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Half-Orc

Davor's page

2,051 posts. Pathfinder Society character for Manijin.


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Scarab Sages

Well, the main issue is that, without added spell support, there is little reason to consider a heavily paladin-based DD over a split Paladin/Sorcerer. Paladin 2/Sorcerer 3/Dragon Disciple 4 has a lot more going for it, and if you want to continue down the gish path, you now qualify for Eldritch Knight, so you can keep your BAB up. This way, at 9th level, while your BAB is a tad low, you have access to 3rd level spells like Haste, Heroism, and Fly, all of which can support the party, or close the melee gap with the raw Paladin build, while also giving you access to more 2nd level spells, a better Arcane Strike damage bonus, and it opens up some of your feats.

If you are insisting on using a one-handed weapon, pick up a mithral light shield/buckler. It's an easy way to keep up your defenses. If not, grab a two-handed and put that strength to work. Instead of Dodge/mobility/spring attack, consider Arcane Strike, Furious Focus, Or something else with more direct benefit. Swap out one of your traits for Magical Knack. That caster level boost is too important not to take.

With your stats, consider grabbing a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes. With Enlarge Person up, you cover a huge area with lots of threat. If you really want a companion, swap out your 1st level bloodline power for a familiar, and consider the Protector archetype for it. It's a solid utility/defensive boon.

Scarab Sages

This may sound odd, but I'm actually a big fan of the Harrowing stat generation method from Wayfinder 5. My best friend and I use it exclusively for our home games, usually with a 16 card draw. We also add a rule where we allow a single, one-time swap of any two stats. We find it regularly produces viable characters, without all the risks of straight stat rolling, that forces you to really think about how best to use your stats, while still allowing for player choice.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think, at least in the little experience I've had playing martial characters, that one ought to realize something.

Damage is useful, but the amount of damage it takes to be viable in a party is a lot lower than you would think. Find a reasonable amount of damage to deal in one standard/full-attack, and once you've hit that threshold, start diversifying your portfolio. Every martial ought to have a ranged option, so find a way to make ranged combat reasonable. If you have the feats for it, consider going down a combat maneuver feat line. I played a reach fighter oriented around trips/dirty tricks at one point, and between the two maneuvers and dealing respectable damage (thanks in part to the number of AoOs I got), I found that most situations I could contribute to the group in different ways, depending on the scenario.

One big, bad guy? Trip him, give everyone AoO's, then use Dirty Trick to blind him. Horde of enemies? Reach trips are amazing, and they all provoke when they stand back up. Flying enemies? Dirty Trick to entangle/blind them if they get into reach, and because my Dexterity is reasonable, I can pull out a bow and fire with decent amounts of success.

Dirty Trick is probably the best maneuver as far as keeping the game interesting is concerned, mostly because you can't just "dirty trick". You actually need to describe the action you're taking as part of the maneuver. That alone keeps things fun, and it's rewarding because, once your CMB gets high enough, even giants and dragons don't stand much of a chance avoiding getting blinded/etc.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

The group is fine, you're worrying too much, and if their characters are reasonably well built, they'll make it through without a hitch.

People QQ too much about lacking X,Y, or Z. Everyone is versatile, and your damage is solid.

Scarab Sages

I was doing some theory crafting regarding a healing-themed wizard, and I'm pretty sure that, if you get a protector-archetype familiar, combined with life link, you can take damage for allies, then split it with your familiar, which has fast healing from the life spirit.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Combat Reflexes is an amazing feat, assuming you have a semi-reasonable Dexterity investment, because it does something no other feat does: Gives bonus attacks at no penalty. Two-weapon fighting imposes a penalty and requires a full-round action to use. Same goes for Many/Rapid Shot. Combat Reflexes should be considered the TWF/Rapid Shot of reach weapons/two-handed fighting. Anything that increases your attacks per round, especially on such a consistent basis (reach weapons, enlarge person, etc.), is exceedingly powerful.

Scarab Sages

I love the Warlock archetype, and recently did a bit of reading into it, because it looked AWESOME at first, but I've learned that it's just okay.

1) Remember that Lethal Grace only applies to your starknives, not to your mystic bolts. You seemed to have accounted for that, but I just wanted to point it out.

2) You can only use the Conductive property once per round. I had considered it before, and that restriction REALLY put a damper on the idea.

After that, everything seems fine, but those two things really kill warlock damage potential, imo.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure mystic bolts qualify for both Pirahna Strike and Deadly Aim. That should spice things up in the damage department, especially with them being touch attacks past 4th.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, gloves of arcane striking are probably one of my favorite items in the entire game. That's a nifty interaction I hadn't thought of. Too bad the damage is so low, though.

Scarab Sages

Most complicated? I dunno. I feel like, if I have to make things overly complex, I probably messed up somewhere from a concept optimization standpoint. I love strange characters, though. I'm currently playing a blood marked skin walker grenadier/toxicant alchemist with a sword/board combat style. Possibly one of my favorite characters ever, from a mechanical standpoint.

Scarab Sages

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
You also don't really have the stats for combat.

^This.

That's why I recommended the archetypes I did. Capitalizes on your high Charisma without preventing you from being supportive.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, I've been frustrated by the forums, too. I used to think people here were all about supporting others and helping people optimize within the given parameters. Apparently, I was mistaken.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
quibblemuch wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Granted I am more okay with the idea of a Paladin of Pharasma than I am with Paladins of Abadar, which are unfortunately a thing.
I like to imagine Paladins of Abadar all have pompadours, slick grins, and ridiculous wives/sidekicks. They travel the countryside in tent shows explaining how their god wants them to be rich... at least until Starfinder, when they start their own television network...

No way. We already know that Paladins of Abadar are all sexy, crossbow-wielding cowgirls.

Scarab Sages

If you want more combat presence, there are a few things you could do.

Consider retraining, or talking to your DM about a minor rebuild. You can keep your stats, but take either the Sound Striker archetype, or the Thundercaller archetype. Both have spell-like effects they create based on bardic performance, and their effects are REALLY good (particularly Thundercaller). You lose out a little bit (a very little bit) on utility, but the combat benefits FAR outweigh the loss, imo.

Scarab Sages

Yes, everyone, I understand the character will not be contributing much in the damage department. His party contributions will revolve around skill support, scouting, social strength, and aiding during combat (with combat reflexes/bodyguard, he'll regularly be throwing out +5 untyped bonuses to attack rolls/AC thanks to good traits). No, he won't be putting out much damage, but I've already accepted he'll be a support character that will be strong in social/trapfinding situations.

Scarab Sages

voideternal wrote:

1) What level character are you making? How far will you level up?

2) Do your table use Automatic Bonus Progression?
3) Do your character consider extracts to count as 'magic'?

If the answer to 1) is 'not a low level', and the answer to 2) is 'no', then be prepared for your character to have lower raw numbers to rely on in various scenarios.

If the answer to 3) is 'yes', you're choosing to abandon core class features.

Under the assumption that 3) is 'no', you could talk with your GM about spending money on researching new unique extracts. If the lack of magical gear is likely to weaken your character, maybe your GM will be liberal enough to make the custom-made extracts over-powered enough to compensate for it.

Otherwise, you might spend money on the downtime rules from Ultimate Campaign to make a house or home-base or detective squad or something.

1) We're running through Hell's Rebels, starting at 1st level. Presumably we'll get up to high levels eventually.

2) No Automatic Bonus Progression.

3) I do count extracts as being "magic". However, I'm looking at the Sleuth archetype to remedy that situation (yes, I know it's a straight downgrade, but it's the best solution to that problem).

Scarab Sages

I'm considering a character concept revolving around someone that completely eschews all forms of magic. He won't refuse magical assistance from other players, but he refuses to use any form of magic himself. I'm looking at an Investigator build atm, currently with a focus on just being super skillful and using Aid Another to help his allies.

My main question is, on what should I spend my money to benefit myself, and the group, if I will not be using magic items?

Scarab Sages

The familiar's hit points are still based on 1/2 the master's, regardless of level, so while it misses out on some nifty abilities and natural armor progression, it should still be fine.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh, shut up and kiss, you two.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hunter is one of the best classes for introducing lots of different mechanics.

Good skills? Check.
Companion rules? Check.
Spellcasting? Check. Bonus* It's a small, spontaneous list. Perfect for newbies.
Combat Proficiencies? Check.

Scarab Sages

Trap-Finding Trait and the Warlock archetype.

Scarab Sages

I think the main problem here is Dedicated Support Syndrome. The witch, better than most other spellcasters, excels in a support role, but more often than not it's easy to feel worthless when you aren't specifically putting out damage.

I was playing in a game once where I was playing a support character, and actually took the time to keep track of my contributions in terms of hits & damage in an encounter. At the end of the day, thanks to my buffing, I ended up contributing roughly 50% of the party's overall damage, through buffs alone, not including the other support I did on my turn.

Just a few weeks ago, I was running a campaign for my best friend, and he encountered a Bulette. He had a Court Bard in his group and the -2 penalty bestowed by the Bard imparted more proactive healing than the cleric has done the entire game up to this point.

Support matters, and it matters A LOT. You just need to remember when it does.

Scarab Sages

4 people marked this as a favorite.
born_of_fire wrote:

For god's sake, not every game is like your game. Wait another day to adventure when we are on an adventure imposed time limit? Use CLW wands after battle when CLW wands are not available? Just do more damage when your players' system mastery is on the low side? Just hit it myself when the much hardier and effective characters intended for melee are already jockeying for position and having a hard time getting into range themselves?

And who said anything about mostly healing or healing every round? The decision to heal in combat is not a binary condition where there is only healing or no healing; it's a fluid choice based on the particular circumstances of each individual encounter.

It's already difficult to get many people to play a cleric. Having a frothing horde screaming that a cleric must be played a certain way* is not much encouragement for anyone considering the class.

At any rate, I know the truth of the matter for me based on my game play experience rather than some antiseptic exercise in math. I've had this discussion many times in the past with the same group of utter intractables. Not sure why I thought this was worth my time today. This is also straying farther from the OP's discussion than it ought to be. Good day.

*whether the screams are that they must heal or that they must never heal in combat

1) Truth is not subjective.

2) The observations made on the forums are made using the following assumptions:

-A) You are playing the game using the RAW. Once house rules come into play (removing access to certain items, restricting healing over time, etc.), conventional wisdom regarding the baseline rules of the game no longer works.

-B) The group that is playing is optimized to a reasonable level. A reasonable level usually implies individual character viability (the ability to perform my role in the group reasonably well). If players are inexperienced, or otherwise unable to optimize viably, they will be unable to handle encounters safely the majority of the time. I've observed a trend: generally, the less optimized a group is, the more healing becomes a requirement. I've found that this trend holds true often enough to stand by it.

Basically, the conventional wisdom regarding healing (healing outside of combat is best done with wand, and healing in combat should generally be avoided unless certain dire conditions are met) work with the base game as written, assuming party viability. If those demands are not met, then conventional wisdom does not apply. This doesn't make this ideology wrong: it means that any arguments AGAINST this conventional wisdom need to be made on equal ground. They very rarely are.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'll chime in here.

In my experience, the group's need for a dedicated healer is inversely proportional to the group's experience and level of optimization.

If they don't want to play a healer, then they don't get one. As a DM, you can't be afraid to let your players lose every now and then, and they may just surprise you.

Scarab Sages

I would say a doubling factor in regards to point-buy. So, the difference between a 10 point buy and a 20 point buy is HUGE; same for a 15-25. Most CRs are determined with a 15 or 20 point buy in mind, so being within a 1 factor of those (10-25) shouldn't alter things too much. 5 and 30 would be the starting points of imbalance.

Scarab Sages

The Hexcrafter archetype can take the Witch's Cure Hex.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I really like bardic performance because the flavor is so open ended.

I also really like the Archaeologist and Dervish of Dawn.

And I like Thundercaller and Sound Striker because they replace bardic performance with cool spell-like abilities.

So yes, there should be more bard archetypes without bardic performance, or that you give you cool abilities.

I'd personally like one that wild-shaped the bard by sacrificing one performance round per round in wild-shape. Or maybe something cool like causing enemy misses/hits against you to deal damage equal to 1/2 your bard level to other nearby enemies (maybe as a witch-themed archetype?).

Bard deserves more cool stuff.

Scarab Sages

While most of the guide is rather standard fare, the build section is EXCELLENT. There's a huge variety of builds, and they're all treated pretty fairly, with solid suggestions all around.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Siegebreaker is awesome with shields because it deals damage to your target equal to your Strength modifier whenever you successfully bull rush or overrun an opponent, and gives you a free overrun attempt whenever you make a successful bull rush. (Also, gives you +2 damage per appropriate combat maneuver feat, and allows you to add your shield enhancement bonus to the damage as well). That's why the overrun stuff works well. At higher levels, a single bull rush is adding 10-ish extra damage, with another chunk if you overrun, not including the obvious bonus of your target being prone now.

Oh, and Shield-Trained (Trait) lets you treat Heavy Shields as light weapons.

Scarab Sages

He's got decent strength. What's wrong with using a sling? 1d4+3 is fine, it's got decent range, and he could potentially do the switch-hitter ranger thing and get his ranged feats from the Slayer Talents if he wants to go that far.

That's not to bash the eastern weapons thing. I'm just saying that, as a DM, it's a little silly when I feel like I NEED to place a +2 Katana in with a bunch of standard treasure in the middle of Cheliax or something. It's more a quality of life decision on my part than a damage optimization strategy, otherwise I'd be all for it.

Scarab Sages

Why go for all those fancy tricks when you get Nodachi proficiency automatically as a Tengu? 1d10, 18-20/x2 is fantastic for a base weapon, and your proficiency with all bladed weapons opens you up to using a wide variety of weapon choices as the game progresses.

Basically, I'd avoid weapon focus, enjoy the variety you'll gain as you level, and be really flexible. Pick up a wooden shield for when you need one, and get feats that have more practical, general use (Improved Initiative/Warrior Priest, Heavy Armor Proficiency, skill bonus/extra language feats) and let your Talents fill in the few combat feats you'll need. Similar to what Ellioti posted.

With your high charisma, you could even consider eventually picking up Eldritch Heritage for some cool bloodline stuff. And, of course, there's always Nature Soul/Animal Ally if you wanted to gain an animal companion in addition to your familiar. It'd require 3 feats (Nature Soul, which isn't that great, but skill bonuses aren't bad for you), Animal Ally, and Boon Companion, but for getting a full-level animal companion, a familiar (by the way, check out the familiar archetypes. Your Monkey could be really, REALLY handy with some of those, especially the Figment/Protector/Mascot archetypes), you'll have lots of variety and battlefield control, not to mention that you ALSO qualify for feats like Evolved Companion/Evolved Familiar to give them more utility once you've gotten the few, base feats you'll need to be effective.

Scarab Sages

Well, Power Attack is a no-brainer. That plus Furious Focus would help solidify your usefulness in combat basically forever. As a Nature Fang, you wouldn't even need to use your spells for buffs, focusing instead on defensive spells and utility, like helping out with group healing, providing movement bonuses with Longstrider and other spells, and eventually things like Air Walk.

And yes, you're correct, your Sneak Attack never increases. It stacks with the Crocodile domain, though, which works really well, and also qualifies you for that feat that increases your Sneak Attack dice by 1 (I think).

Scarab Sages

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I still prefer Octopedes to Octopuses, and my favorite fake plural, Platypedes.

Scarab Sages

I've run a lot of Gestalt games, but I've never played in one. If I did, I would want to focus on combining utilitarian aspects of classes. I think, if I were to do it, I think I'd like to play an Oracle/Hunter, with the Solar mystery/Primal Companion/Divine Hunter archetypes. I think it'd be fun to play, and I could do just about anything so long as I spent my feats wisely, and those flexible evolution points would go a long way towards my versatility and combat prowess, which is, of course, secondary to being able to do lots of cool stuff.

Scarab Sages

Another option to consider is the Siegebreaker fighter archetype. You only even need 1/2 levels of it, but you can get a lot of abuse out of Shield Slam. Basically, you Shield Slam, and every time you attack with a shield, you get a Bull Rush attempt, which gives you an Overrun attempt, both of which not only move/debuff your target (prone is GREAT), but also deal damage equal to your Strength modifier (+more because you'll likely pick up improved/greater bull rush/overrun). By backing your enemy into a corner (or having an ally throw up a wall/barrier of some kind) you can do some pretty ridiculous stuff if you can get the feats to combine it with two-weapon fighting.

Scarab Sages

B.O.B.Johnson wrote:
Davor wrote:
Yeah, but very little is useless at high levels. +6 weapons are expensive, and for the vast majority of the game defending is basically pointless, then becomes only moderately useful to super rich characters at very high levels.

I don't know about that - I ran a scenario a couple weeks back and a player's whole build was based on absorbing attacks from the enemies - and he had an insane AC - he could careless about hitting well as long as he protected his allies.

He was complaining about some of the more intelligent enemies effectively ignoring him when they couldn't hit him. I probably shouldn't have pointed out to him that he should be using something like the Antagonize feat - I'm sure the next I run something for his character he will show up with it.

But you don't even need the AC bonus from defending to pull that off. Even then, it's WAY too much. A +2 Defending longsword costs 18,000 gold for a +2 bonus to AC... If you attack with it and take a -2 hit to your attack/damage, and if you really want to "tank", you need to present yourself as a threat, which that penalty doesn't help. You could easily spend the same funds on a +2 sword, a ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, cloak of resistance, AND a magic shield, all of which do more for you than getting defending.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, but very little is useless at high levels. +6 weapons are expensive, and for the vast majority of the game defending is basically pointless, then becomes only moderately useful to super rich characters at very high levels.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, but he'd probably be better off just specializing in Shocking Grasp and taking Elemental Spell. Then he'd at least be doing 5d6 instead of 4. No stagger, but the save won't be that high anyways, and he can use up 2nd level spell slots (same as frigid touch) to prep Intensified, Elemental Shocking Grasps which would scale up. If Elemental Touch or Chill Touch don't work, I see little reason to not just enhance shocking grasps a bit differently, which is SO dull. XD

Scarab Sages

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Okay, this really is a silly ruling, in the same vein as the Volley-spell/ranged Sneak Attack ruling. Why? Because it makes no sense.

I understand a little of the idea behind it. It's a weapon, so you get the benefits of the enchantment when you attack. But, specifically in the case of a defending weapon, it makes little sense.

The main reason I see for using a defending weapon is two-weapon fighting, and sword/board fighting. But in those instances, getting an enchanted, defending weapon at a reasonable level is unfeasible, and typically a waste of money. Sure, I can see how a +5 defending weapon might actually be a decent boon to a two-weapon fighter, but c'mon: You're going to want that bonus to hit/damage the VAST majority of the time, because your fighting style demands it, and if you're going sword/board, it's entirely likely that your AC is ALREADY so high that you stand to gain little benefit from the defending property.

As it stands, the defending property is too expensive, and is typically worthless outside of those situations where it, by this ruling, doesn't even work properly.

How I would do it: Make the Defending enchantment work off of Combat Expertise. You want to make people like that feat? "While wielding a weapon with the Defending property, reduce the penalty to attack rolls for Combat Expertise by an amount equal to the weapon's Enhancement bonus. While not using Combat Expertise, the weapon grants the wielder a bonus to AC equal to 1/2 the weapon's enhancement bonus (minimum +1)."

Scarab Sages

I will say, I don't know when it happened, or if I've just been doing it wrong, but Chill Touch actually deals Negative Energy damage, not cold, which is a real shame.

However, Elemental Touch, while being a second level spell, works well, especially if you're starting at 8th level, and if you want to focus on the cold thing, you can specialize in the spell just as much as you would Shocking Grasp, but instead of Intensifying it, you can Rime the spell, which means that every time you hit an enemy, you Entangle them for 2 rounds in addition to the save vs. Fatigue, which is pretty fantastic, and of course, that leaves more of your spell power available for more utilitarian & buffing spells.

Scarab Sages

Well, here's my issue: If you're casting every round, you may run out of spells quickly. My earlier suggestion was made with the impression that you would be utilizing all that sweet DD strength to do damage, with spells being used on an as-needed basis, particularly while smashing.

Scarab Sages

Why not just stick with Chill Touch? It lasts for multiple rounds/multiple attacks, doesn't need to be intensified, and comes with a debuff. Plus, it fits the cold theme, and stacks with something like making your weapon Icy or Icy Burst. Seems like a win/win to me. Opens you up to more feats, which is nice, and spell-strike doesn't require you to have a hand free save when you cast the spell, so you can do lots of interesting things, like two-weapon fighting, etc., if you get the stats to qualify for it, or even picking up a quick-draw shield.

Scarab Sages

Honestly, I have to say Sneak Attack, and I'm going to echo what other posters have said. While there are a PLETHORA of powerful, super cool class features (The entire Thundercaller bard archetype gets a standing ovation from me), Sneak Attack is the perfect, simple class feature. It tells you what to do without giving you any finicky math, and encourages teamwork and cooperation to get the most out of your character.

Scarab Sages

By the rules, you can't use an AoO against an ally. Period.

As a GM, however, I would totally allow things like this. It makes more sense, as long as it isn't abused to the expense of fun at the table.

Scarab Sages

I say go moderate strength/dexterity, reasonable Charisma (14-ish), a reach weapon, and Combat Reflexes. It makes up for your action economy early on, pairs well with arcane strike, and makes it easier to stay out of harm's way.

Scarab Sages

I'm going to echo what others above have said: simplicity. They're differentiating between "Hold in your hands and blow" and "Hold in your hands and bow" and "hold in your hands and strike" and "hold in your hands and it's a keyboard, so really string or percussion could work depending on the instrument, or maybe wind because accordions have a keyboard..."

It's all for simplicity's sake. Don't look at it too hard.

Scarab Sages

Actually, it's not related to Aid Another, but I almost wonder what an Eldritch Guardian 2/Carnivalist X could do with the Mauler Archetype and a natural-attack focused build. I know, I know, it's not in the spirit of the Aid Another thing, but I think it could be surprisingly effective.

Scarab Sages

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you,..." - Matthew 7:12.

/thread

Scarab Sages

Hunter and the Sacred Huntmaster Inquisitor archetype share all their teamwork feats with their animal companions. You can do some pretty neat things with them.

Also worth noting is the Monster Tactician Inquisitor Archetype. It shares its teamwork feats with the creatures it summons, and remember that when you summon lots of creatures you can get tons of Aid Another attempts.

Another is the Holy Tactician Paladin archetype. It shares 1 teamwork feat with all allies, with an unlimited duration (and the ability to change it as a swift action).

Scarab Sages

There is a difference (For example, Elemental Assault stacks with those other damage types, which normally doesn't happen), but you're attacking with a bow, which you are holding in your hands. Basically, yes, it works.

*Edit: AAAAAAND THEY'RE OFF!

Scarab Sages

Just a note: The archery route needs very little strength to shine, if any at all, BECAUSE you get so many flat damage bonuses. Inspire Courage + Arcane Strike puts you at basically what any other archer would have anyways. Add in Discordant Voice at 11th level, and you've got some major passive damage bonuses.

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