Cyderak's page

Well, the INKARNATE guys are finishing up some tweaks to release the first BETA test soon.

I guess their website will have updates soon too.

Go to INKARNATE WEBSITE

So what the status on INKARNATE?

Just gave $30

You can't beat that deal.

Get a butt-ton of minis for $30.

And the stretch goals kick butt too:

Stretch goal #1

Stretch Goal #2

:)

Evil Lincoln wrote:

So basically, it would would be reproducing the functionality of hero lab-maptool integration in a single package?

Hmm.

It's Hero Lab, MapTools/d20Pro, Dundjinni/Campaign Cartographer, Hero Machine, and Obsidian Portal/Realm Works all in one integrated package.

Personally I think it's too big, and that it's gonna be vaporware. If they come out and prove me wrong, with full integration of the rules the same way that Hero Lab is (and d20Pro can be with some work), along with all the functionality of Dundjinni and Realm Works, then I will be switching over. But that's an extremely tall order, 4 extremely complex programs and a not too simple character illustrator all in one package?

Well.......Alex, the programmer for INKATNATE worked on big Blizzard entertainment projects so that in itself should be a testimonial to his abilities as a programmer.

Its going to take a while longer to develope INKARNATE because the Kikckstarter for INKARNATE was going to pay for bringing more programmers on board to help progress faster.

looking forward to the Beta test.

Hey guys,

4 days left for INKARNATE on their kickstarter.

One last push to get it funded guys!!!

Even if it doesn't get funded you got nothing to lose because all pledges aren't collected until a kickstarter project reaches its funding goal.

If it does reach its goal, INKARNATE becomes a reality.......its a win-win situation.

Heres the link:
INKARNATE Kickstarter page.

****

Found an interview with the INKARNATE guys here:

Escapist Magazine interview of INKARNATE staff

Fills in some of the informational gaps some gamers may have about the software.

:)

Found an interview with the INKARNATE guys here:

INKARNATE Article.

Fills in some of the informational gaps some gamers may have about the software.

The Iron Golem looks GREAT!!!

10 more days to donate to this kickstarter.

Heres the link:

INKARNATE Kickstarter page.

Lets push to get it funded guys.

10 more days to donate to this kickstarter.

Heres the link:

INKARNATE Kickstarter page.

Lets push to get it funded guys.

The reason I don't use Hero Lab for anything except M&M is that it costs huge loads.

I use HeroLab for M&M, Pathfinder, and used to use it for D&D 3.5.

But like I said, If INKARNATE surpasses HeroLab in all the right ways i'm switchin.

I have to say I think you may be aiming at the wrong audience. The people new to RPGs are those least likely to invest in subscription-based services. Those veterans are possibly also less likely to, having the experience and knowledge to handle most of what it offers by hand. There's a middle-ground of people that have delved into the game enough to know how it works and want to buy further tools and supplements for it.

I think that a character generator with a video-game-like user interface is the perfect product to sell people new to Paper & Pencil RPG's.

Most likely they were playing video games before they even thought of playing a Paper and Pencil RPG so that makes the transition that much easier.

Your also forgetting a couple of facts.
--The character generator is a one time purchase. Doesn't cost any extra per month to have.

--The subscription fee for the Virtual Game Space isn't set in stone. Maybe they'll settle on $5 a month or $7 a month instead of the $10 a month for the Virtual Game Space.

--Who's to say that down the road that the subscription service isn't found to be very profitable and that releasing expansion packs makes them more money so they go that route.

As far as gaming veterans not being interested in INKARNATE, i am a 20yr. RPG gamer and everyone else in my group are in their late 30's to mid 40's. We're ready and waiting for INKARNATE to be released.

Now everyone in our group owns a copy of HeroLab and its the best character generator on the market as of right now.

But it could be laid out way better than it is now and aesthetically, its got absolutely nothing on what I have seen so far from INKARNATE.

Now while I am barking the awesomeness of INKARNATE, I will keep my copy of HeroLab until I am sure INKARNATE is the character generator software that HeroLab passes the torch to.

The problem with the subscription fee is that it assumes that only one player per group is going to GM. As far as I know, almost every group rotates GMing duties every now and then.

How do you propose they pay for the servers to stay up and running?

So far, I'm largely worried about how inflexible it looks. I like character generators that give you the freedom to ignore any and all rules if you want to and just let you know that you've done so.

Also, from browsing the site, it doesn't seem like they have given up on the idea of subscription fees. It's still listed as $10 a month for the GM tools.

From what I see so far, I predict this will be one shiny, well-polished failure.

Heres the quote from their kickstarter site as to how the pricing is going to work As Of Right Now:

Players:

Players will pay a one-time fee for the Character Creator/Playable Character Sheet. This fee will cover a single rule set.

GMs:

GMs will pay a one-time fee for each of these components (separately):

•Map Builder

•Adventure Creator/Campaign Tracker.

Then for a sub fee (we are thinking $10/month at present), the GM will receive:

•Access to the Virtual Tabletop (the GM can allow access to players, so the players do not have to pay a sub fee--there would be one fee per gaming group).

•Regular content packs (including digital adventures, artwork, and more)

The subscription is to help support ongoing feature development as well as server costs. We will make it very easy to place a sub on hold or cancel it--so if you are heavy up on gaming one month but have nothing going on the next you can just turn it on and off as required.

What that means is that the pricing model could change later.

Everything is up in the air right now.

And they are looking for feedback as to what players / GM's want.

The guys at Inkarnate posted another video showing the Character creator in action:

Heres a link to the video:

**** INKARNATE Character Creator in action ****

Update video showing the map-maker in action.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1720821324/inkarnate-rpg-toolset/posts/ 299193

The guys over at the InKarnate camp have posted an update Post-GenCon.

Here it is quoted from their Kickstarter site:

UPDATE: After feedback from Gencon we've decided PF(Pathfinder) RPG will be the next rule set we support.
Also, we're going to offer up the Character Creator, Map Builder, Adventure Editor, and Campaign Tracker as components that are purchased for a one-time fee (each sold separately) instead of making it only accessible via subscription.

:)

I saw this project on Kickstarter and after reading all the info and watching the pitch video I am very excited to see the end product.

I also spoke to the Inkarnate guys at GenCon and they said they were probably going to switch from a subscription fee system to another system because of feedback from players who would like to see another revenue model.

Heres the overview:

InKarnate is a video-game-like interface for playing the world's most popular fantasy RPG. This fully-integrated web application frees GMs and players from tedious number-crunching and stat-tracking, so more time is spent weaving epic tales of saving the world and exploring dark, deadly dungeons. InKarnate also helps you visualize your adventures with character portraits, item portraits in an equip screen, custom made maps, and more. With InKarnate, our goal is to make it easier and more fun for you and your friends to sit around a table and role-play. Here are the key features we are currently building for our launch product:

•CREATE AND RUN CHARACTERS--Roll characters in minutes. Pick a portrait, select skills, and equip your PC with illustrated items. Then run your character with the playable character sheet while the rules are calculated under the hood.

•BUILD INTERACTIVE MAPS--Create world, wilderness, city, and dungeon maps. Then link them all together to quickly and easily navigate through your entire campaign.

•LIVE EPIC CAMPAIGNS--Run your games in a shared, virtual space around a physical table or over the internet. Roll dice (or input physical rolls if you prefer), place character tokens, and more.

The $100,000 funding goal will allow us to deliver the features above with a target date of August, 2013. If we can raise additional money, estimated at $200,000, then we will also deliver:

•WRITE GRAND ADVENTURES-Writing and organizing simple encounters or epic dungeon crawls has never been easier. You'll be able to bring in and edit encounters, monsters, treasure, and NPCs, write descriptive text, and link encounter keys digitally to your maps for easy navigation.
•UPGRADED VIRTUAL GAMESPACE-- Put a party together and run your game virtually. Reward treasure, reveal maps slowly as they are explored, tie into the adventure editor to easily scan and run encounters, and much more.
•ADDITIONAL RULE SETS AND CONTENT--This one is self-explanatory. The more funding we receive, the more cool features, new rule sets, and art we can add to make the app even better.

We already have the first of these components--the Character Creator--up and running and so we can share some specifics on its features:

•InKarnate currently supports the 3.5 rule set of the original medieval fantasy role playing game. We hope to add other rule sets in the future.

•As a web app, InKarnate will run on all major browsers and platforms: Safari, Chrome, Firefox, etc., and will work on PCs, Macs, iPads, and Android Tablets. InKarnate has not yet been optimized for smartphones, although this is a feature we are currently working on.

•The Character Creator allows you to roll up heroes from any of the core classes and races in a quick and intuitive manner. Choose a portrait and equip illustrated items as you prepare to slay dragons and dungeon delve.

•With the flexible, Playable Character Sheet, keep track of every bit of information related to your character. Roll initiative, skill checks, damage, etc., while rules are calculated for you. Memorize and access spell information from your spellbook. Buy new items and goods and add them to your inventory.

I highly recommend investing in this Kickstarter.

Heres the site:
InKarnate Kicktarter Page

Heres some links to some screen shots of InKarnate:

Stat Rolling Screen

Choose Race Screen

Choose Class Screen

Choose Feats Screen

Choose Spells Screen

Equip Items Screen

Sample Character Sheet

Works on Several Different Platforms

There is some potential for Battle-Map cartographers to ge some work from the Inkarnate guys because they are going to need Battle-maps for their software.

I talked to the Inkarnate guys at GenCon and they are seriously thinking about NOT going with a subscription system.

Heres the indepth description from their Kickstarter page:

InKarnate is a video-game-like interface for playing the world's most popular fantasy RPG. This fully-integrated web application frees GMs and players from tedious number-crunching and stat-tracking, so more time is spent weaving epic tales of saving the world and exploring dark, deadly dungeons. InKarnate also helps you visualize your adventures with character portraits, item portraits in an equip screen, custom made maps, and more. With InKarnate, our goal is to make it easier and more fun for you and your friends to sit around a table and role-play. Here are the key features we are currently building for our launch product:

• CREATE AND RUN CHARACTERS--Roll characters in minutes. Pick a portrait, select skills, and equip your PC with illustrated items. Then run your character with the playable character sheet while the rules are calculated under the hood.

• BUILD INTERACTIVE MAPS--Create world, wilderness, city, and dungeon maps. Then link them all together to quickly and easily navigate through your entire campaign.

• LIVE EPIC CAMPAIGNS--Run your games in a shared, virtual space around a physical table or over the internet. Roll dice (or input physical rolls if you prefer), place character tokens, and more.
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The $100,000 funding goal will allow us to deliver the features above with a target date of August, 2013. If we can raise additional money, estimated at $200,000, then we will also deliver:
• WRITE GRAND ADVENTURES-Writing and organizing simple encounters or epic dungeon crawls has never been easier. You'll be able to bring in and edit encounters, monsters, treasure, and NPCs, write descriptive text, and link encounter keys digitally to your maps for easy navigation.
• UPGRADED VIRTUAL GAMESPACE-- Put a party together and run your game virtually. Reward treasure, reveal maps slowly as they are explored, tie into the adventure editor to easily scan and run encounters, and much more.
• ADDITIONAL RULE SETS AND CONTENT--This one is self-explanatory. The more funding we receive, the more cool features, new rule sets, and art we can add to make the app even better.
.
.
We already have the first of these components--the Character Creator--up and running and so we can share some specifics on its features:

• InKarnate currently supports the 3.5 rule set of the original medieval fantasy role playing game. We hope to add other rule sets in the future.

• As a web app, InKarnate will run on all major browsers and platforms: Safari, Chrome, Firefox, etc., and will work on PCs, Macs, iPads, and Android Tablets. InKarnate has not yet been optimized for smartphones, although this is a feature we are currently working on.

• The Character Creator allows you to roll up heroes from any of the core classes and races in a quick and intuitive manner. Choose a portrait and equip illustrated items as you prepare to slay dragons and dungeon delve.

• With the flexible, Playable Character Sheet, keep track of every bit of information related to your character. Roll initiative, skill checks, damage, etc., while rules are calculated for you. Memorize and access spell information from your spellbook. Buy new items and goods and add them to your inventory.
.
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From the little bit I got to see at Gencon, it looks phenominal!

I highly recommend investing in this Kickstarter.

This is Friggin awesome!

So........No Pathfinder Battles miniatures preview this week.

Instead we get to watch some dude giving his oral english paper report.

CRUD!!

Paizo isn't a software company. The only reason they'd need to get involved is to license the name Pathfinder or artwork.

There's already an ipad app for map making.

There is a physical solution for the "moving" dungeon, interlocking tiles that you can use erasable markers on.

Other than specifically using Paizo artwork, there is nothing stopping someone from making these products right now.

I understand they aren't a software company.

That is the reason why I said they should hire a software developer to do the leg work and then just check in from time to time to make sure its coming along the way they want it to.

Thanks for the very interesting idea, it got my mind reeling.

I want to like this idea but I am having trouble seeing merit in a larger more detailed product. I think it is because I tend to favor practical product. Cyderak, what would be the purpose of a Masterpiece mini? What would make me want to buy it? A better question would be; what customer base would it be for? Then I can decide if I am part of that customer base.

The purpose of a Masterpeice mini would be for the gamer who wanted to step up the quality of the paint jobs of their minis. I guess they would'nt have to be large. Probably would be great for medium-sized Player Character minis. And make them Visible minis. That way Gamers could just go to their favorite Gaming store and pick up a pre-painted Masterpeice series mini for the game they have that night.

Maybe take a pole from gamers on the Pathfinder forums, giving 4 or 5 concept options to vote on. However the results of the pole place those minis in order would give the Paizo guys an idea of what is in need of by gamer consumers.

The larger Masterpiece minis could be for DM's who just want a better paint job on their pre-painted plastic minis. Not that Pathfinder Battles are'nt good. They are good. But just imagine what WizKids/NECA could do with some extra time taken to paint the minis.

Cyderak wrote:

With the owner of Dundjinni gone awol and assumed fallen off the planet because the inability of anyone able to get ahold of her,

Could you please explain/elaborate? I checked the Dundjinni Website and couldn't find anything to do with that. I really just don't know what's going on -- I don't use Dundjinni but I've heard good things and have never heard of the thing you are talking about.

Quote:

and the over-complicated interface and bloated price of Campaign Cartographer

Campaign Cartographer 3 is $45.00, which is a very reasonable price for design software, let alone one based on the CAD engine.

Yes, if you really want to do battle maps well and not make a lot of your own custom content, you should probably also pick up the Dungeon Designer add-on for $30.00.

But that's still in total $70.00 which isn't awful (and costs way less than Hero Lab and all its Pathfinder add ons added together, which you cited as a good RPG software accessory. You also seem to support an add on based thing for the software you're proposing which would also in total cost as much if not more).

CC3's interface does have a steep learning curve, I'll give you that. But there are also excellent tutorials out there to help.

By all means, maybe there is more of a market out there for battle map design -- although I hear Maptool is great.

But I don't quite understand your complaints about the existing options.

Now, I doubt Paizo has the means to have its own in house software designing group. If they licensed to a company (like ProFantasy or one of the other cartography specialized developers out there) a "GameMastery Battle Map Design" set of software I wouldn't complain, certainly.

Try buying Dundjinni.......I guarentee it is impossible.

I have HeroLab, but I don't buy every add-on so I only spent the initial 40.00. It works great to generate characters on the fly and keep track of initiative. Among other things.

I bought Campaign Cartographer without researching it. I spent the initial $40 for it without knowing that I'd need to buy the Dungeon Designer. It would'nt be so bad, but like you said the learning curve is steep and the interface is clunky.

I'd like to see a piece of map making software that a consumer could literally learn how to use it on the fly or with minimal instructional tutoring.

When I hear ideas like this I worry about spreading Paizo's resources too thin. I don't see the point of having paizo do it when it wouldn't require their internal resources, just them acquiring a lot of new ones (remember, they are a book publisher, not a software developer and the company that is making Pathfinder online is a separate company with a license) I would rather push for a company like d20pro, Lone Wolf Labs,Posterazer, or another up and coming software company or developer to make this.

Anyone know of any existing, available tools that work well?

They could just commission a software company to make the Battle-Map Creation software and then just check in from time to time to oversee quality.

Dundjinni is excellent. I still use it quite a bit. I find it particuarly useful for my pbp (recent maps of a burning building in Sandpoint).

The software is very user friendly. The art selection isn't bad especially if you add some of the map packs. I've had the software for a number of years and have now purchased all of the available art which is pretty reasonably priced and picked up most of the free user art sets available.

Dundjinni is a great software. But you can't buy it anymore because the owner of the intellectual property has gone AWOL.

With Paizo's resources, the possibilities are endless.

Would this cut into flip mat sales though?

Not really.

Their flip mats could be made available in PDF form and cropped out for use with the map making software as tiles for making different maps with that same art. And some of the items placed in the maps could be offered in a expansion "Items" Pack.

So many opportunities.

Did Paizo ever consider developing a Battle Map Creating software?

I have Hero Lab and it is Spec-Freakin-Tacular thus proving that an RPG software accesory like Hero-lab makes cash all day long.

I see the quality of product you guys put out with Pathfinder and all its secondart accessories, just imagine what Paizo could do with a battle map creation software.

With the owner of Dundjinni gone awol and assumed fallen off the planet because the inability of anyone able to get ahold of her, and the over-complicated interface and bloated price of Campaign Cartographer this is a great opportunity to put out a simple to use, eye catching battle map creation software.

You could sell the base software and to keep making money on the software Paizo could sell Add-On packs. Item Packs, creature packs, building packs, texture packs.........the list goes on and on.

Thanks for reading guys.

Later.

Carl.

I was browsing through other miniatures sites and noticed that some miniatures companies sell a regular line of mini's and a "Masterpiece" series.
These Masterpiece series are usually bigger in scale and more detailed.

I think Paizo could do the same with their pre-painted line.

The original pathfinder Battles could stay in production for the Pathfinder players who need mass minis for DM'ing an adventure.

And the "MASTERPIECE" series of Pathfinder Battles could just be "Large" sized minis to retain detail in sculpts.

And then also could have more intricate paint jobs to deserve the MATERPIECE title.

The price would be more expensive obviously but well worth the price.

Initially, Paizo could release only a 5 or 10 "MASTERPIECE" set to see how well it sells.

Holy Crud!!!

This set gets better and better with every preview.

I'm starting a Second Darkness campaign and would love to use the official Paizo maps with D20Pro on my Computer Game Table pictured here:

http://cyderak.deviantart.com/art/Completed-Game-Table-217046815

Cyderak wrote:

I just keep the garbage basket nearby so I can chuck the little bags that the minis come wrapped in into the crap-can right away so there is no clean up afterwards.

Historically, Wizkids has only done bags for flying figures that come in 2 pieces, usually they have a plastic "box" on the inside that the base of the mini fits into to prevent damage during shipping.

I suppose it would make sense to not package them in bags if their individually packed.

Packaging definitly catches the eye.

I just keep the garbage basket nearby so I can chuck the little bags that the minis come wrapped in into the crap-can right away so there is no clean up afterwards.

Paizo is nor a software company. In order to be a software company you need a number of things:

1 - project manager;
2 - employee programmers;
3 - development machines and platforms, including client server version control (e.g., Perforce);
4 - QA testing facilities;
5 - Online portal capable of license management and enforcement.

To the best of my knowledge:

1- Paizo does not currently employ anybody with experience in application creation project management;
2- Paizo has a few coders under salary, but their role is focused on supporting in-house IT for the webstore, this website, and to a lesser extent, Paizo's internal network and .pdf lines -- they are not stand-alone application developers. That's a huge issue for Paizo, as they don't really even have the room to add significantly more staff in their current digs (as I understand it);
3- Paizo is a Mac house and does not have a PC based development network and has no network capable of supporting Perforce version control. It's all well and good to be a "Mac only" house when you are an end user in the publishing business. When you actually try to make money selling Macintosh based software instead of PC? Pretty small club (good luck with all that);
4 - Paizo does not have any Beta/RC/QA testing facilities or staff at all; and
5- Paizo has a large presence with an online portal for sale, but it is not designed in any way for license management and enforcement. It would require significant and expensive changes to add that capability - and none of the software for it is Mac based.

All of this suggests that unless there is a kick-ass product idea that Paizo is pretty much certain that it will sell to virtually all of its Adventure Path core subscribers for more than $30/yr on an ongoing basis, they are virtually certain to lose money on any such project in the short to medium term.

I don't foresee any project that Paizo is likely to release to be able to make a substantial enough profit to...

Paizo farmed out the production of Pathfinder Battles to WizKids....

Whats to say they couldn't do the same with a Battlemap making program?

They could farm it out to such companies as:
**Lone Wolf Developement.......guys who did Hero Lab.
**Fluid entertainment........the guys who originally did Dundjinni.
**Besides all the other small software developement companies out there that take on jobs from companies who either don't have the expertise to do it themselves or just don't want to do it themselves.

I have my doubts about the viability of such a product. 1) Paizo should have plenty of backgrounds, icons, etc. from the maps they publish, although it would need an interface; 2) Paizo has subscription income from the maps they sell and mapping software would likely cut into those sales and 3) the recent decision to release PDFS along with the map subscriptions means you can probably do much of what you are talking about at home.

Good points......But the Dungeon Decor-type symbols from those Battlemap subscriptions could be included with the battlemap subscription for this Battlemap software.

Basically details that their marketing dept. could iron out.

Hey guys and Gals at Paizo,

I have a SPECTACULAR business proposition for you.

Ready for it......

It'll be the best thing since "Self Rolling Dice"

ITS.........The DUNDJINNI REPLCEMENT PROGRAM.

I can see it now......Create your own Battlemaps on the Paizo branded Battlemap creator.

Could sell it in 2 different versions.

**Paizo Battlemap creator Basic.
------------ OR -------------------
**Paizo Battlemap creator PRO.

Simplify the user interface so someone could belt out a battlemap in no time.

Have Battlemap Templates where DM's could start out with a blank building or dungeon with a themed template......
--Temple
--Dungeon
--INN
--castle
--etc.........

Put a really nice user interface skin on it with paizo art or advertisements for new Paizo products to come out soon with every update to the software.

The opportunities are endless!!!!

So what do you say guys???

It's also worth pointing out that for this first set, WizKids kind of made the list of what they wanted, and we did our best to find images that worked for those choices based on art we already had.

For Rise of the Runelords, we actually chose all of the miniatures, and even commissioned a bunch of new art specifically with miniatures in mind. I think it's fair to expect slightly more action-oriented poses in future sets, though there really are quite a lot of them in this set as well.

I think my favorite PATHFINDER artist(besides Wayne Reynolds) is an artist from the deviantart.com community with the username El Grimlock.

Heres a link to his stuff:

http://el-grimlock.deviantart.com/gallery/

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If they made a mini for this Frost Giant I'd buy it in a heartbeat:

http://el-grimlock.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=48#/d325zmm

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This dwarf too:

http://el-grimlock.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d3e2iep

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He just has a phenominal style of art.

If I'm paying $4-6 for a single miniature I'll go with a company like Reaper. Those are prices I'd expect to pay for metal miniatures, not prepainted plastics. In fact, you are better off getting the metal pathfinder miniatures from Reaper.

True...........but you'd still have to paint them.

As a married, father of three besides working full time and yard work and family stuff and....well, you get the point....Its hard to paint anything anymore.

So i'll gladly fork over the little extra.

Wizkids offered their Huge Apocalypse and sentinel figs in their Huge Marvel Heroclix boosters and because their was such a demand for them they released them separatly.

Whats to say they don't do the same for the Huge Black Dragon.

DM Doom......I know you think it seems expensive paying $4 to $6 for the randomized miniatures but you gotta admit, its better than being forced to pay $15 - $20 for 6 to 8 figures like the D&D minis were offered for.

D&D minis never gave you the choice to buy just 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 minis at a crack.

Because their boosters were packaged in 6 to 8 figures per booster you had to pay the $15 - $20 in order to get them.

Thanks KOR.....Looks almost identical to ddmspoilers.com.

I miss that site.

KOR for president........Could'nt do any worse than the goon we have now.

Caineach wrote:

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

I suspect this will be a long an profitable line, as long as there are not too many figures that manage to slip through the quality control process, such as the Lizardfolk Champion:

http://www.d20.ca/images/lizdonk.jpg

You know, I love the face on the lizardman. You are the only one I have heard to complain about it.

That is because some of us are biting our tongues.

Again, any and all pics of the minis are just preliminary minaiture mock-ups.

The final product will be different.

The Paizo guys are just giving us a vague idea of what we can look forward to.

Cyderak wrote:

The painted version of the orcs will be interesting to see.

Those hussies!

Hey, Orcs take it, where they can get it.

Exhibit A: half-orcs.

I rest my case.

Thats all she wrote.

The Fat lady has sung. And blah dee blah dee.

Is it next friday yet?

The painted version of the orcs will be interesting to see.

ZDPhoenix wrote:

However, as someone who buys almost everything Paizo makes; from my subscriptions, or monthly shipments from Paizo.com (instead of Amazon, which is always cheaper), I think I'm allowed to not like the idea of overpricing something.

First, thanks for your support of the company we all love.

As to overpricing, Paizo isn't doing that. The price that Paizo is charging for these figures is right in the ballpark of what other retailers are selling them for. The price of these figures is going to be based on what price WizKids sells them to distributors for.

I'll grant you that they're expensive, but they appear to be high quality. WotC's D&D Minis did get more expensive (and quality suffered) towards the end of the line, and I really have no idea how the new minis that WotC produces will compare in price or quality. I also have no idea what the pricing on the Pathfinder Battles Encounter Packs is going to look like.

I hear a lot of people getting upset that they won't be able to afford to buy a case to get a Huge Black Dragon. I've got thousands of D&D minis, but (as it turns out) I don't have a Huge Black Dragon (Gargantuan yes, Huge no). I've gotten great use out those minis, and had a lot of fun over the years with them, and I've never noticed that I needed to get a Huge Black Dragon until one was announced from WizKids.

My advice is to buy what you can afford, and have fun. If you're able to pick up figures that you want or need at a reasonable price in the aftermarket, then by all means do so. If, at the end of the day, there's a figure or two that you want that you don't have (and can't afford to get), it's no big deal.

There are plenty of DnD minis from earlier sets that I don't have, but I still use the figures I do have from Harbinger and Dragoneye in my games every week, and I'm happy to have what I have.

If the minis you have enhance your game and add fun to the table, terrific. Just don't get so caught up in being angry about the figures, or...

also never let them catch you playing with your minis like G.I. Joes.

At first theres an awkward silence......and then a sigh of dis-approval.....
And then my wife smiles really big......because I just handed over the credit card.
So it all works out in the end, with me working a butt-ton of overtime to cover her shopping sprees. :)

Jeremiziah wrote:

I want your day job. Or whatever it is that allows you to have that level of expendable income.

The "no mate, no kids" thing seems to be all the rage. That opens up copious amounts of disposable income.

Add to that "non-smoker", and you suddenly have another big wad of cash burning holes in your wallet (as opposed to stinking cancer sticks burning holes in your furniture and lungs).

Not having a thing for Starbucks Wireless, oh, wait, sorry, *Coffee* or regular benders in expensive clubs or stuff like that is another thing.

Add those all together with a half-decent job, and you'll find yourself in dire need of more than just two cases of this to prevent your money to be wasted on crap like retirement provision or emergency stashes.

;-P

I don't have the usual vices like boozing and smokes but I am married with 3 kids and a house.......Thank god my wife is gracious to let me feed my habit.

Have to agree that Random is a bad thing here. Shop owners would be better off opening them all up and selling them that way. 4 bucks ain't bad at all considering the quality, but I want to know I'm not going have to drop 400 bucks to get that one troll I need to run that adventure.

Once again.....without mini randomization this venture would'nt be possible.

Its the only way its financially feesable to release a line of minis and sell each mini equally.

Instead of having non-randomized minis and a warehouse full of the lesser desirable minis.

Again, they are going to release some non-randomized minis for the adventure paths next year.

Love the Goblins......

Look like gremlins on speed!!!

gbonehead wrote:

ZDPhoenix wrote:

"Standard Boosters contain 1 Medium or 2 Small miniatures."

Wow. I had to read through the discussion to make sure that wasn't a typo.

I love you guys and I really wanted this idea to go well, from when I heard about it on a podcast.

But seriously? $2-4 (not counting shipping, which makes it $3.5-4.5) for 2 plastic figures tops?

No thanks.

Past Wizkids products had more value (and figures) for the buck (and those were slightly larger, with moving parts).

I'll just use old Mage Knight figures off eBay.

Ah, this old chestnut.

There's a whole angry thread about that very topic, by the way. Heck, maybe it was this very thread, I don't feel like searching for it.

All I can tell ya is that the topic has been beat to death, raised, tarred and feathered, incinerated in a wicker man and then true rezzed in order to beat it some more :)

Sadists... Hmmm.

Interesting how you claim it's been beaten to death, yet here you are, still beating, but in the other direction.

Perhaps you think that I'm not allowed my opinion, or maybe that somehow telling me will stop the rest of the gaming public write 34 pages of being offended.

However, as someone who buys almost everything Paizo makes; from my subscriptions, or monthly shipments from Paizo.com (instead of Amazon, which is always cheaper), I think I'm allowed to not like the idea of overpricing something.

Take a look at the price of oil the next time you look in the paper.

The reason I say that is that oil is the base material for plastic and paint. Both of which go into the manufacturing or pre-painted plastic miniatures.

Notice how the price of oil goes up and down (mostly up)at the whim of some foreign oil tycoon turd with a turbin.

$3.50 to $4.50 for 1 or 2 pre-painted plastic RPG miniatures is a VERY good deal in my book considering you have the choice to buy a booster with 1 - 2 minis in it or buy more if you wanted more miniatures. With D&D minis you were forced to buy 6 - 8 minis in a booster.

Lookin forward to tomorrow's preview.

:)

Erik Mona wrote:

My original post on the Colossal issue says we do not _currently_ have plans to do Colossal minis. As someone else pointed out, the Colossal minis in the Rise of the Runelords AP are a giant bird and a big chain, so those seemed like pretty pointless choices.

We're currently working on Gargantuan minis. If the right opportunity comes by for a Colossal mini we think lots of people would be interested in adding to their collection, I'm sure we'll consider it.

But for now, we're still working on our very first big set, so give us time, please!

Tarrasque! Who wouldn't want to plop the Tarrasque down in front of their players? :p

How often is a creature like that used? Aside from the fact its nearly unbeatable. Thats for one of those sessions when you've had enough from the players and your ready for a Total Party Kill. hehehehe.

Jeff Cope wrote:

Cyderak wrote:

So, like I said, I would'nt be surprised if Paizo farmed out the work that Wizkids cannot do to other companies all the while keeping the business that WizKids can do, with Wizkids.

The only problem with that theory is that Wizkids can handle miniatures on that scale, and have in the past with Heroclix. They've done Fin Fang Foom, Galactus and the Spectre which would all be in the Colossal scale.

You're forgetting the most important Colossal WizKids mini of all...

Hehehehe.....

I got a buddy who picked up the Cthulu figure.

Would have worked great back in the day for an adventure we did in Call of Cthulu.....Of course we would have all gone insane instantly.

Notone of my favorite game systems.