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David knott 242's page

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Working back from the Noble Scion prestige class, you want your base class to be either a skill monkey or a warrior type, but definitely not a dedicated spellcaster. That prestige class grants plenty of skill points (6 + Int mod) as well as combat ability (+7 BAB over 10 levels, with an additional +2 from your Dilettante Studies class feature), but it does not advance your prior spellcasting level very well (maximum of +2 caster levels over 10 levels from your Dilettante Studies class feature). Investigator is a fine choice for the base class, especially if you focus more on skills than alchemical extracts.

Since your effective level for extracts will never get very high, you can get away with a slightly above average intelligence but will want a very high charisma to take advantage of your increased maximum cohort level from Greater Leadership. Since the cohort you get at 7th character level (Noble Scion 2) is only one level behind your main character, you will want to consider carefully what you want to do with what is effectively a second character.


I tried to flag that previous two posts, but there does not seem to be an option for "post is in wrong thread". One is for the Advanced Race Guide, and the one before it is for the Advanced Class Guide.


May I have a free copy please?


donato wrote:
zergtitan wrote:
donato wrote:
I've rehosted it here.
I posted an edited version of the picture in its facebook comments section. could you repost it as well. It's an edited and improve color version of the original cropped to the Iconics image alone.
Here you go!

I guess we will have to wait until next week to hear what was being presented here? I am sure they must have had some intriguing spoilers, and I am amazed that nothing leaked out -- or did it?


I would be very surprised if PFS does anything other than ban Pathfinder Unchaimed in its entirety. After all, did the WotC "Living" campaigns ever use anything from Unearthed Arcana?


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Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Devilkiller wrote:

Has Paizo actually revealed any details about the new Summoner, or is the idea that they're limiting the eidolon to a menu of a few choices purely conjecture?

No one from Paizo has stated that. In fact, as a rogue eidolon myself, if evolutions no longer existed and you were unable to customize your eidolon at all beyond selecting from a menu of a few choices, I would be pretty shocked at this point. I know this is just one post, though, and the common wisdom on the internet holds the opposite view, but I would urge you to consider that I am pretty likely to be correct, as a rogue eidolon.

My eidolon wants to know how you became a rogue. She has been looking in vain for a way to gain class levels instead of or in addition to racial hit dice.


So -- Can anyone who made it to GAMA offer up some spoilers on this book?


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
What could possibly be the advantage of not counting allies as threatening foes per Heroic Leader?
Order of the cockatrice cavalier, solo maneuvers feat, axe to grind combat trait, Mivoni duelist regional trait...might be some others. But there are a few things that give you a bonus if you're the only one threatening an opponent.
Exactly.

Ah, thank you!


Zhangar wrote:
Axial wrote:
Yeah, kinda weird that you have to fight a huge, epic, six-part battle against Cheliax and only manage to liberate...one city? Lol.
More sobering thought: that Cheliax is strong enough that that's what it takes to liberate a single city.

Take a look at a map of Cheliax. Kintargo and Pezzack are the most rebellious cities in Cheliax, and by coincidence they are both on the far side of the Menador Mountains from the rest of the country. It would be perfectly logical for the portions of Cheliax northwest of the Menador Mountains to break free while the rest of the country remains firmly under the control of House Thrune, since there is no defensible terrain for rebels in the rest of the country to take shelter behind.


What could possibly be the advantage of not counting allies as threatening foes per Heroic Leader?


I had a similar idea a few years ago. I ended up playing a summoner with a serpentine eidolon that resembled a lillend.

But I would go with the lamia commoner race in Advanced Races: Lamia if you don't want to be stuck with a pet spellcaster.


Dragon78 wrote:
Will there be any archetypes in this book? Since it is book of optional rules I doubt it, but you never know.

Well, we are effectively getting "archetypes" of four classes. My guess is that we will get the equivalent of archetypes through methods that the archetype system doesn't quite cover properly.


Proxy Summoning is from the Ranged Tactics Toolbox, a Player Companion supplement.


It would probably have been a better idea to reduce the requirements in general (say, to only requiring 1st level arcane spells and 1st level divine spells, with the skill rank requirements left untouched) rather than provide a strange entry method that only a few characters can qualify for. The general premise that you should not be able to enter a prestige class before 6th level sets the entry bar higher than it needs to be for the multiclass combining prestige classes.

I wonder whether this topic might be addressed in Pathfinder Unchained? It seems to be too obvious an idea not to be mentioned in there.


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Ashram wrote:
Nice, another AP that would have lasting consequences on the setting, considering this one seems to revolve around reverting Cheliax back to its pre-Thrune phase.

I think you are being overly optimistic there, unless you are reading something into my speculation from yesterday. I thought I read somewhere that the actual overthrow of House Thrune won't be happening in this adventure path. However, I don't recall seeing any definitive statement as to whether Kintargo would still be part of Cheliax when the dust settles.


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I am really looking forward to the "MUCH, MUCH MORE!" part.


I think this portion of the description of the Ring of Spell Knowledge makes the FAQ quoted at the start of the thread irrelevant for that item:

PRD wrote:
Thereafter, the arcane spellcaster may cast the spell as though she knew the spell and it appeared on her class' spell list.

The spell is effectively added to the wearer's spell list.


The Help/FAQ page entry for the Core Rulebook says that the FAQ for the Core Rulebook was last updated on Friday, February 20th. That is incorrect, as it was in fact updated yesterday (Friday, March 6th).

Could somebody look into this and also check to see whether the other "last updated" dates are correct? I would have missed this one if I had not known that you would be updating SOMETHING yesterday.


Mark Seifter wrote:
My ear is always open to what you guys are saying, and I'll always take your suggestions to the PDT. In the end, there are a lot of factors behind the magic that leads to a final FAQ, but a crucial part of that process is hearing what you guys have to say.

By the way, there seems to be a glitch on the Help/FAQ page. This size increase FAQ was posted yesterday for the Core Rulebook, but the Help/FAQ page entry says that the FAQ for the Core Rulebook was last updated in February. Somebody should take a look into that.


But pity us non-PFS players with creative GMs who will read and use this book...


I am curious to see whether the effects of this adventure ripple elsewhere in the country. Two of the PCs in my current campaign are from the eastern part of Cheliax. Will their families be called upon to take a stand in these events, or will they be presented with a fait accompli in regard to whatever happens in Kintargo?


Ross Byers wrote:
I've gotten the impression it's strictly 'on the side'. I'm not sure how it could be 'imposed' anyway.

Plus, if this book is anything like Unearthed Arcana, its rules may not even all be consistent with each other. If somebody wants to turn it into a set of "official" new rules, they would probably have to choose among options to accept and options to reject.


Or archetypes, such as the Martial Artist archetype of the Monk. Unfortunately, I don't think there are any Paladin archetypes with the "counts as a Fighter" ability.


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The Hellknight Order of the Godclaw provides one way out for a religious lawful good Chelaxian. That order worships a pantheon of five deities -- Asmodeus, Abadar, Iomedae, Irori, and Torag. Since a member of that order offers prayers to all five of these deities, he can truthfully answer yes to the question of whether he worships Asmodeus, even if one of the other four deities is his actual chosen patron.


I suppose one way to handle a formal duel is to have a third "combatant" signal when to start fighting. In the first round, the signaler raises his hand, and the two actual combatants ready attacks for when the signaler drops his hand (since attacking before he does that would violate the rules of the duel). In the second round, the signaler drops his hand, and the two actual combatants take their readied attacks in initiative order. Since they have already acted in this combat by readying their attacks, neither one is flat footed.

Is there anything in the rules to prevent that from working?


I once had an Eidolon say, "Hey, I just learned a new language. Where did you pick that up?" (Moment of silence as Eidolon picks up Summoner's thoughts) "Oh no! You did NOT use that summoned azata as a 'sleeping dictionary'!"


The black raven wrote:

If I get joy from killing PCs and thus ruining the players' fun, I am a bad GM.

If I do not even get joy from it and just kill them anyway to obey rules and rolls, why keep on GMing ?

My GM gets great joy from talking about the times he has tried and failed to kill the PCs -- as do we PCs. The GM presented us with a worthy challenge, and we met it. What could be better than that?


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Akari Sayuri "Tiger Lily" wrote:
Mechagamera wrote:
It seems like it ought to take an evolution point. Two for really good sex.
There's already a Mount evolution for one point

I figured that doing the deed with a female serpentine eidolon required one of the following:

1) The Eidolon gaining a single pair of legs to enable mating with a humanoid, or

2) The Summoner assuming a compatible form (so that capstone "Twin Eidolon" provides "benefits" outside of combat).

A male eidolon needs nothing more than at least one Tentacle evolution.


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For Eidolon clothing, I would generally have them wearing whatever they were wearing when they were last dismissed or banished. Most Eidolons are sufficiently non-humanoid in appearance that it wouldn't matter, but I assume that the Eidolons who are the subject of this thread are not of that sort.

At low levels, since it takes a minute-long ritual to summon an Eidolon anyway, there is a good chance you can summon the Eidolon in privacy and not expose the party to something they might prefer not to see.

In my campaign, this only became a big deal when my Summoner retrained into the Evolutionist archetype. The mundane clothing worn by the Eidolon obviously would not resize with her, so she got a lot of use out of that single rank she put in Craft (Clothing). A Rod of Splendor helped tremendously in that regard.


Doomed Hero wrote:
The Summoner would routinely fling himself into danger, and the Eidolon would protect him, heal him with Life Link, and chastise him for his recklessness. They had an fantastically dysfunctional relationship.

How could that work? Life Link lets the Sommoner take damage for the Eidolon. Life Bond is the ability that lets the Eidolon take damage for the Summoner -- but it is not available until a relatively high level.


TragicSeraphim wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Greater Create Demiplane
But it only has a duration of 1 day/CL, so would that mean I could only stay in the demiplane for a maximum of 17 days?

The spell description gives information on how to make the spell permanent.


All are OGC. The Godling and Magister options can be found on the d20pfsrd.com site.


I know of three ways, all involving 3rd party (specifically Rogue Genius Games) material:

1) The Genius Guide to Feats of Multiclassing has the Touch of Fate feat that gives you access to one revelation.

2) The Divine Portfolio chain of divine traits for the Godling classes gives you access to oracle revelations. This option can be taken as feats (Spark of Divinity and Emergent Divinity).

3) The Magister class has options to gain an Oracle myster (from a limited list) and spend bonus feats to gain revelations. This option requires five levels of that class and has no alternative feat option.


Actually, a timeless plane just stops you from aging while you are there -- and there are much safer ways to slow down or halt your aging process.

For crafting purposes, the best you can do is create a demiplane with the Flowing Time trait where time flows twice as fast for you as it does outside of the demiplane -- then you can get double the amount of crafting done in half the (outside) time.


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There are a couple of 3rd party products that deal with the offspring or descendants of eidolons, so the possibility definitely exists.

The Tome of Twisted Things by Little Red Goblin Games includes a race called the Warped, which is the offspring of an unnatural coupling between summoner and eidolon.

There is another product whose name I cannot recall that includes an Eidolon bloodline, presumably a more distant descendant of such a coupling.

Paizo itself has nothing official to say on this topic, as best I can tell.


There would be a similar issue with the sorcerer bloodline power (since just about all of them are supposed to scale with sorcerer level) but without the complication of potentially being able to take more bloodline powers with a feat.


In that case -- does that mean that the revelation he gets at first level doesn't scale, since he has no oracle levels? While some revelation provide fixed benefits, others improve with oracle level.


Does a Blood Mystic qualify for the Extra Revelation feat? Why or why not?


Snorb wrote:
So when you have a Final Fantasy XII moment and the eidolon follows you into a store, the shopkeeper knows who to say "Errr, Sir? Can you please take that... thing outside? It's... it's scaring away all the customers..." to.

My summoner protested that his eidolon wasn't really all that scary and would not hurt anyone without a very good reason. The shopkeeper replied, "I was talking to your eidolon."

In any case, the behavior of the summoner and eidolon in combat pretty much gives away their connection. You have a monster rampaging over the battlefield, and one person in the battle always stays near that monster and casts buffs on it. Outside of combat, they are given away by little things like finishing each other's sentences.

You really need to do more than cover your foreheads to conceal that intimate connection between summoner and eidolon.


Flaming Crab Games wrote:
Sorry, mate. I'm actually surprised we were able to get 10 people to snag copies before the sun rose!

I have to thank you for waking me up for this. I have no idea how you did it since my computer was off and you do not have my phone number or address.

I liked most of the feats in this book. I suspect that my DM will approve the Eschew Materials line of feats in our campaign, but he will probably balk at Racial Paragon. Is it really the intent of this feat that a normal human PC would be able to gain Dual Talent (+2 to any 2 stats) that way? And is there anything preventing one of those 2 stats from being the one he already took his racial +2 to?


May I have the last free copy then?


Gisher wrote:
I had hoped that the familiar folio would address this issue. Does anyone know if it does?

It doesn't. I searched my PDF for all occurrences of "intelligence" and "Improved Familiar" and found nothing on this subject.

However, I did pick up one item that implies that a familiar does not keep the intelligence of its original creature listing if it is higher. The Mauler familiar archetype has a MAXIMUM intelligence of 6, which means that if it is an improved familiar, it most likely lost intelligence.

On the other hand, the Sage familiar archetype has an intelligence of 5 + effective wizard level of master, so it is less likely to lose intelligence even at the lowest levels.

Of course, since both of these archetypes replace the "speak with animals of its kind" special ability, I am not sure whether either of them can be applied to most improved familiars in the first place.


The Godling and Magister lines by Rogue Genius Games have classes that either cast spells spontaneously or do not cast spells at all but who can access the powers of wizard schools, in particular the Physical Enhancement power of the Transmutation school annd the Flexible Enhancement power of the Wood school, both of whose benefits can be changed "when you prepare spells".

So what happens with spontaneous casters and non-casters who select one of these abilities? Would a spontaneous caster be able to substitute "when you ready spells" for "when you prepare spells"? Or are characters who do not prepare spells stuck forever with their initial choices or unable to make an appropriate choice in the first place?

And, if you leave the enhanced ability score unchanged for a day, does it become a "permanent" increase, or is the time considered to reset whenever you prepare or ready spells or fantasize about being able to cast spells in the case of a non-caster?


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After some further research, I discovered that 101 7th Level spells by Rite Publishing does have a Curse of Ineptitude spell of the right level.


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
christos gurd wrote:

Healthy Moves (Ex): Your base speed increases by 10 feet. At 5th level, you receive Dodge as a bonus feat. At 10th level you receive Mobility as a bonus feat. You do not need to meet the prerequisites to receive these feats.

edit:unless thats been changed of course.

Ahh right. I remember looking at this exact situation and going back and forth on whether this is balanced or not. Ultimately I decided that it is still balanced because you are using a revelation to negate the speed loss. You could otherwise choose a +1 natural armor bonus, a sacred/profane bonus to your CMB, the ability to slow your enemy's movement, a climb speed and so forth, but instead you are bringing yourself up to the normal movement speed for the race. Flavor-wise, you are House MD who limped for a long time and managed to get full use of his leg back (before the network made him be a cripple again). You are a paragon of health and should be able to overcome physical limitations like a lame leg that would otherwise slow you down.

Having said all that, I could see a GM not allowing this revelation with the lame curse.

The main argument I could see for not allowing an Oracle with the Lame curse to take that revelation is the very similar Cinder Dance revelation of the Flame mystery:

PRD wrote:
Cinder Dance (Ex): Your base speed increases by 10 feet. At 5th level, you receive Nimble Moves as a bonus feat. At 10th level, you receive Acrobatic Steps as a bonus feat. You do not need to meet the prerequisites to receive these feats. Oracles with the lame oracle curse cannot select this revelation.


Various assorted items for which this book remains the primary source. What attracted me to this product were the armored kilt and the equipment tricks.


Hurray! That did it!


Evangelist (from Inner Sea Gods) and Hellknight Signifer (from Paths of Prestige) are two that come to mind. The former has a one level delay on all abilities of the primary class, while the latter fully advances domain powers already gained but does not enable you to gain new ones.


Dread Knight wrote:
My idea is that he'd actually be a Summoner, Genie would be his Eidolon and if your GM lets you take the Shaitan Binder archetype as a human.

The only problem with that idea is that you really need to come up with an archetype where the eidolon and not the summoner does all the magic.

I really have to put that archetype together one of these days.


I just noticed an interesting issue with one of the bonus spells for the Fitness mystery. The spell granted at 14th level is called "Curse of Ineptitude", but I cannot find that spell anywhere. It has no superscript after it, which would imply that the spell is either in the Core Rulebook or this PDF -- but it is in neither place. The d20pfsrd.com version of this mystery lists this spell but has no link to it -- and in fact the only "Curse of Ineptitude" spell they have anywhere on their site is a spell of too low a level by another company altogether. The descriptions of other "Book of the Faithful" products make no mention of containing new spells.

So -- where is this "Curse of Ineptitude" spell?

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