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Alurad Sorizan

David Bowles's page

FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,556 posts. 3 reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 9 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Silver Crusade **

Artanthos wrote:
At higher level, more opponents will have multiple attacks.

So? It doesn't mean a "Get out jail free card" was ever balanced. I think that changing this feat could have been easily justified without MoMS.

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I don't think Crane Wing was ever balanced, myself.

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Michael Brock wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
PFS is going to shrink some.
We are about to add VCs in Argentina, India, and Hong Kong. We shall see......

Locations may continue to increase, but current locations will almost certainly lose some players to 5th. I have already seen it happening in Ohio. However, the effects of this can be greatly mitigated by the awareness of this likely outcome. The bottom line is that I expect 5th ed to be eventually crippled by Hasbro's expectations of dominance.

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5th is going to get a lot of players. PFS is going to shrink some. In other news, water is wet.

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I myself save broken builds for video games, not tabletop RPGs. It's not that I can't do it. I choose not to.

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My ranger has his Goz Mask at the ready. :)

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jason Wu wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
redward wrote:
Game Master wrote:
redward wrote:
Game Master wrote:
Part of the fun is contributing meaningfully. Like it or not, it's impossible to enjoy combat if on my turn, I move and deal eleven damage, eating an AoO from the monster's 20 ft. reach, and the archer hits three targets for eighty-nine damage each.
Sure but at some point the player of that archer has to take some responsibility for the enjoyment of his fellow players and dial it back if necessary.
It is not, and never should be, the responsibility of the player to intentioanlly handicap himself in order to make the game fun for his friends.

In the context of PFS I will have to disagree.

Creating a character that can trivialize a PFS scenario is not particularly difficult. If everyone at the table wants to play "who can one-shot the bad guy first" then that's fine. Otherwise, some consideration needs to be given to the other players.

Declaring yourself the hero of the story and relegating everyone else to sidekick if they're not willing to compete is an incredibly selfish approach to what is supposed to be a cooperative experience.

But a perfectly legal one.

Not in PFS.

That whole "don't be a jerk" thing.

-j

Massive powergamer who nearly always dials it back in play to make sure everyone gets to participate.

I still debate the enforcability of that "rule".

Silver Crusade **

redward wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
redward wrote:
Game Master wrote:
redward wrote:
Game Master wrote:
Part of the fun is contributing meaningfully. Like it or not, it's impossible to enjoy combat if on my turn, I move and deal eleven damage, eating an AoO from the monster's 20 ft. reach, and the archer hits three targets for eighty-nine damage each.
Sure but at some point the player of that archer has to take some responsibility for the enjoyment of his fellow players and dial it back if necessary.
It is not, and never should be, the responsibility of the player to intentioanlly handicap himself in order to make the game fun for his friends.

In the context of PFS I will have to disagree.

Creating a character that can trivialize a PFS scenario is not particularly difficult. If everyone at the table wants to play "who can one-shot the bad guy first" then that's fine. Otherwise, some consideration needs to be given to the other players.

Declaring yourself the hero of the story and relegating everyone else to sidekick if they're not willing to compete is an incredibly selfish approach to what is supposed to be a cooperative experience.

But a perfectly legal one.
Sure, until everyone else walks away and you're two players and one GM short of a table.

For all the blustering on these boards, I have NEVER seen this happen. I think its because no one realizes what's up until halfway through. I personally have been a basically useless sidekick many times.

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
redward wrote:
Game Master wrote:
redward wrote:
Game Master wrote:
Part of the fun is contributing meaningfully. Like it or not, it's impossible to enjoy combat if on my turn, I move and deal eleven damage, eating an AoO from the monster's 20 ft. reach, and the archer hits three targets for eighty-nine damage each.
Sure but at some point the player of that archer has to take some responsibility for the enjoyment of his fellow players and dial it back if necessary.
It is not, and never should be, the responsibility of the player to intentioanlly handicap himself in order to make the game fun for his friends.

In the context of PFS I will have to disagree.

Creating a character that can trivialize a PFS scenario is not particularly difficult. If everyone at the table wants to play "who can one-shot the bad guy first" then that's fine. Otherwise, some consideration needs to be given to the other players.

Declaring yourself the hero of the story and relegating everyone else to sidekick if they're not willing to compete is an incredibly selfish approach to what is supposed to be a cooperative experience.

But a perfectly legal one.

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Sometimes I ask how many animal companions I get to kill this table. All in jest, of course.

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The mathematics of several challenging encounters dispersed throughout the various scenarios can't be denied. Admittedly, the new pregens are BETTER, but I'm still not comfortable in tier 8-9 or 10-11 with them.

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Fomsie wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
It's not enjoyable if Harsk causes my real PC to become road pizza. Unless the Campaign leadership wants to hand out free rezzes because their terrible pregen lead to my PCs death.
David Bowles wrote:


You may not agree with my position, but what exactly did I write that qualifies as an "excuse"? Excuse for what? Do I need an excuse to politely decline a table?
It is not the pregen causing your death, not how it is built, anyway. That is the excuse I am referring to.

It certainly can be. Not very often, but some scenarios require total party effort. Something like Sealed Gate comes to mind. A party member that can't contribute to party effort can cause an encounter to break against the PCs.

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Artoo wrote:
Damanta wrote:
Did you look at the updated pregen sheets yet? Harsk starts out with rapid reload: heavy crossbow at one, meaning he can both load (move action) and shoot (standard action) in a single round. No longer do you have to be loading your crossbow an entire round.
Huh, interesting. I thought he didn't have that until the 4th level version. That does help quite a bit.

But crossbows are still awful. That's going to be an issue no matter how many feats they slather on.

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Fomsie wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:

For those who don't want to constantly and continually fight with me regarding the pregens, take a moment to read the advice given throughout this thread and see if you can incorporate it into your games. I think you'll find that the pregens, even Harsk, can be played effectively. They won't compete with your player-built characters for support, AoE, DPR, etc. (hint: they aren't expected to), but they can provide an enjoyable experience.

Explore! Report! Cooperate!

There is no hope for Harsk. I really feel like you are trying way too hard here. It's not enjoyable if Harsk causes my real PC to become road pizza. Unless the Campaign leadership wants to hand out free rezzes because their terrible pregen lead to my PCs death.

While I agree that Harsk is not optimally built, that doesn't cause your death, and that excuse is ridiculous.

Some of the pregens are not well designed, but I have seen player characters that are similar or even worse. Amazingly enough not everyone who plays PFS makes characters based on crunching numbers.

My experience with pregens is that they are often good, simple ways to introduce people to the game and that many people who play them are often more "heroic" (or reckless) and self sacrificing with the pregen because of their temporary nature, and they tend to be far more willing to "take one for the team".

You may not agree with my position, but what exactly did I write that qualifies as an "excuse"? Excuse for what? Do I need an excuse to politely decline a table?

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A GM being qualified to run Bonekeep doesn't really mean much to me. A high star GM could just have easily made the same mistake 100 times rather than actually learning anything. Some GMs just are more concerned about running the games accurately than others. That's just the bottom line.

And mistakes that cost players 16 PP are not appreciated. Despite the claims of GM 101.

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Bob Jonquet wrote:

For those who don't want to constantly and continually fight with me regarding the pregens, take a moment to read the advice given throughout this thread and see if you can incorporate it into your games. I think you'll find that the pregens, even Harsk, can be played effectively. They won't compete with your player-built characters for support, AoE, DPR, etc. (hint: they aren't expected to), but they can provide an enjoyable experience.

Explore! Report! Cooperate!

There is no hope for Harsk. I really feel like you are trying way too hard here. It's not enjoyable if Harsk causes my real PC to become road pizza. Unless the Campaign leadership wants to hand out free rezzes because their terrible pregen lead to my PCs death.

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Bob Jonquet wrote:

With a little tactical forethought, you can mitigate may of the penalties he incurs.

Firing into melee? Delay and have your companions step back from the enemy after they have attacked.

Friendly cover in the way? Again, coordinated movement. Also, he's a ranger which should mean tracking and usually leading the party's formation. Firing with everyone behind you can mitigate the issue and then the melee'ers can charge in.

Its really no different than the struggles that other characters face. Merisiel depends heavily on flanking. Casters have to avoid companions or suffer collateral AoE damage. Clerics have to selectively channel or be careful where they stand so as to not provoke when trying to apply touch healing. Everyone has their subtle challenges to overcome. Often times, the complaints stem from lazy gaming.

I really don't want to fan the flames of pregen hate again. All, I'm saying is that too often the pregens are too harshly judged because they cannot just smash everything in the face until it coughs up loot.

I judge them harshly because a) they often can't pull their weight and b) the players using them often don't try very hard because they have nothing at stake.

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Hell, half the scenarios I run I don't end up remember well at all anyway.

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Seconded.

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Finlanderboy wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
That being said, there are certain types of GMs where this approach is practically necessary.
thoe should not be GMs.

Only in a perfect world.

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My dwarf uses a shortbow. The dwarf in the Hobbit move uses a shortbow. I don't see an issue. It does no good to have an "iconic" character no one wants to use.

Either that, or make crossbows non-terrible.

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1 person marked this as a favorite.

That being said, there are certain types of GMs where this approach is practically necessary.

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Shortbow? Crossbows are so bad that I've let them hit touch AC inside 30 ft in my homebrews and they still suck.

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How about not using a crossbow?

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2 people marked this as a favorite.

I completely disagree. Cash is the most valuable commodity in PFS, not PP. Saving up for 10K+ items is much more difficult if you are constantly buying expensive consumables with PP. A one shot consumable that might save the party a death or multiple deaths is well worth it.

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1 person marked this as a favorite.

Why are potions bad? What's better? The 750 gp cap doesn't really give you much to work with.

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My magus taxis all kinds of PCs with dimension door. In fact, he taxis all melee PCs that aren't the favored few with access to pounce or whatever it is the barbarian build has. To be fair, however, any obstacle in the charge lanes makes it so everyone wants a taxi.

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Monks are better in homebrews. Period. You can make much better use of their mechanical tools in a free form game. Need to know where the slavers are based? Have the monk pretend to be rabble and get grabbed by the slavers with some kind of homing magic on him/her. Monks can escape bonds and beat up bozos with their bare hands. This kind of stuff almost never comes up in PFS. The railroad tracks drive standard monks right into the ditch. That's my 2 cents.

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2 people marked this as a favorite.
Brian Fruzen wrote:
The prior missions usually make the "missing" Pathfinder completely inconsequential to the real mission. It's more along the lines of "oh, that's what happened to them. Moving on now." It would be great to have a quest where you need to slug someone's body over your shoulders and bring it back for a resurrection or proper burial and really drive home the value of all that prestige you've been accumulating.

This is what I'm talking about. The corpses ARE the MacGuffin.

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3 people marked this as a favorite.

I meant a mission where the ONLY mission is body retrieval.

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3 people marked this as a favorite.

I think this should be a scenario.

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My archer ranger undead hunter has a holy bow. The real advantage is that I can still do good damage against evil targets even without deadly aim. I can turn off deadly aim against evil targets with very high AC if necessary.

My big vice is that I pour money into resistance cloaks on every PC. And all my martials have adamantine weapons. A bit cookie-cutterish but I'm also playing the odds. Maybe that's why my martial PCs' DPRs always lack behind.

Silver Crusade **

How does it stack up against a cat? Which isn't even a full PC. That's the real question.

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
If the choice is between banning MoMS from PFS or officially nerfing every new style feat that comes out, then my vote is for the MoMS ban. PFS should not impact people playing at home trying to follow the rules.
Uh, PFS had nothing to do with the "change" to Pummeling Style. At all. It was a legitimately unclear feat that had clarification added to it.
I wholly blame PFS for the nerf to the Crane Style line of feats.

Boo hoo. Crane style is still good. There should not have been feats that can negate a vital strike from a greater demon swinging at +40 in the first place.

Silver Crusade **

Oh, I never thought of it like that.

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As I said, a huge creature base skeleton would still be worthwhile. But not the base skeletons.

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Really, it's also interesting to play a specialist other than conjurer, evoker, or diviner.

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Yeah, level 3, 5, 7, and 9 are frequently "don't care" levels.

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It's just money I never have to dish out, I guess. I'll settle for mostly neutering undead-based scenarios instead of total domination. I'll use the animate dead slot for persistent command undead, and undead BBEGs can bend over and take it.

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According to Nefreet, you can't animate giants because the template is illegal.

So it's better for me to have to magic jar every BBEG? Okay, challenged accepted. If I were campaign leadership, I would have banned that spell and kept the variant undead. But it's their world...

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Well that's completely lame, but I'll just settle for controlling what shows up in the scenarios I guess. And being a wizard. I guess I'm going to have to look into the obnoxious magic jar scheme some more too.

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Frankly, the opportunity to use animate dead in a meaningful way is so low anyway that it's not even close to the main focus of my PC. If I have to, I'll strip the flesh with decompose corpse and use standard skeletons. They are still potent with high HD monsters.

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Nefreet wrote:
Alex McGuire wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Malag wrote:
variant skeleton rules are acceptable and you can raise bloody skeletons and fast zombies. I am fairly sure (around 95% sure) that you can choose to raise such minions

If the rules for animating such undead are available in a legal source, then yes, absolutely.

However, I am unaware of any such sources.

Its in the template for Zombie/Skeleton, which we do have access to (otherwise we couldn't animate anything at all).

The problem being that that template is not legal.

All you get is a vanilla Skeleton or Zombie, as detailed in the Animate Dead spell from the Core Rulebook.

I did quite a bit of research on this when I was looking to make a Necromancer myself, and I was discouraged enough by the lack of allowed materials to go a different route.

Why isn't it legal?

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Mistwalker, level 2's used to get full tier 4-5 money. They'd swarm a season 0 or 1 with seven level 2's, get it bumped to APL 3 with the old +1 adjustment and then play up and get their 1800 gps at level 2.

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nosig wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.

But the same thing could be said about having 7th level PCs at a Sub-Tier 10-11 game.

Or would it be better to have some 10th level Pregens available?

By my own logic, it would be better to have 10th level pregens. Because, yes, I've seen 7th level PCs get into serious trouble at tier 10-11.

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Slacker2010 wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.

What about if the group wants to play and they need the 4th character Pregen or the table doesn't make? I dont think you should take that option away from those players.

If you dont want to play at a table with a pregen then you can walk away. Dont need to make any limiting rules.

True, I just think it would be for the best, just as how they put the hammer down on level twos getting able to get full sub tier 4-5 money. As it stands, I do just leave those tables.

Silver Crusade **

Pregens should be banned from tier 7-11. That's all. No other restrictions other than the ones in place. Even more specifically, maybe it's more accurate to say I think tier 7-8 is fine for them, but not 10-11. So maybe just subtier 10-11. Because that is not remotely fair to the players putting their 10-11 real PCs on the line.

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My point is that I'd rather have a PC that is better at everything compared to a pregen. Sadly, this is not often difficult to accomplish.

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I think the best plan is to just have a single animate ready to go if a juicy target appears. Load all other slots with wizard stuff. Note that most sentient races make terrible undead due to low racial HD. Go for the giant vermin and other monsters and no one should care.

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The theory is that a bard or mindchemist can blow Harsk away on skills and still contribute more to the combat.

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