Chubbs McGee's page

I had a character who didn't take Power Attack until 6th level. Am I a bad person?

Part of the reason we quit putting the pregenerated iconics in there is precisely because of this reaction.

I'm actually not at all interested in trying to make the most over-the-top numbercrunched optimized characters... be it in a game I'm running or as sample PCs. Partially because it's kind of soul-numbing, but also because it's pretty hard to sift through every possible spell option and try to perfect a stat block that, in the case of those sample PCs, is being done at the last minute anyway.

In fact, we often picked spells for the PCs based ENTIRELY on the length of the spell, since too many long-named spells would make the spells prepared not fit in the space we had available. In other cases, we'd pick spells (and feats and the like) that might not be "optimized" for a specific build, but are the perfect feats for that particular character.

For example as well... Merisiel is wearing studded leather armor because that's what she's wearing in her artwork.

The iconic stat blocks had FAR more masters to serve than the "Optimization Master." to the extent that serving the "Optimization Master" was never on the to-do list in the first place.

AKA: Those pregenerated characters are NOT intended to be optimized, but folks who want or expect them to be get worked up and therefore threads like these start up. So we quit doing it.

If you're looking for a better representation to how we build high-level wizards, a better place to look than the prebuilt PCs is to any high-level wizard NPCs in the adventure. Of course... those are built as NPCs with specific story goals and requirements their stats must serve first before any other master... and they've got worse stats than most PCs most of the time, so maybe not.

Happy to clarify the 'RP Tavern' thing, Azure. :)

As for conventions, I just realized that ours were badly in need of updating! I just spent the last hour doing so (funny how things evolve over the course of a year). I'm actually glad that I was given a reason to look them over since I have two old friends who will be joining Rumble in the Jungle within the next month. It would have been a bit embarrassing if THAT doc was outdated! ^_^;

As for character sheet/profiles, that's mostly an issue of ease of reference for the GM. If everyone's sheets are laid out the same way, it makes it much faster for me to quick-reference each player's stats. Having skills, feats, and combat info spoilered just means I have to spend longer scanning and clicking on the page to recognize the section I'm looking for.

by style I presume your referring to play style and not typing style.

As far as style, both of those are important to me actually. However, I'd consider typing style to be more relevant in the context of conventions, whereas play style is more relevant to player/GM expectations. For my group, expectations are a whole separate list. Yes, if something is on that list, it's because it came up at some point. ;)

I love the nature of adventuring. Adventuring has traditionally been a very dangerous if lucrative profession. Adventurers die, and die, and die some more. Some are lucky enough to only have to die once. What separates the adventurers that make it from the ones who were just another party that never returned? Well, I think creativity and preparation make the largest difference. I didn't think much about this sort of thing, until Peter Stewart said the following in another thread.

Honestly some of your tactics here have given me a great deal to think of for future characters. I'd be interested in a general thread on purchases you think are viable or needed at various levels, along with various tricks. A heightened continual flame hadn't even occurred to me, for instance.

My party could use some more asymmetrical means of combating such problems, as right now our tendency is to bully through them using brute force (usually taking tons of damage and expending tons of resources in the process). We're coming up on a long period though were we'll be able to resupply and reequip. :)

So since Peter asked, here's the beginning of a short advice column concerning D&D/Pathfinder and preparing for adventure. I'm cool with people asking questions or advice or tips on specific things; and I'll also answer questions concerning D&D 3.x as well (though I may have to reference the 3.0 SRD for particularly old school stuff, to make sure I'm not blurring too much).

As a simple disclaimer, I want to let everyone know that the advice below will assume that the standard rules are in play. It doesn't assume house rules or changes to the system. Just the goods, plain and simple. If your GM has any quirks concerning item availability, changes any spells, or otherwise alters something, YMMV.

Enough babbling, on with the tips!
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Introduction: Adventuring is a hard life. Few take up its call. Those who make it, go down as legends, and retire wealthy and with many amazing stories. Those who do not, inevitably forge their own stories as the ones who just survived, or never came back, or was the one that didn't make it. Yes, adventuring is a hard life. A life that takes you by surprise. The key to surviving isn't just about whose muscles are largest or who knows the most spells. Preparation, and clever thinking, can lead you to greater degrees of success. Shall you brave the dangers and come out on top, or be another tavern tale of the ones who never came back?

The first installment covers some general adventuring equipment.

Motel 6: There are a lot of monsters and enemies who like to spam darkness spells (and deeper darkness). Creatures like tieflings, drow, shadow demons, darklings, and dark folk are notorious for this. Many people complain that this is unfair; especially since most of these creatures either care nothing about the lighting condition's drawbacks, or can see through them fine (such as in the case of darklings and dark folk). So what is an adventurer to do?

Light spells (that is, the light subtype) such as light, continual flame, and daylight pierce magical darkness spells that are a lower level than themselves. A good adventuring tool is to have an item or two that has had a heightened continual flame spell cast on it to at least 4th level. That costs 330 gp including the material component, to have it purchased by NPC spellcasting. Suddenly, the legions of darklings and dark folk are nothing to you, as your continual torch (be it a torch, amulet, or even your belt buckle) shimmers and provides light that is unquenchable by spells such as darkness or deeper darkness unless they are also heightened. Since spell-like abilities are the level of the spell they are mimicing, that means a 4th level continual flame is never overpowered by a creature's SLAs.

I'm most fond of having continual flame cast on the inside of a locket, so you can conceal or reveal the light easily enough, and carry it without having hands free.

We'll leave the light on for you!

First Aid: There's a lot of terrible things that will hurt you in your adventuring career. Poisons, disease, incorporeal touch attacks. A lot of this stuff can leave you weathered, or even dead. So how do you deal with these things? How do you prepare for them away from the comfort of civilization?

Buy potions of delay poison and lesser restoration for 50 gp each. Yes, you heard me, 50 gp. Both are 1st level spells at 1st caster level, thanks to Paladins and Rangers. That sets the price of these items at 50 gp. The magic item creation rules clearly state that the value of magic items are based on the lowest possible caster levels, regardless of who makes 'em; so even if a cleric makes either, they're still only worth 50 gp.

Both potions are useful for helping a party keep up and going. Delay poison makes you immune to poison for 1 hour and ends poisons, but won't cure any of the ability damage taken beforehand. Lesser restoration removes ability penalties, heals 1d4 ability damage, and removes fatigue. Good potions all around to have on hand during an adventure.

+1 Swords? We don't need no stinkin' +1 Swords: Magic weapons are expensive, but sometimes you just need one. DR/Magic is pretty common, incorporeal creatures are a pain, that wizard is getting you down with protection from arrows; but you don't feel like shelling out 2,000 gp for what amounts to +1 damage over a masterwork blade?

Well magic weapon oils are 50 gp, and they last 1 minute at caster level 1. The oil can be applied to a melee weapon, ranged weapon, or poured right into a 50-stack ammunition sack. This is one of the main methods for 1st-3rd level PCs to even be able to combat incorporeal creatures like Shadows with any hope. Works for monk unarmed strikes as well. Since you can decide which weapon to apply it to, it's less of a gamble; as if you need it on your melee weapon, you use it on your melee; if you need it on your bow, you use it on your bow; and so forth.

Lay off the Juice Son: Okay, so steriods aren't a to be abused, but oils were made for it. You can apply an oil to a willing target during your turn. Having several party members slather down the party's melee with cheap potion effects can turn a fight really fast. Have one PC slather him or her with an oil of enlarge person, then the rest of the PCs apply oils like protection from evil or shield (I recently checked, yes you can make potions of shield, as personal range spells still declare you as a target), and expeditious retreat (see commentary about shield, above), true strike (see above, yadda-yadda), and remove fear.

Suddenly, you have a juggernaut of destruction, at the cost of 50 gp per potion. Best yet, the person you apply the oil provides you with soft cover if you come in directly behind them in relation to the enemy, which means enemies cannot make AoOs against you for applying the oil. Notice I mentioned using enlarge person first? Well there's a reason for that. Your ally expands, providing cover to the other PCs who jump in to apply oils.

For a 200 gp investment, you can hit your main tank with up to 4 solid buffs all in one round, many of which normally are only available to mages. Screw aid another. 50 gp can get your party's fighter a +20 to his next grapple check, which can end a fight instantly (hint: the penalty to bind up an enemy during a grapple is -10).

Right to Freedom of Alignment: Ok, let's face it. Sometimes your alignment bites you on the butt. It's great being a good guy and all, except when you're trying to infiltrate that evil cult that has the "No Paladins" sign hanging out side. So what's the poor poorly aligned fellow to do? Drink a potion. 50 gp nets you 24 hours of undetectable alignment. Thanks bards!

Alchemy? Alchem-you!: Alchemical goodies can often be overlooked, but they can be pretty useful, especially at low levels; but some are useful even at higher levels. Turn some vicious villains into trivial trials with a clever splash of chemical supremacy!

Alchemical weapons such as alchemist fire or acid flasks are beautiful when used by the whole party. They ignore damage reduction and target touch AC. They're ranged weapons, so they benefit from feats like Point Blank Shot, and Rapid Shot. They can be dual-wielded as well. By having your party focus-fire on a single tough cookie, you can bring them down to size in short order. For example, let's say you're facing down an enemy NPC in banded mail and carrying a tower shield. His AC is easily 22-23 at 1st level. Excellent time for a BBQ wrapped in tinfoil! Have everyone toss an alchemist fire. A 4 person party can easily land 4d6 damage on round 1, and another 4d6 on round 2 (from the burning). Sucks to be that guy!

Tanglefoot bags are amazingly good. Chuck a few of these at people or creatures you just don't like. It's an auto-entangle, which is already a petty nice debuff, but also threatens to glue them to the ground, prevent them from flying, and forces tough concentration checks to cast spells. Worst case scenario, the critter is still slowed by 1/2 its speed.

Probably the most overlooked alchemical item is the humble smoke stick. Cheap, and surprisingly effective. Unless wind conditions are much against you, dropping one of these lets you use Stealth as if you were a Ninja Turtle collecting bells, gain total concealment vs ranged attacks, and ruins sneak attacks. Yes, ruins sneak attacks. You can't sneak attack a target with concealment. You can drop a single smoke stick at your feet and even if you're surrounded by 20th level rogues, blind, and in the dark, you're immune to their sneak damage. Excellent against dirty roguish sorts, and even prevents an assassin's Death Attack. Brutally efficient.

Holy water. The anti-shadow. At 25 gp a pop, this stuff is kind of like acid of alchemist fire for undead and evil outsiders. Incidentally, it specifically affects incorporeal creatures as well. It deals 2d4 damage as a ranged touch attack that doesn't provoke attacks (see item description) if you shake the water at the enemy. 2d4 averages 5 damage, which means a 1st level party can tear a shadow apart by just running up and splashing it with holy water. Statistically, 4 holy waters will outright kill a shadow (and less should force the shadow to flee for its unlife), and frankly, 100 gp for a dead CR 3 enemy seems entirely reasonable to me! The fact it also deals splash damage, and is party friendly is double the fun. Alchemists even get to add their Intelligence modifier to the damage, allowing them to take apart some truly nasty critters in short order.

Aw, Nets: Nets are arguably one of the strongest weapons in the core handbook. They deal no damage, but are a non-magical ranged touch attack (meaning even the -4 non-proficiency penalty isn't so bad usually) which inflicts the Entangled condition on the target, and all that implies. To escape it, you must spend a full-round action to even attempt to be free (either via a hard Strength check or a DC 20 escape artist), which means that either an enemy has to deal with it, or waste actions to be free. Hitting the same enemy with multiple nets in the same round almost ensures the condition will remain for the entire encounter; because no one wants to spend round after round trying to de-net themselves.

Who you gonna call?: A good investment for anyone who really hates incorporeal creatures is a +1 ghost touch net. Valued at 8,000 gp, it's not a terribly expensive tool if the entire party chips in to get it. Why is this tool so great? Well it has full effect on incorporeal creatures, who auto-fail on Strength checks to move away from you (allowing you to control how far they move away from you), and since it counts as both corporeal and incorporeal, you can prevent them from moving through objects while ensnared in your net. Entangled is also a sucky (if rare) condition for incorporeal creatures, as they rely heavily on Dexterity for both offense and defense (-2 to attacks and -4 Dex means -4 to incorporeal touch attacks and -2 AC) and most thrive on improved mobility which is outright denied in this case.

I'll try the 9 Iron: Golf-bagging is often a complaint by some of the casual gamers. Personally, I love golf-bagging. I like having that extra weapon on hand for a particular occasion. Ever look at the Pathfinder iconics? Loaded with seemingly random assortments of weapons, with obvious spares and backups. Golf bagging has lots of advantages.

Grab a cold iron, silver (or mithral), and maybe adamantine weapon. Carrying them allows you to bypass the DR of virtually anything. Definitely have an assortment of silver and cold iron arrows (they're cheap and easy enough to store/carry). It's cheaper to carry lots of +2 weapons of different materials than it is to carry one or two +3 weapons, and it makes you less of a target vs sundering or shattering (because who bothers with that when you've got a backup weapon in easy reach?).

You can go a very long way with just different material weapons and a greater magic weapon spell to keep your hit and damage top notch. It's also easier to rely on special materials for all the low CR enemies who require things like silver or cold iron to hit (such as imps, quasits, lycanthropes, or fey).

It's not magic, it's brains: There's a lot of very mundane methods for dealing with magical effects that suck. One of my favorites is the bag of chalk. A piece of chalk is 1 copper piece. A hundred pieces of chalk is thus 1 gold piece. Crush the chalk up into chalk powder and store it in cloth bags with a tie. Now you have the perfect weapon against invisible people. Have you ever seen the clingy puffy mess that chalk dust makes just when you're dealing with basic chalk erasers in school? Now imagine grinding up 100 pieces of standard issue chalk and scattering it through the air. You'd create a nice 10 ft. cloud of super clinging dust. Better than flour for spotting invisible creatures! Anti-invisible grenades, for 1 gp. Eat that Will o' Whisp.

Clay jugs are pretty heavy when filled, but are pretty useful. Their obvious use is for carrying large quantities of water or similar liquids (ideally packed on burden beasts such as mules, horses, or oxen), but can often be adapted for adventuring purposes. They can just as easily carry coins and the like, or you could place food in them, fill them with black powder to make a bomb (if your campaign has such fare), create weapons or traps with them (fill them with spiders, scorpions, snakes, or whatever), or even keep potted plants in them (carrying around your own plants makes the entangle spell useful in the most amusing places). At only 2 copper pieces, you can figure out what to do with them later. Flasks are 3 coppers with similar uses.

Keeping a few vipers in a state of sedation (via nonlethal damage, sleep spells, or other means) can be a good method of extracting lots of injury poison for the budding assassin, alchemist, or other poison using character. Just milk their glands for poison daily. Finding and keeping vipers isn't usually very difficult for adventurers. In fact, the clay pots can be useful storage devices in this case. If someone has a viper familiar, you could just ask nicely for venom.

His name is Babe: Paul Bunyan had the right idea. Oxen rock as animal cohorts. They're cheap at 15 gp and share statistics with aurochs. They are large quadruped beasts of burden with impressive strength, which means they can carry some truly astounding loads. They are also beefy and dangerous in combat. They have gore attacks for 1d8+9 damage and can even trample. Training them for war is not a bad idea for someone with Handle Animal. Have the party ride around on these strong beasts with high Constitution, and just dare something to try and harass your mounts while you rest. For a good 1-4 levels, the oxen will be more dangerous than your PCs. You can train 3 of them at a time, and cover them in leather or studded leather barding on the cheap.

Oxen cost 15 gp, have a 40 ft. movement speed, +9 Perception, low-light vision, scent, +7 gore at (1d8+9), trample (2d6+9, DC 17), and the following carrying capacity: 600 lb. light, 1,200 lb. medium, 1,800 lb. heavy, 9,000 lb. push/drag. Horses are so last season.

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I'm going to pause here for a moment. I'm not even finished with equipment, but I need a bit of a break. ^-^"

Snorter wins. Flawless victory.

Just a situation and a question for you GM-types out there:

Let's say a person is the target of some evil plot and is framed for a murder. You're a paladin, and you know absolutely that the person in question is innocent, but the evidence is so stacked against them that your testimony is not enough to save them from an execution sentence. You also know that the court in question is a fair one and is not corrupt itself.
In this type of scenario, the paladin faces a tough choice: Either save the innocent and go against legitimate authority, or allow an innocent to die for a crime they did not commit.

What, in most people's opinions, is the correct path to follow here, and in other situations where doing the right thing is also doing the wrong thing? How would you not break your code either way? (Before you say anything, I absolutely know GMs who would allow such a scenario!)

Firstly, I'd remove the emotive and loaded language from the above situation.

You say the paladin knows the accused is innocent.
How?
Is this backed up by solid evidence, that would stand up to unbiased, objective scrutiny and cross-examination?
If so, it should be presented to the court.
If not, then the paladin doesn't actually know the accused is innocent at all, he just has 'a feeling'.
You don't disrupt court proceedings over hunches, feelings, or twinges of pity.
No dilemma exists here. Let the court officials get on with their jobs.

Assuming the accused has a cast-iron alibi, is otherwise incapable of committing the crime, and/or compelling evidence exists that another person was responsible;

Has that evidence been put before the court?
If not, why not?
Is their defence counsel incompetent? Corrupt? Are they being intimidated?
These are grounds for requesting the removal of existing counsel, and ofering to represent the accused yourself. Show the court any evidence of corruption or tampering. The latter will predispose the judge to look less favourably on the prosecution.
No dilemma here. Let the evidence show the truth of the matter. The accused goes free.

Assuming the incontrovertible proof of innocence exists, and has been put to the court;

You say the evidence is 'stacked', yet in the next sentence, you say the court is fair and incorruptible.
This does not compute.
A court that has been handed such evidence, yet still goes ahead with the case, and/or discards the evidence of one side as inadmissable, is not a 'fair and incorruptible' institution. A paladin is in no way beholden to a corrupt institution, nor to the corrupted judgments they pass.
No dilemma here. You stop the proceedings, take the accused into your care, until you can ensure a fair trial.

Assuming the stacked evidence has been sprung by surprise on the 'fair and incorruptible' court;
Again, this does not compute.
Despite what years of Perry Mason reruns tell us, you cannot simply barge into an ongoing trial, yelling wild, untested claims.
If the prosecution are being allowed to do this, and the defence is not allowed to counter with equaly lurid counter-accusations, nor are they allowed to examine the new evidence, then you do not have a fair and incorruptible court. You have a court that intends to treat the accused as 'guilty till proven guilty'.
No dilemma exists. You stop the proceedings, take the accused into your care, until the new evidence for the prosecution can be investigated, and/or a new trial arranged in an unbiased court.

Assuming the court refuse to allow time to gather evidence for the defence, because they 'have to get this case over with quickly', then they are also not a valid court of law, but a kangaroo court, run by a bloodthirsty lynch mob.
A paladin is in no way beholden to follow mob rule or vigilantism.
The truth is more important than convenience.
The objective of any legitimate court (that would be recognised by a paladin) is to arrive at the correct verdict, even if doing so requires the case to be put on hold for a few extra days to allow for the gathering of evidence.
No dilemma here. You stop the proceedings, take the accused into your care, until the evidence for the prosecution can be examined, evidence for the defence gathered, and/or a new trial arranged in an unbiased court.

In short, there should never be a situation in which a paladin finds themselves at odds with a fair, impartial court, since such a body would share the paladin's aims of getting to the truth of the matter at all costs.

If you are able to give further information about the situation as it occurred in-game, and show that it avoids all the above, then please do so.

I would contend that, however the situation appears at first glance, there will not be any dilemma. Any practice a court may have, that would hinder the pursuit of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, would invalidate that court as a recognised legal authority by a paladin.
And any attempt by a GM to declare this a lose-lose situation would be false.

If you are running an adventure path then it makes sense to ditch awarding XP altogether and just level the party at appropriate points. A sandbox campaign is different - individual XP seems correct for that.

Most people will say he should be given half XP, as his character was involved and at risk.

Some will say that he should get none, as he was not there.

Others, like me, do not award character XP based on player attendance. Usually, we do not award XP at all, and just level the party as we see fit.

"I'm just roleplaying my character"

What a pathetic excuse. We've probably all run into this scumbag, who thinks that he can steal from the party and call it "good roleplaying".

If I make an assassin who kills party members in their sleep, is that "good roleplaying"?

They've chosen a concept that is destructive to the party cohesion, and that is a douche move. Period.

The player needs to be told that when the party eventually discovers his trickery, he'll be stripped of all items, and then expelled from the party (if they don't kill him), so he better have a backup character waiting that has a better concept to take over, since this one is doomed.

is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

I would give characters with high perception a chance to note that the rogue is gaining items that aren't accounted for. I would also change his alignment to evil if the behavior continued.

Out of character I would allow this concept just as quickly as I would allow any other concept which invites party conflict. It does not work well within the game.

I don't think you guys are giving him enough credit. It takes a very brave individual to steal from a group of people that just killed all the possible witnesses.

A rogue secretly taking more than his share is akin to a gang member holding back his earnings from his superiors.

In other words, an idiot.

If you could vote for King\Queen of the realm among all the classes after the campaign is over and you've reached the highest level you wanted to play to, say lvl 15-20, which character class would you think would do the best job and why? Best as in not blow up the world, and generally make the place prosper.

Lets say all classes have leadership, and are optimized for their respective rolls as adventurers.

Each class has its place, so you can include what\where and over whom your voted class would end up ruling.

Side note: Are some alignments simply better suited for rule than others on a large scale? Include the alignment of your voted leader.

Lots of different philosophies on this and I just wanted to see some opinions.

Wizard. Wizards are arguably the best rulers you can get. Springs from their Intelligence and capabilities. By 15th-18th level a wizard will have a truckload of knowledge skills, and if only by virtue of Intelligence modifier alone would be capable of devising solid plans for a kingdom based on mathematical and philosophical theory (for the purposes of laws and policies, for example).

As a wizard, you can govern things closely. Simulacrum can create 7th-10th level copies of yourself that you can spread out to work on certain tasks as needed. Assign one to managing community development, another for cultural development and education, another for managing taxes and treasury, another to law enforcement, another to oversee your military (possibly one for each branch), and several of them to deal with national security and shady business such as spying. Each is unquestioningly loyal, and willing to die for your cause in a fanatical way.

For security, wizards are unmatched. Besides the ability to make some very impressive magic traps to defend your base of operations, you also have access to spells like private sanctum, which prevents any sort of magical spying; which is ideal for avoiding both assassination attempts and for planning for things like war.

In terms of governing a people, a wizard has the potential to rule with both an iron fist and with great fairness. Wizards can directly address the needs of a kingdom, and are capable of solving many natural problems that plague kingdoms; such as famine or drought. They are powerful enough that they can force the populace to do what is best for the good of everyone if needed, but smart enough to win the people over with results and perks.

What we really need is epic level rules, stats for gods, and an AP that starts at level 20.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you wholeheartedly. We don't NEED those things, and if you ask me, those kinds of things would do more harm than good. Why, you ask?

Most people don't know how to use high-level content correctly. Most DMs don't know how to deal with players who have almost everything in the game at their disposal, and most players have misconceptions or just misunderstand what it means to be a high-level character.

Stats for gods? In my opinion, such a thing is a terrible concept. Sure, it's nice to look at them and say, "Ooh, that's really cool", but such a thing should in no way be the norm, and such a thing shouldn't be player knowledge. If a deity's stats are going to come into play, it should be something specific to the campaign, made up by the DM of the campaign in question. The moment a deity's stats are printed, people all over the world start statting up characters specifically designed to kill that specific deity, and then the entire mystery or intrigue of that deity is gone.

I'm not saying there aren't campaigns where it can work, but in the campaigns where it can work, you're better off making something specifically tailored to that campaign. So far, Paizo hasn't come out with anything epic, and I applaud them for that. I'm sure some day they'll give in to the pressure and the dollar signs that will come from it, but in no way do we NEED epic level rules or stats for deities. If you want them, make them up yourself.

Oh, and to rat out my dear youngest daughter, this one is a bad paladin story . . .

Upon seeing a bright naga taking down her brother's and sister's character, as well as their pet dog, her paladin immediately says, "I'm going to run . . . I don't want to die."

"Are you going to try to take them with?"

"Not if they slow me down."

;)

Pathfinder, as with D&D before it, is a labor of love and it's sad to see it D&D in the hands of people who don't really love it.

It's probably best not to make a habit of passing judgment on how much a group of obviously passionate people love the thing that they're passionate about. If you think the guys working on D&D don't love D&D, you're about as mistaken as humanly possible.

Introduction: After some conversation on another thread, I realized a lot of people have some misconceptions about what it means to optimize a character.

More concerning is that a number of players seem to think that you're supposed to "play the numbers" instead of "play the character" if you're to be a good roleplayer. I openly declare that I do not adhere to this concept, and I don't advise it to anyone else, because it is at its core exceptionally meta-gamey ("Dude, why would the princess talk to you, you have like an 8 charisma") and likewise offers very few options for how you play or tell a story about your characters ("So how do I have to act if I have a 11 Charisma?"). To me, this is the antithesis of roleplaying, more-so than "I kick in the door, roll to attack" because it's metagaming that tries to call itself role-playing.

Instead, I adhere to the idea that the system is designed to fit your roleplaying, not so your roleplaying must fit the system. With 3.x right up to Pathfinder, our game has slowly been evolving to a more robust and rich system which can give us an almost unlimited variety of options and ways to describe our characters in vivid detail through the games mechanics. Where a character who grew up living off the land can do so, while still being capable in the action portions of the game. This is a wonderful, wonderful thing for roleplayers. With Pathfinder, the options are even more broad thanks to the revised skill system, allowing us to make richer - more detailed - characters without handicapping them in other areas.

Practical Optimization
The goal of practical optimization is to make sure that your character is solid in game terms, functions well in-game, and is built for survival and success. If you want to make a summoner and thus take Augment Summoning then you have optimized a portion of your character to better be represented in game terms. In this case, we wanted him to be a great summoner and we took a mechanical option to do that.

Some mistake optimization for the idea that you must optimize only your combat statistics, as though combat was the only portion of the game. Likewise, some seem to think that to optimize for combat, often just for damage out put. This is often a bad idea, since "glass cannons" tend to die or be rendered obsolete quickly. Likewise, it might be alright to optimize just your combat statistics if that's what you desire and can rely on your friends for other activities, but it can leave you with little to do during much of the game (and you could be using your skills to aid the other players as well).

Optimization implies that we want to get what we can from the mechanics in the most efficient way possible. Mechanics aren't roleplaying, they're just one of the tools we use to enjoy the game and describe our characters and stories in the game world. So, optimization doesn't always mean "I need an 18" but it does mean being efficient.

Why Optimize?
D&D and Pathfinder games by their very theme are supposed to be dangerous adventures full of challenges. Adventuring is a dangerous job and those who lack the grit and will to do it often end up as the story of the adventurers who never returned. Likewise, D&D is a team game, and ultimately we don't want to be a drag on our team; we want to help, not hinder. If you're a resource sink, constantly getting dropped/dominated/invalidated, or have to rely on your friends to do the job you were meaning to do, then it usually doesn't feel very nice for the would-be hero and his companions.

By optimizing a character's mechanics, you can improve the likelihood of them lasting through the campaign, and be more useful to your teammates. Good optimizers can often take odd character concepts (such bard who fights with a greatsword) and make it work without hindering you in the game-play portion. In short, optimizers make the system work for their idea of how they want to roleplay.

An Example of Practical Optimization
For our example of practical optimization, we're going to use Mr. Sigfried. Sigfried has made an appearance in two threads now, and has gotten some very positive feedback. Sigfried is a fighter who's going to be a dashing handsome sort of hero who can woo the fair maiden, talk his way out of trouble, and tell when someone's pulling his leg. Sigfried also has to protect his other three friends (the wizard, the rogue, and the cleric) so he's gotta be a tough hombre who can hold his own in a fight and not keel over in a stiff wind.

The hypothetical GM has issued our party 15 point buy to generate the bare-bones of our characters. Now, we know that for Sigfried to have success, he doesn't need to be a one-trick pony. A character that's amazing 10% of the time, but poor 90% of the time, is not built for success. No, he's built for success in his chosen environment.

We purchase with our points a 14 Strength, 14 Dexterity, 14 Constitution, a 12 Intelligence, a 12 Wisdom, and a 7 charisma. Since Sigfried is human, we toss the +2 into Intelligence, 'cause we want to have some skill points to flesh out Sigfried, and it comes with the added bonus of allowing us to pickup a few combat feats like Combat Expertise or Improved Disarm (if desired).

Sigfried is a good 15 pb fighter.

• His 14 strength can eventually reach 30 (+5 from levels, +6 from items, +5 inherent) which will keep his offensive options strong and it's high enough to squeeze an extra +1 damage when wielding a 2 handed weapon, and high enough to carry a solid amount of equipment.
  
• His 14 dexterity will keep his ranged offensive options open, and will provide a nice +2 bonus on his reflex saves. Finally, it'll add an extra +2 armor class for Sigfried and allow him to wear a lighter armor, allowing him to carry more equipment with his strength, and finally it's a fairly decent initiative modifier.
  
• His 14 constitution grants him an extra 2 hit points per level, and it further buffs his already naturally good fortitude saves. He'll need this on the front-lines.
  
• His 14 intelligence broadens his feat opportunities, and gives him more skill points to round out his persona with. The extra skill points can be used to make him a great athlete, learn new languages, and all kinds of things.
  
• His 12 wisdom provides a much desired +1 bonus to his Will saves which are hurting as a fighter. It also gives him a mild bonus to several useful skills, including Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival.
  
• His 7 charisma is his primary weakness. Charisma doesn't do much for Sigfried. The only thing it does for him is provide a small bonus to a few social skills, and perhaps a bit of extra padding against certain poisons and spells. Sigfried's charisma is a bit low because we just don't need it as much as we need the other scores and we're working on a budget (we don't start out amazing at everything).
  

Since Sigfried is our character, we decided he's spent a lot of time in combat training but all that didn't give him much time to socialize, and so he doesn't know how to relate well to others, and can be a bit blunt. By 2nd level, he'll have kicked those bad habits.

So let's see Sigfried from level 1-5. He's been optimized and a little equipment included (very basic stuff), and he's been using his extra skill points to represent what he's learning as he explores the world.

We can see that Sigfried is a competent fighter while also succeeding at our goal of making him a dashing hero who can be a capable leader, a good talker, and generally a very deep and rounded character.

*: The most important thing is Sigfried does in-game what we wanted him to do out of game. We have made the system fit Sigfried. Success!

For my next post, I would like a volunteer. Post a character you think would be fun (stats aren't needed) and let's try to represent that character in the game mechanics.

*Yawn* Your stuffing is not infernal enough to be awesome!

When I make stuffing it is so awesome I use chorizo and and other spices it can get pretty hot.

He still has to be able to see to use it, and killing people just because they ping on the radar would be frowned upon in most games. Paladins do not have a license to kill. They can go to jail or worse just like everyone else.

And the poll is now fixed. Thanks to Ross, who has greater knowledge of our cutlery drawers.

I turned it off and back on again!

Where do gold dragons keep their hoards?

Invested in local good and lawful human and demihuman communities, earning a tidy return, and helping foster and sustain the dragons ethical and moral agenda.

If you're so awesome, why haven't you posted here?

Expert, Adept, Aristocrat, Warrior.

Honorable mention: Commoner.

I'm not sure you're taking this entirely seriously....

What is love
Oh baby, don't hurt me
Don't hurt me no more

Errr...wrong thread.

Selling it, or giving it to charity. Putting it toward a school drive for students without access to computers would have been a fitting way to relieve her of it.

JJ just mentioned that they do not age, at least in Golarion.

I think this falls under the "we can't make rules for everything, use common sense" reason.

Removed a post. Let's try to be fair to all genders plz.

Legendary infernal teddy bear warlock! I shall name him... Chubbs... mmm... McGee!

While I don't necessarily think that will be allowed as a player character, "The Legendary Infernal Warlock Chubbs McGee" could make an awesome villain for a tongue-in-cheek holiday adventure module. Maybe Halloween?

I still fail to see why the US government feels it needs to interject itself into any religious ceremony.

... or why a religious ceremony or the equivalent is required to apply for partnership benefits. Divorce them (pun intended) completely, is what I'd advocate. You have a nice church wedding? Good, you're married, but that's not a legal partnership, and you don't get the legal benefits. You signed the partnership papers? Good, you have all the legal benefits, but you're not "married" in the religious sense. Most couples would end up doing both.

Yay freedom!, BUT:

Down with marriage!

Up with hawt promiscuous sex!

Goblins do it in the street!

It's "broken" to me because it's not fun for me to play at that level.

This is the only definition of 'broken' I really heed.

Congratulations! The kid already has a good start with two great parents.

Look—Sebastian is being nice! The world sure has changed since the Teter Tot was born...

The Guide is a work in progress, and it's based upon some advice that I've taken to heart in playing Paladins, but it's my crack at a guide. Any constructive commentary is welcome. You can find the guide located here, and you are free to comment on the comment stream on Google Documents as well.

Thank you for your time.

I put all that in a spoiler because I wanted to keep this thread about the Elven Curve Blade. I could argue Google all day, but the tinfoil hat comment makes it pretty clear you don't want to take it seriously,

I am unable to take it seriously because it's so nonsensical. Mustn't use google's search engine lest they peep through my windows?

Well as bad as some perceive Google to be? They were the only ones who told the Chinese Gov't go jump when they asked for the personal details of those on Pro-Democratic mailing lists and Gmail accounts. Yahoo, on the other hand, just handed it over. I give them kudo's for this.

My daughter (8) has scored in the post-high school range for advanced reading. She is ranked above the 99th percentile nationwide for her grade. She has devoured just about every decent book I know of that is still within her maturity level and I am looking for ideas on books to buy her that will help her learn more subjects, enjoy the works and grow with her reading skills.
Unfortunately, while I am fairly intelligent, I feel under-equipped and am asking for assistance.
I was thinking some books on some of the more hands-on sciences like marine-biology or archeology but I don't have a clue what would do good.
If you please, post a book that you enjoyed reading and a quick reasoning for why. Keep in mind that this is for an 8 year old girl.
She has read all the Harry Potters, all the Narnias, many books on american historic figures, and a good amount of fantasy faire so far. I am going to unleash her on Tolkien shortly.
Thanks.

"I'm going to break the game."

"Congratultions, you've done it. I wish you luck in finding a new group."

Rocks fall....

H'okay, Azlant. As far as the defunct civilizations of Golarion go, we've probably been given the most information, but it's scattered around various sources, and in nowhere are we given a clear picture what life was like or a clear extent of the empire.
So on that note, this is my attempt to congeal useful and interesting factoids on Azlant and the Azlanti, and provide sources, since the PathfinderWiki is more than a bit outdated and incomplete on the matter. From this, I hope to be able to make non-canonical but logical extensions, hypotheses, and perhaps even a supposition or two. Spoilers, to about the level of actually reading the campaign setting books, exist below, along with more specific spoilers for the Serpent’s Skull adventure path.

The Azlanti People
—Physically tended towards dark, slightly receded hair (red, brown, black), olive to pale skin, and odd eye colors, including violet. (HG, ISWG, PCCS)
—Favored colors in clothing included crimson and deep green. (ISWG, PCCS)
—Names often started with vowels, and did not use surnames. (ISWG, PCCS)
—Once the majority human ethnicity by population. (ISWG, PCCS)
—Thassilonians, their civilization an offshoot of Azlant, were ethnically Azlanti (James Jacobs)
—Those Azlanti fleeing the Earthfall intermarried with local human tribes in Avistan, forming the Chelaxian and Taldan ethnicities. They also fled to the southern coast of Avistan and the northern coast of Garund. (HG)
—No pure High Azlanti remain; some Chelaxians and Taldans with seemingly-Azlanti physical features sometimes take up the known trappings of the Azlanti and call themselves such. (HG, ISWG, PCCS)
—Aroden, due to his agelessness brought on by deific ascension, was considered “The Last (pureblooded) Azlanti” (HG, ISWG, PCCS)
—Other Azlanti-descended peoples include the aquatic Gillmen (a.k.a. “The Low Azlanti”), and the dark folk, mongrelmen, and morlocks descended from those who fled into the Darklands. Skum were originally created from Azlanti humans. (ID, ISWG, PCCS)

Azlanti Culture/Relations
—Kept slaves. (ISWG, PCCS)
—Looked down on nonhumans. (PCCS)
—Warred with the elves. (PCCS)
—Fought with the Serpentfolk, exterminating them from the surface of Golarion, and driving them back to Sekamina. (ID, ISWG, SSA)
—The Azlanti hero Savith personally slew the avatar of the serpentfolk deity of Ydersius in the Darklands city of Ilmurea, but died in the attempt. The city of Saventh-Yhi was founded in her honor above the site of Ilmurea to guard against further Serpentfolk incursions. (ID, SSA)
—Taught/mentored by the aboleth, who eventually became prideful; the aboleth responded pre-emptively by performing a Colony Drop on Golarion, thus creating Eathfall. (HG, ISWG, PCCS)
—High Azlanti mages were haughty, and generally avoided getting their hands dirty/directly touching things if possible. (CP09, FSS)

Azlanti Architecture
—Includes cupolas, interlaced designs (ISWG)
—Includes marble columns, and the Pleasure Salon of Calistria in the columned style of classic Azlanti temples. (GA)
—Favored circular and square layouts, often nested or inscribed within one another. (CP09, FSS)
—Azlanti architecture on Garund incorporated stepped stones ziggurats. (SSAP)
—Included self-opening doors in some sites. (CP09, FSS)
—Inspired much of the architecture in Absalom and Andoran; the former’s Azlanti Era of architecture was largely designed by Aroden himself. (GA, ISWG, PCCS).
—The architecture of Ilvarandin, while a hodge-podge, contains some Azlanti elements. (ID)

The Azlanti Language
—Some to much of the actual language has been lost, though there’s enough for scholars to translate from, and it remains something of a liturgical language. (ISWG, PCCS)
—High Chelaxian Opera features librettos in Azlanti. (PCCS)
—The Mordant Spire elves are probably the last society to fluently speak Azlanti. (ISWG, PCCS)
—One of the most-spoken languages of its day, and influenced such languages as Hallit, Polyglot, Taldane (Common), and Varisian. (ISWG, PCCS)
—Absalom’s motto “Ex Prothex” (“From the First”) is Azlanti. (GA)
— Saventh-Yhi = “Savith’s Grave” (SSA)

Azlanti Magic/Studies/Technology
—Ioun stones were originally Azlanti, though the Thassilonians and the Pathfinder Society would later study and advance them. (CP09, SS)
—The Azlanti were obsessed with orbits (including those of celestial bodies), and not only made orreries and models of the Dark Tapestry, but entire floating buildings revolving around a central point. (CP09, FSS)
—Certain High Azlanti forewent traditional books for auto-levitating copper-leafed codices. (CP09, FSS)
—Some Azlanti magic items were in the form of metallic plates that when activated, would disassemble themselves and reposition themselves on or floating around a person, as if an article of jewelry or clothing. (FSS)
—Most Azlanti sites bear auras of extensive preservative magics, often reducing 10,000+ years of wear down to the equivalent of a few thousand. (ISWG, SSAP)
—The Azlanti possessed advanced knowledge of optics and lenses. (CP09, FSS, ISWG, LCG)
—Under the aboleths, the Azlanti developed “unparalleled art, philosophy, and science” in addition to magic. (ISWG)
—Entrapped/imprisoned/cultivated will-o’-wisps for lighting “like tulips” in glass cylinders. (CP09, FSS, LCG)

Known Azlanti Sites/Ruins
—Most Azlanti colonies were on the borders of the Inner Sea, and generally fall into three categories: the literal foundations for modern cities, ruined/little historical significance, or undiscovered and presumably valuable. (PCCS)
—What’s left of the continent of Azlant is a continent-sized archipelago of hazardous tors, mountains, reefs, and towers, jutting up from the Arcadian Ocean, and patrolled by the Mordant Spire Elves. (ISWG, PCCS).
—Escadar on the Isle of Kortos was built on an older Azlanti site, and houses an embassy for the gillmen. (GA)
—The Sightless Sea, the largest Orvian vault of the Darklands and one of the largest holds of the aboleth, is more or less directly underneath the continent of Azlant. (ID)
—Saventh-Yhi (“Savith’s Grave”) was an inland colony in the Mwangi on Garund, above the site of the serpentfolk city of Ilmurea, and survived Earthfall. (SSA)
—The Sun Temple Colony was a semi-recent attempt by Andoran to establish a colony on the ruined continent of Azlant itself. It Got Worse™. (ISWG, LCG, PCCS)

Azlanti Religion
—The Azlanti often had seemingly bizarre interpretations of the gods, by modern standards. (CP09, SSAP)
—Abadar was seen as a god of cities and wealth moreso than a deity of law. (SSAP)
—Acavna was a goddess of battle and the moon, who vanished/died shortly before Earthfall. (SSAP)
—Achaekek was seen as a god of monsters and natural disasters than as a god of assassinations. (SSAP)
—Amaznen was a pre-Nethys(?) god of magic, whose worship (and name!) was forbidden in Thassilon; he perished during Earthfall. (SSAP)
—Curchanus, a deity of travel, beasts, and endurance and mentor to Desna, survived Earthfall to be slain by Lamashtu. (GM, SSAP)
—Desna was seen primarily as a goddess of the stars/astronomy. (SSAP)
—Groetus was a late addition to the pantheon, added close to Earthfall. (SSAP)
—The demon lord Nurgal was considered the “vengeful aspect” of the sun, and placated. (LCG, SSAP)
—Pharasma was seen as a patron of prophecy moreso than as judge of the dead. (SSAP)
—Shelyn was seen as the muse and patron of the arts, and not of beauty. (SSAP)
—The demon lord Zura was originally an Azlanti queen whose thirst for immortality led to her dark ascension. Cults of Zura were infiltrating Azlant at the time of Earthfall, and might have undermined the civilization had Earthfall not happened. (LC, SSAP)

Sources
CP09: Chronicles: Pathfinder podcast #9, with Brandon Hodge
FSS: From Shore to Sea
GA: Guide to Absalom
GM: Gods and Magic
HG: Humans of Golarion
ID: Into the Darklands
ISWG: Inner Sea World Guide
James Jacobs: The word of the Creative Dinosaur himself, i.e. from a Paizo website or forum post.
LC: Book of the Damned vol. 2: Lords of Chaos
LCG: Lost Cities of Golarion
PCCS: Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting
SSAP: Serpent’s Skull Adventure Path
SS: Seekers of Secrets

The problem with making new players a "better" first character, is that they may not know the rules to make their optimized character work in practice. The pregens have basic feats, abilities, etc that won't overwhelm the new player. Sure, you can make a better rogue than Merisiei, but that's because you know all the rules. Newbies won't.

What accent? Do they speak in short, clipped sentences with a broad accent? Do they axe people questions?

I think I'm with the people saying "don't penalize the two players who apparently know what they're doing, just because the other three are less than competent."

I noticed a point made, that lets me know the one playing the ranger is a lost cause-- insists on creating/playing his concept exactly as he conceives it to be, whether it fits or not, whether it's effective or not-- then cries because he's built a lousy character (mind you, I'm all in favor of creating a good personality/background/etc for your character and playing it-- but there is nothing wrong with making your character effective too). If he's going to keep building characters like that, tell him to shut up and stop whining about something that's his own fault-- if he doesn't like it, 4 players and a GM is a good gaming group-- you don't need him (may sound harsh, but it's better than letting a bad player that you've had to keep kicking out of other games figuratively poison yet another campaign).

I noticed another point, wherein the other two players who are crying, are all too happy to step all over everyone else at the table if/when they have more potent characters who are outshining the others. Makes me lose any sympathy I might have had for them now that they are in the situation they appear to have been so gleeful at inflicting on others.

All of them need an attitude adjustment evidently-- but when the GM admits he doesn't see anything that the two good players are doing wrong or that he wouldn't do himself otherwise, it's the complaining of the other three that really appears to be the problem-- it really seems to me like it's the attitude of the three whiners that needs to be fixed first. Then, let the two players who might actually take advantage of the opportunity rebuild their characters from the ground up to be more effective (help them with that, or have the two good players help them, since they apparently need it). And then let them know that it's up to them to play their characters well, rather than asking that the other two people at the table be penalized for knowing what they're doing.

The one thing I'd think I would ask of the two leading players in the game, is to stand back and let the others take the lead some of the time... if the others start failing, they can always jump in and save them from themselves.

Simple answer: too many "sacred cow" spells to deal with.

Real answer: the problems stand between the chairs and the character sheets, not in the rules. Deal with them. With fire, pointy things and a maniacal laughter.

Why I love Mookluck's wife...

Kidding! Just kidding.

This bears repeating: Alignment restrictions and the paladin’s Code of Conduct are not ‘fluff’. They are rules, and are enforceable (or ignorable if you choose) just like any other rule. They perhaps rely more on roleplaying and GM moderation than many other rules, but there is still a mechanic to them.

Fluff would be text such as, ‘paladins are polite and usually wear blue tunics’.

How can you make the Paladin work in your group?

Roleplaying.

I have DMed for, played alongside of, and played as several paladins. The good ones (and I hope I was one of those) did not see their Code of Conduct as restrictions; they saw it as how their lives should be lived.

You gave another excellent example of what a Paladin should be. I also agree with your opening statement here: If you're gonna play a Paladin, it has to be with the idea that your Code of Conduct is simply restating how you should be living your life, not an onerous burden on your adventuring career.

A Paladin who takes the code of conduct as a set of restrictions, rather than as a blueprint towards a better life, probably isn't gonna be a Paladin for long.

I have DMed for, played alongside of, and played as several paladins. The good ones (and I hope I was one of those) did not see their Code of Conduct as restrictions; they saw it as how their lives should be lived.

For example, I once played an 8th level (2nd edition) Paladin named Sir Reynard d'Montaigne. A friend of mine played my identical twin brother, a Chaotic Good ranger, Jean-Paul. Our DM laughed when we said we wanted to play twins--with the same array of stats. And he agreed that we could.

Sir Reynard was not an in your face, you better repent because I detected evil kind of paladin. He did not do Good because his Code required him to. He did good because he was GOOD. He spent his time off assisting the local friars at the church, making certain that no one in the community was going hungry, checking in on invalids. He didn't berate someone for doing something against his code. Because people are not perfect; people make mistakes. And not everyone is cut out to be a paladin.

He did not kill out of vengeance, but when the sword was the only answer, he would draw his weapon. He would accept surrenders, and do his best to see that justice was carried out. But he didn't put himself as judge, jury, and executioner. Not to say that any evil villan with a sob story could pull the wool over Reynard's eyes: he wasn't a fool.

But he would investigate claims of extenuating circumstances, he would get the clergy to question the prisioners under truth spells, he went the extra mile to ensure that his good acts were not preverted for evil means. His brother took a different path--and that was all right. Not everyone in the world is prepared to walk the road a paladin must.

He made the party mad as all Hells a time or two, especially when he would not let them slaughter orc children in a nursery. But, in the end, they knew they could trust him and they did. We were a party, and it was all good--even when they (or ME) screwed up.

I guess, the best advice I can give for someone playing a paladin is much the same advice I would give to someone playing an evil character in a good party: don't be a dick about it.

Simple, to the point, and covers just about all of it.

Master Arminas

I find it odd that people are directly advocating going against the intention.

If you knew how violently I went 'against the intention' with the Time of Troubles, and, later, the Spellplague, in the Realms setting, your head might explode. :)

I am HIGHLY IN FAVOR of people asking questions about monstrous evolution and ecology. That's one of my favorite parts of any fantasy world!