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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 576 posts. 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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So the wish comes true.

Instead of condemning the pregnancy her father supports her and tries to help her get ready for motherhood.

This in turn drives her into deeper depths of hatred and depression than his previous reaction as she realizes that the only traps on her freedom aren't imposed - but rather self inflicted. She tries to use 'herbs' to end things early but she is cured by her father when she is sick.

Through the healing magic her father uses she gives birth to a fully fledged demon baby - which promptly teleports to the abyss - the rest of the story plays out in a similar way - the party gets the vision of the change of how things play out - as it fades - back to the room.

"poof" - a Hezrou enters - and says 'you called mother?'

Just a thought...

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Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Coriat wrote:
I've certainly seen teamwork feats that I would have thought were aimed at other classes, but perhaps I've been fooled?
Or perhaps this info was so stealthy that it was never communicated to freelancers, who may have just been told, "write some more teamwork feats," without the understanding that "blah blah blah intended as supplementary class features for cav/hunt/inq" was implied. *shrug*

I'm unsure how stealthy it could be. When I read the teamwork feats I think 'awesome for a fighter - but how can you get the other guy who gets 1/3 of the feats and needs all of them to take one' then I read the cavalier and go 'oh - so they are like a class feature' and realize that much like the other feats that anyone can take but only really work for some classes (metamagic) they are pretty much meant for classes that have the class feature.

Or possibly npcs when used as parts of trained military (or gangs) where it makes sense for some added variety.

I honestly don't see any of them worth more than 'skill focus: appraise' without the class feature - it just requires to much investment and serendipity in a flowing combat situation to make sure your 'teammate' is always in position to use the feat and take advantage. At least with the class feature you just pick whoever is closest and don't need to stress out if your friend moves 5 feet to far to the right.

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Here is a link for a thread on this subject - it wouldn't have recent additions from the 'plastic set' or new reaper minis though.

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deusvult wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Alright, so there are no described penalties for failure, so the GM can rule in any accidents that happen, but does not mean the character cannot take 20. They just suffer the consequences, much like taking 10 can incur something going wrong.

Well if you consider those two examples to be the exhaustive list of everything that can go wrong, you'd right.

Either way, the writers screwed up. Take 20 can't be used when there is penalty for failure. Disable Device always carries penalties for failure (even if they neglected to say what that penalty is, mechanically, for picking locks). Take 20 uses Disable Device as an explicit example of what you can use Take 20 on.

It's a "does not compute" that the GM has to wrangle.

I think "does not compute" is because you are thinking about take 20 from the wrong angle.

Take 20 can be used anytime you aren't under distraction - it typically takes 2 minutes (or longer) and means you roll the following array: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 on your skill check.

Take 20 can be used anywhere but you always accept the penalty for failure if there is one. Don't forget that you can also take 20 on a stat check (to say break open a door) - and your allies can take 10 on the assist (all assuming no one is under distraction).

My players still hit traps for several reasons:


  • Rushing due to chase sequence
  • Forgetting to search
  • Trap is visual (symbol for instance)
  • pushed into trap
  • secondary (no the door isn't trapped but the 5 foot square on the other side...)

    What take 20 does do (from my perspective) is expect that a reasonably cautious party will find most traps and find most items if they are willing to take the time to do so, and instead of having lots of rolls it speeds up the game. On the occasion that I have old school adventures converted I tell my players up front (we'll be doing secret doors differently in this dungeon - some of them open in odd ways and you need to tell me how you attempt to open the door). You can create traps where there is a small amount of damage (say a auto-reload magic missle per round) which keeps the player from taking 20 - tomb of horrors is a great inspiration for traps :)

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    6)The perception skill. The perception skill is bull. It is BY FAR the most useful skill in the game. Countering stealth, finding traps, noticing clues NEEDED TO PROGRESS THE GAME (in poorly written adventures.) It is widely regarded as the most useful, always-applicable skill in the game. And some classes just don't get it as a class skill. Why not simply make it a stat (like a saving throw bonus) if you are going to make it so gosh-darn required for everyone?

    This bothered me until I really read the rules for take 10/20.

    Now my players walk up to a door and it goes like this:

    "I search for traps - take 20"
    me: you find the trap
    them: I take 10 to disarm did it work (roll if not)
    enter room
    them: take 20 on search
    me: "you find the following"

    (with a bit more description and such - but really there is little that can't be found with a take 20 roll to search, and there is very literally no trap that can't be found this way outside of making a trap completely undetectable.

    The only way you miss something is either not wanting to take the time (2 minutes per check) to look at something - which happens. It does make me (the GM) keep track of time for buff spells and such - and it does typically make sure that buffs that are shorter than 30 mins or longer only last for one encounter.

    It also lets me determine random monster encounters - all of which I think are by design honestly.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    magnuskn wrote:
    Sacrin wrote:
    Thank you so much for your tips Magnuskn. The party members trained in the proper knowledge skills have previously made checks, I guess I can have them make additional checks if the situation gets out of hand. In retrospect it does seem silly that a juvenile dragon already has two offspring, but what's done is done.

    You're welcome. I know all too well how it is when group members begin to tell themselves things which aren't even true in-game and then derail the adventure over that.

    OTOH, sometimes that is where all the fun lies. ;)

    The only thing I'd change is 'sometimes' to 'often' - +1

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    wraithstrike wrote:

    If they dont even want to publish errata that will push some words onto the next page, I am sure they are much less enthusiastic about having two books that don't match up when trying to reference something. <---I am not saying it is wrong to want a redone CRB, but I am saying this is why it should not be expected.

    Some of these misunderstandings in the rules is writing that is not clear. However, some of it is also people either not reading the rules well, or wanting the rules to work a certain way so badly that they refuse to read it any other way.

    edit: Sometimes people will tell Paizo they are wrong about their own rules. Then I make ask, well how would it have to be written for them to think Paizo is correct, and they go on about how stupid the ruling is. That just tells me the problem is not the rule is written, but them not liking the ruling.

    I am aware of all of this - yet the desire to not upset the formatting I think is a limitation.

    That's why I used the poison blog post as an example - and honestly there are plenty of things that carried over with a history of bad language that could be cleaned up. I do know that people often want the rules to read a 'certain' way.

    I will state though that some of that (like say vital strike) shows that the language itself even if correct leads the wrong impression on a first read (and or being new) - and honestly the problem with writing technical documentation of any kind (Pathfinder or not) is that if the language (even if clear and non-ambiguous) trips up the average target of your work, it needs revision.

    Being the CRB is meant as a player book I think a chapter that focuses on how you as a player can organize yourself and your turn - keep track of your action types, and smooth out your turn and abilities would be helpful as well.

    Frankly I'd even be OK with this being a 'new' book that skips or leaves out things that work fine. I'm not sure in general that people would like that however, and I understand the CRB is already a mammoth volume and this type of project wouldn't be easy. I still stand that I think it would be an awesome product.

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    thejeff wrote:
    1 is "Errata the existing material". 3 is "Put out material that doesn't need errata, even if that means less material".

    I just wanted to chime in and say they already put errata into books when they reprint - the CRB is usually pretty good about that as it gets reprinted most often.

    My thought of 'revised' wasn't about errata as much as cleaning up the actual game language - this doesn't mean it has to change the game, or the rules like errata can - but rather just taking the time to remove bad/confusing language which has been shown to trip up people who don't read the rules forums.

    There is plenty of that in there - people still get tripped up on hold vs. ready actions - people still get tripped up on swift vs immediate - people still get tripped up on attack action vs full round attack.

    That's just a few hot button ones - Jason did an incredible blog post (it's referenced in the CRB FAQ) about poisons which actually made them *clear* and *understandable* and much more deadly than how I was using them.

    Why isn't that part of the CRB? Honestly. There is opportunity for them (from the rules forum posts and feedback) to really clean up the crufty corners of the rules and make at least the 'basic' understandable and easier to use.

    There are plenty of areas they can actually clear up that *no one* has a good idea about - for instance 'flying 3/d' combat - there is an entire area that can be fleshed out and hopefully some simple rules for how to handle it that helps players and gm's around the world find a workable solution. Mounted combat needs cleaned up. I can go on.

    They (Paizo) have shown a great ability to make the rules make sense when they want to - I feel like a 'revised' CRB would be awesome - again not a new edition - not a "pathfinder 1.5" but just revised.

    That is what I mean - not just errata.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Fromper wrote:

    Why is this flooding happening?


    Ancient magic fails,

    While new magic succeeds,
    The dam doesn’t stop the flow
    Of rain brought by evil deeds.

    A note here:


    The village *expects* flooding with the rain - however it is supposed to be a slow and controlled flood (the adventure doesn't make this very clear) - what happened was the ogres broke the dam an instead of a controlled flood they got a 'whoosh' due to the break.

    Waters rise faster now
    The skull faced rock can tell you how
    The evil one lies alone
    where once company filled his home


    Why is the dam at Skull's Crossing not working?

    Skull’s Crossing’s ancient magic

    Controlled the flow of water’s fall,
    But since the death of captured fiend,
    It no longer works at all.

    See above :)


    Why is there so much extra rain? (still not sure which I prefer)

    Magic of Hook Mountain hags brings extra rain to drown
    Those rune-marked souls who live below, in the lakeside town.

    Wicked ones they be

    those that dabble count of three
    they serve the master of the hook
    who in turn serves one who uses the forbidden book!


    This gives some clues and also a hint as to the next big bad...

    For the end:

    Is Sandpoint in danger?

    Ware the coming of the tribe
    they seek answers that towns hide
    fire and misery rue they day
    should the heroes stay away

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    I don't want a "pathfinder 2.0"

    I would pay good money for a "pathfinder revised core rule book"

    That is get rid of bad language - clear up things that are confusing - take time to explain things (like freedom of movement for example).

    Clean up things that need cleaned up and even revise rules/classes/feats if needed.

    (i.e. you can use vital strike as a standard action - boom no longer confusing for people not familiar with rules lawyering and crufty language).

    They don't need to change the rules system to put out something new and awesome - I'm pretty sure there is enough evidence on these very forums for them to find and fix most of the problems. Anyway I'd appreciate that product in a hot second.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber


    My player takes leadership at the same time the cleric has a case of real life that takes him out of the game - the player when given a choice of *anything* says lets get a healer for a cohort... so I come up with something and make up a plan to get them into the game.

    Synopsis - player (halfling cavalier) is an escaped slave (backstory) and part of the bellflower network - while staying in Magnimar he is captured by a group of mercenaries who get word of a bounty on him. The bellflower network sends the future cohort who approaches the party for help getting him back (note - cohort is psychic searcher oracle who 'knew' she needed to help before the kidnapping even happened). Player is into the idea - and to introduce the npc will be roleplaying her through the rescue.

    Players will investigate and find the hideout - a warehouse in magnimar - where the mercenaries are holed up. 2 fights planned - one inside the big warehouse - and then one inside the cellar where the two leaders are meeting with a pair of duergar (sp?) who are attempting to make a better offer for purchase of the halfling for (no one wants to really know what they do with their captives... honestly). The basement has a hidden entrance that the duergar use and do frequent business with the mercenaries - in this case the bounty is much higher than the dwarves want to pay and so they are arguing over price and past business but have a shield up that silences sounds going out or into the area for 'privacy' which will keep them out of the upstairs fight.

    I am looking for maps. Ideally a warehouse map - largish with some open areas and interesting 'stuff' placement - things half high for cover or height advantage - stuff possible to 'bull rush' into something by knocking it over, etc.

    Stairs going down under a trap door that's currently open.

    Then a sub-level with a meeting room - two offices - a 'common room' and a secret entrance to a tunnel/stairs.

    On the off chance that anyone is interested in making this/has a map similar or knows a good link to one - I'd much appreciate it - having seen the maps makers here this was my go-to place.

    Note - this is not for online - I will be printing these for battlemaps - as such the quality doesn't need to be super high (dpi) but a grid is a must.

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    Peet wrote:
    CWheezy wrote:

    Calculated total loot in book 2: 67933 gp

    16983.25 per pc

    54522gp total per pc is you find and sell everything.

    I think you should end book 2 at level 8? The level progression is kind of weird in anniversary edition compared to other aps I think

    You should finish book 2 soon after getting to level 7, going by the suggested progression.

    Yes but that's a trap - book 1 says 'they should reach level 4 just before or after the end' and in book 2 they should be level 5 before they fight anything.

    So I had to toss a module into the mix to gloss that over - see the party make a side trip to Ravenmoore :)

    Book two says they should be level 7 just before or after the final fight right...

    And in book 3 they should hit level 8 before they really take on the grauls.


    It's ok I've decided to expand the campaign a bit and make big K a tad mythic - as such I'm taking my guys to level 20 by the end (honestly if they fight everything they should hit 18 anyway so it's not a huge stretch).

    What it does do, however, is even out the leveling which is fast an furious in the first 4 books and then slows to 2 levels per in the last two.

    So I keep it at 4 levels per book and figure I can toss all the extra stuff in I want (and justify it). Assuming we don't tpk before then it should be a pretty epic finish.

    At the rate we play that's still about 2 years away ... *sigh*

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    Zilfrel Findadur wrote:
    How should i sing this?

    I've had musicians casually ask me if I would write songs for them in the past - mostly when I was in college as I'd ask for input (due to the nature of college life and lots of time between classes on some days) from people from time to time.

    In adult life being an introvert and being horrified at the thought of even showing my work to people I deal with in a 'professional' capacity that hasn't happened for a long time.

    Despite having learned an instrument in the past - and the ability to read sheet music - I'm not very musical myself - at least in terms of how to create a melody, and the associated 'stuff' - so I don't have advice for you (or anyone who has asked) - as I don't ever come up with verse with music in mind...

    All that said - if you are serious and do end up singing it - I'd love to hear it. :)

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    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    O Foundation upon which we defied the darkness
    Shine brightly for all these days
    Sweet laughter falls to harshness
    Weep for the lost ways

    Beacon of hope that wounds could be healed
    Shine brightly for all these days
    Light that has fallen, and evil unsealed
    Weep for the lost ways

    Kenabres… shine brightly again for all these days.

    (wrote this after we finished book one in our campaign and thought I'd share...)

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Tangent101 wrote:
    Also don't forget the effect of terrain on combat. For instance, six ghouls in a wide open area? A threat. Four ghasts scrambling up a slippery slope and having to either make climb checks (and I believe you can't fight and climb) or acrobatics checks to move more normally... and unable to all attack at once? Somewhat more dangerous but not hugely so, especially if there's a cleric handy.

    +1 - the ghasts die really fast if you have any kind of archer in the party as well.. I know that from personal experience.

    The ghouls on the other hand can be pretty nasty when your party decides to investigate separate sides of the farmhouse at the same time...

    Much of what makes fights tough or easy ends up being your players and how they react to the situation.

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    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    I skimmed this thread so if it's already been mentioned forgive me - but :

    Reign of Winter


    At the end of this AP you have the opportunity to do almost anything you want - you can leave Baba Yaga alone but have the opportunity to force her off the world 'forever' (at least as long as your longest lived elf lasts in the world) - conversely after all is said and done if you want to take on the witch herself it's a possibility - so I disagree that you'd be fighting her 'pet goldfish' - you actually work *with* Babba Yaga through most of the adventure path (her spirit at least) and use her hut to plane jump all over the place - it's 100% the opposite of a 'plane vanilla fight the lesser bad guy' type of adventure.

    Serpents Skull


    Well in Serpents Skull you fight a god that's trying to rebith itself at the end - I am pretty sure that qualifies as a big nasty.

    Wrath of the Righteous


    Despite others protests if you prefer rollplaying this is an awesome AP - you *will* need to re-work the encounters and toss a bunch - this is where you have to make a choice - do you level up where the adventure says to or just when you get exp? The game itself uses exp and so to reach level 20 this adventure has many more encounters than most - so ditch the exp and the encounters and focus on the rollplaying. The end boss is a demon lord. You clean the worldwound.

    Can't get much more epic than that.


    (Yes, you can say you can role-play anything , but I mean an adventure where the interaction is part of the plot, not just ad-libbed while you’re killing things). I wouldn’t expect a d20 game to lack ANY kind of combat, we’d be happy with a mix.

    Are there any APs that offer decision points, consequences of choices – like making allies of a former foe, or upsetting NPCs that are supposed to be friendly to the point they become enemies? The players are used to games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, so they would enjoy something that actually impacts the plot, for good or bad. (And yes, a GM can always change things on the fly, but I’m wondering if there are any PCs where player decisions actually impact the game at any point). One of the players said that he felt the PF APs were like Final Fantasy style games, where you could play out a linear story that was enjoyable, but you had no choices to make or impact on the plot beyond what to fight. So I was hoping that at least one of the APs might cater to a different style of play. I’m not necessarily asking for a ‘sandbox’ - ‘linear’ is fine if there are choices along the way.

    So as to your first point - interaction being part of the plot - 1st ap has 2 towns and one city full of NPCs including a major part of books 1-3 are investing the players into the starting town so the plot points of book 4 have meaning and impact.


    First you meet an NPC at the beginning that the players rescue and then gives them gifts and friendship - to be the big boss at the end of book 2. The npc ranger you meet has a huge plot impact on book 3. Book 2 has the entire city of Magnimar that has enough opportunity to roleplay (you meet the mayor - nope can't get involved in intrigue there). Book 4 has you defend the starting town from a bunch of giants you find out about at the end of book 3 - and hey it was the job of the GM to make sure the players fell in love with the town from book 1 and 2...

    All the APs have a mix of this - you find full NPC writeups on many of the villans with great roleplaying opportunities.

    Frankly the more frustrating thing is when you know a page of backstory on someone for the players to kill them.

    As to choices - not all - but most of the 'minor bad' enemies have notes about what happens if you capture them. Many of them can be redeemed. Some of them are under magical compulsion and can be allies after the compulsion is removed.

    Anything after that is up to the players - it's not Mass Effect where you meet a guy and the game gives you 3 options - one is good, one bad, and the third neutral where it's obvious one makes you St. Goodbert - the last makes you Evil Bastard and the middle one is meh.

    If your players go up against an NPC who's charmed - they aren't going to announce it - if you say 'This guy pulls his weapon and fights with a glassy look in his eyes' and your players don't get that and kill first then they can't complain that they didn't get to make friends with a bad guy.

    If your players want to play evil and make friends with the bad guy that way - then they can do so - but the adventures are pretty much written assuming you are going to be a good guy team - again with above however there are plenty of places for redemption throughout the AP's - most players ignore it though.

    *edit* fixed spoiler tag

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    NobodysHome wrote:

    Odd I only got 34k ish - I wonder what the differences were - does go to show everyone counts things a little differently.

    Yep. I suspect it's the whole, "A dress worth 100 g.p."

    From other threads I've read, I believe that's supposed to be the selling price, so I added 100 g.p. to the spreadsheet. If you take it to be the buying price and cut it in half, I bet we'd make up almost all the difference. (And I sold the goblin dogslicers and so forth -- lots of "garbage loot" that no reasonable human would ever buy...)

    yeah I had a separate tally for art/gems/coins for things that sell full value and counted all the goblin loot - (as stated above even a regular goblin should have a dogslicer, shield, short bow, arrows) I may have missed something or perhaps classified something incorrectly - it was much more of a pain to go through all that than I thought it would be.

    My players missed quite a bit of loot so I gave them other things to make up for it (being heroes in sandpoint I gave them 60% for selling instead of 50% and gave them a 10% discount on buying stuff as well).

    They are just starting book 3 and are pretty much spot on for wbl except my crafter wizard who is in line considering the crafted items.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    captain yesterday wrote:

    I just found mint original skinsaw murders at used bookstore, $10


    I found curse of the crimson throne - books 1-3 and 6 - I had to check the website on my phone and check but I got 4-5 online giving me a full AP set :)

    I was very happy - that was only a couple of months ago.

    Now if I could only find the horror one...

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    NobodysHome wrote:


    - Expected WBL, 4 PCs, 4th level: 4 x 6000 = 24,000 g.p.

    - Easy-to-find, easy-to-sell treasure and items: 16,438 g.p.
    - Hard-to-find but still reasonably sell-able items: 7,285 g.p. (including the 3,000 g.p. head, which some people might object to)

    So -without- the goblin or hobgoblin gear, but -with- selling everything at half price you're at 23,723 g.p. which is pretty darned close.

    If you add in goblin and hobgoblin gear (and a certain dagger), you get a whopping extra 13,816.

    Considering this was all gear and all items without explicitly stated values at half price and I still ended up at 37,539.32, I think James' claim of "double per book" holds water through Book 1.

    Anyone want to suggest a good place I can publicly post a read-only version of the spreadsheet so people can chew it up?


    Book 2 this weekend, I think. Takes quite a while...

    EDIT: And I included Big M's stuff as "easy to find" (1500 g.p. worth of candles and a ring that sells for 4250 g.p.). So there's another 5750 g.p. some people might re-categorize as "hard to find".

    Odd I only got 34k ish - I wonder what the differences were - does go to show everyone counts things a little differently.

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    NobodysHome wrote:
    Bellona wrote:

    Folks, here's a small nit-pick from the vocabulary police: there is a difference between the treasure HOARD and the orc HORDE.

    Please take note! That goes for game publishers too - I've seen at least one printed reference to a dragon's horde (which isn't likely unless one's playing Dragon Mountain, or maybe The Red Hand of Doom). :)

    See, if you're going to be the grammar police, you really need to get them ALL:

    • It is not "rouge", it's "rogue"! "Rouge" is a form of makeup!
    • It is not "Monty Haul", it is "Monty Hall". Monty Hall was the game show host for "Let's Make a Deal" in the 1960's and 1970's. The show was famous for its ridiculously-costumed contestants and its ludicrously over-the-top prizes. Since D&D originally developed in the 1970's, dungeons with excessive loot were referred to as "Monty Hall" dungeons in his honor.
    • A "hoard" is something someone has collected. A "horde" is a group of attackers.
    • Contrary to common sense, "its" is possessive, while "it's" is a contraction for "it is". Always.
    • "There" is a location. "Their" is possessive. "They're" is a contraction.

    Honestly, I think the greatest favors ever done for me were by complete jerks:
    - If I mis-used "its/it's" or "they're/there/their" in an English paper, I got an automatic 0 on the entire paper.
    - If I made a mistake while driving, my driving instructor slammed on the brakes, yelled, "BAM! YOU'RE DEAD!", and my turn was over.

    Kind of made me remember proper grammar and proper driving. Go figure.

    All of that and I only got dinged on using horde instead of hoard?

    I'm disappointed no one pointed out it's 'role-playing' not 'rollplaying' - but that's what I get for being intentionally punny.

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    magnuskn wrote:

    Still, gotta know how much I need to place for my six players in that first group. I am very much aware that the first modules of RotRL can seem a little scarce on treasure even for four players!

    Well it will depend somewhat on what your characters consider loot - what they find - and what you allow to be sold - some tips:

    • goblins are expected to have the gear listed in the bestiary - I pegged each goblin gear value at 52 (prior to selling) - warchanters were 135 and commandos were 673.
    • Aldern (if taken on his offer for a boar hunt) actually *buys* a horse for each player - that's 75 (or more if you are generous and say each mount has tackle and a saddle)
    • Unless your players are very dead set on their own thing they should get free room and board while in sandpoint which helps
    • I suggest checking out the (free) wayfinder mag from this site - there is a side adventure to explore choppers isle that is very cool - I added a masterwork weapon for each PC as a reward when they were done personally.
    • If your players find *everything* and sell *everything* you will need to add about 2k to hit level 4 wbl for a 6 player party. Shouldn't be too hard to do - the problem will be they should level to 5 pretty quick in the 2nd book and will fall behind as most of the exp from that first part is based on rollplaying. They should catch up by the end though due to some very nice treasure hordes.

    Anyway those are my thoughts.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Actually if you and your GM are thinking about allowing this I suggest that your GM read this post:

    Strain/Injury variant by Mythic Evil Lincoln

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    I put together a list - if the players find *everything* and sell *everything* (not keeping any loot for themselves) - they end up with:

    34,086.48gp at the end of book one.

    For four players that averages to 8,521.62

    At the end of book 1 - players should be level four and wealth by level = 6,000 gp.

    So based on the book - again assuming they never keep a single item (unlikely - making the wbl higher) they will end up halfway to level 5 wbl.

    I would like to point out that the worst book in the series for 'wealth' was book 1 - and it's the source of most complaints if you do a search on ancient threads.

    If you have more than 4 players and they don't loot everything - you (as a GM) may have to make some adjustments.... I'm not doing that for book 2 - it was rather a pain in the butt lol.

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    I had the best GM lesson of my life given to me by Alfred Leonardi - I was beta testing a runescape game for him and he frankly body slammed my ideas of what 'my' story was within about 5 minutes.

    Essentially you can never count on players to do what you want them to do. It doesn't matter what story you have and how cool it is - the game isn't played just by the GM - if the players don't have agency in the game and can't actually choose to do anything then what fun is it.

    Does this mean players should be allowed broken things? Nope - using shadow walk as a 2nd level spell is broken - my 'nerf' would be to take the lumps when it happened and then create an entire adventure in the plane of shadow. If the players are there when they aren't high enough level for it - too bad - they chose to use the plane and so results predictably will be they either escape not wanting to go back or worse. Problem solves itself - the shadow plane is nasty. Just having a pack of 10-15 shadows looking for the player drawn by the 'sweet smell of fresh living beings' is enough to really do nasty things.

    I also wouldn't allow a player to have a 'I kill it' button - but that's besides the point. A player has to sit at the table with the understanding that the rules are there not to be broken, but to create a challenge for players to overcome with the opportunity to fail. There should never be a 'god mode' at a tabletop RPG.

    At the same time the GM should expect the players to do the unexpected and as long as it's within the rules go with the flow and let the players shape the story. If there is a railroad (say like an adventure path) then it should be stated up front that you are playing 'x' and the expectation would be to stay on the story track within reason.

    These days I let my players do what they want - if that means they take a 'lead' and go in the wrong direction then whatever - it's just another adventure :)

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    In the 'community created' thread there someone did a 'generated' writeup for Turtleback Ferry - I went ahead and fleshed that out with character cards and a bit more writeup along with a GM guide if anyone is interested there are links on one of the few most recent pages...

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Yeah after looking it up - that elixir isn't even in 'Pathfinder' (the RPG) - it is a specific item from a 3.5 pathfinder (when it was the only title) adventure path.

    As such it's not actually available or known - did the crafting player have to research the new item?

    The GM goofed by allowing it in the game. Don't use that non-paizo website to look stuff up - because it's not official.

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    PMSchulz wrote:
    I know I've seen it somewhere, but there's a trait or feat that allows you the safe use of poison. I'm not referring to the Alchemist or the Poisoner Rogue, but there was a trait that allows you to safely use poison. At least, I think it was a trait. It might have been a feat. So, have I just missed where it is, or am I wrong?


    Harvester: You were trained to harvest all parts of an animal with care and precision. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Profession (tanner) or Profession (trapper) checks, and you may make these checks as if you were trained in the skill even if you have no ranks. Additionally, you do not risk poisoning yourself whenever you handle or apply poison taken from a venomous creature.

    (ultimate campaign)

    That's the only one - it is a trait.

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    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    I see what your problem is here.

    That elixir (despite the name) isn't a potion. It's a wondrous item.

    Your ability doesn't work with it.

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    Jorshamo wrote:
    The problem people are running into is assuming that everything written in the CRB is as it's intended to be. Compare PF overland flight with 3.5 overland flight, and PF fly with 3.5 fly. You'll notice for overland flight, the mention of "Average maneuverability" is scrubbed, leaving you with only the half CL bonus. It was required since 3.5 didn't have the fly skill, and everything was based on your maneuverability rating. However, from 3.5 to PF for fly, the only change to the text of the addition of the clause saying you get a bonus to your fly skill. I am of the opinion that while average maneuverability was successfully removed from overland flight, the good maneuverability of fly was left in by mistake.

    The argument that it was intentional is just as valid. There is not a single thing outside of 'it supports my argument' that one side or the other is more right about this - which makes it a perfect FAQ target - FAQ it and move on.

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    Here is for reference...


    Odds of being struck by lightning in a given year (reported deaths + injuries)


    Odds of being struck by lightning in a given year (estimated total deaths + injuries)


    Odds of being struck in your lifetime (Est. 80 years)


    So if you really want to make it real - roll 100 on a d10 around 100 times in a row - if all 100 rolls hit 100 then a character is struck.

    Outside of that it's GM fiat based on the rules in the CRB which say lighting can strike but not that it must strike.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Name of PC: Biru Shadow Caller
    Class/Level: Female gnome thief 3
    Adventure: Burnt Offerings
    Catalyst: Giant Hermit Crab

    I'm writing this for my player - and although the death happened long ago it shadows the campaign to this day...


    So the party finished Nualia and got beat up pretty badly (lots of ability damage) by the shadows - and they enter the room with the pool of seawater - everyone leaves but Biru who wants to investigate the helmet.

    Except she took a bit getting around to it (searching the room) so by the time the crab came out - the party was 2-3 rounds away.

    The crab... being a crab managed to get ahold of her - and the party ran back to help finding her barely hanging on (due to crappy rolls by the crab) in the crabs claws. Well - the crab decided to roll well - and constrict is wickedly dangerous.

    On a side note a married couple who are friends of mine played 2 characters in my campaign - Biru was one of them and sadly even though I give a hero point per level to 'avoid 1 death' the incident happened at the same time they had decided one of them would have to drop out due to kids school projects and other real life stuff - so this was a catalyst for her player to gracefully depart the campaign.

    The party took Biru's corpse and ended up putting a certain neck item on it and interned her in the Sandpoint crypts. She up to that point had been the party leader and named the group - so they continue (to this day - book 3 now) to call themselves 'Biru's champions' and using the Ultimate Campaign rules I've been adding 'kingdom building' materials into some of their rewards (including running the awesome 'choppers isle' side adventure in wayfinder) - they now have bought choppers isle and with the decent haul from the end of book 2 have begun construction of a 'guild hall' - the centerpiece is a statue to the character.

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    This is one of those places where you need to relax and ask yourself if this adds to the adventure or just makes it a pain for your characters.

    Essentially if you follow the 1 bolt per minute and hit pc's with bolts the entire time no single player I know will think that's fun or cool - even if there was a wizard or cleric controlling the storm I'd expect forewarning.

    Have the storm build up - hit a tree - if they don't try to find shelter have their hair start to stand on end... etc. if you really want to push it.

    As to advice:

    1) Modules aren't a bible - modify things that don't make sense or you don't like.

    2) Rules aren't a bible - modify things that don't make sense or you don't like.

    3) Generally if you play the storm like above it'd be the same as having a super volcano open under them - it's just silly and not really fair to the players. Heck the rules let them swim in lava for less damage.

    Ask yourself if you would enjoy playing a game where the party died to a random storm, and what is heroic about that, and why you'd take the time to buy books, make a character, find motivation, and gather with other people so that time you've put into the character is snuffed out because 'the rules say 1 bolt per minute'.

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    Bob Bob Bob wrote:

    Neothelid is -2 Dex, -6 Size, +10 spell... and now we're positive and it doesn't work. So I think I'll go with "devs are human and make mistakes sometimes", as this one has a major error in the calculation.

    And I'll confess, continuous SLAs may have been intended to be considered as "natural". I didn't notice until actually looking it up that the universal monster ability Flight includes Sp as one of the valid types.

    No they are -2 Dex, -6 Size (this is -8) spell (good) +4 for a total of -4

    which is exactly what they are listed at in the PRD.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Ok then...

    The Neothelid also has fly as a constant SLA - and uses the modifier - I realize it's final skill is -4 but...

    -2 Dex -6 (size) +4 (maneuver bonus from fly spell) = -4

    It's other skills take all 140 of it's skill points so the result is a 0 in the fly skill - just like printed.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Snorter wrote:

    The ghost's flight is a natural fly speed, since it's a permanent movement mode that one gains from becoming a ghost. It's not gained from casting a spell or using a spell-in-a-can item.

    Rob didn't explicitly answer the question that was being asked; an explicit answer would have been "Yes, a ghost's flight is a natural fly speed.".

    Instead he implies this is the case, by explaining the math behind the final bonus, and confirming that they gave the sample ghost the +8 bonus she would be expected to get from having a natural fly speed.
    And from that, we would deduce that ghost flight gives a natural fly speed.

    That ignores my second example.

    A Qlippoth Cythnigot has a constant 'fly' spell-like ability and gets the bonus.

    Spell-like abilities can be dispelled. They aren't (Ex) or (Su) - and yet it gets the maneuver bonus from an outside force.

    There are many more - I'll keep trotting them out because from my (admittedly non-exhaustive) research the Paizo dev's have been consistent with how it's used. Which is opposite of what you are saying.

    You'll note this is in 'general' so RAI is exactly what we are talking about here.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Bob Bob Bob wrote:

    Alright, please tell me how you unmake a ghost. I'll wait. Because if you can't separate "ghost" from the creature then it's now a part of the creature and counts as natural (well, as natural as anything in Pathfinder). Is there a way to undo templates? Can you unzombify someone without killing them and raising them from the dead? If not, that seems to argue that "zombie" is the new natural state for them. Just like "ghost" is the natural state of anyone with the ghost template applied.

    If you insist on that definition of natural abilities, I have a problem for you to solve.

    Universal Monster Abilities wrote:
    Flight (Ex, Sp, or Su) A creature with this ability can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the creature has wings, flight is an extraordinary ability. Otherwise, it is spell-like or supernatural, and it is ineffective in an antimagic field; the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists. Format: fly 30 ft. (average); Location: Speed.
    You'll notice this defines flight as Ex, Sp, or Su. All winged flight is extraordinary. This means that Flight is never a natural ability. And yet we have an explicit restriction to "natural fly speed". The only possible conclusion is that we're expected to read "natural" in the plain english definition instead of the game definition. Which, as I said last time, is innate abilities not created by outside forces (magic, jetpacks, flying carpets).

    A Qlippoth Cythnigot has a constant 'fly' spell-like ability and gets the bonus.

    Spell-like abilities can be dispelled. They aren't (Ex) or (Su) - and yet it gets the maneuver bonus from an outside force.

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    Diego Rossi wrote:

    A creature that get the supernatural ability to fly for 10 minutes 3 times in a day or that can cast the fly sped don't get a natural fly speed, it get the effect of a supernatural ability.

    Bob Bob Bob wrote:
    "Natural" has nothing to do with natural things in the real world. A natural fly speed is a fly speed that is an innate part of a creature and cannot be removed, dispelled, or otherwise taken away (without an anti-magic field, because some flight is SU). A ghost totally has a natural fly speed. A creature that casts overland flight/fly does not. A creature with an item that casts

    Actually you are wrong. Pathfinder *edit* has the definition of what's 'natural'.

    PRD says wrote:

    Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.

    Extraordinary Abilities: These abilities cannot be disrupted in combat, as spells can, and they generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities. They are not subject to dispelling, and they function normally in an antimagic field. Indeed, extraordinary abilities do not qualify as magical, though they may break the laws of physics.

    Natural Abilities: This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like.

    So the for a creature like the Yeth Hound - which is supernatural flight - and still has the maneuver bonus.

    Again the Devs uses the listed flight rating when giving bonuses - 'natural' or not - as they are consistent about it - I'd say the mistake is in the 'flight' writeup - not the many other places the bonus (or penalty) is used.

    (edited because I'm only on my first cup of coffee - sorry)

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    Bob Bob Bob wrote:
    "Natural" has nothing to do with natural things in the real world. A natural fly speed is a fly speed that is an innate part of a creature and cannot be removed, dispelled, or otherwise taken away (without an anti-magic field, because some flight is SU). A ghost totally has a natural fly speed. A creature that casts overland flight/fly does not. A creature with an item that casts fly/overland flight does not. A creature with continuous fly does not.

    Actually ghost flight isn't 'natural' it's acquired.


    “Ghost” is an acquired template that can be added to any

    living creature that has a Charisma score of at least 6. A
    ghost retains all the base creature’s statistics and special
    abilities except as noted here.

    You can't use your own rationalization (even if it's good) when discussing rules after all that would lead you to asking what use listing maneuverability is when the only use it has in game is a bonus or penalty on fly checks.

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    Diego Rossi wrote:

    No, not there, the citation there is the one I made, with natural fly speed in it. the bonus isn't applied if you fly with a supernatural ability or a spell.
    Check what you linked and you will see it.

    Rob McCreary wrote:
    Ckorik wrote:

    Rob - regarding the ghost on page 43 - should they have an additional +8 on the flight skill for having (perfect) flight?

    I'm unsure if the ghosts flight ability would be considered natural - based on the stat block it's not - but I was wondering if you would comment on that.

    Her Fly skill does include the +8 bonus for her maneuverability, but it also includes the -5 armor check penalty for her armor.

    I quote a Dev here for one reason - the ghost template doesn't give a 'natural' fly speed - it just gives fly (perfect).

    Yet the devs add the bonus into the creatures stat blocks.

    Apparently when a maneuverability rating is listed it is for a 'natural' fly speed.

    At least that's how the Dev's do it.

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    Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
    blackbloodtroll wrote:

    If you see it as simply an extra attack, with penalties to both, and then have the primary attack deal x1.0 strength to damage, and off-hand deal x0.5, there should be no problem for anyone.

    Looking at it this way, and running it as x1.0/x0.5, then any combination should not trouble anyone.

    Also, it is just arrogant, and rude, to insult the intelligence of those didn't see the hidden unwritten rules, and believed it functioned as the identically worded 3.5 rules.

    Don't be a dick.

    Although I agree with the sentiments, and although it may be simpler for some, the Str bonus to damage for the primary hand is not limited by TWF any more than it's limited outside of TWF. If the primary attack is with a 2HW or a 1HW in two hands, then the Str bonus to damage is x 1.5.

    The only way TWF affects the Str bonus to damage is with the off-hand attack (which only exists in TWF), and limits the Str bonus to damage for the off-hand attack to x 0.5. The primary attack's Str bonus to damage is not limited in any way by TWF.

    Ermmm - no there is no ambiguity about this Malachi...

    Damage is made adding strength (1x) to the weapon or sling. Currently the special rules call out 1.5 str for two handed and .5 str for offhands.

    That makes TWF .5 and 1 (as the current rules disallow using a two handed attack with two weapon fighting).

    The entire reason for the FAQ really is to keep people from doing what you are doing there - that is getting more than 1.5 STR from a single attack iterative.

    The idea from blackblood troll I think is a more elegant solution to the entire thing - just have a maximum of 1.5 STR per iterative - use it how you want.

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    Rasmus Koch wrote:

    Hi, i dont play with a digital platform for the maps. My group, play strictly live and oldschool :)

    how to i implement these beautiful maps and other stuff to my campaign.

    How do i convert them into prinable formats with squares on it ?

    tutorial to make battlemaps

    That's using photoshop - however there are instructions for 'gimp' (which is freeware) in the comments below the article.

    I will note that some of these really nice maps end up not working in Posterazor - the file gets too big due to all the pretty graphics and it won't open the '1 inch scale' :(

    I don't know how to fix that.

    I did get the 'interactive' maps from paizo - which wasn't outrageous to use for battlemaps.

    If you want to see what it looks like printed - here is a link - that's using my printers 'economy' setting to save on ink - which in general makes each page cost me around 5-6 cents or less. Maps range anywhere from 6-30 pages depending on size (the shadow clock has been the biggest one I've done) so rough costs are $.30 to $1.80 in ink + paper and tape or glue.

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    Avh wrote:
    Ckorik wrote:
    Undone wrote:

    Can I just point out something.

    Maneuverability: Creatures with a fly speed receive a bonus (or penalty) on all Fly checks depending on their maneuverability:
    Which is +4 for "Fly" the spell so at 5th level it is impossible to fall without a -2 or -3 dexterity modifier when added to the half caster level bonus. With a good dex you can eventually reach auto success rates.

    For an alchemist +7 - if he puts a point int the fly skill that's +4.

    We will assume his dex is horrible and his net (for 1 skill point) is a +8 (-3 dex)

    That still puts him at needing to only roll a 2 or better to move less than 1/2 speed (5 foot step anyone?) and only needing a 7 or better to hover.

    That's from a single skill point.

    If he put 4-5 skill points in it he'd be in the 'only fail on a 1' for hover and 5 or better for a straight up.

    At some point he could realistically say 'why am I rolling' with a few more skill points - you can't fail a skill check on a 1 - so once he has a high enough skill that a 1 will bring him over the check needed he can stop making those rolls.

    The point being that it shouldn't be really that difficult.

    First, you don't fail on a 1.

    Then, even if you fail by 5 or more, you don't fall when flying with Magic.

    Let's take a 7th basic alchemist with 8 dex (it is way lower than it should, but whatever). The alchemist has +6 in Fly. It allows her to move less than half speed 85% of the time (100% out of combat), Hover or turn greater than 45° 60% of the time (100% out of combat), and turn 180° or fly upward 35% of the time.

    With a single rank, she attains +10 in Fly. It would allow her to move less than half speed 100% of the time, Hover or turn greater than 45° 80% of the time (100% out of combat), and Turn 180° or fly upward 55% of the time (100% out of combat).

    With max ranks, she attains +16 in Fly, which would allow her to turn 180+ or fly upward 85% of the time in combat, and to do whatever else she...

    I'm not arguing with you - I am thinking you may have misread my post (I bolded the part where I noted you can't fail on a one).

    We (at our table) only worry about fly checks when there is something major going on (grapple in the air, being shot at while flying perhaps, a dragon breathing at you ... ) we never worry about it for just moving - not for the fly *spell* - now wings on the other hand... that's a different story.

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    Undone wrote:

    Can I just point out something.

    Maneuverability: Creatures with a fly speed receive a bonus (or penalty) on all Fly checks depending on their maneuverability:
    Which is +4 for "Fly" the spell so at 5th level it is impossible to fall without a -2 or -3 dexterity modifier when added to the half caster level bonus. With a good dex you can eventually reach auto success rates.

    For an alchemist +7 - if he puts a point int the fly skill that's +4.

    We will assume his dex is horrible and his net (for 1 skill point) is a +8 (-3 dex)

    That still puts him at needing to only roll a 2 or better to move less than 1/2 speed (5 foot step anyone?) and only needing a 7 or better to hover.

    That's from a single skill point.

    If he put 4-5 skill points in it he'd be in the 'only fail on a 1' for hover and 5 or better for a straight up.

    At some point he could realistically say 'why am I rolling' with a few more skill points - you can't fail a skill check on a 1 - so once he has a high enough skill that a 1 will bring him over the check needed he can stop making those rolls.

    The point being that it shouldn't be really that difficult.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Ohhhh I like that Latrecis - turn the hellknights against them :)

    Although be ready for the mess that could result if the players are fighting with an established order within Magnimar - although given the rest of the cities politics getting rid of them may actually be looked at in a favorable light (assuming they succeeded).

    Perhaps Ironbriar fled with his book and managed to take the list of murders with him - enough evidence to implicate him.

    The hellknights get the visit from X and want to arrest the players - but the players in the meantime get a lead on where Ironbriar is hiding - with a bunch of cultists (they weren't *all* in the sawmill after all) - and the hellknights try to arrest the players.

    So now the only way to clear their names is to find Ironbriar and the information that links him to the crimes.

    Or perhaps the players get arrested and when being questioned one notices the items and information showing the hellknights captured Ironbriar - now they are in prison (the small one the Hellknights keep) and need to get out and get the evidence to clear their names.

    Another possibility is that the leader of the Hellknights is in secret a member of the skinsaw cult....

    There are all kinds of threads that could be plucked here...

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    Peet wrote:

    Taking advantage of item crafting feats I find my players seem to be getting ahead of their WBL, actually. We have had a fifth player join the game, but at this stage I am not adjusting the treasure upwards as I feel they have enough loot at the moment. Splitting the loot five ways instead of four may solve the problem.

    I think for my next campaign I will get rid of crafting feats. I will say that by having the minimum level required by the feat and making the requisite skill check they can make any item they want... at full price. Let them spend feats on actual character abilities. My party oracle does all the crafting and he's a bit behind everyone else in terms of character power, partly because of this.


    FYI the rules are that a crafter *should* be ahead of WBL as the bonus for getting the feat. That makes it a powerful feat - *if* you let them creep ahead of the WBL curve. Otherwise you shouldn't let them take it if you feel you have to reduce treasure - at that point it doesn't help them.

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    Cerberus Seven wrote:
    felinoel wrote:

    I fly straight up and roll less than amazing and end up in the dirt right in front of the BBEG I was trying to fly away from.

    Why was flight nerfed so hard? I just wanted to get away from the mind controller before I murdered my party as commanded by the BBEG...


    First off, just in case you're missing something off your check: if you can use an extract of fly, you should have at least a +7 to the check from that alone (1/2 caster level [minimum 7th because alchemical] plus 4 for good maneuverability). If you've had at least a day or two to practice for a bit, then you should be able to put a minimum of one rank in it too, which also provides you a +3 class skill bonus.

    Right - +7 fly skill

    You can take 10 on this check - so if you don't put any points into the skill at all you have a +17 unless you are trying something really tricky or there is a hurricane.

    You should always be able to hover - you should always be able to move at a 45 degree angle (i.e. half speed up - note the 45 degree angle is a full speed move but you only move 1/2 the distance - it's 1/2 forward and 1/2 up)

    If you put a *single* point into the fly skill you get a +4 (3 for class skill) to the check.

    So lets assume you really dumped dex and it's a 4. That's a -3 on the check - so a 15 with take 10. That still lets you hover and move 1/2 speed without making a fly check. Is your Dex a 1?

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Well if you really want them to do their own thing - first get a goal that has urgency (If we don't find the mystical foozle within a week the green dragon is going to crush the town).

    Second setup 3 clues that point towards foozle - and make only one of them correct.

    When they sit there staring at you blankly remind them of all three clues and if they pick the wrong one - let them do it and possibly fail.

    First this is not an MMO and they should be able to fail based on their (in)action. Second if they realize that not all clues are valid they should start to think about paying attention to what they have and try a bit to find the correct one.

    Nothing is wrong about reminding the players what info they have, but they should have a bit of initiative on their own. It is very handy to have a 'start this quest' type NPC giving a task - but with just a bit of a jump start they should be able to pickup and run.

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    yazo wrote:
    the WotC D&D forums are filled with people who are less than useless,

    When you can classify an entire group as 'less than useless' I'm unsure the player is the problem.

    I'd suggest being open to others ideas and how they might like to play the game - and corroborate rather than shuffle people you disagree with as less than useless.

    But by the end of this post I'm sure I fit into that category.

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    leo1925 wrote:
    captain yesterday wrote:
    No, its not
    Can you elaborate a little?

    Dr. Who isn't a bad comparison - only because Baba Yaga is a ancient witch that travels through time and space and is (almost) invulnerable and (almost) omnipotent.

    She gets tricked into a trap at the start of the adventure and your group gets picked to help her out - mostly due to being in the wrong place at the right time (this part of the story is the easiest to modify depending on how much your party would be willing to help an evil witch).

    After that happens they get access to her hut which takes them to different worlds, times, and locations to located parts and bits needed to free her from the trap she's in - conversely the adventure has a *huge* amount of variation on locations, creatures, and situations that they find themselves in.

    It's not everyone's cup of tea but honestly if you can get into the idea of time/space travel through an artifact the theme and goals of the adventures are pretty well interconnected and there isn't much in terms of 'what do we do now george?'.

    That being said it could also be accused of being the most railroad-y AP they have written. Once down the golden brick road you don't really have the ability to step off.

    The second most would be Legacy of Fire - after a certain point you are stuck on tracks with no way off for a long time. (I like both FYI - YMMV depending on what your preferences are)

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    Chess Pwn wrote:
    graystone wrote:

    The idea is that no matter what combination of weapons you have, based on actual hands, you can only gain normal strength damage with your main attack and .5 strength with your off hand attack(s). So is you, for instance, have a greatsword, you'd deal normal x1 damage instead of x1.5 if used in two weapon fighting.

    That would have also solved what the DEV's seemed to be balking at (someone getting more than 1.5 strength damage from attacks [1.5 two handed + .5 offhand for x2 damage total])

    It was floated as a MUCH easier way to 'solve' the issues that where 'solved' with the armor spikes FAQ.

    But with this proposed you can have THW at 1.0, bladed boot .5, boulder helm .5, armor spikes .5, and kick .5. That's 3x str. Take double slice and then you'd have 5x str. All with just two-weapon fighting. all at only a -2 since the off hands are all light.

    No I'm pretty sure it's more like this:

    You can have any # of weapons wielded at any given time. However you can only ever make 2 attacks per 'BAB iterative' - one at 1.5 Str -or 2 with one being 1.0 str and the other at .5 str.

    That would allow you to dual wield a 2h sword and gauntlet or armor spikes by using the lower damage multiplier for the sword and thus the lower power attack scale as well.

    I'm unsure where you'd add more attacks in under that rule vs. the 'hands' ruling we have now.

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