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Cult of Vorg's page

694 posts. Alias of Christopher Vrysen.


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TK blasts are hitting people with objects wrapped in your mind stuff. It doesn't specify a minimum size, though, so some allow any speck of dust to be the object, or maximum size, although I'd houserules limited to your basic TK weight... It also doesn't say if your mind stuff is visible or not.

KB for TK doesn't make the purely cosmetic shape that the other energies do, just lets you wield it like melee instead of the normal blast. So, you could ask GM if your mindstuff can be visible and 'saber shaped, concealing that you're just smacking them with a rolled up newspaper or granola crumbles. Or use any sword or weapon that you wield as your blast, not as whatever it is.

For a light saber look naturally, air-electric, or maybe a 3p light element, could work better.

Doesn't EA gives up up all the utility wild talents, including even the Basic? Doesn't seem very Jedi like.


If you're looking for more inspiration for this fun and classic trope, off the top of my head in addition to the most excellent Fafhrd & Grey Mouser books by Fritz Lieber, you could check out the Riyria books by Michael J Sullivan, the Poison Elves graphic novels by Drew Hayes, the Locke Lamora books by Scott Lynch, or the Egil & Nix books by Paul S Kemp.


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Isn't pirahna strike only for light weapons, not usable on any finessable 1H+?


Just a Mort wrote:

...

For serious condition removal, prepared casters are best. Spontaneous casters - human FCB or no, you wouldn't want to waste it on removal spells. ...

In my experience, when you need a removal spell you need it for multiple castings and at a good CL, and need it time sensitively, so they're great for a spont caster, especially a battle oracle that doesn't need to cast much in combat and can save their spells known for utilities outside of the couple of favorite buffs you'll have time or quickens to cast. As a prepared, you either don't have enough iterations memorized, or the afflicted have to wait too long for help.


That's a pretty terrible stats/class/race combo for combat, especially if you're starting at 1st. It'll be at least 3 levels before they have any damage bonus at all. Also, complicated to play, two pools of abilities with a variety of fiddly bits to manage.. Unless the rest of the party is similarly anti-optimized, why would you do that to a new player?

Sure you can't change it to un-rogue or swashbuckler? they're not particularly strong but they'd be better than this.. Or shave a point from Cha for str..

Maybe some sort of aid another build? Although those tend to need lots of feats or halfling access..


With the effortless lace + Slashing grace you should be well on your way to non-negligible combat damage.. Pick up the quick study and mutagen talents and you'll be groovy.. I would be scared of being dependent on a specific weapon though, just a sunder or disarm or dispel away from being sidelined..


Kensai magus could work well, especially if you're OK with using a rapier with Fencing Grace, and flavor the class spellbook as some sort of martial arts journal.. It'll take some time before your dex is high enough to make up for the lack of armor, but eventually the AC will be golden.. Haramaki armor is just basically a silk sash so probably good for you too.. I'd advise your first feats to be finesse, Fencing grace, weapon versatility, and possibly weapon trick..


Yeah, having the paladin player on board changes things. Talk to them and GM about acceptable behavior and subterfuges. #1 being he not ping you unnecessarily. If pally is iomedaen too, see if you can be set up above him in the hierarchy, and/or even pull off a ploy of having special dispensation to use undead in the service of good.

An option for the holy symbol is to pay for an intricate iomedae symbol with lots extra artwork around it, and incorporate the asmodious symbol in the extras.


I assumed you weren't going to be actually evil, just wanting to be.

If actually evil, not starting at 1st means the ring is possible.. But as most posts on that thread said, if playing evil with a paladin in the group, #1 make sure the player is ok with it, #2 best route is to use the work together against a greater evil argument (or ordered by superiors to work with you as long as you don't cross the line) instead of trying to hide your alignment..


So what sort of attack is the touch attack then? Doesn't have iteratives, so it's not just a normal attack. That means it's either a natural attack that they can FA with, or a special action that they can't. I've never been able to sort out which, so when I've GM'd, depending on the group I've gone all ways, from giving them iterative attacks with higher bab, to allowing Feral combat training plus Monk levels to make an extra scary version, or just restricting the attack to 1/round, regardless of buffs..


It's a dick move on the part of whichever of you announced your character concept 2nd, unless you're both OK with it..

Clerics of an evil god ping on detect evil at 1st level, and undead at 2hd, so outside of ring(s) of mind shielding given to you well above WBL, so no defense against the paladin pinging any prospective companion against this exact threat to his holiness.

So, if the campaign is based on an overwhelmingly evil threat, instead of trying to hide it, you could sell him on needing your help to work against the greater evil. Or have you teamed up by superiors as an intra-faith taskforce, like abadar and asmodeus cults in a city trying to increase cooperation.. At that point, hiding how evil you are is being polite to avoid offending him, instead of attempting to corrupt him. A lot depends on what faith and style of clergy the two of you are..


Depends on if that is a standard action supernatural ability (so no full attack actions), or a natural attack (since per greater shadow it doesn't get iteratives at bab+6 it's not a normal attack) that they can full attack with to trigger the extra attack from BoF or Haste...


I was talking about alternate Tiefling racial abilities. (Scroll down, they're just before the alternate Tiefling types.)
The ARG also has a feat that you can take twice to get the See In Darkness ability, where instead of Darkvision X', you just ignore all natural or supernatural darkness. I think soul seer and those go together thematically for a dark-tainted eyes thing.

The preservationist adds the summon natures ally spells as extracts, fluffed as having samples of those creatures in bottles (although you don't actually need specific samples to cast them), so I was talking about running with that collecting samples fluff for RP. Creatures you can't summon you could rant and rail about how you missed the soul.


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Preservationist alchemist, into master chemyst..
Mutate would give you the don't piss off the little guy thing, he could constantly be bottling samples from creatures' brains, chortling about trapping their souls as he does so since he figured out where it lives..
If you don't like bombs you can go vivisector, but why since that won't advance with MC and doesn't use your alternate FCB to improve bomb damage and doesn't make things explode.
Daemon-spawn for finesse / Slashing grace with a dagger or agile AoMF with Feral mutagen, or Oni-spawn for str with a longspear and combat reflexes (and/or Feral).. Soul seer alternate would help with a soul obsession, and is thematic with the eyes if you go for the see in darkness feats.. Pass for Human if GM will allow it to work for his gnomish heritage instead, if not that then maw and fiendish sprinter are cool too..
Tumor familiar raven (or improved to imp if GM allows) would give you the devil on your shoulder..
Infusion and bomb discoveries like dispelling and stinking should give most of your party's caster needs.


That page is missing the second half of the chapter, with the AWT feat and the weapon master love.


The rogue sneaks around having challenging beastie encounters, while the wizard charm persons the giants into letting the captives go and using the rod on the spire? Sounds like an Angel Summoner & BMX Bandit episode to me.. Hope your caster enjoys going with the story flow instead of plot derailing..


Good point, I'm converted.


I disagree. Sacred weapon says it sets the base damage to the new value, and improves with actual size increases (per the expanded table), so I'd think a virtual size increase should work as well..


Cult of Vorg wrote:

Unchained rogue 3 could let you dex to damage with a finesse shield. It's not on your allowed books, but often that's the only thing allowed from unchained..

It's tough to beat weapon master fighter 3 for weapon training plus the gloves, same damage as brawler fighter but more attack.. With the saved levels you could fit in the un-rogue, more brawler levels, or a dip into cleric for growth domain enlarging.

If allowed, you could have a finesse shield build with rogue(unchained)4, fighter(weapon master)3, brawler6, and possibly fit in weapon trick shield and a way to improve your feint actions like the moonlight stalker line, two weapon feint (if the brawler flurry counts as twf for feat prereqs too), or even feinting-flurry... The feinting stuff obviously may be too situational to want to deal with, that's probably more mesmerist-bait than your style..


If you read Slashing weapon as a weapon that deals slashing damage, Weapon Versatility could work to give you close weapon options..


Char-Gen addict wrote:

The weapon master weapon training only nets +1/+1 while the brawler nets +3/+1. So 7 levels Brawler archetype get me +6 damage +2 to hit while 7 levels weaponmaster + gloves get me +4/+4. Same levels invested but one more feat on the weapon master side.

And the brawler's bonus is added to all weapons in the close group including unarmed strikes while the weaponmaster only gets it for one weapon.

Only one weapon, but I thought you were shield flurrying. Your math seems off, unless i'm missing something.. brawler 7 close combatant is +2 hit +4 damage, wm 3 training plus gloves gives +3/+3 and saves levels you can put elsewhere.. Unless your GM allows gloves with close combatant, in which case that's a free +2 damage


Unchained rogue 3 could let you dex to damage with a finesse shield. It's not on your allowed books, but often that's the only thing allowed from unchained..

It's tough to beat weapon master fighter 3 for weapon training plus the gloves, same damage as brawler fighter but more attack.. With the saved levels you could fit in the un-rogue, more brawler levels, or a dip into cleric for growth domain enlarging.


The WT FAQ does not say that.

that FAQ:
Archetype: If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (or one that works similarly to the replaced ability), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that improve the original ability?
It depends on how the archetype's ability is worded. If the archetype ability says it works like the standard ability, it counts as that ability. If the archetype's ability requires you to make a specific choice for the standard ability, it counts as that ability. Otherwise, the archetype ability doesn't count as the standard ability. (It doesn't matter if the archetype's ability name is different than the standard class ability it is replacing; it is the description and game mechanics of the archetype ability that matter.)
Example: The dragoon (fighter) archetype (Ultimate Combat) has an ability called "spear training," which requires the dragoon to select "spears" as his weapon training group, and refers to his weapon training bonus (even though this bonus follows a slightly different progression than standard weapon training). Therefore, this ability counts as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training, such as gloves of dueling (Advanced Player's Guide), which increase the wearer's weapon training bonus.
Example: The archer (fighter) archetype gets several abilities (such as "expert archer") which replace weapon training and do not otherwise refer to the weapon training ability. Therefore, this ability does not count as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training (such as gloves of dueling). This is the case even for the "expert archer," ability which has a bonus that improves every 4 fighter levels, exactly like weapon training.
posted July 2013 | back to top

Close Combatant does not refer to weapon training like the dragoon or 2hander, so no go for the GoD..

According to your FAQ link, bashing and spiked do not stack with each other, since they're both effective size changes.


I'd like more options for the existing elements, rather than new ones.
Options to get appropriate SLAs would be cool (possibly from the wiz elemental school lists).
Alternate basics and powers to allow further specializations (air->more electric, earth->more metal) or branch into other directions (wood->beasts/hearts, tele->sonics, fire->light) would give more choices at each level and more use to the extra talent feat..


It could be a map of the city with defenses noted, leading to them scouting the area for a possible invading army?

They may not be able to recognize the map, promoting a trip to a sage for advice. Perhaps finding from them its actually an arcane diagram instead for a dangerous ritual that needs interruption..

It could be a dungeon map with notations on hazards and ways to bypass them, giving them some safe areas and others that are still mysteries.. Plus dungeon crawl competition from the bbeg's teams..

Maybe the half map is useless, but they could cover and lug the mirror to a sage (wizard's old teacher?) to get the last reflection recreated.. Possibly chase sequence as the bbeg's sends minions to recover the map or the mirror..

They could find loot in one of the goblins that's recognized as being from one of their hometowns, so go see if it's been looted or who's a conspirator there..


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I would guess that the OP means unarmored or non-casting inspirations are often a product of a world where those things are the norm, or in a conversion sense they'd be non-optimal characters being cool against low CR encounters..
So, when converting them to PF, instead of focusing on that part, emphasize other parts of their inspiration and don't worry about the armor or spells they use to stay viable..

That said, if those are the parts that are inspiring, I say go ahead and either jump through optimization hoops, or work with the GM so your underpowered character still feels cool.


Passengers don't have the action restriction on a d-door, just the caster.

However, it's not their action, even if they delayed to wait for your turn (which would leave their action for after yours). So, regardless they wouldn't be able to full-attack with the d-dervish.

So the question would be if they bamph in and out with you as you make attacks, in which case you could drop them off anywhere along the line or they could use a readied attack. Otherwise they'd just arrive at the end of your d-door (edit: or first stop). I think the latter is simpler, especially as otherwise your actions/hands could be restricted by how they're remaining in contact with you.

I'd expect GM interpretations to vary, even if somebody here can parse a RAW.


You could be a shield basher, weapon focus to shield, bashing or frequently enlarge person for upsized sacred damage. No early Shield Master is a shame though, and MAD for str/dex/wis/con..

Archery works with warpriest pretty well too, although no Clustered Shots hurts. Less str needed, but the more the better, so only slightly less mad..

You could take weapon finesse and slashing grace as a human warpriest, on a lower point buy might be worth it to cut out str.. Being stuck going one-handed is going to significantly hurt your damage though..

In general, can't go wrong with human for a race, especially with no alternate racial options available.


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Vorg, TN, the Cult of Idealistic Nihilism, the Laughter in the Void..

Portfolios: introspection, secular altruism, armchair philosophizing, lost and broken souls..

Domains: knowledge(thought), madness, void, charm(love), repose..

Ethos: On a long enough timescale, everything is equally insignificant, be it gods, kings, peasants, insects or whatever. Therefore nothing is more (or less) important than living your life. Only one shot at it, so figure out what's worth dying for and live for it. (The Cult recommends love, learning, and/or understanding.)

Garb: black tattered cloaks and longcoats over wintery colors.


A half-orc fate's-favored Warpriest of Sekhet could do this pretty well. Could take the human fcb for more bonus feats too..

Start with racial alt whip and class scorpion whip profs, and the sacred tattoos, wpnfoc and wpnversatility at 1, twf and whipmastery at 3, impwhipmaster at 5, then you can pick up martialfocus and wpn spec and combat reflexes and the TWF line and anything else fun after that. Divine favor and fcb should more than make up for delayed feats, and you get darkvision and better saves and fervored spells, etc...

Edit: forgot to fit weapon finesse in there, so probably would have to delay or forget versatility..


Bard 7 (for the move action courage) / DD 5+ is good, and you could dump int again for dex if you like. If you have 13+ dex and 14+ str, I'd say reach and combat reflexes is better than power attack.


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All you need is the coat, the ciggys, and a bad attitude, with a whiff of magic and a whole lot of cons and manipulations.. Just trick out your bluff and diplomacy, anything else is gravy..

Like most superhero books his nature can change dramatically depending on who's writing him.. I could see him as an oracle, sorcerer, mesmerist, or arcane trickster, depending on the authors.. +1 to Occultist, though, that's the easiest fit...


+1 to arcane duelist..

You could also go alchemist, half-elf with ancestral arms for a sword proficiency of your choice (I believe there's a strong aldori sword campaign trait too).


Sounds like a fun challenge, I'd be personally disappointed in any player that gives up instead of rising to it..

In addition to out fireloving or concealmenting the goblins, or finding darkvision consumables, research/scouting to determine limits and alternatives to the darkness, opening a dialogue with the gobs to negotiate safe passage and info on other areas of the dungeon, finding out if they have a deal to allow anything else through their area and disguising as that, disguise self's as goblins and bluff through it, tower shields and full defense to just turtle through the area...


You can do it with a rapier.. Inspired Blade Swashbuckler 1 for dex damage and parry riposte, Weapon Master Fighter 4 for feats and weapon training/spec, some Maneuver Master Monk for Wis AC and dirty tricks or your other favorite maneuver, then possibly Duelist for more AC/parry and some damage, and/or pick up crane style. If not duelist, maybe urban barbarian for dex rage and better-late-than-never beast/superstition power lines. Of course it's MAD, needing dex>wis/int/con, so it's only really impressive with higher than normal attributes..

There's also the aldori sword lord prestige and archetype.

Sword saint samurai never impressed me, but if you hate the mount but like the rest of the Sam then at least you get something for it.. Would still need a swash dip to finesse a katana, since you can't do daring champion cavalier and samurai....


I interpreted Counselor as a people's advocate lobbyist liason, so definitely works for your goals. You will be expanding more and more, and the governing doesn't take so much time, so why not just spend some of your downtime travelling to and working up that Inn in preparation for when the kingdom eventually expands over it. You could also argue it as developing relationships with as yet unaligned natives to smooth the way for future expansion, make sure they know they'll have a voice in and know the benefits of joining the growing kingdom.


1) Non-Combat ship challenges. Weathering storms, figuring out how to make repairs to storm damage or other mechanical failures, an invitation to mutiny, cook falls dangerously ill (deliberate or natual, poison or disease, how to handle, who will cook), discovering a stowaway, another ship in distress.. Some of these can obviously become combat encounters..


Sohei and MoMS both alter bonus feats; Inspired and Mouser both replace bleeding wound. No go on either combo.

If you want a rapier master, multiclassing Inspired Blade 1, weapon master fighter 3, then either warpriest (choose its WFoc on your ranged weapon so it gets Sacred damage too) or investigator for the rest?

If you want to be in your dinner's space Mouser 1 then into the biting stuff would work too... If there's not enough str for PA, the biter could give up on 1.5dex on AoOs and use an agile AoMF, so go mouser 1 (bites are light b/p/s so its WFin should work), ranger or slayer 2 for PA, Monk (un? or sohei?) or brawler (mutagenic) 2 for flurry and snake feats, possibly weapon master fighter for weapon trainin and more feats, then magus (esoteric?) the rest to enchant the bite and give some spells, or stay Monk/brawler to improve the flurry..


I'd consider dropping int and cha by 1 to get con to 14 after racials (and put the extra point in wis or str). That's just me though.

+1 to the blockbuster wizard guide.

Scribe Scroll is your friend, have scrolls of any spell that's not DC dependent that you don't usually memorize and wouldn't want to wait a day to cast.

If you're OK with using consumables (I'm just too much of a hoarder), improved familiar with your ranks in UMD is amazing action economy. I like air mephits that can perma-blur you and eventually another.

If you're having trouble deciding what to memorize in a slot, consider keeping it open (especially with the fast study discovery) to fill it when needed later.


Make them a psychic, or psychic caster of some sort. Only needs emotions and/or logic, no finger wiggling or speaking or cost-less components required.


1) serious death threats.. I'd rather make a new character, including detailed backstory and campaign connections, than have one spoiled by coddling..
2) depends on the quality of the rule interpreting or improv/houserule skills, and how forwarned I am if it's extreme in either direction..
3) both, immersion is best, but comedy is necessary for that too..
4) disrespected GM is bad for any game, hurts his motivation and everybody's immersion/interest.. So, fear is better than that.. Better than both by far is being trusted and respected..


Tough to beat a swashtigator for dexy combat and utility.

You could also go fire bomber alchemist into master chemyst, but that would rely on the Agile AoMF.

Piranha goblin if you don't mind just being combat monster plus some skills. Un-rogue 3-4 for the 1.5xdex and 3-1 power attack bite, then mutagenic mauler brawler (or something else with flurry) and Feral Combat Training to flurry the bites (even if it's just a dip that'll give you iteratives eventually), snake fang and combat reflexes with brawling armor and a shield for reactive bites. Maybe some magus too for some arcane pool on the biting. Eat everything. (Yeah, that sounds good, unrogue4, monk2 or brawler2, magus the rest for eventual spell pouncing.)

Less complex but more bizarre for a goblin is the Un-rogue 3-4 with an elven branched spear for reach plus dexy damage, possibly into aberrant bloodrager from there to increase the reach.


You could put ranks in craft- improvised weapons, take catch off guard, eventually add quick draw, improvised weapon mastery, and possibly the fragile weapon feats too..

Build your own weapon-like objects with alchemical booms attached, draw another when that one explodes..

Empty Hand Monk, Feral Gnasher Barbarian, or maybe Cad Fighter come to mind for this.. It would be nice to add enhancement bonus too, though, so maybe magus, or even warpriest if GM allows weapon focus - improvised weapons..


I'd assume perception-based concealment from your position, cover from the object's.

Drawing the object to you first may simplify questions like this, but then adds complications like being able to non-action pull objects into your square, or cover between you and the object.

As far as a free snake infusion like effect, telekenetics is about clever tricks > good damage, and it does require an unattended object where you want it (barring using dust mote shenanigans), so not a problem IMO.

Just my casual opinions though, so tldr: dotted.


The best rage cycling options require higher barbarian levels, iirc. That's why the oracle (lame) 1, or buying an item, is preferred if rage cycling is wanted. Also, MA monk has no full attack solution, like barb10's beast pounce, or other monk's ki d-door for the dimensional agility line.

It looks like a good patch for flurry of misses. Depending on campaign/party, dipping mutation warrior or mutagenic mauler might also work for that. (10 minutes of buff replenished by 1 hr of alchemy work, vs X rounds/day).

+1 to staying lawful with a Bloodrager dip for Un-monk might work better if you really want that flurry of rages, although I'd miss the will save of old-monk.

Unfortunately, without being able to flurry in light armor, you miss out on the brawling enchant that keeps unarmed great, and MA can't qinggong barkskin to make up for the amulet slot. Not a downside if you were planning on using a monk weapon.

So, your idea has it's perks, but nothing really incredible that I'm seeing. Should be playable unless your party is full of mad optimizers.


To answer the first part of the OP, some of my characters (not restricted to PF) retirement plans: ascend to godhood, find a way to stay dead, hide their soul in the plane of dreams to dodge the contract on it, stabilize the heretical splinter sect of their faith that they founded, turn a space station into a hedonistic body-swapping heavily-medicated perma-party, get their license to practice medicine restored, make enough profit to stay drunk for a week (then un-retire), protect and raise all the rescued/captured monsters, convince the boss he's bodyguarding to go into a less dangerous career, pay off the gambling debts (and stop losing so much while continuing to be a semiprofessional gambler)...

To the last question, a rank or few in profSailor will usually be useful at some point. Prof soldier or merc can replace some social and knowledge skills in certain situations. Profession barrister/lawyer may let you roll a skill vs DM perversion of wishes or planar bindings.. Prof Wastrel is a good way to keep a party going indefinitely.. Depending on GM and creativity, master craftsman plus craft embroidery or runes might let you use the full variety of crafting feats. Craft alchemy has a variety of uses. Craft improvised weapons could be fun and maybe worth a damage die step on a dedicated imp wpn build..


When I'm in character, it bypasses my social anxiety, allowing me to actually interact with actual people. Then, once I've gamed with people, I feel comfortable around them in a way that would otherwise take months or years of regular interactions.

I get to safely practice and experiment with socializing, learning stuff I can apply with family and at work. (And which failures are funny vs awkward.)

The freedom of converting thought to action is exhilarating. Instead of spending ridiculous amounts of time and energy working up the gumption to do basic life activities, I get to experience going from any visualization to virtual actualization directly.


Words of Power makes the crossblooded sorceror well worthwhile, if you take the Experimental Spellcaster feat instead of going full words. Get a word known each level on time to use those slots as they show up.
Otherwise, as said, only for characters high level enough to use their lineaged specialized to-be-perfected mm'd spell, or as a dip.


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Fun-loving and trickstery paladin (Camwyna or sometimes Paks from the most excellent Deed of Paksennarion) or monk (Bulletproof Monk).

Disciplined warrior, done via Barbarian, rage flavored as some sort of martial hyperfocus.

A peace-seeking wanderer who uses grappling and unarmed techniques to pacify threats non-lethally. Barbarian/fighter.

A badass general, natural leader of men, master of strategic warfare. Bard, of course, inspire courage is a competence bonus deliverable through oratory of good tactical orders, no music fluff required.

Drug-addled charming scoundrel and musician, knowledgeable jack of all trades. Investigator (probably with student of philosophy trait, empiricist for more cha->int skills or psychic detective for charm spells).

Doctor and scientist, leaving behind their legitamite practice and lab after a tragedy, using their knowledge of anatomy and physics to make viscious debilitating strikes, with pockets full of interesting alchemical or Magical devices. Unchained Rogue.


Mindblade might work. Int-based spontaneous caster, so you get the WoP flexibility, and the ability to cherry-pick some normal spells from the psychic list, or pick up word-equavelents depending on your GM.
Thought components would suck for spell combat, though. Maybe rely more on 2handing with spellstrike to cut down on that. Might be better to go scion after all.

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