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Cult of Vorg's page

588 posts. Alias of Christopher Vrysen.


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Dimensional feat chain not allowed.

Concept +1.

No room for it due to other nifty feats or features.

Low or worse wisdom bringing uses per day to too few.

Guilds/unions/competition could be a big reason for casters not revolutionizing most situations.

Most cities would have the ability to create magical lighting, but the honorable guild of lamplighters are lobbying or sabotaging it, and there's political infighting between churches as to who gets the PR.

The archmage could set up teleport circles for trade, but in addition to the dangers of pissing off the teamsters, the government sees it as a huge security concern and takes it over to prevent enemy agents and armies from using it. Especially if they're still negotiating for city-wide Forbiddence spells in return for tax breaks and other considerations.

City populations are big. Creating food and water, or removing disease, can make a big difference for a few people, but still won't make much of a difference city-wide in case of famine or plague.

Also, a population dependent on create water to sustain them is in unacceptable danger if something happens to those casters or their gods, or if they start using their monopoly on the settlements life or death to theocratize the place..

Best natural attacker is a boar shifter, which I believe requires a boon for PFS. Gore hoof hoof, trait for the adopted orc bite, slayer for the nat wpn style for claw claw.

I guess tiefling requires a boon now, too. They could get to claw claw bite with the adopted orc thing too.. Guess tengu is the way to go now if you're not a shifter, don't have or want the orcs of golarion bite trait, and don't want to be limited by rage or bloodline rounds..

So, guess crane riposte can trigger off every miss by the winged opponent now?
That isn't terrible; like snake fang without the weapon restriction, single target, and supported by ac boosts instead of immediate action competition.
(EDIT: just read the FAQ, first attack only, never mind.)

And yay clarification, no more worrying about bishopping past reach.

Thanks PDT, happy holidays to you too.

Or off the top of my head, moms 2 and brawler the rest. You get flurry back, elemental fist, pick up dragon ferocity to improve it, and martial flex into whichever elemental style you want. Pummelling style too, dragon will also help you get those eventual pounce charges... No blood crow / ki, but it still looks fun to me..

s15+2 d14 c14 i12-2 w14 ch7+2
1 brawler1: wpn focus
2 brawler2: pummel style
3 moms1: dragon style, elemental fist
4 brawler3: str+1
5 moms2: dragon ferocity, pummel charge
7 brawler5: combat style master, wpn spec
and the the rest is brawling good times..

Definitely worth pondering. Are their methods acceptable if I take a minute to think about it instead of knee jerk reacting? How likely is it that their followers and descendants will keep to the deal? Does he keep his word with everybody, or just credible threats like me (as I may not be any longer once his power is consolidated)? Is the deal only for current friends/family, or how do you handle future claims?

I like the idea of the mark of fate automatically reincarnating them. Eventually more characters will die, so unless this 'fate' only requires one of them to make it, you'll eventually run into this problem again.

At this point, if you don't explain why, they'll have to wonder if it's them or the island. Especially if the bodies of their kills disappear, and they meet things that could be imagined to be next lives of them. Coincedence or functional immortality, die again to find out?

Sure, there's ways to exploit it, but are those worse than the disruption of your plot of char death and replacements? Especially if you make it harrowing, giving the rez'd nightmares or flashbacks.. Instead of just walking out of the morning mist, they wake up to him screaming and bleeding from the eyes, and not knowing why he's alive again..

I was in a campaign off and on for over 10 years, and ended up rebuilding Ulfgrim the several times, every time a new edition released. 2e battleguard, then a skills/powers dual class fighter/battleguard, 3.0 fighter/battleguard-conversion, 3.5 barbarian/cleric/forgotten barb-pally style prestige/warpriest, to a PF barbarian/oracle.. Always core concept of a gung-ho human warrior priest with a bastard sword and spiked gauntlet.

I prefer to always try new things, never the same class or concept twice, so a campaign lasting this long was a challenge. The rebuilds were a major part of keeping my interest.

Still wouldn't have been able to do it without character development. Going from a favored son of the tempurian church, to a heretical outcast based on a more philosophical outlook on war/conflict, and eventually cast out and powerless until the oracle rebuild and mysterious new patron. The char started as a joke super-jock, but turned into a real personality, dealing with feelings of self-worth dealing with more powerful party members, perma-death of friends, and developing real relationships instead of macho postering and hired professionals.

Lightening, lightning, typos are funny.

I keep wanting to do something with djinni style, getting the wis bonus to electric spell damage, but too tough to make it work. Maybe if GM would allow a wild/cross blood to work, empyreal/draconic, with experimental wordcaster to get back the known spell..

I'd worry about the capture attempt the most. Many players have no concept of escalation of force, or have an emotional reaction to the thought of being made helpless, so the sad saps with saps might get them and their band slaughtered mercilessly.

Also, make sure this person is not responsible for any atrocities that the party has seen or seen people affected by.

I like the idea of tying them into one or more PC back stories, so the moment of recognition is an excuse to stop combat, as he berates his people to stop non-productively dying and let his friends through. Few things are as frustratingly disarming as someone who assumes friendship and acts like one (friendly, not stalker obsession).

Be flexible on who they are, in case the party executes the obvious leader before they can say anything or be recognized. That way some other survivor can thank them for the promotion, and you're not derailed.

Assuming you're looking for friendship and not just party compliance, I think the party would be more receptive if they are same or higher level as these bandits. Higher level NPCs tend to be resented and/or seen as a challenge to be overcome. Lower level NPCs are more likely to be adopted like a pet, or ignored..

I only started playing bards once I realized the Inspire Courage bonus is competence. So, perform oratory becomes tactical genius. No other class short of Battle Herald can take the party leader role as well, knowledge of foes, overlap with any other class to support or advise them, social skills so the person negotiating for the party actually has the authority to make deals.. So, defluffing the music out of the class, you have a natural strategic, social, and tactical leader.

Or stick with the music and make a metal guitar hero with an adamant-bodied electric Axe.. Or stick with the music and make a joke punchline.

I'm looking forward to this. Unleash the Paizo creativity! Hoping for some drastic overhauls, more than just archetypes. I like how the card game and mmo are handling their class conversions, got every reason for high hopes here.

I'm curious on what they'll do with the barb, seems like a really solid class, best of the martials. Maybe just working on the name, getting rid of rage altogether in favor of more recognisable tribal roles? I think rangers do that fine already.. I'd love a non-specialist tactical fighter too, tactician and lore warden archetypes are close but not right for me yet, complete unleashing there would be nice.. maybe the unleashed barb is reflavored as a martial trance thing as a framework for a backdoor fighter fix? Any way it goes, i'll be buying this..

I believe there's oozes that split for slashing but not piercing.

There's some materials where slashing would probably be considered ineffective, or that piercing would be considered especially effective.

I think crossblooded can be well worth it, IF you can take Experimental Spellcaster feat for the Words of Power optional system. That gives you an effect word known for every spell level, countering the otherwise crippling penalty to spells known.

Whether crossblooded or not, picking a race with alternate favored class bonus is practically required, especially as the group's only arcane caster.

Otherwise a big +1 to that last post.

Sorry for bad news, but pretty sure 2 handed fighter weapon training doesn't create a generic 2 hand group. It says it's as normal weapon training but restricted to 2hand melee weapons. So, still have to choose axes or heavy blades or polearms, but you get no bonus to the smaller weapons. Also, as it says two handed weapons, as opposed to while wielding a weapon in two hands, it may not apply when wielding a 1handed weapon in both hands.

On top of that, your GM might not allow an improvised weapon to be enchanted as a weapon, or rule that once that happens it's no longer considered improvised. I wouldn't agree, but i've seen that used to shut down similar ideas a couple of times now.

Fun idea though, i love improvised weapons.

Choke point doors, observed by guards with pull rope flour or chalk dust traps. Almost impossible barring teleportation magic to sneak through an observed locked door.

Kill tiny animals on sight rules for guards as well, at least within observation range of any sensitive areas.

Pay for an annual Hallow with Invis Purge or Dispel Magic or even just Detect Magic (tough to use magic subtly when it highlights you in blue). Depending on the size of the structure multiple hallows with different abilities for different zones might useful.

Lead lined walls will block the majority of divinations.

Permanent spells like alarm, private sanctum, symbols. Gust of wind traps or permanent at windows might be useful for hvac air flow as well as blowing away tiny or gaseous infiltrators.

Costs range from negligible to prohibitive, so the trick is figuring out what CR you want a place to be. Nothing is impregnable, but NPCs should invest in safety as they can.

Goblin feral gnasher barbarian gives you improvised weapon mastery the quickest, at 5th.
Even on 15pts, you could go str 16-2, dex 12+4, con 14, int 10, wis 12, cha 7-2..
After or mixed with that, dip fighter for armor and feats..
Definitely nice to trait for a character-level cantrip for arcane strike, and surprise weapon for +2 to all attacks with your chosen weapon type..

Have fun crafting improbable and cruel devices for your improvised weapons, pick up splintering weapon to add bleed to your attacks..

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If i'm a stronger optimizer than my group, i'll pick a weaker class/concept to put the breaks on my natural inclinations. Likewise if my group is hardcore gamers, i'll play something strong so i don't hold them back. It's all about the group dynamics.

Enchanted armor is much cheaper than bracers of armor so you can afford more enchant, can go up to +10 instead of +8, and gives the base armor bonus too. It's always on, too, so you don't get caught between spells. I thought robes and armor were the same slot though, if not then even better.

Darkleaf quilted or leather works too, in case you don't like the style of the other 0% AF armors.

+1 to Deathless and spell storing and fortification for defense, dueling for offense. Anything past that point is pure luxury purchasing given the cost-reward ratio. If your wealth gets to the point that you're hunting for ways to spend it then you can revisit these.

Death metal not-bard. Black blade for an electric guitar/ battleaxe. Hexcrafter since you won't have the crit range.

Unarmed. kensai for damage, or i'd prefer hexcrafter for hex strike. Between arcane pool and brawling armor, your unarmed strike will be more than fully enchanted. Focus on frigid touch, force punch, and other spells where crit fishing isn't so necessary.

Captain Ameroccult. Skirnir shield basher. If you have one or two heavy hitters in the party, greater bull rush's AoOs on a shield slam is great. True strike so it always works, ability to custom enchant the shield..

There's a great guide around with a polymorph natural attacker, and the defiler prehensile hair debuffer.

AoO, maneuver master, quick bull rush, shield slam, spinning throw.. all ways to get an unarmed attack followed by a bull rush in the same turn..

Folks that are convinced that they deserve this fate, or that it's worth it to achieve their goals.

Contradictory sources. Sure, that knowledge check means some reliable sources claim that horrific fate will happen, but you're being told differently by the evil god recruiter. People get scammed and conned all the time, even when the facts which could save them are readily available.

Bonus is a game term, a positive modifier. Being able to cast a spell would e a benefit not a bonus. Adding sorceror levels to wizard levels to determine the arcane bond's power is a bonus, and specifically allowed in this case despite possibly arguably the same source.

Sorceror arcane bond explains that its levels stack with wizard levels for your arcane bond. Singular not plural. If it meant you get a 2nd item more powerful than the first, it would explicitly say that instead. By saying it stacks, that means it does that instead of giving a separate item.

I like to use a dungeon with various little figurines scattered around. At the end there was a statue of a sphinx with a riddle on it and an arm-deep hole. Put the figurine that answers the riddle in the hole, if correct it opens, if not it chops off the arm.

I usually run it as an annual competitive dungeon crawl event, so if the party missed the correct one, they could pick it up by encountering their competitors, and to justify a crazily old-school .designed dungeon. Small cash prize for the winner,and possible employment opportunities from the audience for any survivors.

SOP for any puzzle or mystery is to have 3 clues available for every 1 you want a party to find and use correctly. I like the party to ponder openly, so if they come up with a better idea than mine i can roll with that instead, or throw something more obvious at them if they're going nowhere..

You have it already, slumber is a win button, unless they're immune in which case it's useless.Misfortune works on anything that rolls, although it requires cackle and/or levels to improve the duration.

The hidden downside to Slumber is that it's much more likely to provoke GM frustration. Many just ban it outright, or it falls under the all too common BBEG fudged immunity to death in the first round, but even if the GM plays it straight it's more likely to just piss them off.

Standard action charge is supposed to be restricted to the surprise round, being restricted to a standard action is not the same as having a standard remaining after using your move action. However, unless it's been errata'd, this abuse may be technically RAW, as PF lost the partial charge definition from 3.5..

Aspect of the beast requires wild shape, lycanthropy (doesn't say shapeshifter subtype, specific to lycanthopy infected, which shifters are not), or ranger 2.. also, as said, there's a limit of 1 natural attack per limb, so 4 claws are right out, and indeed bite with gore could be argued..
I know there's threads arguing about it, but vestigial limb says you don't get extra attacks with it.. so, makes sense to not allow the limb to grant an extra natural attack, even if you grow claws on it..

So, ranger 2 (if nat wpn style chosen) or barb 2 (only while raging) can give claws.. barb 2 can also get a bite attack, apparently as a secondary although that's certainly arguable, and it's also arguable if you can both bite and gore.

Racial Heritage - aasimar would let you spend 2 feats about lvl 11 to get 2 secondary wing buffets..
i've seen RH-kobold argued that you can take tail terror to get a tail attack, but as i read it, you need a tail to get the benefit, it's not a prereq to taking the feat, but it is the effect of the feat, you get to use your tail as a natural attack, not that you gain a tail or gain a natural attack with no conditionals..

Tentacle cloak gives 2 tentacle attacks for 1 minute, 1/day.

I believe there's a lamashtu spell in Faiths of Corruption that grants a natural attack..

The best natural attacker is polymorph into great lake octopus, i believe, don't recall which book it's from but it's 8 tentacles and a bite.
If you awakened one of those, or polymorphed into one, you could barb 2 or helm for gore (if allowed with bite), do same RH for wings, although level 11 is even further away with racial HD..

I'm itching to play a Rahadoumi monk, maybe with a splash of paladin later, for a bit of that 'Death's Heretic' vibe.

Sometimes i threaten to build a freakish natural attack specialist with pressure points, chill touch, and shadowdancer dip, specialized in paralyzing anything not immune to str damage.. (if i can handle the ridiculousness, boar shifter for gore hoof hoof, barbarian 2 for bite claw claw while raging, and either ninja for extra ki attack, or rogue bandit for surprise round full attack.. could instead go tengu for claw claw bite, racial heritage for eventual wing buffets, mammoth helm for gore, or other even weirder combos)..

Would love to do a mystic theurge holy fire deal, elemental/draconic sorc plus blackened/tongues oracle, with experimental spell caster for the versatile blasts as extra spells known. Like a holy version of that fire sorc from 'Worldwound Gambit'...

Want to play a badass rogue-type with a knife, like Royce from the Riyeria books. Still pondering how to make him effective enough to pull his weight though. Maybe just have to wait for a woefully unoptimized group, or a campaign based on capers and heists.

+1 to having the players figure it out. If they're stuck for ideas, there's a table in UC for inspiration or random pick.
I'm planning for my next game to hold the pc's traits hostage for this, one trait per connection with another pc that's a viable reason to trust and adventure with them. (Or instead one appropriate bonus trait for at least two of said connections)

In the past, once i had one player recruit the others, char-gen restriction that they all had to be willing to adventure for fun and profit; similar to the creepy tavern employer, but with more player agency..

In the future, i plan a sequel to an old campaign, where all the PCs are descendants of one or more of the original party, dealing with the fallout of some of that game's loose plot threads.. i've seen similar games where all the characters are related to eachother..

Once we had a list of pc connections, and a list of dark secrets, each player randomly drew one of each to incorporate into their character..

Dresden Files RPG has a neat system i'm itching to use.. each player writes a short description of a story worthy event of their character's past, then passes it to the left, where the next player adds the short description of such an event that involved both of their characters, so each pc has a history with each other pc which they can riff on..

I ran a werewolf game once inspired by SK's It, where i dumped them into the action telling them they were childhood friends that hadn't seen eachother for 20 years, then slowly filled in the blanks with flashback scenes..

I agree with the majority here, especially talking to the GM. If he's going story over sandbox, this monk probably has unbeatable plot armor, as well as killing him derailing the planned end game. They also just might not realize how irritating massively overpowered NPCs are

Otherwise target his caster allies first, and introduce him to (greater) dispel magic or disjunction or antimagic once his support base is weakened. See if GM allows using maximize and/or empower on the dispel checks to auto-win them.

Dust of Sneezing and Choking is generally a win button against anyone.

In various rebuilds and editions from 2e-PF, my war priest Ulfgrim has been a fan of using antimagic field to bully and pummel archmages and phaerimm.
There's nothing more fun than taking a nigh-godlike caster from their sky to your ground n pound, especially with a terminal velocity fall to start it off.

Charm spells do two things, they make the target treat the caster as a close friend, and they allow the charisma check to get them to do things they ordinarily wouldn't do.

you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do
The caveat is the "obviously harmful" phrase.
An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders

Interpreted by one extreme, it means other than physically hurting themselves, any order is acceptable with the cha check, no matter how monstrous. Interpreted to the other extreme, any request that even inconveniences the target is automatically refusable.

I think the common sense middle ground is to determine it by the personality and alignment of the target. Anything that would drive them insane with regret and grief afterwards, that they'd prefer death or prison or public humiliation to, they get to auto-refuse.

In that case, much like alignment and codes of conduct, the mileage of a charm spell is under GM discretion, and requires discussion with the GM rather than some impossible faq or errata.

11 levels of paladin to get the evil=dead aura of justice, 8 levels barbarian for the superstition/spellsunder goodies?

Paladin 3 for rage cycling with the fatigue mercy, barbarian the rest?

I'd be curious about bloodrager/paladin, to get more mileage from cha.. i'd guess the lack of cha synergy and class feature delays would hurt barb/pal enough to make it less than stellar, barring ridiculous point buy or luck for attributes..

Traveler's Cloak. My elven diviner had lived a privileged sheltered life before his sense of noblisse oblige sent him adventuring. The tent, endure elements, and hot tea all made roughing it with his lessers bearable. He was still wearing it when the campaign ended, well after 20th level.

Many divine spells are situational, but when you do need them you need multiple castings, which is exactly when spontaneous casters shine over prepared.

I think revelations are generally much better than domains, and there's the extra revelations feat to get them all. The curse is pretty nifty too, and I love the feel of the class and the variety of the mysteries.

All that and 2 extra skill points, the experimental spellcaster for a word every level, and the human favored class or half-elf paragon exploits, and if anything I think the oracle obsoletes the cleric, barring situations where the delayed spell level really stings.

I consider Experimental Spellcaster for words of power essential for a crossblooded sorcerer, especially a blasty one. There's a nice guide for it around, "thus she spoke" as i recall.

Arcane duelist works. I'd be tempted by sound striker even with its wonky mechanics, but the bonus feats from AD are probably better. I'd also want to go catch of guard and improvised weapon mastery with an adamantine guitar, maybe bladebound magus with the same instead of bard.. think about dragon disciple after bard 7 or 13, for the battle-mode transformation..

In general, increases to Int give you skill points (and starting languages) just like increasing Con gives hit points. The exception is enhancement bonuses. Headbands of Int have an assigned skill per tier that functions as max ranks, this replaces the free skill points you'd otherwise get. Also, there's been a faq or post that the headband should also have assigned languages known as well, but that hasn't been errata'd yet.

While i agree the shield master has a clear RAW vs RAI problem, my group has argued over the +10 cap on shields before and i'd love a clarification, is the shield maxed at +5/+5 or +10/+10.. faq'd both posts..

I'd assume a more primal hunter deal, focusing on full or partial wildshaping, full companion, and severely limited casting if at all.. looking forward to the playtest!

Immune to fatigue at oracle 5, or oracle 1 barb 8. Allowing you to end rage and restart it to use 1/rage abilities. Also will saves and wand use and a revelation at the cost of 1 bab.. also frees you up to get your skilled human racial back possibly..

Cleave would only be useful as a prereq for finishing cleave, so if you only have 1 feat free, definitely stick with witchhunter.. even with another feat, i think ghostrager would be better..

Very different. Not a player vs player conflict, character vs character. In that case, in character conversation letting them know that due to the crisis you all need to work together. That means you won't hassle them on petty theft and racketeering stuff, but they need to avoid blatant murder and terrorism in return. Once the enemy-of-my-enemy truce is done, all bets are off. Argue for a grace period once the mutual threat is done with, but then prepare to be betrayed or betray them yourself.

If that's a no go, and you are outnumbered, the alc fire/ smokestick combo sounds like a good way to ninja vanish, with the option to skirmish and harass them down, or to set up a raid on their guild in reprisal. Alternately, just work with their guildmaster if they would seem more reasonable. Make a deal to have those two taken out by their own guild and delivered to the guard, because mass murder and bioterrorism are bad for business and tainting the guild by association.

The group apparently doesn't have a problem with pvp, many groups don't, doesn't mean they're jerks or bullies.
In fact, it's very possible they're perceiving you as the bully. They're playing thieves and you bring in a guard. One of them flees combat, and you attack them. You didn't say what that entailed, an arrow and a warning, beating and humiliation, or murder. Just because you explain the RP behind you're character's actions, doesn't mean others have to be ok with it, they might not think you're too dangerous to keep around and know too much about them to let you live. You started the pvp, time to live with the consequences.

Still best thing to do is talk it out (try again, discarding the preconception that you're 100% right and he's a stupid jerk), in and out of character.
If they still feel your pc needs to die, +1 to either just taking it, or running away. If you are also vindictive, after running out of their effective range (40'+their double move) try to keep an eye on him from a distance until his spells drop. Then plink away, one or two hits then run away, repeat. To pull that off you'll probably need stealth that's impressive compared to their perception, as they'll have a lot of spells compared to your ki.

You could go for cloak of displacement or perma-blur some other way, letting the miss chance substitute for or enhance your crane riposte, and go moonlight stalker line for free feints once a round. Either full rogue/ninja, MoMS 2 dip for crane (and possibly snake too to add some of the cool hand to hand combos), and/or ranger dip for FE human.
+1 to underhanded and/or assassinate tricks for the easy low profile kills.

For crit fishing, consider a winds oracle 1 level dip. Any time you spellstrike crit you also stagger, and if you dual curse you're a feat away from misfortune reroll happiness.

Air mephit to go along with the theme, and for their perma-blur, eventually for the whole party.

I'd consider dropping the int a smidge to get more con.

I'm guessing one of those splashes is MoMS monk so you can snake and fang. Combat Style Master would save you two swift actions. I'm sure you'd get more help if we knew classes, race, and stats. Additional traits could be useful, rime spell for more bang for your frigid, or elemental spell to get around resists.

Shield slam and greater bull rush is all sorts of fun. If you want to do something else, try bard and/or the steel falcon prestige. First round inspire while your party swarms the enemy, next round bull rush so they all get AoOs..

Simpler fix, make sure you have UMD maxed. Even consider additional traits for dangerously curious or the like to get it higher. Wands are fun for status removal, anti-swarm, utility..

Combine stunning fist with panther or snake or crane, stun on the AoO and dastard on your turn.

Pick up stunning fist at 11, or go vivisectionist/internal alc to get it as a discovery.
Or ignore dastard, and go ninja assassinate instead.
Rogue or whitehairwitch with a familiar UMDing a staff with power word stun?
A quickdraw shield with symbol of stunning on it.

Kingmaker us all about extremes, cakewalks or epic danger, 15 minute workdays or long dungeon crawling..
nothing is better for a caster, especially with summons, than quicken rods, totally take craft rod to crank them out cheap during downtime..

save the summons for when there's more enemy than they can handle, or they can use the flanking bonuses.. they're a tool in your toolbox, no need to use it exclusively when there's other stuff to do.. the rest of the time with this party just haste then relax and have fun..

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