DarkWhite's page

Hmmm ... since I encouraged the use of Shisumo's pregens by linking them to threads in which players/GMs were asking for pregens, c873788's enquiry has prompted me to have a look through them myself.

I must admit, the Alchemist had me flipping through the APG scratching my head, until I realised Pathfinder Society swaps Brew Potion out for the Extra Bomb feat.

So it's good to ask questions, if not to independently audit the pregens, at least to brush up on our own rules knowledge.

Considering how very easy it is to overlook the origin of a feat, I think Shisumo has done an extraordinary effort to get these pregens out within days of the APG's release. He's provided an awesome service to the community, and it would seem he's done his sums well.

Ah, I was afraid that may have been the case. Unfortunately, you're restricted to official Pathfinder Society pregens for higher level play. I too hope they release the four APG pregens soon, as I know at least one player intends to play higher tier sessions without a current character at PaizoConOz next month. For the record, I hope they release pregens for each of their iconics, as they had for the 3.5 era.

Josh has said that four of the six new APG base classes are on their way, but in the meanwhile, as mentioned in a couple of other threads recently, Shisumo has created first-level pregens, one race for every class:

• Pathfinder Society Pregens for Pathfinder RPG
• Pathfinder Society Pregens for the Advanced Player's Guide

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Personally when a player walks up with a 1st level pre-gen and wants to play I offer him/her a Chronicle at the end of the scenario as long as they promise that by the time they sit down to play again they'll have an actual character made. That's not anywhere in the rules and I'm sure my peers here on the boards will take me to task for this practice.

Doug Doug, you'll get no argument from me.

I encourage new players to start with a pre-gen, and file the serial numbers off - eg, give it a new name, swap out a feat, weapon or spell, to personalise it, make it their own.

If you're looking for a wider choice than Ezren, Merisiel, Seoni or Valeros, have a look through these created by Shisumo, one race for every class:

• Pathfinder Society Pregens for Pathfinder RPG
• Pathfinder Society Pregens for the Advanced Player's Guide

First-level pre-gens are a great way to get quickly into the game, and gain that credit for your first session. Once you've played a few sessions, and you've leveled the character up a level or two, you start making your own feat, weapon, spell choices, and it ceases being a pre-gen, it takes on a personality all your own.

As mentioned in the APG rebuild thread, Living Arcanis allowed characters to totally rebuild their character at any time before reaching 3rd level for this very reason. Most players don't, but it's a very handy allowance for new players who might feel they've been saddled with poor character choices made before they really understood the game.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Ok now try this example:

What if you are by yourself, your 7th level. The only table available to play (and you have a ticket for it) is a tier 1 because every one of the higher tiers are full. Do you turn me away? The option there is to play a pregen or create a new char. Is that fair? I don't think so. Where as an alternative is to play the pregen and get the credit on your 7th lvl. That seems fair.

If you (or your friend) have a 7th level character, you've obviously been playing Pathfinder Society for a while, and know how things work.

I understand players wanting to advance their primary character, but reality is, there won't always be enough players of your level to form a table each session, or the tables of your level may already be full.

I can't stress enough, and I include a footnote on every event page I write for an upcoming convention, that it's in the very best interests of players with higher level characters to bring a back-up low-level character so they always have a character appropriate for any level of play.

Pre-gen characters are available for players new to the game, or those that arrive unprepared, so players can get into the game quickly and not hold up the start of the game for everyone else. Only bringing a 7th level character to an event you may need to play at a lower level table is definitely arriving unprepared.

Secondary characters give you the opportunity of playing something you may not have tried before. Have a look through the Advanced Players Guide, for example.

High level play is rewarding, but don't dismiss opportunities for low-level play too. It's a great way to introduce new players (particularly friends) into the game.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

I'm completely with Arnim Thayer on these points.

I'd like to add, I mostly GM Pathfinder Society at various games conventions, and slot-zero them with a local group of players. I occasionally get to play a character, but not nearly as often as I GM.

None of the examples I've raised apply to my own characters, most were hypotheticals, I'm not recommending rebuilds for my own benefit, I'm requesting them on behalf of many players I've gamed and talked with since the APG was released. These are not players trying to gain advantage from the system. They're players who have been building ad roleplaying their characters with a specific concept in mind, in some cases since society play began.

Some people have argued here about the administration woes for GMs. I really don't see that. As long as a player brings a Society-legal character to the table, and plays responsibly, I don't have any reason, or time, to check their character sheet and previous chronicle sheets for possible discrepancies. Society play uses the honour system, and I do expect players to respect that, and not rort the system. However, unless a player makes an obvious rules error during play, it's not going to cause me any administrative grief at all. All I record at the end of each session are the characters names, society numbers, factions, and prestige awards. Technically, I don't even need to know their race or class, much less their archetype of sub-domain. Month-by-month as the APG's release date become a distant memory, neither am I going to notice or care whether a character was built before or after the book's release.

Occasionally, a new player will make a character choice based on some mis-understanding of how the rules work, and ask me if they're allowed to make some change? If it's an honest mistake by a new player, it's a good opportunity to help them with the rule they were having problems with, and have a brief chat about the Organised Play system - many new players haven't read the Guide to OP. I'll usually advise they shouldn't make such changes after those choices have been made, but if I GM their table at the next con, I probably wouldn't remember every feat on their sheet, even less had they not drawn my attention to it, and I doubt any other GM would either, so make the change discreetly, and learn from the experience. The honour system vs RAW.

Living Arcanis allowed full character rebuilds until you reached third level precisely for this reason - new players unfamiliar with the system being stuck with poor character choices made when pressured to scratch a character together (or handed a pre-gen) minutes before the start of their first game.

I realise people don't want players rebuilds getting out of hand; however, to date, there have only been two releases of this importance to characters - the Core Rulebook and the APG. No other sourcebook has impacted characters the way these two books have.

Of course this issue is likely to arise again with the release of Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat and similar hardcover releases. I think as long as there are sensible restrictions, using the APG as an example (eg, other books may contain different elements):

1) you can't alter basics such as name, race, class, ability scores;
2) you may apply a newly released alternate racial traits, archetype, sub-domain, sub-school, where doing so more accurately represents the character you've been playing before the book was released;
3) feats/equipment/spells can be taken via normal character advancement.

I fully realise point 2) is subjective, and some players will ignore it, but at least it's there as a guideline to encourage versimiltude. It's no worse, I guess, than the hand-waving of story requirements for prestige classes.

@Enevhar: I realise Josh's rebuild is solely to migrate the six new base classes from playtest status to fully APG compliant, and was never intended to be any broader than that specific purpose. There's no mis-understanding there.

This debate is taking place because the APG contains options that are more appropriate for some player's roleplay concepts than their current builds allow, in some cases, perfect fits! Preventing long-time supporters of the campaign from these options while new characters are taking them freely is most unfortunate.

You're right in that no player is obliged to contribute to another's resurrection, but it's generally the right thing to do. When a character dies, that character could just as easily have been yours, it's often the fate of the dice, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time, trying to protect your adventuring companions.

I think archetypes are fairly balanced, for the most part, because you're swapping out existing class features for replacement ones. Generally, you're not gaining anything so much as you're reflavouring.

Should a Monk of the Healing Hand have to pay PA for sacrificing the ability to heal himself for the ability to heal others? When new Monks of the Healing Hand aren't burdened with that cost?

For many reasons I think paying for archetypes with PA is a poor choice.

I support the idea of allowing limited character rebuild, but not using Prestige Awards to do so.

I'm sure Josh has costed Prestige Awards carefully, without considering the additional burden of paying (a hefty?) sum for character rebuild. Prestige Awards become crucial at higher levels to fund possible character resurrection. If a player has already spent his Prestige Awards on a character rebuild, then this will only place greater burden on other players to contribute to the cost of the character's resurrection.

The only comment I've seen Josh make regarding character rebuild was:

Correct, you can change mysteries in your example. You couldn't, say, become a cavalier. :-)

Of course, this was in relation to an Advanced Players Guide playtest class, as required by the Guide to Organised Play.

Overwhelmingly the requests for character rebuilds have been to apply a character archetype. The cry for rebuilds haven't been for new feats or spells, because these can be chosen at your next level advancement.

I think a one-time-only permission for core class characters to apply a character archetype should be considered. Not a full rebuild, just add a character archetype to an existing class. Eg, a Ranger could become a BeastMaster, making any alterations required by virtue of that archetype, but he couldn't, say, become a Cavalier.

With all due respect, although the idea seems good at first glance, I think using PA for this is a bad idea, because it's other players that will ultimately be paying for the rebuild via resurrection costs later in the game.

DarkWhite wrote:

Please, which scenario is Miss Feathers from? (Spoiler tag it if you must)

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks TwilightKnight,

I'm scheduled to run these at PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane later next month. I'll have to get cracking on reading-up/preparing/slot-zeroing these now.

As a gay guy, I cringe whenever I see roleplayers ham up cross-gender roles, though I always ham up dwarves or fishing villagers at taverns with bad scottish accents, and I channel the Indian Seven-Eleven check-out dudes from Bootie Call in any Katapeshi or Vudrani scenarios I run, so that's just as bad I guess.

I'm really pleased to see gay and cross-gendered characters in Pathfinder secnarios, from understated same-gender relationships in Adventure paths, to Tallow Boys in City of Strangers, all presented in a non-gratuitous way.

I think I'll enjoy roleplaying Miss Feathers. He has the potential to become an instant classic personality, much like GrandMaster Torch before him. I just hope I do the role justice.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Please, which scenario is Miss Feathers from? I have to decide if I want to play it, or maybe I'm running it at PaizoConOz? (Spoiler tag it if you must)

DarkWhite wrote:

I must admit sadly not having played Eberron since switching from 3.5 to Pathfinder RPG

May I enquire why that is? You say you have run Rise of the Runelords - was that out of a desire to play in Golarion, or were you interested in having a published adventure (and had it been set in Eberron you would have played it in Eberron)?

Actually, the only games I got to play during the 3.5 era were at conventions. I loved Eberron (Mark of Heroes) the few times I played it, but locally Living Greyhawk and Living Arcanis were much more popular and Eberron sadly neglected. Later I was fortunate enough to play in a friend's home-brew Arcanis campaign.

During 3.5 era, I found Wizards released plenty of sourcebooks, but few adventures of any quality. I had thought Red Hand of Doom, Savage Tide or Shackled City looked rather promising, and was considering which of these to run for my group as the Edition change hit. Being a Dragon/Dungeon magazine collector, I purchased the first Pathfinder Adventure Path, Burnt Offerings, and was immediately hooked by the quality of adventure writing and setting support (town of Sandpoint) making my job as GM both easy and ejoyable. I knew I was onto a winner, and have been a subscriber since.

In the early days of Pathfinder, there wasn't much campaign setting published, initially just the first couple of issues of Rise of the Runelords. Getting my players to try a new setting was a hard sell. They were used to the rich background and character options of Living Arcanis. When I read the Desna (deity) article in RotRL #2, it inspired me to integrate raptorans (Races of the Wild) as the chosen of Desna to draw my players in, and they loved it!

Paizo have been publishing great adventure paths month-after-month ever since. For me, releasing the best adventures in an Edition in which I'm already familiar and have a library of compatible sourcebooks (I'm not afraid to mix/match from 3.5), and can readily find players, there really is no comparison.

DarkWhite wrote:

Advanced Players Guide released this week is the next major setting-neutral rulebook for players after the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. There's an awful lot in the APG that might fit well in an Eberron campaign.

Well, I still have shed loads of 3.5 books for Eberron and D&D in general that I still need to read, so a new book isn't what I am looking for. Though its interesting to know whats in it.

Ironically, I have just embarked upon an Eberron campaign using 4e, though I would have preferred running in 3.5, but 4e seemed the best option if I didn't want to go Pathfinder, wanted a ruleset that supports Eberron and also that I could get players for.

That's kind of funny, as they're precisely the reasons I stuck with 3.5. I could have run Eberron if the setting was as well supported with adventures as Pathfinder is. Alas, that's not the case.

DarkWhite wrote:

If Pathfinder wasn't the revolution you were hoping for, even though building on the same foundations, the Advanced Players Guide broadens the scope of the Pathfinder Core Rules immensely, and being setting-neutral, might give you pause for a second look.

I think I am more likely to check out Pathfinder again when it gets a 2nd Edition. By then I may have had a chance to play out my desires with Eberron and either be willing to do the conversion work, or maybe give Golarion another go.

I've seen you refer to Pathfinder 2nd Edition several times during this thread - I think you're beating a dead horse. You'd be better served spending your efforts playing either 3.5, Pathfinder or 4E, and enjoying that choice, than placing any hopes on an edition change that isn't yet on any horizon. Obviously the APG isn't an edition change, but it is a stack of new options that is available now.

Though I'm truly not trying to convert you. I have friends who play and enjoy 4E, so I know where you're coming from, and respect your choice.

I've actually looked through Eberron 4E books in the store to see whether I could salvage the campaign information for my own 3.5 or Pathfinder games, but decided I'd probably gain little from the effort. I'm probably better served using my 3.5 Eberron books for that purpose.

Hi DigitalMage,

As both a Pathfinder and an Eberron fan, I've been reading this thread with some interest. I must admit sadly not having played Eberron since switching from 3.5 to Pathfinder RPG, though I would be interested in doing so, or incorporating Eberron elements into my Pathfinder games. Eg, I've carefully integrated Raptorans (Races of the Wild) into a Rise of the Runelords adventure path, and could see myself doing somethig similar with Races of Eberron.

Advanced Players Guide released this week is the next major setting-neutral rulebook for players after the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. There's an awful lot in the APG that might fit well in an Eberron campaign.

The Alchemist is the first example that comes to mind. Crazed scientists, leather lab-coat goggle-wearing, elixir mixing, bomb-throwing, Jeckyll and Hyde mutagens. Very Eberron film noir.

The only aspect of Eberron I had trouble with was the Kalashtar - I love psionics, but Kalashtar seemed an unnecessarily confusing way to introduce psionics into a setting. A major departure from Eberron cannon, but maybe the Quori could make their presence felt on this world not by co-habiting the minds of their hosts, but by manifesting as summoned eidolons.

There's also the other new classes: cavaliers, inquisitors, oracles, witches, each could play a role in Eberron; and archetypes for core classes which greatly expand character concepts - eg, druid animal shaman archetypes might compliment well with the shifter race. And that's just scratching the surface.

If Pathfinder wasn't the revolution you were hoping for, even though building on the same foundations, the Advanced Players Guide broadens the scope of the Pathfinder Core Rules immensely, and being setting-neutral, might give you pause for a second look.

I'm also guessing the anti-paladin might have been designed to take on a balanced party of 4 heroes.

So what happens when any other class takes on a balanced party of four? If you want a balanced fight, you also put him in a balanced party of four; or you do as you would any other BBEG and give him an extra level or two to make him an appropriate challenge for your group.

Making "NPC classes" inherently more challenging than a core class of equal level, is flawed design from previous editions of the game. Any class can (and usually does) serve as an "NPC class". Anti-paladins should be no different.

I'm pretty sure there's not going to be any "retroactive adaptation" allowed.

I suspect you're probably right.

However, for the sake of argument: applying my example of character concepts to your example of wolf shaman, let's say you've been playing a druid as a character with a family history of lycanthropy who, when realising he'd begun exhibiting these traits himself, fled to the wilderness as he feared harming those close to him. In keeping with your character concept, your druid has only ever summoned canines/wolves, and only ever wildshaped into canine/wolf form. Maybe you've even drawn a bearded woodsman with wolf companion portrait as a cover page to your character folder, and everyone you've ever shared a table with recognises you as "that wolf guy".

Now you read Wolf Shaman in the Advanced Players Guide, and think, WOW! This is the character I've already been playing! But I'm not allowed to rebuild my current character, I have to apply it to a new character? No way :-(

I'm using that as a specific example, but many players have roleplayed aspects of their character in various ways at the expense of rules optimisation, and it would be a shame not to reward those choices with appropriate archetypes if that's how they've been playing their character all along.

I know, where do you draw the line though? You either allow rebuild to everyone or none at all.

Here is another one.

Can a GM update his character if he has never played it? It has made levels because of GM rewards.

It is a slightly different situation to where a character has actually seen the light of day.

You absolutely could if I were GM. I think you'd have to be pretty snarky to disallow this specific situation.

I think the rebuild concern is with breaking versimiltude, or the perception of "cheating" (changing previous choices mid-career for personal gain), neither of which wouldn't be an issue if you'd not yet played that character at the table with other players.

Pros: More players bring the Advanced Players Guide with them to Pathfinder Society events. This can't be a bad thing!

Undoubtedly some players will use a rebuild as an opportunity to min/max their current character. So I could understand applying Advanced Players Guide rules to new characters, or to existing characters only as level advancement permits.

However, there are a lot of character concept ideas in this book that may just fit the image the player already has of his character and has been doing the hard way with Core Rules choices and roleplay, whereas an archetype would be a much more natural fit.

I thought Red Mantis Assassins were supposed to be, you know, Red?

Pathfinder Basic only needs to cover the first 3 levels - enough for new players to play the first book of an Adventure Path, the first Tier of a Pathfinder Society scenario. 3 levels will keep page-count to a managable level.

Four character classes - and no, they don't have to be the typical Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard. With the Advanced Players Guide now released, a Pathfinder Basic could be a gatway product not only to the Core Rulebook, but to the Advanced Players Guide classes too.

Release a Pathfinder Basic every 12 months, each annual release could offer a different choice of classes to new players, and would make the series somewhat collectible.

Pathfinder Basic should include:
- four classes 1-3 level, including feats, equipment, spells etc;
- full-page 1st-level pre-gens of each of the four featured classes;
- bestiary chapter to support low-level play, eg goblins, skeletons, wolves;
- possibly a brief adventure, no longer than a Pathfinder Society scenaro;
- definitely a well-written chapter explaining how to find more gaming, where to go next: eg Core Rulebook, Advanced Players Guide, Bestiary I and II, Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Society, Adventure Paths, download scenarios, messagaboards, etc.

Pathfinder Basic is an entry level product, and therefore does not need to advance to 5th level - that would require additional feats and spells of the next level, blowing out page-count, and remove focus from the Core Rulebook and Advanced Players. It should give new players all they need to get started playing real games, but leave them with a creative hunger for more. Think of the D&D Basic Red Box.

Pathfinder Basic should be a narrow selection of rules, but should in no way be a "dumbed down" version. Altering rules in any way makes it less compatible with Pathfinder's other products. We need to make it easier to teach players how to play the same game, not create confusion between Basic/Core editions of Pathfinder. Someone with a Pathfinder Basic character sheet should be able to play at the same table as Core Rules players.

Does the second one remind anyone else of Thistletop?

Rampant speculation, but why would they commission art for Thistletop, if not for a RotRL Pathfinder RPG hardcover compilation?

Thanks so much for these, Shisumo, excellent work!

I'll definitely be printing these out and taking with me to PaizoConOz and other conventions for new players to choose from.

Linkified:

• Pathfinder Society Pregens for Pathfinder RPG
• Pathfinder Society Pregens for the Advanced Player's Guide

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Awesome idea. Sooo stealing this!

Please do!

Though I can't take credit for this one, a couple of Sydney guys arranged it, hiring a serviced apartment and flying down to Melbourne for the weekend. So it was a reunion of Melbourne and Sydney GMs, we each walked away having played a swag of new scenarios we could then go on to run at local conventions, and it was a great community building exercise, one of the better events I've had the pleasure of being involved in. Win/win for everyone!

@Masika: You'll always be welcome as a player at PaizoConOz, and I apologise if my previous post implied otherwise. I was trying to highlight the need to support GMs, and if by playing sessions at PaizoConOz means you get to take that experience away and run those scenarios for your players back home, then we are doing well to support another GM, and hopefully your regional group in North QLD - that's what it's all about, sharing the love!

I certainly appreciate your joining us to game in Brisbane, it's gonna be one helluva weekend!

Cheers,
DarkWhite

I'm another who completely agrees with Thod, Evergreen and others, that GMing is it's own reward. Where else can you be constantly entertained by the misadventures of a table of four-to-six players?

Credit is useful if you're GMing for a home group or have friends with whom you want to maintain characters of similar level so you can continue to play together. However, I've found applying credit to my characters simply means I get to play those characters less often. Eg, I've only played Slip a handful of times, and he's already level 9, and retirement isn't that far away. I've really enjoyed playing Slip on those occasions, but I regret that he's leveled up so fast and I've missed exploring this fascinating character more along the way.

As my friends have now started secondary or tertiary characters, maintaining characters of similar level is easier without having to apply GM credit, because you don't have to keep up with your friends primary characters, but can adventure with their secondary characters and still enjoy the journey.

Though prying players away from their characters, and encouraging them to GM remains a serious challenge. You can't believe how many offers I've had from players to GM at GenConOz/PaizoConOz, only to see those offers evaporate when they see the game schedule, and start booking in their play sessions.

I GM every session because any session I don't denies a table of six players, and every session I play denies a table of six players plus a player's seat at the table I'm playing. Multiply this by the number of players who could GM, but choose to play instead ...

We need to give GMs opportunities to play. The best way to do this is rotate the GM responsbility among your group, encourage existing players to GM a few sessions and help them any way you can, connect with other players via gamedays and conventions, and introduce new players to the game. Building a local community will help by providing you with a wider range of players and GMs of various levels and experience when you need them.

The best suggestion I can give is to connect with other GMs in your area, and GM scenarios for each other before running them for your home group or gameday or convention. Last year we held a four-day GM-only mini-con where the requirement for entry was you had to GM a minimum of two scenarios for the other participants. A couple of players tried GMing for the first time, and have since GMed for our home games and at public conventions. One will be GMing at PaizoConOz. We need to encourage more of this!

Organising an event such as PaizoConOz requires dedicated GMs, otherwise there would be no sessions for the players. But it requires a lot of effort, and someone has to burn scenarios to make it happen.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Hi Bacchreus,

It's okay to play 1 level above or below the advertised Tier. It's the average of all character levels at the table that determines the Tier at which the adventure is played. You'll be at a slight disadvantage if you play below tier, but played with a little caution, you should do okay.

I'd recommend signing up for your sessions as soon as you can, as some tables are already filling up.

We're keen to fill those sessions in which we're running less than 5 tables, particularly Sunday. We're finding several new players signing up for Tier (1-2) sessions early on, then moving onto Tier (3-4) sessions as their characters hit 3rd level on Saturday or Sunday. As a result, our Tier (3-4) double on Sunday has already booked out, and we may run the Sunday Tier (1-2) double at Tier (3-4) instead, depending on the average level of chracters at the table. Though if another GM were available on Sunday, we'd definitely schedule another Tier (3-4) double to help players out.

If you wanted to GM in a session already with 5 tables, we wouldn't turn down the offer. There are a few options here:

1) Many of our current GMs have had to sacrifice their own play sessions to provide the games you see on the schedule. One or more may raise their hand if you'd like to run their table for them.

2) We could probably make room for a sixth table (?)

3) There are several other locations running games over this GenConOz weekend, it might be possible to run any extra Pathfinder sessions for players at one of these other venues. The organisers I've spoken to have been extremely warm to Pathfinder, and while we're running games at various locations, we're still part of one big gaming weekend.

Feel free to email me directly if you wish to discuss GMing, and I'll include you in on any GM discussion emails.

GMs don't pay for sessions they run.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Hi Charles,

You're right, it is a tight turn-around, you raise a good point. However, this is the same time-table we ran GenConOz by last year, and run most of our Pathfinder sessions at Melbourne conventions. It's also the timetable that Living Greyhawk / Arcanis have always run by and Living 4E Realms still runs by today. It makes the difference between three games per day run tightly back-to-back, or two games per day with longer breaks, not utilising the full day (morning/afternoon/evening).

Many sessions won't run within the four-hours allocated, and will run over-time, spilling into the breaks between sessions intended for meal-breaks. GMs and players should be made aware of this, and play their games accordingly in an effort to finish on time. This can be achieved if everyone focuses on the game, players plan their actions ahead of their turn, GMs reign in idle chatter or interruptive behaviour, players help by looking up rules so the GM can keep the game moving, etc. While you have to be disciplined, it can be done if everyone co-operates.

Some scenarios highlight an "optional" encounter only to be run if time remains. These "optional" encounters are often road-bumps, using minions that have appeared in previous encounters in a slightly different configuration, referring back to statblocks used in previous encounters. In a time-limited convention situation, GMs should absolutely heed this advice, and cut "optional" encounters where necessary.

To be quite frank, I was horrified when the recommended time to run Society games was raised from 4hrs to 5hrs, albeit including admin/paperwork time. I believe there should be four encounters per scenario, not five. I want to run by the same time-table as Living 4E Realms, so players are able to switch freely between both systems. I want to have guaranteed meal breaks between sessions. I want to encourage opportunities for roleplaying vs roll-playing. Five hour games also make it more difficult to schedule sessions in the evenings after work or on weekends at a store whose opening hours are noon-5pm.

We may also notice the crunch more this year, as the campaign develops, characters are advancing and we're running higher level encounters which can take longer to resolve.

But it is what it is.

I'm happy if a game actually plays for four full hours, but paperwork/admin time fall into break-time. Players can wait around for their chronicle sheet and then disperse while their GM packs up and prepares for his next game.

I might add that the hotel imposes a no food or drink to be taken into the conference room rule, which is going to impact impromptu snack runs.

Last year I had Deluge bring back Indian take-away each night that went cold and had to eat back at my hotel room after midnight because there simply wasn't time to eat during breaks.

I found last year a 9am start gave us time for a relaxed breakfast to gather our calm and strength before the madness that lay ahead. And a good buffet or cooked breakfast is a good start to the day when you don't know when your next meal opportunity will be.

The unlimited gaming "get wrecked" entry has always defined the convention experience for me. The schedule is brutal, but no-where else can you cram as much gaming into four days than at a convention.

I've even had players ask if I'm up for a "midnight madness" session back in their hotel room, to which I've looked at them incredulously and politely declined, but such is the frenzy that many gamers expect of a convention.

It's much like the thrill of attending an international film festival, planning your schedule to within an inch of it's life to maximise the movies you want to catch - no sooner have the closing credits started rolling, and you're out the door, ticket in hand, to join the line queuing into the very same theatre to see your next movie. You live on bad cinema snack food for four days, and never see the light of day.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane announced!

Please refer to the PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane thread or event page for further information.

Hope to see you there!

Cheers,
DarkWhite
Pathfinder Society GM
PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane

Thursday 23rd September

Morning 9am-1pm (setup and registration)

Session A - Afternoon 2pm-6pm

#05 Mists of Mwangi (Tier 1-2)
#57 Before the Dawn Part I The Bloodcove Disguise (Tier 1-2)
#39 The Citadel of Flame (Tier 1-2)
#37 The Beggar's Pearl (Tier 3-4)
#47 The Darkest Vengeance (Tier 4-5)

Session B - Evening 7pm-11pm

#35 Voice in the Void (Tier 1-2)
#58 Before the Dawn Part II Rescue at Azlant Ridge (Tier 1-2)
#45 Delirium's Tangle (Tier 1-2)
#55 The Infernal Vault (Tier 3-4)
#16 To Scale the Dragon (Tier 5-6)

Friday 24th September

Session C - Morning 9am 1pm

#33 Assault on the Kingdom of the Impossible (Tier 1-2)
#24 Decline of Glory (Tier 1-2)
#29 The Devil We Know Part I Shipyard Rats (Tier 3-4)
#49 Among the Dead (Tier 3-4)
#27 Our Lady of Silver (Tier 5-6)

Session D - Afternoon 2pm-6pm

#04 Frozen Fingers of Midnight (Tier 1-2)
#07 Among the Living (Tier 1-2)
#43 The Pallid Plague (Tier 3-4)
#51 The City of Strangers Part I Shadow Gambit (Tier 3-4)
#25 Hands of the Muted God (Tier 5-6)

Session E - Evening 7pm-11pm

#08 The Slave Pits of Absalom (Tier 1-2)
#49 Among the Dead (Tier 1-2)
#30 The Devil We Know Part II Cassomir's Locker (Tier 3-4)
#52 The City of Strangers Part II Twofold Demise (Tier 3-4)
#17 Perils of the Pirate Pact (Tier 3-4)

Saturday 25th September

Session F - Morning 9am-1pm

#43 The Pallid Plague (Tier 1-2)
#41 The Devil We Know Part III Crypt of Fools (Tier 3-4)
#31 Sniper in the Deep (Tier 5-6)
#28 Lyrics of Extinction (Tier 7-8)

Session G - Afternoon 2pm-6pm

#06 Black Waters (Tier 1-2)
#03 Murder on the Silken Caravan (Tier 1-2)
#48 The Devil We Know Part IV Rules of the Swift (Tier 3-4)
#50 Fortune's Blight (Tier 5-6)
#36 Echoes of the Everwar Part I The Prisoner of Skull Hill (Tier 7-8)

Session H - Evening 7pm-11pm

#11 The Third Riddle (Tier 1-2)
#35 Voices in the Void (Tier 3-4)
#24 Decline of Glory (Tier 3-4)
#39 The Citadel of Flame (Tier 4-5)
#42 Echoes of the Everwar Part II The Watcher of Ages (Tier 7-8)

Sunday 26th September

Session I - Morning 9am-1pm

#51 The City of Strangers Part I The Shadow Gambit (Tier 1-2)
#57 Before the Dawn Part I The Bloodcove Disguise (Tier 3-4)
#45 Delirium's Tangle (Tier 4-5)
#44 Echoes of the Everwar Part III Terror at Whistledown (Tier 7-8)

Session J - Afternoon 2pm-6pm

#52 The City of Strangers Part II The Twofold Demise (Tier 1-2)
#58 Before the Dawn Part II Rescue at Azlant Ridge (Tier 3-4)
#53 Echoes of the Everwar Part IV The Faithless Dead (Tier 7-8)

Evening 7pm-11pm (clean-up and social catch-up)

Hi everyone,

With the cancellation of GenCoOz 2010 Brisbane, I know you've all been waiting anxiously to hear what's happening with Pathfinder that weekend, as I know many of you already have flights and accommodation booked for Brisbane.

Well, I'm pleased to announce we've been working hard behind the scenes to bring you PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane!

Held over the same four-day weekend, during the Brisbane school holiday break, Thursday 23rd - Sunday 26th September at the Riverside Hotel Southbank conference room.

We currently have 8 GMs running 46 sessions of Pathfinder spread over four days. We have a great line-up of scenarios, including Season 1, some newly released Season 2, and several Season 0 classics for those who might have missed them first time around, all spread over a range of character levels to welcome both new players and support those wanting to advance their existing characters.

We're aiming for 5 tables per session, but are short on GMs for a couple of sessions. So if you'd like to help out, there are still a few GM spots that need filling - contact me via the event page. This event wouldn't be possible without a great team of volunteer GMs.

To help cover our venue hire costs, games will cost $10 per person/per session played. Being a volunteer effort, we have no credit card or EFTPOS facilities, so cash only, pay on arrival. There is no additional registration fee, just pay for the games you play.

Pre-register to choose which sessions you'd like to play and reserve your seat at the table: AON - online convention site.

Note: all of Melbourne's big game conventions - Arcanacon, Conquest, Unicon - use this system for player registration, and Pathfinder Society features at all of them. Unicon 2010 Melbourne is held the very next weekend after PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane, so maybe I'll see you at both?

Try to choose sessions that match your character level. It will help if you can provide your character level when you register for each session - remember to project for character advancement (your character gains a level for every three games played). While we've tried to provide a range of Tiers each session to suit a wide range of character levels, if I notice some Tiers booking out much faster than others, we may look at adjusting the schedule to meet public demand.

While we'll do our level best to provide the games you've signed up for, due to circumstances beyond our control it might be necessary to change a session without notice. Please bring a back-up character just in case a table for your preferred character level becomes unavailable for any reason.

The Pathfinder RPG Advanced Players Guide is a great opportunity to try a new character with some fresh options. Just a reminder to any player with playtest versions of the six new base classes, now is the time to update your character to the final published rules.

Pre-generated character sheets are also available for new players unfamiliar with the rules, or anyone who arrives unprepared.

The cancellation of GenConOz caught everyone by surprise, and many games organisers had to find alternate arrangements for their players. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all the other game organisers for their effort and goodwill reaching out and helping each other under difficult circumstances.

I'd also like to remind all players that while PaizoConOz will be a Pathfinder event, there are many other games being held at other locations around Brisbane over these four days, and I'll be posting details of these event locations here over the coming weeks for those looking to enjoy a wider variety of games as information becomes available.

There's a lot of information to digest, and undoubtedly I've forgotten something, so if you have any questions at all, please don't hesitate to ask. I'll follow this post in a moment with a schedule of games.

Thanks for your patience with this. I'm really excited about running Pathfinder in Brisbane, and I hope you are too! Tell all your friends, and let's make this an event to remember!

Cheers,
DarkWhite
Pathfinder Society GM
PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane

Hi Bacchreus,

I'm organising PaizoConOz in Brisbane, Thursday 23rd - Sunday 26th September 2010, during school holiday break, in lieu of GenConOz which was canceled recently.

Did you attend GenConOz last year? Are you interested in coming to PaizoConOz this year? Are you in contact with any other local Brisbane players who might be interested in playing?

There are several interstate players flying into Brisbane for the event, but I haven't heard of any local Brisbane players until now. In fact all of the GMs for the event are interstaters. We're really interested to meet local Brisbane folk to encourage a Pathfinder community in Brisbane if one isn't already happening that we're unaware of.

I'll be making a big announcement here on the Pathfinder Society messageboards, hopefully tonight or soon after, regarding venue, games schedule, session times, costs etc.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Bookmarked. =3

I've been scouting out for a pathfinder game for a while, I'd love to get in on this once my HSC clears up. How does the organised play cope with latecomers?

Hi Twigs, welcome onboard.

I think organised play works remarkably well with newcomers, in that the scenarios are designed so that they're each their own little self-contained adventure, you could be playing with different players at each session and scenarios can be played in any order so continuity isn't an issue, and the campaign is still relatively young (Season 2 marks the beginning of it's 3rd year), so you won't feel like you're disadvantaged by missing years of plot development.

The only things you may feel, are learning about the various factions, recognising various cities/locations etc, but this is true for any of us who started, and you'll pick it up quickly enough during play (a little quicker if you do some reading), and gamers are typically keen to share their knowledge of such things.

Another thing you may experience as a newcomer starting out at 1st level, is that others who have been playing for a while, will be higher level than you. [Edit: ninja'ed by Neil - character level shouldn't be a problem] This is something we've been experiencing even in our home games here in Melbourne, wanting to invite new players to the game, but our characters are too high to play at the same table. What we've done is to create secondary, and even tertiary characters, so we always have a low-level character we can use to help support new players entering the system. It means our primary characters don't level quite as fast, but it means we get to encourage new players into the community, and ultimately that benefits everyone.

Also, while a few Season 0 scenarios have been retired, most are still available for play, and some are still quite popular. As newcomers like yourself arrive on the scene, GMs who are already familiar with these scenarios are quite likely to run them again, because it's easier than purchasing, reading, preparing a new scenario. So it's not like you really missed them yet at all.

We'll also be running Pathfinder Society scenarios in Brisbane over the Thursday 23rd - Sunday 26th September (during school break). If you could make the trip, 10 scenarios played over four days would be an awesome way to throw yourself into the campaign, and achieve 4th level by the end. Players will be traveling from all over Australia, and I know of 11 Sydney players already who will be coming to the event, so it's another opportunity to meet and make contacts with other gamers in your area. We'll be making an announcement regarding venue and other details in the next few days.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Shouldn't you rename the topic to : PaizoConOz announced? ;-)

People spontaneously started dubbing this effort PaizoConOz in the wake of GenConOz, and it rapidly gained momentum, and I can understand this sentiment and enthusiasm.

However, cooperative negotiations are still being held with other organisers, all of who are scrambling to provide an event for their gamers.

It would be a win/win for all participants if one venue could support all gamers. However other organisers could feel it inappropriate should we promote such an event as "PaizoCon".

It might also be that Brisbane hosts a distributed gaming event with different games being held at a range of smaller venues. PaizoConOz could be one of those.

This may determine whether or not we run with the PaizoConOz title or not.

Australia needs a national event where Pathfinder GMs can meet once a year, and a roaming PaizoCon held in a different Australian city each year is being suggested for this purpose. Brisbane may or may not be the first of these.

Rest assured, once we have firm details for a Pathfinder venue in Brisbane, and for obvious reasons we're moving as fast as we can on this, I'll announce it here and also move discussion to a new thread titled appropriately.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Don't despair - we will absolutely(!) be running Pathfinder sessions Thurs 23rd - Sun 26th September, as there are too many interstate players who already have airfares/accommodation booked looking for something to do in Brisbane.

We'll make an announcement as soon as we have secured a venue, which we're hoping will be in the next few days.

> Watch this space! <

DarkWhite wrote:

It would be really helpful for a Brisbane gamer with local knowledge to be involved in this side of things, if anyone is out there? Particuarly someone with contacts, venue booking experience, or just ideas for a place we out-of-towners might not be aware of.

I suggest you talk to the guys at "The Stockade", as well as Steve Darlington as they are both looking to set something up in Gencon Oz's place.

I'm also aware of others trying to set something up in GenConOz's place, but thanks for the contacts, it's all useful. Information is shifting daily on this (if not hourly), as various people get in touch, so stay tuned ...

I don't want to get to the event and be handed 1st level pre-gens when there are 2-3 other players with characters at 7th level.

In most likelihood, there'll be more than one table running that 1-7 game, players with low level characters will be grouped at one table, players with higher level characters will be seated at another table, etc.

If you prefer to play your own character rather than handed a pre-gen (even a 7th level pre-gen), then you might want to change your 5-9 session to one available for 1-7 (or some other range available for first level characters).

You do have the opportunity to level your character up after every three games played, and can continue playing that same character at any other Pathfinder Society convention, game-day or even home game. That's how you advance to play those higher level games. But your first game starts with a first-level character, unless you want to be handed a one-shot 7th level pre-gen.

That 5-9 session might be a fun game with a 7th level pre-gen, but it can only be played once, you can't gain levels or purchase equipment between adventures with a pre-gen that didn't start out at 1st level.

>> You can download and print the currently available pre-gens here <<

RizzotheRat has made some initial enquiries, and a few venues are going to get back to him on Monday. But certainly if anyone has other suggestions to offer, please email me (my contact details available on the PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane event page) and I'll cc: Rizzo and yourself in on email correspondence between us.

It would be really helpful for a Brisbane gamer with local knowledge to be involved in this side of things, if anyone is out there? Particuarly someone with contacts, venue booking experience, or just ideas for a place we out-of-towners might not be aware of.

Preference would be somewhere within the city, as that's where most will have booked their accommodation already, but somewhere easily accessible by public transport could also be an option if it was a good space for a good price.

As an example, Rizzo has found hotel conference room space for $300/day. Don't know yet if it's available on the dates we'd need it, but this is one of several options we're looking into.

Thinking outside of the box, I've heard of gamers using conference-room office-space on weekends. There would of course have to be some strict supervision and rules around using such space, but if there were a local gamer with a bit of influence in their company that was interested in making this happen, it could be an option.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

@Darkwhite

Any chance of a program (draft)? I see that you advertised the generic scenarioes but I am dying for the proposed list.

I will play where I can but if there are sessions where there is no games for me I am happy to GM.

We had submitted 55 sessions to GenConOz, and were awaiting approval before announcing them on the boards. Unfortunately, with changed circumstances, the schedule will need to be re-worked due to:

• GM availability - we have most GMs on-board, but not all, due to the GenCon cancellation;
• venue dates - we're aiming for a four-day convention, but maybe we find a great venue at a good price that is only available for three out of four days;
• venue hours - may restrict us to two sessions per day instead of three;
• venue space - how many tables will fit comfortably in the space available?
• less gamers may hear about the event without GenConOz promotion;
• GenConOz was more than a games-day, it was a show! I know people already have cancelled their plans to attend on hearing the news.

Reduced attendance means sadly the number of tables we had planned to run probably won't all be required. I'll have to consider how this affects scheduling.

For example, the previous schedule was tailored to meet individual GMs session availability; scheduling four-part series, running some twice, once at low level, once at mid-level, so that more players could get an opportunity to play them; ensuring a mix of low and mid level scenarios were available across every session; spreading a few Season 0 scenarios throughout; considering working folk may only be available on the weekend; avoiding awkward overlaps etc.

The schedule might look like a random assortment of scenarios, but believe me, many many hours of planning and negotiation went into putting it together. Now if any of the variables described above change, the whole schedule may need to be reworked.

We don't have GenCon's online registration, so I'll look into using AON - online convention site.

GenConOz is the only convention I've attended that expects attendees to sign up for sessions weeks or months in advance. Local Melbourne conventions have operated largely on a sign-up on the day basis. As a result, it has been impossible to predict player numbers, character levels, or scenarios already burned. We list every scenario on a white-board, muster players together, and allocate scenarios to the players requirements.

I'm not suggesting we take this route with PaizoCon, but i am suggesting due to changed circumstances, to be prepared to change to another table on the day.

I'm not trying to paint a gloomy picture of the event. We have GMs, we have players, PaizoConOz will go ahead, and adventures will be run. In fact, grouping together and running it ourselves after the GenConOz announcement makes it much more personal, something we can all feel proud we made happen.

All I'm suggesting is that there are simply too many loose ends to be able to release a schedule of scenarios yet. The scenarios listed on the PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane page are those we submitted to GenConOz and have GMs prepared to run and is the best guess we have right now. Though the list is likely to change now, and I can't release session times until we have a secured venue.

Though I welcome any offers to GM, they really can't be dependent on knowing in advance what sessions you might want to play first. Otherwise, I'll be tying myself in loops trying to accommodate everyone's personal requests.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Just to add to the best wishes for PaizoCon Oz from the UK. GenCon UK going down last year was pretty much what led to Dave (Wintergreen) coming forward and with PaizoCon UK stepping in to fill the gap for the crazy (in the best possible way) UK gamers who play PFS. :)

Wow, I hadn't realised that. Deja-vu, huh?

Thanks for the best wishes. PaizoCon UK is happening this weekend, right? Best wishes to everyone participating from those of us on the other side of Golarion! Hope you all have a blast, and say "hi" to Josh :-)

Cheers,
DarkWhite

Perth actually has SwanCon.

Okay, thanks for the info. Jots note in diary - No PaizoCon for Perth!

Just kidding, of course! I've met a Perth guy or two who used to fly regularly to Melbourne cons as they claimed there wasn't really anything in Perth. Is SwanCon a recent development? And is it your only annual convention?

Melbourne is currently blessed with three annual conventions: Unicon, Arcanacon and Conquest. In recent years, there have also been others, including DwarfCon and RetroCon. Geelong also has a regular weekly Pathfinder game-day (Geelong Gamer's Guild) held at GoodGames Geelong.

So while Perth may already have SwanCon, it's still under consideration for a future PaizoConOz.

Adelaide would be a good choice for me, as I grew up there and familiar with the place, and know a few game stores in the area.

Adelaide used to host a games convention set in the Old Adelaide Gaol, where the games were held sitting in the cells of the jail. That one has been on my wish list to attend for a while now, but I've heard it hasn't run for the last few years? It would be awesome to hold a Pathfinder event there if it's still available as a venue, maybe with jail-themed scenarios (there are a couple as I recall).

But as I generally visit family back in Adelaide each Christmas anyway, and have a couple of gamer contacts there, I might be able to organise a Pathfinder game-day in Adelaide then.

I'm happy to plan a future PaizoConOz wherever it's most needed. The thought is that Melbourne and (presumably) Sydney are already well serviced with game conventions and game-days throughout the year, so while I'm sure they would enjoy hosting yet another Con, they don't really need it. The goal is to show other cities what they're missing out on, and to encourage them to start up their own Pathfinder communities.

I've heard comment from many gamers why was GenConOz held in Brisbane when most gamers appear to be concentrated in Melbourne and Sydney? Surely travel inconvenience would be minimised if held in either of those cities and attendance would be greater? But having attended GenConOz last year, one of the most refreshing aspects of it was meeting new gamers, both Brisbane locals and travellers from throughout Australia, and introducing them to Pathfinder, instead of providing sessions to the same crowd of regulars who already enjoyed the game (preaching to the converted).

PaizoCon should be an outreach program to help grow the hobby in new areas, supported by recognised GMs throughout Australia.

@Josh: I hope there's no problem with assuming the name PaizoConOz for an Australian event? The thought was, Australia needs a national Pathfinder event, a place where GMs and organisers throughout the country can meet annualy. As a fill-in for GenConOz with GMs and players flying in from cities all over the continent, it's not really a local Brisbane convention, but a rather unique national gathering, and holding future PaizoConOz in other cities helps maintain this role. The original PaizoCon (USA) was a fan-initiated event, and due to the most unfortunate cancellation of GenConOz, fans re-grouping to keep the games running is definitely true to the Paizo community spirit.

@Masika, I'll be attending both PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane and Unicon 2010 Melbourne :-) They're held on consecutive weekends. It's going to be a busy fortnight!

Thanks for your help looking into venue options, Rizzo.

I have updated the GenConOz-2010 event page here on paizo.com with news of the cancellation and renaming it PaizoConOz 2010 Brisbane. I thought this was better than cancelling the old event and creating a new one, as any links to the previous event page will now advise visitors of the change.

I'll update it with venue details as soon as we've secured one.

The scenario line-up is likely to change depending on venue hours, GM availability and number of tables we end up running.

I'll try and get an event page up for Unicon shortly.

I have no experience with booking venues or what the costs might be. I presume someone would have to pay up-front to book the venue, and be re-imbursed with fees per session afterwards. Being a volunteer run event, we don't want anyone being out-of-pocket at the end of the day. Are there any GST taxation requirements? Public liability insurance etc? Anyone have any experience with these issues?

Presumably the event would have to be in the city, as that is where people have booked their accommodation. Does that make venue options more expensive? Any Brisbane folk able to help out with local knowledge?

Unicon Melbourne is going ahead anyway, and most definitely I was going to run Pathfinder Society there, so for any Melbourne folk who feel the trip to Brisbane isn't worth the effort without the whole GenCon experience, there will be Pathfinder for them to enjoy at Unicon.

As you have pointed out, there are a good number of you with flights and/or accommodation already booked for Brisbane who can't change those now, as well as the local Brisbane community who'll be missing out, so it makes sense to run something in Brisbane on that weekend.

PaizoConOz sounds like a great idea, and I'd like to propose now that it be held in a different city each year (starting this year with Brisbane for obvious reasons) for the following reasons:

1) Let's be optimists and hope that GenConOz may return another year. We really don't want to be competing in the same space with them, Brisbane in September is their gig.

2) Let's bring Pathfinder to cities in our region that are lacking their own cons. Eg, Adelaide, Perth, Hobart, Darwin, New Zealand, Singapore even? A small fan-supported con could achieve this, whereas a larger event might struggle.

3) Over at the Regional Coordinator Apply Now thread, there has been much debate over the Australian region being too large for any one person to be responsible for. Certainly it will be a challenge, but I think something like a roaming PaizoCon could go a long way to building and supporting a Pathfinder community network around Australia, one city at a time.

What do you think? Anyone on-board with this idea?

Hi All,

I thought I'd better give this topic it's own thread title so that anyone who had planned to attend is made aware as soon as possible, particularly for those of us arranging interstate travel and accommodation, that GenConOz have announced on their website the cancellation of the event in Brisbane for 2010.

Website
Press Release

I am extremely saddened by the news. Having spent many long hours scheduling events, and many email discussions with a great team of GMs, we were to run up to seven tables per session, over 50 tables in all, double last year's coverage. I was truly looking forward to meeting you all, running some great games, and building the Pathfinder community across Australia. I think this is an enormous missed opportunity for all of us.

I'll remain in discussion with my GM team over the next few days and keep an eye on this thread, to hear what people's feelings are on this. Most people I've heard from have been keen to do something in the spirit of GenConOz in it's wake.

One suggestion I've heard is "A lot of us have already bought our tickets, we may as well make something of it anyway" - though if games were to take place, we'd need to find our own Brisbane venue.

Another suggestion has been let's use that weekend to support Pathfinder in our local communities by offering gamedays or mini-conventions.

Yet another suggestion is to divert the time and money you would have spent on GenConOz to support another interstate convention with your attendance instead.

Or to pour the energy and enthusiasm you've held for GenConOz into other conventions throughout the year to make them the very best they can be!

Note: Melbourne's next convention Unicon is being held the very weekend after GenConOz was due to run (Friday 1st - Sunday 3rd October, 2010) so that might be a good choice.

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers,
DarkWhite

OMG!

Someone, please, tell me this is an Aprils Fools joke?

I'm shattered! :-(

Well I plan on attending Gen Con again this year. Hopefully I'll get two full days in which should pump me up from my current level of 2, to the heady heights of 3 and a bit. (4 games last gencon and 4 games this gen con should get me to level 3 correct?)

Unfortunately my time is taken up with pursuing my home campaigns so I never get to play or run organised play games. Unfortunate really since there was a group that was trying to get up and running at one stage, but I haven't heard how its all going now.

If anyone knows about organised play in Brisbane, can they post some info here, I'd be interested to see what's going on.

Cheers

Hi Korrbadaa,

Yup, eight games should advance you to third level.

Unfortunately, running Pathfinder Society scenarios in preparation for conventions like GenConOz has taken away time I previously ran adventure paths. Well, that and house-hunting. But now house-hunting is behind me, I hope to resurrect one of my adventure paths soon (fingers crossed!)

I'd be surprised if there were no organised play in Brisbane after running Pathfinder Society at GenConOz for four days last year? C'mon guys, what's happening?

This year, I hope to organise a Pathfinder Society after-party or dinner or some social meetup in the missing Sunday evening session to give Pathfinder players an opportunity to network with others or find out what's happening in their local area.

Look forward to seeing you at the games :-)

Cheers,
DarkWhite

MerrikCale wrote:

Frankly I don't understand this aversion to new base classes. Look at the excitement generated by the playtest of the APG and the upcoming Magus. Why not more?

I'm just not a fan of class bloat. Personally, the only one of the new classes I see a "need" for is the oracle, as we don't have a spontaneous divine caster yet. It makes sense to have one. The cavalier, summoner, and witch are very specialized forms of base classes. The alchemist is a weird class that somehow comes out of left field, and I don't get the role of the inquisitor at all. And I especially don't think the magus as a class is necessary - to me, the eldritch knight is good enough for that concept, but that's already been discussed ad nauseam.

I generally like what I've seen so far with the new APG classes. They're not all for me, eg I don't really see the need for a cavalier, but the point is that different classes will appeal to different players, and if the concept of a cavalier appeals to another player, then it's good for them. For example, the witch class inspired me to build a character I don't think I ever would have using any of the core classes. While the mechanics might be similar - hey it's just another spellcaster - often its the detail that can spur the imagination and build the flavour.

Archetypes and other class options to be found in the APG may very well sway my opinion on base classes for oriental characters, particularly if in the next 12 months we start seeing players identifying their characters at the table not as "Hi I'm Trevish, a Chelish halfling rogue" but "Hi I'm Trevish, a Chelish halfling sniper", ie if archetypes transcend the base classes they're hung on, and take on an identity of their own. It's like learning a new language - it only feels natural once you stop translating things over from your mother-tongue.

Justin Franklin wrote:

So to continue with rampant speculations what do people think will be the first AP for 2012? I like the Worldwound idea.

I've been fighting for a Mendev/Worldwould based mass battle AP ala something out of the Heroes of Battle supplement for a while now. Would love to see it Feb 2012. The mass combat rules in Kingmaker were a good start but definitely need to be expanded on in either a full article or even a companion book or something.

Especially I like from the Heroes of Battle the idea of running a mass battle as a dungeon rather than as a single encounter. A medieval battle is generally a rather long event with plenty of opportunity for small player group sized encounters within it all aiding the greater battle.

I haven't read the mass battle rules from Kingmaker yet, so I can't comment there. But I agree with you 100% about the Heroes of Battle approach of running a battle like a dungeon.

For those unfamiliar with HoB, "running like a dungeon" means seeding various managable encounters for the hero PCs to accomplish while battle rages all around them. Encounters might include destroying a bridge which was your enemy's route for transporting food and equipment to their troops; protecting a messenger so that he can deliver a crucial message into or out of the warzone; infiltrating the enemy camp to rescue a captured general; not taking on the whole army, but taking out key individuals, such as a spellcaster guarding a mountain pass, or an enemy messenger to gain important information; etc.

The idea is much less one army vs another army facing each other off on a large battlemat, and much more run like a traditional adventure where each encounter adds victory points which contribute to your army's overall progress in battle.

I recently spoke to a samurai fanboy and his idea of a samurai base class was this: It's "like the fighter" but with d12 hit dice ("he is the ultimate warrior") and at least a second good save ("willpower!"). Of course he gets Exotic Weapon Proficiency (katana) and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (wakizashi) for free, and his katana and wakizashi are equal to a +1 keen longsword doing 1d12 damage and a +1 keen short sword doing 1d8 damage, of course only when wielded by the samurai himself, for others they would just be normal masterwork swords. And the samurai would of course get them for free at his initiation.

And of course he is absolutely serious about this. When confronted with the obvious balance problem, he just says, "of course it's better than the fighter, it's supposed to be!"

See, I don't see anyone else on this thread making these wild claims. I just think it's a good thing that Paizo are going to be publishing this line, and not the samurai player you spoke to.

As for namecalling, let's not use the term "fanboy". We're all players, GMs and customers here, even the samurai player you spoke to.

I do think samurai, ninja and other classes can be built using APG-style archetypes, and it wouldn't be a bad option. Whether or not Paizo introduce new oriental classes, they'll probably offer APG-style archetypes as an option for those who prefer them.

However, it's rather imperialistic thinking to presume western archetypes such as alchemist, barbarian, cavalier, paladin, summoner, witch are deserving of base classes, but their eastern counterparts, courtier, ninja, samurai, shukenja, sohei do not.

I dislike prestige classes for similar reasons - you have to advance several levels as something else before you achieve your namesake. Oriental classes should stand alongside their european counterparts, not hang dependent off them.

Other cultures not having their own culture-specific classes is an excuse, not a reason, and shouldn't prevent oriental base classes. Al-Qadim had it's own classes, the Sha'ir being a favourite, and Nyambe is a great sourcebook for African cultures with it's own classes. In time, I'd like to see sourcebooks for other cultures explored further.

I recall back in 1st Edition when a new base class would appear in the pages of Dragon magazine, but instead of balancing it with the core classes, they'd power it up and label it an "NPC" class. I remember even back then screaming "why?" Surely all base classes should be relatively balanced with each other. If you want a challenging encounter, you don't build a more powerful base class, you simply level the NPC up instead, that is what the level structure is there for!

I would hope that Paizo have demonstrated with the Pathfinder RPG and Advanced Players Guide base classes that they're capable of building interesting and balanced classes. I don't think we need fear samurai or ninjas overshadowing our fighters or rogues any more than paladins or alchemists do now.

And for the record, weren't WotC's 3rd Edition samurai and ninja classes largely abandoned by players because they were deemed to be under-powered? So I'm not sure where this fear of uber-samurai/ninjas is coming from?

I don't get it. Why is everybody(?) so eager for this pseudo-asian stuff?

I'd agree with the points James and others have mentioned, but also add that in today's multicultural societies, many of my friends are from Asian or East Indian backgrounds, who have grown up with their own mix of manga, anime, stories, movies, local religious beliefs, myths and legends. These are the friends I'd like to welcome to my games.

For decades our hobby has suffered gender imbalance. Whether because of it's historical wargaming roots, the heroes and protagonists written in many adventures, depicted in art or miniature figures have largely been male; or adventures written from a male perspective because they were written by males for a mostly male customer-base to identify with? Is it any wonder women haven't been attracted to the game in the same numbers when they don't see themselves included in a game that requires you to imagine yourself in the picture and play the part?

Why would players from other cultures feel any more included in a game which ignores their cultures and excludes them as heroes?

I think Paizo has made great strides in both gender and ethnic inclusion in their games, a trend I am sure they will continue. And I hope to game with players of any gender/sexuality, religious or cultural background as a result.