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Hairdar the Accursed / Hairdar Yunan

Darkorin's page

Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 6 Season Star Voter. FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 164 posts (165 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 5 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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Sovereign Court

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, I've just spent tons of time reading and analyzing 5th Edition, and the only thing I can say right now... Is that it seems like a great game.

I've honestly dropped pathfinder now for a year. There was some cool idea, some great books, but the overall quality just seems to drop. Pathfinder is getting just too complicated, too much books, too much complexity and the real probleme here is the fact that they want to keep their d&d 3.5 compatibility.

3.5 was cool, but it had a lot of default. Pathfinder tried to fix a few, some of it worked really nicely, some of them did not. I really loved the idea of archetypes, but even Paizo is beginning to throw that away by making new classes (most of the classes from the advanced classes guide had a previous equivalent as an archetype!). It had a nice run, but everyone seems to rediscover the limits of the system, yes the improvements made us forget about a good part of it, but it's still there after scratching enough of this new cover.

Now... D&D5, it's eleguant and simple, the options presented (and the one which will be introduced later) really seem like different kind of gameplay. You can play if with different levels of complexity, and that sure seems interesting.

But let's be honest... they saw the virtues of archetypes from pathfinder and they took it. They saw the virtues of traits and remade them as background. And they did a great job making them!
I do not really agree with people saying that the fact that they restricted the spell slots is a bad thing, they are trying to fix a big problem with high level games, and I do like their solution.
There is still a lot of diversity there, the feats are all really cool and yes I know you won't get that many of them, but look at most of pathfinder's, 3.5 and 4th feats... most of them are just tax feat that you have to take for a specific build, and sometimes you try something special and different with them, but it won't always work.

I do find 5th ed. classes more interesting than 3.5 and pathfinder's if I just compare with the Core books. It feels like they will easily be able to build new archetypes for the current classes. And It really feels like the archetypes have been built into the classes instead of thought afterward like in Pathfinder. In 5th ed, it seems like the design is made around that idea. The classes are very simple, and you will get more options from archetypes (pretty much like in pathfinder), which is a simple and elegant way to do things.

I think too many peoples gives importance to feat, when in the end, they are not that important. For some build, your feats are just a tax, for others you almost don't need them at all and you just take them for fun. The 5e system is simple and elegant enough to give you a lot of possibilities, without having to take tons of feat.

Anyway, in some kind of strange ways, it feels to me that d&d 5e is some kind of Pathfinder 2. They have backgrounds, archetype, simplier rules and they put their focus on roleplaying. That is what all RPG should do right now and I personally just can't wait to play it.

Sovereign Court

Please cancel all of my subscriptions. I haven't updated my credit card info because I feel like the product quality of the pathfinder line dropped too much in the last year and a half. I do think that it is sad and I do hope that you'll soon decide to remake/fix the rules instead of just giving us more broken stuff like the new classes and everything.

But I do have to say that I looked into the Inner sea god book and it was quite nice (not enough for convincing me to resubscribe to everything thought). Unfortunately the rest of your campaign setting line just seemed to have fallen behind (I really wish to see more product like Distant Worlds, which was just a great).

Since you remodeled the Player's companion, all of its line of product dropped too much (some of the first one were well made like Knights of the Inner Sea), it just feels like a guide on how to use your other products, while not giving enough information on how to create and give a decent meaning to a character in your universe.

Oh... and one last comment, PLEASE STOP releasing bonus material like Mythic Realms, Mythic Origins, Quests and Campaign and Advanced Classes Origins. Those products just make me feel like you're trying to milk money out of me, by releasing products so linked to your new Core products. I mean come on, if you're releasing those a month after the release of the new book, it just feels cheap, at least put those within your core book (yeah I know, you're gonna say that those are product specific about golarion and thus it should not be in your core line, but it just feels like a cheap excuse for those products).

I do hope that you get back on your feet, but for the time being, I'm just gonna start enjoying other roleplaying games. (Yeah my comments might seem a bit harsh, but I do feel like I need to give you an explanation about it, and all of the people I know who used to play and love Pathfinder, which is about 20 people, all feel the same...)

PS: I do find the Pathfinder Unchained a horrible idea... if you want to "unchain" your developper, drop the 3.5 compatibility entirely and make a new edition, it just feels once again a poor excuse to "fix" some things. If it really is a fix because of a design problem (which means that you admit there is a fault on your part), it should be
a) a new edition
b) an errata available for free and to everyone who bought the faulty product

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Justin Riddler wrote:

I have canceled the item from your sidecart. You can verify this change on your My Subscriptions page.

~Justin Riddler
Customer Service

Thanks a lot!

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Hi, I've had some unexpected expense and I have to reduce the cost of my next pending shipment.

If you could cancel the order 2204609, it would be perfect.


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brad2411 wrote:
Looks great. I did think the Whispering Tyrant would be higher CR but I shall be happy to have his stats. YAY

Yeah I do agree with that... I mean... The Whispering Tyrant was almost a threat to Aroden, right? I would have expected him to be at least level 20 and MR8... kind of disappointed...

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd have to say that I'm a little disappointed by the fact that some of us (subscribers) still have to wait for our pdfs, while everyone else can just buy the pdf and enjoy the love of mythicness and everything.

It's kind of sad that some of the most loyal client gets penalized like this...

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Hmmm, that last book really seems interesting... When did the starstone fell on golarion again?

Maybe there are no gods, but only very powerful robots, and you get turned into an android when succeeding the trial @_@

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Edit: Seriously, when has Anno made anything clear? Well except for ** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler about Anno being clear about Evangelion:

Kaworu is always talking about "this time", or that it seems like shinji is always the same and "we'll see each other again", and stuff like that... but that is only one of the many proof that the rebuilds take place after the end of evangelion...

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
If you're to watch one anime series in your life, make sure it's the one with the best mecha on mecha action ever.
You link them to the series and not the Rebuild movies? *sighs*

Well duh, The Rebuild is not a remake but the sequel. I thought Anno made it clear by making someone with white hair say it something like what... 5 times now?

So yeah, it would be pretty dumb to watch the Rebuild before the original serie, you won't cry and shout at your screen if you just watch Rebuild.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Big Lemon wrote:
Do you think giving Monks free style feats in one chain (Boar Style, Boar Ferocity, etcm) would help balance out the class?

I find the monk just fine the way it is, and I think that giving free style feats would be too much.

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A highly regarded expert wrote:
A cleric casting see invisibility on various allies can slow that down, or a suspicious caster using glitterdust or just bags of flour.

See invisibility has a range of personal... The best way is a caster with see invisibility and glitterdust.

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You do not use the stat of your Eidolon, you use your own.

Why? Because the physical bonus of your Eidolon is not a permanent stat bonus, it's a temporary one, it lasts as long as your are fused with your eidolon. Like Bull strength gives you a temporary bonus to Str, if Str is your mythic ability, it does not give you bonus mythic points.

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Artanthos wrote:


Female Tiefling Bladebound Kensai 10 / Mythic 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
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Level 1 burning hands, expeditious retreat, grease, infernal healing, obscuring mist, reduce person, shield, shocking grasp, vanish
Mythic invisibility, mage armor

You can't cast Mythic Mage armor since you don't know mage armor (and it is not on your spell list...).

If you cast a spell, and that you possess a mythic version of it, you can spend mythic points in order to cast the mythic version instead of the normal version.

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And let's not forget that your dex fighter did not spend 1 feat + 1 mythic feat + 1 path ability. You forgot Exotic Weapon Profiency(Elven Blade), which means it's 2 feats + 1 mythic feat + 1 path ability in order to have a +4 bonus to AC and less damage than a fighter spending no feats/mythic feats/path ability.

I think that the 2 feat + 1 mythic feat + 1 path ability is a good enough tax in order to have a little more AC and less damage than a STR fighter who spent no feat/mythic feat/path ability.

And please, do not underestimate high STR stat. Having a huge light load is something really cool and useful that people seem to underestimate most of the time... And don't forget that those mythril armors/shield you seem to be fond of to say that Dex-based thing are too powerful have an extra cost...

And I'd like to thank you to show use that a dex-based fighter with an elven-blade isn't that much better than a STR-based fighter...

I still think that we could make Mythic Weapon Finesse apply to all weapons, if you take out the 1.5x Dex modifier to damage roll when using 2 handed-weapons (which was never really clear in the first place...).

And if you want to know why? Well... because otherwise you take out a lot of options, and people will tend to go take the elven-blade...

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Pendin Fust wrote:
I can see the Champion and Archmage looking sexy in the book and as you imagine high tier/high level combos, but what I am seeing so far is the Marshall and Guardian abilities as being the most useful and even "mythic" at low level and low tier.

That may be true, but when you get to higher levels/tier and when you have better things to do, the marshall at least become less and less attractive.

The ability to give a move action to your allies? Well... they can already make a full attack + a move action...

And what combo are you talking about??? You can't use Rally and Advance in the same round, they both take a swift action.

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AlgaeNymph wrote:

2. In addition, when using this ability you can roll twice and take the better result on any check made to overcome spell resistance, adding your archmage tier to the result.

#2's wording is unclear. Do I always get to take the best of two rolls against spell resistance or is this also only against nonmythic target?

My understanding is that it works on mythic targets, because it is IN ADDITION. The condition only applies on the first sentence, you don't carry it to the second one, if that was the case you would need to repeat it.

So Yes, it is useful. Why? Because a lot of mythic creatures have some kind of spell resistance, so it greatly increases the probability the creature targeted is affected by your spell.

Sovereign Court

The monkey goblin has a speed of 30 and fast movement in its stat block, but it has a speed of 20 and slow movement in the Monkey Goblin Character part.

Zelishkar has Resist cold 30 AND Vulnerable to cold... which is just strange! And its natural weapons are considered lawful, and worshippers of Zelishkar car have the Law Domain, which is strange once again for a NE creature... I'm starting to think that this creature has some kind of chaotic nature xD

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Sauce987654321 wrote:
I've always liked those feat of "ability score" path abilities. The +20 I think is good because it was already hard enough passing any ability score check as it is. I would try to think of a better way to make mythic feats like athetic better instead of making other mythic abilities worse. Maybe have althletic (mythic) treat all your rolls for 1 minute as 20s for a mythic point?

Well, ability checks almost disappeared in pathfinder, and those path abilities give bonuses to skill checks too, and that's the problem :/

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There are already a few threads about this.

I invite you to post in this thread.

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Hey Everyone,

So, I'm wondering if anyone here knows someone who took one of the mythic Alertness/Athletic/... feat.

I mean, those feats really do not sound good at all, You need to have a feat in the first place to take them, and for the cost of one mythic power, you can treat your roll as a natural 20.

Now let's compare that to the Feat of Xs Universal Path Abilities. Those path abilities for the cost of one use of mythic power gives you a bonus of +20 to any skill check using X (replace X by Charisma/Dex/Int/etc.).

Now... let's compare them.

If you took one feat and one mythic feat, you can have 20+y+4/6 in two skills(where y is your number of rank + your ability modifier and other bonuses).

If you take a single path ability, you get 1d20+y+20 for all skills of a single ability score

The path ability is just better.

I mean, I don't even understand Alertness/Acrobat/Athletic/etc. feats, but even in their mythic version, they are just... bad, and I've played D&D and Pathfinder with peoples all around the world, the only character using those feats are new player's or pre-built NPCs.

I see only one exception to this with Mythic Magical Aptitude. Since you treat your roll as a natural 20, you can use it with the Critical Tinkerer (a Trickster path ability), in order to have some bonuses when you use Use Magic Devine (Still wondering how you use Use Magic Device while activating a potion by the way...).

Now... I understand if you want to keep the Mythic feats, but if you want to keep them, we should try to make them at least interesting, and in order to do so, I don't really see any other way than to change the Feat of Xs Universal Path Abilities.

Maybe those path abilities should only give you a +10 (which is still a lot, I mean... the +20 bonus was too much if you want my opinion). Or they could have a prerequisite.

I would find normal that you can only take the path ability of your mythic ability bonus. It does sound kind of strange for a warrior with 6 in wisdom to have the Feat of Wisdom path abilities.

Oh yes, and if the name of those path abilities could change, it would be great, the word "Feat" does make it kind of confusing... Maybe the term Prowess could be nice?

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Hey Everyone, I know it's probably a bit early but, these last few days, I've seen Jason Bulmahn answering a lot of threads.

Most, if not all, of these answers sounds like: "Thanks for your opinion, we're working on a new version."

Now, my gaming groups did not have a lot of time to use these Mythic rules, and we are only now getting into a "heavy playtest" phase. But with all of these things that are changing, I'm currently wondering if:

1) Will we have a new playtest document at some point?? (before the end of the playtest in January)

2) Is it really fair to continue playtesting when we know that so many things that needs to be changed? Right now, all of us could judge an ability too powerful because of another one that is going change. Should we biais our judgement by still introducing these powers and abilities in our game??

Now for all of you that missed some post, here's a list of the things that has been said in the messageboard (would be nice if Jason could give us a part of his work in progress list):

General Abilities:

Archmage path Abilities:

Champion Path abilities:

Hierophant Path Abilities:

Trickster Path abilities:
The mythic path is going to have more/better tricks

Multiple Path Abilities:

  • Itemcraft (Ex): possible modification coming to prevent using the ability to replace a charge of a ring of wishes, etc.


And I did not count the answers on some threads about multiple abilities (since I can't really know which abilities Jason thought needed to be rewritten). I know it is a good thing that we've done so much already, but at the same time, I'm beginning to wonder if the playtest and the playtester will be soon "lost" about what they should test, or even IF they should test anymore...

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Epic Meepo wrote:

The really weird thing about 'sustained by faith' is this...

The PRD wrote:
A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, but unlike a wizard, does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular time of day to pray and receive spells.
So, per the PRD, 'sustained by faith' only lets you refresh your arcane spells. Divine spells don't require rest and can only be refreshed at a specific time of day. Counting as if you were rested does nothing to refresh your divine spells.

BUT, if we look further in the PRD

The PRD also says wrote:

Recent Casting Limit:

As with arcane spells, at the time of preparation any spells cast within the previous 8 hours count against the number of spells that can be prepared.

So I would say that Sustained by faith mention 'refresh' in the sense that you do not count spell that should be counted in your Recent Casting Limit.

Because... 8 hours without casting any spell IS some kind of rest for adventurers :p

Edit: So in the end, I would say that it gives you back the spell slots you already used today, and you do not count any spells in your Recent Casting Limit.

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Tels wrote:

Remember, with Endless Power, you can't take it till Tier 6. At 1 Tier per 2 levels, that means you won't be Tier 6 until 12th level. He can't even get Endless 3rd level spells until Tier 8, which would put him at 16th level. By that point, a Wizard will already be able to take out, or at least seriously injure, a full on army. The things a Wizard could do to an army with 8th level spells is astronomical. I mean, fur the lulz, an Augment/Superior Summon Monster XIII could get you 1d3+1 Celstial/Fiendish Tryanosaurus' or 1d4+2 Celestial/Fiendish Triceratops (I like Dinosaurs).

Hell, things like Wind Wall, Fly, and a Wand of Fireball would allow him to take on legions of basic troops. He doesn't need to be Mythic to do that.

By the time things like Endless Power are made available, things like armies are naught but a nuisance to a Wizard.

As for curing a plague? What's your point? That's what the stories of heroes and legends are made of. A story of a devout man that single-handedly cured an entire city by channeling the power of his god, personally attending to the wounds of every person in town? That sounds suitably Mythic to me. Hell, it's downright inspirational!

Well, my problem is... Yes a high level spell CAN give you the power to take out legions of basic troops, but you're limited on how much you can handle. With Endless Power you are not.

As for curing a plague... Yes the stories of heroes and legends are made of it, but do you know a lot of stories that goes: "That guy came into town, he cured everyone and left, the end"... No, because what makes a story Mythic is what you have to do in order to end the plague. And use a power that magically cures everyone is really just anti-climatic. If your characters can't afford to cure everyone by spamming remove curse/disease, they'll have to search for a cure, search where the epidemy comes from and you can build a journey or an adventure around it. If you can solve it with endless power... Well that is just... disappointing.

But it seems to me that we just disagree on how we see what being mythic means. You seems to say that you are mythic because of your raw power. I think mythic is about how you use your power to shape your actions.

Sovereign Court

Everyone, let's not forget that not all spellcaster have Mage armor. For some magus, Enduring Armor can be quite usefull!

And please, stop insulting each others. We are here to help in the development of new rules, not to shout at everyone.

Every opinion is interesting, and can give you a new point of view, we are not the one to judge which opinions/ideas are better.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
dmwcarol wrote:
It looked like a nightmare to GM - trying to keep track of who was acting once, who was acting twice, where the second action would move to if they delayed on the first etc. It also wasn’t always clear whether some things happened once a round or once a turn and whether action twice in one round meant you had two turns or just two action – I expect there will need to be amendments to the text throughout the published works to clarify this should Mythic be released. For example bleed damage or saving throws v poison – do you bleed faster if you’re taking two actions a round? Does poison hit you faster? If you had said you were going to act twice but fall unconscious on the first do you have to stabilise or lose a point of bleed on your second action?

First of all, Amazing Initiative is going to change, you can found the current options here


Amazing Initiative wrote:
At 2nd tier, you gain a +20 mythic bonus on initiative checks. In addition, you can expend one use of mythic power each round to take an additional turn, treating your initiative for this second turn as your initiative roll without the +20 mythic bonus. Using this ability is a free action that must be decided at the end of your first action during the round. This additional turn allows you to take the full range of actions available to you, but both turns still only count as one round for the purposes of durations and other effects based on rounds.

If you read the bolded part, it states clearly that it counts as a single round, so you don't bleed faster, you don't make more saving throws, you don't have to maintain your performance, etc. for your second "Turn".

One of my question to you is: Why were you keeping track of which ability burned your mythic points??? I really see no use to that. And To book-keep your number of mythic points is not something that unusual. I mean, you do keep track of the number of spells you used, of the number of round of bardic performance you used, etc.

Yeah, the bard already has a lot to check, but it's not really that much more. And what you describe about your experience... it seems like your role in combat was one of a regular bard... Did you exploit the new powers you had? What Mythic Path did you chose?

If you were built for skill-checks and not for combat, I do understand, and I find it normal that you did not have that much fun, but I don't think you should blame it on the mythic rules.

The sample adventure is great to test the combat, but for skill-check based characters, it's not that good.

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Peter Stewart wrote:
I tend to agree that the power of this ability is being overblown - and a great deal seems vested in the idea of characters as pieces in a wargame instead of as living breathing entities in a campaign. Concerns about constant minute/level buffs on the entire party I don't see coming up in the long term.

One of the thing I find really sad about the ability is that it makes a Wizard a better Sorcerer than the sorcerer... (for low level spells, yes but still).

I really love most of the epic spells, because they can do things that affect the world, with a cost.

See a spell like greater mythic sleep. It's s%#*ty as a combat spell, but you can do so much in a campaign with it. It's interesting, you can build things around it, and in the end... I can imagine it fit really well in a Mythic campaign.

Now let's look at endless power... a Single character can have unlimited Remove curse/Disease. It's just not interesting. Hey, there is a epidemic here. Why even TRY to find the source of the corruption or anything? Just wait for a bit, my dear friend here is gonna cure you all!

Even if you're mythic, you shouldn't be able to remove curse/Disease from a whole population in a single day, it's too much. That kind of power should be for Gods only, and with a cost that you should not be willing to pay every day, or even every month.

Same thing with endless fireball (btw, it could be endless intensified fireball with a trait), that gives the arcane spellcaster the ability to whip out armies in mere seconds, without any problem.

You could say that it seems mythic, but really, I think it's a bit too much.

But I have to say that i would really enjoy the thousands of unseen servant that could make the life of my sorcerer so much easier...

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Peter Stewart wrote:

With regard to granting actions as noted in my suggestion above, it does not allow you to take multiple version - e.g. you cannot buy a swift and a standard. That aside - and putting aside the resource ignoring based insanity associated with tossing 4 spells a round (2 quickened) - I think people underestimate the value of a move or standard action to a martial character. It is often the difference between a full attack and a standard attack. That said, I do recognize that the standard action is generally more valuable - which is why it costs more.

The pure fighter in my group would kill for an extra move or standard action, because his number one problem is his difficulty setting up full attacks in a way that is worthwhile to him.

I would note that pretty much all of the suggested changes I've seen still involve granting extra standard actions. I'm simply attempting to help even that out.

Finally, I also see the problem with swift actions, and think it is something that the mythic rules are going to have to deal with one way or another - either by granting extra swift actions or by turning a lot of the swift action stuff here into free actions (which would be my preferred change).

Everyone should keep in mind that at Mythic tiers, fighter can make a fullattack + a move as a full round action, and they probably can make a move action + a single attack as a swift (with a bonus on the attack roll).

I think most people think of what these actions represents right now, but tend to forget all of the new abilities that mythic tiers will bring to your character.

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Cosmo wrote:

The "Ship As Soon As Possible" button will become available when the book is no longer a preorder, on Monday.


Thanks a lot for the info cosmo, I'll make sure to do so on Monday!

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Andrew Betts wrote:
If it's in your sidecart just go to your account and click the "Ship as soon as Possible" button.

I know there is supposed to be one, but I can't find it anywere on my account page/subscription page/etc...

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Hi, I'd like my copy of Rise of the Runelords (collector Edition) to be sent ASAP, and not wait for my december subscription.

Could you make the switch??

Thanks a lot!

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4 people marked this as a favorite.

The real question is to try to understand why do they think it is dangerous, and then explain why it is not.

It's not a problem for christians in other countries, why is it in the USA?

Because someone told them it was? Well just explain them that the ones who explained that game to them, did not know/read it and did not even try to understand it.

Then ask them about movies and actors. Is an actor going to hell because he was an evil character in X movie? No, well it's the same with D&D(if you play evil characters).

Is playing a Paladin who lives his live for his god, to help innocent and protect them from evil creatures, something that would compromise your faith? No.

Honestly... I just can't understand all of this, but I'm not from the USA, so...

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I don't really understand the whole caster Vs melee issue.

If it's an extra swift action: Caster can cast a quickened spell (takes ressources),

Champions can expend one use of mythic power to move+attack with bonuses

Guardians can make a companion/cohort/etc. move+attack for one use of mythic power

Marshals can give a move action to everyone, make someone attack, or give to everyone a d20reroll.

Trickster can make an attack that gets bonuses(ignores DR, target considered flat-footed,...)

So yeah, if you look into it, EVERYONE could do something nice with an extra swift action (if Amazing Initiative gave you that).

Now... let's look at a bonus Standard action:

Casters can cast a spell (a spell is a ressource spent, much like Mythic power)

Champions can make a Perfect Strike or a Through Shot. (perfect strike needs a high Tier, I agree)

Guardians can use Drive Back.

In the end, yes the caster might have a little edge over some characters, but we must keep in mind that non-spellcaster have and will have options with their mythic path abilities. We currently have a small amount of path abilities, but I'm quite sure that in the end, everyone will be able to do something nice with a bonus standard action...

(It's strange to write that, since I'm in the no-extra action Team, but well... an extra swift action would be nice after looking at all of the different possibilities...)

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I do agree with you. Yesterday I tried to give my Oracle (Flame Mystery)a few Mythic tiers, only to realize... All of the cool path ability that could be useful are of the Archmage path, and most of them speak of "arcane spells".

It's kind of sad that if you try to make an attack-spell oriented divine caster you don't have any option really.

So here I am, joining my voice to yours!

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ANebulousMistress wrote:

Round 2, the summoner popped Mythic Power to add 1d8 to her roll and failed to escape the grapple. Asira misses with her daggers, the Gap Dragon claws her for decent damage. Veli flies almost straight up (makes the fly check) and drops the summoner from 80 feet. Falling damage is funny!

Veli has a flight speed of 160???

Don't forget that you can only move at half speed when you grapple!

Not that it would have changed anything in the end...

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Cheapy wrote:
Wouldn't the APL be about 25? This encounter adds up to CR 25+ by my math, and the terrain was disadvantageous to most of the PCs.

Don't forget that it was an average fight, where your characters had most of their spells and everything, even with the environment not being friendly.

You should probably have made that encounter into a CR27 at least in order to have a good fight.

CR = APL is a good fight in a dungeon, where you lose your ressources little by little, and it should almost never happen with Mythics characters, because they can get back of all their powers/spells/etc... back by spending one use of Mythic Power.

So yeah... try to make the encounter Hard or Epic if you just test for one fight.

What was the build of the fighter? I'm quite surprised to see such low damage...

If you want my opinion, try to make the player who made the monk a fighter based on str. Then it could give us a good point of comparison for Mythic Weapon Finesse.

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Hmmm... New question, In theory there is nothing preventing you from using abondant casting with a greater mythic version of a spell.
Would it be really all right?

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Midnight_Angel wrote:

Let's compare the effects of Endless Power between say, a Sorcerer and a Wizard.

By the time I qualify for Endless Power (being able to cast spells of 5th level), I have reached my apex of slots if I'm a Wiz (4 +1 for Specialist), as well as spells known as a Sorc (5).
If I'm a wizard, I'll add my Int Bonus to my number of slots; I don't think it's going to be less than +2.

Which means that, as a spontaneous caster, I can spam all of my 5 known level 1 spells all day. If I took the human alternate ability, I can even spam all (probably) 7 of my known level 1 spells.

As a wizard, however, I can spam a selection of 7 (or 8, as a specialist) level 1 spells, determined anew every day from the complete list of first level spells in my book.
Plus, unlike my Sorcerer buddy, I won't pay the casting time markup if channeling these through a Metamagic Rod.

Umm... is it just me, or is the whole affair another blow to the groins of spontaneous casters?

(Yes, I am aware that if I take this ability several times, I might get the advantage of adding meta'ed versions all of my low-level spells to my repertoire of spammable spells...)

Now, I admit that not every choice has to be of equal benefit for everyone... but I have yet to find mythic abilities that are of greater benefit to spontaneous casters than they are to prepared casters, instead of preferring prepared casters yet again.

Already under discussion, right here

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goldomark wrote:
When you use Amazing Initiative to get another turn, you do get another swift action in the same round. Maybe we're over looking this.

Amazing Initiative is gonna be changed, Jason already posted some other possibilities and none of them contains bonus swift actions

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Jason Bulmahn wrote:

The current solution was chosen because it was in line with how many similar powers and abilities have worked in the past.


Only one thing is certain. The calculation mechanic, be it a straight progression or one with an additive feature, will be simple to use. I'd prefer to avoid division and statistic comparison unless absolutely necessary.

The first sentence I quote is exactly why some of use think it is a problem. There are already a lot of reason in the rules to focus on a single ability score, Yes it works, but it's just another push in that direction...

Yesterday some of my players came and talked to me about it, they really felt like they had to chose between focusing in a single ability score in order to get more "Mythic" or build their character how they really wanted and get penalized for it.

It might not be that bad if the mythic tiers did not give you ability increase, but the mythic tiers does give you ability boost every 2 tiers, and you are penalized if you don't put that boost in your "main" ability.

In my opinion, character building and how players feel when doing it is a part of the playtest, and we can already see the impact here. You made a great job at creating archetype that opened a lot of different of playstyle, but the current system gives an edge to the straight fighter/wizard who puts all in one ability and forgets about the rest.

I don't have the numbers here but they showed me the different variant they made for their characters, and there was a 1-3 difference in mythic power uses.

And a lot of the dynamic right now revolves around mythic power "points" being the key to mythic spells/path features/...

But I do agree with you, the final mechanic must be simple and efficient.

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Just to clarify my thoughts. It is nice and I'm in the "We've got to keep it" clan, but maybe with a restriction such as: You can't select the same ability score every single time.

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voska66 wrote:
I don't see the issue really. Every class should focuses on 1 stat. In the end it really shouldn't be more than difference of 1-3 points in most cases. There are some extreme examples thought that can occur if one really wants to do that, but I find those tend be more theory craft than reality.

You seems to forget that every two mythic tiers, you gain a +2 to a chosen ability score.

That gap won't be 1-3 points in most cases at 2nd tier it will be 3-5, at 4th tier it will be 5-7, at 6th tier it will be 7-9,...

And why? Well, because it probably enhances your to hit, your damage and the number of use of mythic power per day.

If we changed the way it is calculated, then maybe you'll throw that +2 bonus to your secondary stat, once in a while.

Yes fighters/wizards/clerics/rogue can be focused on a single ability score, but you end up with clones. If you want to make a battle cleric, you can't put everything in Str, you need some Wis and some Con too! While a Fighter really only need a high Str bonus, Constitution being a nice add-on, but you're getting more HP at each level anyway. So you can limit yourself to one primary stat and a secondary that can not evolve without any problem.

Same thing with a wizard, just boost your Int to the max and focus on spell that requires a saving throw!

Skill monkeys characters and other classes will just not be able to get that much of that power!

Fighter/Wizard will get full advantage of the Mythic power points, while Paladins (Str+Cha), Rogue(Dex+cha or int or str), Monk(Str+Wis or Dex+Wis or Str+Dex+Wis), Bards(Cha+Dex, Cha+Dex+Int or Cha+Int) will have a less points... and why? Because their classes features requires them to invest in more than 1 ability score...

And I'm only talking about the Core classes here... If we had the base classes, such as the magus who need Int+Dex or Int+Str, and the others... the difference between the classes will only become bigger...

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Darkorin wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

Eww, my bad here, We used the move can be converted to swift action thing, which is not legal in pathfinder (we must have picked it up from another game). But well Metamastery still allows you to cast two spell per round which still is a lot...

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1 person marked this as a favorite.
KainPen wrote:
I see the advantage to spell casters, but this will make burn thru their spells per day more quickly. This one is going to be a hard one to blance out.

Do not forget Recuperation, for a single use of Mythic Power, a spellcaster car recharge all of its spells for the day...

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Dylos wrote:
I can find nothing on this page that supports your claim, please direct me to the RAW statement saying that a swift action can replace a move action.

Woaw... Ok, that changes a few things... Never noticed. Even if it is quite strange to not be able to take a more complicated action in order to perform a swift action, there are some case where it can make a great difference...

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Yeah, That seems really great Lucent.

Right now I feel like a lot of the current Path ability doesn't revolve about the fact that a mythic character is superior to non-mythic.

Most of them revolves just around giving you more power, while not caring if you are fighting mythic creatures or not. It would be really interesting to make some or most of the path ability work only against non-mythic creatures.

The abilities could give you a little boon when you fight against Mythic Creatures, but it does sure feel like it would be a lot easier to make all of the abilities that way. Then a "Mythic fight" would seem more like a normal challenge, while a non-mythic one would be a lot easier.

I'm wondering what Jason would say about this way of thinking and building path abilities.

We could also modify some of the pre-existing path ability, like this:

Competent Caster (Archmage path ability):
(Ex): You learn to cast your simple spells with grace and ease, allowing you to maintain focus on the foes around you. Whenever you cast an arcane spell that is at least one level lower than the highest level spell you can cast using that spellcasting class, you automatically succeed at the concentration check to cast that spell if the source requiring you to make the check comes from a non-mythic creature. You must make a check normally for spells of the highest level you can cast.

Against Mythic creatures, you get a +4 on all of your concentration check to cast spell at least one level lower than the highest level spell you can cast.

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I do agree with you. A lot of the mythic feats or path ability can make you quite amazing things, and to have a bonus to dmg or to your spell DC every two tiers is really powerful.

It does come with a bunch of problem like Mythic powers number of uses, which is being discussed on several topic. Because this increase of ability scores is really a huge benefit to all of those who focus on a single ability...

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Right now Jason Bulmahn is trying to find out a new way to deal with Amazing Initiative. Why Because to get an extra turn every single round is a really powerful ability. So here I would like to begin the discussion around the Agile template.

Agile (MR1) is the template who has the lowest MR, but in my opinion it has the greatest bonuses. You double the speed of the creature, get more AC, get Evasion, and you act twice per turn...

Let's compare it to the Arcane/Divine and the Invincible/Savage templates.

The first two gives the creatures some spells. It's good right, but the creature will probably never have the time to really benefit from those, unless it has time to buff itself before combat. SR is really good, Aura of grace is nice.

The two last gain DR and energy resistance.

Now let's get into a combat situation.

An Agile creature will act twice in a single round, that means it can move a lot (speed is doubled), and/or attack a lot, making it a quite nasty creature. Yes its hps does not increase a lot, but it can become a quite challenging foe.

Now if you take the Invincible or Savage Template. There are quite a few way to go around the resist energy or the DR/epic. Clustered shot being one of them.
Yes it's a nice boon to have a DR, but will 10 less damage per attack will really mean a lot for a group of adventurer of level 10+?
Not from my experiences. Yes it can give it maybe one more turn of play, but the Agile creature will probably get more from his template than a savage/invincible creature (who has a higher MR)

In the end, it does seems to me that the Agile Template is the most interesting (and powerful) tool here, even if it's MR is the lowest. It can transform a creature into a Solo encounter, which is honestly quite awesome.

Arcane seems to be the 2nd best, because of it's SR which can be hard to deal with.

Savage can be quite nasty, but I do not feel it is as dangereous as Arcane or Agile.

Divine is quite interesting if you want a creature to assist the others in a combat.

Invincible all alone doesn't seem that good. I do understand the intent, but the fact that it can deflect one attack per round doesn't seem that important when there is a group of adventurer against it. The fact that the savage template gets the same resist and DR than it kind of make his name a bit sad.

My general opinion is... those are awesome. It's a quick and easy to use, I can easily build quick mythic creatures with those, and the possibility of stacking some of these templates together might make some very interesting encounters.

Now what do you think about these templates?

Should the Invincible template be given a little boost?(I sure think so, maybe increasing it's DR by 5)

Is the MR of Agile too low? (I'm a bit confused there, because it is a very powerful template, but increasing it's MR, might make the creature too weak in battle. A single level or tier for the PCs can be a huge boost of power)

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Hey everyone, I'm seeing right now a lot of different thread of people that speak their mind over different path abilities of different path, but it will soon be kind of hard to find and summarize different opinions and playtest experience.

I want to start that thread for the Archmage(and hope that other thread will soon follow for the other paths, and maybe a last thread for dual paths) and see if we all can make it into a reference thread for playtesting the Archmage.

I know there already is a thread about questions on some of the archmage path features, but it doesn't feel like the place to summarize the opinions/playtest of everyone.

I know that the people at paizo want playtest experiences and not opinions, but I do think that opinions are important too since it can help us to playtest the limit of some features.

I would like to propose that everyone tries to follow the same kind of presentation in their post, that would probably help a lot, it will only take a few seconds to organize your text, and it will probably help a lot.

For now I will only post one opinion and one playtest experience, in order to have that thread up and running.

Playtesting: Metamastery:
Last night, I tried DMing a few combat with some friends. One of them was a Wizard 12 / Archmage 6, with Metamastery, maxed. Let's say that the fight was short... for one use of mythic power, the wizard quickened all of his spells for 10 rounds. But 10 rounds were not needed... in his first turn could cast 3 spells(standard+move action used to cast 1 spell, + 1 bonus standard action from the 4th option of the Amazing Initiative alternatives), and if the other players did not finish the monsters before he could act a second time, he could have cast 3 spells per turn.

The possibility to apply quicken to ALL of your spells for 10 rounds is really really powerful. It means that in those 10 rounds, you can cast 29 spells. You could say that it's not that powerful because you will have a limit to the number of spell you can cast each day, but let's not forget that there is the possibility to get all of those spell slot back with recuperation.

Or you could use Endless Power in conjunction.

Opinion on Competent Caster:
Well... First thing first... Why competent? Does it mean you're an incompetent Caster if you're not Mythic? The name is kind of weird. a name like War Caster or Combat mental training would be better, but I'm quite sure someone will find an even better name.

Even if I like the ability, it does seems to render Combat Caster and Uncanny concentration a bit useless, and fighter specialized in Disruptive and Spellbreaker will be rendered powerless against such a caster. But it does go in the way that "Mythic characters bend the rules" so I kind of like it.

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Archmage Path Ability:

Energy surge (Ex): Your mastery over the different kind of energy made you discover the primal source of their power. You treat the energy resistance of non-mythic creatures as if they are 5 lower than normal. In addition, if you expend one use of mythic energy as a free action, for one minute you can ignore the energy resistance of non-mythic creatures, and you treat those who have energy immunity as if it were resist 20.

What do you think of it?? I wanted to try to give some kind of boon to those who specialize in an element over non-mythic creatures. I think it could be interesting since it doesn't really give you an edge over a mythic creature, but the character will seem mythic compared to others, since he could bypass the resistance of "normal" creatures...

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Hmmm, after a quick session of gaming combat I tend to say that I'm not really sure about those possibilities too.

Having an extra standard action is quite great... and the problem is, why shouldn't you take it on your first round?
A combat at mid or high-level (I'd say that mid level is around lvl7) doesn't last that long...

My players just all went: "We take the extra standard action now!".

I think the right now is that the "extra round" or "extra action" is either once every combat, or uses the same ressources that you use for mythic spells and other mythic abilities. And if you have to chose between an extra standard action (for 1 point) or to cast a mythic spell (1-5 points...), is there really a choice? You might take the mythic spell for some reason, but those would be "utilitarian spells" or use them in a non-conventional way (which is perfectly cool with me), but in a combat...

Taking an extra standard action is really really better than most of the other abilities, and once per combat is a lot.

Maybe we should try to find another way.

Every Mythic character could maybe get a number of extra standard action it can takes per day equal to half his tier? And limit the number of extra standard action to one per round?

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I had created a topic about that exact subject yesterday, I won't copy/paste everything i said here, but you can have my opinion if you follow that link

But yes, I do agree with the fact that the game mechanic tends to force people into maxing a single stat (with the +2 ability bonus every 2 tiers you get...), which is kind of sad.

I'm pleased to see there are other people out there thinking like me, in most of my gaming group the moment they read the playtest, they just went "oh no... not again" about the mythic ability score, but it doesn't seem to bother that much people on the forum...

PLEASE James, hear our pleas and do not give everything to min/maxer

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