Cicattrix's page

Again, I liked your story and I liked how in detail you thought the ruin map and the encounters. But, from what I’ve read there, I had the impression that the PCs don’t have too many choices to make on their own. „Hurry, folks! Kill monsters or solve the puzzles! You’ll enter here after that and then there and there. Go! Go! Go!”…

You offer many details for the DM, but the players seem to be simple actors. Sure, in order to keep the pace and finish the game in time, they must be guided. But I think that you should let them chose a way or another from time to time, in order to give them the feeling that they are in the control, not the DM. Or, your proposal looks like a commando mission, with a precise tactic plan. Or like a DM made homebrew adventure.

Anyway, don`t put to much price on my opinion. I just say what I feel from what I see, comparing with the published adventures that I`ve read. And I may be very wrong, mainly because I never played and I don`t know how peoples like to play. But, from what I`ve read in the manuals, in the adventures and in other design related sources, I`ve formed the impression that players like to decide their fate and the authors and DMs must give them some choices to made. However, I am sure that sometimes peoples like to play commando missions too. Which I don`t think that is a bad thing…

If I`m wrong in my opinion, I`d like to tell me that and why. It will help me to understand better the role-player psychology.

Navdi, my question was for the second riddle. And in the proposal is no alternative solution.

I don`t want to argue for the sake of arguing, but I have some experience with official competitions and I know that nasty situations can occur when rules are not clear.

We can`t choose what assumption we like. We are not talking about a home casual game. The Society is an official competition and a competition can`t work with common sense assumptions. There must be strict rules for what happen in any possible case. Exactly like in the game rules case.

When someone organize a session, at a convention or at a store, he must already know such answers, not to call Joshua to help him resolve this issues or make instant house rules.

As long the competition rules don`t require a good knowledge of the settings, such situations can occur. Maybe not too often, but as long it can happen, the Society rulers must take it in consideration.

Let’s suppose that we are at a convention… What happen if no players from a table know anything about the ioun stone or the calendar? I didn`t seen any Society rule to say that you must be expert in the Golarion lore, even at these tiers. The DM must have a Gazetteer at him or the players should run to buy one from the Paizo stand? Or call a friend?...

Thanks for the feedback and support.
I am not feeling bad about my submission, because I consider there is always space for improvement. I am just ashamed about my language careless.

You have an interesting story, a clear map of the ruins and well-detailed encounters. But, these are the „troubling” points, in my opinion:

1. Maybe you should add the CRs for monsters and traps and ELs for encounters.
2. You should be more explicit in the Introduction about the mission. They know from the start about the exact location of the Dirge or there are clear clues as they enter in ruins area? From what you said there, seems that they had no idea („has sent a team to explore the ruins and recover anything that remains of The Dirge.”), but then you treat the encounters as they know for sure that it is within the ziggurat.
3. What are the chances that one of the PCs to know Abyssal? What happen if the answer is 0? Have they any alternative?
4. Ignoring the language requirement, how will find the PCs the answer to your riddle from the first encounter? Maybe I am just too newbie, but I never would have figured those three items from your description. It seems to me that the party must wander through those other three buildings and search for any clue. Nevertheless, this will be time eating, when you know how the scenario are conducted.
5. The second riddle, from the Observatory, is definitely a TPD (total party dazzler). Again, may be my newbieness, but your riddle would be too hard for a player like me. I don’t know what kind of riddles are in Boomer’s Third Riddle, but here ([http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinde rSociety/scenarioSubmissionTalk/noMorePlayingOnWords) was a discussion about word riddles and puzzles and Paizo`s headhunters stated that will no let authors to use them again.
6. What happen if the PCs can’t answer to your riddles? Is there any skill challenge alternative? Or they had only „go back home” alternative? You will make Eric and Jason proud about your Golarion calendar knowledge, but the PCs surely will curse you.

You seem to me to think too much from the DM perspective. Maybe even only as a DM. It is just an outline, but, from how you presented it, the PCs are the DM pawns, and he will tell them exactly what to do and where to go and will give them no alternative option, other that fight and answer. Other way, they will waste a lot of the game time wandering or wondering.

I was impressed by the level of detail of your encounters and by how easy you seem to handle them. May be the fact that I am just a newbie and this is something common for an experienced player or DM, but for me was very instructive.

As for the story, I enjoyed it, but it seemed a little strange to me, maybe even "Alien". That destrachan was too intelligent for my expectations and for what MM say about his kind. Moreover, I am not sure if all those monsters had a place in Mwangi Expanse. However, maybe I am too conservative about some monsters capacities.

Josh said „ancient culture”... 350 years ago could make for „old”, but not for „ancient”. And that dead town did not seem to be enough for a „culture”. An „ancient culture”, from what I seen in Golarion, must have existed in the Azlanti`s time, as after their fall the world entered into an dark era.

I judged your submission only from the story perspective… I see that you were very careful with the monster CR and advancement, but that is not all that is need, in my opinion.

I think the story is important even for an adventure. And I think that the hooks are the key for keeping the players in the adventure world. Although, you can simply drop some minis on the table and ask your players what they want to “hack” that day.

The „silver” problem is not in the numbers. Naming that club Silver Lady is redundant, unless you give us a strong motivation for the utility of that name. More than that, it competes with your main plot, because it opens a door in the middle of the story and you can’t close it from what I seen. Think how a reader/player will think… What is with that name related with the title of the adventure? Is this club the key of the mystery? Is there more that we can now about it? Will the author tell us later?

Or, that club has no special meaning to the plot, being just a location for one of the NPCs and the stage for an encounter. Let the readers find the answer by they own; don’t put them on the walls, to be sure they will see them. You must be more subtle in dropping the hints and revealing the mystery.

Well, that name is not such a big problem for your submission, but I like to explain what I think…

Well, it looks that my submission was a "critical 1"…

Too bad that we can`t changes our characters in life...

By answering to Navdi questions, I do not intended to show that what and how I done it is correct. Now I see clear that I took to many suppositions.

I am starting to became smaller and smaller. I have run a simple Word spelling check and now I see about what mistakes you are talking. Even the email is missing a letter. And it was a so simple tool at my hand… Stupid me!

Now this is a life lesson...

Scribbling Rambler, please post your submission into a new thread. Other way the comments for you and JaredSmith113 will mix up.

Bureaucratic negotiation with Rostam (EL -)
Harabanar has used his influence to make sure no outsiders interfere in the trials of the merchants. The Pathfinders must use a combination of guile and charm to convince the haughty minor functionary Deputy Sub-Prefect Rostam to grant them permission to become officially involved in Arkis’s trial.

Trapped evidence room and puzzle vault (EL 6/9)
The main evidence against Arkis is in a heavily trapped room at the courthouse. The Pathfinders must break into the room while avoiding detection, and open a Qadiran puzzle vault to steal the incriminating documents.

Why they should steal the documents if they get officially involved in the trial? This could jeopardize their mission and make them the main suspects for the theft, as being directly interested to make those evidences lost. Well, if the PCs failled the first encounter, the second make sense, but now the last encounter becomes obsolete.

I like the ideea, but I am affraid that you lost something in the 750 words stretching process...

Salomeh's owner Nour Azizi, an efreeti disguising as a merchant, sent her to seduce and spy on Hirad. Hirad soon fell blindly in love with Salomeh and, not yet knowing the Fireheart's true value, gave it to her as a gift. He even commissioned a silver statue in her likeness. Now Salomeh has gone missing. Hirad would go to any lengths to get her back, including getting a team of Pathfinders to work for him on a false pretense.

How come that Hirad is not yet knowing the Fireheart true value, if he contacted the Society to sell it? And why he gave it as a gift, if it for sale?! And how can he give his lover a gift without too much value in his eyes?! And why call some Pathfinders, when he can hire some local mercs to do the job?!

Afterwards, the Pathfinders head to the Silver Lady, a gentlemen's club owned by Azizi, where they find out more about Salomeh's recent activities. Apparently Salomeh has spent a lot of time with Jahandar Nazari, a promising young sculptor.

Jahandar agrees to take the Pathfinders to his studio, an abandoned shrine on the outskirts of town where he says he's keeping Salomeh hidden. Jahandar has redecorated the shrine completely. The shrine's new centerpiece is a life-size silver...

Too much Silver lady/statue just to fit the title... You could be more subtle...

I like the story plot, but you force the ties too much. And you kill the girl too easy to make me, as a potential player, to believe her reasons...

I like the background story that you made for the ruins, but the stupid Jack is not credible to me. Or, at least, I am not sure that this hook can be explained and "played" too well into the scenario format. Maybe you should started the scenario at the ruins...

It looks to me that you think only from DM perspective.

Add to this that I agree with the Scribbling Rambler and Craig...

A few comments.

Thank you, Navdi for your feedback. I will try to review your proposals too. Now I will answer your questions...

Grammar. The amount of mistakes makes this a very heavy read. I'm guessing your native language is Spanish, or some such.

I am Romanian and I know that I have some problems with the grammar. But my wife is an english teacher. I am not sure about what mistakes you talk, but if they existed in the scenario proposal it means that she did a lousy job. Shame...

Stuff from sources other than the SRD. This either requires a considerable amount of space dedicated to backstory and stat blocks or an assumption that the prospective DM owns the books in which the monsters/creatures/organizations/prestige classes/whatnot appear.

Well, lets count those who need stats printed in scenario: one - Ethal, the elf Chronicler, two - Alix, the Darklight (Cheliax PF Society counterpart) agent, three - the Useen lizardfolks. Now, depends if it is necesary to have stats for the monsters that were published in some modules: Pygmy keches (Gamemastery Module W2 - River into Darkness) and Crepitus (GameMastery Module LB1 - Tower of the Last Baron). As we all know, scenarios are released as pdfs, so the space should not be a problem...

Is this a rescue mission? When are the PC involved? Are they part of the original expedition or are they sent in after the kidnapping?

It not start as an rescue mission, but it becomes after the first encounter. I have said in the Introduction that the PC are sent with those two Pathfinders...

Marcus informed the Decemvirate that he had discovered the existence of a fell song, which had destroyed one of the ancient civilizations from Garund, and that he knew were it could be found and how to dechiper it. He asked for the Society help to organize a discreet expedition in the Mwangi Expanse and this task was put on the PCs shoulders.

What relevance do the pygmies have to the plot? Also, what's a pygmy kech.

A pygmy kech is a kind of half-monkey, half man and were published in module W2. I wanted them to set the feeling of the jungle journey. I ould throw there another group of Lizardfolks, but I wanted to have more diverse encounters.

You did notice the tiers assigned to this adventure? The CR's you've got here won't last a single round against a dedicated PC group.

Harsh question... If I did not noticed the tiers, why I have included those CR there?!... But I understand the point of your irony.

EL 9/11: Pygmy mistakes
Tracking the lizardfolks, the party is intercepted by a pygmy patrol and must fight with 5/7 Pygmy Keches (CR 3) and 1/2 Leopards (CR 2).

As the PC are tiers 7–8 or 10–11, the 3.5e rules learned me that all the monsters above make for a 9 or 11 encounter level. And that the PC get XP according the assigned EL and CRs. Now, if these monsters die to easy in battle with a party of those lvls, that is another issue. As I said, these guys are there for the flavour. I could throw there one or two big monsters, but I wanted a mob fight. And what jungle journey would be that without a fight with some natives?!...

Now, for the rest of the encounters I used the same math, but as you see, the CR of the monsters are a little more higher. Maybe they are too easy to dispose too, but I wanted monsters that fit in the flavour of my story and make the adventure fun. Also, not knowing for sure how much a fight with so many monsters can take (the DMG say, but that is theory), it seemed to me an time gaining solution if an encounter don`t last more than 30-45 minutes. But, maybe my estimates were far from the real play reality...

What happens if the PC-group slaughters the shaman and all of his men? How will they find their way to the next encounter?

As I`ve said in the Introduction, Marcus and Ethal knows were those ruins are. They could take any route as long they know the final destination.

"If Alixia feels that all is lost, she tells Tertalha to fly with the Marcus transcription and tries to execute him." - What's a Marcus Transcripion? Execute whom?

You have meet Marcus in the first line of the Introduction. Now, why do you think the Darklight party have kiddnaped him? I really don`t understand what is wrong in that frase...

Transcription (linguistics), the conversion of spoken words into written language. Also the conversion of handwriting, or a photograph of text into pure text.

"And, if they don`t committed Unseen xenocide, someone could return the eggs to the shaman." This sentence is quite confusing. I'm guessing the intent is something along the lines of: "Unless the PC killed all the Unseen they can return the eggs to the shaman."

Well, I tried a kind of word play within a joke. Your guessing is right, but I fail to see what was so confusing...

I strongly suggest you get a native English speaker to help you with your grammar.

Well, I think I need another wife first...

To help you understand some of the decisions I took, I must tell you a few things:

- I never played a roleplaying game and I started to learn about D&D and Pathfinder from octomber 2008.
- I have read a few scenarios and modules, especially those two based on Mwangi. And I have read the setting books also.
- I did not named the ruins and I did not chosen a starting town point knowing that Paizo will provide all this if it was the case. Is their world and the fall of on ancient civilizations is something that I supose have a clear entry in their world database.
- I suposed that Josh would like more a kind of ruin crawl with some of those ancient peoples ghost and some abberations, but I liked more the "jungle journey" feeling.
- I knew that I take a great risk using some special Golarion features, aka Darklight organization, the Pathfinder Chronicler PrC and the Unseen Lizardfolk. But the setting was so right for the Unseens and the Darklights with their devils servitors were such a great villains. Beside this, because my goal was to susprise the players (not to TPK them like others I`ve heard!), the little trick with those two Pathfinders tempeted me too much to not take the risk.
- I thought that it could be an issue with the fact that they required too much space for the stats, but, scenarios being pdf only, I considered that the number of the pages would not be a problem..
- Maybe I upped too much the Unseens CRs, but I took in consideration that they are not normal CR1 Lizardfolk, their cameleonic ability being a great advantage in battle.
- For the sake of the "jungle feeling", like was the Pygmy encounter case, I wanted to put a Deinonychus pack feeding with the Mwangi and Unseen corpses. followed by one/two Megaraptors attracted by the battle noise. But I was affraid that there will be no time for that fight and i dropped the scene. Also, I did not knew also what plans have Paizo with the Dinosaurs in their world, as they tell almoust nothing about them in their setting books. Untill now, from what i know, they were used only in J3, wich is based in an isolated area. My suposition was that or they are very rare, living in a kind of Lost World valleys, or the Mwangi Expanse is full of them, being on top of the food chain.
- Derhii, the flying apes form J3, could be an interesting options for at least the second encounter but their are described as related with the fallen flying city and, like in the dinos case, I suposed that this is how Paizo want them. If I used them, I would make them the fourth party of the plot and put them to chase the PCs for killing their patrol.
- I did not had the space to write it, but, to keep the PCs in suspanse and emulate the jungle conditions, I have developed a kind of cross DC, wich would be used at the begining of each act and would determine the health condition of the PCs at the start of the encounters. One was the Fortitude check, in order to stat their non-lethal HP, and the other was a kind of Luck Check, from wich the PC with the lower score would have taken some penalties/damage, from an "hazard table", as if he/she was attacked by some animal or have been injured by some jungle things.
- A few details about the devils from Darlight party... The Crepitus (from LB1) uses invisibility to steal the eggs. Those two barbazu were summoned by the erinyes Tertalha and were charged to carry Marcus and the eggs.

I will end here by thanking you for your time...

Like many others, I have sent an proposal for Scenario #28, the one with the fell song from the Mwangi ruins. As it went back with a kick in the ass and it is incapable to tell me what it did wrong on Paizo exam chamber, I will be gratefull for every opinion or advice that can help me to understand what was wrong in my process of scenario crafting.

Before you start reading, know that I used x/x to represent the number of monsters or their CR, for each tier lvl required (7-8/ 10-11).

Here it is, hidding shyly behind this button...

Exactly 750 words...

1. GSL let 3PP only to create alternate/new races, clases, monsters, item and adventures. They don`t let 3PP change a word from the core books. And, even worse, they don`t let them to copy nothing official. So, how could Necromancer create a "classic" 4e D&D without thouching the old races, classes, monsters or rules? Maybe creating subraces and subclasses with old names: Greyhawk Dwraf, Maure Elf, Demonweb Drows, Gygax Barbarians, Jacobs Succubus, Necromancer Skeleton...

2. About Pathfinder conversion... Wizards developed in 4e a new system for creating monsters and encounters. And they have also changed some monsters radically. So, I think 4e and Pathfinders operate with different power levels. I don`t know how balanced are Scott conversions, but I am sure there would be big problems in using a lot of the monsters wich got a higher lvl or different stats and powers. Yes, you can change those monsters with others more apropriate in lvl, but, in this case, what is the use of an official conversion? Get the adventure home, throw some 4e monsters from the 4e MMs and the game session is ready to go. Is something that DMs do at every new D&D edition, but that don`t require any official assistance.

3. With the risk of playing Scott role, I repeat that Paizo can`t stategically do 4e conversions for their adventures. This would be suicidal for the PFRPG. They need to sell their own game and its rulebooks if they wanna remain independent. They need to make 4e players to taste Pathfinder game and how can they do that if they give them Golarion 4e adventures?! Give them the Pathfinder Adventure Path in 4e and they will make subscriptions for it, and maybe Chonicles, and will return on this site in six months, being busy to read DDI, and never would they care about PFRPG. And that you call a good bussines oportunity?!"If you like that much our setting and/or our adventures, come play them with our game. " That`s how Wizards think and that how Paizo must think. And that is what James just said...

4. When I see Wizards asking for permision to convert their adventures to PFRPG (because is a good bussines oportunity, some extra cash) then, maybe, should Lisa put the hand on that chellphone. Although, I`m sure that in that case would not be necesary, a such a move from WotC meaning that their edition is dead...

5. Deal Scott! I realize now that is a waste of time to tell something to some one who don`t listen you. Keep asking James, in your "civil" way, to call at Wizards for an indulgence cause you dont wanna play in Golarion with Jason rules. Mea culpa! I am wrong, you know better everything and anytime. I know you are not a bad person, just your god exalted you to much. End of the flame war for me...

Oh, I am affraid to even ask... But... don`t tell me that the Erinyes will be on the Player Manual instead of Bestiary?!... And the sucubbus/incubbus too?!... You are spoiling us too much...

I see also an issue with the Golarion new breed of monsters that are published in the adventures, modules and scenarios...

How you will use them on future works if they will not be yet in any Bestiary? You can refer for their stats to Module X0x or Pathfinder #X, but if the buyer don`t have that specific book?! I am sure you will not play dirty and force players to buy that adventure too, just for that monster. Wich leave you the alternatives to avoid their use (lets say Lamia Matriarch) untill they get in some manual or include their stats again.

I am not sure that puting them on Bestiary #2 is a perect solution. You fix in 2010 the problem for the 2008 and 2009 monsters, but then you`ll bring others wich would wait another yea, at least, to be colected. Maybe a kind of Christmas anual Paizo Breed Colection/Bestiary/Menagery will be more efficient to gather your new creations. Or maybe you allready have the right solution...

Cicattrix wrote:

It is true that this book will have a two page poster depicting an epic fight between a Succubus and an Erynies?!...

It is not, sadly.

Why?!... Jason favors the balors and the skeletons more?! Or is he affraid that the iconics beauty will be eclisped?!

No problem! I am sure that we will have it on the DMG Screen then...

It is true that this book will have a two page poster depicting an epic fight between a Succubus and an Erynies?!...

smart move!...

There is no need for D&D logo to promote Pathfinder.

As Jason said, there were 40.000 downloads for Beta PFRPG pdf. Add to this that Eric said that Paizo print around 10.000 copies per book and Wizards around 60.000 copies. Make the math and become clear that a great majority of the D&D players know about the Paizo new game. Now, if only 20.000 players would buy the PFRPG core books I am sure there will be summer at Paizo all the year. As they stated in the last summer anoucment.
Off course, if those players would not buy D&D 4e books, that will hurt a little the Hasbro wallet.

The strong point for the Paizo is their online community and store. Why do you think WotC took the D&D magazines from the Paizo and launched the D&D Insider?!

The things are very clear with Scott blog. If he posts there any part from one adventure, he is breaking the copyright law. Is like posting an entire chapter for the last R.A. Slavatore book on your blog...

I am sorry about Scott work, but he is on a wrong rute. And probably no one at Paizo didnt checked that blog till now...

Portela, you are so right. And I had made a mistake in my last post. Now I see clear...

Scott dear, you are great, we can have the Paizo adventures for free from your blog and we don`t need to purchase them anymore. How convenient. When can we get the next one? Don`t worry, for that money saving i`ll make the reconversion at home...

Man, it is bad, you can not play the conversion game on public, even for free. Some people invested money in the production of those adventures...

Scott, they can`t stop you play on your blog if you give away your conversions for free.

But, they can`t let you sell your conversions without checking their content and without charging you for that. It is their IP and they must control the way it get to the public. And they must also get their share from sells. Sound like a PFAP francise, but that will force them to put an editor or developer to check every conversion you made and negotiate its content with you. While they can put that one skilled man to make himself the conversions and keep all the profit into the company accounts.

Is there on the market some company that had lend their homemade adventures to a 3PP to convert them for some competitor game system? Had ever WotC let someone to convert their homemade adventures to other systems?!

Oh, Scott, I have read some threads from 4e section and I apreciate your conversion efforts. And I am sure you have good intentions. But you are acting like the inquisitor monks into conquistadorial South America. While you should act like a shaolin monk. You fervor harrass people and close your ears and eyes. Your god is 4e and you think that all people must believe in him. Why dont are you a good cleric and let people believe in what they want? Why don`t you keep your preaches into your temple and chase peoples on the threads?! Open your eyes! You scare them! The faith come as an inspiration and can`t be implanted by force into the people heads and hearts.

Now, please stop your thoughts train for five seconds an try to see what I had said here...

It is not about market share and marginal profit. It is all about company public image. From the day they announced Pathfinder RPG, Paizo had ceased to be a minor 3PP and had entered into the big league of games producers. Although they have a lower capacity of production and a smaller market share, they are a direct and major competitor for Wizard of the Coast. And they are not anymore a mouse who try to eat some from what drops from the beak of the big eagle. So, Lisa simply can`t go and bow to the mighty wizards and beg them to let James to hunt some rabbits from their huge forest. Not as long Paizo want to show that they are confident about the Pathfinder RPG succes...

Your answer is very relevant your wrong perception...

Producing a short conversion document for their adventure path releases would demonstrate, quite conclusively, that Paizo is committed to its own revision to the 3.5 rules set, but understands that some of its fans play other games and would still like to be able to enjoy the consistently high-quality adventure content that Paizo puts out.

Scott dear, that "revision" has an name. It is Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and it is a lot more that a simple revision. It is an full grown game that compete with the other game, named Dungeon&Dragon - 4th Edition. And, starting from august, the Pathfinder Adventure Path, as the other additional books and adventures will be compatible with the PFRPG and not anymore with the official D&D, as 4e will be the only legal version of this game on the market.

You can make how many conversions to 4e you like, for Pathfinder or even Warhammer, and maybe some 3PP could do it too. But you can`t ask James to call at Wizard and ask if they let him do some conversion work in order to take more of their market share. Even if that is what some fervent fans (who seems to love Golarion but not Pathfinder RPG) demand. Get serious!

Imagine how will be if an Apple CEO would call at Microsoft and ask to let them make some of their products compatible with Windows? Oru imagine Konami (WoW TCG, Yughioh TCG) asking Wizard to let them make some of their allready produced sets compatible with the Magic rules, only because it is "the most popular game" in TCG industry and they could sell them twice to the players. Sure, they can call, in theory, but that is something no one would do in practice...

Why I am talking all this things with you? Because you prozelitism hurt me too. Listen to yourself, man!... You demand ("ask" would too gentle here) James to convert their adventures because you only like the stories and the world they created, but you don`t wanna play them in the way they are intended, D&D4e beeing better, for you, that their "revison". Can you see how offending is that?! They wanna show us that they can stay on their feet, but you send them to do their homework with those little 3PPs. For your 4e god sake, it is painfull even to hear you telling them this things...

And... you keep talking about Paizo "fans", like a good sheperd of us...

but understands that some of its fans play other games and would still like to be able to enjoy the consistently high-quality adventure content that Paizo puts out.

... so, do yo dare to go on Wizards forums and ask Bil Slavicek or James Wyatt to call at Paizo to let them convert their adventures to PFRPG?!...

Scott, as others told you on Paizo messageboards, you make a bad image to 4e. If I didn`t studied 4e before "meeting" your zealottery, I certainly started too hate that game. Stop patronize us, man! You are better at converting PF adventures to 4e that at converting people to 4e...

Some of you here can`t hear what James speak aloud because you think too much at what you, personally, wish... I dont intend to hurt no one, but some 4e lovers tend to push too much. I am new to the roleplay world, but I love both editions and both settings. And I value the 3PP work too. But, if you don`t think only at your desires, is easy to undestand each companies motivations and goals...

It is not about market share and marginal profit. It is all about company image. From the day they announced Pathfinder RPG, Paizo had ceased to be a minor 3PP and had entered into the big league of games producers. Although they have a lower capacity of production and a smaller market share, they are a direct and major competitor for Wizard of the Coast. And they are not anymore a mouse who try to eat some from what drops from the beak of the big eagle. So, Lisa simply can`t go and bow to the mighty wizards and beg them to let James to hunt some rabbits from his huge forest. Not as long Paizo want to show that they are confident about the Pathfinder RPG succes...

Picture this... Adventure introduction... The former herald Paizo leaved the Mighty Wizard court to become a farmer. They now grow cattle, sheeps and pigs, and sell them pretty well. In the meantime, the wizard still make money from the game hunted on the vast forest he posses. He have his own rangers, but had indulged some mercenaries to hunt in his forest, with the condition to sell the game on his courtyard. So, that they will bring more customers to his own market. Now, what you think?!... Would Paizo daddy be greedy for a few more coins and send one of his sons to become a mercenary, or he would be confident that his familly can keep the farm profitable?! Would he humiliate in front of his former master, showing that he was wrong leaving, or he would demonstrate that there is life outside wizard slavery?!...

For me things are very clear... WotC live into a corporate world, in wich they must show a growing sale chart at the end of each year, although the big Hasbro dragon would fire them out. Paizo folks live in a boemic world, in wich they are happy if they can live their dreams and make enough money to eat pizza and buy books and minis. Why they should be greedy for something they not care?!...

Pfuiii... I tend to writte to much... Forget my language mistakes, I am not native (what good excuse!).

thouching... elegant...
lucky son to have such a dad...

From what I understand Paizo is keeping the classic groupings for devils and demons. Succubi are the physical corruptors for the demons. Where the Eryines tempt for personal power, the Succubi tempt for physical power...they just use similar methods.

That is my perception too, from what I see in their products. But I try to tempt James to see what he thinks about this. Although WotC new vision make the boundaries more obvious. The irony here is that 4e don`t use alignments, but made devils more lawfull and pushed the demons to an total chaotic attitude. Wich, make sense and is pretty flavourfull, but dont make obsolete the 3.5e vision...

While I would personally like to see a Pathfinder versions of the Incubus, they could easily be presented as male versions of the succubus (or the same creature given their ability to change forms).

Like that one pictured in Savage Tide episode from Dragon 353, page 33... As Incubbus is taken from real world mythology, so is not subject of any license. Just bring new awsome art and new stats and make Thraxus one happy evil DM...

In Jewish mysticism, Na'amah was one of the "angels of prostitution" (the term angel meaning messenger here) and could easily be used to fill the role of Malcanteth. Given the similarites, Lilith could serve as her opposite number among devils (which is why there are similar creatures in both camps).

Probably Eric and James had created allready these queens and will surprise us with them in the setting books dedicated for Hell and Abyss. But, for the pleasure of the discusion, I think that Na'amah suit the Erinyes better, as being both angels, and Lilith match bettr with the succubus, as being a kind of Sin Godess. See Lilitu, twisted succubus...

As to mooks, I actually like the idea. I have used low CR creatures (minimum for XP) as grunts backing up a "boss" type at higher levels. The players usuale mow through them. This is harder to pull off at low levels.

As someone explained very clear in another thread (4e likes/dislikes), the use of low lvl monsters from 3.5e dont make good substitution for the minions mechanic. Their fun is the low HP, wich make them fall quick and give you the superhero feeling. I am sure you all know better than me this feeling. But I see here three problems... First, I don`t know if the 3.5e system could sustain such a mechanic. Second, I don`t think there is time and space in the Bestiary #1 for this. And third, I am not sure that Paizo overminds are happy to implement an ideea taken allready by WotC, although there is no copyright issue, or if they like it. Anyway if they really want to do it, they could come with a kind of Bestiary of Minions, wich will put togheter all monsters suitablle for such an suplication. Or at least some kind of "minion creation rule" in the Pathfinder Rulebook...

From the start I`ll stat that I understand that Paizo`s purpose with Pathfinder RP is to improve 3.5e system and carry on the flame of the old fashion D&D style. And also I`ll stat that is very clear for me that 4e system was designed and developed as an enhanced visual version of the game, based on the miniatures, in order to keep up with the computer games competition.
But, there are a few things that are interesting from my perspective, and must be, at least, taken in discution:

1. The 4e Sucubbus switched parties and has gone with the devils. As they explained, now the devils are some kind of mutant humanoids, while the demons are presented to be more twisted in shape (and clothing, see MM2 cover). So, the nice and smooth skin of the tailed girls was not fitting anymore into the Abyss. Wich I think is a good logic, if you want to make those two categories more distinctive. Add to that the fact that as a begginer, it was very difficult for me to understand the 3e differences between devil and demons, others than name, allignment and birth place.
Also, I thought that they will throw out the Erynies as the Succubus moved in, but I see that these fallen angels are in the MM2. Well, seems that the devils needed some archers too...
Yes, I know that in Golarion world the Erynies work with the corrupted Cheliax and that the Succubus are allready featured as demons on D3 Module, but I am curious if Paizo will make the switch like WotC? I supose not, and I see a lot of good and viable reasons for this too, but I think an official answer will make things more clear.

1,5. Will Paizo include in their world setting and bestiaries the extended familly of succubus (incubbus, lilitu, cambion, alu-demon, kelvezu), wich was so well used in Savage Tide AP? Most of them are probably closed content, but the backgroung story of the Malcanteth (closed too) experiments was very inspiring and will be a pitty to let it go so easy. I am sure James&Co. can create new cool names and twisted stories for them...

2. I was a big fan of Diablo series and I had spent days and nights with my wife cleaning that Cathedral from Diablo I. It was so fun to slay dozens of skeletons and pseudo-goblins that assaulted us in mobs at the first levels. Now I think to learn her this new kind of game...
So when I`ve seen the 4e Minions rules, they bringed back pleasant memories. As I found that this ideea was imported from another game and is not something orginal from WotC, I think that will be great if Patfinder will have it too. The minions will not change the 3.5d system, just will add a new monster variant (role) and a new option for the DMs and authors. And more fun for hack&slash lovers...

I should point out, as well, that in the first 32 scenarios there is one word puzzle and that was in #1.

As the master of the Society, Josh knows best...

Checked now and seen that Black raven has quoted a wrong scenario. And I was too lazy to to look at it. Mea culpa...

Anyway, is not such a big deal. The Pathfinder is such a big project, that is inevitable to have some bugs at the begining. As any new game...

The main ideea was about language accesibillity...

yoda8myhead is right...

It looks to me that you want to answer the last Open call, but you did not read the words of Josh with too much care. He give there very precise indications for the open call purpose. And there is a link to a very useful not-to-do in submissions. To get a right ideea, I advise you to search and read all the entries related to Open calls posted by Josh in the Paizo blog.

Anyway, you should know that for the rest of this year the open calls are closed. And, from what I understund from some Paizo officials posts, they don`t accept submissions for modules. Is their world and they must keep control of what happen in it...

Indeed, in the case you presented, it looks a little discriminating... And this is something to not be done again, if Paizo want non-english buyers for scenarios and the Society program. Or, at least, the autors should offer an alternate riddle for non-englishers...

Also, as it is part of an official competition, I think it would be fair if Paizo will release a kind of WE/eratta with another riddle for the named scenario.

I am from Romania and I understand written english very well. But, as the globalization open new markets, the publishers must understand that is hard for us, the "outsiders" :), to keep the pace with the autors every new invented playfull word. As in our languages case, the new expresions could be very cool, but if the reader don`t understand them, it is like they don`t exist for him/her. Of course, there is google and there is wikipedia, but I think that a box for these special cases would be fair game for us.

On the other hand, Paizo knows the countries of the subscribers and if only a few of them are non-US and non-UK, I can understand that there are no commercial reasons to sustain such a special treatment.

when you start the next campaign? i`m hungry...

nice stories, ladies! shame on you boys!

looks like rebuking death leaves serious damages on the brain. otherway I can`t explain why the drunk thug can`t keep an journal after he remained without his drugs. I think Valeros should be better left to die.

something is wrong in this adventure... the cleric is the best fighter and the most rational of all, when he is suposed to stand on the back and mumble to the gods. the barbarian is the best writter and storyteller, when is expected to be slowthinking and quickraging. the elf is shortminded and imature, when is presumed to be full of calm and wisdom, even as an rogue. the wizzard is incoerent and grumpy, when his primary abilities are Wisdom and Inteligence. and the fighter... well, I allready talked about the fighter and is no need to give more bravos to the "hot" Qadira girl...

mister DM, pleas find an quick way to throw those two boys into an endless pit and let the ladies have fun with the crypt villain.

p.s. they call them barbarian because are uneducated and uncivilized or only because they needed an name for a class tjat can wield gargatuan swords?!

thank you, Paris! actually, the user-friedly site of Paizo made me to take a second look at the roleplaying genre. I]ve seen D&D products for many years, but Wizards didnt succed in getting me involved...

about that song... that was my interpretation too, bt I wanted to be sure that there is nothing that I dont know.

Forgive my innocence, but is there a definition for the "fell song"?

I am new to this game genre and, untill now, I had succeded in the fight with the rules and some monsters, but I didnt reached yet the library with spells and the reliquary with magic items. So I don`t know if this "thing" exist in the OGL or is something Paizo loremasters will reveal it later to us. Can anyone get me out of this mistery?!

Many thanks!

great adventure you had, guys. as I`ve never played roleplay games, I envy you for this great experience. a good kick in the ass to learn the game...

congratz, Pygon, for the journal. it was the best fantasy "movie" i`ve "seen" since LoTR trilogy. couldnt get my eyes off of this page. you are very skilled and you should writte more fiction...

As I`ve read the posts, three viable design solutions make their way into my mind:

1. Keep the riddles and puzzles, where the story motivate them. They are fun and flavourfull. And challenging.

2. Always offer two solutions for solving: the riddle answer and the DC check. So the DM can choose the right one for his PCs. Maybe they stiil have time, maybe thez really enjoy mind challenges. If not, there is no problem, cause even the succesfull DC check can be seen as an big achievment for those in rush or more fight inclined. Not everyone can solve an Sphinx riddle, isnt?!...

3. For non-native english speakers make that side-note to explain clearly the meaning of the riddle or puzzle, so that those DM can translate them properly to their PCs.

This way, everyone will be happy... It require a litte more work from writters, but I think it is worthy for both sides...

Wizards require more study to become "complete". So those missing years must have passed as Aprentice, at an Academy or at an lonely wizard...