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Gorilla

Cornielius's page

350 posts. Alias of niel.


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You get no skills or skill bonuses particular to the shape from wild shape.
You can only get what the spell your are using gives you.
Your skills do not change, though the stat bonus to them may- if the shape alters a stat.
You must also make any adjustments to a skill based upon your new size. (fly is affected, as is stealth, and possibly some others)

And you take size adjustments into account for CMB, CMD, attack bonuses, and AC mofifiers.


except for the dire ape bite damage while also using a weapon.

1d6 + (1/2 str bonus of +6) so 1d6 +3

Of course, if you were Fighter 10/druid 6 with shaping focus, you could use large earth elemental shape for a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty on your Dexterity, a +2 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus.

Instead of 1 bite, your secondary attacks would be 2 slams at +16, damage of 2d6 + 3. (slams don't use limbs as far as we can tell)


Orfamay Quest wrote:

Cornielius wrote:

The problem is that this ability does not specify what happens when you and your wild shape form are different sizes
Well, since this is mythic, and therefore suppose to be overpowered, I would suggest it's in the spirit of things to allow you to mix and match sizes to your benefit as well. A human-sized head on a dire tiger's shoulders would look odd, but the dire tiger would still be Large and still have the reach associated with a tiger's claws. The human head wouldn't have a tiger's fangs, though, so no Large-sized carnivore bite attack.

The difficulty comes when your halfling druid uses this to go Elasmosaurus and then uses the tail attack in halfling form.

Is it still a huge tail attack with a reach of 20 ft or does the tail match the size of the halfling?


Natural attacks and weapon attacks are considered completely seperately, except for the can't-use-same-limb-for-both clause.

If a dire ape starts with two claw attacks and 1 bite and you had a BAB of 10, you could:
-make three natural attacks as primary attacks (+10, +10, +10)
-make 2 melee attacks with a two handed weapon (+10/+5) and 1 bite as a secondary attack (+5)
-make two weapon attacks with a 1-handed weapon (+10/+5), and make 1 claw attack and 1 bite - both as secondary attacks (+5, +5)

The feats two weapon combat and multi attack would alter these choices.
Multiattack would reduce the modifier for secondary attacks from -5 to -2.
Two weapon combat would modify your normal iterative attacks as normal.

edit; ninja'd several times- I don't type that quickly, it seems.


If you really want to get wild, check out this from the 1st tier guardian abilities from mythic:

Partial Transformation (Su): You have refined control over your transformation ability.
When using wild shape, you can expend one use of mythic power to only partially transform into or out of animal form.
For example, you could transform your hands into tiger claws and your head into a tiger's head (giving you low-light vision and scent, and allowing you to make claw and bite attacks but still wear armor and use worn magic items normally), transform into a deinonychus with human hands (allowing you to still manipulate objects and wear rings), or transform into a constrictor snake with a humanoid head (allowing you to speak and cast spells with verbal components).
You may make one such change per round as a free action for the duration of that use of wild shape.
For example, if you change into a tiger, this ability allows you to partially transform yourself from tiger form to your normal form and back as needed until the duration ends or you fully return to your normal form.
You must have the wild shape class feature to select this ability.

The problem is that this ability does not specify what happens when you and your wild shape form are different sizes.


From the PFSRD:
Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet).
These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal).
You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus.
Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks).
If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.

Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings.
Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5.
These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls.

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack.
For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword.
When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls.
Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.


Animal growth wouldn't work on a wild shaped druid for two reasons.
Wild shape works under the polymorph rules which prohibits any size increase spells from working on a polymorphed creature.
Animal growth only works on animals and wild shape does not change your type to animal.

Shaping focus would help out your plan as it would allow a fourth level druid to count as an eigth level druid ( with at least 4 levels of fighter ) allowing the use of elemental shapes, giving more uses of wild shape per day, and increasing the duration of each wild shape.
10 levels of fighter, than 6 levels of druid would put you at 16th level before you could use your signature tactic.
You might consider fighter 4, then druid 4 with shaping focus instead. Then go fighter till you have all the feats you want.

If your GM allowed a dire ape to use weapons, which is not a given, you would use your regular BAB to determine your attacks.
You could use natural attacks in addition to your iterative attacks, as secondary attacks, as long as you had not used the body part previously.
(If you used your arms to make glaive attacks, you could not then use claws to attack, though a bite would still be available.)

Remember you would need the wild enchantment on your humanoid armor or have barding made for your animal form.
Feats such as wild speech would also help if you plan to spend much time in wild shape form.


Ninja has the talents unarmed combat training and weapon training to help out.
Pressure points and bleeding attack would stack more on top of the sneak attack.
Flanking and flatfooted would help you get the grapple off.

Combat maneuvers says "Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll."

Grapple takes a standard action, so with flat-footed or flanked opponents, you're giving up the initial sneak attack for grapple then adding sneak attack damage.
Possibly the build would work with a later level focus on grappling- waiting till you build up acrobatics to get past the front line to focus on casters? Vanish trick would also help with this.

edit: maybe a set of ninja twins with teamwork feats to help them get the grapples off?


"Far in the north, there is an isolated village of weres, living in harmony with their inner selves and the world.
I was just another boy in the town, but everyone liked me and my best friend was the chieftain's son.
We did everything together, even falling for the same girl.
He thought she should be his, but she chose me.
When she told me of our coming child, I shared my joy with him.
He raged over it, losing control, and killed her.
Then he ran.
I went after him.
I didn't wait for his father's judgment- he'd always spoiled his son and I didn't know if he would be able to condemn his only son to the death he deserved.
It took awhile- he traveled fast.
I eventually found him a few miles from here.
He ambushed me on the road.
We fought, him taunting me, me striking for the kill.
He went down first, but before he died, he screamed it wasn't over.
His own children would come for me.
Now he's dead and I have my vengeance, but it's hollow.
My love is dead, I can't go home, and I've learned he left spawn throughout his travels.
My peoples consider such children both an abomination and our responsibility.
All I can think to do is, one more time, clean up after my best friend-my worst enemy.
If I can, I may be able to return to my family and village and regain my home.
If I can't, at least I'll be too busy to think of my lost love and the child that never was."

"Barkeep, I tell you to ask you this.
Have you heard of any monsters in the area?
Or anyone hunting werewolves?"


d% means percentile dice, giving a result of 01 to 00 (100).

This refers to rolling 2 ten sided dice, and reading one as the ten's digit, the other as the one's digit.


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on the topic of action economy:

From Mythic:
Natural Spell Feat (Mythic)

You can speak and use some magic items when you use wild shape.

Prerequisite: Natural Spell.

Benefit: When you're using wild shape, you can use spell completion and spell trigger magic items that were on your person when you changed form. You don't need to physically manipulate the items when you use them while using wild shape. Furthermore, you can speak normally when using wild shape.

Now I can use some items without drawing them or even using hands.
And tell you how cool i am while doing it.


Ranger, for full BAB.
Add heavy armor feat.
Take two-handed style.
(Two-Handed Weapon: If the ranger selects two-handed weapon style, he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Cleave, Power Attack, Pushing Assault, and Shield of Swings. At 6th level, he adds Furious Focus and Great Cleave to the list. At 10th level, he adds Dreadful Carnage and Improved Sunder to the list.)

shield of swings boost AC, pushing assualt gives some control, dreadful carnage gives morale attack.

I personally love a wild shape focused druid, but AC can be a problem.
A Warden seems more of a fighter-with-bennies to me, anyway, but I'm not that familiar with 4th ed.


Off topic (also do not try this at home)

In a 2nd Ed game, our DM had us find 'Troll Coins", a dwarven concoction.

Remember those dried sponges that grow and take the shape of animals or sonething?
Picture the same thing with trolls.

If you added water to these dried out, coin sized objects, they would become full sized trolls- full sized hungry trolls.

I kept trying to throw the coins and a flask of water into each dungeon room and then close the doors. Let the monsters fight it out.


From the FAQ:
The animal shaman archetypes for the druid class do not gain wild shape until class level 6.

So your concept will not have access to any wildshaping with only 4 levels of druid. And I believe natural spell has preq. of wildshape.

With totem tranformation youu get access to rake, but not pounce or grab.

Also, pounce gives you all your attacks on a charge, so 2 claws and a bite.
You have grab, so can attempt a grapple with each successful attack.

Rake (Ex) A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature's description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can't begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.

Rake only comes in if you start your turn already grappling. (though I remembered it as getting a rake when you get a successful grab- which the bolded says no to).

So you may need to make a few alterations to your concept.


Have you looked at inquisitor, from the APG?

Good mix of powers: 3/4 BAB, able to use clerical spells, access to a domain (sort of), access to a customizable bane enchantment on your weapons, etc.

All with out that kill-me-I'm-a-Paladin aura.

And the downside of going evil is, in Ravenloft, you're garunteed to have a bigger bad nearby (who probably isn't looking for competition).


Another druid only spell is quench (druid 3rd).

I could see a build with a heavy emphasis on using quench because of this line:
Each creature with the fire subtype within the area of a quench spell takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d6, no save allowed).
And the area is a 20' cube per caster level.

I like playing druids, but this isn't a spell I usually keep on hand.
Last game, however, I had it ready because I expected my party to set the building on fire.
Instead we had a fight with a whole bunch of fire subtypes.
Hardest part was waiting till all of them were in the room.

Now I want to go hunting red dragons.


Nope, I was wrong.
Wildshape is a supernatural effect.

Core says wrote:
Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.

But it does follow the rules for a polymorph spell.


Core says wrote:
This ability functions like the beast shape I spell

Wild shape is a polymorph effect and does not allow an additional spell to increase your size.

However, the strong jaw spell does work, as it gives the effect of a larger natural attack, but does not change the size of the natural attack.

Also I was not aware that any polymorph effect changes the target's type.
Not even form of the dragon.
What am I missing?

edit: ninja'd
and yes, dispell magic could work on wildshape.


Actually, weapon focus has weapon proficiency as a prerequisite.


OK, I see.

It was a jump to 6d8 from improved natural attack, then a second jump from strong jaw to 8d8.

I missed that there were two effects increasing the size of the attack.

Is there a need for a FAQ as to whether the two effects stack?
I would think they did, since each was from a different source.


This is ths attack progression I found under natural attaks (and the one I've used with the strong jaw spell):
1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 4d6

I would put the progression at 4d8 8d6 8d8 etc.

So how does 4d8 become 8d8?


from the FAQ
Trip: When a prone character stands up and provokes an attack of opportunity, can I use that attack to trip the character again?

No.
The attack of opportunity is triggered before the action that triggered it is resolved.
In this case, the target is still prone when the attack of opportunity occurs (and you get the normal bonuses when making such an attack). Since the trip combat maneuver does not prevent the target's action, the target then stands up.

—Jason Bulmahn, 08/13/10

Why doesn't this answer your question?

What am I missing?

Edit; I see.
Greater trip give AOO's on your trip.

But If they already have the trip condition, you can't add trip to them again under the standard stacking rule- i.e. two effects from the same source do not stack.


I see what you mean.
I seem to have assumed that a 'Giant' template included a size increase- which the quick rules does not say.

That means only +2 to hit, +2 to swim, +2 to fort, +2 to str and con checks, +2 hp/HD, and -1 AC from dex as well as -1 to all dex skills.

Since this took two feats, one of them mythic, I would hope it gave more of a benefit than augment summoning

Definetly not as good, though I think my GM will let me have the +2 to damage as well as the +3 to NA from the rebuild level of giant.


Mythic powerful shape gives the equivalent of weapon focus twice, weapon specialization, toughness twice, and enlarges you giving reach and larger weapon dice as well as a size bonus for CMD and CMB at the expense of -1 dex bonus for AC, reflex, and skills and a -1 size for BAB.
For all forms.
And you can spend a mythic surge to still get the additional effect from the original powerful form feat- which will double your CMB/CMB size bonus and stack with any other bonus to CMB/CMD.
A bonus that works with any combat maneuver you make in wild form, and there are a lot of forms used mostly for the grab, trip, trample, etc. ability given.

How many feats officially increase your CR by 1?
(The giant simple template does.)

Though I admit I spoke to my DM and he's letting me add the +3 to NA from the rebuild line of the giant template.


I know you've got your mind set on an antipladin for pestilence, but have you looked at the blight druid?

You're not immune to disease till later, but you have a 5th level save-or-sickened ability and at 13th, you are a plaquebringer.


The natural spell feat, mythic version allows you to activate devices and use spell completion items.
It also lets you talk in wild shape.

There is a first rank hierophant power that gives you the free use of one shape- it's at will and does not count against your daily uses.

The only problem I see with your plan is you megafauna shape is large, with a 10' space, but only has 5' reach.

My mythic druid is concentrating on elemental forms.
To keep them up to power, I have powerful form and powerful form, mythic- which adds the giant template to any wildshape.
Proteus was a god of the sea, so water forms are appropriate, consider a backup form of (giant) small water elemental.
Or any giant/small animal or elemental or giant/medium of either.
Wildshape is powerful for its versatility, so keep other forms in mind.

These forms can be complicated enough, I like to keep a sheet of stats for each widshape.
Like how a summoner should have a card for each possible summons.


In regards to using spell strike, is it possible to "deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack" if the weapon he is weilding is immaterial?

A similar question would be if brilliant and spell storing were compatible.


This Is the mythic version of flame blade:

The blade's damage increases to 2d6 points of fire damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +20). The blade threatens a critical hit on a natural 18–20 as if it were an actual scimitar.

Augmented (3rd): If you expend two uses of mythic power, the blade threatens a critical hit on a natural 15–20, and bypasses hardness, fire resistance, and fire immunity.

From this I would read that a standard flame blade does not share the crit range of a scimitar.

I believe the reason the "wield like a scimitar" is there is history.
The spell dates back through several editions and it was important to note that a druid, who couldn't use swords, could use a flame blade like the only sword he was proficient in.


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Things I noticed:

In my opinion, a 7 strength is always a bad idea.
Look at carrying capacity for what she can have- at 24 pounds, she is at medium encumberance.
A sickle, a sling and bullets, leather armor, and a small shield weigh
27 pounds. A spell component pouch weighs 2 lbs.

A third level druid has 4 cantrips, 2 1st level, and 1 second level spell.
Her stat of 20 gives her 2 additional 1st and an additional 2nd level spell.
She does not have 3rd level spell until she is 5th level.

With a charisma of 8, her bonus to UMD and Handle Animal is 0 and 3.

You have spell focus(conjuration) and your only conjuration spell is summon swarm. Which doesn't have a save.
Of course, she can change spells every day, but conjuration spells don't usually give a save.
Spell focus (conjuration) is the preq. for augment summoning- which buffs her summoned creatures and she doesn't want to focus on summoning.

Have you read the guides found stickied in this forum?
It might give you, and her, some ideas.


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In 1st and 2nd edition, we carried spikes and would spike the door shut behind us.
Picture a wedge driven inbetween the door and the frame jamming it.
Or a spike driven into the floor in front of the closed door.

It counted as a locked door to break open, or rather, there was an open doors line on the strength chart.


examples:

Crane Style: Crane style focuses on defense and agile counterattacks. Practitioners are known for graceful, one-legged stances and folding arm techniques that mimic a crane's enormous wings.

Dragon Style: Dragon style captures the overwhelming power, grace, and ferocity of dragons.

Earth Child Style: A warrior cadre of dwarves and gnomes dedicated to fighting and slaying giants developed this style.

Mantis Style: Based on the hunting techniques of the praying mantis, practitioners of this style fight with their hands turned down to emulate the insect's sharp grasping forelimbs.

Marid Style: Marid style emulates the fluid strength of flowing rivers and the cold of the ocean depths.

Snake Style: Snake style emphasizes quick, shifting movements. Its practitioners normally hold their hands flat with the fingers together to mimic the head of a snake.

Snapping Turtle Style: The snapping turtle style emphasizes active defense with one hand.

Tiger Style: This style seeks to emulate the power and fury of the great tiger.

So:

Feat- Powerful Slam Style
Preq. IUS, Wildshape (Elemental form)
This character has fought both unarmed and in the form of an elemental enough to combine the two. As full round action, make an unarmed attack. If it hits, add 1 1/2 times your strength bonus (as if using a two handed weapon) and make a free grapple check against the same foe. You must make a second attack roll, but you do not trigger an attack of opportunity.

or

feat- Trigger Slam
preq (weapon focus (slam), follower of a good whose favored weapon is the slam, IUC)
The character may incorporate the concept of a slam in his unarmed attacks. Once per round, when he succeeds on a unarmed attack, he may also do a bull rush maneunver against his target. This uses the same attack roll as the original attack and does not trigger an attack of opportunity, but he may not follow up the movement.

These are just examples.
I am looking to bring the influence of the favored weapon (slam) to my combat when not in elemental form.


Actually, a single feat incorporating slams into unarmed combat would be stylish enough.
Any ideas?


In regards to the error in the title, I just wanted Ya'll to know I can spell.
It's typing I suck at.


If you were writing up a style feat chain based upon the natural attack of elementals, what would the three feats contain?

I'm a running a druid and recent events have caused me to look at adding monk to the mix. (became champion to a lost god whose preferred attack was the slam)

I'm aware of the weapon focus (slam), feral combat (slam) chain needed to use the natural attack in elemental form with monk abilities, but I was looking to show the influence of the elementals' combat style on the monk.

By the way, have you noticed a martial artist needs take weapon focus on unarmed combat only, but a natural weapons fighter must take it multiple times for different attacks?


If you were writing up a style feat chain based upon the natural attack of elementals, what would the three feats contain?

I'm a running a druid and recent events have caused me to look at adding monk to the mix. (became champion to a lost god whose preferred attack was the slam)

I'm aware of the weapon focus (slam), feral combat (slam) chain needed to use the natural attack in elemental form with monk abilities, but I was looking to show the influence of the elementals' combat on the monk.

By the way, have you noticed a martial artist needs take weapon focus on unarmed combat only, but a natural weapons fighter must take it multiple times for different attacks?


There are creatures, such as elementals, which have a slam attack.

What is a slam attack and can you use a monk's unarmed attack to do a slam attack?


Since component use of gems is tied to value, not size, it means you don't care how rare or how large the gems are.
Just what they cost you.


If you went full druid and saurian, at 6th level you get wildshape and count as 8th for dinos.
Now you can go reach combat using large or better forms and, staying full druid, keep up full spellcasting.
Your summoning plan still works and you don't have to multiclass for a reach weapon.
Also, access to summoning spells is not slowed down.


remember that small characters get a bonus to stealth
rogue, ranger, ninja come to mind
ninja gets vanish as a trick

You're looking for class with stealth and perception as class skills as well as enough skill points to use them.
Knowledge skills and linguistics may help.
A race with dark or low light vision will help.

gripplis are small, have wis and dex for stat bonuses, move 30 and have a climb speed, and can see in the dark.

Grippli ninja?


One option is to focus on wild shaping.

Take the shaping focus feat, so you can count your druid level as 4 higher (not to exceed character level) for wild shaping only.

Pick up natural spellcasting when you can.

Use your spells for self buffing, looking at such things as barkskin, longstrider, and magic fang.
There are also a number of spells such as the aspect of line which buff you in combat.
Various animal shapes may give you abilities like trip and grab, as well as reach. Pounce is also a favorite.

You may want to stay in druid to maximize the uses of wild shape and to get access to higher level spells at the cost of BAB and HPs, but you will be capable in combat and have more skill points and better saves.

Alternatively, more fighter levels means more feats and hit points, as well aiming towards your trip build.
One of the weaknesses of wild shaping is AC; fighting in human form does not have this problem.


Mythic Simple Templates

The following simple templates can be used to turn any monster into a mythic creature. A creature given one of these templates counts as a mythic creature for the purposes of spells, abilities, and magic items even though it doesn't have the mythic subtype. Note that because it doesn't have the mythic subtype, it doesn't gain the many benefits of having the mythic subtype—the creature only gains the benefits described in the simple template.
Agile (MR 1, CR +1)

Creatures with the agile template are quick and deadly, moving faster than their normal counterparts and striking with incredible speed and agility. An agile creature's quick and rebuild rules are the same.

Rebuild Rules: Init +20 bonus; AC +2 dodge bonus; hp mythic bonus hit points; Defensive Abilities evasion (as the rogue class feature); Speed +30 feet for all movement types (up to double the creature's base movement speed); Special Attacks dual initiative.

from prd mythic monsters

dual initiative gives two actions, 1 at rolled init, the other at -20 init

which means the creature gets 2 turns per turn, meaning your players will have to work harder


Don Juan de Cornelius wrote:


Are you a goblin?

Nope, I'm a winged monkey.

Maybe we're both descended from Wizard of Oz extras.

edit: TOTP!!!


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Don Juan de Cornelius

Are we related?


In case you hadn't seen it:

PFSRD wrote:


Wild Speech
You speak with the tongue of men and beasts.

Prerequisites: Druid level 6th, wild shape class feature.

Benefit: When using wild shape to take the form in which you cannot speak (such as an animal), you are able to speak normally in any language you know. This allows you to cast spells with verbal components, speak command words, and activate spell completion and spell trigger items. However, it does not give you the ability to cast spells requiring somatic components unless you also have the Natural Spell feat, or cast spells with material components merged into your form.

When using wild shape to take the form of an animal, you may use speak with animals to communicate with animals of your assumed form. This is a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your druid level, and you may use it for a number of minutes per day equal to your druid level. These minutes do not have to be consecutive, but must be used in one-minute increments.


Where does weapon proficiency (falcata) come from?


various archetypes for druid have access to substitute domains

look under archetypes in the APG, UM, UC, and ARG, all of which are also in the PRD

look under core classes or spellcasters in the various indexes


Heighten alters the slot used to cast from and the spell save adjusts to match.
I'm not sure why a magus would want that.
But I'm courious how magical lineage would effect it as well.


take a domain instead, gives more spells and domain abilities


polymorph gish based on natural attacks?

have you considered going druid?

Wild shape variety and duration and natural attacks with natural spell casting in any form
higher bab, more hit points, casting in armor, etc.


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fulcrum

lever

or some translation there of

as in, give me a large enough lever and a fulcrum and I can move the (second) world

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