1+3: +4
craft
fly
intimidate
knowledge(arcana) 1+3+2+4: +10
knowledge(dungeoneering) 1+3+4: +8
knowledge(history) 1+4: +5
knowledge(planes) 1+4: +5
profession
spellcraft 1+3+2+4: +10
use magic device 1+3: +4

FEATS:
1: expanded arcana(0-level)
human: expanded arcana(0-level)

SPELLS KNOWN/PER DAY
0level: drench, light, ray of frost, spark, prestidigitation, mage hand, detect magic, read magic, message

1stlevel: 3 per day=color spray, grease

EQUIPMENT: 17gp 7s 6cp

chronicler's kit 40gp
quarterstaff
explorer's outfit (include scarf and wide-brimmed hat)
eyeglasses 5g
waterproof bag 5s
pathfinder's kit 12g (includes backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, clay mug, dagger, two fishhooks, flint and steel, sewing needle, signal whistle, 50 ft. string, 50 ft. thread, waterskin, 7 day's rations, whetstone)
5 sunrods 10g
cooking kit 3gp
mess kit 2sp
50 ft. silk rope 10gp
2 lbs. soap 4cp
blanket 5sp
5 alchemical grease 25gp

MOTIVATION:
Theodore has had a fixation with magic since he was a boy, always interviewing traveling wizards and wandering bards about the nature and methods behind their wondrous spellcasting. Whenever any sort of mage would stay in town for more than a night, he would seek ways to meet them, observe their magic firsthand, and glean a secret or two. He would gladly offer errands and favors for the more intractable visitors, and even paid to copy excerpts from any spellbooks, tomes of lore, or oral recounts of fantastic creatures, unnatural places, and ancient mysteries they were willing to share. His parents often thought him quite obsessed, but, as his habits never interfered with his chores at their inn and never brought any real trouble to their door, they grew to accept it.

The turning point arrived much later than one would expect, yet still much earlier than a parent would hope; on his seventeeth birthday, Theodore burst into the inn, charged straight up to his room and began packing. He gathered his savings and a few useful pieces of equipment into his backpack, and was only stopped by his father at the door, demanding an explanation. His answer was two words long: Dragon's Delve.

Having received the lore from an old mage who loved to share knowledge as much as Theodore loved to devour it, he was inexplicably gripped with an overwhelming need to find it and explore it. Everything about the location screamed to him of magic. The stories, the conflicts, the hauntings, the creatures, the legends--the tales he'd been told and the books he'd been shown all led to one sensation: the undeniable craving to plumb the depths and find the secrets himself. All the information he'd been given was like the aroma of a perfect roast to his nose. It was irresistible. the more he thought on the topic, the more restless he became. No amount of pleading or chiding could keep him from filling his pack and marching out to the general store for supplies, and no amount of odd looks or friendly warnings from townsfolk could stay his feet.

Theodore had an appetite for magic, and he'd caught the scent of an unimaginable feast. There was no stopping him now.

Sorry the info's not a standard stat block format; it just kind of spills out that way on a notepad by habit. Let me know if you'd prefer a reformat, if I should put up an alias, or if anything's out of place.

Andoran

The penultimate challenge--a dungeon that could be anything, house anything, and lead to unimaginable rewards...

WHY THE HELL NOT?

I shall return shortly with STATS!

Andoran

I gravitated towards PBP because it was rich with RP opportunity and character development; combat seemed to almost be an incidental thing.

Talk about flipping the script here, aren't we?

I think I might try to cook up something for this, if only for variety and perspective. Not worried about long games for the most part, and getting firsthand experience with a class 1-20 would be helpful for my future projects.

Andoran

While it can be echoed that certain features do beg for abuse, let me add that the same can be said for ALL CLASSES. Part of why the rogue feels "underpowered" to a lot of people is because there were so few cases of abuse to match the game-breaking potential of other classes. that doesn't mean it should be the final version, but I felt that worth mentioning.

That said, I find effect of bleed damage being a quasi-resource to be unusual and intriguing. Trading bleed damage for additional effects, and limiting it to rogue level, does offer a tremendous leap in consistency and options over the traditional sneak attacks that rogues relied upon.

Side note: I've always kind of felt that a bonus to damage that only applies when you hit an enemy who's already pretty much screwed was kinda...pointless, really. Your new version of sneak attack is, essentially, an auto-crit mechanic to replace the extra d6's, but I can see reasons for not just calling it criticals in order to avoid use with critical feats. On the other hand, those feats might just be what the doctor ordered...who knows?

The precision damage brings an odd conundrum: if it deals the lower of dex or level, it may create odd choices of rogues who do NOT want dex because it won't help their precision damage at all. Then, the same character will have the problem of not having enough dex because if he doesn't have it, the precision damage stops growing once it hits the DEX mod. In the end, it may solve itself in a way, but I foresee that kind of inverse relationship turning people off. Something to ponder.

As for talents, while I agree that some/many are underwhelming, my problem with talents is that some simply do not function RAW (underhanded comes to mind) or require feat and or/skill investment to function at all. Mind you, with your rewrite, some talents are actually completely obsolete. This may or may not be a good thing, depending on your perspective. In fact, your proposal for the precision and bleed damage mechanics almost necessitates a rewrite of several talents (they needed it already, but this design would make it quite mandatory.)

Either way, I fully encourage further review and revision; it's good to see a new idea on this front that proposes evolution, instead of band-aids and scapegoat suggestions. I can appreciate this. Carry on the good work.

And let's not get started on the ninja. That is, and should be, a different class for a reason. Different flavor, different purposes, different focus, different mechanics required. It should have simply been a class, not this confusing "alternate class" business.

Andoran

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Bladed scarf.

What. Don't gimme that look.

Andoran

It does seem that some rule systems go a bit unused at times; would be interesting and educational to see some of them brought out and dusted off, so to speak. I think I'll at least lurk for now and see how this goes.

Andoran

Question, DM: how long ago was Chitterwood burned down?

Andoran

Regrow a forest, ravaged by wars?

Druid time! I'll see what I can cook up!

Andoran

Oh my god I am so game for this. I shall return, hopefully shortly, with inspiration.

Andoran

Suctom race? gonna need a linguistics check for that one, buddy. Hope it's a class skill.

I kid, I kid.

But yeah, nonstandard is like my middle name. Curious as to what the DM has in mind before I toss anything out there, but I'll definitely dot for interest and lurk for the moment.

Andoran

I would love to apply; alas, I cannot and will not tolerate using any website that has anywhere from one to three simultaneous advertisement videos that can be neither muted, paused, or decreased in volume for their duration while they hog memory and prevent even simple scrolling. Yes, it was that bad.

Seriously, have you actually USED that link and seen it for yourself? the cacophony of cars, laundry detergent, and...I don't even know what else...it's migraine-inducing.

Andoran

Time to get righteous, it seems. I'll toss around some ideas, but may not have a submission ready for a day or so (I'm at folks house, probably for the evening.) Been waiting to lay into some demons, so I should be back in the very near future.

Andoran

Heh, monks don't rely on much else besides themselves; if a rogue is satisfied losing to anyone, it'll be a monk. ranger may be a close second, but divine spells, my friend. divine spells.

The reason the rogue is not completely overhauled is because, as mentioned, he can handle CR appropriate challenges if he's played well. The reason he is seen as weak is because other classes can be optimized, some of them casually, to handle far greater challenges. they have higher skill caps and, in some cases, lower skill requirements, in other words. the rogue's limits are harder to breach with optimization, and competency takes a greater minimum of effort to acheive. That's all that needs to really be "fixed" without sacrificing the flavor, and I feel like both camps would be perfectly happy.

Side note: that monologue was epic and you know it. Don't be hatin'.

Andoran

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I've been less able to playtest the ACG around a table than I'd like. that said, I have been able to try some fairly standard creation rules in my free time just to compare on paper, and I'm the kind of player who often gives more thought to the feel of a character before the mechanical side. Noteworthy, however, is the fact that I've learned to look at many games a little more like a designer of late, and my opinions and experiences are also colored somewhat by what I've played before. Minding all that, read on.

poison use:
Knowing poisons, and developing resistance to them, is a matter of survival; using them is a choice, and commonly decried as an evil act. the class is -NOT- alignment restricted, but poison use forces a very difficult choice of how, and how much, to use a basic class feature before your DM throws the alignment book at you. YMMV, but it doesn't quite feel right as a base feature. I feel like this should definitely be a talent.

sneak attack:
Sneak attack feels awkward in it's current place. A class feature that you don't get for four levels doesn't do a lot to really immerse you in the class or introduce you to playing it, unless you're always starting at that level. Level one features are important in my mind. they set the tone for the rest of your level progression. Maybe make sneak attack a talent/archetype. Alternatively, Table it at level 1, maybe scaling 1d4 at alternating levels. Ends up weaker than rogue SA overall, but doesn't take FOUR levels to show up. fun stuff now that doesn't pigeonhole your combat role, instead of an afterthought that comes much later. The 1d4 also allows you to make a talent to get the 1d6, if one is so inclined to specialize. Choices are good.

inspiration:
As it stands, inspiration is a limited resource that you can burn talents on to quickly make nearly unlimited. A planned investigator, with the right talents, will be able to use every point of inspiration for combat, have enough points to augment a dozen rolls a day or so, get bonus rolls to every skill he cares about, and still have talents leftover. for five talents, he can get a roll for almost his entire skill list without spending a point. Seems like inspiration could be it's own resourceless system that simply designates a skill every couple of levels, instead of competing with combat for your pool. Why not change inspiration to be a permanent bonus roll to certain skills, representing an investigator's speciality, selected at alternating levels with talents? As it is, a third of the talents involve removing the need to spend a point on a cluster of skills. With some form of the above idea, you can choose to have a few skills get multiple inspiration rolls, spread them out over all your trained skills, or stack all your inspiration uses on one group of skills; it'd allow focus or generalization. This would remove the need for some of the talents, and allow talents to focus on other effects. Maybe this and the current incarnation add up to six in one hand and a half-dozen in the other, but I felt it worth mentioning after some initial inspection and cursory evaluation. Take it as you will.

alchemy:
I feel like we should optionalize or re-flavor alchemy/mutagens somehow. I know the class is meant to be an advanced combo of rogue/alchemist, but this part really feels...weighty, in regard to bookkeeping versus gameplay. If this class spiritually replaces the rogue, (which seems to be a recurring opinion in my queries and travels,) we need a mundane skill-monkey; I feel like the more "magical' alchemy risks betraying that. Crafting alchemical items and knowing about them: mundane, intellectual, and cool. Taking elements of the alchemist and blending them with elements of the rogue: cool, and kind of the point of the class. However, having a spellbook, even an alchemical one: specifically magical. Seems like a possible chunk of design opportunity passed up. Also makes the investigator much more targetable than he needs to be. Extracts have to be prepared each day: take his formula book, and an investigator is extract-free, and fairly gimped, in 24 hours or less. It might make more sense to have a "spontaneous" preparation for extracts, if you're set on keeping that feature. Less formulae, again representing a specialty, but less luggage, too. We have a sorcerer and oracle for arcane and divine casters; why not a spontaneous variety of alchemy? That alone fills unused design space: a spontaneous chemist!

Trapfinding:
well, I've always felt a certain artificial crutch with the base rules on this, but...since inspiration can apply to perception, this feels...redundant? More so if my above inspiration revision is implemented and used by the player (which it almost certainly will, perception being what it is.)

WARNING: less class-specific, but applicable, rant:
One other thing that comes to mind when reviewing many of the talents: Level requirements for abilities that give a considerable boost. they seem somewhat artificial, in that you can't take them for a very long time, but then you go POOF I'm suddenly AWESOME at this...Seems a litle strained, doesn't it? I would suggest reviewing some talents, and allowing them to be selected much earlier, at the cost of waiting for them to scale up. Take the ranger's combat style, for an example. He doesn't suddenly get two extra iterative attacks and lose the TWF penalty all because he selected a high level talent he couldn't get for fifteen levels. He made a choice of style early and grew with it. Wouldn't this philosophy feel more natural to more classes? Seems to make sense to me, from a mechanical standpoint, a conceptual one, and a player satisfaction perspective. don't tell me you never wanted wild shape for a druid at level one, even toned down. That feature is the reason some people druids at all, but it's gated for several levels. I feel like the same scenario plays out here. Fighters get a bonus feat right out the gate, wizards and clerics get spells at level 1, barbarians rage, monks get wis to AC, etc. etc.

Sorry if the last section doesn't REALLY belong, but it just flowed from the original train of thought, so...it felt applicable. Let Jason and co. follow the cardinal rule as we do: use what you like, change what you need, and discard the rest! Have fun!

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