I would love to apply; alas, I cannot and will not tolerate using any website that has anywhere from one to three simultaneous advertisement videos that can be neither muted, paused, or decreased in volume for their duration while they hog memory and prevent even simple scrolling. Yes, it was that bad.
Seriously, have you actually USED that link and seen it for yourself? the cacophony of cars, laundry detergent, and...I don't even know what else...it's migraine-inducing.
Heh, monks don't rely on much else besides themselves; if a rogue is satisfied losing to anyone, it'll be a monk. ranger may be a close second, but divine spells, my friend. divine spells.
The reason the rogue is not completely overhauled is because, as mentioned, he can handle CR appropriate challenges if he's played well. The reason he is seen as weak is because other classes can be optimized, some of them casually, to handle far greater challenges. they have higher skill caps and, in some cases, lower skill requirements, in other words. the rogue's limits are harder to breach with optimization, and competency takes a greater minimum of effort to acheive. That's all that needs to really be "fixed" without sacrificing the flavor, and I feel like both camps would be perfectly happy.
Side note: that monologue was epic and you know it. Don't be hatin'.
I've been less able to playtest the ACG around a table than I'd like. that said, I have been able to try some fairly standard creation rules in my free time just to compare on paper, and I'm the kind of player who often gives more thought to the feel of a character before the mechanical side. Noteworthy, however, is the fact that I've learned to look at many games a little more like a designer of late, and my opinions and experiences are also colored somewhat by what I've played before. Minding all that, read on.
Knowing poisons, and developing resistance to them, is a matter of survival; using them is a choice, and commonly decried as an evil act. the class is -NOT- alignment restricted, but poison use forces a very difficult choice of how, and how much, to use a basic class feature before your DM throws the alignment book at you. YMMV, but it doesn't quite feel right as a base feature. I feel like this should definitely be a talent.
Sneak attack feels awkward in it's current place. A class feature that you don't get for four levels doesn't do a lot to really immerse you in the class or introduce you to playing it, unless you're always starting at that level. Level one features are important in my mind. they set the tone for the rest of your level progression. Maybe make sneak attack a talent/archetype. Alternatively, Table it at level 1, maybe scaling 1d4 at alternating levels. Ends up weaker than rogue SA overall, but doesn't take FOUR levels to show up. fun stuff now that doesn't pigeonhole your combat role, instead of an afterthought that comes much later. The 1d4 also allows you to make a talent to get the 1d6, if one is so inclined to specialize. Choices are good.
As it stands, inspiration is a limited resource that you can burn talents on to quickly make nearly unlimited. A planned investigator, with the right talents, will be able to use every point of inspiration for combat, have enough points to augment a dozen rolls a day or so, get bonus rolls to every skill he cares about, and still have talents leftover. for five talents, he can get a roll for almost his entire skill list without spending a point. Seems like inspiration could be it's own resourceless system that simply designates a skill every couple of levels, instead of competing with combat for your pool. Why not change inspiration to be a permanent bonus roll to certain skills, representing an investigator's speciality, selected at alternating levels with talents? As it is, a third of the talents involve removing the need to spend a point on a cluster of skills. With some form of the above idea, you can choose to have a few skills get multiple inspiration rolls, spread them out over all your trained skills, or stack all your inspiration uses on one group of skills; it'd allow focus or generalization. This would remove the need for some of the talents, and allow talents to focus on other effects. Maybe this and the current incarnation add up to six in one hand and a half-dozen in the other, but I felt it worth mentioning after some initial inspection and cursory evaluation. Take it as you will.
I feel like we should optionalize or re-flavor alchemy/mutagens somehow. I know the class is meant to be an advanced combo of rogue/alchemist, but this part really feels...weighty, in regard to bookkeeping versus gameplay. If this class spiritually replaces the rogue, (which seems to be a recurring opinion in my queries and travels,) we need a mundane skill-monkey; I feel like the more "magical' alchemy risks betraying that. Crafting alchemical items and knowing about them: mundane, intellectual, and cool. Taking elements of the alchemist and blending them with elements of the rogue: cool, and kind of the point of the class. However, having a spellbook, even an alchemical one: specifically magical. Seems like a possible chunk of design opportunity passed up. Also makes the investigator much more targetable than he needs to be. Extracts have to be prepared each day: take his formula book, and an investigator is extract-free, and fairly gimped, in 24 hours or less. It might make more sense to have a "spontaneous" preparation for extracts, if you're set on keeping that feature. Less formulae, again representing a specialty, but less luggage, too. We have a sorcerer and oracle for arcane and divine casters; why not a spontaneous variety of alchemy? That alone fills unused design space: a spontaneous chemist!
well, I've always felt a certain artificial crutch with the base rules on this, but...since inspiration can apply to perception, this feels...redundant? More so if my above inspiration revision is implemented and used by the player (which it almost certainly will, perception being what it is.)
WARNING: less class-specific, but applicable, rant:
One other thing that comes to mind when reviewing many of the talents: Level requirements for abilities that give a considerable boost. they seem somewhat artificial, in that you can't take them for a very long time, but then you go POOF I'm suddenly AWESOME at this...Seems a litle strained, doesn't it? I would suggest reviewing some talents, and allowing them to be selected much earlier, at the cost of waiting for them to scale up. Take the ranger's combat style, for an example. He doesn't suddenly get two extra iterative attacks and lose the TWF penalty all because he selected a high level talent he couldn't get for fifteen levels. He made a choice of style early and grew with it. Wouldn't this philosophy feel more natural to more classes? Seems to make sense to me, from a mechanical standpoint, a conceptual one, and a player satisfaction perspective. don't tell me you never wanted wild shape for a druid at level one, even toned down. That feature is the reason some people druids at all, but it's gated for several levels. I feel like the same scenario plays out here. Fighters get a bonus feat right out the gate, wizards and clerics get spells at level 1, barbarians rage, monks get wis to AC, etc. etc.
Sorry if the last section doesn't REALLY belong, but it just flowed from the original train of thought, so...it felt applicable. Let Jason and co. follow the cardinal rule as we do: use what you like, change what you need, and discard the rest! Have fun!
It should, as always, be re-stressed: in any tabletop RPG, your group takes what you want, changes what you need, and discards the rest. Paizo has not forgotten this rule. the rogue may no longer have a strong mechanical niche, at least in some expressed opinions, but it is virtually impossible to completely invalidate a class. This is because a class is more than a combo of features.
It is an identity.
the rogue is the everyman, who lives by his wits, his reflexes, and his ability to capitalize on the moment. He does not rely on magic, gods, massive armor, or even his own party members. He counts on himself to get the job done. that ideology fuels the existence of the rogue class, and it always will.
the investigator crosses the magical line. the slayer becomes a single-minded killer. The hunter brings a friend along. A purist rogue quite possibly shuns all these things as baggage--crutches, even, that will leave him dependent and weakened at the crucial moment when he is denied them.
Take a wizard's book or bonded object, and he's on borrowed time.
But a classic rogue? What can you take away to kill the rogue? the shadows? He still has his skills and reflexes. His armor? He probably won't miss it. His party? He goes black ops. Magic? He laughs. His weapon? He can still get sneak attacks with his hands from ambush. His poisons and potions? He just picks his fights better.
Now, RAW, I know some of this may fall away; the rules aren't perfect, and neither are we (y'know, human fallibility and all that.) but RAI, you have a guy who lives on guts alone; who looks at the wizard's book, the fighter's armor, and the cleric's deity, and just chuckles out a single word:
THAT is why people love the rogue. THAT is why rogues will never die.
I'm honestly surprised we don't have a divine clothie-caster yet. It was a fantasy archetype long before the cleric, and while it (conceptually) did add another squishy member to the party, it wasn't as MAD as a cleric can be, and allowed a character to focus more on the mystical, religious, and spellcasting aspects of their character without throwing the valor, resolve, and glory aspect into it so much.
I advocate versatile classes that can step into more than one role, and I'm a sucker for MAD characters, but they can only truly be appreciated in the face of more focused roles. A priest would fill an empty spot in the diagram, albeit not a huge or crippling one, and would give us better perspective on the existing classes we know and love so well; I would vote for the emergence of a proper priest class.
The arcanist, bloodrager, and brawler immediately jump out at me as classes I want to try, and have specific character concepts that they should fit marvelously.
I like the idea of the swashbuckler; the investigator sounds fun for a "batman" archetype; the warpriest sounds good for a holy crusade.
the others don't really gel with me, or just aren't as intriguing as those at first glance.
I'm starting to find inspiration, and I wonder: how appropriate would a lion shaman be in this campaign, specifically in terms of the question: would anyone be the least bit familiar with lions in the suggested geographical area? I'm kinda feeling like a melee druid on the champion mythic path (when it arises later.)
Or would lions be too far out of place in this setting?
Dwarves were never the first thing that drew me to any given fantasy story, but lately I find myself playing and appreciating them more. Let's kick chaos in the butt and see what it throws at us.
str2d6 + 6 ⇒ (5, 1) + 6 = 12
Alright, I can work with that. That array screams for a wizard, and since the roster currently seems to boast none, I shall step up to this challenge. Funny, I remember trying to roll up a dwarven wizard several games ago, but never getting it to fully form in my head. Round 2, here we go.
Think I'll take the "scholar of ancient ways" ability adjustments. Basically flips my dex penalty to a con penalty for MOAR CHALLANGE.
patron roll: 1d20 ⇒ 4
Patron votes: Forgotten Lore, Secrets Beneath the Mountain.
I'll see if I can crunch up some stats and fluff up the rest, and be back presently.
Now this might be a refreshing change of pace. I used to really dig WoW's lore and all that, but the game direction really soured, IMHO. This might be a good rekindling for me. As for faction, I'm not picky. Each side has pros and cons for me, as I've gotten a good look at both. Started a human paladin first, though, way back in vanilla.
Didn't catch this quick enough to throw in my suggestions, but I'm intrigued nonetheless, so let's roll them bones.
Variant Ability rolls:
Alternative Feature rolls:
Hmmm....interesting array of rolls here. And I thought making a character based on rolling ability scores was tricky. And we're level 4? Room for a little fun there. I'll see what I can cook up.
Why Rob, WHYYYYYYYYYY must you present me with these DILEMMAS!?!
I'm starting college within the WEEK! I cannot responsibly keep up my obligations, maintain my educational focus, hold down a job an--ok, hang on. Haven't got to play a summoner yet, magical academies hold a special place in my heart DESPITE the cultural plague that is Harry Potter, and the only child campaign I was in fell through almost overnight. You couldn't have made it much more compelling unless there was an overlying Draconic theme on the first line...
I'm physically and mentally incapable of passing this one up.
STOP FEEDING MY ADDICTION FOR AMAZING CAMPAIGNS!!!
TES automatically wins.
Here's a thought, though. For added immersive flavor, try requiring new characters to roll randomly for their starsign, AFTER they've chosen or rolled for their race. The stars under which you're born would realistically be beyond your personal control; mechanically, it can discourage min-maxing and inspire dramatically varied characters. I suggest this primarily because, like their original in-game incarnations, the star signs are horribly lopsided in terms of mechanical value, and some I can guarantee will never be chosen.
Of course, this can quickly sour player experiences, so get their agreement before ruling this in.
Things I would like to see in PF2.0, in no particular order:
1: Racial progression options. Let me advance my racial abilities, not just my wizard spells. You can't necessarily tell that my guy in normal clothes casts arcane spells at a glance, especially if I don't flip through a spellbook all day, but you can damn sure tell from the ears and slight build he's an elf, and I would like ways to explore a character's racial heritage more as a type of progression. Paragon levels in 3.5 touched on this, but it still didn't feel quite right. Investigate further, please.
2: Scaling feats. If we're keeping feats, we need to find ways to eliminate feat taxes, ASAP. There is absolutely NOTHING as frustrating, tragic, and senseless as taking a feat you DO NOT WANT, for flavor or crunch reasons, but that you MUST have for the feat that PERFECTLY rounds out your character and tells your story. Also, feats that provide nothing but bigger numbers? Gotta go. Seriously, either redesign/streamline the feat system or toss it.
3: Less base classes. There is a reason the rogue, and to a lesser extent, the monk, are left out in the cold. there are ELEVEN core classes, EIGHT additional base classes, and three variant classes that are different enough to be called classes of their own; in the case of the samurai and ninja, they actually OUTSHINE their original classes mechanically. Streamline/blend the class list and find ways for each class to branch out more freely, WITHOUT pigeonholing themselves into a single function, outside of which they absolutely suck. Make all these named/themed variants of a class nothing more than that: variants, builds, easily obtainable through certain initial choices.
4: less punishing specialization in general. I understand that in a party of four or more, everyone has a niche to fill, but they are all still people, and no one I have ever met, heard of, or read about, is as one-dimensionally skilled as many characters end up. I'm not talking about the jacks-of-all-trades; they exist too and they are their own niche, in a way. I'm talking the insectlike overspecialization that comes from, say, min-maxing STR, cramming in weapon focus and weapon spec(greatsword) and the greater varieties, and handing the dice to someone else when the DM says "make a _____ check." Character roles are polarized; you're either specced in something and suck at everything else, or you suck at everything. This also relates to no. 3 above. Not realistic, not as fair as you might think in practice, and not fun. Solution needed. And don't come back with the balance-mechanics-tactical-party role-overpowered, left brained retort; we've all heard it. You want a game where every character fulfills one role and functions as a perfect unit to destroy every tactical challenge they encounter? We have games for that--may I suggest Final Fantasy Tactics or Panzer General (both great titles I genuinely enjoy in their own place.) You want to BE one of those genetically specialized soldier ants whose only purpose in life is to bite the enemies of the hive? Bad news...you were born as the wrong species.
I want to roll up a C H A R A C T E R and go on A D V E N T U R E S.
Okay, deep breath...and exhale.
I'm in 9 campaigns. I shouldn't get into anymore.
I'm fighting the urge to drop some I have already.
I'm going to be starting college soon, and working soon after that. I won't have time!
I DO NOT need to get into any more campaigns. I NEED to stay away.
*reads recruitment thread.*
Damnit. I really am addicted. BRB.
Hmmmm. Unusual recruitment guidelines. Mixed feelings and first impressions. Rolled stats are always good for inspiration. Why not? Let's have a go at it.
Set 1's the clear winner. I'll check back if inspiration strikes.
Yeah I'll also have to wait for mythic release before I make any solid calls, but this campaign may actually be a very good challenge for an existing character. Short version is a kitsune sorceress who's growing extra tails and plans to create a nation for her people so they don't have to hide in plain sight. Maybe the feat line is underwhelming, but she would most certainly be dancing on that fine line between good and evil.
And hey, maybe the mythic rules would balance out the weakness of the magical tail feats. You never know.
Only got a slight preview of the mythic rules so far, but I'm in for this. I have a couple characters pre-existing that could work well, but I may be struck by inspiration between now and then.
In all likelihood though, I will be starting college soon, so I may be limited to a post a day or the like, as opposed to my regular check ins now.
Hmmm...Never played 1st edition, but I do recall common opinions in my neck of the woods, mainly being that later editions opened up the game quite a lot from the fairly "railroaded" character development of 1E. Just opinions I've heard, mind you; Not sure what to think myself. I maintain my curiosity and will fence-sit on that particular topic for now.
118: A schizophrenic summoner whose eidolon is an exact duplicate of him and either speaks in complete harmony or finishes his sentences, and vice versa; they both "cast spells" simultaneously; hilarity and confusion ensue when the personalities diverge.
119: a teenage summoner's eidolon resembles a succubus without the life-leeching power, but the eidolon is incredibly shy and naive. Fill in the blanks for amusement.
120: a heretic evolutionist goes around making his eidolon impersonate well-known depictions of deities to mess with the faithfuls' heads, BECAUSE HE CAN.
After poring through pages of discussion, I will first put forth my personal stance on the matter. Fun first, balance second. Regrettably, without a DM and a group with the same mindset and a little skill at planning and game management, those priorities can easily be muddied and mixed. In light of the prevailing opinions, (customizing is fun, but being forced to specialize to compete is not, and defeats the purpose of being easily customizable,) I have a suggestion. Let's call it an archetype for now, and see where the discussion goes, shall we? Without further ado, I give you...
The man-at-arms will saves follow good progression for +12 rather than +6 at lv 20. this replaces the bravery feature.
armor training: Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to move with his armor, rather than against it, increasing its efficiency through his diligent technique, and reducing its strain on him through physical conditioning. The fighter gains an additional +1 armor bonus to AC and DR1/- when wearing that armor type. Both bonuses improve at 7, 11, 15, and 19. The fighter also reduces the armor check penalty for this armor type by -1 at each increment, and can sleep in any armor for which he effectively has 0 armor check penalty without becoming fatigued. Any armor for which he has no armor check penalty also does not reduce his base speed. (note: mithral and ACP reductions can stack with this, allowing him to eventually sleep, and move at full speed, in mithral full plate. Run speed is still reduced; plate mail still weighs something, no matter how comfortable you are with it.) This replaces normal armor training and armor mastery.
Weapon training: Starting at 1st level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.
Every four levels thereafter (5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th), a fighter becomes further trained in another group of weapons. He gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a weapon from this group. In addition, the fighter can increase the bonuses granted by any of his previously selected weapon groups by +2. Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.
A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from any of his selected groups. This bonus also applies to the fighter's Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from any of his selected group. This replaces the bonus feat at 1st level and is otherwise identical to weapon training, but at 1st level.
Weapon Mastery: At 20th level, a fighter chooses one weapon from any group that he has selected with weapon training. Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding this type of weapon. this supercedes the normal weapon mastery.
Now, let's have a run down of the effective changes, from an overarching view.
The fighter gains more options for effective weaponry throughout his career due to earlier weapon training, at the expense of that variable 1st level combat feat which he's going to spend on combat ANYWAY. Further, notice he can now CHOOSE which weapon group to improve at each increment, much like the ranger's favored enemies and terrains. Just makes sense to me; Even the most generalist fighter is likely to find a general style of weapon he's talented with early on. It prevents a few 1st level feat mistakes in exchange for something reliably good, and it's still a choice that helps define your fighter's style, which is also good. One might notice that the overall total bonus, spread out over all the progression, is actually less; a net gain of +13 across the groups, as opposed to the +15 it would be with the normal scaling. A slight trade-off for the ability to pick and choose.
Next, armor training changes from something that only major dex builds can take advantage of to something that every fighter can use, regardless of armor style. It does mean that high dex builds are not quite as appealing unless you shy away from heavy armor, but it also means they aren't as necessary to get those phenomenal AC scores. TWF builds are more appropriate for medium or light armor now, since they're all in the +2-4 max dex range before enhancements. Even heavy armor can, of course still go TWF, but you're just going to appreciate that mithral full plate all the more. It may be a slight discouragement for archers who still heavy armor, but then again, that only makes so much sense to begin with, heh. It also means you can finally start sleeping in some armor without burning more feats and traits just for that express purpose. Note that armor mastery goes bye-bye, as it's basically rolled into armor training in smaller increments. Again, just a vote for practicality. Also note that since the new armor training increments a final time at 19, there's no gap in the class features table! Yay!
giving the good will saves was just a practical choice. Bravery is limited by just about everyone's standards from what I've noticed, and especially in light of arguments about the balance of one-good-save classes to the fighter, I decided to throw it in there and see how its received.
Due to the overall increase in the fighter's options and basic functionality, removing the 1st and 20th level feats not only seemed a fair trade, but it cut down on the excessive planning present in some builds, ensured a more consistent power progression regardless of feat choice, and as a tidy little insignificant bonus, ensured that each level only had one feature on the table. Hah. Nice little fringe benefit for the OCD or somesuch, I guess.
Final words: No idea if the archetype name exists somewhere, and it doesn't matter, since this is theoretical and was conjured up within 15-20 minutes; wasn't watching the clock real close. Read, compare, think, and discuss. If you're adventurous, and you should be, since you presumably play pathfinder, feel free to share with your next DM and try it out. Who knows? Maybe it'll "fix" the fighter once and for all, maybe not.
Favorite spells? Oh god yes. Fun time. In no particular order, just as I remember them:
Produce flame: for a 1st level spell, this is amazingly versatile. It's a torch! its a touch attack! its a sniper shot that sets things on FIRE. Best of all, since the number of shots is directly dependent on duration, extend spell doubles your ammo! Made a 3.5 halfling druid who had an absolute BLAST throwing these everywhere (yes it counts as thrown.) Just fun.
Call lightning storm: PFFFT to optimizers. Have you noticed the RANGE on this thing? Get yourself a spyglass and you can be zapping a BBEG from across the PLAINS with this spell. Throw in some natural (or not) inclement weather for extra shocking power and toss enlarge on to snipe people from the next province over.
Entangle: This spell. The laughs. Once cast it on a buddy who was about 10 feet away from being surrounded by orcs on all sides. They all made the save. He didn't. Henceforth, "Darth Tangler" was my nickname with that group. Good times.
Ice storm: I love cold weather, snow and ice. It's kind of my thing. A spell that just drops icy death on everyone just conjures all sorts of awesome images of shattering ice shards everywhere.
Prestidigitation: The ultimate parlor trick. With this alone, any class could seem like a magician. Mess with colors, dirt, play with coins and pins, and use your imagination for all sorts of jollies.
Snapdragon fireworks: dragon stuff is awesome. Direct damage that misses allies is awesome. Spells you can keep doing damage with, without using your standard action each round? Awesome. Target a massive range in any direction, generates brief light, dazzles targets, and gets more shots as you level up? Extend spell for double the awesome. Spell that you can use for fighting OR for putting on a show? Well that's just peanut butter in my book.
Goodberry: (Lots of druid spells I'm noticing. Odd, since I'm more of a sorcerer fan.) Rations? Please. Bushel of berries and we're good for the week. Bear ate everything in your backpack? find a bush, wave your hand, and enjoy the bite sized feast!
Winds of Vengeance: No projectiles. Melee punished. Flight, underwater or in space, in a movable sphere of tornado force winds? 9th-level druid slot, standard action. Being able to tear down a CASTLE by walking through it? Priceless.
Stone/wood/snow/whatever shape: multiple spells, same reason. Shaping stuff at will is empowering, and allows you to do simple stuff (i need to sit. poof, the cavern wall now has a protruding chair.) to completely changing the situation (Pile of logs? Or...POOF. Instant cabin! with a few casts, anyway.)
Form of the dragon:I don't have to explain this one. I really shouldn't. YOU TURN INTO A F&$#ING DRAGON! WHAT DO YOU WANT!
Hmmm...Need to make a toon who can cast all these...empyreal sorcerer/druid multiclass, GO!