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Half-Orc

Davor's page

1,356 posts. Pathfinder Society character for Manijin.


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Osirion

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It depends on the paladin. More fragile, or otherwise more Fey-like motifs would work well with a Unicorn, while the more traditional Paladin works better with a Pegasus or Griffon. I DO like the idea of a Paladin riding a Warg, though, with the intention of redeeming him.

Osirion

Fey and Arcane bloodlines are probably what you're looking for.

Alternatively, you could do something a little... stranger. Use the Race Creation guide to create a Faerie Dragon "race". Get as close as you can without any of the bloodline stuff, including flight. Then, give him the draconic bloodline. Replace his first ability with the Fey bloodline ability, and have him grow old enough to fly, resist sleep, and all those cool things dragons get to do naturally as he levels to simulate his draconic nature. Sub out the spell list for the Fey one, and boom! Faerie Dragon bloodline.

Osirion

Majuba wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
What about damage over time effects, like Acid Arrow?

If you're not making an attack roll, you're not dealing smite damage.

As a background, Smite used to apply only to a "normal melee attack", in 3.5. Obviously that's changed to include ranged, but there are several parts of the current ability that make it very clear it's talking about weapon attacks (which generally get extended to spells with attack rolls).

  • It says "attack rolls... and... damage rolls"
  • It says the attacks bypass DR
  • It talks about a "successful attack"

    If you want to smite with a fireball, create a custom metamagic feat.

  • It's nice that you feel that way, but the ability says "all damage rolls". You COULD take it out of context by negating the "all" to make it fit, but as written Smite Evil applies to ALL damage rolls, and damage rolls from a spell are still damage rolls.

    Osirion

    It's every damage roll, so yup, every time you roll for damage, including damage caused by DoT effects. That's how I'd rule it, anyways.

    The only exception, I think, would be damage for catching on fire and bleed damage, as that damage isn't a part of the damage the Paladin deals, it's a secondary effect with a (typically) fixed amount of damage rolled by the creature. But that's a little iffy, so /shrug.

    Osirion

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    The thing is, this kind of thing is the ONLY way that sneak attack becomes strong. I've never liked the whole volley/sneak attack rule because all it does is nerf something that didn't really need nerfing. In order to gain the benefit you have to spend a HUGE amount of money on a wand of scorching ray CL11, or you have to multiclass into Arcane Trickster. There are a few other combo's that could pull off something like this, but they're very few, and have such low BAB that they make the Wizard look like a capable combatant, to the point that touch spells are basically the ONLY way you're going to hit ANYTHING. Just look at the average damage of a full barrage of Scorching Ray alongside Sneak Attack damage at 12th level (the earliest you could get it via Arcane Trickster):

    12d6 scorching ray +15d6 sneak attack. Seems like a lot, right? But...

    Ignoring the work that goes into the setup of this combo (You basically need Greater Invisibility against foes with no way to detect you that can be sneak attacked and aren't resistant to or immune to fire damage), you average 94.5 damage, IF all of the rays hit, and you have a limited number of times per day that you can use this setup. Compared to what a martial can do on average all day, it's not THAT impressive.

    Osirion

    Yeah, I have serious issue with that FAQ. As written, a spellcasting rogue was one of the best ways to consistently pump out decent damage. Making 3 sneaky touch-attacks in a round was a pretty darn good standard action, even if it didn't match the full attacks of optimized melee. It meant that grabbing the spell-like ability traits was actually kind of a good idea. Heck, it meant that Arcane Trickster was actually a REALLY cool, effective, and versatile prestige class that provided bonuses that amplified both its base classes.

    I'd never use this FAQ anyways, so :P

    Osirion

    I, for one, wouldn't mind allowing wizards to cast healing spells if it were a rare event. "You want to prepare Cure Light Wounds instead of Color Spray? Be my guest..."

    I'd make them transmutation spells, and remove the positive energy descriptor from them.

    Osirion

    There are some balance reasons that certain archetypes are tied to specific races, though. You'll notice that elves in particular get some pretty awesome archetypes for combat classes, but elves are also typically a weaker choice for those classes, so it balances out a bit.

    Elves also get one of the best Oracle archetypes EVER, but they are usually a rather poor choice for Oracle.

    Really, despite this, it's kind of a case-by-case basis. Sometimes a racial archetype should just be open to the public, and sometimes you have to consider the balance inherent in the race and archetype combination. Really, it just requires a bit of discretion.

    Osirion

    Can you point me to this FAQ? I can't seem to find it.

    Osirion

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    It also sounds to me like part of the problem is moral relativism, and that the idea that morality might be fixed inhibits character creation with the system.

    I would argue that morality isn't relative, and in that way the alignment system very closely mimics reality, even if it is typically flawed to a massive extreme in practice.

    Osirion

    I'll just chime in and say that I actually like the alignment system, but I do think that the idea of alignment-based classes is a little bit screwy though. I'd prefer that, rather than have alignment-restricted classes, we had archetypes or bonuses for existing classes which rewarded them above and beyond normal classes for adhering to specific alignments. Make the Paladin a universal archetype that rewards the player with specific benefits for adhering to the Paladin Code. Same goes for some of the other Alignment-restricted guys, and I think we'd hear a little less QQ about it.

    Osirion

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    It looks like the implication is that there are no limitations on how high it can boost a familiar's level, which makes sense, given their relatively low individual power compared to animal companions.

    Osirion

    It all depends on how strictly you read into the paladin's code. Some would say that acting in self-defense would be considered a justified killing, others would argue that you should have subdued your assailant and at least offered him the chance at redemption.

    I would ask your DM to explain his views on how the paladin code works, come to a compromise on how to avoid future accidental incidents like this, and ignore this incident as it was obviously unclear that you two were on different wavelengths about how the code worked.

    Osirion

    My favorite Inquisitor is the Dwarven melee Inquisitor with Steel Soul and the Spellkiller inquisition. Spellcasters, eat your hearts out. :P

    Osirion

    Orfamay Quest wrote:
    Davor wrote:
    Alright, I'm gonna clarify this really quickly. Sneak attack requires an attack roll to work.

    SO not true.

    d20pfsrd.com wrote:


    You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.

    Okay, there's ONE loophole, mister snarky pants. :P

    Osirion

    Alright, I'm gonna clarify this really quickly. Sneak attack requires an attack roll to work. This has been clarified by the dev.s several times. That's why sneak attack works with something like Scorching Ray, but not Magic Missile UNLESS you have the Arcane Trickster ability.

    A Paladin's smite evil, however, simply adds to damage rolls, and this is one of those times where individual instances of damage in a spell are actually REALLY important. Magic Missile fires individual missiles, which means that each missile would gain the bonus smite damage, since they are resolved individually from each other, just like each ray from a Scorching Ray would gain the damage. As written, you could apply smite damage to an area spell, but only smote targets would take the bonus damage.

    How you would get the two (Magic Missile and Smite Evil) CONSISTENTLY, with decent power behind each, is a bit of an issue, as going into the Chevalier prestige class SERIOUSLY hurts your spellcasting, but it's an interesting idea.

    Ooo! You could be a Samsaran, though. One of the few ways I can think of to do it.

    Osirion

    Huh. I missed alluring. Well, there ya go.

    Osirion

    If you are willing you can be a Half-Elf and pull it off. They're a good race, can get free exotic weapon proficiency for a cool weapon, and there's a trait that gives you a 0th level spell-like ability with caster level based on your character level. Full arcane strike progression. As a human, you don't really have any decent options in that regard.

    Osirion

    Why not just remove the stat bonuses for being a lycanthrope? You can keep the flavor, maybe gain a bonus to carrying capacity, combat maneuvers, and the natural weapons, without the insane stat growth. Much easier fix, and you get to keep your flavor.

    Osirion

    Bard: Versatile Performance :P

    Osirion

    We need this guy here.

    Suave Gentleman

    Osirion

    I remember that being confusing. You'd think they mention it in the character creation rules, but I think I recall it being stated in the Feat section for some reason.

    Or possibly, if you're using a hard copy, right before the Barbarian entry in the classes section.

    Osirion

    andreww wrote:
    Davor wrote:
    andreww wrote:
    Hex is single target, I prefer my control to hit everything on the board. Thundercaller means a heavy focus on charisma or your DC will suck meaning you make significant sacrifices in other areas.

    Yeah, Bards typically suck with high charisma.

    Oh wai...

    As it happens they do. It is rarely worth it to prioritise Charisma as your best stat. Bards simply do not get enough spell slots to play them like they are primary casters. A level 10 Bard has 1 4th level spell and 3 3rd level spells as a base. That is very few to work with over the course of a day and few of their other abilities work from it. Obviously you are not going to dump it but you rarely need more than a 14 at level 1 and can get buy with less. One of Str or Dex combined with Con are equally important for them.

    Bards are not full casters and trying to play them like they were is going to cause you real problems.

    Which is fine, unless you're playing an archetype like Thundercaller, Street Performer, Magician, or Sound Striker, all of which have abilities beside their spellcasting that can GREATLY aid allies at the cost of using Bardic Performance, which you get more rounds of, and increase the DC's of, with a higher Charisma score. Heck, a Wand of Fireball is just an "Okay" choice to anyone except a Magician.

    Now, I'm not saying that you ALWAYS want sky-high charisma as a bard, and more often than not having 14 or so is fine. But if you want to use some really awesome abilities to their best, you want a massive Charisma score, and Thundercaller, with a ranged, AoE stun (and the ability to grant allies bonus sonic damage with the Discordant Voice feat) that you can use many, MANY times at higher levels, I think it's fair, and even beneficial, to trade something like ranged or melee combat for it. It's archetypes like these that ALLOW you to really abuse having a high Charisma score... plus your enchantment and illusion spells are tougher to resist, which is nice too.

    Osirion

    andreww wrote:
    Hex is single target, I prefer my control to hit everything on the board. Thundercaller means a heavy focus on charisma or your DC will suck meaning you make significant sacrifices in other areas.

    Yeah, Bards typically suck with high charisma.

    Oh wai...

    Osirion

    Also, Witches' Sleep Hex and Thundercaller bard. THAT'S some rocking lockdown.

    Osirion

    Well, being a combat buffer/utility guy can be done, but it takes a bit of work on an Inquisitor. If you can gain access to the Madness sub-domain, you get one of the best bad-touch abilities IN THE GAME, even if you don't get the domain spells. Other than that, there are other useful things you can do, like the Steal, Disarm, and Dirty Trick combat maneuvers. Solo teamwork feats mean you can take something like Coordinated Maneuvers for an additional +2 bonus to all combat maneuvers, and a timely disarm or dirty trick can REALLY hamper your foe.

    Even if you're not planning on doing much fighting, you might consider having at least a one-handed weapon available. You can get the Menacing enchantment to give flanking allies an extra +2 bonus to attack rolls while doing your bad touches (heck, a gauntlet would count as a weapon if you want to truly seem "unarmed"). I would also recommend the Branded for Retribution feat. You can make a melee touch attack by expending bane rounds to give your allies that bane bonus against the enemy. It's a pretty sick additional +2 to attack, +2d6+2 damage. You could also take the Spell Bane feat to make your spells harder to resist while using your Bane class feature. The Extended Bane feat would also go a long way towards maintaining your uses as efficiently as possible. Shared Judgment also goes a long way towards having some stacking buffing potential that's specific to your situation.

    IN ADDITION, the Preacher archetype, while causing you to lose your Teamwork feat fun, gives you the ability to further buff or debuff. You don't get many uses of the ability, but the effects are AWESOME.

    Anyways, that's all I can think of at the moment. With a focus on high Wisdom, decent Charisma/Intelligence, and a passable Strength score with which to make touch attacks, you should be pretty combat capable. Something like a:

    14 - 10 - 12 - 12 - 16 - 11

    Should work. Put your attribute bonus into Wisdom, first stat point goes to Charisma, the rest in Wisdom. But yeah, there ya go.

    Osirion

    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    I'll tell you what, OP.

    Make this character. Play this character. THEN you can come and complain about it being OP. Until you've used a concept like this in practice, and seen how enemies and the DM react to it, you can't really make judgements like that.

    It reminds me of people who complain about rogues being underpowered.

    Osirion

    Also, Kobolds are the only race that you can go into Dragon Disciple with pure levels in Oracle or Inquisitor. Inquisitor wouldn't make ANY sense, but Oracle could be pretty cool.

    Osirion

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    I'm just gonna chime in for the Cavaliers, because I actually really love the class.

    Cavaliers can do a LOT of cool things that most other pure martials can't. They get a mount, which is... meh. If you take the Beast Rider archetype, that gets you access to some cool mounts that can really clean house without you, which is really what you want.

    The big thing, though, is the order abilities. Some of them may seem lackluster at first, but think about it:

    A cavalier of the Order of the Lion can grant allies a +Cha to damage and +2x Cha to attack rolls for one round, every combat of every day, and they keep +Cha to attack rolls for several more rounds. If you pump Charisma up (and with this build, you should), you can easily give your allies HUGE bonuses to attack and damage, on top of your Banner.

    Order of the Dragon gets you the highest Aid Other action bonus in the game, and if you can find a way to make Gloves of Arcane Striking work for you, you can toss out HUGE buffs constantly. You also have the Strategy ability, one of the best team Full Attack setups ever.

    Then, you have Order of the Star cavaliers, which are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. These guys function best with a 2 level dip in paladin or a 1 level dip into Cleric, because they get channeling/lay on hands progression! This, in my opinion, is the BEST way to perform the any-alignment paladin-esque character. You even get other bonuses for having a great Charisma score, aside from the obvious ones of being able to use LoH or Channel more frequently. Sure, it's only at half progression, but the abilities you get that are also charisma-based definitely make up for it. Oh, and Smite Evil/Challenge is the bee's knees.

    And let's not forget Order of the Staff, which is a simply BEAUTIFUL combination with a party spellcaster. Lowers enemy DC's? Check. Bonus attacks against enemies affected by a spell? Check. Gaining bonus HP when your allies buff you? Check. That's awesome. Plus, who else can make a Knowledge (Nature) check to identify divine spells???

    Oh, and remember all those awesome teamwork feats that no one wants to take but that EVERYONE wants? Guess who just became awesome.

    That's right.

    You did, mister Cavalier.

    Osirion

    There are two big ways to sneak attack relatively consistently: 1) A rogue with the Scout archetype gains automatic sneak attack damage at 4th level on a charge, and automatic sneak attack damage at 8th level whenever he moves at least 10'. This increases the number of situations in which sneak attack can be applied, which is awesome, and it means that feats like Furious Focus and Power Attack mean you can actually do pretty solid 1-hit damage, and 2) An alchemist with the Beastmorph and Vivisectionist archetypes eventually gives the alchemist the Pounce ability, and alchemists already get a large number of natural attacks if built for it. Vivisectionist gives them sneak attack damage instead of bombs, and of course, the two stack.

    Osirion

    Interesting. That means that the Minor Magic rogue trait qualifies him for Arcane Strike as well. Hm...

    Osirion

    Nothing makes you wanna play like DM'ing forever and NEVER getting to play. I say enjoy it while you can. I'm in the same boat, except I never get to play period. After it stops becoming fun you can decide to stop.

    Osirion

    You might consider something like Tephra or a dice pool game like World of Darkness. Both are pretty simple, though Tephra takes a bit of getting accustomed to.

    Osirion

    A slew of extremely awesome racial feats and archetypes themed around dragons and traps and being AWESOME!

    Osirion

    One of my favorite characters ever was a Kobold Barbarian. I was playing in an all-monstrous party, and I really wanted to focus on his draconic nature, so I picked up beast totem and elemental rage, with the idea being that his scales would change color depending on the chromatic dragon element he was channeling. He was a lot of fun.

    Osirion

    Yeah, seems like a Suli Monk of the Four Winds/Quinggong Monk is the way to go. You get the elemental damage from suli, lots of Elemental fist uses, and quinggong monk gets you access to some cool spells, including Cold Ice Strike, a swift action ice elemental spell, which is just AWESOME if your goal is elemental damage.

    Osirion

    You might also consider the Wild Stalker ranger archetype for the barbarian Rage and the Rage Powers.

    Osirion

    I feel like I should mention it: Natural attacks are REALLY nice at low levels, or for using unarmed strikes as a non-monk character, or if you have a lot of them. The main benefit of having lots of unarmed attacks is that they don't receive a scaling miss chance with more attacks, which makes them very, VERY consistent. A character with a bite, two claws, and a tertiary attack can get 4 attacks in the same round, all made at full BAB. Kobolds are actually REALLY good at this, and is one of their few redeeming qualities (and one of my favorite ones). Apologies if someone already mentioned this.

    Osirion

    Ranger makes an AWESOME tanky character. If you take the sword/shield fighting style, you even get early access to bashing finish, which gives you free shield bashes on crits for nice bonus damage. The spells are what give it that nature-esque feel, and if you take the Woodland Skirmisher archetype you can even get some druidic spells added to your list without needing to worry about an animal companion (though you're stuck with crap favored enemies, but that's nothing Instant Enemy can't fix).

    Osirion

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    Druid. Druid druid druid. Druid.

    Druid. Play it. Go Druid. Don't think, just Druid. Look at your wizard, now back to me. I'm a tiger that can actually hit things and keep casting spells as a tiger. Now back to the wizard. He's dead.

    Osirion

    I would say that the Throwing ability works as normal. Remember, any part of the body is considered being armed for an unarmed strike. You could "throw" body part, just remember that it's connected to the rest of your body.

    I have a really funny image in my head of a monk ragdolling through the air to body slam his opponent now.

    To be fair, I would TOTALLY allow this as a means of allowing a character to flurry from range, with the caveate that a missed attack has to account for landing in a space adjacent to the foe.

    Osirion

    A game of Pathfinder that I'm not forced to form and DM and overwork before the game ends after a month of... well something. I don't know if I can call it playing.

    Osirion

    I would argue that it's okay, and allow it, but by RAW you don't qualify for selecting familiars from the list because you have no arcane caster level.

    Osirion

    It really depends on what you wanna do. Holy Vindicator has some cool, unique things it can do that make it special. Plus, the ability to enchant your shield with a unique, high-powered, stacking bonus is pretty sick. Combat-wise, it does pretty well while maintaining some cool flavor.

    Scion would be good for an entirely spellcasting-focused cleric. I think it has some cool flavor and different aspects to it, but for the most part it's kinda "meh", imo.

    Base Cleric is the more well rounded, while Vindicator is more combat oriented, and Scion more spellcasting. It really just depends on what you wanna focus on.

    Osirion

    I still say just pick up Magical Knack and 2 ranger levels. Easiest way to make an effective character, decent BAB, and you don't have to spend a bunch of feats just on qualifying for the PrC.

    Osirion

    Well, you need medium armor proficiency, which is going to eat up feats. My suggestion for this path would be to take a level or 2 of Ranger for the proficiencies and attack bonuses, plus the extra skills will help you qualify for the class as well. You could actually take Evil Outsider as your favored enemy type to help you with your qualification. If you take 2 levels, you can also get Shield Focus as a bonus feat and pick up a Darkwood or Mithril Buckler ASAP (shield bonus to AC that doesn't take up a hand for casting or hexing).

    If you're thinking of STRAIGHT into Hell Knight, I wouldn't recommend it, but to each his own. Your spellcasting doesn't suffer, so you end up as a lightly armored witch without any hexes after you enter the prestige class, which SUCKS. I say, if you're going to go into a gish-prestige class, do it properly and pick up those ranger levels I mentioned. You'll be better armored without wasting feats, have better saves (+2/+3 to Fort AND Ref), and favored enemy Evil Outsiders is NEVER a bad thing.

    Osirion

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    huh. Just goes to show how long it's been since I frequented the forums.

    Though more and more I'm finding I had a good reason for leaving. >_>

    Osirion

    Actually, the old crane wing reduced the damage to 0. The attack was still treated as a hit, however, which meant that things like grappling, poisons, curses, etc. all came into effect.

    Osirion

    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    Not a single day. Why? Because I made a promise to my wife and family that I would spend my life with them, and no amount of power in the 'verse would change that.

    Osirion

    BigNorseWolf wrote:
    Samduc Dawnbringer wrote:
    I believe in using math.

    By the math the rogue is "good enough". I prefer empirical evidence of the creature running around in the wild.

    What happens on the battlemat is that the rogue is hosed by the move or damage dichotomy of martials... the difference being that the rogue doesn't have to be within 5 feet of a foe, they need to be within 5 feet of a full on sneak attack. This doesn't always happen. The gang up feat can help, but like many rogue options its burning feats just to get at the start of the race.

    That's why Scout is the best rogue.

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