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Cheapy's page

Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 2013 Marathon Voter. Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 16,909 posts (17,209 including aliases). 21 reviews. 5 lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 12 aliases.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Oh, and I meant that I am not in favor of this.

Since I don't think my post was clear on that front.

Just like the SLA rules.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Caused too many questions to arise and unbalanced things that were made under the ruling they weren't spells.

When there are guides on which race to pick to get which spell of which casting tradition and which spell level, just so you can make a build using something that was never the original intention, things have gone way, way too far.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Johnny_Devo wrote:
I'm a little lost here. What are you actually analyzing against, and why? What's valuable about BaB on a full spellcasting progression class?

Yea, I think this post is missing something pretty key. Like the goal, or what it's talking about. I'm confused.


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Congratulations!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The quite fast traps definitely solves the issue with trapping characters, but it seems that it also loses a lot of what makes trapping, well, trapping, replacing it with arcane landmines.

Still, it looks like a good start, and is definitely interesting.


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I'm not so sure that "follow my orders" is entirely reasonable. Why would you give any other task if that was reasonable? It encompasses everything, and it can include many tasks.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DarthPinkHippo wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
DarthPinkHippo wrote:
What games do you play on your 3DS? Also have you bought any indie games from the eShop?
Let's see...I'm recalling Bravely Default, Monster Hunter 4, Persona Q, Rune Factory 4, Link Between Worlds, Shin Megami Tensei 4, Kid Icarus Uprising (which we actually got for free from Club Nintendo). Linda has downloaded some old Nintendo games with the eShop, and we've gotten a few for free as well.
I would definitely recommend picking up Steam Word Dig from the eShop if you haven't played it on another platform already. Played the entire thing in one fantastic 8 hour sitting.

Oh yea, that one is a fun game.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That actually sounds much better off than I expected, and I think that bodes quite well.

I'll make sure to keep an eye on this one.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It doesn't modify the rolled value, and the rolled value is the thing that determines if there was a critical threat, not the total bonus.

For example, say you have a +3 attack bonus, and a weapon that critically threatens on an 18-20. If you rolled a 14, added your +3 attack bonus, for a result of 17, if you added inspiration, you still would've only rolled a 14, which is not a critical threat, even though you had a minimum check result of 18.

Does that make sense? It's kind of a run-on sentence.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Seems like the immunities are doing their job fairly well :p

In our groups, we usually see minor forms of this, with wasted actions now and then. But we generally prefer more interesting combats than facerolls, which tend to happen when all those wasted actions happen.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This does sound pretty interesting, but also that it may be a bit much for one person. How much is done already? How long did Path of Shadows take from start to finish?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They used to be able to, for about two years, but are no longer able to.

What happened was that spell-like abilities, which are what Minor Magic grant, were counted as Spells for prerequisites. This decision was later reversed since it caused a bunch of unintended consequences.

So, long story short, no, not in PFS. Ask your GM for a homegame though, as it's a pretty cool idea.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

4th edition had one such table, and it was one of the most hated things about the edition, as the characters never actually got better.

If you really want to go ahead with that, just make an excel chart that sets chance to succeed at 50%, and make an average build against that, putting every rank of a skill into that, etc.

You'll have to do that for ability checks too, because ability checks are already screwed up and scale much slower.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"Doesn't need to be playtested," is the common refrain from those who armchair analyze, "it's obvious how this will work, given X, Y, and Z."

But the thing is that if you want your opinions to be considered more, you should still playtest. And playtest fairly! Because armchair analysis is prone to missing details and people on the forums almost invariably want things stronger during the playtests, so it's hard to separate actual good ideas from the usual "buff buff buff buff buff", and playtesting reports helps with that greatly.

I'm quite glad to see that others are planning on more playtests. Since high level playtests are rare, I will probably aim my own tests there.


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And even though Mark totally pulled out my favorite example of why armchair theorycrafting is less useful than actual playtest data, I'll at least link the thread here where people are complaining about how useless the APG summoner is.

It is quite eye-opening at just how different armchair theorycrafting is from actual playtest data.


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Have they confirmed a second iteration already? It's true that playtests with a lot of houserules isn't as useful, as that isn't necessarily testing the actual class, but it can still be useful, as long as the house rules aren't huge.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yea, I was thinking after the post how that was actually tried previously.

Guess that's just the nature of online playtests.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I believe that solo-solo-play is somewhat helpful, but it'd be much more helpful if it was in a party, even if the party is controlled entirely by 1 person. I believe Mark has said as such too.

I wonder if a Kickstarter-style "reward" system would work to get more playtests. Instead of money, it'd be playtests, so that every few playtests, maybe a generalist vigilante talent could be posted.


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Are people planning more? Have some been finished, and they just haven't found the time to type it up yet?

There seems to be a lot of discussion, but very little actual data.


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I'm very interested in seeing where this goes, having done a numerical comparison of DPR for an optimized and non-optimized CRB only fighter, as well as many other number crunches.

That said, I think this will in many ways depend on the optimization level of the party. AC is meant to fall behind attack bonuses at a certain point, which means HP is the main deterrent against death that monsters will have. Things like mischances help a bit, of course.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I agree that this is asked frequently. And it's almost always brought up in games where I've seen this spell used.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Saying that the design team doesn't know how to design is going to do an amazing job of getting them to listen to your ideas, good job!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Generally, the reason why there really haven't been as many "reverse power attacks" is because to-hit bonuses are generally harder to come by, and have larger ramifications. At high levels, the fighter has a very good DPR simply because weapon training means his iterative attacks are much more likely to hit. His static damage doesn't go up, but the attacks that for everyone else probably won't hit, will hit for him.

So, you'll probably need to monkey with the damage penalties to attack bonuses balance until something works out, but a good starting point would be -3, and testing out around there.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I get the impression that originally the rule was that you got them in either identity, but it was found that that made it so there was little point in ever changing into the vigilante identity. Due to that, I think playtest data and suggestions pointing to ideas that keep that issue in mind are going to be received the best.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Why am I being asked if a new mass extinction event is underway?

There are scientists whose job it is to figure this out. I'd imagine they'd be more correct than any lay person, especially as they have no reason for bias.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Are you playing in Numeria or in a super-science campaign?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is it causing issues for other members of the party? If so, the answer is probably yes.

That's really the main criteria for if someone is too strong. Forum people outside of your main group can't tell you the answer, just give vague approximations. But your main group is the test for if it's too strong, and if they are complaining it is, that's a pretty decent indication that there is a difference in expectations of what the powerlevel of the game should be.

All that said, you have about 6 points of DPR lower than a CRB only fighter at 9th level, while having vastly more utility.

So there's that.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I noticed a number of combos that would push the abilities well past balanced if you could freely choose between different identities. I don't doubt that there'll be an archetype that gets to choose multiple ones, and I suspect it'll be extremely popular due to mixing the best stalker and avenger talents.

Right now, this separation allows the design team to make certain assumptions about the class paths, ones that will allow them to push certain boundaries without going past them being balanced due to not having to concern themselves with the (already quite powerful) talents of other paths.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmm, a Tengu Stalker Vigilante.

Let's get dangerous.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If they didn't have the extra staggered spells from bloodlines, then it would be an absolutely no-brainer choice for 99% of all sorcerers.

How would you go about trading out a weak ability that you probably won't use past level 2 for an extra set of actions, the most important thing you can get in Pathfinder?


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It's like Monster Hunter with Robots.

Awesome.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Based on Indescribable's review, I'd imagine that given how obvious the choice of those spells were, it must've been a conscious decision to not include healing for this class?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Excellent! Thanks for the answer Adam.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

On the plus side, if you assume the game is written from the perspective of elephants, it makes the "What's the Acrobatics DC to jump a 10 foot pit?" question really simple.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

One thing to keep in mind is that the rules were made with innumerable assumptions of what is common sense. For example, nothing in the rules prevents an elephant from jumping, even though it is impossible for an elephant to jump.


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A link to the setting, for those interested.

Personally, I think that would be fine for magical music, but I'd recommend exploring options for allowing the rest of the bardic abilities to be split off from such an association. The bard has a very interesting chassis, and people may be interested in that without being interested in demonology.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Yiroep wrote:

Question about permanent bonuses for items:

- I have seen people do things like take the Horizon Walker prestige class, qualifying by using a Scarlet and Green Cabochon to get the Endurance feat.

- I've also seen people use a Phylactery of Positive Channeling to qualify for the Channeled Revival feat early.

1. Are these legitimate? They are not ability score bonus items, but a lot of people seem to think that this works since you can wear these items for 24 hours, which is why I have the confusion.

2. If the answer to #1 is "yes," then what happens to a Horizon Walker when he takes off the ioun stone? Does he/she lose the entire class?

To be honest? My players would not be happy if I allowed something like that in my home game (and neither would I). The answer to (2) is listed somewhere; if I recall, you lose almost all features and are left with what a fallen paladin has (BAB, base saves, skill points, and proficiencies). To go back to (1), while otherwise I never would have even imagined that such a thing would count as a prereq, I have a strong memory that Sean posted something on the messageboards at some point that could be used to support that argument, even though I think Sean only referenced the ability scores, which explicitly count as a permanent bonus after 24 hours. As such, it would be tough for me to make the call to disallow it in PFS, even if I might look askance.

You're probably thinking of this post and Sean's next one.


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Claxon wrote:

In regards to #1 it is a design guideline behind the game that they hasn't explicitly written before that was clarified in a 1000+ post thread where the devs directly posted.

Actually, I think it can be pieced together pretty easily, assuming a clean slate understanding. The only problem is that it requires almost 5th Edition Shadowrun level of piecing together disparate rules to get the full picture.

The main difficult part is understanding that "hand" doesn't always mean a literal hand, which is implied in the rules in some places, namely the fact that armor spikes still count as taking up a hand, given their place in the weapon tables.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For falling objects made with the creation sphere, is the ranged touch attack originating from you the spherecaster, or from the location the objects come into being?

Say I wanted to drop a Huge sized meteor on someone that is 30 feet from me, and wanted the double damage from >150 ft. Would the ranged touch attack take penalties from range increments? Assuming I have distant creation a few times.


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Malwing wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

The Strategy Guide has a lot of concepts at the front, with recommendations on how to build them with the core classes.

I'm thinking Spheres of Power could use a document of that sort, just to ease people into the new system.

I'm not so sure. Unless you want to do something rigidly specific it's been pretty intuitive. Or at least intuitive for noobs. More experienced players have about as many questions about it as noobs have for vancian casting, but newer players just kind of pick it up. Or at last that's been my experience.

What I had in mind was less an introduction to the system and more of a gazetteer. There's a lot of new material to cover, and giving something like "If you want to recreate magic missile or create pit, you should use these spheres and talent combinations: x,y, and z."

Something to give to people so they don't have to read every sphere and talent to get an idea of what is possible.


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The Strategy Guide has a lot of concepts at the front, with recommendations on how to build them with the core classes.

I'm thinking Spheres of Power could use a document of that sort, just to ease people into the new system.


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Which sphere covers prestidigitation/limited wish/wish/miracle?


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Yea, I was kind of surprised at how long ago that post was made as well.

Kind of crazy.


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The Eidolon's abilities for those have always worked differently from the Universal Monster Rule they were based off of.

See this post.


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I kept track of a bunch of artificer-style classes here. One of them will probably fit the vision closer, or at the very least, give inspiration on how to do the class abilities.

It's a bit out of date.

Interjection Games has a class or two that may fit your needs.


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There is at least 1 PFS scenario set there, but I believe it's on the borders of Geb. Lost At Bitter End. I don't recall much information in there about the mana wastes, however.


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I suppose I meant "no one ever plays" them in relation to other classes. They are definitely up there as most rarely played classes, if not the King of that list.


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They actually mentioned at PaizoCon that if they had more room in Unchained for another class, it would've been Cavalier.

Because no one ever plays cavalier.


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The unchained one is better designed, and will be allowed at more tables, so it has that going for it.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There are no rules for Gestalt in Pathfinder, so there's really no way to answer this except to say that they are separate where there isn't text saying to the contrary.

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