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@Grooven: Hero Lab is not the authority on Paizo Rules.
It's expressly stated that a MoMS can in fact take the 3rd feat in the chain without taking the second feat, so long as he/she has the base "Style" feat.
The issue is (as others have pointed out) in a lot of instances the 3rd feat won't do anything for you without the second.
dragonhunterq quoted the rule. It is as unambiguous as anything Paizo has ever written so I don't think there is an argument for the other side... The usual argument regarding the MoMS is regarding the Elemental Fist feat and it's pre-requisites which is not what you're asking.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
I agree that's the crux of the issue. I believe the Agile property is a more recent addition to the rules than Doubleslice; which, if I recall correctly is in the CRB.
If the intent was for DoubleSlice & Agile to work in concert I think they would have added a Special line: "If you have taken the Doubleslice Feat, you may apply your full DEX to off-hand damage". Or something like that.
However, I'm in part basing my conclusion on the historical precedence of martial characters routinely getting the short end of the "balance" stick. The Devs probably feel that DEX for initiative, AC, Reflex Saves, ranged attack rolls, melee attack rolls (with a 1 feat investment), and full off-hand damage (with 2 feat + magical property investment), would be "unbalanced".
Do I buy it? Not really.
Rushley son of Halum wrote:
Reach is a cube. This is a fact. Anything else breaks the entire operation of reach weapons or at best over complicates them.
I don't think you understand the grid based system. Pathfinder has omitted the rule from 3.5 that specifically permitted reach weapons to threaten the second diagonal; a square that is clearly 15 away according to the Pathfinder rule set.
That being said, the Developers have chimed in and made comments that moving from 15 to 5 on the diaganols should provoke because at some point the creature is moving across the 10' barrier.
Nefreet and Gauss have clearly got a grasp on things and done a very good job of explaining it for the uninitiated. Too bad they can't clear it up for the willfully ignorant.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Thank you for posting that link. I've read your guide to challenging encounters and your blog looks great so far.
And I agree with Ciaran: Ninja does sound great for a Solo adventure.
How many players? It could be fun to actually play it out. Have the slavers make their play when they have the players isolated and alone.
If they've been sailing with the party for a few days or weeks the Slavers will have a good idea at the PC's strengths and weaknesses; use magic on the fighter, brute force against the mage etc. etc.
Most players I know would be okay with this if they have the prospect of recovering their gear (or better gear)...
If the party is low level, simply give some of the slaver captains masterwork versions of the PC's favoured equipment.
Yeah it sucks to be poisoned and enslaved, but it's great to eventually kick the slaver's butt and take his valuable sword.
At the start of each session we go round the table giving the GM our passive Sense Motive & Perception scores. The passive score is our skill modifier +10.
That's the DC the GM uses for all of his various checks... I suspect he just uses the highest passive scores if our party is together, methodically moving through an environment...
It works pretty well too as he can just roll behind the screen without giving anything away by asking "Hey Krodjin, what's your Perception modifier again?", and then spark a chain reaction of every PC: "I'm rolling Perception!"
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
We have the correct answer from the original rule. What's to discuss?
true. I think what's happening is people new to thread read the title, read the first post, and then post a comment without reading the posts further down the thread or referencing the rules.
I must admit - I'm guilty of doing that myself from time to time.
We have the correct, true, and unambiguous rules interpretation... We're done here.
(Fantastic referencing in your earlier posts by the way).
Okay, thanks everyone for clearing that up! So that means I could use Two-Weapon Fighting, Rapid Shot, and Quick Draw to throw three daggers in a round?
Yes absolutely - but you do take the TWF penalties and the Rapid Shot penalties. So if we assume a Fighter level 6 with the feats you listed and Impr. TWF, he could make 5 attacks at BAB +6/+6/+6/+1/+1, but with the penalties it would be +2/+2/+2/-3/-3
None of those numbers factor in ability modifiers, weapon focus, Point Blank Shot, Deadly Aim, or anything else; just -2 for TWF & -2 for Rapid Shot
Can a Medium creature use a Large lance while mounted; if they use it two-handed?
If so why? If not, why not?
It seems that the Lance is a more appropriate comparison than the Bastard Sword as the Bastard sword is a one-handed weapon, albeit with special properties. The Lance & Earthbreaker are both two-handed weapons that can be wielded in one-hand under certain, specific conditions.
Question: If a Two-handed Fighter Archetype takes Thunder & Fang and makes a charge whilst wielding his Earthbreaker in 1 hand, does he or she still receive the 2x STR modifier to damage granted by the 3rd level class ability Overhand Chop?
Overhand Chop(Ex) wrote:
T&F lets you wield an EB as if it were a 1-handed weapon, but it's still a 2-handed weapon. Does the FAQ on wielding 2-handed weapons in 1-hand apply to Overhand Chop?
Paizo Design Team wrote:
I'm so twisted up on how this all interacts right now. Now I'm second guessing everything.
You could do this with any class so long as the GM builds the adventure for such an endeavour... A bunch of Barbarians breaking out of a Prison (as an example) would need an entirely different set of challenges than Rogues, or Sorcerers, or Paladins...
But you could tailor it so that it is a fun time regardless of the class.
But the 1.5 value is referred to as "Strength Bonus" so they question is which instance of strength bonus is getting doubled, not how they stack.
You are overthinking this. The common terms/rules for multiplying tell us that multipliers are not multiplied by one another, so why would we assume that you multiply and already multiplied bonus?
Unless it's specifically called out we revert to the base number, or in this case the Characters STR bonus.
All you need to do is get sneak attack and your core Rogue will out damage your core Monk.
If you can't, I'm afraid it's a user error and not an issue with the class.
Also consider that you are sacrificing a lot for concept here. You could one-hand a Scimitar with Dervish Dance and not have to worry about getting an Agile weapon or STR bonuses.
I prefer a Golarion that includes some Elven warriors that use a Curveblade opposed to a Scimitar.How boring would it be if every DEX character used a scimitar?
For sure it's mainly just theory crafting and spitballing... Heck, you could take a level of Dawnflower Dervish Bard to get Dervish Dance without Weapon Finesse (I think), but that would mean you wait until ECL 4 to get BAB +1. That just hurts too much.
Double the buffs for self only would help offset the list BAB, but man, can you imagine having to play that up from level 1? It may (stress may) be an interesting idea if you can jump in a 6th level or something...
Playing an Archer would violate your second rule. But, if you want to play an Archer that stops at level 12, you only have 2 options;
1) Zen Archer
No other class is worth it because waiting until end game to get Improved Precise Shot won't work in a "dungeon" type environment.
So, between the choices above the Zen Archer gives you more ability to customize. The Ranger has to spend EVERY feat on Archery, the Zen Archer gets just about everything as a class ability and the only archery feat you need us Deadly Aim.
River Rat: the +1 damage with daggers goes a LONG way. Considering that it apples to ALL attacks made with a dagger, including off-hand attacks, it is certainly better than "half a feat".
A character with 10 STR who takes this trait does the same damage as a character with 12 STR (+2 to 1 ability score is worth a feat & 1 skill point/level, according to the Human alternate racial trait) and Double Slice.... So that's 2 feats right there...
I've done the math for a 3/4 BAB character up to level 12 and Daggers w/River Rat provides more DPR than a Kukri - even on a High STR build. Considering that Kukri's are a Martial weapon and most Rogue's would need to burn a feat on it, that puts us at 3 feats...
The ISWG is one of the best pathfinder purchases I've made. Some of the player companion books expand on the info for specific areas. If you know the locale you want to run your campaign in, I'd suggest buying the player companion for that area.
Varisia may be one of the most, if not the most described areas. If you're starting there you will be able to find info from a lot of sources... Maybe too many sources (depending on how much time you have for reading).
Where are you thinking of basing your campaign?
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Ranged attacks and cover:Shooting into melee? That's-4
Ally in the way? Now your at -8.
Determining who has cover relative to you is often overlooked by both players and GM's.
Nothing simplifies combat for an Archer more than letting him full attack round after round without taking cover into account.
The tripping feats...
It's not clever by any means, but it will work. I just haven't figured out if I should go with a STR or DEX build. Probably gonna go with DEX but my plan was to stat them both up until level 12 and compare. Just have to find the time.
We rarely find ourselves in wide open spaces, even when we do its often not feasible to get into a position that completely eliminates the cover or partial cover provided by your own allies.
I think it's a pretty impressive feat. Admittedly my regular GM is a stickler for the rules - I'm expecting that my local PFS GM will be as well.
I do realize this all boils down to opinion & play style so results may vary.
Your suggestion has me considering a switch-hitter that uses a crossbow, but I think the end result would just be a character that was bad in melee & at range.
So your Kitsune Rogue would be able to choose one of the following every level;
1. +1 hit point. Or,
A Kitsune Fighter would only be able to choose between 1 & 2.
Also keep in mind that a Kitsune Rogue who always chooses option 3 only recognizes the benefit (receiving an extra rogue talent) every 6 levels.
Personally, I think Stunning Fist is better then Punishing Kick. What punishing kick has in its favour is that you can always choose to move the opponent back 5' and they don't get to save.
If you have tactically minded allies you can use this to your advantage, buts its overall effectiveness is limited (in my mind at least) because there is no way that I'm aware of to get that movement to provoke.
Alternatively PK has its defensive perks, especially if you fight with a reach weapon.
If the challenge didnt have a pit fiend in it I probably wouldnt even be talking here. But the second someone starts saying "I have a build thats so badashe that no wish in the world can harm me"... I cant help it. I gotta say something.
you take yourself and your pit fiends way to seriously. Take the guide for what it is - an example of how you can build a Zen Archer. If your big issue is with the Pit Fiend I can only assume you didn't read the guide are just hating for the sake of hating.
My advice. Don't teach your significant other. Let him or her do something they are interested in and you do what you're interested in.
When each partner in a partnership has time for themselves it can actually be really good for the relationship.
Throw kids in the mix and I bet neither of you get a lot of time to pursue your own interests.
For me, it includes getting away from the family every 4th Sunday afternoon to play Pathfinder. Or, as my Wife calls it "Nerdfest".
If your partner is truly interested they will eventually pick up the book on their own. If they don't do that they are most likely making the effort to try and please you. It's a nice gesture for sure, but D&D is something you either love or you don't.
My Grandpa used to tell me "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".
By RAW this is open for interpretation as far as I can tell. In a home game I would probably permit this if I couldn't find an Archetype that did pretty much the same thing. It wouldn't be OP as far as I can tell.
I will go on the record here as saying that it would be poor form to try and pull this at a PFS table though. Turns out Grandpa knew what he was talking about.
Sundering wouldn't be the only thing my character would do, but it would be something he could do in order to aid the party - much like in the scenario you just described.
Basically the character I am going to create is a Monk - the more people I hear whine & complain about how bad Monks are the more I want to play one.
I'm considering either a Weapon Adept or Martial Artist. Regardless of which arcetype I choose they will eventually end up with an Adamantine Sai to use when Sundering stuff is called for.
Martial Artist + Adamantine Sai + Improved Sunder would give me all I need to be a self styled "sunder specialist". The character is going to have Power Attack anyhow so with the investment of 1 feat and 1 weapon it could be a reliable trick he can use when necessary. I'm not suggesting he'd be the best at it, but he'd be good enough at it.
Haven't thought much more about it - but now that it seems like it wouldn't be a terrible idea I'll flesh out the character a bit more and see where it leads.