Damalon01's page

Thank you all I think I see where the wind is blowing me now.

I respect what you say there Bob but I do think theres one issue youre forgetting. There are essentially three reasons my character was killed:

1) We were warned but chose to ignore the warning

2) We ran out of time (I dont think I was clear on this one)

3) Death by box text

Its that the writer/producer chose to put the 2nd and 3rd conditions in the same scenario that seems very unfair, and all three together thats really making me angry. If the second condition or the third condition wasnt an issue I think everything wouldve been fine.

I absolutely agree that our choice to stay when were warned we had to leave deserved consequences, what I dispute is that it should have been instant death with no save.

While I might have been angry at a absurdly high DC on that save and may have written an angry review over it afterward, I doubt I would be considering quitting completely like I am now.

I very much hope the writer of the scenario and the leadership at Paizo at least notice what Im saying.

That helps a little Steven but so far it seems like a reason to leave PFS rather than a reason to stay. Not that I think its your job to convince me of anything.

Thank you Steven

Hi, I would like to discuss how cheap life seems to be in PFS and how often simple rules (such as getting a saving throw against box text effects or a perception check against box text ambushes) are being ignored.

Ive written a few reviews to this effect so rather than repeat myself I will provide links below.

http://paizo.com/products/btpy97n3?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-6-00-Legacy- of-the-Stonelords

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8xkj?Pathfinder-Society-Special-Ruins-of-Bone keep-Level-Two-Maze-to-the-Mind-Slave

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8gtv?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-213-Murder-o n-the-Throaty-Mermaid

Im seriously considering quitting PFS despite having made several friends through the Society and having encouraged several of my oldest friends to join up and then GMing several games for them.

I dont want to abandon these connections, I know if I quit PFS I simply wont see any of the people Ive gotten to know in the last two years but what else am I meant to do? Staying means enabling behavior in the game that I really dislike.

I said I dont run PFS, I didnt say I dont Play it. Also I didnt say its not okay to play it your way. Play it anyway you want. That being said I believe I have a right to give my opinion, whatever it might be, on any topic discussed here as a member of the community.

I said that this line of thinking might lead to meta gaming and I tried to explain the logic behind that.

I think it possible that some bad habits may be getting taught to new players, that's all.

Pretty much

The scenario you're thinking of where the npcs tells you that you should use alchemists fire on swarms is The Confirmation I think. If I were GMing and you showed me the Chronicle sheet after asserting that you know that i'd be satisfied because I know that it happens.

I do not run PFS though an this sort of thing is part of the reason.

It is supposed to take years for the Training. Assuming you attended the classes at Absalom and aren't a field commissioned Pathfinder.

Obviously if you dont have the knowledge skills, say knowledge Nature to reflect that you know the dangers of swarms, then you didnt pay attention during that class. You didnt learn it.

Forgetting that sometimes it seems like the Pathfinder Society is made up of random yahoos I must point out again that bein taught something is knowledge, so is experiencing it for yourself. So when the someone you suggest tells everyone they should take Cold Iron weapons to kill demons, guess what? They should all take a Rank of Knowledge Planes to represent that lesson. If they don't I guess that means they ignored the guys advice or weren't paying attention. Maybe they shouldn't hold these meetings at random Taverns...

Damalon01 wrote:

You could be thinking 'I'm a Pathfinder I've been taught and trained about this stuff.' But have you? Isn't that what the Knowledge skills represent? what you've learned?

Just because you don't have a knowledge skill doesn't mean you can't roll - it just means you can't get a result above 10.

I would think that buying vermin repellent or alchem acid or fire probably falls into that category of easy to know - and presumably some training takes place before one becomes pathfinder.

And knowledge skills are not what you have learned, it is something more abstract - as you might roll right to know powers about a critter in one game, but roll badly and completely forget in the next.

As you said the Knowledge skill DC is limited to 10 unless you have ranks in the skill, only common monsters have a DC less than that as far as identifying them goes and DC 10 is also only 'Really easy questions' as far as general knowledge goes. I would certainly not define the secrets magic or even alchemy as 'really easy knowledge' since these things are far beyond the means of any common person, a peasant cant afford alchemists fire and probably hasnt even seen any in their whole life.

As far as Im concerned that should mean that unless its very simple, ie a sword is better than a club and wearing armour will keep you alive or insect repellent will keep away mosquitoes then you must have the applicable skill to explain why you know about it or be higher level or have run into a situation like it before.

I did notice that the original post for this thread spoke about various tiers and at higher levels, say 7-11, I'd be ok with the characters having made some of these preparations. Id still prefer to see the appropriate skills on the character though.

As far as older Pathfinders giving advice to players goes, Id be ok with that... if the player then took a rank in the Knowledge skill to represent that they actually learned what the older Pathfinder has taught them. Until then they'd know that its important to have silver, or cold iron or adamantine or to carry alchemist's fire but wouldnt know what those things are MOST useful for. And if its not common knowledge and therefore above DC 10 then they may not have any idea at all whats its for, obviously they forgot what that older Pathfinder taught them...

Its no more ridiculous to assume the character doesnt know than it is to assume they do.

As far as the whole knowing something one day and then forgetting it the next goes, well that can happen cant it? I know I've forgotten words and their meanings only to remember later on. However there are also lots of things I simply dont know and others I've learned. I guess the rules are trying to reflect this, if a little clumsily.

Guys I appreciate what you're trying to do here, prepare new players for the challenges of the game but I would like to point out that following this line of reasoning can very easily cross into the bounds of meta gaming.

After all how does your character know he/she needs all this stuff? Do you have the appropriate knowledge skills? Has your character encountered the problem that requires the solution before?

You could be thinking 'I'm a Pathfinder I've been taught and trained about this stuff.' But have you? Isn't that what the Knowledge skills represent? what you've learned?

You might also be thinking 'what about the Pathfinder Society Field Guide?, there's hints in there.' And you'd be right, there are hints. But its not always clear, for example it doesn't clearly say you need cold iron or silver to defeat demons or devils. It simply says to try Dismissal spells or Banishment. Then of course there's this: a player needs to own the Pathfinder Society Field Guide to use any of the info within. It's not part of the Core Assumption, so you cant simply assume your character knows that info.

Personally I think a character must wait until they are more experienced before they start stocking up on this sort of gear, a little bit here and there is fine but buying it all or buying gear your character has no knowledge of is clearly meta-gaming.

Again that's an opinion and probably an over analysis of what he said. I read it more as him being upset that people are willing to focus on the actions of one person who is being sexist when the entire game and genre is loaded with artwork, characters and situations that most reasonable people would find sexist or degrading. Instead of looking at one piece, we should focus on the whole.

Thread distraction? Certainly, but advocating the abuse of women because of Seoni's outfit? Of course not.

He also states that 15+ female characters breaks his view of a fantasy setting. I have different belief about that, but it's still his view and one to which he is entitled to have no matter how much I disagree with it.

This is exactly what I mean. I do apologize for distracting you from the main topic of discussion.

I find it amusing that this post is dedicated to the idea of how unacceptable sexism at the gaming table is yet we still have art that screams of sexism (Look at a Pic of Seoni or Amiri. Obviously drawn to attract the male eye).

I think its a little hypocritical to complain about the sexist behavior of some players while overlooking the sexism inherent in the game itself.

Even more fun, take a look at some of the art out there. Such as Art relating to Pathfinder on Deviant art. Ask yourself these questions: shouldnt a characters stats and Traits be reflected in their appearance along with race and gender? Why is it that almost every female in fantasy is drawn to be attractive, even if their actual stats dont reflect that? How often do you see players with unattractive characters? especially female characters?

While I appreciate Andrei Buters point that females can have a strength of above 15 in Path Finder I do have to point out that theres a little problem with that point of view. Suspension of Disbelief.

Its very important to a story that the audience not break from that story, never stop and think 'hold on... that cant be right'. Something like female characters being just as strong as male ones can break suspension of disbelief, especially if its common, simply because it just doesn't happen all that often in the real world.

Once Suspension of Disbelief is broken it can lead to a whole truck load of problems, such as the PC questioning the events of the story or their trust in you as a GM.

Personally I say know your audience, know what they like and dislike and cater to them. If you find that you have little in common with a player or game, try another group or game.

I think it's important that we not think of topics like this in terms of "good GMs" and "bad GMs". I'd wager most bad experiences are the result of a good GM getting something important wrong. One good GM has a bad habit of metagaming based on knowledge of the PCs' respective armor classes; another good GM is pretty shaky on rules for Topic X; yet another good GM is uncomfortable as a storyteller and reduces scenarios to strings of combat; another good GM tends to underprepare and spends a lot of time looking things up; and still another good GM fails to rein in his distaste for certain builds and guns for them.

I'm going to go out on a limb and posit the following:
There are no bad GMs, just good GMs with flaws and varying degrees of willingness to acknowledge and overcome them.

Here here! a GM who makes mistakes but keeps trying to improve is in fact a good GM or at least will be in time.

Caderyn wrote:

It was fun both when I played it (in Canberra) and when I ran it (in Sydney) its very different than the earlier specials as this one is more competition based unlike the others which are cooperative but all in all its quite fun.

I agree that individual parts of it are fun, I'm not a fan of the overall scenario ... other things I've played by the authors I've enjoyed so I have to imagine that this is not indicative of their writing persay but the nature of the beast that they were given...

Ok ... so moving on lol

agreed, lets move on

Damalon01 wrote:

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:

Damalon01 wrote:

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

Damalon, please add spoilers to your comments about scenarios in future. This isn't the place to post things like that out in the open.

sorry i dont know how to add spoilers yet.

underneith the text box that you type in for every post you make, there is a button that says "show" this will have all the formating tools that work w/in the forums... including how to add spoilers.

found it thank you, just a little obscure

actually not really, but whatever.

Lol one small button at the bottom of the box marked 'show' with a single sentence saying how to format text isnt a little bit obscure? I obviously failed my perception check then while you didnt!

Damalon01 wrote:

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

Damalon, please add spoilers to your comments about scenarios in future. This isn't the place to post things like that out in the open.

sorry i dont know how to add spoilers yet.

underneith the text box that you type in for every post you make, there is a button that says "show" this will have all the formating tools that work w/in the forums... including how to add spoilers.

found it thank you, just a little obscure

You know, I rather enjoyed RftRK... Playing with my NON-combat Bard.

** spoiler omitted **

Both you and your character sound awesome Nosig. My group also talked our way through quite a few of the early parts,

Also I think my Gunslinger wants to meet your bard /wink

Damalon, please add spoilers to your comments about scenarios in future. This isn't the place to post things like that out in the open.

sorry i dont know how to add spoilers yet.

Hi Damian - I was at that high level table, so I can probably tell you how some of it went down for us as well (I'm Tony, I look a bit like my avatar but with less tattoos).

Damalon01 wrote:

Hi, I would like to say I didn't enjoy this module much. Although the first 2/3 of the story were great (well thought and interesting) once I got to the cathedral bit and it got real I gotta say I rapidly grew frustrated and annoyed.

To clarify things somewhat it was a party of 1-3 level characters, it was at Arcanacon in Melbourne Australia and it was only about 7 or 8 hours ago. Here's why:

** spoiler omitted **

Not sure what to say to this one; every game will have bad guys (and good guys) with gear that makes them more powerful. It's all worked into the CR of the encounter, so it can't really be unfair unless you consider the CR unfair.

Quote:

** spoiler omitted **

...

If you didnt know Av im the fat guy in the grey and yellow shirt that went up to collect the Key when the auction was over, the same guy that went to run away when the assassin appeared :p

Damalon01 wrote:

Jiggy thanks for your advice, but seriously man where that link? :P

That would be the bolded, italicized, all-caps, hyperlink-blue "shazam" a few posts up, from about 10 hours ago. ;)

urm im having trouble figuring out how to add a review to those already listed on the page.

Could someone please tell me how to add an review to this module? I cant seem to find that function.

Mark Moreland wrote:

I'm developing Round 2 right now, and not everyone will die. I'm tuning down the evil a little bit because Kyle and Tim combined is worse than anything we've ever published in terms of lethality, and I want at least a few survivors to tell the horrific tale...

Bah!

First off, Night Two is never going to be published.
Second, its only as lethal as the monsters in the Bestiary.
and Third...

PYGON has pleaded to learn the art of TPK, that and he also complained Ruby Phoenix was TOO EASY. Night 2 should be the event, you wish you hadn't won your way into.

The slogan for Night 2 should be:
"Welcome To the PFS Saturday Night Special. We Make Gamers Cry."

Come one heros... chime in. Tell Mark not to work so hard to make things easy on you.
Tell him, you want to be champion. Tell him not to water down they deadly. Tell him you only want one Pathfinder survive round two (which of course will be you, and you alone)

No. I dont want to be a champion by your terms or his. Ill do it by mine.

Care Baird wrote:

C'mon guys! You don't want to play at my table for part 2? :(

Was I not specific enough?...

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;)

I agree. I will not be playing part 2 of this adventure. Even if the rewards for it are actually worth it next time.

Eight days from now I'll be feasting on the tears of nearly 500 dead PCs!

You should be ashamed. I hated this adventure and everyone at my table survived.

Hi Damalon01.

I hope you don't stop playing PFS at cons. There is a lot of fun to be had and cons are a great place to meet gamers with similar ideas of fun play. Arcanacon seemed drastically down on numbers this year and even the PFS seemed down on numbers. It would be great to encourage more players to come along. PFS can be great fun.
IMHO games like Race for the Rune Carved Key don't do a lot to encourage new players. We need to get new players into the game and we need to find fun games for them to play. We can't keep running the same old games, because the older players have played them, so some new games that come out need to have some focus on story and fun, not super-overwhelming mega-combat.
I'm really pleased to hear your voice Damalon01 because if we don't give feedback then we can't expect anything to change. I hope you spoke to the VC on the day and know about the local gaming groups and opportunities to play.

You better believe I spoke to the VC Golario. I spoke to him in person right after the game was concluded and have emailed him since I got home, asking him to forward feedback to me from Paizo if possible. I will email him again in a while if i get no response.

Damalon01 wrote:

Jiggy thanks for your advice, but seriously man where that link? :P

That would be the bolded, italicized, all-caps, hyperlink-blue "shazam" a few posts up, from about 10 hours ago. ;)

AH! missed that, thank you very much

Well Av i didnt find the rewards, ie the xp and such all that worthwhile. The first 2/3 of the adventure was fun but the last third has spoiled the rest for me. My first impressions of these specials has been spoiled, at least for now. Im an experienced role player who has plaed 3.0 and 3.5 dnd extensively so im well aware of the dangers and such of both high level and low level adventuring so i wouldnt say i wasnt prepared and quite frankly i will not and should not have to change my rpg style just for these so called 'specials'.
All in all i would say that the adventure was too frustrating to be rewarding. It wasnt 'challenging', it was frustrating. I dont want to be frustrated, i dont want to be 'challenged' with scenarios that are min maxed in order suit min maxed players. I want to be rewarded for my merits as a seasoned and skilled player, one who doesnt min max characters and does his best to balance team work with the abilities i have selected for my character. In short i play as fairly as i can and expected to treated fairly in return.

Well Golariofun Im glad I wasnt the only one that was dissappointed with the scenario. I spoke to the Regional GM about it all and I have asked him to send the feedback I gave to the apropriate people and also asked him to let me know how it turns out, I dont intend Paizo or the designed who wrote the mod to go on not knowing how i felt.
Jiggy thanks for your advice, but seriously man where that link? :P
AT this stage I do intend to keep playing PFS at cons, like Golariofun i may decide to avoid the big events too. I really hate powergaming, i hate when player and gms get caught up in the viscous cycle. Role playing is not a cold war or an arms race, theres no need for everyone to min max and someone has to stop.

Oh i forgot point 4

I did the Mod Crypt of the Everflame as the Convention if went to before this last one, a few months ago. I recieved

Race for the Runecarved Key rewards are

Draw your own conclusions.

Sorry Jiggy, while your advice was well meant it doesnt help in the that much. I actually knew most of that already. Ive only been playing Pathfinder for the last few months but during that time ive been to two conventions and read as much material as i can find to build my knowledge. You see ive been role playing in different games since I was thirteen, thats 24 years.
ill try to adress what needs addressing in your post, if only for myself.

You said: @Damalon01: Best thing to do is put all that as a review on the scenario's product page. Leadership reads all the reviews and takes them into account, but we can't guarantee they'll see it if it's here instead of there. :)

This is really handy info. I intend to complain as loudly and as long as takes to get noticed, while being respectful and polite. where do i find the link?

You said: baddies have a calculated amount of wealth (and less than a PC, I might add), and those consumables count against it. So the more scrolls and potions he has, the less likely he is to have other nasty gear. It all evens out. And finally, what do you mean when you say you wouldn't tolerate such shenanigans? You mean your BBEGs don't carry scrolls? Or you wouldn't let your PCs use scrolls? A little confused here.

I mean that i wouldnt tolerate anyone power gaming at my table (as in table top homegame). If its the GM i would play until after the session were done and then go to him and complain, if he didnt change his game accordingly i would quit the group. If it were a player I would ask him to stop and if he persisted I would ask him to leave my game.
Next my monsters will carry scrolls and theyll use them if they need them. But they wont throw away a resource immediately, i try to think like some who actually has to consider whether or not hey need to save it for later. Also if im not mistaken monster are supposed to split the resources they recieve across many categories proportionally, some on waepons, some on armour, some on scrolls/potions.

Hi, I would like to say I didn't enjoy this module much. Although the first 2/3 of the story were great (well thought and interesting) once I got to the cathedral bit and it got real I gotta say I rapidly grew frustrated and annoyed.

To clarify things somewhat it was a party of 1-3 level characters, it was at Arcanacon in Melbourne Australia and it was only about 7 or 8 hours ago.

Here's why: