We rarely find ourselves in wide open spaces, even when we do its often not feasible to get into a position that completely eliminates the cover or partial cover provided by your own allies.
I think it's a pretty impressive feat. Admittedly my regular GM is a stickler for the rules - I'm expecting that my local PFS GM will be as well.
I do realize this all boils down to opinion & play style so results may vary.
Your suggestion has me considering a switch-hitter that uses a crossbow, but I think the end result would just be a character that was bad in melee & at range.
So your Kitsune Rogue would be able to choose one of the following every level;
1. +1 hit point. Or,
A Kitsune Fighter would only be able to choose between 1 & 2.
Also keep in mind that a Kitsune Rogue who always chooses option 3 only recognizes the benefit (receiving an extra rogue talent) every 6 levels.
Personally, I think Stunning Fist is better then Punishing Kick. What punishing kick has in its favour is that you can always choose to move the opponent back 5' and they don't get to save.
If you have tactically minded allies you can use this to your advantage, buts its overall effectiveness is limited (in my mind at least) because there is no way that I'm aware of to get that movement to provoke.
Alternatively PK has its defensive perks, especially if you fight with a reach weapon.
If the challenge didnt have a pit fiend in it I probably wouldnt even be talking here. But the second someone starts saying "I have a build thats so badashe that no wish in the world can harm me"... I cant help it. I gotta say something.
you take yourself and your pit fiends way to seriously. Take the guide for what it is - an example of how you can build a Zen Archer. If your big issue is with the Pit Fiend I can only assume you didn't read the guide are just hating for the sake of hating.
My advice. Don't teach your significant other. Let him or her do something they are interested in and you do what you're interested in.
When each partner in a partnership has time for themselves it can actually be really good for the relationship.
Throw kids in the mix and I bet neither of you get a lot of time to pursue your own interests.
For me, it includes getting away from the family every 4th Sunday afternoon to play Pathfinder. Or, as my Wife calls it "Nerdfest".
If your partner is truly interested they will eventually pick up the book on their own. If they don't do that they are most likely making the effort to try and please you. It's a nice gesture for sure, but D&D is something you either love or you don't.
My Grandpa used to tell me "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".
By RAW this is open for interpretation as far as I can tell. In a home game I would probably permit this if I couldn't find an Archetype that did pretty much the same thing. It wouldn't be OP as far as I can tell.
I will go on the record here as saying that it would be poor form to try and pull this at a PFS table though. Turns out Grandpa knew what he was talking about.
Sundering wouldn't be the only thing my character would do, but it would be something he could do in order to aid the party - much like in the scenario you just described.
Basically the character I am going to create is a Monk - the more people I hear whine & complain about how bad Monks are the more I want to play one.
I'm considering either a Weapon Adept or Martial Artist. Regardless of which arcetype I choose they will eventually end up with an Adamantine Sai to use when Sundering stuff is called for.
Martial Artist + Adamantine Sai + Improved Sunder would give me all I need to be a self styled "sunder specialist". The character is going to have Power Attack anyhow so with the investment of 1 feat and 1 weapon it could be a reliable trick he can use when necessary. I'm not suggesting he'd be the best at it, but he'd be good enough at it.
Haven't thought much more about it - but now that it seems like it wouldn't be a terrible idea I'll flesh out the character a bit more and see where it leads.
The Zen Archer Qinggong Monk is probably what you are looking for. It's not like any other Monk you've played. You won't have any problem making it work - just don't fall into the fairly obvious trap and take either Rapid Shot or Manyshot as a bonus feat (unless you plan to only "dip" as Zen Archer and need those feats for something else).
1. It's one of the few Archer builds that gets so many feats or class abilities that are as good or better then a feat that you can afford to be a race other then Human and not miss the bonus feat. You can even afford to take feats like Toughness, Snake/Crane Style, Extra Ki, Improved Initiative - or whatever else you need to build YOUR character. One of the few Archery feats you want to squeeze in is Deadly Aim - you basically get everything else.
2. You are as close to being SAD as any Monk archetype can get. Your stats are going to be WIS>WHATEVER. I prefer to only have 1 dump stat (CHA) and then balance the rest of the build but feel free to build how you want. Dwarves have adjustments in all the right places (+Darkvision and the 20' speed becomes a moot point).
3. Ki Pool. With your excellent WIS and Qinggong abilities you can have a "magicy" or "mystical" feel if that is what you want. Heck you can even get Scorching Ray.
4. Traits: Honoured Fist of the Society is nice for a Ki Pool bump. I really like Wisdom in the Flesh (Irori), it lets you use your WIS mod for any STR/DEX/CON skill and that skill becomes a class skill. Disable Device is a great choice if you want some out of combat utility.
Saying that proficiency with an exotic weapon is not equal to Exotic Weapon Proficiency with said weapon seems absurd.
If it was the intent of the developers to be that restrictive I'd like to think they would express that better.
It's not unreasonable to assume the two are the same, so ruling otherwise seems unreasonable.
Thank you for the reply - this is exactly the kind of discussion I'm looking for - if I'm inferring something that isn't there I want to know about it.
I'm not reading it as 24 dice. I'm reading it as follows;
1. 6d6 (base sneak attack damage).
2. "Roll your sneak attack dice twice" - Sap Master... Okay so now we are at 6d6 + 6d6 = 12d6
3. +24 - Sap Adept "you gain a bonus on your damage roll equal to twice the number of sneak attack damage dice you rolled". Okay, I rolled 12 dice in step 2. Double 12 you get 24...
4. +12 - Knockout Artist "you gain a +1 bonus on the damage roll per each sneak attack damage die you roll". Okay so that's +12.
So that's how I'm arriving at my totals. I know the math is correct if we assume that I have read and interpretted the rules as written correctly.
I'm not certain I have read and interpretted the rules correctly. I have a gut feeling I've glossed over the spirit of the rule (which is more important to me then RAW).
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
If you were new to Pathfinder/D&D 3.5, which way would YOU choose for the game to work? I'm confident that tha devs chose 'our' way of reading it as part of their writing process.
That's hilarious! Scroll back a few pages and you will find quotes (with links to the original posts) from just about every person on the development team who frequents these boards unilaterally diasgreeing with your camps point of view.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Unless, of course, you 'decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks.'
That right there ^ is where you slide off the rails. You are not being asked to decide between iterative attacks or a move action - you are being asked to decide between a Standard Action or a Full-Attack.
-A Full-Attack is a full round action that prohibits movement (other then a 5' step).
-A Standard Action is not a full round action and allows you enough time left over to take a Move action.
Generally speaking a character does not have to decide between an Attack (standard action) or a Full-Attack (full round action) until after he or she has made their first attack.
There are of course Feats and Abilities that preclude being able to make this choice.
For the sake of this question let's assume a Ninja level 12 with all of the above feats + TWF. I won't be including any modifiers from Strength or Dexterity to either attack or damage...
The Ninja also has two "Master Tricks"; Invisible Blade (greater invisibility) and Unarmed Combat Mastery (Unarmed strikes deal damage as Monk -4 levels, or 1d10 damage).
On a full-attack the Ninja would get 3 attacks made at +9/+9/+4 (the -2 from TWF cancels out the +2 from being invisible). I'm trying to wrap my head around the damage. Due to greater invisibility each attack should gain Sneak Attack as the opponent is denied it's dex bonus against all of them. So is the damage;
1d10 +6(Knockout Artist) +12 (Sap Adept) +12d6 (Sap Master)
The bonus damage from Knockout Artist & Sap Adept are untyped so I assume they stack??? I also don't see anything specifying this damage as Precision based - so does it get multiplied on a Critical Hit? I'm reasonably certain that the additional damage dice gained from Sap Master are not multiplied, but less so with the other two feats...
Knockout Artist wrote:
Sap Adept wrote:
Sap Master wrote:
I'm sorry of this question has been previously asked/answered... I'm at work and our computers are sooo slow it freezes when I try to use the search function...
Presuming my assumption on damage may be wrong I would appreciate being shown where in the rules I go off the rails with my comprehension!
Thanks for posting that stuff from JJ.
Now that we can put the nonsensensical debate regarding "Deciding between an Attack and a Full-Attack" behind us we can now debate Manyshot.
Oh, wait. No debate is needed as the rules are crystal clear on what kind of action is required with Manyshot...
Gauss - you mentioned above that the rules for deciding between an Attack and a Full-Attack had to be somewhere - I think they were placed where they are for a reason...
For the first 5 levels of the game (assuming full BAB progression) there is very little differenc between a Standard Action & a Full-Attack (barring specific feats and abilities that are governed with specific rules pertaining to their use). When you only get 1 attack action with either a Standard or Full round action the general rules don't come into effect much.
Once you hit BAB 6/1 and have iterative attacks without relying on special abilities or feats it makes sense that the clarification pertaining to Attack actions and Full Attack actions be presented under the Full Attack heading - afterall, the Standard action has remained the same throughout.
Not sure if that makes sense as I am neither articulate or eloquent...
I can't believe it is this hard for some people to understand.
When you decide between an Attack and a Full Attack, you actually have to decide between making an Attack and a Full Attack.
If you decide to Attack (note the capital "A") you can make a move action after your first attack.
or you can choose to Full Attack by continuing with your remaining or iterative attacks and restrict yourself to a 5' step.
That's all the rule is saying.
Nothing more. Nothing less.
There are not two-types of Full-Attack - the "Full Attack" where you get to make a move action after making your first attack is actually just an Attack.
Hrothgar Rannúlfr wrote:
Any combatant has the option to opt out of a full attack (and move, instead) after the results of the first attack are determined.
This is very true. What people are failing to understand is that if you "opt out" after the first attack and move instead you are taking a standard action followed by a move action.
Standard Action + Move Action does not equal "Full Attack"
Therefore you have not met the requirements of Manyshot and are not entitled to receive the benefit.
Trying to game the system by using Manyshot (as an enhanced standard action) and then employing a move action is neither RAW or RAI.
Or just to be cheeky be a Zen Archer and put the Elf to shame with your bow.
If you follow Treantmonk's guide you can build a pretty good 'vanilla monk'.
Mix in some of the newer material and you can improve on it vastly. If you have access to Ultimate Magic the Qinggong arcetype lets you build an "a la carte" monk with various ki powers to create a unique flavour for your monk.
Not a fan of Slow Fall? No problem, swap it out for Barkskin and boost your AC instead.
Just brainstorming here a bit - but if you added 1 level of Cleric you could qualify for Crusader's Flurry and gain FoB with Scimitar. The high threat range is nice for multiplying all those static damage bonuses... Maybe take Hungry Ghost Monk and fuel your ki-pool with keen scimitars (15 - 20 threat range).
If your GM rules that you can 2 hand your 1 handed weapon for 3:1 on Power Attack and still Flurry with it mores the bonus!
If I'm a Human Martial class or a Fighter (any race) I find that Power Attack and Furious Focus is the perfect combo. Nothing beats power attacking with every swing at no penalty for 5 full levels.
Furious Focus is like having Weapon Focus with every weapon at levels 1 - 3. For levels 4 & 5 it's like getting early entry to Greater Weapon Focus. It loses a bit of lustre on a full-attack once you get your 1st iterative, but it's value is still relevant (and keeps scaling) throughout the game or whenever you are restricted to a single attack.
I'm currently playing a Switch hitter in one campaign and it's a lot of fun. I just created an Archery Ranger for a future campaign.
Here's my $0.02
Switch Hitter: Take Power Attack & Furious Focus at level 1. Don't take any Archery feats except when taking Combat style feats (except Deadly Aim - you need it). You want STR 18, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 7. Put all points to STR when you level. This goes without saying but I'll say it anyway "All favoured class bonuses will be hit points". Because you want to be able to hit with your bow I'd put DEX>CON - but don't neglect your HP! You may also want to look at "Opening Volley" if you find yourself with an open feat slot.
Archer: You want Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot at level 1. STR 12, DEX 19, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 7. Put all points into DEX as you level. Be sure you don't take an Arcetype that trades out Hunter's Bond - because you want a Mount so you can zip around the battlefield making full attacks. You will need 'Weapon Focus: Longbow' in order to get Point Blank Master which is what you want if you want to eventually be an Archer who shoots arrows while in melee. If playing in Golarion the Sable Company Marine is an interesting arcetype that grants you a Hippogriff animal companion - take Boon Companion if you go this route.
Both: Be Human for bonus feat. If you're allowed traits be sure to take Magical Knack (unless you're playing an arcetype that loses Spells). Get a headband to boost WIS for Spells - you have a few levels to plan for this before it's even an issue. Regarding ability scores - feel free to dump int to 8 if you'd like to boost another stat slightly. If you play a Human you will still net 6 skill points per level... I'm hesitant to dump INT because I enjoy being reasonably skillful out of combat.
@ Talonhawke: Read the very first sentence of the first quote. "with THAT weapon" and as per the second quote "IT". This is all clearly talking about one weapon and one weapon only, hardly a "small-degree" of support. It might not be RAI but is most certainly RAW. I'm not saying it's how TWF should work, but that's how it's written to work. Personally I would allow you to make a full attack with thrown weapons using all the TWF chain, but the RAW does not support this.
Yes RAW does;
You may find that the bonus feat for being human is not as great as it seems for a Monk with +0 BAB. A lot of good feats have a +1 BAB requirement. However, you can always grab Toughness or Improved Initiative as they are always good choices.
The Heart of Fields human alternate class feature will let you do a poor man's rage cycle 1/day which would tide you over until you get to Martial Artist 5 and gain fatigue immunity... But if you;re only dipping for 2 levels Barbarian anyhow you shouldn't be selecting a 1/Rage power anyhow - like StreamoftheSky suggested Knockback is probably your best option. If you were going to eventualy get a 2nd rage power knockdown would be nice if you already had fatigue immunity as you could just cycle your rage.
I have no idea if this build is PFS legal - but you can probably get some ideas for feats & talents from this;
I'm sort of in the same boat as you. I'm about to join my first PFS game and I thought about making a Rogue - but man o man, I'm having a hard time... I don't know whether to go 2-weapon fighting or use a reach weapon w/spring attack chain in order to get in/get out. I realize the second option will never have the DPR as the TWF rogue, but I think it has a better chance of surviving... Plus the TWF is so feat intensive you basically have to be Human and forgo Toughness (is Toughness vital for PFS games?).
I couldn't find where it spells this out in the rule book so I'll do my best to explain.
A medium character with 5' reach threatens all adjacent squares - including diagnals.
Does a medium character with a 10' reach weapon threaten the diagnals in the second row of squares?
I always played that they did - my new group says no because every second diagnal counts as two squares.
I know that's true for movement, but does it count for reach?
I'll try to illustrate with x's & o's. o's being the threatened squares and x being the character. Do they threaten this many;
or this many;