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726 posts. Alias of Christopher Vrysen.


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I believe Brad provokes AoO from Barb for attacking against CaGM, so provokes from Rog due to PO. Same trigger, Brad attacked Barb, so Barb gets no PO additional AoO from Rog.

If Barb damages Brad, then Rog can get their 1/rnd Opportunist AoO. However, Opp apparently doesn't specify that Brad provoked, just that Rog can AoO, so I don't think that PO triggers for Barb.

If we assume that taking an AoO assumes that it was provoked, then Barb does get a PO AoO, because her damaging Brad provoked from Rog, but I don't think that's RAW.

Depends on how much of the campaign you want his backstory to influence.

Occasional assassins from the bro, bounty hunters from the nation, would be one thing. He's accepted his new adventurous life, maybe even prefers it.

Seeking proof to clear his name and claim his inheritance, or bloody intrigue and revenge on everybody involved with his displacement, could become the purpose of the whole game.

Single weapon trick from weapon master handbook, only prerequisite is weapon focus. However, requires light/no armor, free hand, miss by 5, and only works once against a given foe per day.

I'd talk to the GM before assuming the shadow has a natural attack and not its own category, for stuff like haste and jaw spells.

I've always wanted to see a shadowdancer3 working Str damage themselves. Probably a natural attack build to max out Rogue2 for pressure points.

I had an idea for a lost legion game, where every character started with 1+ fighter levels with the same teamwork feats, then could multiclassed as they wished. The game would start with their army being routed and destroyed deep in wild dangerous territory, escaping the battlefield, then deciding how to survive, either get home, or desert and make new lives, or try to complete the mission somehow.

I laminated the Kingmaker maps, then used dry erase to fog it, and let the players draw in their own notes, roads, cities, borders, etc. In character, as it were. Took regular touch ups to fix smears was the only downside.

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Savage Technologist Barbarian is designed for this, if allowed in PFS. 5 of that might be better for you then gunslinger, just replace Sword&Pistol with Amateur Gunslinger?

Or double down on a bad deal, go elven dreamspeaker slumber witch. Take up the challenge of having 4hp, -2 Fort, and a 30' range on your best trick. Take a figment familiar, have it make enough noise that you can hope it distracts an enemy into one-shotting it instead of you, then get it back in the morning if you somehow survive the day.

There is a FAQ that basically says they do count as human, elf, and half-elf for FCB and similar options, so that should be fine.

More importantly, that sounds like a painful multiclass, depending on what you want there may be a better way to make it work.

Dwarven Battle Host Occultist, start with mw stoneplate and Toughness.

Oh yeah, there's also choosing ranger favored enemy well, and casting a lot of instant enemy eventually.

If you have a reliable flanking buddy (animal companion?), Outflank is a good extra +2 too.

Still more situational than weapon master 3 - Sentinel X. However, looks like there's no Deific Obedience for Ragathiel, and even if a GM allowed celestial obedience in its place it looks too tough to pull off reliably, so that idea is DOA after all.

So, ranger X is situationally more accurate than sticking with Titan mauler to keep reducing that -8 penalty at 3rd and every 3. Weapon Master 3 is better once gloves of dueling are added, except for further delaying instant enemy and companion advancement if going ranger.

Hamburglin wrote:
@Claxton I get the premise, but that leaves me wondering what the orc bloodline is good for.

Martials with Eldritch Heritage, and evoker/admixture wizards that dip crossblooded sorceror 1.

Need more dex for 2wf unless you're getting it from ranger/slayer combat style. Pretty sure 2wf non-light weapons is -4/-4.
Also might want to prepare for scoffing at the ridiculousness of imagining trying to fight with that much unwieldliness.

Weapon master fighter and gloves of dueling, then Sentinel to get Sacred buffs?

It won't help immediately, but investigator studies plus mutagen eventually make them pretty darned accurate despite the lesser BaB, but you'd want more Int for that.

I definitely suggest you reduce Cha to get some Con.
Are you looking to two-hand, or dual-wield?
The biggest drawback to EK is that if you use Arcane Strike, you won't have the Swift action to use on the spell. Same with any of the bard's swift or immediate action spells. Also, its armor training is unnecessary with bardic armored casting.

I think you'd be better off sticking with AD than trying the EK. By the time you'd get EK spellstrike, you could instead afford a quicken metamagic rod and gloves of storing when you want to swift cast.
If you want to get out of bard after 7th, dragon disciple isn't bad.

Ragebred skinwalkers (were-pigs have the power) are kings of natural attacks, barring synth summoner at higher levels, or that great lake octupus wild shape.

Take the feat to have gore/hoof/hoof.

They don't count as lycanthropes, so you'll need ranger or slayer 2 for the aspect of the beast perma-claws feat, or limited rounds claws by Barbarian beast totem or bloodline ability. Or feral mutagen, limitted by 1hour downtime between uses.

GM call if you can pick up a bite along with the gore, beastiary examples of bite/gore creatures all have gore from head horns not tusks. Plenty of ways to grab it if allowed though.

Mutation warrior, possibly picking up AWT to count your weapon specific feats to all your attacks, or alchemist into Master chemyst, given the permissive claws/arms ruling both seem like good ways to go.

You could also conceivably pick up IUS to downgrade all your attacks to secondary to pick up iterative unarmed, but you'd have to check with GM on how you're unarmed attacking with all your extremities and face tied up with naturals.

Depends on how committed to the rogue class you are, depending on what you want your character to do there may be other classes that do it better. Also, what books are available, is it the Unchained (decent) or core (avoid) rogue, and what level are you starting at?

Investigators are more skillful than rogues, and very accurate at levels 4+ with mutagen and studying, but have little damage for those first levels. Swashtigator (1 level of Inspired Blade swashbuckler, rest investigator) are pretty groovy.

Archaeologist bards with the Fate's Favored trait can do well.

Deific Obedience - Pharasma gives +2 Sacred to hit with daggers, tough to find a better feat to help accuracy. Outflank helps too if you have a reliable flanking buddy that takes it with you.

3 levels of Weapon Master Fighter help with accuracy and feats.

+1 to Slayers, pretty much a pure upgrade to the core rogue. Check them out.

Ninjas are also core rogue upgrades.

I allowed a reversed share spells in a game I ran once, but it was a deliberate boost to the weakest character in the party.
His xbow rogue(scout) 10 / diviner1 mostly used my extra liberal interpretation to have his UMD mephit activate scrolls of Arrow Eruption or True Strike for him on the same turn as his shot.
I can see how on a stronger build it could be abused heartily, but it was a fun way to get this player around his lack of contribution frustration.

Dwarven dorn-dergar comes to mind, but pretty sure that's no diety's Favored weapon.
You could trade your skill focus for ancestral arms proficiency in an exotic, not technically a race change.
You could try to pull the small-sized reach weapon shenanigans to 1-hand a small polearm.
I think Bestow Weapon Proficiency is a 2nd level inq spell.

Alchemical expendables can eat up your gold quick. Smokesticks for defense, acid flasks and alc fire are always good, anti-toxins/plagues can be life savers.
You could waddle around in a swarmsuit.
MW healer's kit can be really useful.
MW tools for anything you want to do.

Sensate's thing is weapon agnostics, so don't see the benefit for an exotic specialist. Un-rogue 4 is a good level, no need to escape until after that.

I assume that military tradition is an alternate racial ability that swaps the bonus feat for 2 exotic proficiencies?

Don't have the BaB+1 for wpn focus at Rogue1, would have to swap that with 2wf, if you actually want that.

2WF with whips is a hefty penalty, you'll want some serious accuracy boosts to try that..

Assuming that by your rogue 3 that you want a finesse build, not Str. If not, if you've got enough attributes for it, str build with warpriest or slayer could be better..
I've been pondering a warpriest of Sekhet with a city-raised half-orc with the tats and Fate's Favored, the WMH war chaplain archtype.

Whip mastery is basically a tax for Improved whip mastery, but iwm is surely worth it.

Pretty sure the official answer is Possibly, if I recall the maneuver blog correctly. If you can describe how it's being done and the GM agrees, you can do a dirty trick with a weapon.

It requires 2wf with a tankard and either a rapier or another light weapon.
I've been pondering a 2 tankard build, but don't think you can enchant them as weapons so that sucks. Maybe warpriest could work it with their sacred weapon and buffs.
The lack of enchants means it's really only useful for the blinds and buffs. Maybe rogue or slayer could use it for more reliable sneak attacks.
The 'other liquids' bit seems to work for extracts barring a faqrata. It would have the hassle of loading the tankards until the upgrade. Maybe quick draw required and just store everything in covered tankards.

Also, pretty sure that battle tankard is not allowed in PFS, in case that's relevant.

A) I love Rahadoumi anti-theism! Wanting them to offer tangible alternatives instead of just freedom from god-slavery is tougher though..
Healing patron witch. They bargain with extraplanar entities as an equal, not a slave. Ley-line guardian if they hate familiars.
Alchemist. Chirurgeon gives free cure infusions until he has room for the discovery. If they don't like bombs, there's vivisectionist. Empiricist investigators are cool too. Science(pseudo)!
Occultist with some conjuration focus works too. Real mortal magic is within and around us, no need to serve other planes for it.
Bards make strong debaters. See the Carla Profane post for some perks. Voice of the Wild and possibly Songhealer could help with status removal.

B) Bard bard bard, any will do, see above again. Mesmerist could work too, possibly Cult Master even. Haven't seen it yet, but vigilante social talents might work. Rogue would be more work (make sure to unchain) but seems doable too.

C) +1 to Slayer, or Barbarian (maybe just a Savage Tech dip). Possibly a Sensate fighter, but just not enough skill points.

MoMS gets their multiple styles up by switching styles and letting the prior style persist. So you start combat in one style, and then on your turn with this feat you use free actions to activate new styles until you're done.

GM is free to impose arbitrary limits on how many free actions you can take in a round, but I think 3-5 is usually safe.

Depending on how much you need your initial swift action, or if you want to use different styles during and between turns, could be worth it.

1 level of wizard means you have a caster level of 1, and can take feats that have that as a prerequisite.

Brew Potion normally requires CL 3, and doesn't specify that alchemists can use it despite not having caster levels. So no you can't qualify for it with wiz1, and even if you could shenanigan it somehow, your extracts wouldn't work with it.

Edit:ninja acknowledgement.

It's like a clouded vision oracle, but starts off better. Playing one of those, I tasked a party member to relay out-of-range descriptions to me, and eventually picked up a familiar to take care of that.

A relation of one of the PCs track them down.
One of the best RP experiences I've ever had was a new player that came in as my angry ex-betrothed that wanted blood and/or answers on why I'd screwed up the arrangements with the party's actions.
I've also seen the little sibling chasing after their sempai, or protective parent or hired bodyguard coming after their runaway.

The rescued PC thing is usually easy to work in.

The competition. PC is found from another group in the area on the same or related mission, rival adventurer, government agent/soldier. Whether last survivor or assigned to liason the party or fed up with or by their old group..

Displaced PC can work. Basically the new guy falls out of thin air in front of the party, like from a portal trap or malfunction, a teleportation mishap, or plane shift bad roll. Can take more doing to get their motivation in line with the party.

Wow, savage tech Barb is a great lvl 1 dip, don't know how I've missed that! Keeps the fast movement unlike Urban..

With that and the right stats, you could skip the rogue's dex damage, aim for weapon training and the advanced training (also WMH) that doubles WT when you dex to hit with str to damage..

Unfortunately, my first post was wrong, normal swash doesn't work to make falcatas finessable unless you take Slashing Grace, so have to use the falcata swash and give up derring-do.

So, Barb(ST)1, Swash(F)1, then maybe Fighter(Weapon Master)5 for the above and probably the skill ranks advanced trainings.. Leave some feats open for Extra Rage if you don't go back to Barb, and you'll definitely want Iron Will.

If you're dumping Cha, no worries about the low panache, just go Swash5 and take a Dare to benefit from the empty pool, or take Extra Panache at some point instead.
If you want dex damage and like the rogue class despite its problems, go for it instead. Savage Tech's Str boost will be useful until rogue3, and possibly for str skills or non-falcata damage after that.

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Urban barbarian 1 for dex rage, the new WMH falcata swashbuckler 1 would make it finessable and give prof, & un-rogue 3 for dex damage that works 2hand or 2weapon unlike slashing grace, then either back to Barb or anything more fun for the rest?

If ok taking h-elf trait to get prof, any swash would give you dex to hit. If not going dex, then I'd avoid the rogue and go for static damage and skills elsewhere..

Are you looking for ways to contribute out of combat, or tactics in combat other than full-attack?

Either way, off the top of my head, I believe there's a feat to gain a familiar with iron will as a prerequisite, could open up some RP as well as give some extra tactics, especially if you're allowed to take improved familiar and have ranks in UMD.. Even without the familiar, UMD can open a lot of utility once you can hit dc20 with some reliability..

I believe there's ranged maneuver feats in the ranged tactics tool box that could add a little variety to your combat rounds.

Warpriest arsenal chaplain could give you some minor spellcasting and buffs, and open up AWT feats at 5th, I'd be torn between the bonus skills (UMD!) or the sacred damage (could stack all effective fighter levels to give you base 2d6 damage at that level)..

Deific obedience feat could open up evangelist prestige, trade good BaB for skills and abilities..

Rogue(Unchained) gives you skills, slightly more damage melee option vs those nasty wind spells, and debuffs, just need a way to reliably SA and then greater sniper goggles pay off with only a few dice, but that's all easier said then done..

Paladin code is a forced RP challenge / conversation starter.. Same with Oracle's curse, especially with a mysterious patron..

Slayer, or Bard or Skald even with that Cha, give some skills and buffs, but it's take a long while before action economy would let you use the buffs effectively..

Edit: took too long to type, good ideas up there...

Paul S Kemp's spiderqueen novel (the only one of the series worth reading IMO) has a great archmage duel in it. It starts with them and their minions spying and researching each other's usual buffs and tactics and gear, heated surveillance and counters during and after morning memorizations, and flurries of counters and quickened spells, full of the extra broken Faerun spells.

Just don't know what you're getting out of Monk. It would delay your magus progression.. Wearing light armor gives you access to the excellent brawling enchantment, that plus arcane pool means you're AoMF won't be subpar lime other unarmeds. You won't be able to flurry when you're using spell combat. If you don't like the look of armor, haramaki or darkleaf leathers aren't armor-like at all.

If you must, instead of unchained, master of many styles could work, you could have two active styles with one level dip, and the style master feat makes them free actions, and you don't have to give up your brawling armor or over invest in wis.
Outslug is excellent, with no penalty lunge and the 3rd feat you'd often be able to avoid having to cast defensively.. You could mix that with crane or dragon or snake, or maybe even djinni to get a bonus to all electric damage instead of just with elemental fist like the other ele styles.. This would tie up most of your feats, though..
If not MoMS, Sohei would let you armored flurry when not spell combatting, and always act in surprise round doesn't suck..

TK blasts are hitting people with objects wrapped in your mind stuff. It doesn't specify a minimum size, though, so some allow any speck of dust to be the object, or maximum size, although I'd houserules limited to your basic TK weight... It also doesn't say if your mind stuff is visible or not.

KB for TK doesn't make the purely cosmetic shape that the other energies do, just lets you wield it like melee instead of the normal blast. So, you could ask GM if your mindstuff can be visible and 'saber shaped, concealing that you're just smacking them with a rolled up newspaper or granola crumbles. Or use any sword or weapon that you wield as your blast, not as whatever it is.

For a light saber look naturally, air-electric, or maybe a 3p light element, could work better.

Doesn't EA gives up up all the utility wild talents, including even the Basic? Doesn't seem very Jedi like.

If you're looking for more inspiration for this fun and classic trope, off the top of my head in addition to the most excellent Fafhrd & Grey Mouser books by Fritz Lieber, you could check out the Riyria books by Michael J Sullivan, the Poison Elves graphic novels by Drew Hayes, the Locke Lamora books by Scott Lynch, or the Egil & Nix books by Paul S Kemp.

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Isn't pirahna strike only for light weapons, not usable on any finessable 1H+?

Just a Mort wrote:


For serious condition removal, prepared casters are best. Spontaneous casters - human FCB or no, you wouldn't want to waste it on removal spells. ...

In my experience, when you need a removal spell you need it for multiple castings and at a good CL, and need it time sensitively, so they're great for a spont caster, especially a battle oracle that doesn't need to cast much in combat and can save their spells known for utilities outside of the couple of favorite buffs you'll have time or quickens to cast. As a prepared, you either don't have enough iterations memorized, or the afflicted have to wait too long for help.

That's a pretty terrible stats/class/race combo for combat, especially if you're starting at 1st. It'll be at least 3 levels before they have any damage bonus at all. Also, complicated to play, two pools of abilities with a variety of fiddly bits to manage.. Unless the rest of the party is similarly anti-optimized, why would you do that to a new player?

Sure you can't change it to un-rogue or swashbuckler? they're not particularly strong but they'd be better than this.. Or shave a point from Cha for str..

Maybe some sort of aid another build? Although those tend to need lots of feats or halfling access..

With the effortless lace + Slashing grace you should be well on your way to non-negligible combat damage.. Pick up the quick study and mutagen talents and you'll be groovy.. I would be scared of being dependent on a specific weapon though, just a sunder or disarm or dispel away from being sidelined..

Kensai magus could work well, especially if you're OK with using a rapier with Fencing Grace, and flavor the class spellbook as some sort of martial arts journal.. It'll take some time before your dex is high enough to make up for the lack of armor, but eventually the AC will be golden.. Haramaki armor is just basically a silk sash so probably good for you too.. I'd advise your first feats to be finesse, Fencing grace, weapon versatility, and possibly weapon trick..

Yeah, having the paladin player on board changes things. Talk to them and GM about acceptable behavior and subterfuges. #1 being he not ping you unnecessarily. If pally is iomedaen too, see if you can be set up above him in the hierarchy, and/or even pull off a ploy of having special dispensation to use undead in the service of good.

An option for the holy symbol is to pay for an intricate iomedae symbol with lots extra artwork around it, and incorporate the asmodious symbol in the extras.

I assumed you weren't going to be actually evil, just wanting to be.

If actually evil, not starting at 1st means the ring is possible.. But as most posts on that thread said, if playing evil with a paladin in the group, #1 make sure the player is ok with it, #2 best route is to use the work together against a greater evil argument (or ordered by superiors to work with you as long as you don't cross the line) instead of trying to hide your alignment..

So what sort of attack is the touch attack then? Doesn't have iteratives, so it's not just a normal attack. That means it's either a natural attack that they can FA with, or a special action that they can't. I've never been able to sort out which, so when I've GM'd, depending on the group I've gone all ways, from giving them iterative attacks with higher bab, to allowing Feral combat training plus Monk levels to make an extra scary version, or just restricting the attack to 1/round, regardless of buffs..

It's a dick move on the part of whichever of you announced your character concept 2nd, unless you're both OK with it..

Clerics of an evil god ping on detect evil at 1st level, and undead at 2hd, so outside of ring(s) of mind shielding given to you well above WBL, so no defense against the paladin pinging any prospective companion against this exact threat to his holiness.

So, if the campaign is based on an overwhelmingly evil threat, instead of trying to hide it, you could sell him on needing your help to work against the greater evil. Or have you teamed up by superiors as an intra-faith taskforce, like abadar and asmodeus cults in a city trying to increase cooperation.. At that point, hiding how evil you are is being polite to avoid offending him, instead of attempting to corrupt him. A lot depends on what faith and style of clergy the two of you are..

Depends on if that is a standard action supernatural ability (so no full attack actions), or a natural attack (since per greater shadow it doesn't get iteratives at bab+6 it's not a normal attack) that they can full attack with to trigger the extra attack from BoF or Haste...

I was talking about alternate Tiefling racial abilities. (Scroll down, they're just before the alternate Tiefling types.)
The ARG also has a feat that you can take twice to get the See In Darkness ability, where instead of Darkvision X', you just ignore all natural or supernatural darkness. I think soul seer and those go together thematically for a dark-tainted eyes thing.

The preservationist adds the summon natures ally spells as extracts, fluffed as having samples of those creatures in bottles (although you don't actually need specific samples to cast them), so I was talking about running with that collecting samples fluff for RP. Creatures you can't summon you could rant and rail about how you missed the soul.

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Preservationist alchemist, into master chemyst..
Mutate would give you the don't piss off the little guy thing, he could constantly be bottling samples from creatures' brains, chortling about trapping their souls as he does so since he figured out where it lives..
If you don't like bombs you can go vivisector, but why since that won't advance with MC and doesn't use your alternate FCB to improve bomb damage and doesn't make things explode.
Daemon-spawn for finesse / Slashing grace with a dagger or agile AoMF with Feral mutagen, or Oni-spawn for str with a longspear and combat reflexes (and/or Feral).. Soul seer alternate would help with a soul obsession, and is thematic with the eyes if you go for the see in darkness feats.. Pass for Human if GM will allow it to work for his gnomish heritage instead, if not that then maw and fiendish sprinter are cool too..
Tumor familiar raven (or improved to imp if GM allows) would give you the devil on your shoulder..
Infusion and bomb discoveries like dispelling and stinking should give most of your party's caster needs.

That page is missing the second half of the chapter, with the AWT feat and the weapon master love.

The rogue sneaks around having challenging beastie encounters, while the wizard charm persons the giants into letting the captives go and using the rod on the spire? Sounds like an Angel Summoner & BMX Bandit episode to me.. Hope your caster enjoys going with the story flow instead of plot derailing..

Good point, I'm converted.

I disagree. Sacred weapon says it sets the base damage to the new value, and improves with actual size increases (per the expanded table), so I'd think a virtual size increase should work as well..

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