Crosswind's page

So, whenever I DM, I've always followed a rule that I call the Law of Conservation of Awesome.

It's a pretty simple rule: Don't allow things to happen that do not, at a minimum, conserve the total amount of awesome in the party/campaign.

As people play and get invested in their characters, they build up awesome. They create stories, memories, etc - in general, they enjoy playing a character more and more as a result. The campaign benefits from having history between players.

If I'm going to allow a player to die on some sort of permanent basis (either by monsters or by another player), it has to be in such a way that everybody's experiences are improved by more than the campaign loses from losing the character.

If the scenario has been set up to do that, it's ok for the character to die (and the player is cool with it). If not, you should find another approach.

-Cross

There is an item that does that, can't recall the name.

Belt of mighty hurling

-Cross

Some quickies:

Meeting of evil cultists that they can infiltrate - save the human sacrifice (can be done sans killing all cultists)

Snarky talking door that they can diplomacize/trick

Really dumb set of guards.

-Cross

Hey, Cartman - you missed a really important feat for the goblin entry.

Roll With It (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/roll-with-it-combat-goblin) is one of the best 2 or 3 feats in the whole of pathfinder.

It basically lets you negate damage with an acrobatics check _and_ negate melee full-attacks, with easy pre-reqs. It is incredibly good for any ranged character, and very good for any melee character.

-Cross

Here's my plan for beating the Tarrasque:

Step 1. Pass the Test of the Starstone.
Step 2. Persuade Pharasma to give the Tarrasque's soul top priority for judgment the instant it drops below 0hp.
Step 3. Have that gunslinger/two-handed fighter/whoever do his thing.

As for character builds, I recommend plenty of ranks in Diplomacy.

The build I posted in the Beastmass thread kills the Tarrasque, via damage, in...one round? And cannot be hit by the T except on a natural 20, nor grappled, etc?

Most of the other builds (except for One), are just "get my save-or-suck high enough" builds.

-Cross

Even if I trust my doctor, I still ask what the prescribed medicine does so I know what I'm getting into. Mild curiosity about what he is trying to do would let him know if he can more easily lift a boulder or run into arrow fire without worry. Because that is not something you want to mix up.

The wizard would have a very good positionto bluff, but if he is comepletely obvious and "MWUAHAHAHAHA" then even a completely trusting paladin might get a little nervous.

Let's look at what actually happens mechanically, here.

1.) Wizard says "I'm going to buff you, don't resist this." He is lying. He has to roll bluff vs. sense motive.

2.) If sense motive fails, the paladin believes it's a buff spell. Assuming the paladin doesn't spellcraft to identify the spell appropriately, he'll eat it.

2.) Assume the sense motive succeeds, Paladin knows that the wizard is lying to him. He will likely try to resist the spell, as a result.

-Cross

I see a lot of people say Ninja > Rogue.

Sell me on it.

Explain why the Ninja is better. As I see it, the only things Ninja get over Rogue is EWP and an extra attack using Ki. Rogues are up on Evasion and Trapfinding.

They're not much better, if at all. The argument would be: Charisma is a more useful secondary stat than intelligence, because it modifies a whole host of social skills.

And Forgotten Trick is a better talent than anything rogues get.

-Cross

Your problems basically divide into in-game issues and game-surrounding issues.

Game-surrounding issues of people not bringing food:

I, too, cook for my weekly D&D group. I do it mostly because I like cooking. At first, I made all the food. Then, I started leaving obvious holes (Pasta, no garlic bread? HERESY.). And people started volunteering to fill them - somebody will bring some drinks, somebody will bring some bread, etc. Send out an email before game saying "Hey, I'm making X, Y and Z. Can somebody bring A, B, or C?". You'll never break even, really, but it can help.

About using mobile devices:
Look, fact is, there is tons of down-time in D&D, particularly during combat. People are trained to fill that down-time with cell-phone usage these days. It happens. You, as a DM, can combat that by engaging your players a bit more. Find your primary cell-phone users and create a scenario that centers around them.

About people sucking at rules:
Sorry. Pathfinder is a super rules-heavy game. You can do some stuff to mitigate it (spell cards, for instance), make a new character sheet for people who are raging that contains all the modified stats, etc. But fundamentally you're going to run into this problem.

-Cross

Its actually much more carefully crafted than that - Reckless Abandon gives me back the attack bonus I'm losing at the cost of AC and Beast Totem gives me back that AC at the cost of nothing. At the end of the day the net result is all that DR for no loss in attack bonus whatsoever. And I get to use those Imp. DR feats for...

Yeah, I get it. =) But every single barbarian out there takes Reckless Abandon and Beast Totem. So, relative to another barbarian, you're down 6 AB.

Another Barbarian can use that to stun everybody he attacks, and still have 1 AB left.

Basically it comes down to: Barbarians have a ton of really great rage powers and feats to take, and Stalwart/Imp. Stalwart/Guarded Life/Improved Guarded Life/Diehard/Endurance aren't incredibly worth it, relative to other options.

I did say your build was nice, though. Very well-rounded!

-Cross

Dragon disciple would work well for this, and, yes, long term buffs are good.

Heroism, greater magic weapon, freedom of movement, long strider, barkskin

You can build a bard like a fighter. They get the good long-term buffs, as well as the ability to apply buffs as a move action at level 7 (bardsong).

-Cross

ub3r_n3rd wrote:

Yeah just reading the Raging Brutality and I'm thinking it's a complete waste of rage rounds. 3 rage rounds to get a few extra hps of damage? No thanks, I'd rather be able to rage longer.

Seriously?

If he's looking at 9 damage added from Raging Brutality (a raging Con of 22), that's an extra 9 PER HIT on his turn. If you're looking at actually hitting level 16, that's potentially an extra 45 damage for 3 rounds of rage (assuming Haste or a similar +1 attack ability). That's pretty good.

And how many rounds of rage do you NEED anyway? At level 16 you'd be looking at 40/day. Are you really in combat (and in situations where you want the extra Str) for that many rounds each day?

My only beef with the above build is that he's missing out on getting Spell Sunder early. Which is just an incredibly amazing/invaluable/awesome tool in mid to late levels.

Edit:

That is a really commendably smooth build, though. No real power spikes or drop-offs. But think of the price you're paying: The difference between you and an invulnerable rager 20 is that you've spent 5 feat-equivalents (Expertise, Stalwart+Imp., Guarded Life + Imp) and two levels (5 and 20) for the following tradeoff vs. a Barbarian who went straight Invul Rager and picked up Imp. DR 3 times (to your one, making the feat-difference 3)

-6 to all attacks (Combat Expertise)
+7 DR (13/- on the rager, 20/- here)
Some abilities that kick in when you're at 0 health or less.

Given that a barbarian has a surplus of offense, that's probably a smart tradeoff! But I prefer a straighter damage barbarian myself.

-Cross

-Cross

Hey guys I've recently decided to make a Samsaran wizard and I've found out that their Alternate Trait lets me take ( In my case ) 5 spells of my choice. And now I'm here wondering what are the "best" spells I should take? I currently have Overwhelming Presence, Euphoric Tranquility, Haste, Maze, and Summoner Monster VIII. Any tips?

Wizards have by far the best spell list in the game. There's not actually that much you want from summoner/bard/witch. Using them for early access is pretty much the best plan.

The only spells you might want to pick up are:
Glibness (Bard)
Ill Omen (Witch)
Cure Light Wounds (Bard + Witch)
Heal (Witch)

Of the early-access spells, Haste is BY FAR the best.

-Cross (Don't pick up CLW unless you are going to either be crafting or spend a lot of time below level 4.)

Here's a pretty standard build for an amazing healer:

Human Dual-Cursed Oracle of Life (Haunted, Burned)

1.) Fey Foundling, (Extra Channel), Revelation: Channel
3.) Selective Channel, Revelation: Life Link
5.) Quick Channel, Revelation: Misfortune
7.) Healer's Touch (Achievement Feat), Revelation: Combat Healer
9.) Extra Revelation: Energy Body, Revelation: Enhanced Cures
11.) Divine Interference, Revelation: Lifesense

Spells below - level you take them in parentheses

Basic idea:
Life Link transfers 5 damage from any frontliner to you, per round.
Fey Foundling means that your channel energy heals you for an extra 2 per dice.
You can channel as a move action (Quick Channel), cast spells as a standard action, and at level 7, cast cure spells as a swift action a few times a day.

You have a lot of heals, and a channel resource pool, as well as a reasonable array of buff and debuff spells. Because you can spend all your actions efficiently, you almost never need to swing a weapon.

-Cross

May want to pick up the Invulnerable Rager archetype, and:

Raging Brutality
Staggering Critical
Stunning Critical
Improved Critical

into:

Stunning Assault (Talked about above)
Improved Damage Reduction x3

-Cross

DR adds up when you are hit a bunch of times, but I would prefer to not be hit to avoid whatever effect (tripped, poisoned, bleed, etc.) comes with the damage. When attacks miss my AC by 1 or 2 points I feel better about the the AC investment. Of course, having both is pretty awesome too.

Answer's pretty simple (approximated, sans crits, for simplicity):

1.) How often are things hitting you? Call this percentage A.
2.) How much do they hit you for? Call this number B.

Expected damage reduction reduced from Adamantine +1: 2*A
Expected damage reduction reduced from +3: .1*B

if .1*B > 2*A, pick the +3.

My bet would be that monsters probably hit you about half the time or less, and for more than 10 damage, so the +3 is better.

-Cross

Leadership, as mentioned, is problematic.

The goblin feat Roll With It can pretty much make you unkillable.

Antagonize can also be pretty bad.

Aside from those 3 feats, nothing really stands out as total crap.

-Cross

So the questions I'd need to have answered are:

1.) What role in the party am I trying to fill?

2.) Is there anything special (such as a rogue's flanking) that I need to be able to do in order to maximize my capabilities?

Edit: Because, to be honest, Wisdom doesn't do @#$%all for you, feat-wise. Only feats that matter for it are monk-related. Nor are there ranger-spells.

So basically you're asking, "What feats would you take for a melee character with 3/4 BAB and low hit points".

To which I would say: Weapon Focus, Power Attack, etc, are always good.

-Cross

<edited because apparently double post.>

Crossblooded seems like a trap to me.

And on that note, is the Rakshasa bloodline WORTH going down? And how much does it cost to have a trained monkey pet at level 1?

Crossblooded is borderline overpowered as crap.

Particularly if you're a human or another race that can get bonus spells for their favored class bonus.

You are basically trading your favored class bonus for:

An extra bloodline arcana.
Flexibility in choosing your powers: pick the best of both worlds.

------

Rakshasa bloodline isn't that great, overall, while Arcane is one of the best out there.

-Cross

Does this monkey have to to be a Familiar, instead of just being a trained pet?

So, given that you probably have feats to blow, why not pick up Skill Focus: Knowledge (something) and Eldritch Heritage (Arcane)?

That would get you your monkey familiar, and you could happily proceed down the Rakshasa bloodline.

Otherwise, investing in the crossblooded archetype might allow you to go arcane/rakshasa.

-Cross

final *BUMP*

Hey.

Wayang puppeteers aren't great. Here's why:

Inspire Courage is incredibly good.

You trade that away for being a sort of mediocre shadow-summoner, with the advantage that you can summon a loooot of stuff.

Meanwhile, the Summoner can do everything you can do better.

That's pretty much the problem.

Meanwhile, Wizards are generally excellent, and the Shadow spec. of illusion is particularly nice. Shadow Conjuration spells give you all kinds of advantages in terms of tactical flexibility.

I wouldn't go with Wayang puppeteer.

-Cross

Prismatic sphere says "Effect: 10-ft radius sphere, centered on you".

So by rules as written, I'm pretty sure prismatic sphere is not an area spell, as it doesn't specify an area. You cannot cast it on anything, the effect of the spell is always a sphere centered on you.

Antimagic field is very similar, but the difference is that antimagic field says "Area: 10-ft radius emanation centered on you", so it does specify an area.

I'm guessing this wording is deliberately chosen to be uncommon (rather than it just saying "target: you", "range: personal", "effect: 10-ft radius emanation") so that these spells cannot be used with abilities that modify what you can cast spells on normally. For example, this wording prevents you from casting antimagic field on your animal companion (which would be perfect for a sylvan sorcerer otherwise), even though it is a spell that normally only works on yourself.

To be honest, I have no idea what "area spell" means. Your guess/interpretation is pretty reasonable. Arcane Archer is pretty damn awful, so I tend to lean towards an interpretation that allows it to stuff any spell that has some sort of area in there.

But you're probably right.

-Cross

The prismatic sphere bit sounds legitimate to me. It's a 10 foot radius sphere, so it has an area. You should be able to make it land 5 or 10 feet away from the opponent, effectively trapping him within the prismatic sphere or making him eat the set of effects.

I like it. Nice thinking, OP.

-Cross

I like that build a lot, cross, but I'm not sure if lore warden has the flavor I'm looking for... as well I'd like a bit of armor if I'm going to be in the fight, because of my low con, which lore warden doesn't really provide (despite the reach weapon)

Then don't go lore warden. It's hardly essential - just a +4 to your trip/disarm, and free combat expertise. Given that you have a spare feat (which is currently being used on Cleave), it's hardly necessary.

Go straight fighter - it'll work fine.

-Cross

I like the idea, OP, but I believe it does not work by RAW or RAI. Emphasis is mine below.

"Imbue Arrow: At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell's area is centered where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow's range rather than the spell's range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the arcane archer can fire the arrow as part of the casting. The arrow must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the arrow misses, the spell is wasted."

From Prismatic Wall: "A prismatic wall spell cast to materialize in a space occupied by a creature is disrupted, and the spell is wasted."

The argument would go as follows:
1.) By the wording of Imbue Arrow, the area of Prismatic wall is centered where the spell lands.

2.) By the wording of Prismatic Wall, the spell is going to materialize in a space occupied by a creature. ...but can we disrupt the spell?

3.) Because casting and shooting are part of the same action, we sure as hell can disrupt the spell.

Ergo, the casting is disrupted.

----------

You could make this logic tougher to apply if you managed to cast as one action, and then shoot as part of another action. But this is tricky to do.

-Cross

Here's a human Lore Warden build that makes some use out of your charisma.

Using the Guisarme and a spike gauntlet:

LW 1: WF: Guisarme, Power Attack, Cleave
LW 2: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
LW 3: Cornugon Smash
LW 4: Combat Reflexes
LW 5: Fury's Fall
LW 6: Greater Trip
LW 7: Felling Smash
LW 8: Leadership or Improved Critical or Greater Weapon Focus. Swap out Cleave to get 2 out of these 3.

Basic Idea: We are going to make like 99% of enemies get tripped, which is about the most annoying combat maneuver in the game.

Our CMB is: 8 (BAB) + 2 (str) + 2 (dex) + 4 (Lore Warden) + 4 (Trip/Greater Trip) + 2 (Guisarme) +1 (Weapon Training) = +23.

Pick up a belt of physical perfection+2 (A must-have, because all of your physical stats are mediocre), and that goes to +25.

Pick up a +2 weapon, and that goes to +27.

If you somehow manage to get gloves of dueling, it's +29.

So you're going to be good at tripping. Let's talk about how we use that charisma:

You're going to be power-attacking all the time, because you can afford to. Cornugon Smash means that you get to intimidate anybody who you hit, with your gigantic charisma, so a lot of people are going to be Demoralized.

------

That'd be my suggestion for a control-based fighter that uses your charisma a bit.

-Cross

Ive notice that when talking about Sorcerers people will automatically count out the Air/Djinni Bloodlines. Why is this?

Basically, what you're seeing is:

There are a lot of sorc bloodlines. People only talk about the absolute best.

Djinni is not among these because its bloodline arcana (anything becomes electricity) isn't very useful, nor are any of its abilities. A ray that's marginally better than Ray of Frost, electricity resistance, a 1/day whirlwind, and Fly at 15th level isn't very good.

Not sure what the air bloodline is, to be honest.

okay i have a question, the point buy is 20

right now my characters ability is going to be

8, 18, 12, 10, 14, 8

im considering bumping cha down to 7 and moving con up to 13 (then increasing it to 14 at 4th level) but i want to know what are the idealistic effects on my character

whats the difference between a 8 CHA and a 7 CHA in terms of character, my character is supposed to be shy and anti social, what would this mean for him?

Short answer: Don't do it. Unless you plan to not get to 8th level, put that 4th level stat boost in dex, sir.

The con ain't worth it.

-Cross

The deadly dealer feat says each card is destroyed upon use. Can you throw durable arrows, or make the cards durable in some way?

You probably want rapid shot over TWF, because it allows you to use the same weapon for both attacks, which lets you leverage your weapon bond as an Arcane Duelist.

-Cross

First, this is going to end hilariously. An ex-boyfriend DM who is weird around you. This is not going to work.

Second, the "Just pick a character whose physical stats get replaced and dump dex" plan is also pretty legit.

Synthesist with 2 dex works great here.

-Cross

Can you give us some idea of what role you'd like to play in the party, then? And we'll turn that into a build and some suggestions for ya.

So long as you have 1 decent stat, there is a measure of hope. =)

-Cross

So my DM has a specific setup for rolling stats and among this setup I pbtained the following stats.

16
12
11
10
11
2

Yes, your eyes didn't decieve you. It's literally a 2 on the ability score. I inquired to my DM if I can re-roll stats cause the average party level is 12, and my modifiers aren't even equal to half of our level. He has issues with me cause of our past so he essentially told me no re rolls. So these are the stats I'm stuck with.

Getting into the specifics of how this occured is unimportant, what is however is he wants us all to play some sort of wildkin. so Catfolk, Tengu, Ratfolk, which all take a -2 to a specific score depending on race.

So among races in classes (Pathfinder mind you) I am trying to figure out what in the heck should I play. I thought of a Tengu Alchemist with an Internal Alchemist Archetype but I am literally at a lost, and any kind of advice would be appreciated.

Well, a 2 means you're basically arbitrarily bad at something. Top stat at 16 means you're only going to be particularly good at once thing.

Let's first look at the most crucial thing: Where is that dump stat going?

If you put it in con, dex, or wisdom, you are screwing a save pretty amazingly.

If you put it in strength, you will not be able to carry anything. In int, you will have 1 skill point.

So, my unlucky-in-dice friend, I would play a wizard, probably ratfolk.

Wizards don't really depend on stats (they need one high one), they depend on player skill.

You'll end up with 9 strength, 14 dex, 11 con, 10 wisdom, 18 intelligence, and 2 charisma.

You will be smelly and disliked. But you will be smart, useful, etc.

That'd be my recommendation.

-Cross (Caveat: I suck at alchemists, that may be a good option, but feels like they rely too much on actually hitting stuff, which you will not be able to do.)

I assume you are using point buy and letting players rejig their stats?

Honestly I'd allow a grace period for players with new characters to adjust their character choices if they feel that it's not working. So long as the players are not abusing the system and constantly fiddling with their characters then I see no problem.

Basically a situation of "I've made an error in creating this character, can I alter it so it's more fun" is fine. A situation of "hmmmm, these bad guys are using mind effecting effects, time to boost my Wisdom" is not fine.

Does everybody involved want it to happen? if so, why not?

-Cross

I will have to agree on

1st-Hero's Defiance,Divine Favor.And Swift Girding is a life saving spell for a Paladin and probably the group.

2nd-Litany of Litany of Righteousness, Paladin's Sacrifice. NOT remove Paralysis.You do not have that many spells to waste one on that.You can get scrolls.

3rd-Deadly Juggernaut for massive combats, Sanctify Armor for boss like fights.I still Wont agree on Remove Curse-Remove Blindness/Deadness especially when there are chances for you to take more levels on the Cleric side.

4th- IT really depends on how you play up to this level.But if you do not have a Holy weapon, Holy Sword is a stable choice as Crosswind and Angel already pointed out.

Dragomir's right that you can just get scrolls of situational stuff.

To be honest, last time I played a paladin was before they introduced the Litany spells, which give a paladin the ability to happily spam away his spells for damage. Thus my affection for situational spells; I had plenty of spell slots.

-Cross

I have a level 5 Paladin/1 cleric, chose grease for level obe spells, but wasn't sure what to do with the other three levels, plus generalized advice on Paladin spell choices.

For unsanctioned knowledge, you'd have a tough time arguing against heroism, haste, and freedom of movement at 2,3,4.

Other than that:

1.) Lesser Restoration, Liberating Command, Word of Resolve
2.) Paladin's Sacrifice, Remove Paralysis
3.) Deadly Juggernaut, Remove Curse, Remove Blindness/Deafness
4.) Holy Sword, Litany of Vengeance.

Basically, as a paladin, your normal attacks are great. So if you're going to cast a spell it had better either be:
1.) A swift/immediate action
2.) A pre-combat buff
3.) A oh-holy-god-this-saves-somebody spell

-Cross

Hey OP. Joanna's got it right - I'm going to take their idea and nail it down a bit, feat-wise.

I would go:

14/16/12/10/14/8 -> 10/18/10/10/14/8 afer racial adjustments.

I would go straight monk for a bit, into Quinggong monk, because it's eventually quite nice.

Master of Many Styles isn't wildly worth it. Flurry is nice and not worth giving up.

Monk 1: Weapon Finesse, (Dodge)
Monk 2: (Crane Style)
Monk 3: Piranha Strike
Monk 4: Trade Slow Fall for Bark skin. +1 stat boost goes to dex.
Monk 5: Crane Wing

Buy an amulet of mighty fists. Get it to +1 agile when it's convenient. Buy a ton of AC boosting items.

At level 1, your AC is going to be: 10+1(size)+4(dex)+1(dodge)+2(wis)+1(kobold) = 19. Which is pretty great.

At level 5, if you spend your 10500 gold on:
Ring of Protection +1 (2k)
Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 (4k)
Bracers of Armor +1 (2k)
Belt of Dex +2 (4k) <--ok, slightly over.

Your AC is: 10+1(size)+5(dex) + 1(kobold) + 2(barkskin) + 1(deflection)+1(armor) + 2(wisdom) + 1 (monk) + 4 (fighting defensively) = 29.

Nothing has a chance in hell of hitting you, and if they do, you can Crane Wing the attack.

You do reasonable damage with flurry of blows and piranha strike, though your attack bonus is a bit weak; don't fight defensively unless something has a chance of hitting AC 25.

To continue the build, pick up Crane Riposte and Combat Reflexes when you can. And then pretty much whatever you want.

-Cross

calagnar wrote:

At level 10 unless your above a 35 AC it means nothing. Most things with a CR 10 have over a +20 to hit. Unless it's a caster. Light armor is worth more as it lest you keep evasion. And at this level that will mitigate more damage then 9 points of AC.

Example
Fire Giant CR 10
Melee greatsword +21/+16/+11 (3d6+15) or 2 slams +20 (1d8+10)

I am very well acquainted with the mechanics of high-level AC. At low levels AC can entirely negate attacks, but by that same token, you don't deal with multiple attacks at low levels, typically. Because attack bonuses rise to the point where they can usually hit you once, regardless, many people undervalue AC at high levels.

The purpose of AC at higher levels is to mitigate the impact of full attacks, not negate them outright.

+16 vs AC 29 requires a roll of 13 to hit.
vs AC 20 it only needs a roll of 4. That's a huge difference.

+11 vs 29, needs a roll of 18.
vs 20, a roll of 9.

By using that example you proved my point.

Also note that I have a minor cloak of displacement, granting always on 20% concealment against attacks.

At level 8, my builds were at 36 AC. Pretty sure that by level 10 they'll be at 40 (29k more magic items, a feat, a rogue talent, and an extra sneak attack die). Also, they have 2 built in ways to negate melee attacks that manage to hit.

Rogues can tank.

-Cross

I had snake style in my build above, but it turns out to be a bit of a trap for people with legitimately high AC at mid levels.

You have to use an immediate action to declare Snake Style before you know the results of the attack. So you have to have a reasonable expectation that 10+sense motive > your AC. (...significantly greater, also)

Check the number. The level 8 rogue I posted had an AC of 32.

To get a +22 sense motive check at level 8, you have a base (8+3)=11 - you have to pick up +11 to sense motive via feats and stat points.

And to make snake style WORTH it, you have to get your check decently over 11.

That's actually hard to do, and turns out to be a waste of feats.

Crane style is, in the end, much better.

-Cross

It's only 1 level of monk. If you want the full rogue version, here it is.

Stats: 14/20/14/10/10/5

Rogue 1.) Weapon Finesse
Rogue 2.) (Dodge)
Rogue 3.) Roll with it
Rogue 4.) (Ninja Trick: Style Master: Crane Style), +1 dex
Rogue 5.) Two-Weapon Fighting or Dervish Dance
Rogue 6.) (Offensive Defense)
Rogue 7.) Crane Wing
Rogue 8.) ROGUE TRICK OF YOUR CHOICE., +1 dex

Re-itemize a bit:
Celestial Armor (23k)
+1 Weapon (2k)
+1 Cloak (1k)
+1 Ring (2k)
+1 Amulet (2k)
+2 Dex boots (4k)

And your AC is: 10 + 7(dex) + 8 (Celestial Armor) + 1 (ring) + 1(amulet) + 1 (dodge) +4 (fighting Defensively) = 32.

Pretty much exactly the same as the monk build. Down-side is that your saves are a bit worse, and you don't get to flurry for free.

The big enablers of this build are as follows:
1.) Celestial Armor is outrageously good.
2.) All 3 feats in Crane Style are REALLY GOOD for defense.
3.) Roll with It is really good.

If you combine 2 and 3 with basic AC optimization, and add in Offensive Defense, you're going to get a character who is really hard to ever hit, and will pretty much never die from physical attacks.

-Cross

Ok. Let me take a crack at this.

Thump the Goblin
Goblin Monk (1), Rogue X

Stats: 12-2/16+4/14/10/15/7-2 = 10/20/14/10/15/5

Feats:
Monk 1.) (Weapon Finesse), Roll With It
Rogue 1/Monk 1.)
Rogue 2/Monk 1.) (Ninja Trick: Style Master: Crane Style), Dodge
Rogue 3/Monk 1.) +1 Wisdom
Rogue 4/Monk 1.) (Offensive Defense), FEAT OF YOUR CHOICE
Rogue 5/Monk 1.)
Rogue 6/Monk 1.) (Ninja Trick: Style Master: Crane Wing), FEAT OF YOUR CHOICE
Rogue 7/Monk 1.) +1 dex

--------
Alright. Let's break down what we just did here.

At level 7, I should have about 33k. We're going to buy:
Ring of Protection +1 (2k)
Bracers of Armor +2 (4k)
+1 Amulet of Mighty Fists
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2k)
Belt of Dex+2 (4k)
Belt of Wis+2 (4k)
Monk's Belt

Which is 33k

Relevant Skills:
Acrobatics (8 ranks + 3 (class skill) + 6 dex) = +16

So our AC is:
10 (base) + 6 (dex) + 4 (wis) + 1(dodge) +1 (Monk belt) + 1 (deflection) + 2(armor) + 1 (natural armor) +4 (Fighting Defensively) +1 (small)= 31

So, 31 AC at level 8 is incredibly good. And we only take a -2 penalty for fighting defensively thanks to crane style. But let's look at how OUTRAGEOUSLY DIFFICULT it is to hit us.

1.) If we sneak attack somebody, our AC against them is 35.
2.) Every round we can pick one attack that would hit us, and instantly negate it via Crane Wing.
3.) If some jackass manages to hit us twice (HOW DARE THEY.), we can always Roll With It: On average, we can dodge a hit that's 21 damage or less. And they don't get to attack us again, because we're far away.

Plus, you have evasion and decent saves from having dex and wisdom maxed, with 1 level in monk. Also, you get to do d8 base damage from monk's belt, which is pretty great, and you get flurry for free.

You can do it out by level, but pretty much from level 1 (Where your AC is...10+1+2+5+1 = 17 and you can Roll With It to evade any hit of up to 15 damage, on average) you're incredibly hard to hit.

From there, you gain about 2 AC per level, and at level 3, when you start fighting defensively all the time (because it's -2/+4), nothing close to your level can hit you.

------------
That's how I'd do a tank rogue. It's pretty badass.

-Cross

Your level 5 ninja has probably about 5 (2+charisma, ish) times a day he can turn invisible.

While pathfinder isn't super clear that invis grants flat-footed, 3.5 was: "If you’re successfully hidden with respect to another creature, that creature is flat-footed with respect to you. That creature treats you as if your were invisible."

But that was in the Rules Compendium. I don't see any particular reason that PF would go against this. Invis, therefore, is a legit way to flat-foot people.

Fundamentally, the solution here is pretty simple: Run a lot more than 5 rounds of encounters per day. 3 combats should be about 12 rounds of encounters. The PF adventuring day is typically 6 encounters, which is about 20-25 rounds of encounters.

Pathfinder is balanced around that adventuring day. Make encounters dramatically shorter and your nova characters (who can use limited resources to be hyper-effective) are going to be more powerful.

-Cross

You could have a look through this thread. That has a couple of level 20 characters designed to kill the 7 toughest monsters in the bestiary single-handedly. I'd recommend you to skip through most of the first page, the proper builds start somewhere around the bottom of the first page, before then it's mostly complaints about the OPs build.

In general, I'd say you want at least one save-or-suck specialist who specializes in insane DCs and incredible initiative and a couple of melee or ranged specialists with unhittable AC and saves and insane damage. A perception specialist might be worthwhile as well.

Agree with Soup. The synthesist I have in there should more or less be able to solo the entire thing. For bonus points pick up a scroll of Spellbane and cast it on yourself to make yourself immune to AMF.

-Cross

Glad this got bumped into the present day, had not read it before. Very useful for me. Gave me some insights on a few spells and feats I had not considered, even if I did not agree 100% with everything.

The one nit I want to pick with this Guide, is at the end when you highlighted multiclass/prestige class options. You did not list Arcane Archer, which I believe the bard is an ideal choice as the base class.

1) Bard meets the requirements for arcane spells, with better BAB than other arcane casters.
2) As pointed out, a bard is usually a MAD build. Being an archer with a composite bow allows you to make the most out of those spread out ability scores.
3) Obviously an AA bard is not going to be caster dominant, but bard offers very good buffs to compliment the archer.
4) AA with its arrow enhancements (+1 magic, flame, frost, shock etc) gives the bard some spell-like damage options that his spells normally do not.
5) The imbue arrow allows many bard spells to be "cast" at greater range.
6) While AA does not give the bard +1 caster levels on every level, it does give full BAB, which upgrades the Bard's combat ability.

One of the options that you suggested for a bard is to be proficient with a bow, and bow feats. AA seems to be a natural fit.

I suspect the reason it is not included is because, while bard is a good way to get into AA, going into AA isn't very worth it for a bard.

You lose out on spell progression and song progression, and Bards don't have a ton of good spells for imbue arrow.

-Cross

What race would you make this character? Still go with human and take Tribal Scars (or Toughness), or will another race work better?

By burned curse, do you mean blackened? Why not just go with Haunted and Tongues? Haunted seems much less impeding that Blackened.

Also, I don't think Spirit Boost will work with channels because it specifically says spells.

Damn, this is my 5th time editing this post. I don't want to go the dual-cursed route because I don't want to lose the mystery bonus spells from the Life mystery, particularly the Restorations and Breath of Life. I don't think exchanging those for some lackluster options from dual-cursed is worth 1 extra revelation (PFS character so I will only be getting to level 12).

I'd go human. The human favored class option will mean that you always have plenty of spells known, so losing them from Dual Cursed is no problem. The Life Revelations are REALLY GOOD.

Haunted and Tongues are fine.

You could either use the human bonus feat to pick up Toughness, or Extra Channels, or Extra Revelation. I love the following revelations:

Channeling
Life Link
Spirit Boost
Combat Healer

The following are also good, but not as _amazing_ as the above:
Safe Curing
Energy Body
Enhanced Cures

---------
Without Dual Cursed or Extra Revelation, you get 4 out of those 7.

With both (going human), you get 6 out of those 7.

Thus my general love for dual-cursed and human.

-Cross

...stuff

(Edit: I was totally wrong on my criticism, so I edited it out. You can totally have a million channel pools going)

I think there's a simpler way to do it. Go straight oracle of life, dual-cursed (tongues + burned)

Build:
1.) Fey Foundling, Revelation(Channeling)
3.) Selective Channel, Revelation (Life Link)
5.) Extra Channel, Revelation (Spirit Boost -> Make sure this works with channeling)
7.) Quick Channel, Revelation (Combat Healer)

So, a couple things of note here:
1.) You've retained full oracle casting. This is Good.
2.) At level 7, you can still pull off a swift-action heal (using CLW), a move action heal (Quick Channel) and a standard action heal. Or some combination thereof and a spell.
3.) If you end up over-healing anybody (frequently a thing with channel), Spirit Boost gives 'em temp HP.

-Cross (Nice and simple, still as effective)

I'm with Cyrad. Pick it up every single level. Spells known is vastly more valuable.

For what it's worth, here's the spell list for my bard, and the levels I took them at, in parentheses. An arrow (->) means that I swap it out later.

0: Ghost Sound (1), Prestidigitation(1), Detect Magic(1), Summon Instrument(1), Message (2), Dancing Lights (3)
1: Silent Image(1), Cure Light Wounds(1), Grease(1)->Liberating Command(5), Vanish (2), Saving Finale(2), Solid Note (3), Triple Time (3) Feather Fall(7)
2: Silence (4), Gallant Inspiration(4), Heroism(5)->Acute Senses(8), Blistering Invective(5), Glitterdust (6), Mirror Image (6)
3: HASTE(7), GOOD HOPE, Sculpt Sound (8), Glibness (8), Elysian Heart (9), Arcane Concordance or Purging Finale (9),
4: VIRTUOSO PERFORMANCE (10), Dimension Door (10), Dance of 100 Cuts (11), Infernal Bargain (11), Freedom of Movement/Modify Memory/Treasure Stitching(12, 12)

The following is my logic:

1st level: Silent Image and Grease are the two best pound-for-pound utility and AOE debuff spells. Having Cure Light Wounds at level 1 is frequently a life-saver - it's the only time a cure spell may cure half somebody's HP.
2: Now looking for situationally great spells. Vanish and Saving Finale fit.
3: Solid Note is just fun. Pick up bardic masterpiece Triple Time with a bonus spell, because it's an excellent buff and costs very little.
4.) Silence is situationally amazing. But I need a spammable spell, so that's Gallant Inspiration. It falls off in use later on, but from 4-7 you will use it all the time, and it's still fun to have later on for skill checks.
5.) Liberating Command is now more useful than Grease, so we swap it out. Heroism and Blistering Invective are spectacular buff/debuff spells, respectively. Both are best-in-breed for level 2 spells - I didn't take them at level 1 because neither is spammable, and I have very limited action resources.
6.) Glitterdust and Mirror Image. If I was the only caster, I would have picked up Glitterdust earlier. Both are great spells.
7.) Haste and Good Hope are no-brainers here.
8.) Glibness is one of the most overpowered spells in the game. Sculpt Sound is spectacular if creatively used. So I take them. Also, because I have good hope, which does not stack with Heroism (and I'm picking up flagbearer and banner of the ancient kings as feat/item), I'm swapping out Heroism for Acute Senses, a great utility spell.
9.) Symphony of the Elysian Heart masterpiece. It's freedom of movement without a spell slot. Amazing. Also, pick up Purging Finale or Arcane Concordance. The latter if you have a lot of casters who buff, the prior otherwise.
10.) Virtuoso Performance is the first thing in the game which allows you to stack bardic performances. Dimension door is just really good. I have never regretted having it.
11.) Dance of 100 cuts makes you an adequate meleer. Legato of the Infernal Bargain masterpiece is a nice planar ally spell.
12.) Pick 2 of 3. I thought all were useful: FoM, Modify Memory, Treasure Stitching.

---------------------

Those are my decisions and explanation. In general, I look to have the following, at each level:

1.) 1 spell that I know I can use basically infinite times if need be. This ensures that I can end the day having actually gotten the most out of resources
2.) A spell or two that's going to be SUPER useful in limited circumstances.
3.) A good mix of buffing, utility, debuffing, and CC.

-Cross

Choon wrote:

I'm not sure, honestly. As you're not going for optimal I'd say take it whenever you feel it appropriate. With that backstory it sounds like he already qualifies (by fluff)

I think I would wait just because 3rd lvl spells seems like it would be very useful.

As a side note, you are my hero. Every time I try to present a Chronicler concept on here there is a resounding "you will suck" from everyone. You have bucked the trend and given me hope that I will also, one day, have deep pockets. :)

i am currently playing a cavalier 5 (inspiring commander archetype) chronicler 4. the two synergize ridiculously well (my aid another bonus is a +9)

You want 3rd level bard spells, but mostly you want move-action Inspire Courage. Agree with the Bard 7/Chronicler X guys.

-Cross

(I should also note that, if you make it to level 13 or 16, Chronicler actually becomes _super freaking good_. Inspire Action says it's a special use of bardic music. So it you may, like bardic music, be able to do it as a move or swift action. If you can spend a swift to give an allied mage a standard, they could chuck off 3 spells (Yours, theirs, quickened) a round, which is siiiick.)

Crosswind wrote:

Thaliak wrote:

For example, you might cast it to let the party wizard get two powerful spells off in the first round of combat

Totally, if that was allowed with Heroic Finale. Can't cast spells with that standard. Tragedy.

The blue 4th level spells for a bard are: Dance of 1000 cuts, Dimension Door, and Virtuoso Performance.

-Cross

I'm not sure why you say it can't be used for a spell

Heroic Finale wrote:

You must have a bardic performance in effect to cast this spell. With a flourish, you immediately end the performance, and one creature within range affected by your bardic performance can make a move action or a standard action of their choice.

It says nothing about restricting the standard action.

Argh, sorry. I confused Heroic Finale for the Requiem of the Fallen Priest-King masterpiece ("When you perform this masterpiece, you gain the ability to spend a swift action to perform a nonmagical action that normally requires a move action or a standard action.")

...I am dense. >_<

-Cross

Thank you all for the advice, it was helpful.

Some important advice:

1.) Discordant Voice, at level 11, is a must-take.

2.) Don't trade a feat for Dance of 23 Steps. Take the human favored class bonus to learn extra spells/level. Trade one of those spells for Dance of 23 Steps. Great Success.

3.) Use the trick in (2) to also pick up Symphony of the Elysian Heart and Triple Time bardic masterpieces.

4.) You're not getting enough mileage out of the mental perfection headband. Specifically, you don't need the wisdom and intelligence, and you barely need the charisma. Trade it for a charisma item, and save yourself 12,000 gold.

5.) Use that 12,000 to pick up: Amulet of natural armor +2 (8k), ring of protection +1 (2k) - now your AC is 24.

6.) +2 for Clustered Shots. In (2), I picked you up a feat. Use it for clustered shots. =)

7.) Using a longbow over a shortbow, mechanically, isn't super worth it. If you want to do it for style, knock yourself out. You're gaining 1 damage per attack per feat. For comparison, Arcane Strike will do better for you.

-Cross

Dennis Baker wrote:

Since you are looking at core summoner... consider the half-orc "Blood God Disciple" from the ARG, it has a few more melee oriented class features. Not sure how well that would translate if you are multi-classing out at 8th level.

They all appear to be eidolon related and the eidolon will stop progressing after you leave the class. I think master summoner is really the way to go. You get far enough to get 1d3 lantern archons before you leave the class and with their ranged touch energy attacks they will continue to accomplish something up to pretty high levels. The master summoner can nova them against big stuff with problematic AC.

If a level 8 eidolon can remain useful in a mount role for the whole game standard looks better.

Synthesist summoner is pretty much the best dimensional dervish class ever.

-Cross