Well for me I like to remember it's not the GM's job to root for the npc's - it's just to make interesting and fun encounters for the players.
While I'd add some tactics that make the monk work a bit at it - I'd also argue here that if the party is taking time to buff the monk up - they obviously are enjoying this type of play.
The question isn't 'is the monk too powerful' - but 'could the party do as much using 4 spells in other ways?'.
2 second level and 2 first level spells may not seem like a 'huge' investment - but it's still an investment - for a single encounter it's pretty steep - the last wizard I played (level 7 oddly) tried to keep his spells per encounter to 2 unless there was an emergency - those slots could be devoted instead to things that cause problems for the monsters.
We started with a large group - ranger, rogue, wizard, alchemist, barbarian, temple sword monk, cleric.
Running with 7 wasn't my big cup of tea but we were all friends and we made it work rather than cutting people out.
The real life specter hit and we lost the ranger, barb, and temple monk (most of the front line).
So 2nd go around was rogue, wizard, alchemist, cleric (to be fair the cleric is playing the front line fighter pretty well - at least when his dice work well - he really built him to be a fighter to begin with).
After the rogue died we found that the player was on the verge of taking a break for real life as well (kids were back in school) - our cleric and rogue are married in RL so ... RL sucks.
We did add a halfling cavalier in Thistletop itself - so the party as it now stands is:
Cleric, Alchemist, Wizard, Cavalier.
I use a house rule that is based on hero points - that is every level each person gets 'a hero point' that can be used as a 'my character avoided death' token, once used they don't get another until they level up. The details of how they survived are left to GM discretion to make a more compelling narrative. I do this mainly to avoid the jaded gamer syndrome where players are so paranoid of trying something risky and/or heroic. So we are hoping to get our rogue back in the game at some point when RL calms down. This will be made easier in the story because the party put her into the empty crypt in the church and placed the medallion on her to preserve her body - which was really touching.
My dwarven cleric did the test - and actually won - rolled a natural 20 on his save.
After this he asked for 'just a tad' of the slime in his beer and made it a point to visit for this special drink every time he came in.
Once the parties rep had gone up enough I figured that they added the drink to the menu and the locals were drinking the stuff too (although just a tad is a little less for everyone else).
It was weird - but the players loved it - and yes they saw the video - but really who can understand why dwarves like anything?
My party did Thistletop in three goes.... it was... wierd lol.
They found the fort and made some great sneak checks to scout a bit of the tunnels - then camped for the night down on the beach.
They then went back in and the rogue was scouting out the tunnels again solo - this time she was spotted and a chase through the briars ensued - because she was a gnome it was pretty much a straight up chase (good for her) - they managed to catch up to her *just* at the entrance - where the party crawled in and helped out killing several of the goblins - however after the fight they were pretty much done - they didn't supply well and decided to head back to get a refresh.
(note at this time I had some players quit due to RL - which matters to the next part in terms of why I decided to give them a little 'help')
They left thistletop basically after fighting the goblin 'wannabes' and that had alerted Grogmurt - he and his friend followed them through the woods (they made no attempt to hurry or hide) and ambushed them with an entangle spell.
This encounter went very badly - several PC's dropped and were brought back by either channel or potions at various points - the 'friend' was basically eating them alive - although grogmurt for the most part didn't really do much at all to them (very bad rolls).
At one point with the party changes and lack of supplies it looked like it would be a TPK - because they were in the woods and not in thistletop itself I had their ranger friend show up and help take down the cougar.
They went back to town - healed up and re-supplied - leveled up - and went back to the goblin fortress the next day.
GM Note - I thought about how to deal with the emptying of the front of thistletop and decided that with the current 'fighting' between grogmurt and the king that grogmurt was effectively banished for the moment and the goblins on the main island were partying it up over the capture of the horse - because of this I decided that they hadn't noticed the lack of communication from the thistle tunnels yet when the party returned - mostly because the feud made silence between grogmurt and the king pretty normal for the past week or so.
So the party went back - avoided the goblin dogs that were left in the thislte tunnels - and made it to the bridge - they managed to disarm the trap and avoid detection from the goblins attacking the seagulls on the other side of the island - they went into the trophy room and checked several doors and found the stairs going down.
What does my party do? They go straight down.
Eventually this is how the 'clearing of thistletop' ended up happening:
Find the bugbear and girls - take them out (one goblin wife managed to keep them busy for about 6 rounds because of really bad rolls - however the bugbear only lasted 3 rounds total due to a well placed grease spell).
Orick investigated that noise and is subdued - they then put him in the prison area - they open the chapel and a hound howls causing mayhem - they managed to close the door and avoid that fight - after this they explore just a little more and find the mage and take her out pretty quickly. They find the 'other' door to the chapel and fight both hounds - by this time the goblins have sent some guards to see what the commotion is about - they see the party and run - one is caught the other gets help. The king barricades himself in his throne room and the rest of the fort basically heads down to fight - because of the different locations (and lack of planning) this leads to waves of goblins pouring in and hitting the PC's at different points.
They go back up top and find the king and his throne room and take him out.
They then explore the rest of level 2 and take out the tentamort.
Now they moved on to level 3 - still without resting mind you - and find Nualia - a very tough fight only survived because the mage had held back a single summons and the earth elemental he brought out managed a very nice crit.
After this they rested - explored level 3 - couldn't figure out the pillars (very bad rolls from *everyone*) they fought the shadows - then found the crab - the rogue had seen the glint in the water and went to explore and the rest of the party wandered off - so the crab ended up grabbing the rogue and this was the first character death of the adventure - the constriction damage was *bad*.
After the crab they decided to take their dead companion back to town and manage the hauling of the loot - on the way out they used a variety of spells and a summoned fire elemental to burn the top level down to the ground.
Now they are back in town - we took a break at the end of the book (to swap AP's and GM's and keep it fresh) they had just been approached by the sheriff about some murders that happened in town where one of the characters names was scrawled on a wall.
The basis of the 'cannot die' argument seems to rely on 'cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning' part.
See the second part however that states 'attack forms that don't deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration.
What exactly doesn't deal hit point damage that can still hurt a creature? That is explain to me how a creature can be hurt without taking hit point damage where this line is needed.
The only effects that 'hurt' a creature that do not deal hit point damage are death effects.
As to suffocation - it's specifically called out as not affected - if you google 'how to kill a Tarresque as a level 3 character' you'll note that the suffocation exemption has been used for years as a factor in how to put the beast down - along with level drain and con drain.
The order of exemptions goes like so:
You left out the part that tells you the answer.
Disintegrate: the spell states if the spell does more damage than the creatures current hit points it turns into a pile of ash - this is a secondary effect that does damage that is not based on hit points.
Death-effect: save or die - if they fail the save does it do hit point damage to kill them? If not they die.
Energy drain: If they loose more levels than they have HD they die - is this based on hit points? No - it's based on Hit Dice - because it's not hit point damage they die.
While most GM's will go bonkers at you creating money like this - it's all game balance. You'll note that in the adventure paths evil wizards use tricks like this all the time to justify how they have: a base, an army, magical items and or rituals that are absurd in cost, entire cities made of gold.
That's just from Rise of the Runelords - other tricks include pocket demiplanes of gold/gems with giant armies to mine them and things that would munchkin a regular game.
I wouldn't call it 'abuse' - I would call it 'making the game unbalanced if you let your players do this'.
Not quite the same thing - in my own games I might let the players do this for a personal item, and or perhaps if they came up with a real need for cash quickly - but if someone wanted to do this wholesale I'd just tell them they are now an NPC - considering they want to run a 'Shops and Marketplace' game instead of (tongue in cheek) 'dungeons and dragons'.
SKR is now on the development team and is the voice for the 'design team' posts is he not? James Jacobs is the one who gets overridden - but I don't blame him - he goes out of his way to say 'in my game I do this because it makes it more fun' - it's not the same thing as a 'this is how the rules work' thing.
You think True Seeing too powerful? Is it being abused?
Components V, S, M (an eye ointment that costs 250 gp)
At the levels when you start to use this spell - 250gp isn't break the bank expensive - but it's still enough to keep this spell on the 'when needed' category instead of 'on a whim'.
You can always use Nondetection (a lower level spell) for some type of protection (as it forces all divination spells used against the target to make a caster level check to overcome the spell).
On a side note as druids wild shape is a supernatural ability and not actually a polymorph I'd say it's up to the GM if they want to allow true seeing to see anything. But that's my opinion.
Many of the artists who illustrate for pathfinder have deviant art pages - some of them also work on commission.
How much is pretty much up to the artist but I'd expect a fair price of 150+ per illustration depending on size and complexity.
The (my opinion of course) way to get what you want is to go browse the artists work and find one that works in a style you love. And if that artist doesn't have a commission page? Send them an email! Worst they can do is say no - and if an artist says they can't/don't have time - be happy - not many are so busy they can refuse work (looking at you Wayne Reynolds!)
This goes critically double for something you want to put on your body permanently.
My vote is base damage increases on the blade itself, not on your bonuses though.
The increased critical range isn't part of the doubling of the base damage - it's just how the sword functions - so feats that increase crit range will only take it up one step - which is still a ton.
OK - I now have every pawn made so far - and in the next 3 months I expect to get Bestiary 2, then Reign of Winter, and then Bestiary 3.
That's alot of pawns.
I love these things - they are awesome. They look great - they play great - they look awesome next to mini's.
So what kind of cool stuff can you do with this line next? Much like the 'cards' series I'd love to see you put out a set that is "Conditions/Buffs/Debuffs" - this could be as simple as 'slotted to fit on top of the pawn' to something that is supposed to be on the mat itself.
I'd love a set of 'dead/unconscious monster player' tokens as well. Possibly some that indicate fire/grease/ice/etc. would also be cool.
Note that this is just a suggestion - there are many many conditions/effects/temporary terrain conditions which the pawns (IMO) could represent well - I wouldn't expect these to be a major set - but I think that these types of pawns would be a great product.
James Jacobs wrote:
Wow - people really thought he was easy? I was running him with a 7 person party and he almost TPK'd the group - the adventure assumes everyone is still level 1 when they fight him and he's got a pretty high AC and some very good saves for a 1st level group.
I ended that fight with 3 PC's on the ground - 1 with only 2 hps left, and no party resources left at the end of the fight.
And that was just playing him straight up.
Joshua Goudreau wrote:
As a semi-related question now that my original one has been answered, how does so much play get fit into the existing AP space? Story and encounter design being what it is I am curious how 20 levels of play can be fit into what is usually enough space for 15-16 levels of play? Has the layout been changed or is it just a result of the inclusion of mythic encounters?
From the mythic playtest - once you have mythic levels your start getting CR+4 encounters as 'normal' and take on much higher level stuff.
The exp isn't changed because you are mythic - the exp curve and level formula only use the 'non-mythic' side - so you end up with a *very* fast advancement curve. Although I will say based on the blurbs about the adventures you spend at least the first few levels as 'normal' and then things quicken up - most of the adventure paths are 2-3 levels per book - sometimes four. This one looks like it will be a hard 4 - more likely 4.5 per - considering the exp change from epic it shouldn't feel outrageously different.
One of my players won the purse from Norah's tank - and now stops in every time they are in town to get a mug with 'some of that water' added.
Given the popularity of the party in town I figured it has become a popular drink and so it now one of the best sellers :)
The nice thing about the town really is that the AP has a very serious lack of funds to start out with - but this is very balanced by the 'helpful townfolk' who really go out of their way to give the characters some nice stuff.
Shattered Star assumed RotRL happened - and Second Darkness - and Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Jade Regent assumed RotRL happened.
If they played it right advancing the timeline could be an entirely new product line - with monthly or bi-monthly status :) I know I'd sub in a second.
2 things about this encounter:
1. You can buy holy water for cheap. 25g a bottle - assuming you guys have done the glassworks you should have been able to find enough loot to buy some of this stuff (and it's super cheap if you have a cleric).
That's 2d4 dmg on a touch attack to shadows - everyone in the group should carry 1-2 flasks of this stuff for 'undead' emergencies - it works against anything undead with no DR applied.
2. You can still move with strength damage - as others have said.
Hopefully you guys can learn from this and think about some consumables to carry for situations like this.
Shadows aren't the only monster that some cheap consumable items really help against - diminutive swarms (weapons can't hurt them) - puddings - other types of monsters with high DR...
Acid ignores most DR and Holy Water ignores all undead DR - tanglefoot bags can make an 'impossible to hit' enemy just a 'hard to hit' enemy - at some point you will most likely have enough stuff to ignore the consumables but they are very nice to have through much of an adventuring career.
In a world with monsters and such - how does your average village survive? Well 100 villagers with acid flasks can take out some very nasty monsters - including many sizes of dragons :)
I'm not a fan of how the OP crafted his post - but after distilling it I'll chime in with a 'me too' vote - however I'd like to offer a compromise a bit in my request like so...
Example #1 - Sandpoint - why is this so awesome - well each place has a shop - a name - a bit of personality - and some notes on how they interact with the rest of the town.
I have been running RoTRL with my group and all I needed to make that town come alive was my town guide with these notes - every shop NPC has been different and interesting to my players because all I needed was a few notes on personality and how the NPC interacts to make a 'real' town come alive.
Example #2 - City of Monuments - awesome book - lots of info I needed on Magnimar - however the city is so large it won't ever have the 'plop down and play' value of Sandpoint.
Example #3 - ISWG - awesome book - almost nothing that is 'play ready' for the GM without alot of fleshing out - I'm not saying the book wasn't awesome - in fact at my table 7 out of 8 people love it - and the last one just isn't a big book buyer so has no opinion, that should say alot.
Taking all 3 above here is what I'd love to see happen - make a *player companion* that take a 'who's who' of a town/city etc. and takes give us a bit of a tour of the place - along with NPC's and personalities - interactions (rumors that may or may not be true). This doesn't have to be a town - it can be a secret network, a bit higher level as a country setting - a village, whatever.
There is a reason gossip rags sell well - something written the players can dive into - that can also be super useful for a GM would be handy, as well as giving more depth to a place.
I would love something like that - and I think if it's something written as a player travel guide it would be something your players would buy and read - and if you used a 'gossip rag' format - it would be easy enough for a GM to ignore or change any detail without feeling 'hemmed in' by an official text entry.
Marc Radle wrote:
I would say they are similar (in hand feeling I didn't use a scale) to the pre-printed wizkids.
They are OMG light compared to a metal mini. Depending on your table (physical that is) and how boisterous your group is you may want to weigh them down - my table is pretty sedate other than the random runaway dice roll so it's not a big deal for me. Over on the reaper forums people have mentioned using metal washers that fit under the base to add weight to them - and they are cheap (the metal washers that is - find a size that works and typically you can get a bag for a few bucks).
As to the primer - the bones will work with paint *out of the bottle* - specifically after watching a half dozen vids of people testing out paint on them - paint out of the bottle seems to work fine - with reaper paints actually behaving better (not a surprise really - opinion only here but the reaper paints really do perform well).
The problem there is - acrylic paint dries very fast - most people will mix a paint flow medium and water to the paint - this increases the flow of the paint from the brush to the mini and keeps the paint 'wet' longer - more advanced painters even use a 'wet palette' which keeps the paint from drying out.
If you do this - your paint is thinner than it is out of the bottle - this doesn't work so well on an unprimed bones plastic mini.
So the claim is true - paint (not ink) goes on to an unprimed just fine. If you plan to thin your paint or use ink however you will find a primer coat works as well and makes the mini paint just like a metal one.
Also in case you might think the plastic gives less detail - I point you to this thread over at reaper:
One is a metal - the other is plastic - I'm not sure the plastic is going to be preferred for competition level painting but I don't think I will ever doubt that the bones will carry all the detail that I want/need for my gaming table. :)
Yes they do.
You then go on to point out definitions for the alignment - which I'm not arguing - I'm talking about the code.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
If the authority is legitimate - then she must respect it. If she doesn't she falls. No alignment juggle here.
That line alone conflicts with the rest of the code - because you can't be ultimate law *and* good when there is ultimate *law* and *evil* in the world.
Unless the code is bendable - then we are back to 'which axis is more important'.
You are taking both sides of the argument and it's disingenuous. You can't have a 'break the code and fall' on the same line as 'it's not as restrictive as you are making it'.
I didn't say it was restrictive - I say the code is flexible it's the good part that's rigid.
A paladin's deity can be LN - as such the head of the church in such a case can be LE.
I have trouble envisioning a paladin not regarding the head of their own church as not legitimate - even if they disagree.
As I pointed out the authority was legitimate. As I pointed out your code is absolute - so in each case the paladin would need to respect the legitimate authority.
Case 1) - he can choose to disobey - but that's putting good above the law - a chaotic action. He can choose to obey the law - by committing an evil act, then he falls. As stated the king is legitimate - you can't just decide to ignore the law when it's against your ethics - that's chaotic.
Case 2) - he can't go wage war on a plane where his very presence is against the law - that'd be a chaotic action.
Case 3) - he can go inform the king and leave the innocents to suffer - he'd be following his alignment - but not the code. You can't save people from the law - that's chaotic. He could try to stop the sheriff but that's against the law as well. Chaotic. What exactly are his options when confronted by evil that is operating within the law? Nothing if his code is rigid.
In each of these cases the lawful part of his alignment infringes on his ability to be a champion of virtue. Because laws can be evil (and frequently are) making his alignment a straight jacket along both axis force him into situations where there is no good solution - it's too absolute.
No other class has anything even close to that kind of restriction on alignment - it takes more than a single good act to make an evil person good - and vice versa. It takes more than one stolen loaf of bread to change someone from lawful to chaotic.
A paladin already has a single absolute - one evil act. There is nothing that states a single chaotic act causes them to fall - enforcing the code as a 'one shot you fall' is too restrictive.
Paladin enters the throne room of the legitimate king and is told to execute the high priest of his god, who radiates good like a sun, and whose death would break the church.
A lawful order - his choice is fall or fall, due to the code.
If he kills the priest - he commit an evil act. If he does not he breaks the law - of a legitimate authority.
If the code is absolute you can't disobey the king, who is a legitimate authority.
A paladin goes to hell and kills a devil - he falls. Hell is a plane run by devils - and they are the legitimate authorities of the plane - by killing a devil he breaks their laws - and thus by the code he falls.
A paladin is in charge of an army waging a war against the evil king Foozle (the war - being declared makes the action legal of course) - he is captured - now he's a prisoner and told to reveal the plans of his army or the evil king Foozle will sacrifice 100 children to a demon. His choice is to betray his kingdom or sacrifice children - what a choice.
It's easier than that really.
The good king clement sets up a major kingdom - while traveling through the kingdom our paladin comes into the hamlet of Nottingham where he find the LE sheriff abusing his power. The sheriff of course radiates evil like a black hole. Unfortunately he's the legitimate authority and the paladin has no ability to interfere.
The sheriff rubs this in the paladins face and then shows the paladin the law stating 'a person who doesn't pay their taxes is the same as someone who steals from the king' - then he pulls out another volume with an ancient but still valid law allowing him to draw and quarter anyone who steals from the king - and explains that because of the poor harvest no one in town could pay and so he has the right to kill anyone at any time in the most horrific way possible. The peasants are innocent and...
punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
So what part of the code does the paladin obey here - he can choose to go inform the king - and the sheriff points out that if the paladin leaves he will make sure everyone is punished before he can get back - or he can stand by and watch, because interfering with the kings appointed man is against the law, even if done for good reasons.
Some paragon of good.
That's the problem with a code that is inflexible.
Having painted some of these as a test - inks don't work on the base plastic well.
More so than metal mini's you want to wash these with some soap and water then let dry - they use a compound to release the plastic from the mold and if there is any residue after you are done painting your paint will just flake off - not good - a wash keeps this from happening so it's *super* important on the bones.
After the wash I prime them with spray on kylon (krylon? sp?) - after they are primed they paint just like any metal mini - other than the fact that they can float away with a sharp breath :)
Because they are so light - you might find you like using a metal washer along with a base of some sort (glue the washer to the base - glue the mini to the base (other side)) to give them a bit of weight - they don't fall over when used without - but they are *very* light.
Once all this is done - you will find that after painted and coated they are *much* more durable than a metal mini - you can keep a dozen of them in a plastic bag (loose) and they won't chip each other or mar the paint.
Some people have done experiments with a painted figure by running it over with a car and only had a slight mar - not that I recommend that - but that should show you they are much more durable than a metal figure.
I'm not sure how I'm going to tackle the translucents - obviously I won't want to prime them so I'll most likely be using reaper paint straight from the bottle (no thinners) to add highlights for those.
That's another thing - ink won't/doesn't work on an unprimed bones figure - and thinned out paint (using flow enhancer and water for instance) causes similar problems from the vid's I've seen - straight paint from the bottle seems to stick without an issue - but that means you don't have much time to work with the paint before it dries up on you. That's why I prefer the primer.
Yes and as this thread shows - too many GM's look at the fall line and think that they must come up with a way to trap the paladin into some kind of catch 22.
The old... 'if you go back in time would you kill the bad guy' thing. Players too tend to feel like they can't do anything out of line with a paladin in the party, because the rules setup the paladin as a hall monitor - when it's intended to be a champion of good - the entire part about a 'paladin working with evil if it can benefit the good' shows that there is alot of room for the stick to bend without breaking.
A single chaotic act doesn't change your alignment - and in a paladin's case (special case) a single evil act tosses you down the well.
Golarian campaign wise there are codes that allow paladins to lie - so the code already is flexible and it seems would depend on your deity and how the campaign is being run. This to me certainly spells out that the guys making the rules intended paladins to have some ability to flex without breaking at each possible moment.
The fact that so many people want to make them paladins into a hollow concrete pole that breaks with the slightest movement to any side shows why there is such rancor over this subject.
If the code was so rigid you wouldn't ever see such iconic things as 'a paladin in hell' - because hell is legitimate - and the code says a paladin will accept legitimate authority.
I shudder to think of a world where a paladin goes off to battle evil and stops at the river because that's evil king Foozle's realm... and well you know he's the legitimate king there so he can slaughter babies all he likes and there is nothing I can do about it because of the code.
The code can cause a paladin to do evil - because any lawful evil person will know the code and use it as a whip to get the paladin to do whatever they want - as long as the law is legitimate. That's just a fine paradox you place any player in by making it so rigid, and why I can't support that kind of stance.
I'd sure give a paladin who tosses his code as worthless the fall condition - but one who would break the code after consideration - knowing that he risks his status if he choose wrong - and does so trying to uphold the greater values shouldn't be considered fallen. Way too many people though look at this as a way to trap the player and that's why paladins turn into these unthinking 'big bag of lawful stoopid' tropes you see - because if they don't they get bitten by the 'hahahaha if you tell the truth you screw your party and if you lie you fall' traps (or other such contrivances.)
Ecaterina Ducaird wrote:
This isn't a fall or temptation or moment of weakness here we're talking about with being an Anti. This is full blown "I'm evil as sin and enjoy actively promoting evil in others."
Would it have to be though? A demon or devil that fooled the paladin (it's possible to do with the right magical protection against the flashlight of justice... I mean detect evil) could convince the paladin that a course was right and just - and corrupt the guy into a moment when he changes - now he's stuck and perhaps didn't even realize that he changed.... That would take some work in game and good RP in co-ordination with the GM to pull off - but the story of a guy who is prodded into the wrong path until he can't tell what he stood for and then finds redemption is a strong one.
I'd say paladins of Sarenrae could always redeem no matter what (just because it's the nature of the deity) - other than that I think it would depend on the story and how the fall happened.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Well considering the arguments that get written about a single word that is phrased oddly in a rule (sunder, spell combat, haste, monk FoB) the RaW in this case are as clear as you can be - they spell out the clause that can make a paladin fall - and it's a single line with a period.
No ambiguity or odd phrases - no odd wording with double meaning or possibly misunderstood words.
A GM can stretch it however they want in their own game - but from the rulebook itself there aren't all these grey areas.
Just to chime in - but looking at the rules...
A paladin looses his status if he knowingly commits an evil act.
He can do an unlawful act - he's still a paladin.
He can lie if it serves the good. He's still a paladin.
He can break his code - he's still a paladin.
He can be charmed and do something against his will - he's still a paladin.
They have to knowingly commit an evil act to fall.
Would the above acts ... should the above acts cause the paladin to seek some kind of atonement - yes - but not necessarily through the spell - that's a right that is only required if you fall.
Anything else is RP opportunity - personally I think people get to wrapped up in the 'code' and forget there is only a single line in the rules that result in a fall from grace - and the line is not vague or unclear....
Some paladin codes (in the PF campaign world) actually encourage a paladin to lie if needed - some don't - none of them can cause a paladin to fall from grace.
The code is a personal RP structure to let the paladin judge himself against - it's exactly the kind of thing a paladin is encouraged to do - that is judge his actions himself - that's part of what sets him apart from the rest of the fighters.
I would chime in with the following:
knowledge for monsters is typically DC 10+HD - but don't always just use that as a basis - take into account how well known monsters are as well.
Consider that almost every culture on our own world has some kind of vampire legend - so finding a bloodsucker shouldn't be cause for 'I have no idea what this could be' - you can even have fun with it and make weaknesses that mold with local legends (weak against silver here, but only cold iron in this region... etc)
I tend to give away mook monsters (goblins, orcs, etc.) and try to take into account how well known a monster is in the area or how well talked about it might be.
Play up local legends and let the player research a bit to help them out also :) A party that takes time to look up what they are fighting shouldn't really even need to make a check.
That being said in your specific case I would have the balance how strict I want to keep the game with the idea that your 11 year old is so excited he's going to the library to do outside the game research on what they are fighting - honestly do the positives (getting your kid engaged and into the library and learning research skills that will be *very* helpful through his life) outweigh the game concerns here?
I know what I'd do - but it's your kid and your game so I'm not going to presume :)
Schnibbles Rumblebelly wrote:
I use HP 4x6 photo paper and print the PDF's using 'fit to size' (making sure my printer is setup for 4x6 paper in the printer properties) - they come out perfect at that size.
Just remember that the cost of purchasing a spell isn't the cost of a scroll - it's the cost of copying the spell from another caster.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
so using the table referenced on the same page:
0 x 2.5
Also not true, barring special abilities, since Aid Another is a standard action - you only get one per round, and if you used it to aid the trip you can't use it to Aid an AoO.
Missed that - thank you :)
Even assuming the Magus had this on a scroll (we know he didn't have it prepared), there's a Fort half which the half-dragon paladin was almost guaranteed to make with his +17, so you're probably looking at only a -1 penalty to things with this spell. Nice, but not a game-changer.
Yeah at the time of posting I didn't know what kind of magic they had other than 'no level 2 spells yet' - I used that as just an example of the kind of magic that helps against 'can't hit this guy' type of thing. When you are looking at moving him from 'only hit on a 20' every -1 helps.
You can disarm on an AoO, but you cannot trip as an AoO when someone is standing up from prone. Also, unless someone in the party has Improved Trip/ Improved Disarm you'll provoke an AoO for trying and the damage dealt is subtracted from your trip attempt, so good luck with that. Maybe if you get him to take his AoO earlier in the round on someone who was maneuvering into flanking position? Maybe?
Well I was thinking that ideally you'd take the pain with setting up the sticky bomb and flank and eat the AoO to trip him - once he's prone do the disarm on the inevitable stand up - because of prone the disarm has a much greater chance of working (at least that's what I was thinking).
If you can disarm him on the 'stand up' ideally action economy would kick in and at least *someone* would have the ability to grab his sword and run off - and then you can trip/grapple/whatever because he's now unarmed and thus doesn't threaten.
To the OP...
Assuming we had all of these things and assuming he didn't make the DC 15 reflex save, and at +7 all he has to do is roll an 8. and even if that didnt work he could break free with a str check of 11, which is doable
The save is to keep from being stuck - as long as you make the *touch* attack to hit - he's entangled and thus has the 'suck' penalty - the 'stuck' is really just a 'might get lucky' against a big bad - the awesome thing about the tanglefoot bag is the entangled condition that you *can't* save for and *can't* get rid of with a strength check - that's only for the stuck part.
Hid the rules behind the spoiler to keep the response clearer - in essence it's within the rules. - however (based on the parts I bolded above) you have to remember the following:
The rage spell lasts for 1 round per level if they are not concentrating - so your 4th level bard will get 5 rounds of rage (1 on the round he casts - plus 4 more when he spams his wand)
The moment of greatness only amps up one roll - not everything so one attack or damage roll - not all of them - and not both attack and damage.
Also for this all to work everyone has to be clustered together - within 50ft of the bard.
If my players were doing this I'd use stuff like this on them.... (and yes - I'd do it over and over until they stopped trying to cheese :P)
We use a pizza 'thingy' (the plastic pronged thing in the middle of like a papa johns pizza) and put the person on that for flying/levitate.
after that it's a bit complicated - typically just remember that your 'combat zone' is all 5 foot squares - even up or down - and that means everything is at a right triangle to everything else at all times (for combat resolution).
Knowing that you can use a(squared) + b(squared) = c(squared) and a calculator to do the math to give you distances.
For instances - 5 foot away and 5 feet in the air = 7.5 feet from the character - if you follow the rest of the grid anything less than 10 feet away is within your 'attack space' - so that's within melee.
5 foot away and 10 foot up is 11.18 feet away so it's 'outside' of a normal melee range but within reach weapon distance.
for flying creatures if they are trying to attack each other they (outside of trying to be very complex) are assumed to be 'level' enough to just call it a normal grid map (but in the air).
You can use the 'right triangle' method to get the range for bows and spells as well when there is a wall or other elevation feature to the map - also remember to use the 'on higher ground' feature:
On higher ground +1 attack
If you want a nice house rule give bows an additional 20 feet of range increment when elevated at least 10 feet above the enemy.
A tanglefoot bag is a small sack filled with tar, resin, and other sticky substances. When you throw a tanglefoot bag at a creature (as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet), the bag comes apart and goo bursts out, entangling the target and then becoming tough and resilient upon exposure to air. An entangled creature takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be glued to the floor, unable to move. Even on a successful save, it can move only at half speed. Huge or larger creatures are unaffected by a tanglefoot bag. A flying creature is not stuck to the floor, but it must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be unable to fly (assuming it uses its wings to fly) and fall to the ground. A tanglefoot bag does not function underwater.
So a touch attack - his touch AC should be 11 (+1 dex) so easy to hit - that gives him a -2 to hit and -4 to dex
So now he's +14 to hit and AC 28 (-4 dex = -2 AC) and there is no save against that - he can save to avoid getting stuck (which he will unless he rolls a 1) but he's now got some suck.
So another touch attack - his touch ac should now be 9 (dex penalty) and that's 1d6 damage if you hit - no save - no DR (unless he has acid resistance).
Flasks of acid are 10g each - honestly those or alchemical fire are really handy for *everyone* to have a couple (or more) as they stop swarms and are great against 'uber armor'
These fill a 10 foot square - and you can put them behind you so the smoke is in *your* square but not his - that gives you concealment and thus a miss chance for him - but he's not in the smoke so you can still hit him. A rogues best friend as when they have concealment they can sneak attack. The smoke lasts for 1 minute (10 rounds) so unless there is a wind you have some time.
Toss these on his square - now because of the tanglefoot you need to make an attack roll for AC 11 (10, -1 dex, +2 armor) and if they hit he's at half speed.
These are 1g per use.
Now flank him - and he's at AC 26.
His CMD is 10 +5 (bab) +8 (str) -1 (dex) so 22 - you are going to have a hard time with any combat maneuvers - however if you aid each other you might be able to get a trip or a disarm off. - remember flank adds to your CMB.
Assuming your fighter is level 3 with a 18 str - you are at +7 to hit - with flank +9 - so you should be able to trip or disarm him with a roll of 13 or better. Have someone aid your action and now you are at a 11 or better to disarm or trip.
Now we are in workable territory. Remove his weapon - get him on the ground. Now he's prone.
Prone is -4 AC and -4 to hit - so now he's at 22 AC and +12 to hit (assuming you didn't disarm him yet) - and his CMD is down to 18 - so you can disarm him even easier once he's on the ground. Getting up is an AoO and he *still has the penalties while he gets up* *and* you can trip or disarm on an AoO.
If more than one of you gets an AoO on him - you can also aid the other person's AoO.
In short - a bit of gold on equipment that (honestly) everyone should carry and some smart tactics *can* get this guy down.
That's without any spells.
Have your wizard toss a ray of enfeeblement on him and you can lower his CMB and CMD, to hit and damage with one spell... and that's a level 1 spell.
It's doable - assuming you went in with a plan and didn't roll a bunch of 1's on the dice (that's always my problem).
But I'll give you - this is a tough encounter - without taking a moment to think about how to get him down it can easily be a wash.
Vic Wertz wrote:
Hrmmm - just a thought - but for the really 'biguns' perhaps instead of a 'token' go for a 'popup' 3-d model - doesn't have to be complex - just something that gives the 'space' with the cool artwork :)
I'd say a 'square' base with slots on each side of the square to take up the space but that would be even more sheets to the mix and thus increase the price - not sure if there is a good solution but if there is I figure you guys can figure it out!
And yes one can hope and dream :)
Gentle Repose takes care of keeping the body fresh - but reincarnation doesn't say the body has to be in any kind of shape - it doesn't even say it needs a body - it just needs the death to be within a week.
It's a time restriction not a body restriction.
So long as some small portion of the creature's body still exists
Reincarnation works on a fingernail (based on the wording above) - the benefits of the spell are that it works with almost nothing - but the drawbacks are you get a new body.
It's the only 'raise' spell that requires so little until you get to Resurrection.
Resurrection only works for death within 10 years per caster level.
True Resurrection doesn't need the body but it's still 10 years per caster level.
I get you can 'dm fiat' it but the spells themselves wouldn't have worked outside of a wish or miracle (by RAW anyway).
I have to ask how in the world did you allow a reincarnation when...
With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than 1 week before the casting of the spell and the subject's soul is free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
I'd say it just didn't work period - if you wanted to get cheeky about it and let it happen he runs off to the big K who has plenty of (wishes) ways to make him a giant again - and just add him as another boss/bad guy at the end.
Early on someone posted a 'items cards' using open office - I've updated these for the AV version and have finished Burnt Offerings - all player loot that is in the module (except coins) is represented here - enjoy :)
It takes serious work to keep a group together - and the ability to bring new people in and let old ones go and still have fun.
That said if there is a Pathfinder Society event(s) that happens in your area I think you'll find it's a great way to meet other people who play and possibly make friends (which leads to groups) - it's also a way to enjoy playing without having a set group if you are very busy.
Our problem atm is that the group is just *slightly* too large... we have 7 players + a GM - and at least 2-3 more that *could* play. And it's honestly better to deal with the madness of a large party than tell someone not now - because life can be full of unexpected and your 7 person group can be 3 in a heartbeat.
Also I notice that many groups seem to get together for 'marathon' sessions (6+ hours) - and with our group we find it easier to do a 3 hour session once a week - outside of holidays it's always the same day - for a few hours - and that makes it something nice and predictable you can work around - as well as not such a huge timesink that people will find reasons that keep them away.
Here is what I would do...
Your group is 3 full BAB classes - 2 utility - and 1 arcane - for the fight above I would have increased the HPS on everything by 100% over what's in the book.
The zombies are 71 hps each so that would put them at 142 hps each - the boss at 252 hps.
142hps - 54 chain lightning - 26 channel - (cleric 13d6 - assuming like 40ish dmg) that leaves them taking full damage from everyone and having 20ish hps left.
We'll assume the ranger still takes one out - that leaves 3 zombies to at least *try* to get a shot off on the first round and they are targets for round 2 giving the HL a shot at another attack.
Given that room they are in is 120' x 60' I'd have made sure that they were spread out a bit so one channel didn't get all of them - or the channeler would have had to take an AoO to move into position to get them all
Given that your group is a level up you could add channel resistance to the zombies to make it even slightly harder - give the zombies the ability to give the HL 2 rounds (1 to cast fear and 2nd to summon the 9 fast human zombies) - add into that this is meant to be a 'easy to normal encounter' at this point of the dungeon and you have an encounter that makes them use up channels per day/arrows/possibly a bit of healing but doesn't pose a serious risk to them unless the dice are *extremely unlucky* or they do something silly...
That sounds about right to me - but that's my two cents - you'll find increasing hps on stuff with that much raw firepower in your group lets it stand up *just* slightly long enough to be a threat I think.
Just my thoughts....
Craig Mercer wrote:
Yeah I don't mean upping the CR - you can do that too - but in general I mean upping the stats (hps,saves,dc,etc) without modifying the CR of the encounter.
So you upped the CR of the headless lord himself and added 4 zombie Hill Giants (for 8) and they still one rounded it?
At this point your APL should be 13 for a party of 6 players that means your total player levels has to be 74 or less - this means that 4 of your players should be level 12. (remember APL for a 6 person group = total levels / 6 rounded up + 1)
I'm actually impressed if a group of mostly level 12 could take on a CR 14 + 8 CR 6 critters without breaking a sweat. That encounter is worth 57,700 (a CR 15 encounter) so it should have at least made them pause.
It's hard to know how I'd change things up without looking at your party makeup however. What classes do you have?
The AP is set for 4 players 15 point buy.
If you have more than 4 players you need to scale it up - if you used higher than a 15 point buy you *may* need to scale on that also.
Rule of thumb:
Separate your players into three groups: Full BAB classes = martial, Full Arcane casters = Arcane, everyone else = utility.
Your 4 person party the AP was designed for assumes a party of 1 martial, 1 arcane, 2 utility.
For your party do the following:
For each martial over 1 - increase HPS of enemies by 50%.
For each arcane over 1 - add 1 monster of APL to each encounter.
For each utility over 2 - increase monster saves and DC's by 1
Give that a shot and see if it doesn't help - all of that assumes of course that your party is keeping up level wise. A party of 6 while starting out strong by the assault on the stone giant fortress really should be a level or two behind the 4 person party due to spreading the exp around.
Nikolaus Athas wrote:
Your AC should be 16 (10 + 1 Dex -2 size +7 natural)
I added the stat point to Dex as it was at that 'threshold' to gain a bump from a single increase - that also explains the difference between our HPS
How it looks in Hero Lab - hp output is wrong though (bug maybe) it's actually 9d10+36
Unnamed Hero CR 7
Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
As a thought you could try asking in the GM reference thread for the module in the appropriate adventure path forum.
This seems like an appropriate place - the question is really can bull rush be used to push something into an object and cause a trip?
You cannot bull rush a creature into a square that is occupied by a solid object or obstacle.
So the answer is no.
Bull rush *can* be used to force a creature into another occupied square.
If there is another creature in the way of your bull rush, you must immediately make a combat maneuver check to bull rush that creature. You take a –4 penalty on this check for each creature being pushed beyond the first. If you are successful, you can continue to push the creatures a distance equal to the lesser result. For example, if a fighter bull rushes a goblin for a total of 15 feet, but there is another goblin 5 feet behind the first, he must make another combat maneuver check against the second goblin after having pushed the first 5 feet. If his check reveals that he can push the second goblin a total of 20 feet, he can continue to push both goblins another 10 feet (since the first goblin will have moved a total of 15 feet).
So you can force creatures into the same square - however this movement doesn't cause AoO's unless they have the greater bull rush feat.
And it's been answered in the FAQ:
Drow can work - but you are going to need to have a decent backstory - and make them good aligned.
See nobodyshome's game journal for a drow that made me rethink using them as a race.
IMO though I'd make them take the alternate racial trait to remove the darkvision and get normal low-light vision along with a campaign trait like adopted which gives them a reason for being on the surface (again see nobodyshome's journal for a great story there).
I will agree on the goblin - it's almost impossible to use a race that is the 'big evil' - drow wouldn't work in second darkness - goblins don't work in RotRL.
I can see the makings of a very nice 'side quest' from this though - say level 11/12 ish - agents from the plane of water contact you because the water level is draining and after years of research they discover some wizard did this...
Track down the wizard (or their notes/research) and shut it down - perhaps even reverse the process if possible...
Could even be a full adventure with cracking a wizards tower - perhaps the wizard either a) died and the experiment was left going, or b) is a lich and doesn't care about the timeframe.
Either way this is a neat situation and I think a nifty planar experience that could get your group some allies on the plane of water ;)