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David knott 242's page

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 2,353 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Of course, there are many races that fit uneasily into human cultures rather than having distinct cultures of their own. I have noticed that an interesting thing that my last three player characters have said is "I am human" -- and that statement has invariably proven false in some way.

I guess I should be able to surprise my fellow players by having my next player character actually be human.

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James Risner wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Do your players think that subsequent decreases to your intelligence reduce the save DC of spells already cast?

In the rules, decreases (damage/drain) are handled differently than increases.

In what way do they differ that would be relevant to the topic of this thread?

The obvious case I can see this applying to would be a Hold Person spell. A wizard casts that spell, and one or more targets fail the initial save. I think most of us would assume that the subsequent saves would be made at the exact same save DC regardless of what happens to the caster afterwards, correct?

By the other interpretation -- Would the wizard casting Fox's Cunning on himself then increase the save DC by +2? Conversely, would a successful Feeblemind spell cast on the wizard reduce the save DC by an amount corresponding to the decrease in his intelligence modifier? Or, for the most extreme case -- what would the save DC be if the wizard has died? Since the spell does not require concentration, it could last past the wizard's death.

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shroudb wrote:
typing bonuses as "ability bonus" would mess with existing abilities that actually have a type, like p.e. steadfast personality, or osyluth's guile, or arshea's 2nd obedience and etc

No, that was actually addressed in the FAQ. If you gain a typed bonus that happens to be equal to an ability score modifier, that does stack with ability score bonuses for the same ability score. The problematic combination is two or more untyped ability score bonuses for the same ability score to the same game element.

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Mine was an Undine Monk (Martial Artist)/Barbarian (Wild Rager). The combination looked like it had potential, but I could never quite make it work.

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Tectorman wrote:

Another one: this book introduced a magic item called the Ring of Refusal. Naturally, it's a ring. The Ring of Refusal is specifically an item geared for Gillmen. Those humanoid creatures with the webbed hands and feet. How are they wearing this?

It'd be like if there was a section specifically for Merfolk featuring one of their treasured items, the Boots of Nonsense.

There does seem to be a contradiction in the artwork between this book and the Advanced Race Guide, which shows a female Gillman wearing fingerless gauntlets that provide no room for webbing on the hands.

I would probably go with the webbing being flexible enough to avoid interfering with rings and hand slot items in any significant way.

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mbauers wrote:
What about spells like Frostbite--can I cast Frostbite on my AC so she can deliver the charges with her natural attacks?

No, that is the "Deliver Touch Spells" ability of a wizard's familiar. A druid's animal companion does not get that by default.

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Do your players think that subsequent decreases to your intelligence reduce the save DC of spells already cast?

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They don't need a whole book to tinker with prestige classes -- a couple of pages in Pathfinder Unchained 2 would be more than enough. Or one of us could do that in a thread in the Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew forum. Or some smart 3rd party publisher could put together a short and cheap PDF about it.

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I had no problem with it in Acrobat Reader.

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If I am not going to Gen Con but have one or more friends who are going, would it be possible to set things up so that somebody else can pick up my subscription copy of Occult Adventures? Or would I be better off just letting it be delivered to my home as usual?

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Natural healing for nonlethal damage is not a gray area at all. Per the PRD: "You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level." So your natural recovery from nonlethal damage is much faster than your recovery from lethal damage.

Or are you actually nitpicking over whether you get extra nonlethal healing from a night's rest? After all, we are looking for a difference of at most one hour to the time required to heal all nonlethal damage.

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I think I figured out a solution to the Medium/Heavy Armor issue with the Kapenia Dancer archetype, but it is clearly not obvious to me or to anyone else who has discussed this archetype in these forums.

Why do we see a problem with the Kapenia Dancer getting medium armor proficiency and the ability to cast spells in medium armor without risk of arcane spell failure at 7th level? Because they lack the implied prerequisite ability of having proficiency in light armor and ignoring arcane spell failure in light armor -- and the base Magus class does not call that out as a separate earlier stage of this ability but buries it in the armor and weapon proficiencies.

So, in the absence of any other replacement abilities, the thing to do would seem to be to grant this archetype proficiency with light armor and the ability to ignore arcane spell failure in light armor at 7th level and the Medium Armor ability of the standard Magus at 13th level. Now if we could only get Paizo to either make an official statement to that effect or propose something more useful (since the Medium Armor ability and Canny Defense do not play nicely with each other).

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In the section on "Further Expanding Summoning Lists", there is a sentence that begins as follows: "In particular, look for spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components".

Since summoned creatures are already forbidden by the rules for the Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally spells from casting spells or using spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components, why would having such abilities affect the suitability of a monster to be added to a summoning list?

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David Neilson wrote:

I do not think that is actually the issue for them. I think the issue was that Cheliax is bunch of bigots, and the idea of what are essentially devil infused non-humans walking around like people horrifies them.

Also going against the idea that Tiefling blood is diluted is that there are half-fiends which are believed to lead to tieflings eventually. Also the fact there are the various sorceror and bloodrager bloodlines that trace back to lower planes outsiders.

I guess I should have said further diluted beyond the half-fiend to tiefling transition. For the sorcerer bloodlines, actual ancestry is not the only way to acquire them -- other forms of influence could also be factors.

A key plot point in one of the Varian/Radovan stories involves the discovery of completely human looking tieflings in various Chelaxian noble families -- although given that many of them evidently have actual devil parents, the real mystery is how they can look completely human when they should actually be half-fiends. Anyway, the reaction of the queen was to hang each and every member of every family in which such "tieflings" were discovered. This story could provide an explanation as to why there is no counterpart for the "Scion of Humanity" aasimar racial trait among tieflings.

However, if fiendish blood can be a recessive trait that can lie dormant for many generations, then Asmodeus would have an all too easy way to wipe out any Chelaxian noble family that he takes a dislike to -- just arrange for a tiefling to be born into that family with subtle fiendish traits that do not become evident until puberty. Chelaxian bigotry would take care of the rest.

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How about a Summoner archetype that can summon his eidolon in a round or less -- but the summoner disappears at the same time? The summoner cannot return until the eidolon dismisses itself, is banished, or "times out" (as it would have a time limit for how long it can be present in the normal world).

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Trying to come up with ideas for this thread led me to think of possible archetypes for the Vigilante class:

1st would be an archetype that changes your appearance to another race. I was thinking of applying this class to an aasimar noblewoman who lost her position when she reached puberty and grew a very visible fox tail. Obviously, her vigilante identity would need to either lose or disguise that tail in some way -- and aasimars are sufficiently rare that the vigilante identity cannot obviously be an aasimar.

Another idea would be a vigilante identity that is more powerful than usual but which has a time or other limit as to how long it can be used. Examples of concepts that this archetype could apply to would be Ultraman (who has a time limit as to how long he can function in Earth's atmosphere) or Kekko Kamen (who has no time limit per se but who is for all practical purposes limited to combat situations since her costume leaves her indecently exposed).

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Possibilities to consider might include omitting the language about it being something that you can take more than once (so you cannot put all of your feats into Vigilante talents) or giving a limited list of which talents the feat can be used for -- I would think that a feat that can only give you additional levels of Arcane Training or Divine Training would be useful if there is not going to be a general Extra Vigilante Talent feat.

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The text says that this class gets a bonus feat at 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter. The table shows the class as getting a bonus feat at every even level.

There used to be a discrepancy in regard to when Uncanny Dodge is granted, but you seem to have corrected that one in the latest version. That correction appears to be where the bonus feat contradiction was introduced.

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By the way -- the Corbie class seems to have a major disconnect between the class table and the corresponding text in terms of at exactly what levels you get various class features.

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

I was just thinking, Legally, who's the king now?

Robert is dead
Renly is dead
Stannis is dead. His daughter is dead.

... On the show, Gendry's the king now isn't he?

In the books it would be Harry the Heir if they follow events similar to the show.

I would go with saying that the question is moot now. Tommen will be succeeded by whoever violently overthrows him. If House Baratheon is indeed extinct, Daenerys could be the rightful heir to that house -- but she would not claim the throne on that basis since she has no reason to accept the original Baratheon claim.

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KestrelZ wrote:

On a tangent, is "until death" something either deity recognizes, or "as long as you are on the material plane". This is important as resurrected people might be freed from marriage vows if the former.

Actually, it may be the latter as legal issues tend to recognize resurrected individuals the way we view someone that recovered from illness or serious injury.

The time factor might present some difficulties in regard to a long delayed Resurrection or True Resurrection. While it would be reasonable to wait out the day per level time limit for a Raise Dead spell before declaring somebody legally dead, it would not be reasonable to wait out the 10 years per level limit for the more powerful spells.

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No, good clerics can cast Inflict spells, just as evil clerics can cast Cure spells. The limitation by alignment is in regard to which sort of spell you can spontaneously convert a prepared cleric spell into.

But the basic Channel Energy ability definitely does work differently for good and evil clerics.

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A Racially Insensitive Gnome wrote:
The legions and power of Hell itself protect Queen Abrogail Thrune III!

If there is anyone in Cheliax going by that name, Queen Abrogail II would put her down quickly!

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The best balanced aasimar heritage is the Garuda-blooded or Plumekith. They have a +2 racial bonus to Acrobatics in addition to a +2 bonus to Dex.

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If you are careful about how you position yourself, you can squeeze a few extra rounds of rage from the Wild Rager archetype. Just be sure that the other players are aware of what happens whenever you drop a foe and try to arrange things so that you are not adjacent to any allies when you do that.

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Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

Some options.

Aasimar sorcerer with a fiendish related bloodline
Tiefling Sorcerer with a celestial related bloodline
Crossblooded human with both
Aasimar with the scion of humanity and racial heritage tiefling feat.

That last one doesn't work -- Racial Heritage requires that you pick a humanoid races, and tieflings are not humanoid.

If tiefling characteristics are dominant, then the offspring of a tiefling and anything else would be a tiefling -- from Hell's Pawns, it is evident that Chelaxians are horrified at the possibility of tiefling who can pass for human, so that would support the idea that tiefling blood normally cannot be diluted over the generations.

On the other hand, a periborn aasimar with cosmetic tiefling features would seem to be the perfect compromise for an aasimar/tiefling hybrid.

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Ah, good point. Thanks!

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Thank you very much! The Bloodrager in our party will love this one.

So I think you said elsewhere that your next product deals with unchained skill options? Will this be out in early July, or sooner?

This has to be my favorite 3rd party product line for Pathfinder yet.

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Covert Operator wrote:
Question: If an Inquisitor uses VMC Cleric to get a domain, he has to choose the same domain for both classes. What is his effective level for this domain, and does he gain domain abilities earlier?
I see no reason why you would have to choose the same domain for both classes, or why you would want to choose something you already had.

Well, the rules for a standard Inquisitor require that your Inquisitor domain match one of your Cleric domains if you have levels in both Cleric and Inquisitor and that those effective Cleric levels for the common domain stack. Are you saying that this rule does not apply to an Inquisitor with VMC Cleric?

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If you are willing to go with a 3rd party product, Everyman Games released a product that is literally titled "Unchained Rage" today. It covers exactly what you would expect.

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Since this creature has racial hit dice, you subtract 10 (if the ability score is even) or 11 (if the ability score is odd) from the listed ability score. In the case of the Mongrelman, that gives you:

Str +4
Dex +2
Con +2
Int +0
Wis +2
Cha -4

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Mark Seifter said in his thread that they missed one Friday because they were away at PaizoCon and then they missed the next Friday because key people were out sick -- they never had enough people healthy and at work at the same time.

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A couple of alternatives to the Leadership feat that this player may want to consider:

1) Contacts: If this NPC already exists and the player's roleplaying has already established a degree of friendship, the GM may want to award her as a contact with a fairly high degree of trust.

2) Recruits: If the player does not want to be bothered with hordes of followers, the Recruits feat (from Cohorts and Companions) allows him to take a number of cohorts equal to half his character level, with a maximum level four lower than the player character's level. Only one of these cohorts can accompany a player character on his adventures at a time.

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JiCi wrote:

Let's say you want to play an oracle and must select a curse, which one is the least damaging for you, mecanically?

I keep thinking that the Tongues curse doesn't hamper you... at all. By 10th level, you're... pretty much clear. Why? Because if your allies want to warn you, you understand them. You can't answer back unless they understand you, but... let's face it, what's so complicated for the other players to invest 2 skill points to learn your selected language anyway?

2 skill points? It only takes one skill point in Linguistics to learn a new language, even if Linguistics is not a class skill for you.

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thegreenteagamer wrote:
It's content is on d20pfsrd now. That's a good means to preview it before deciding to buy it.

The big missing item that my gaming group is waiting for is background skills. A lot of other things are up there, but the three skill systems are the biggest items that are still missing.

If Paizo can get the PRD update done early next week, they can get bragging rights that they got all of Pathfinder Unchained up before d20pfsrd did.

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The new unchained summoner is only restrictive if you ban the APG summoner (as PFS did). Otherwise, if your eidolon concept happens to match one of the new sub-types, the new version is better -- and if your concept doesn't match anything in Pathfinder Unchained, you have the old APG version to fall back on. If you are in a non-PFS game that allows the unchained summoner but not the APG summoner, take it up with your GM.

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The NPC wrote:
Yes, but will B5 have Shadows and Vorlons?

I think Shadows were in B1.

Vorlons won't appear because of the paradox involving B4 -- since I have a copy of it on my bookshelf, it obviously didn't disappear into the ancient past like it was supposed to.

This is typical of the mess that is life in the Age of Lost Omens. ;)

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Evan Tarlton wrote:
Qstor wrote:

Is Hell's Vengeance going to tie into Hell's Rebels in anyway? I think the past APs have had little to do with one another.

It would be interesting if Hell's Vengeance explores political ramifications from events in Hell's Rebels.

It's set during the same time period, but it's going to cover the rest of Cheliax. HR is set in one city and its surroundings, HV will be going everywhere but that city its surroundings. It's been hinted that the events of one will influence the other, but we'll have to wait for confirmation.

Well -- so much for my Chelaxian character's family being well removed from the events of Hell's Rebels (since they live at the opposite end of the country from Kintargo).

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Versatile Performance is not so amazing if your original class neither requires charisma as your highest stat nor has Perform as a class skill.

Eh. The second of those is easy to get around. And the first is just bad planning: If you're gonna take a Bard VMC, you should have high Charisma to do it with.

That doesn't make it bad, it just means you need certain prerequisites to make it good. Y'know, like most stuff in Pathfinder.

Well -- let's take a wizard with slightly above average charisma. The bardic knowledge bonus is great for this character, and even the bardic performance feature is a decent feature. If I could stop there, the Bard VMC would be a no-brainer for this character. But then we get to Versatile Performance -- and that feature doesn't look so good.

So whether any of the Bard VMD features are "amazing" depends on the character in question. An intelligence based character would find bardic knowledge "amazing" and be gradually less impressed with each feature that follows. A charisma based character, on the other hand, would see this VMC as starting out weak and gradually improving.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Inspire Courage is also worth more than a Feat.

You get a garbage inspire courage, so I disagree

Eh, it's mediocre at 7th when you get it, but even there it's a valid party buff. At 9th, it goes to +2 and is very solid, and way better than a Feat. At 11th when it becomes a Move Action? It's amazing.

And then you get Versatile Performance, which is amazing (and easily worth a couple of Feats) if you're willing to retrain a little.

Versatile Performance is not so amazing if your original class neither requires charisma as your highest stat nor has Perform as a class skill.

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If the player characters in this adventure can have any of the three evil alignments and are in service to House Thrune, that would represent an interesting change from Chelaxian tradition. The standard situation in Cheliax is an uneasy alliance of the three lawful alignments against the chaotic alignments.

So the question is, was House Thrune's switch from an all-lawful alliance to an all-evil alliance a cause or an effect of the general rebellion? In other words -- are the lawful good types rebelling because House Thrune turned on them, or did enough lawful good and lawful neutral types decide that they had finally had enough and rebelled on their own?

I am looking forward to finding out the answer to that mystery in a few months.

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Erik Mona wrote:

2) The AP staff is very familiar with Way of the Wicked, and I am certain that they will be taking great pains to provide a very different experience. Although I referenced Asmodeus at the Preview Banquet, in fact the PCs in Hell's Vengeance do NOT work for Asmodeus. They work instead for House Thrune, which isn't the same thing. In fact, friction between House Thrune and Asmodeus is a significant plot point in Hell's Vengeance.

More soon.

I think most of us were misinterpreting the "Hell's Vengeance" title then. Hell's Rebels is about a revolution against Cheliax, so the natural conclusion is that. in Hell'S Vengeance, Cheliax is getting their revenge against somebody -- and evidently not the obvious choice of Kintargo. But now I am beginning to think that the theme of this next AP is literally the vengeance of Hell against Cheliax -- and the strife in Hell's Vengeance will be presented as the reason that the Kintargo rebellion in Hell's Rebels actually has a chance of success.

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Isn't this item supposed to be part 4 of 6 rather than part 3 of 6?

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The obvious approach for Hell's Vengeance would be an expedition from central Cheliax to reclaim the newly free Republic of Kintargo on the other side of the Menador Mountains. If the "heroes" in Hell's Vengeance are successful, the status quo prior to Hell's Rebels is restores is restored (with Kintargo a bit more tightly oppressed than before). Then, the only way you have a major change to the setting is if Hell's Rebels results in a free Kintargo and Hell's Vengeance either fails or never happens -- and there is no reason for Paizo to assume that that is the case for the core setting.

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My Chelaxian PC would have answered "Cheliax". Guess where my rat bastard DM just teleported us?

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Kalindlara wrote:
I feel reasonably certain that that's not how the VMC Magus's arcane pool is supposed to work. ^_^

There is a similar problem with the VMC wizard for some schools, as they also have abilities that let you do something (such as change which ability score gets an enhancement bonus) when you prepare spells. Prior to Pathfinder Unchained, this was only an issue with 3rd party products -- but not Paizo has introduced that issue into their own rules.

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QuidEst wrote:
Bard is also really nice. I'd take a feat for half level to all knowledge checks and one for Inspire Courage.

Yes -- if you could stop there, it would be a no brainer for many mentally oriented characters to take. Some VMC combinations, like this one, offer diminishing returns, while others (such as the cleric and druid) seem to become more worthwhile as you gain further levels.

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But if you and your GM want to allow VMC for an eidolon, there is nothing stopping you from doing so. They have a base intelligence score of 7, which makes them smart enough to have class-like abilities, and they have the same feat progression by hit die that a normal player character does, so there is no issue with figuring out how to do it. And as I mentioned in another thread, how do you think Mark Seifter became a Rogue Eidolon?

Cohorts generally follow the same rules as player characters, so VMC obviously should work for them.

Animal companions have the right feat progression but initially lack the intelligence, while the reverse is true for familiars. There are definite mechanical problems with trying to use VMC with them.

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In the Automatic Bonus Progression section, the table provides improvements to Mental Prowess and Physical Prowess at 18th level, but the corresponding text sections stop at 17th level and do not have sentences for 18th level.

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I would definitely change the name -- Star Trek: Enterprise used that exact name for a major race in that series (right down to the spelling).

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