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David knott 242's page

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 2,257 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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On second thought -- that blog post seems to suggest that that is now Chris's job.

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I would love it if it turned out kobolds were vulnerable to becoming addicted to ginger.

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LoreKeeper wrote:

I've made an Unchained monk (monk 11 / cleric 1) that focuses on unarmed strikes. A couple of neat features:

  • SAD monk, heavy emphasis on Wisdom attribute
  • At level 1 take a short detour into cleric of Irori to acquire Guided Hand, so attacks are now calculated on Wisdom
  • Trait: wisdom in the flesh (acrobatics)
  • Large ki pool
  • Pick flying kick style strike first; it is used to combo with Disorientating Maneuver
  • Combat style mastery, to switch between boar style and mantis style on the fly
  • Mantis style and high Wisdom grant a Stunning Fist DC of 25
  • Medusa's Wrath as monk 10 bonus feat: stronger than improved critical (unarmed strike) with the new flurry and high chance to stun
  • Unarmed damage is not emphasized, but battle field control is significant
  • The 1 level in cleric grants protection from and remove fear
  • The 1 level in cleric grants small boost to Will save, coupled with great Wisdom for a good overall Will save
  • Original draft used only boar style to grant slashing/piercing/bludgeoning unarmed strikes, and the ability to demoralize for free when striking a foe twice

** spoiler omitted **...

Did you try building this monk as a VMC cleirc? You would lose the protection from evil and remove feat spells along with three feats. Would it be worth it for one more actual monk level?

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The main issue with VMC isn't really addressed in the book -- how do you deal with overlapping abilities? Prohibiting taking levels in your VMC class eliminates most but not all such cases -- but you still have cases (especially with archetypes) where you can get class features from both regular class features and VMC class features.

And I do like the idea of turning the VMC options into feat chains, but you do need to factor in the temptation to stop advancing a VMC. The feat chain could take care of it by having the first feat grant you what you get at 3rd level, with the second feat granting you whatever you get at 7th level and improving the ability you already got at 3rd level to 7th level, and so forth.

Otherwise, I would be very tempted to take the 3rd level feat for the Bard VMC (which grants you bardic knowledge at your character level) and then ignore the rest of the sequence. If the bardic knowledge bonus did not increase unless I took additional feats, I would have a decision much closer to the one I would have to make using the system in the book.

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master arminas wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
Dexion1619 wrote:
I think that the Monk Variant Multi-Class gave unarmed strike (Fairly sure someone mentioned that)... but I don't know if it does anything to shore up you're defense.

It gives you unarmed strike at 3rd level, as a monk 2 levels lower.

It gives you a +3 dodge bonus to AC at 15th level, which of course is way too late to plan your build around.

Guys, it isn't always about the builds. Haven't you ever played in a game where the party gets split up? When your opponents attack in the dead of night when you are asleep and not wearing armor? Been through a scenario when you don't have access to your weapons or magic items?

I have. Plenty of times.

Being able to punch like a monk of just a few levels beneath yours, having flurry of blows, getting a +3 dodge bonus to AC, and gaining a ki pool are all good things for when the unexpected happens. And if I am reading these posts right, the VMC (variant multi-class) Monk doesn't require you to be lawful to gain those abilities.


But notice when you get that +3 bonus to AC -- at 15th level. You will have to find some other way to provide for your defenses at levels 1-14. The VMC monk seems to follow the general pattern of granting you great abilities at 3rd level but relatively less impressive abilities later on.

And you are correct about not having to be lawful to be a VMC monk. The only mention of alignment is in the ki pool feature gained at 11th level, where it states that you do not get the ki pool (lawful) improvement unless you are of lawful alignment. I would take that as an indication that you do get everything else.

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Liz -- I think this product needs one of your magical ninja adjustments.

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Dexion1619 wrote:
I think that the Monk Variant Multi-Class gave unarmed strike (Fairly sure someone mentioned that)... but I don't know if it does anything to shore up you're defense.

It gives you unarmed strike at 3rd level, as a monk 2 levels lower.

It gives you a +3 dodge bonus to AC at 15th level, which of course is way too late to plan your build around.

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I thought I should have been one of the last people to get my book shipped since I subscribed literally a day before they started processing the shipments. So the system does not appear to be alphabetical, geographic, or first in/first out.

I wonder if order size has anything to do with it? Maybe the people who only have the Roleplaying Game subscription got their books sent earlier because they didn't have to hold up those orders to add more items to them?

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magnuskn wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
A 50% chance to get reamed by a save or don't play for several hours is bad odds.
You can say that for a lot of classes in Pathfinder, so the Unchained Monk is hardly unique in that respect. I think it'd be a worthwhile topic for the developers how they can give an option on how to prevent such time-outs for players in some future Unchained product.

Did you just give away some future product plans? If so, I am definitely looking forward to Pathfinder Unchained 2.

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Lemmy wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:
OK, one more question: Does every class gain new Groups at 10th, or does it vary by class? From your example, it looks like the Rogue and the Barbarian each got 1 more group than the others you listed.
4 skill and 8 skill classes get a new group at 8th and 18th while the 2 and 6 skill classes only get a new group at 10th.
Huh? Why does the guys with 4 skills get more skill groups than the ones with 6 skill points? Shouldn't the latter be more skilled than the former?

What was left out is that the 2 and 4 skill classes start with 2 groups each and the 6 and 8 skill classes start with 3 groups each, so the 6 skill classes are ahead of the 4 skill classes for 15 out of 20 levels and even for the remaining 5.

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countchocula wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
countchocula wrote:
don't know if this has been addressed but how (or if at all) will the unchained monk effect the prestige class Champion of Irori?

That prestige class is definitely less appealing for the Unchained Monk. The Unchained Monk needs 4 levels rather than 3 to get the Still Mind class feature, but the prestige class itself advances monk abilities that the monk itself still has. The prestige class has full BAB, so it provides no issues to flurry. However, the d8 hit die for the Champion of Irori now seems even more wrong than it did in the original publication, given that entering it via the Unchained Monk class means that you are combining the abilities of two classes with d10 hit dice into a prestige class that has only d8 hit dice.

Thank you for the response so is their any mechanical reason to go COI?

Well, it still provides a way to handle the monk/paladin combination. I have not analyzed the possibilities of using variant multiclassing from monk to paladin or vice versa, but those would be the main alternatives now. In those case, you may not get everything you want from your secondary class though.

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Sorry about that then -- I guess I should have said "Many of the books for April are in the mail on their way to subscribers."

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Page 69, Witch entry: "The bonus from the Flight hex is a +4 racial bonus to Athletics checks to swim." Surely the bonus should be to Acrobatics checks to fly?

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countchocula wrote:
don't know if this has been addressed but how (or if at all) will the unchained monk effect the prestige class Champion of Irori?

That prestige class is definitely less appealing for the Unchained Monk. The Unchained Monk needs 4 levels rather than 3 to get the Still Mind class feature, but the prestige class itself advances monk abilities that the monk itself still has. The prestige class has full BAB, so it provides no issues to flurry. However, the d8 hit die for the Champion of Irori now seems even more wrong than it did in the original publication, given that entering it via the Unchained Monk class means that you are combining the abilities of two classes with d10 hit dice into a prestige class that has only d8 hit dice.

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The problem is that there are far more players than GMs with this product, and not all GMs create their own monsters -- so you have relatively fewer people in any position to judge the quality of that chapter. I can tell you that there is a lot there -- about 60 pages packed with tables, lists, sidebars, and about 10 pages of examples. My GM is looking forward to getting the physical book, but his reaction is based pretty much on what I am posting here now.

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Joe Wells wrote:

It seems to me that WotC, in the 3x and 4 eras at least, produced a rule set, then made adventures to support it.

Paizo seems to produce adventures, and also happen to produce a rule set to support them. This seems like a fundamental difference in their publishing strategies.

I think, at their heart, Paizo wants to write and sell stories.

That doesn't preclude PF2, but it might lengthen the edition cycle quite a bit.

I would agree. WotC came out with 4e and 5e at a point when most of their customers were not ready to move on to a new edition. I think Paizo will wait until there is a general consensus that the rules for Pathfinder need to be cleaned up and consolidated.

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BenKey wrote:
Skaraker, how did you download the PDF and read it? It's not available for another 10 days.

Subscribers get their PDFs when their books ship. The books for April are in the mail on their way to subscribers, so they have their PDFs.

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Most action types are eliminated, and most swift, move, and standard actions become single acts. Casting a standard action spell is two acts, and most full round actions cost three acts. You get three acts each turn.

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Melkiador wrote:

I felt there were only two legitimate issues with the original summoner. The spell list gave buff spells too early. And the eidolon overly favored multiple attack monstrosities. It sounds like the first was addressed. I'm not sure how the second shakes out.

I do hope they didn't slow down the conjuration spells. The summoner should be good at summoning.

The attack evolutions now have subtype requirements, so maxing out your attacks is more difficult.

On the other hand, weapon attacks (including iterative attacks) now do count against the maximum.

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The stamina/combat tricks section is their big boost. This system grants characters a stamina pool that can be used to boost the effects of any combat feats the character has. Since fighters have more combat feats than any other class, they get the most benefit from this system even if you do not explicitly set it up to favor that class. Also, if you want to tack Combat Expertise or other feats that require intelligence of 13+, the stamina/combat trick system lets you ignore that prerequisite as long as you have at least one stimana point left. So, if you weren't already doing so, you can more easily afford to dump intelligence.

The variant multiclassing system requires you to give up your 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th level feats to gain minor benefits from a secondary class. Again, since fighters have the most feats, they can most easily afford to do this.

The various skill options enable characters to get more bang out of their skill allocations, which means they favor the classes with the fewest skill points. Fighters particularly could use the help here.

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johhov wrote:
I don't have the book yet but from what I am seeing in this discussion would standard summoner with the unchained spell list be an acceptable compromise?

I would recommend doing that if you have an eidolon concept that doesn't work with the new rules. Although they are packaged together, the eidolon updates and spell updates are in fact independent of each other.

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Ravingdork wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Fewer options for the eidolon is the unchained summoner working as intended. Both simplifying and nerfing the summoner was the goal from the get-go. Deal with it.

I don't mind a reduction in power. I DO mind that making various concepts will now be much harder, if not impossible; that every summoner is going to be a half elf (even more than before); and that every huge eidolon is going to be incredibly similar and boring to one another.

Good luck making a huge dragon mount with flight and a breath weapon!

10 EP - Huge
04 EP - Breath Weapon
02 EP - Flight
01 EP - Mount


You only get 15 EP at 20th-level.

Take Elemental (Air) as your sub-type -- that gives you 1 extra evolution point at 4th level and supernatural flight at 8th level. Take the Extra Evolution feat at 1st, 5th, 11th, and 15th levels. The eidolon only needs to be Large for a medium humanoid to ride it, so you only need 9 points for your flying dragon mount. That concept can be fully realized at 9th level (7 points base, +1 from subtype, +2 from Extra Evolution feats) -- you only had to wait until that level for the Breath Weapon evolution to become available to you.

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There is one way I could see a Pathfinder 2.0 coming into existence: Through some horrible mismanagement, Paizo goes out of business. Some other company has the money and interest to buy the rights to Pathfinder and the Golarion setting. What do you imagine would be the first thing they start working on?

Frankly, Paizo seems to be running things well enough that they are more likely to face a different problem: As the years on the Golarion calendar advance in real time, several human NPCs described as "young" will reach the point where they must be at least middle-aged, old, or venerable. I can already guess how the people currently there will address it: "You young-uns who took over for us figure it out. We're retired now!"

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I am guessing that they won't expand the basic list, but they may come up with additional feats like Summon Good Monsters that add monsters of a given type to the list.

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Tels wrote:

Very Important Question!

What... is the Stamina option for Crane Style/Crane Wing?

If it's something like "You can spend 5 points from your Fatigue pool to automatically block 1 attack that would hit you when you activate Crane Wing" then someone is going to get a pie in the face.

Then no one should get a pie to the face.

Crane Style lets you spend stamina points to increase the dodge bonus to AC from that feat.

Crane Wing lets you spend stamina points to activate that feat against a second opponent.

Neither feat says anything about automatic blocking.

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Oh -- the Bleeding Critical feat lets you spend stamina points to increase the bleed damage inflicted with this feat.

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Deflect Arrows lets you spend 5 stamina points to deflect an arrow while flat-footed.

Critical Focus lets you spend stamina points under certain conditions to roll a second confirmation roll for even more damage.

I did not see a Critical Bleeding feat mentioned in that section.

Another point of interest -- a fighter using this system can take Combat Expertise and other feats that have an Int 13 requirement without having an intelligence score that high, but he must have at least one unspent stamina point to use any such feats that he has.

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By the way, this book does provide the answer to a trivia question that I don't recall anyone ever asking. According to one piece of artwork in this book, trumpet archons apparently can get tan lines.

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graystone wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
I wrote both of these. Does that make me a biased previewer?
Sigh... Why do you taunt me so! I'm already throwing money at the computer but I'm not getting a book to come out... :P

It requires very precise timing and aim. I managed to start a subscription on the day before the shipment authorizations started, and less than a week later I had my PDF. I have no idea whether subscribing now would get you the PDF before the 29th.

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The rogue is all improvements. Weapon finesse at 1st level, then Dex to damage with three weapons (chosen at 3rd, 11th, and 19th levels). Many rogue talents are redefined (mostly upgrades, but I must admit that I only skimmed them). At 4th level a rogue gains Debilitating Injury, which lets him inflict penalties on targets he successfully sneak attacks. Trap sense is expanded to danger sense, and he gains skill unlock abilities every 5 levels.

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StarMartyr365 wrote:

Is there anything specific to the sorcerer in all this Tome of Chewy Wholesome Goodness?

And is there a variant rage like in Unearthed Arcana?


The revised barbarian class has rage work differently. It would not be too difficult to port that new rage mechanism over to bloodragers and other characters with rage-like abilities.

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SquirrelyOgre wrote:
It's an old horse, but is there anything in there for supporting 4 skill points/level as a minimum? Or what's this I'm hearing about background skills?

All skills are broken into two categories -- background skills and adventuring skills. Everybody gets two extra skill points per level, but those skill points can only be spent on background skills.

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Elandral wrote:
dose the summoner's eidolons subtype determine its base stats ( str , dex etc ...) if so are all of them set at a Int.7 ? Do the sub types come with predetermined attacks and damage or weapons ? Can you still determine what the eidolon looks like or is its appearance predetermined ? Thanks for any info .

Eidolon ability scores are still determined by base form.

Oh -- Aquatic was left out.

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Axial wrote:


Now that I'm reading more and more of this thread, it seems like VMCs are unnecessarily restrictive and that basic class features are stretched out to 19th level. Quite frankly, it doesn't look very appealing.

When does paladin get smite and when does cavalier get challenge?

The paladin gets smite evil 1x/day at level-4 at 11th level.

The cavalier gets challenge 1x/day at level-2 at 3rd level.

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You may also want to take a look at Pathfinder Unchained. Major Magic is one of the rogue talents that got beefed up there -- and if that is not enough, the Multitalented talent gives you even more uses of the chosen spell.

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Robert Brookes wrote:

Out of curiosity, does the rogue's new "Dexterity to damage" ability only work with melee weapons? Only light/finessesble?

My crossbow rogue senses just started tingling.

The dexterity to damage feature applies only to finessable melee weapons. You choose one such weapon each at levels 3, 11, and 19.

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Gisher wrote:

How do VMC abilities stack (or not) with abilities that you already have?

For example:

- A wizard who has a familiar and selects the Witch VMC which also grants a familiar?

- A Slayer who gets sneak attack and selects the Rogue VMC which also grants sneak attack?

Such cases are not explained in the book. Per Mark Seifter's earlier post, I think we are on our own for cases like that.

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Deadkitten wrote:
So if one were to use VMC, could one take the Favored Class bonus of the VMC instead of what their actual class allows?

There is no mention in the book that you can do that.

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Secret Wizard wrote:

Also: I have a player who would like to go with the Bard VMC for our next game, but I haven't been able to find the exact specifications on it --

I see it gives Versatile Performance, Bardic Performance, Bardic Knowledge... at which levels and with which scaling?

I am seriously considering that one myself.

3rd: Bardic Knowledge (full)
7th: Bardic Performance, level - 4, Inspire Courage and Inspire Competence only, limited uses per day
11th: Versatile Performance, one choice only
15th: Lore Master, 1x/day only
19th: Add Dirge of Doom and Inspire Greatness to Bardic Performance options.

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Seelenquell wrote:
Can someone tell me about the background skill option? Thanks!

The Paizo blog gives a pretty good summary:

2nd paizo preview blog

CubeB over at EN World posted more detail here.

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Page 71, footnotes for Table 2-3: Cavalier is included with the classes that get 6+Int mod skill points per level instead of those that get 4+Int mod skill points per level.

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ZanThrax wrote:
Would it be correct to assume that none of the Cha-to-AC revelations are available?

Yes, that would be correct -- neither of the Cha-to-AC revelations from the hardbacks are in the lists of level multiclass revelations.

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The VMC magus can use Spellstrike only with spells that are on the magus spell list. It does not matter what class (arcane or divine) he gets that spell from.

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Milo v3 wrote:
Anyone know if the book will go on the PRD on the 29th or afterwards?

On the 29th? Not likely.

Afterwards? So far every hardback book has been added to the PRD at some point after its street date.

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There are also a couple of subtler losses: Maneuver Mastery is lost (it is unnecessary for a full BAB monk class, but it locks out those nice monk archetypes that replace it), and many class features that used to work automatically or at will have become ki powers that you must select and expend ki points to use.

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Dread Knight wrote:

When you VMC Paladin do you gain the alignment restriction?

Also is VMC just all in or nothing or could you say just choose to get a Paladin's Lay on Hands feature?

Alignment isn't mentioned for any variant multiclass option -- I am not sure whether they are ignored or assumed. However, the paladin is mentioned as having to adhere to the paladin code of conduct from 1st level.

The secondary class is an all or nothing choice as written -- you forfeit your feats at 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th levels and gain specific abilities from your secondary class at those levels instead. For some classes, you gain restrictions and minor abilities at 1st level, although some do not seem to matter (such as a VMC monk wearing armor losing his monk abilities if he wears armor -- never mind that he has no monk abilities until 3rd level).

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Dustin Ashe wrote:
I suppose it's possible to say the Arcadians today are a mix of two cultures: the original Arcadian natives and old Azlanti colonists. Would that work?

Since Arcadia has not yet been detailed, the local ethnicities should certainly include at least one type of "purebred" native along with various mixtures with Azlanti and other foreign ethnicities. If there is only one purebred native ethnicity, it should be at least as internally diverse as the Mwangi of Garund.

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Endzeitgeist -- Shield Marshal is the correct name for the referenced prestige class in Paths of Prestige. d20pfsrd calls that class the "Grand Marshal", perhaps because of their inability to use the Pathfinder Compatibility license (which it appears that this product is using).

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Alexander Augunas wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Nah, I'm not expecting spells. That doesn't change the fact that slapping a bloodline or a mystery on a wizard is going to be more useful to that wizard than some feats.
Mysteries are Charisma-based: not useful for the wizard.

Not all of them are charisma based -- some of them reference no stats at all. You just have to be very picky about which revelations you take.

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I think I see some opportunities for 3rd party publishers here. Publishers who came up with their own base classes may want to come up with variant multiclassing for their own classes (once they get an idea how it can be done from this book). And we already know that the stamina system will leave out many combat feats, whether by Paizo or by other publishers -- and surely somebody will want to fill in those gaps.

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