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Alurad Sorizan

David Bowles's page

FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,117 posts. 1 review. 1 list. No wishlists. 7 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Silver Crusade *

Slacker2010 wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Slacker2010 wrote:

Remove Gunslingers.

Or fix them by not allowing them to hit touch AC.

Guns should be adept at penetrating armor. Besides, if we get rid of gunslingers or their touch AC shenanigans, what will I template my NPCs with in home games with lots of pets?
Why should black powder guns be adapt at penetrating armor?

Because they were?

Silver Crusade *

"but the bloodline abilities are just better than existing rage powers"

At least this is a subjective matter. The bloodrager is not STRICTLY better; it is better because those abilities are perceived to be better. I find this to be the case of many comparisons, however.

For example, I prefer arcane casters that cast a lot of buffs and utility spells that don't require SR checks. This does not make those spells strictly better than blasting spells. Just better in my estimation.

Of course, martials are more locked in with what they can do than casters are, but there is a large diversity of builds through feats and things like rage powers.

Silver Crusade *

"How long do you think it'll take for this to turn into a paladin hate thread? If we can't go at least 25 posts (real ones, not posts just to get the post count up because I said that) without an anti-paladin rant, then I'll make a new aasimar paladin, just to cheese those people off. :P"

Just to point it out: it's a summoner/gunslinger hate thread. Myth busted :)

Silver Crusade *

" a utility magus, a tank magus, a mobility magus,"

Mine's a bit of all of these.

Silver Crusade *

I just consciously chose not to use magical lineage nor intensified spell. So my magus can't really do anything that people expect them to.

Silver Crusade *

They should have halved the bonuses in order to make it a synthesis between magic power and rage power.

Silver Crusade *

Slacker2010 wrote:

Remove Gunslingers.

Or fix them by not allowing them to hit touch AC.

Guns should be adept at penetrating armor. Besides, if we get rid of gunslingers or their touch AC shenanigans, what will I template my NPCs with in home games with lots of pets?

Silver Crusade *

I think they should have made the rage less effective then.

Silver Crusade *

The Morphling wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
Magus never even noticed
Do they ever?
No. We dump Wisdom, so our perception skill is very low.

Maybe that's my problem. My magus has a +17 perception.

Silver Crusade *

My summoner solves this by having an eidolon with one attack and cowering on his actual turn. But he's not winning any dpr awards. Come to think of it, none of my PCs are.

Silver Crusade *

Jiggy wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
I cast disintegrate pet! It functions like disintegrate except it can only target animals, vermin, or outsiders. And it's 1st-level.

Are you aware that you're in the Society section of the boards?

That line was a joke. I wasn't actually suggesting bringing in homebrew spells. I thought that was clear, but I guess not. Sorry for the confusion.

I thought it was funny. But I don't NEED such a spell in homebrew. The GM retains their godly powers in homebrew. I just empirically determine the party's TRUE APL which could be anything from APL-2 ish to APL+5 ish.

Silver Crusade *

The Morphling wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Year of the Demon loled at shocking grasps.

Rod of Elemental Spell laughed at the Year of the Demon.

(Seriously, my Magus never even noticed. Acid Resist 10? Ok, here's 89 damage.)

Fair enough.

Silver Crusade *

" "completely destroy my suspension of disbelief""

Mine was destroyed when the medium-sized humans are fighting huge-sized fire giants and winning. But it's still hella-fun. Gunslingers don't bother me at all.

Silver Crusade *

" to be honest EVERY class is invalidated by the existence of summoners. "

I've seen animal companions that your typical eidolon would struggle to even hit. Who's the real melee monster? Protip: the one that gets barding to stack on top of their huge natural AC bonus.

Another problem with summoners: who wears the cloak of resistance? The other one is going to get hosed by save or suck spells quite often. Sharing the item slots is a much bigger deal than I realized before playing one.

I'll take a Sylvan sorcerer over a summoner any day of the week.

Silver Crusade *

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
andreww wrote:
The problems with rogues are pretty well known by now. They are a primarily melee class with only 3/4 BaB,
I would say that you summed up the actual problem with Rogues that plagues the forums perfectly, in that people continue to mistake the Rogue for a primary melee class. Rogues are not Fighters with a crapload more skills. Rogues are just fine, and still a pretty commonly seen and fun class.

Rogues have poor fort and will saves. That's one foot in the coffin at mid level right there. I don't think it's accurate at all to call rogues "just fine" from a balance perspective.

And yes, let's not derail.

Silver Crusade *

Well, it DOES irritate me that the rogue got dumped on so badly. At least this isn't a competitive game like Warhammer or something. If people enjoy playing rogues, flawed as they are, then rogues are still doing that right.

I guess the ultimate litmus test will be the advanced class guide. But I don't really think that the classes they have rolled out since the CRB, as a group, are more powerful than the core classes.

The general options provided by splat books are where I think most of the creep comes from. For example, the CRB has no solutions to incorporeal as efficient as ghost salts.

Silver Crusade *

Year of the Demon loled at shocking grasps.

Silver Crusade *

I think plenty of base classes still have plenty of punch: cleric, wizard, druid, paladin, bard, etc.

Again, rogue has been invalidated since archaeologist bard came out. No one cared then, why should we now?

Fighter is largely invalidated in PFS because of the ubiquity of evil NPCs that become paladin smite fodder. And because of easily-accessed pets whose stats are too high.

Silver Crusade *

Walter Sheppard wrote:

There aren't any classes I'd ban, but there are a few things I'd like examined.

Look at the following as an example.

The rogue (CRB) can take rogue talents at level 2 and every two levels thereafter. These two talents exist, minor magic and major magic. The first allows you to take a single 0-level spell as an SLA three times per day. The second allows you to take a single 1st level spell as an SLA two times per day. Let us assume that the rogue selects vanish as this spell.

Let's move forward and now look at the ninja (UC). The ninja has access to a new ninja trick starting at level 2 and every two levels thereafter. There is a trick called vanishing trick that allows the ninja to cast vanish as a swift action a number of times per day equal to 1/2 her level + CHA. This is 1/day minimum and scales as the ninja levels up. I'd say that this is better in every regard than the rogue's options listed above to try and accomplish the same thing.

Lastly, let's examine the bloodrager (ACG) for a moment. The bloodrager selects a bloodline, and that bloodline defines some of the abilities the class grants as they increase in level. The arcane bloodline enables a bloodrager to cast a 2nd level spell when they enter rage at level 4, and cast an additional 3rd level spell when they rage at level 8. In addition, all bloodragers get Greater Bloodrage, which allows them to cast another spell on themselves when they rage. That spell must be 2nd level or lower. A bloodrager can rage for an amount of rounds per day equal to 4 + Con modifier + (2*level) rounds per day. Now this class is only released as a playtest now, but let us assume that it remains relatively unchanged before release.

So between the three, we have.
Rogue (CRB) - twice per day as a standard action, cast a first level spell
Ninja (UC) - CHA + (0.5*level) per day as a swift action, cast a first level spell
Bloodrager (ACG) - CON + 4 + (2*level) per day as a non-action, cast two second level spells and a third...

Power creep in hard to stop, but notice that SOME core classes are not being invalidated. The ones that were designed well to begin with. Rogue and all its derivatives are tainted with a virus called teh suck.

Silver Crusade *

Matrix Dragon wrote:
I just don't get it when people complain that eidolons are more powerful than animal companions. The eidolon is the main point of being a summoner, while every class that uses an animal companion gets them as a secondary feature. I would be increadily disapointed in the summoner class if the eidolon was any weaker than it currently is.

This. This ^ 10. I personally don't think the gap is large enough, but mainly because I think animal companions are far too strong. Who needs my level 7 fighter? We've got a cat!

Silver Crusade *

"1. They almost never keep track of summoning notes, as such they often bog the game down.

2. Eidolons are horribly powerful in the hands of a minorly competent summoner. If you know how to build your Eidolon, its incredibly obnoxious, and deffinitly more powerful than most animal companions.

3. Access to feats to add more power to their eidolon while their eidolon ALSO gains access to feats."

This is also true for druids, animal domain clerics, mad dog barbarians, and sylvan sorcerers. Animal companions get large size for free, and have access to monster feats. I honestly don't see the difference between an eidolon that eats a scenario and an animal companion that eats a scenario. Except the fact that the druid can fill the table with summons on top of the animal companion. So the druid is actually guilty of #5 on top of numbers 1-3.

Silver Crusade *

" They both attack on touch AC but often against monsters like dragons and demons they must contend with spell resistance or magical deflection which can hamper them"

Arcane blasters' dpr does go down the toilet against evil outsiders.

Silver Crusade *

Prethen wrote:
PrinceRaven wrote:
So we're setting our arbitrary cut-off point for when a class is too powerful based on an average PC of that class, rather than an optimised one?

Yes, this was my initial intention for this thread. I assume that just about any and every class can be super optimized. I think that's to be expected to some extent. I suppose that I could have reworded my question to ask what base classes do you feel might be a mistake to be sanctioned in view of fair and balanced play in PFS?

So far, it looks like Gunslinger and Summoner are neck-and-neck. I'm a little surprised that the Magus didn't get a bit more infamy here.

The magus is pretty weak sauce compared to the gunslinger and pet classes. Also, many dubious magus builds are built around a dubious feat: dervish dance. Being forced to two-weapon fight is inherently limiting, in my opinion.

Silver Crusade *

Because they're core! At least that's what they say about the druid.

Silver Crusade *

My confused archer ranger actually DID kill my own party member once.

Silver Crusade *

DesolateHarmony wrote:
I just ran a scenario with two Erinyes devils. Almost a TPK from the ranged power they had.

Again, monsters for the win, NPCs for teh suck.

Silver Crusade *

Good, because NPCs have a lot of bad karma to make up for in PFS. Plenty of dangerous fights with monsters, but NPCs have a tendency to get rofl stomped. I guess the bottom line is that it is possible for monsters to be inaccurately priced in terms of CR, but that's not really possible for NPCs. I think NPCs need a boost vis a vis monsters.

Silver Crusade *

"Often encounters get limited by map size in Society play. This makes it difficult to design encounters with effected ranged participants"

Really? Doesn't stop all the archery builds from murderizing the typical scenario. I'm still waiting for an NPC with access to fickle winds, fly, and ranged weapons.

For ranged NPCs, just photocopy some of the archery builds you see PCs use.

Silver Crusade *

They are kinda feast or famine in my experience. They don't appear often, but the ones I have faced have been pretty brutal.

Silver Crusade *

Paladins don't look so great against the legions of neutrality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxK_nA2iVXw

Silver Crusade *

In a home game, animal companions are totally not a problem. Bring all you like. I'll just keep piling on the CR to the encounters.

Silver Crusade *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sniggevert wrote:
David Bowles wrote:

" pouncing monstrosity with 11 attacks,"

The eidolon table prevents this from being legal.

It prevents it from gaining 11 NATURAL attacks...quadreped with multiple limb,arms evolutions could pull it off I bet.

I had a 5th level summoner with 6 sword attacks this past weekend.

Okay, I surrender in the cheese wars.

Silver Crusade *

" pouncing monstrosity with 11 attacks,"

The eidolon table prevents this from being legal.

Silver Crusade *

trollbill wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Well, from examining the thread carefully, it appears that summoner is the hands down favorite, with gunslinger number two. I understand the reasoning behind the summoner, I just don't understand why animal companions get a free pass from the posting community.

Damage reduction.

The really good critters have multiple attacks, and few good ways to get around the rather ubiquitous damage reduction that the scenarios throw at us. DR makes multi attacking critters DPR drop. Your amulet of mighty fists can hit +3 but thats near the end of the game.

Eidolons suffer the same DR woes that animal companions do.

Almost half the scenarios I've run with my summoner to date have involved monsters with DR, starting with all three of the scenarios she ran at 1st level.

You can arm Eidolons with special material weapons.

Not pouncing quadrupeds. I have a summoner with a bipedal Eidolon who will be using manufactured weapons, and animal companions make that character look stupidly ineffective.

Silver Crusade *

trollbill wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Well, from examining the thread carefully, it appears that summoner is the hands down favorite, with gunslinger number two.

Now if I could just get my Eidolon a musket...

Quote:
I understand the reasoning behind the summoner, I just don't understand why animal companions get a free pass from the posting community.
Probably because this thread is about which 'one' character class you would ban and there are several character classes that get animal companions.

Fair enough.

Silver Crusade *

Muser wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
The Hao-Jin tapestry thing is a very good point, but the rest of what you listed is rarely an issue. The "attack anything" trick pretty much nerfs auras and handle animal is not a barrier for animal companions.
I respectfully disagree, but that's beside the point. Eidolons don't have any of these issues and in fact function very much like a secondary character.

I'm not sure what there is to disagree about. Sure, auras that force saving throws vs will are decent against animal companions, but the "attack anything" trick (at least with every GM I've played with) overcomes all other concerns about being animal.

Yeah, eidolons don't have these problems, but eidolons aren't available to cleric, sorcerers, barbarians, and rangers.

Silver Crusade *

The Hao-Jin tapestry thing is a very good point, but the rest of what you listed is rarely an issue. The "attack anything" trick pretty much nerfs auras and handle animal is not a barrier for animal companions.

Silver Crusade *

Fromper wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Well, from examining the thread carefully, it appears that summoner is the hands down favorite, with gunslinger number two. I understand the reasoning behind the summoner, I just don't understand why animal companions get a free pass from the posting community.

Damage reduction.

The really good critters have multiple attacks, and few good ways to get around the rather ubiquitous damage reduction that the scenarios throw at us. DR makes multi attacking critters DPR drop. Your amulet of mighty fists can hit +3 but thats near the end of the game.

Yup. Druid animal companions are awesome at low levels, but they become less effective starting around level 5, because their damage output just can't keep up.

People keep telling me this, but it doesn't seem to work out in practice. Level 7 is when many animals get their free size upgrade and get a huge STR boost. That seems to help a lot.

Silver Crusade *

BigNorseWolf wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Well, from examining the thread carefully, it appears that summoner is the hands down favorite, with gunslinger number two. I understand the reasoning behind the summoner, I just don't understand why animal companions get a free pass from the posting community.

Damage reduction.

The really good critters have multiple attacks, and few good ways to get around the rather ubiquitous damage reduction that the scenarios throw at us. DR makes multi attacking critters DPR drop. Your amulet of mighty fists can hit +3 but thats near the end of the game.

Maybe. But animals can power attack with their enormous strength stat and just power through it. I can make the same argument for multi-attacking eidolons, too.

Silver Crusade *

Well, from examining the thread carefully, it appears that summoner is the hands down favorite, with gunslinger number two. I understand the reasoning behind the summoner, I just don't understand why animal companions get a free pass from the posting community.

Silver Crusade *

I don't understand how gunslingers are any worse than Zen archers, fighter archers, or other optimized archery builds. Is it the touch AC thing?

Silver Crusade *

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Page of spell knowledge is pretty cheap for a summoner, considering he never has to go above 6th level prices on it.

Fair enough. Please note that I'm not denying that the summoner is a very powerful class: it is. However, the ability of many classes to access the animal companion, and the animal companion's very generous advancement table make it more abusive in my book. By a nose, if you will.

If other classes had access to the eidolon, I would 100% agree. But summoners can't compete with clerics and sorcerers with full-powered animal companions.

At the very least, boon companion should be banned.

Silver Crusade *

TriOmegaZero wrote:
And then he 1-round casts more summon spells if he wants.

If he knows that spell.

Silver Crusade *

"A summoner cannot have more than one summon monster or gate spell active in this way at one time."

Okay, that gets the summoner one extra summons on the table. The druid is still not limited in any way. And doesn't have to give up a spell slot to do it.

Silver Crusade *

Grab is a free grapple attempt. If the AoMF doesn't apply to grapple, then it doesn't apply to grab, either.

Silver Crusade *

" Treat this as if you had summoned your eidolon normally"

That language, to me, precludes the summoner from using their SLA to summon monsters. This language also precludes the usage of augment summoning.

Silver Crusade *

I wouldn't remove a class, but I would remove animal companions. 100% pure unadulterated cheese. Classes with access to animal companions are worse than summoners in my experience, because the class with the animal is almost always better than the summoner, a life support class for the eidolon. I can get a full-powered sorcerer with a full-powered animal. Yeah....

"and they are much more powerful than a Durid's Animal Companion."

Not really. That's the sad part. And the summoner has to share equipment slots. The druid doesn't. The animal companions gets a free size increase. Eidolons have to pay. The druid can wild shape and summon additional creatures while their pet is active. The summoner has to specifically learn summon monster to do that and sacrifice a precious spell known. And can't wild shape.

Bottom line line is that I can fill the table with summons with a mid-level druid, which is automatic flanking for my pet and flanking for many of the summoned creatures. Your typical summoner can't do anything like this since they banned master summoner.

"In all the PFS tables I've been at, the class has been the most responsible for the "unhappy face" worn by fellow PCs when they are sitting next to a summoner with a souped up eidolon, especially at low levels."

Animal companions for me. There's nothing worse than having newer players completely shown up by a cat. Even worse, experienced players' characters shown up by a cat. Both have happened. I think most Ohio players are just kinda numb to it now.

Silver Crusade *

I know I am but one small voice in the gallery, but I applaud this move. Shaking up organized play is necessary to keep it interesting. Tieflings and Aasimars do have mechanical advantages, and I have seen more of them than most core non-human races. I doubt that was the intent when these races were opened up and I fully support management's decision to restrict these races.

Silver Crusade *

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't have any tieflings or aasimars and I don't feel like I've really missed anything.

Silver Crusade *

Mark Seifter wrote:
It depends on the number of enemies around, but I've definitely seen daylight dispel wars work to the PCs' advantage. Typically it takes a higher percentage of the enemies' actions to down the daylight than it does for the PCs to put it back up. For instance, I've seen prepared PCs cripple the damage rate of a small group of babaus because the babaus were forced to go for a roughly 50/50 dispel chance to bring the light level back down to what they preferred, thus losing 1 or 2 babau actions each round to the PCs' 1 action (and they had more PCs than babaus too).

First off, babaus don't even have deeper darkness, so all you need is regular old darkvision. Tieflings and Aasimars laugh at them. Secondly, babaus might have dispel magic, but most other critters can only dispel with darkness spells, which means they have to touch. Which is a losing proposition.

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