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Ckorik's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 971 posts. 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Chris Lambertz wrote:
Ckorik wrote:
Will there be an interactive maps for this (like Runelords?)
Yup! It will be available separately and in the PDF version of the compilation. If you purchase the PDF version of the compilation, it also will come with a separate file containing player handouts :)

This is awesome! Thank you!

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Will there be an interactive maps for this (like Runelords?)

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You guys are missing the gold here...

Klar's can have vorpal or keen edge.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

OK using the 'cook' example - lets say your profession (cook) skill is a 20 (for whatever reason) and the DC is only 10. So even if you roll a 1 - it's going to be the best thing the pirates have ever eaten. You are such a good chef your 'throw it on a plate' and what seems horrible to *you* is 5 star quality for everyone else. You have a problem now - all your training and practice has you at the point where your worst effort is cuisine - and I'd make you roll a profession check in this case to sabotage your efforts - and force yourself to oversalt/etc. with the idea that it's hard for you to do even this - as what you consider 'horrid' is *still* the best food a common person ever ate.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Protoman wrote:

How it's supposed to work officially, Paizo still has to clarify that. Recently they gave indication that it'll be brought up for discussion for FAQ, but nothing so far.

Really? I'd love to see pathfinder move away from the 'amulet of mighty fists is the only way to enchant unarmed damage' and go to gauntlets and or handwraps. I was pretty sure that the only way to increase unarmed damage die was to use 'no weapon' - which includes gauntlets.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
I think hardness should be applied before temporary HP or it really hurts the high CR robots who depend on their forcefield for a big chunk of their HP. I would fluff it as the forcefield reinforces the structure/body to fight off any damage as applied, rather than an external bubble that gets hit first. If you play it as an external bubble it wouldn't make any sense to apply armor or natural armor to your AC, either. You can hit the forcefield even if you can't hit the robot.

Well if you assume it's a bubble then sure... but what if a forcefield is just a very thin 'skin' that lays over the top of a creature - and so is in all ways affected by AC/dex/movement/etc. Then consider that such a force field is reinforced by the structure under it thus making hardness useful :)

So yeah without a hard rule (which we don't have) it's how you justify it in your mind - and so expect table variation and ask your GM how they are going to handle it.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber



Book 4: It's not Mokmurian that's gone mad with power, it's Conna. She killed her husband and created the haunt under Jorgenfist. The runeforge cauldron doesn't make runeslaves, it lets her mass produce flesh golems. Or bathing in it doesn't kill giants, it gives them stoneskin for a week. Replace the roc's with dragons and the harpy monks with erinyes devils. Mokmurian is a downtrodden runt that while mistreated by his peers still seeks to free them from the horrible fate he foresees. He Wormtongues it with Conna to stay in her good graces and secretly allies with the pc's. And when it would inconvenience the pc's the most, he sneaks in and steals the scrollcase from the Black Monk, sending him and his erinyes minions on the warpath to find it. Mokmurian gets the anethma archive and tries to use it to Wish some outcome differently (not sure what this is) but whatever it is, it goes horribly wrong. For everyone. Maybe it sends them back in time to when the Black Tower was filled with Peacock Spirit wizard-monks, who obviously react with violence to the intruders. The only way back is for one of the pc's to try to use the archive to wish them back home. That can backfire with insanity a few times before it actually works.

I've already setup big M as the bad guy here - but the rest of that is so f'n epic that I'm stealing it.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber


you could view this as your player being so excited about the game he's consuming other media to get his fix.

Is the point of this game to be surprised by [insert cliche] here and [plot trope used in every fantasy game every here] and then be shocked when the bad guys are [generic fantasy monster here]. Do GM's seriously get upset if players go into a 'wrath of the righteous' campaign and figure out that demons are a normal enemy? Reading the players guide doesn't it already tell you giants are a huge theme and rangers should take them as a favored enemy?

I usually take it that the point of the game is to adventure with my friends, role play (ACTING! Said in my best Jon Lovitz voice) a different type of character than I am in real life, and have fun. Knowing the main enemies isn't going to spoil this adventure - honestly he'd know the enemies if he read the 'blurb' on the back of each of the adventures - I look at it like a movie trailer or blurb - if the marketing material gives out more as 'spoiler' than you are comfortable with the problem may not be with other people.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
KenderKin wrote:
So really code violations are not an autofall for paladin's. Thank you.
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the paladin's mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies).
Paizo removed the 'grossly' qualifier. Any code violation means falling in Pathfinder.

This is the advice forum. Here we follow rules as intended. For the advice forum that is horrible advice.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
When does this paladin fall?


When the GM notes the paladin does things oddly and then sits down out of game and asks the player if they would like to play a 'paladin falls' redemption story. Only when both player and GM agree this is a story that the game wants to tell does the 'fall' happen.

Asking this question means you didn't pick another option and tell your player before the game started. All other options require you and the player to have already set limits and lines in the sand prior to them being crossed. Without this discussion anything you do to a player is arbitrary and unfair, due to the differences any two people on earth will have regarding what is 'evil' and what is not. Have the discussion now and offer to allow the player to pick any other class because as the GM this is your responsibility - not the players - to make them aware you are going to be 'one of those GMs' where paladins aren't a real choice but a trap.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well the conflict of interest seems to be how you want to use the setting - and your players want the setting to be a foe.

Honestly - this is something you guys need to sit down and talk about 'out of game' as friends - and not as 'players and gm.' My personal advice with the information given here is that you both should avoid using the setting at all in your motivations, backstory, or story elements - because your obvious 'favorite' status, and the players obvious 'hatred' are only going to cause conflicts if you try to do anything with the setting.

Do I think a 'overthrow the queen' campaign could be epic? HELL YES.

Do I think a 'unintended consequences' campaign (where say you kill the queen at level one through some kind of unique 'right time right place' deus ex machina event - only to have literal hell on earth happen due to a clause in the contract) could be awesome? HELL YES.

Do I think that a 'show the players who's boss' campaign could be awesome? HELL NO!

And there is the rub - one of those plots upsets you. The second one will upset the players unless they are *interested* in that kind of plot to begin with. The third will make the GM happy - until the players all quit or go out of their way to get back at the GM - in short the last version of events will ruin your group.

Before you get to the point of actually having anger and hurt feelings over a game - it would be better to either stop playing or agree on what is 'off limits' so you don't tread those waters.

/my two cents.

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Hey James,

Hope you have a safe and happy weekend. In the spirit of 'letting people know' I thought I'd chime in that I've been in the hobby for 20 years and you are a singular inspiration to the reason I'm now 4 books ('books' as they'd have been printed) into rotrl as a GM. The excitement about how you run your games and frankly the answers to rule questions are what actually made me excited to give it a shot.

Up until that point I had never read answers from anyone who espoused a 'Figure out what's more fun and go with that as an answer' philosophy as to how to play the game. So thank you - not just for an awesome product - but for being awesome. I have played 1st, 2nd, 3rd, (skipped 3.5 oddly), shadowrun (back in 91 - no idea what version), GURPS, RIFTS, TMNT, etc. etc. - rules are rules - the game is always fun when it's about the ideas.

To keep the post legal - do you prefer 'clicky' keyboards, 'soft touch' or 'chiclet' (like a laptop) - myself I prefer soft touch.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber


Mummy's Mask AP has this exact scenario:


Trap: Those who pass through the tall archway on the
right are struck with a symbol of pain unless they enter
presenting a gift (a gem or piece of artwork worth at least
5,000 gp).
XP 9,600
Type magic; Perception DC 34; Disable Device DC 34
Trigger location; Duration 1d4 rounds; Reset none; Bypass
special (see above)
Effect spell effect (heightened symbol of pain [9th level],
Fortitude DC 29 negates); multiple targets (all targets
passing through the right-hand arch to area E24)

Note that when used this way a symbol spell becomes a trap and it still has perception and disable dc's. Considering the players are expected to be at least level 16 at this point the given DC's are trivial. A better use of a symbol is on a shield of a servant that has a cloth cover, or some other way to use it actively.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
swoosh wrote:

Isn't that just a slightly better version of pounce for 2-5 feats depending on level? That's pretty underwhelming tbh.

No it's not - it's better than pounce, because you only have to hit on your best attack bonus - and if your hit is a crit, then you autocrit the entire attack chain.

Pounce requires a to hit roll for each attack, and one crit doesn't make your entire attack chain a crit. Pounce also requires a full round action where mythic vital strike does not - meaning your move action can be a 'non move' - so it's more versatile. It only really comes into it's own when added with mythic power attack though. Even 'pounce-light' like pummeling strike require you to use your attack chain to add up damage - mythic vital strike is not 'just slightly better pounce'

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Chemlak wrote:

1) Open PDF of UE 2nd printing.

2) Turn to page 12.
3) ?
4) Profit!
Okay, how do I open the PDF of UE 2nd printing? Where do I find it?

For the record, the Errata changes citation document doesn't list it (and neither does the PRD). Why, I don't know. Could be a mistake forgotten to be put into the Errata document (how convenient), could be something that took place after the Errata document was published (more likely), who knows.

Regardless, you have to buy the PDF from the site in order to get the actual PDF copy from the products page in order to actually see the text for yourself. The other alternative is that you take Gisher's citation for what it is, a citation in the 2nd printing PDF. If you feel spending ~10 dollars for self-confirmation, then by all means do so. Others may not feel that way, however.

It was my understanding that the most up to date rules source would always be the PRD - which is where PFS GMs are told to look.

Any ruling - even posted to the boards here by the dev team - is unofficial until it hits the PRD. That's why 'FAQs' are not so easy to answer as it requires co-ordination between multiple groups and they try to have the PRD text go live at the same time as the response.

If you think that the dev team hasn't read this thread you are woefully wrong - (Hi Mark! Hi Jason!) - Paizo is very active on the forums - I'm very sure they'd love to explain what the mistake was (obviously a mistake) but they need to co-ordinate all the groups involved and hash out what they are going to keep - and the current policy would (bad for them trying to make this rule stick) mean they need to use the *CURRENT IN PRINT* rules until they can errata the book again at next printing.

This is another reason why many of us think they need to change their errata policy to work off a different schedule than the printing runs. Or for them to accept FAQ's without them having to be tied to a specific product perhaps.

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dear dev team.

If you mark this no FAQ required it will be asked again. Your policy on 'no FAQ required' needs to change from 'it's obvious to us' to something along the lines of 'if we keep getting this question our rule language sucks - simply it at the least'.

Thank you and FAQ'd.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have to ask - considering the question was answered the argument is moot at this point. Your options here are:

  • Accept the ruling (with grace if you were on the winning side - not the same thing as correct guys) and game happy
  • Decide you don't like the ruling (with grace if you were on the losing side - not the same things as incorrect either) and game happy
  • Either way realize that the difference in damage on a shield bash is hardly game breaking and the rules are most likely due to some obscure interaction that would be unbalancing if they allowed this - much larger changes in balance and function have happened and the game moves on
  • Much like other rule changes - the important thing is to know it happened so you can have a home rule to make it how you want it - that way if someone has a book that is printed with the updated rules (that you don't like) you can point to your home rule without confusion.

Game on guys - rehashing this for another 100 posts won't change anything (or any minds) - this doesn't even effect PFS because you can't create magic items in PFS - home rule away!

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
McBaine wrote:

Hi, I will start a Rise of the Runelords campaign with my group of players in about 2 weeks. We finished the Carrion Crown Adventure Path and will finish the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path next week. Two of my players have complained that they got tired of the same enemies over and over again. In Carrion Crown it was undead and in Legacy of Fire it was Efreeti and other Fire based monsters.

In Rise, the first book is heavy on Goblins, the second has quite a variety of enemies but starting from the third book it is giants in all forms: Ogres, Trolls, Hill-, Stone-, Cloud and Rune Giants etc.

I see these players hitting giant fatigue soon when the Adventure Path progresses. Are there other monsters that would fit in the theme and make sense as Karzoug's minions?

tl;dr: Are there other fitting enemies than mostly various giants for the end of Rise of the Runelords?

Thanks in Advance

Hrmmm are you sure you actually read through the adventure?

I'm gonna spoiler this because it's not like you couldn't cheat and just read it as a player anyway but just in case you aren't the GM and want to actually be surprised ...


Book 1 - goblins, boars, zombies, extraplaner hounds, humans, demons

Book 2 - ghouls, ghasts, zombies, undead bats, haunts, humans, golems, lamias

Book 3 - ogrekin, ogres, humans, giant creatures of doom, ettin, trolls, mechanical constructs, stone giants, lamias, hags

Book 4 - stone giants, dragons, harpies, mummies, zombie giants, rune-giants, zombie giants, shining children, redcaps, spiders, lamias

Book 5 - humans, demons, dragons, humans, demons, undead (various), liches, humans, humans

Book 6 - haunts, wendigo, yeti, dark children, angled hounds, leng stuff, giants (of all kinds), dragons, devils, lamias, humans

If you read through the entire adventure and all you saw was 'giants' after book 3 then I don't know what to say.... they are a common foe - I'll grant you - but outside of book 4 they are hardly the majority - and when they become common again an entire book and a half has gone by so not quite fatigue inducing.

Ogres and giants are not the same thing.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
opakedragon wrote:

Can you create a custom staff with one of the nonspell abilities of another staff? For example:

4,600 gp: +1/+1 quarterstaff (2,300 gp +2,300 gp masterwork and +1 enhancement for each side of the double weapon)
1,600 gp: Ray of enfeeblement (200 gp * 1 spell level * 8 caster level / 1 charge)
4,800 gp: Spectral hand (300 gp * 2 spell level * 8 caster level / 1 charge)
9,600 gp: Vampiric touch (400 gp * 3 spell level * 8 caster level / 2 charges)
9,400 gp: apply any metamagic feats (30,000 gp - 20,600 gp)

Adding metamagic feat use to a staff cost 9,400 gp? and 4,700 to craft?

You can do the first part and enchant a staff as a magic weapon by the book. The second ability isn't something you can do and would need to be GM approved.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gulthor wrote:

Thematically, Divine Source is incredible. Mechanically it's so-so,

Oddly my biggest worry about taking it is that it's so powerful...

In addition, you can cast spells from domains you grant as long as their level is equal to or less than your tier. Each day as a spell-like ability, you can cast one spell of each level equal to or less than your tier (selecting from those available to you from your divine source domains)

So one ability gives you 1 spell per tier selected from your two domains. Taking the ability more gives you more choice but the first dip is what gives you the power - considering that any character can take this and have access to 1-9 level casting (with seriously nice spells to choose from).


Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

So no material component and no need for a free hand, verbal, or somatic gestures.... and that can include spells like limited wish, resurrection, true resurrection...

Considering the overall power of a mythic campaign - perhaps not overpowering. However I'd say that this has a mechanical advantage to anyone that takes it.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dastis wrote:

Did this to a group once. They were locked in a large mansion with a significant boss(2nd from final in evil heirarchy). The players were level 10 at the time so plane shift, scrying, and teleport were operational

When he cast the spell I explained "If you fail this saving throw you get sent to a random location on the material plane. Whoever makes it gets to stay and fight a CR inappropriate lich who's phylax is currently unknown. Each of you has about a 20% chance of succeeding a save. Who volunteers to fail their save?"

Gave each a percentile chance to see how bad their situation was. The next session began with a quick comedic scene for each of them going from best off to worst. The trick was to keep the not active players laughing. They spent the rest of the session finding each other then researching the lich

This sounds awesome - and I think that's exactly how I'm going to run with it (and have backups plans for what happens if they try and fight - because players).

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Ckorik wrote:

I believe the holy word (and it's unholy side) do not give a save for the banish effect.

It's 'if you are on your home plane any non good (or evil) extraplaner creatures are banished' - all other effects are save or suck (up to dead but my players are high enough to avoid that effect). If I'm wrong about how that spell works I will need to rethink things for sure.

"The banishment effect allows a Will save (at a –4 penalty) to negate."

Hrmmm - that'll be interesting then. I may have to have a geas ready to use if anyone manages to save. I could always mind fog the area but with my luck half the party will roll 20's on the save anyway. Good news is they will be paralysed even if they make the save so if I have 'alternate plans' ready it gives me a reason to not destroy them outright and keep the story moving.

So - regarding the entire spell then - one will save - and even if they save against the 'suck' parts the same save at -4 for banishment? Or would you make them roll separate saves?

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
The Steel Refrain wrote:

In reading that plan over, my concern for the PCs would be that some party members make the save versus banishment and some don't. Even with a -4 and a high DC, there is always the chance someone hits a Nat20, or otherwise beats it.

If that happened, those who are 'lucky' enough to make the save would then have to fight the enemy (and any other of the myriad threats in the Abyss) without the aid of their banished allies.

Probably a death sentence, and I'm not sure the PCs would really know it might be a good idea to choose to fail the save... Worth thinking over whether that possible outcome is something you're prepared to deal with.

I believe the holy word (and it's unholy side) do not give a save for the banish effect.

It's 'if you are on your home plane any non good (or evil) extraplaner creatures are banished' - all other effects are save or suck (up to dead but my players are high enough to avoid that effect). If I'm wrong about how that spell works I will need to rethink things for sure.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Right - honestly I'm more worried about if my players will feel like it's a deus ex machina - at the end of the current quest they are on - an enemy that has been bothering them now for about 8 levels (they are currently level 11) is going to be accessible.

He's a half-fiend treant spawn of Ghlaunder (this is a very long arc I've been running along rotrl - they played through 'feast of ravenmoor' early in the adventure).

Long story short after the 'boss' fight a portal will be open - if they go through it they'll be in the abyss - and the treant will use unholy word on them - none of them being evil they'll be poofed back to home base.

I figure they will get to see their nemesis and come up with a way to avoid his ability to send them away.... hopefully -

Contrived? Too much? Epic? I'm not sure...

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Considering you can't use this ability until Monstrous Physique IV (a level 6 spell) I'd say listing it specifically for it to be useless is a mistake.

However the rules as they currently stand would indicate (but not state outright that I could find) that this ability is useless text as written and how it interacts giving you a caster level of 0 due to not having racial hit die.

As such I'm marking this thread a FAQ candidate - and I think it deserves a pass from the dev team to clean up 'racial hit die' vs. 'class hit die' language - or to clean up the polymorph school to allow class hit die to = racial hit die when assuming a form, or to remove this ability from the spell.

Somethings gotta give :)

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
opakedragon wrote:

Thanks for the correction! So adding a 6th level spell later would cost 27,000 gp (46,200 gp - 19,200 gp)?

Unless you wanted to make the 6th level spell use more than one charge to activate - then you'd need to calculate the cost again with the new figure based on the # of charges you are requiring.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd consider another planet if my players were in the 'level 20 mythic tier 8+' range - possibly. Otherwise I'd use it if I wanted to end a campaign on a sour note (that is not).

From what I can gather the common theme seems to be 'near where they left the plane' - although I've seen (older) posts (in other forums) where they are adamant they use the 'random place' - I was just curious how anyone who has either used it as a GM or had it happen to them as a player experienced the situation - and how they felt about it afterwords.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gevaudan wrote:

The PC ends up at a random location on their home plane and has to figure out where they are and how to get back. Unless they are banished as a group, they end up in different locations on subsequent banishes.

I tend to follow plane shift's rules if no others are present. Keep in mind, the caster is picking the location or not, so a smart caster could easily dunk a PC into the middle of an ocean.

So if the banishment was from 'holy word' you'd just make it random?

oddly - it just dawned on me that 'random' in the plane of existence could even be on a different planet.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If any of my players happen to find this post - stop reading it or any replies.

question in the spoiler.


How have you handled what happens when a player is banished from a plane back to their home plane?

The following spells can be used offensively against a player on a separate plane:

Holy Word (and it's opposite)
plane shift

I'm just curious as there is no rule, suggestion, or guidance on how this works and where the player ends up. I know for a monster it really doesn't matter - but if I'm going to use this against my players I'm unsure what to do with them. I have ideas - they would work - but I'd rather hear what others do without discussing the merits of my thoughts. Please post if you have had 'whatever' done to you or have used it against a group at a game session as well or if it's pure theory. Bonus points if you can say what happened to your character and if you found the experience fun or frustrating.

My goal isn't to be frustrating - I want this encounter to be a foreshadow of something they won't have the power to deal with for a while and end with them being forced back to their home plane. They have access to teleport and other fast travel so ending up in an odd location isn't a campaign ender.

Thoughts and opinions are welcome!

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Why do they have to do increased damage? The abilities that stay relevant throughout a carer tend to not be damage ones - instead why not put a rider on the damage that is thematic to the concept they come from?

Fire blast:
1d6 damage + 1 per 2 caster levels and the next fire spell is a -1 (plus 1 every 4 caster levels max 5) on the save made.


1d6 damage +1 per 2 caster levels and the target can not use evasion on the next reflex save he makes...

Just tossing out ideas...

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
GreyWolfLord wrote:

You think 15 point builds are hard, try 10 point builds.

10 point builds for a Tier 1, 12 Point build for a Tier 2, 15 point build for a Tier 3, and 20 point build for a Tier 4.

Unfortunately, many here would still consider that unfair...

Ironically, you can still get a Wizard casting 9th level spells by level 20 with that buy in...or if they want to spend MORE than half their points...even level 18, with another +1 in any stat they wish!

Depends on your access to items that raise stats.

Playing DDO (dungeons and dragons online) with unlimited wealth and loot (and the 3.5 rules) you see the evolution of this type of character building - some of the popular caster builds start with a 12 in the prime casting stat - because they don't rely on DC's so getting a +6 item and a tome for +1 is enough to hit 9th level casting.

If you play a character with all 10's - but the world rewards them with items and boosts to make them heroic - the original stats didn't matter much at all. My experience with real table top play however would show that the stat increasing items aren't all that easy to get. The big 'empty' seems to be in the mid levels - as +2 hats and belts drop aplenty - but getting the +4's are super rare - and +6's might as well be bought.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
MeanMutton wrote:
Deadalready wrote:
First tip: Avoid more than one "random attack" encounter. Nothing drags the speed down or makes a journey seem longer than fights. Even if you want to do more than one, make them possible to avoid through diplomacy/intimidate. MAJOR POINTS if you can fill the journey with events that DON'T require combat. Players fight all the time, so filling the journey other things makes it feel special.
Relevant comic is relevant

This comic is relevant depending on the game you intend to play. This is the most important point here - if you are playing a 'the world is vast and mysterious' sandbox type of game - you should make travel take time - allow one 50 mile hex of travel per day and have the map fleshed out with interesting locations and such for your players to find and interact with - have your table for survival dc's to avoid being lost if they venture into the woods - have planned and random encounters and hooks that may derail the original reason they set out to travel in the first place - etc. In this type of game - travel and random encounters are important.

If the type of game you are playing is about a big story that involves set pieces and don't want your party to be sidetracked - and the only encounters they have on the road are all random and irrelevant - honestly skip it. As someone stated earlier if you aren't interested in your encounters your players won't be either - this is so true more than anything - the tone of the two types of games are very different here and if the players are more interested in the plot it's more than fine to 'gloss over' boring parts to move on with the interesting stuff.

Not every game plays the same way - the only thing that really derails a game is if you try to switch game styles on your players without warning or reason, set expectations and (assuming everyone is enjoying the game) have fun.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I just wanted to chime in here to throw some ideas out - not sure how you'd work it with the current situation but...


So your group hates dungeons - get rid of the dungeon - make Coana (spelling... the ally giant) contact them - give them quests to 'win over' each of the different tribes of giants (they all have different ways to impress depending on type) have them form an alliance and win the 'army' over. Let them walk up to big M with the entire army at your back and he challenges your party to 'one on one' or something to save face (and keep the army out of the fight). Dump 90% of the dungeon for the above plot.


The runelords hated each other - make the infiltration about how to win over the various factions - yes perhaps there is a dungeon (and perhaps a wing or two has no interest at all in being allies) but ancient hatred lingers and the minions of the other runelords would hate to see Karzog get out and claim power when their lords can't/haven't.

The big mountain:

Quest 1 - put the dwarves to rest - this can be played up with a group of dwarves staying at the lodge cabin in the woods style that beg for help.

Quest 2 - free the yeti enslavement (roleplaying etc)

Quest 3 - ally the dragon

Quest 4 - free the giants from corruption

Quest 5 - stealth through the fortress of Big K

Quest 6 - enter the final fight.


There are ways to make the entire thing friendly to your group - however it's going to take a ton of work from you - remember combat is never a 'must' and the only reason there are so many combats is because it takes that many to level up - if you level up by fiat you can eliminate 90% of the combats and keep it streamlined.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Atarlost wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
Strong, can do anything, but can't do everything in the same character. That sounds like tier 2 to me.
They can do everything in the same character... Just not in the same day. All Cleric builds still have access to all their spells.
The cleric can't do everything with spells without having the stats to back them up and can't have the stats for both dealing damage and forcing saves at a useful level at the same time because the combat buffs are no longer good enough to overcome poor combat stats. They just don't have the "hurting people" spells to fill the hammer role without strength (or dex and dex to damage) and lack spells to make hurting people irrelevant. Instead they have a list full of spells that fill the same handful of roles in slightly different ways.

The cleric can summon pizza at level 5 and therefore fill all roles needed for party synergy.

ipso facto tier 1.

They can even summon a pizza with pineapple and one without - and a pile of oats for the odd goat person that hates pizza.

everyone wins - party time happens.

Should a monster happen to show up - the cleric can summon pizza for them also.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Think of it this way - you don't have to take the -20 - and you don't have to make the grab until the last attack.

So your monster can...

  • Grab and constrict at full CMB after a move - then drop the grapple as a free action
  • Full attack and grab/constrict on last attack at full CMB - then drop the grapple as a free action
  • Choose to keep the grab without taking the condition - and thus getting a full attack/etc.
  • It's a nasty ability that is very very powerful and useful for a monster - the ones that typically *want* to hold a character with grab have the CMB to do it (Krakken etc.)

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    Menacing Shade of mauve wrote:
    Rune wrote:
    Ckorik wrote:
    Wizards can do this with a trait - and aren't limited on what they can summon with it.
    Mind sharing that one? Looks neat.
    +1. Because I've never seen that trait.

    Going to apologize - it's a feat not a trait - it's called Acadame Graduate - it's out of the curse of the crimson throne player's guide.


    Acadamae Graduate (Local)

    You have graduated from the magical acadamy.

    Prerequisites: Specialist wizard level 1st, cannot have conjuration as a forbidden school.

    Benefit: Whenever you cast a prepared arcane spell from the conjuration (summoning) school that takes longer than a standard action to cast, reduce the casting time by one round (to a minimum casting time of one standard action). Casting a spell in this way is taxing and requires a Fortitude save (DC 15 + spell level) to resist becoming fatigued.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    James Risner wrote:
    meta magic gem

    Well I'll be.... I didn't even know about this item. I am always happy when I discover new things that are cool - and I like these even though they cost a ton. Although they aren't level limited like a rod either.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    Paizo AP\adventure scale rules:

    AP's are built on a 4 person party with:

    1 melee
    1 full arcane
    2 utility

    What counts as a melee?

    Anything who's primary mode of damage is hitting, with multiple attacks at higher levels. This includes caster classes that focus on this such as (but not limited to) druids, alchemists, even sorcerers or wizards (although less likely to be a wizard).

    What counts as full arcane?

    Anything who has 9 levels of arcane spells and doesn't use those spells to enhance their own ability for melee.

    What counts as utility?

    Anything that isn't the above. Seriously - in general these guys have class features that focus on buffing/debuffing or altering the odds in the players favor in some manner - this includes clerics (9 spell levels and if you really pay attention you note that most of them are add numbers to party or subtract them from enemy).

    How do I use this to balance the adventure?

    Look at your party - put each character in a category based on the above criteria. Fill in the slots for what the adventure assumes (1 melee, 1 arcane, 2 utility) - now look at what you have left.

    • For each melee left Add 50% Hit points to every monster
    • For each full arcane left Add monster(s) to every encounter equal to the party CR - use best judgement here if the CR of an encounter is already equal or less than the party and meant to be easy then adjust down - never adjust higher than CR = party - use multiple lower level foes when possible rather than one large one
    • For each utility left Increase all saves, and special ability DC's by 1 per utility character

    When do I use these guidelines?
    Start after level 2 - the first 2 levels are difficult for players and it is this GM's personal opinion that changing things during these levels requires a much more delicate and careful brush than general guidelines can give you - otherwise your game may be very...

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    James Risner wrote:
    Kusori wrote:
    So what happens if a wizard/sorcerer uses Emergency Force Sphere to counter your limited castings of Stormbolts?

    Buff up and ready for when they teleport out?

    Destroy the 200 hp hardness 30 wall with 230 hp storm bolts with the first one and quicken the other to kill the wizard?

    Ask the GM if that's a valid use of EFS as there is significant difference of opinion on whether or not it can interrupt an attack like that.

    I gotta ask...

    1d8 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 20d8)

    How are you getting 230 hp on a storm bolts.... 160 would be maximized, 160+80 = 230 - but that would require a maximized and empowered. Maximized is 3 levels higher. Empowered is +2 - so you can't memorize the spell with either - and you can only use one rod at a time.

    So... how goes?

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    Rysky wrote:
    Ckorik wrote:
    Rory wrote:
    Rysky wrote:
    "Barbarian's Damage Reduction" always meant DR gained from the class, not just a Barbarian who has DR from any source.

    It does not say "Barbarian's Damage Reduction". It says "barbarian's damage reduction".

    The difference between a common and proper noun is important.

    If they are going to issue errata due to the FAQ, they should fix it in all places. 'Tis all.

    So wait... you are saying that how it's written - the DR would stack with say ... stoneskin.... because when someone casts that on the barbarian it becomes 'barbarian's damage reduction'?

    What about mithril armor? Why didn't everyone suddenly understand that IR with mithril armor and stoneskin would be 'invulnerable' in the true meaning of the word!

    One of the reasons I hate dealing with intentionally fallacious people.

    (And I'm gonna assume you meant Adamantine)

    I did! Although in the context for which it's meant... did it matter? I did forget my [sarcasm] tags though....

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    HyperMissingno wrote:
    Let's not forget these guys can spend one feat to get access to standard action summons. While not as powerful as the summoner class it's still a standard action to add another ally to the fight and depending on hat you go it can utterly break it.

    Wizards can do this with a trait - and aren't limited on what they can summon with it.

    Standard action summons in general aren't a miricle to the class nor do they give a prayer to the righteous might that is a cleric.

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    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    Rory wrote:
    Rysky wrote:
    "Barbarian's Damage Reduction" always meant DR gained from the class, not just a Barbarian who has DR from any source.

    It does not say "Barbarian's Damage Reduction". It says "barbarian's damage reduction".

    The difference between a common and proper noun is important.

    If they are going to issue errata due to the FAQ, they should fix it in all places. 'Tis all.

    So wait... you are saying that how it's written - the DR would stack with say ... stoneskin.... because when someone casts that on the barbarian it becomes 'barbarian's damage reduction'?

    What about mithril armor? Why didn't everyone suddenly understand that IR with mithril armor and stoneskin would be 'invulnerable' in the true meaning of the word!

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    MendedWall12 wrote:
    Orfamay Quest wrote:
    I certainly understand the desire for this particular shenanigan; if allowed, it would make unseen servant among the most powerful first level spells in the game.
    That's exactly why I don't understand it, and why I labeled it shenanigans. At any point does the logical part of a person's brain lend itself to thinking the spell called "unseen servant" should be one of the most powerful first level spells in the game? If the devs had wanted it to do what the OP is asking they would have renamed it "unseen combat stopping power of awesomesauceness-orama!"

    oddly - depending on your imagination and the situation - it does rank up there.

    You can use an unseen servant to pick up weapons, hold items, open/shut doors - etc. You really don't get another spell that has the duration or versatility and the ability to change the battlefield in ways that would have otherwise cost you actions.

    This spell with silent image, or even dancing lights can cause serious distractions for your opponents.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    You all are lowball - 10gp for a night is 'average' IMO - in the real world (yeah I know not pathfinder - but we get the term from some-place and so it's a good place to start for reference) we can look at the recent Gov of New York scandal to get an idea of what high class *starts* to look like.

    5,000 U.S. - per night.

    I doubt that's the upper limit - and I'm pretty sure that movie stars and richer people have access to even higher class. There is a level where you pay for discretion more than the company.

    So the 12th level bard.... Nope I'd go with thousands of gold per night - enough cash to live in the upper crust in a very large city. Any place that has legalized sex work you will find that it's a very good job in terms of compensation without much of the baggage and risk associated when it's made illegal and pushed underground. While it's not something discussed with large amounts of material we know that places like Sandpoint and Magnimar have named brothel locations so we can assume that at least in parts of the world they operate in full view of the law and as such the sums involved are most likely on the 'well off' end of any NPC wealth scale.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    Fraction of Heal and Harm says:

    This spell has no effect on spells that do not deal damage or spells higher than 3rd level.

    Detonate says:



    School evocation [acid, cold, electricity, or fire]; Level alchemist 4, sorcerer/wizard 4

    They don't interact at all.

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    Qauishan Yeti


    This furry hominid's orange eyes blaze not with fury but with wisdom, and the white hair around its face is streaked with gray.
    Qauishan Yeti CR 6
    XP 2,400
    Yeti monk 5 (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 287)
    LN Large monstrous humanoid (cold)
    Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft., scent; Perception +12
    AC 22, touch 15, flat-footed 20 (+2 Dex, +1 monk, +7 natural, -1 size, +3 Wis)
    hp 93 (11 HD; 5d8+6d10+38)
    Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +12; +2 vs. enchantments
    Defensive Abilities evasion; Immune cold, disease
    Weaknesses vulnerable to fire
    Speed 50 ft., climb 30 ft.
    Melee unarmed strike +16/+11 (2d6+8 plus 1d6 cold) or
    . . unarmed strike flurry of blows +16/+16/+11/+6 (2d6+8 plus 1d6 cold) or
    . . 2 claws +17 (1d6+8/19-20 plus 1d6 cold)
    Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
    Special Attacks flurry of blows, frightful gaze, rend (2 claws, 1d6+11 plus 1d6 cold), stunning fist (6/day, DC 18)
    Str 24, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 9, Wis 16, Cha 8
    Base Atk +9; CMB +19; CMD 33
    Feats Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Feral Combat Training[UC], Great Fortitude, Improved Critical (claw), Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Stunning Fist, Weapon Focus (claw)
    Skills Acrobatics +10 (+23 to jump), Climb +24, Intimidate +8, Perception +12, Stealth +10 (+18 in snow), Survival +11; Racial Modifiers +4 Stealth, +8 Stealth in snow
    Languages Aklo
    SQ cold, fast movement, high jump, ki pool (5 points magic), maneuver training, slow fall 20 ft.
    Other Gear amulet of mighty fists +1
    Special Abilities
    Cleave If you hit a foe, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus but take -2 AC.
    Climbing (30 feet) You have a Climb speed.
    Cold (Su) A yeti's body generates intense cold, dealing 1d6 points of cold damage to any creature that contacts it with a natural attack or unarmed strike, or whenever it hits a foe with its claws or rend attack.
    Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
    Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
    Deflect Arrows (1/round) While have an empty hand, negate one ranged weapon hit you are aware of (unless from a massive weapon).
    Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
    Fast Movement (+10 ft.) The Monk adds 10 or more feet to his base speed.
    Feral Combat Training (Claw) Use Improved Unarmed Strike feats with chosen natural weapon.
    Flurry of Blows +9/+9/+4/-1 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
    Frightful Gaze (DC 12) (Su) Foes in 30 ft who meet gaze are paralyzed with fear for 1 rd (Will neg).
    High Jump (+5/+25 with Ki point) (Ex) +5 to Acrobatics checks made to jump.
    Immunity to Cold You are immune to cold damage.
    Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
    Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
    Ki Pool (5/day) (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
    Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
    Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
    Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
    Slow Fall 20 ft. (Ex) Treat a fall as shorter than normal if within arm's reach of a wall.
    Stunning Fist (6/day, DC 18) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
    Stunning Fist Helper This is a dummy ability to add an extra entry for the stunning fist feat in another section of the statblock (since it is shown with a different name in the two places, we can't use sbName).
    Vulnerable to Fire You are vulnerable (+50% damage) to Fire damage.

    CR 6 - 11 HD

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    Grom Kranock wrote:

    Sorry for the FAQ request in the title.

    James Risner wrote wrote:
    Threads are not supposed to have "FAQ request" or similar in the title. There is a FAQ on this.
    I have checked the Core Rulebook FAQ page and could not find anything related to unseen servant. Is it more of a general rule about spell effects or something like that?

    It's not a hard rule - but it's also suggested as bad form by the people who answer the questions....

    Here is the link:


    Should I put "FAQ request" or “Designer response needed” in my post or thread?
    Doing so suggests that your post or thread is more “worthy” of staff attention than someone else’s thread which doesn’t include this text.
    Also, because having more FAQ clicks doesn’t make a thread more likely to be answered, doing this to encourage more FAQ clicks doesn’t help you.
    Finally, most people insisting they need a designer or developer to weigh in with an official answer are in a situation where they’re disagreeing with the GM or another player and one side refuses to budge unless they get an official response from Paizo, and Paizo doesn’t want to encourage that sort of heavy-handedness.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    BigNorseWolf wrote:
    Ckorik wrote:

    As a formless force any creature counts as three size categories larger - even a diminutive one.

    This is made up. You can't use this to "correct" something that i said thats "Wrong"

    Well the idea of a 'formless force' having a 'form' is made up to begin with - I thought we were continuing down that line of thought.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    BigNorseWolf wrote:

    Sure it takes up a square. However taking up a square doesn't 'block' movement through that square. It only 'blocks' staying in that square at the end of the movement.

    It can't attack of opportunity - it can't provide flank - it can't threaten - so who cares?

    any melee opponent that wants to attack you when you summon 8 of these things to guard you
    A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is. Creatures moving through squares occupied by other creatures provoke attacks of opportunity from those creatures.

    As a formless force any creature counts as three size categories larger - even a diminutive one. As it doesn't threaten it can't take the attack of opportunity.

    So that doesn't matter.

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    Lets make an assumption....

    Sure it takes up a square. However taking up a square doesn't 'block' movement through that square. It only 'blocks' staying in that square at the end of the movement.

    It can't attack of opportunity - it can't provide flank - it can't threaten - so who cares?

    What's the point of this question - are you going to summon an army of these things to stand around a wizard and thus 'protect' him? Ranged (as it's invisible and shapeless it doesn't provide cover) and reach weapons stop that from being worth the investment, spring attack works as well. I don't get the point of why it matters - and as such I won't keep track of the 'square' it's using - especially considering that 'shapeless' is actually smaller than 'tiny' which can already share squares with foes - so I'll go with:

    takes up a square - can share space with others due to size (smaller than tiny) - has no cmd or way to threaten - makes no difference to game regardless of answer.

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