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Alurad Sorizan

David Bowles's page

FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 2,923 posts. 3 reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 10 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Silver Crusade **

King of Storval Stairs with four level 7 iconics.

Silver Crusade **

Again, is losing on the 201st NPC after 200 victories "treating it badly"? If not, then a fire-and-forget strategy is valid.

Silver Crusade **

gnoams wrote:
What is this "making scenarios hard again?" I never understood this. Go play a core season zero and tell me it has challenging combats with its 1st level warrior mooks with straight 10s for stats and nothing but a short sword and padded armor. And the tier 4-5 version just had 3 more warrior levels. Old scenarios were easy when they first came out. Core is supposed to be about reducing the money and rules barriers for entry of new players as well as letting old players be nostalgic. It was never claimed to be an attempt to balance or make anything more difficult.

I've just heard some talk about "getting rid of power creep".

Silver Crusade **

Undone wrote:
Kevin Ingle wrote:


Side question: Why 2 rounds? You still have a move action and a standard action while grappled...

Pull potion with one hand (move)
Drink potion (standard)
5' float up (5' step with a fly speed)

You need to dismiss (Can you even dismiss a potion?) which is a standard and with a 10 foot fly speed there's a strong chance you cannot get out and revert in one turn. It may eat as many as 3 turns.

Yeah, that's fine. Just drags things out.

Silver Crusade **

Why would a druid ever use their AC for minesweeping when they get a ton of summon spells as another class feature? When I say fire-and-forget, I mean against an NPC foe. An NPC foe, by the way, that the math says the AC will likely shred trivially. Where does god-mode end, and disposable begin? If the animal does somehow die, just point out that is massacred the last 200 NPCs you sent it after. I think it's hard to cause a druid to fall with those kinds of numbers.

Silver Crusade **

pauljathome wrote:
Undone wrote:


I'm fairly sure if you're relying on a potion which eats two full turns to get out you're going to lose that fight.

Wrong. I've been in at least one scenario where I got out of Black Tentacles via a potion of gaseous form and my character was responsible for us winning the fight.

Being inconvenienced for 2 rounds does NOT automatically equal a death sentence, let alone a TPK. Most of the bad guys can't actually put out huge amounts of damage each round.

Teamwork, preparation, smart play, decent builds and a reasonably balanced team will overcome at least nearly all of the scenarios. There are possibly one or two exceptions.

Now, it is DEFINITELY going to take some time to train both players and GMs to work within the new paradigm. Good thing we're all starting from level 1 again and so will have that time.

Hmm. I just thought of one potential down side. This may increase general player skill sufficiently that BasePFS becomes even more trivial :-).

This is true. Gaseous form potions are quite useful. Even in non-CORE.

Silver Crusade **

Chris Mortika wrote:

David,

You're a cool guy, and I like a lot of the times where you weigh in on a thread. You're smart, and your posts are well-reasoned.

But there are a couple of topics where your experiences are very different from other people's. In your neck of the woods, druids treat their animal companions as disposable class features, and the GMs all are okay with that.

That's not my experience at all. Nor Scott's. Nor deusvult's. Nor the experience of others on this thread. Druids don't act like that, and if they did, the GMs would enforce alignment penalties.

You've admitted that you "hate" animal companions. I'd like to suggest that you talk to your local Venture Captain about this situation. You're obviously bothered by the way certain GMs and certain players are playing the game, and your VC might have some advice.

EDIT: You've expressed your frustration in the general PFS threads as well. I don't think this is unique to CORE mode, and I'd advise us to move this over to a different thread, rather than derail this one further.

It's really just a subset of the claims of "balance" and "making scenarios hard again". With animal companions, neither of these are happening. The druid furor has mostly subsided at my tables. However, I'm sure they'll be the hotness in CORE once again. I'll pass.

Silver Crusade **

Really it's not that much different than a 2 handed power attack guy killing everything. Well, other than the fact it is a CLASS FEATURE making all the other martials pointless.

Silver Crusade **

GM Lamplighter wrote:
The line *should* be drawn by the player, roleplaying a devout lover of nature properly. If they don't, it is up to the GM to remind them of the possible consequences.

I think the heart of the matter is that most GMs probably know that most scenarios aren't a significant threat to an animal companion. This brings about the lax attitude with all parties and people stop paying attention. I mean the first thing the cat usually does is attack an NPC FIVE times with no TWF penalty because of the magic of natural attacks.

Silver Crusade **

GM Lamplighter wrote:
And of course, you have to use them all, every round, no matter what, correct?

From what I've seen, pretty much. I don't think that druids optimize their pets to NOT use them to dominate combats. Mithril barding, some bestiary feats, and they are good to go.

Silver Crusade **

deusvult wrote:
David Bowles wrote:

As I said, I have never even seen this considered. Many GMs I know aren't confrontational enough to do this. Great for you guys, I suppose.

To be honest, I haven't seen a player of a druid treat his AC like a disposable tool. But you're the one who brought it up as being legitimate in PFS and without consequence.

Hence the discussion since.

Does the druid still get punished if the cat kills everything despite being treated like a tool? If so, where is the line?

Silver Crusade **

"The druid's animal companion is not just another set of stats to make you "win" Pathfinder"

I must have been in a coma these last few years, because that sure seems like what they are used for in practice. The pouncing large cat gets FIVE attacks.

Silver Crusade **

GM Lamplighter wrote:
I suppose it depends on when you "use up" your animal companion - being an ex-druid for the rest of the session may be a problem.

You are also assuming something happens to the animal companion. Do they still get punished if the animal solos everything? Certainly possible in season 0-3. I mean is it really putting the thing in danger if the BBEG needs a "20" to hit it?

Silver Crusade **

deusvult wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
deusvult wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Really? No one sees forcing a friend and trusted companion to die for you because you're too lazy to do it yourself as an evil act? There is a mechanic for that...
I've never seen this enforced. That makes it a non-rule. Give the druid some temp neg levels or SOMETHING.
There is that rather severe "something" he quoted right from the CRB. (you don't get another AC to replace it, oh or any more spells either. Ever.)
Until next PFS session, that is.

Where's the RAW on that?

The GM is allowed to say you're now, immediately, an ex-druid, according to the CRB.

Ah, I get it. Atonement makes it all ok again on the chronicle.

*shrug* As GM Lamplighter said.. if you wanna spend that kind of gold, go for it.

As I said, I have never even seen this considered. Many GMs I know aren't confrontational enough to do this. Great for you guys, I suppose.

Silver Crusade **

GM Lamplighter wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
Until next PFS session, that is.
If you want to spend 2500gp per session on a one-shot cruise missile, go for it.

Only at your table. Maybe if I played at your table 100% of the time, I wouldn't hate ACs so much. But clearly, that has not happened.

Silver Crusade **

GM Lamplighter wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
I've never seen this enforced. That makes it a non-rule.

This is a terribly myopic thing to say, don't you think? Do you travel so far that you have the pulse of PFS world-wide?

It would be much more consistently enforced if there was a mathematical detriment to it, instead of a GM-dependent if-come-maybe detriment that will not be enforceable in the next session.

Silver Crusade **

deusvult wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Really? No one sees forcing a friend and trusted companion to die for you because you're too lazy to do it yourself as an evil act? There is a mechanic for that...
I've never seen this enforced. That makes it a non-rule. Give the druid some temp neg levels or SOMETHING.
There is that rather severe "something" he quoted right from the CRB. (you don't get another AC to replace it, oh or any more spells either. Ever.)

Until next PFS session, that is.

Silver Crusade **

deusvult wrote:

We had a saying in the military:

You can do anything once.

Closely related:

You can do anything your career can handle.

Yes, the druid can callously order his trusting AC to a suicide mission. That doesn't mean there are no consequences.

Actually, there aren't. At least not in RAW. I've seen animal companions named "Meat Shield" and no one batted an eye. Except me, but whatever.

Silver Crusade **

GM Lamplighter wrote:
Really? No one sees forcing a friend and trusted companion to die for you because you're too lazy to do it yourself as an evil act? There is a mechanic for that...

I've never seen this enforced. That makes it a non-rule. Give the druid some temp neg levels or SOMETHING.

Silver Crusade **

Walter Sheppard wrote:
Undone wrote:

Druidzilla is the definitive winner from core.

Lion animal with light armor prof and power attack is a barbarian combatant. Built in pounce and it's 100% disposable.

"Please hand in your sprig of holly and mistletoe. You can leave your druid membership card on the counter."

Then write in a mechanic for that. Until then, he's 100% correct that animal companions are fire and forget cruise missiles if necessary.

Silver Crusade

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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
David Bowles wrote:
I taking bets on how it is before CORE campaign GMs start complaining about how CORE didn't fix pounce kitties.

David, we know about your opinion regarding the animal companion issue, but I would argue that with CORE animal companions will thrive, since almost everything they use is in the CRB (additional traits is an awesome cherry on top).

Yeah. That was the point of my post. They are going to dominate games and all the GMs that expected "balance" are going to be crying in their beer.

Silver Crusade **

I always point out rules errors. I honestly have seen very, very few errors in the players' favor, however.

" it can be retconned if necessary"

It's almost always easier to figure out during the game. If there's no threat of time out, then it's well worth even 15-20 min of game time to hash it out to avoid having to involve litigious processes.

Silver Crusade

5 people marked this as a favorite.

I taking bets on how it is before CORE campaign GMs start complaining about how CORE didn't fix pounce kitties.

Silver Crusade **

pauljathome wrote:
N N 959 wrote:
deusvult wrote:
... the position of the GM outranks the position of the player. In PFS it's still true; the GM is still a GM despite some authority (namely, "house rules") being reserved only for VOs and Paizo staff.

And this probably underscores why I disagree with nearly all your posts in this thread. There is no hierarchy between GM and Player any more than there is between a referee and a basketball player. Pathfinder is a game of mutual consent, not structural or organization hierarchy.

Sorry, but you're wrong. At least in PFS.

If you and the GM disagree on how a rule is to be interpreted, or on what constitutes an Evil act, etc etc etc then
1) The GM and you should try and achieve consensus
2) If that fails or is taking too long then the GM decides
3) If you think the GM is wrong, then you later get to appeal.

But its NOT a democracy, its NOT a game of mutual consent. The GMs opinion trumps the players opinion.

Pretty much as is the case in basketball. The referee trumps the player.

I always let the table vote, because the rule is going to work the same for NPCs. So to me, it is a game of mutual consent.

Silver Crusade **

This issue is why I try to get a feel for a gm before the table gets going. Gms with obvious attitude problems get walked away from before the game starts. Gms that hand down bogus rulings during the game are tolerated to get the sheet and not sat with again. There's no reason for a power struggle just vote with your feet.

I will say that when I GM I dont consider myself outranking players, as judgement calls should be minimized and acceptable to the table.

Silver Crusade **

Jiggy wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
I'll be happy to be proven wrong but I've got a bad feeling about this. Splitting geeks into groups can often split an already small group socially.

I have similar reservations. I mean, mechanically, the idea is fantastic. It addresses multiple issues pretty elegantly.

But on the "people" level... I'm less optimistic. As soon as I finished reading the blog, I was already wondering how this development would interact with existing elements of elitism in the playerbase. As I read through the comments, I pondered whether I should voice my concerns or just quietly hope for the best so I wouldn't risk fueling the very thing I fear.

Then I discovered that it only took 40 minutes for someone to proudly proclaim that the Core Campaign is the place for people who are better roleplayers than those who use more books. It even came straight from a VO.

And no one batted an eye.

It's because people are 99% desensitized to the Stormwind Fallacy.

Silver Crusade **

Don't play with GMs who grief the PCs. Period. Don't argue whether they are allowed to or not within society rules. Get up and leave. I don't consider a -2 here or there griefing myself, but if you do, leave the table. It's just biggest statement you can make.

Silver Crusade **

I have specific arrows in my efficient quiver. All others are in storage bags.

Silver Crusade **

As PFS is a limited resource campaign, I can see the power gaming camp. At the same time, many encounters are very, very easy, so I can see the argument against.

Silver Crusade **

It's hard to run most PFS scenarios on "11".

Silver Crusade **

Piercing metamagic rod is quite a useful little piece of gear, but it gets pricey for spells above third level. Haste is almost always better than any nuke or SoD you could cast.

Silver Crusade **

Most wizards actually aren't that good at causing damage, in my experience. It's best to facilitate that choppy and shooty martials, imo.

Silver Crusade **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Any griefing of players on knowledge checks just makes the power combat builds more desirable. Two hander power attack barbarians and clustered shots Zen archers don't care about DR in anyway. Their "knowledge" is pure, raw damage which very few Bestiary monsters can stand against regardless of defenses.

Silver Crusade **

If the level 7 pregens had a couple thousand gp "flex money" for additional consumables, they'd get a lot better. Most pregens just flat out lose to flying, ranged opponents.

Silver Crusade **

There is that point, as well.

Silver Crusade **

It's not the only metric, but getting dangerous NPCs off the table quickly is the best way to stop their shenanigans. And prevent loss of PC resources. Pregens typically fail spectacularly at this task.

Silver Crusade **

I don't think it's wimping out in a finite-resource campaign. That and people playing pregens have nothing to lose; that's one half or maybe a third of the problem with them.

I'm more inclined to be willing to play with a pregen in a season 0-2 7-11, but even those sometimes will throw out a random glabrezu, against which the level 7 pregens are basically useless. At least for dpr.

Silver Crusade **

examples:

Pregens directly contributed to failures on the part of the PCs when I GMed King of Storval Stairs and also Fabric of Reality. Oloch didn't hit anything when fighting the harpy archers.

We nearly wiped on Sealed Gate because pregens couldn't contribute and they massively underperformed in Assault on the Wound, too.

I didn't tell others to leave. Go ahead and play all you like with them.

Silver Crusade **

Solid? Really? What does a bad character look like to you? I've seen too many tables go south because of pregens lack of dpr and inability to deal with something like a swarm.

I usually leave tier 8-9 and 10-11 tables with pregens at them.

Silver Crusade **

Well, I think that is a gross exaggeration. Harsk, Ezren, and the new Warpriest all being culprits.

Silver Crusade **

Not all of the others. But the divine pregens have the advantage in swapping out spells for sure.

Silver Crusade **

I don't think he's talking about you.

Silver Crusade **

There's always Kyra and Seela, I guess.

Silver Crusade **

I've seen the ACG pregens. They're better, but still unsuitable for most tier 8-9 and 10-11 play. The warpriest in particular is still very poor. I like the investigator a lot, but his damage is still very poor as well. But he's a lot more useful than the warpriest.

Silver Crusade **

DM Beckett wrote:
David Bowles wrote:

"but the thing about the Summoner is they already have a mechanic for building their Eidolon as they want."

That's not really a justification for ruling it different for them. I will note, however, that I have enlarge person on my summoner, but I only use it very specific circumstances. Nothing more annoying than fat pet in tight situations.

It's not ruling it different for them. Unless there are their classes that can affect Outsiders with ______ Person spells? Last I heard an Aasimar/Tiefling couldn't even affect themselves with some of their own Class Features do to that. What I was saying is, if it where up to me (in a home game, for example), I might allow it, but on the other hand, as it's essentially an easy way to bypass paying for higher Evolution Point costs for a class whose deal is being able to "build however you want", I might not in this case, too. Unsure.

But not sold on the idea that that's the way it's supposed to work either.

Summoners can affect them because share spell ability explicitly says they can. The problem with this is that the summoner is stuck casting a one round spell for the privilege. No potions here.

Silver Crusade **

roysier wrote:
I see few elves in play in PFS or in home games. There aren't enough advantages to make up for the -2 con hit.

I'll take +2 on enchantment and free spell penetration. And there have been more and more scenarios where low-light isn't useless.

Silver Crusade **

"but the thing about the Summoner is they already have a mechanic for building their Eidolon as they want."

That's not really a justification for ruling it different for them. I will note, however, that I have enlarge person on my summoner, but I only use it very specific circumstances. Nothing more annoying than fat pet in tight situations.

Silver Crusade **

Dorothy is correct. Enlarge person cast from the summoner herself will affect an eidolon. It's not abuse, it's the correct interpretation of the Share Spell ability.

Relevant text:

"A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider)."

There are no qualifiers to this text at all. It is, therefore, universally true.

Silver Crusade **

Yeah. I don't do that. Ever.

Silver Crusade **

No, I'm not the GM. At least, I don't think I am. My game happened months ago. They were much more horrified by the second encounter, anyway.

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