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Okay, I surrender in the cheese wars.
Not pouncing quadrupeds. I have a summoner with a bipedal Eidolon who will be using manufactured weapons, and animal companions make that character look stupidly ineffective.
I'm not sure what there is to disagree about. Sure, auras that force saving throws vs will are decent against animal companions, but the "attack anything" trick (at least with every GM I've played with) overcomes all other concerns about being animal.
Yeah, eidolons don't have these problems, but eidolons aren't available to cleric, sorcerers, barbarians, and rangers.
People keep telling me this, but it doesn't seem to work out in practice. Level 7 is when many animals get their free size upgrade and get a huge STR boost. That seems to help a lot.
Maybe. But animals can power attack with their enormous strength stat and just power through it. I can make the same argument for multi-attacking eidolons, too.
Page of spell knowledge is pretty cheap for a summoner, considering he never has to go above 6th level prices on it.
Fair enough. Please note that I'm not denying that the summoner is a very powerful class: it is. However, the ability of many classes to access the animal companion, and the animal companion's very generous advancement table make it more abusive in my book. By a nose, if you will.
If other classes had access to the eidolon, I would 100% agree. But summoners can't compete with clerics and sorcerers with full-powered animal companions.
At the very least, boon companion should be banned.
I wouldn't remove a class, but I would remove animal companions. 100% pure unadulterated cheese. Classes with access to animal companions are worse than summoners in my experience, because the class with the animal is almost always better than the summoner, a life support class for the eidolon. I can get a full-powered sorcerer with a full-powered animal. Yeah....
"and they are much more powerful than a Durid's Animal Companion."
Not really. That's the sad part. And the summoner has to share equipment slots. The druid doesn't. The animal companions gets a free size increase. Eidolons have to pay. The druid can wild shape and summon additional creatures while their pet is active. The summoner has to specifically learn summon monster to do that and sacrifice a precious spell known. And can't wild shape.
Bottom line line is that I can fill the table with summons with a mid-level druid, which is automatic flanking for my pet and flanking for many of the summoned creatures. Your typical summoner can't do anything like this since they banned master summoner.
"In all the PFS tables I've been at, the class has been the most responsible for the "unhappy face" worn by fellow PCs when they are sitting next to a summoner with a souped up eidolon, especially at low levels."
Animal companions for me. There's nothing worse than having newer players completely shown up by a cat. Even worse, experienced players' characters shown up by a cat. Both have happened. I think most Ohio players are just kinda numb to it now.
I know I am but one small voice in the gallery, but I applaud this move. Shaking up organized play is necessary to keep it interesting. Tieflings and Aasimars do have mechanical advantages, and I have seen more of them than most core non-human races. I doubt that was the intent when these races were opened up and I fully support management's decision to restrict these races.
Mark Seifter wrote:
It depends on the number of enemies around, but I've definitely seen daylight dispel wars work to the PCs' advantage. Typically it takes a higher percentage of the enemies' actions to down the daylight than it does for the PCs to put it back up. For instance, I've seen prepared PCs cripple the damage rate of a small group of babaus because the babaus were forced to go for a roughly 50/50 dispel chance to bring the light level back down to what they preferred, thus losing 1 or 2 babau actions each round to the PCs' 1 action (and they had more PCs than babaus too).
First off, babaus don't even have deeper darkness, so all you need is regular old darkvision. Tieflings and Aasimars laugh at them. Secondly, babaus might have dispel magic, but most other critters can only dispel with darkness spells, which means they have to touch. Which is a losing proposition.
Kyle Baird wrote:
Potion of darkvision followed up by an elixir of darksight when needed. YMMV
That's ridiculously expensive compared to darkvision plus oil of daylight or darkvision plus dayfinder.
This phenomenon is partially a result of the darkness spells being redonkulously good. Especially compared to their counterparts.
Rachel Hill wrote:
I am extremely careful when discussing with a group what tier to engineer. And that's just tiering. That's not even hard mode. Again,
That's just so rude to the GM. I may have rules disputes from time to time with a GM, but I would never blame them for MY choice.
"You ran four players through the six player hard mode and we TPK'd. You're not even allowed to do that. I want a retcon and I want to re-play it. I'm-a talk to your VO. Rawr!"
Do you really think this is a real possibility? It's one thing to have my position and be disappointed in the lack of rewards for hard mode (and lack appropriate PCs), but its entirely another to *voluntarily* play it, then TPK, and THEN blame GM. Sounds absurd to me.
Chris Mortika wrote:
Who in the hell poo-poohs swarms now?
I don't think that's true. I think risk vs reward should always be present in a game like this. Like how Bonekeep has extra potential rewards. It's fine as is, it would just be better I think with some kind of small bone to throw to people. Of course, I think that WBL concerns are very overblown in a campaign like this (the old tiering up at will abuse was the exception) but management in general puts a higher priority on it. So I can I see why they put in hard mode they way they did.
None of my PCs are decked out to do a hard mode anyway, so it matters not at all to me.
I never advocated a hard mode without extra rewards. In general, getting away from the 4-player balance of season 0-3 solved 80% of the problem. Although NPC construction could still be improved as a general thing, but as Kyle mentioned, people clamored for more monsters. Well, they got them.