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Cheapy's page

Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 2013 Marathon Voter. Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 16,758 posts (17,050 including aliases). 21 reviews. 5 lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 12 aliases.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm not a huge fan of the name Igniting as a weapon special ability. Thundering does sort of set the precedence for "On crit, get extra damage" abilities being +1. But the problem with the ability is that it's far more useful against akashic foes, so I don't think that precedence really applies. It makes me wish RGG's fractional enhancement bonuses were a thing in the core rules.

It may be better to have it always do 1d6 fire damage (last I checked, it actually wasn't the most resisted element anymore), and on a crit against akashic foes, it does essence burn and the fire damage is untyped. That may be better for the +2 price, given that you're always going to get some benefit out of it, like the <elemental> burst abilities.

Reverberating is a bit odd too. I like the overall idea of it, but I think it may need to go back to the drawing board, as unlike most other abilities, its value changes with the weapon it is placed on. I'm not so sure that makes it unbalanced per se, but it is a bit weak on the design side of things, at least as far as weapon enhancements go. Is there a way to make it static? On critical hit, 2d6 damage at the beginning of the creature's next turn. +1 enhancement. Just spitballin'.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There are a number of Inquisitor archetypes you'll probably find to fit well with the theme you have going on.

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They can make saves. They are not actions.

If someone is completely bound up and a fireball is dropped on them, they still get the saving throw. Why? Because saves ALWAYS have an element of luck to them, as denoted by the dice roll.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sacrifice a spell slot to channel energy for 1d6 per slot sacrificed? That's a lot of healing, but could be interesting with rider effects on channel. Not sure it's balanced tho.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You could look at the favored soul from 3.5 for other ideas. Maybe tie more abilities into channeling, like 5+mCha uses, and related variant channeling abilities.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

One feature of Pathfinder, most likely by design, is that the "spontaneous" version of a prepared spellcaster gets a lot more abilities than the prepared version does. Take a look at the Sorcerer's blood line feature compared to the wizard's school feature. Or the oracle to the cleric. A spontaneous Druid or Witch (oh, that's a cool idea) would get a lot more features than they do already.

Soooo, get crackin' on the new abilities :)

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm not sure why they don't get very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very limited wish, but I did like how 5e handled it, where every class gets a spell that acts similarly. Like Clerics get Thaumaturgy, and Druids with Druidcraft. I wish they all were less restricted in what you can do.

But as it is, prestidigitation is a spell I take on any character who can take it. Never actually use it too often, but it's great when I need to.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Actually, no, that isn't the definition of unlucky, but it sounded cool in my head.

But really, the whole enchantment school is kind of dumb. It's all "Hey, we have HUGE effects that are tied to a single die roll and are all or nothing", so either the player playing an enchanter is frustrated at how often he fails to stick the spell on his foes (like my sorcerer), or the GM is frustrated at how often the I Win button comes out. And that's not even getting into the whole "Hey guys, I am completely robbing your agency of free will and forcing you to do things for me, but this definitely isn't evil" thing.

God, that whole school needs to be redone.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ignoring the fact that having a 50% chance to fail and rolling low is basically the definition of unlucky, then one should fix the spell.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, who should Dominate Person work against then? I believe one could make an argument for any class to receive the Good progression for any given save type.

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also, if you do want to become a publisher, talk to a lawyer. Then do it again. Then do it a few more times.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sorry, I won't be able to respond to each thing in that post. I will respond to the final question though. But first, a slight tangent.

Saving Throws:

I ran the numbers on Poor will saves, and given just 1 feat and 1 trait, 10 base Wis, as well as standard headband / cloak of resistances at normalish levels, the fighter will be looking at a 50% success rate on the primary DCs a creature should have. This holds true to the NPCs of the NPC Codex. 50% is pretty good, meaning that by investing what-to-the-fighter-is-minimum-resources, the spellcaster has an even chance of failing to do anything to them. (Good progression bumps it up to be about 75% success rate.) This seems to imply that given the assumption of the Big 6 (<shakefist!>), Poor saves were meant to succeed around 33% of the time, so going from 2/3 to 1/2 is pretty decent, especially when the track is labeled "Poor".

The problem from saves, then, comes from GMs building NPCs as PCs, and ignoring the rules for average statistics by CR. When you build a level 15 NPC wizard as a PC would (albeit with the elite array, starting at 17 Int post-racial bonus), they're probably going to have a save DC of 28-29 for your primary school and highest spell levels. If you maximize Int at start, so you have 20, that's going to be 30 as the DC.

When the game assumes, and remember, these assumptions are what the Good / Poor saves tracks are based on, that the DC of a CR 15 NPC's primary abilities is 23, yea, a 7 point split in the excepted DCs and the ones of the optimized caster that's being thrown against the party, there will be problems. Even a CR 17 NPC should have a primary ability DC of around 24, so for a very hard fight for the level 15 party, there's still a 6 point difference in what the DC should be.

Of course there will be problems when GMs are throwing things at the party that so strongly divert from the core assumptions of the game. The same sort of problems would come up if the GM decided to deviate from the rules and give all NPCs an extra set of actions each turn.

So I view the low saves of a class not primarily a problem of the class, but mostly with the GM deviating so strongly from the rules that informed the assumptions. At the very least, the "their saves suck!" argument can be made about every single class that has a poor progression saving throw, and that alone should hint that something else is going on.

I don't have a good solution for the issue with out of combat ability. Personally, I think it makes sense that they aren't all that good out of combat, given their sheer focus in combat. (And what I find amusing is that no one complains about Street Samurais in Shadowrun being useless outside of combat.) But I still think the base 4 skill ranks per level make sense. One thing that came to mind was fixing the problem by using certain types of campaigns.

Say eventually the party gets in charge of an army. Suddenly the fighter's Profession (soldier) ranks mean he's the best at leading the army to go fight the orcs. (Next thought: Maybe they should get their level in ranks to Profession (Soldier). Next next thought: Why would an adventurer who isn't a soldier have ranks in being a soldier.)

The other thought I had was maybe a system where you could trade bonus combat feats in. A number of classes get bonus combat feats, representing combat ability, and this alternative system could present a way to focus your characters on non-combat things, unlike most other characters of the given class. I'm not thinking up anything that actually makes thematic sense, but perhaps others place different emphasis on that.

In the end, I'd probably make changes that would play up the aspects of the fighter identified in the blurb.

Something like adding K(Local) and Perception, bumping the skill ranks to 4, and then adding an ability that gives them a bonus equal to their level on all skill checks related to armor, weapons, and war. And then expand Profession (Soldier) / Profession (Fighter) to allow identification of various things, and then clamp down on giving away metagame info in other ways.

While reading this version above, I had the rough idea of a toughness pool. Probably same point values as the monk's ki pool, just based off of Constitution. My original idea was something along the lines of free action that can be taken out of turn to spend some points to reduce damage from an attack by 1d6 per point spent. Spend 2 points to add 1d6 to a saving throw. 4 to try and shake off a failed save 1 round after you failed it (even if you are mind-controlled, at the end of your turn, can only be done once per effect). Something like that. Haven't put much if any further thought into that though, so shrug. But it does play up the toughness aspect without being too complicated.

And since I'm seeing most of the issues people are saying the fighter has as not a problem with the fighter, so much as the rest of the system (GMs ignoring the guidelines that define how difficult things should be, other classes being too good at combat and out of combat things, etc), I'd probably try to give the fighter something really unique that changes how full-attack actions work. Wouldn't be pounce.

I don't think they need more bonuses to hit or to deal more damage. Probably an ability that makes them more "sticky". If you want to get away from the fighter who is facing you, you're going to have to either roll really well, or he's going to have to decide to leave you alone. Or maybe an ability that makes them count as larger than their real size (increases as you level), so that combat maneuvers don't become impossihard after 13th level. Essentially, this ability would be something to play up the control of the battlefield aspect of the fighter. They can get this already, especially with the various critical hit abilities, but those are fairly late in the game.

Probably also allow them to retrain the past 3 or more likely, starting at 1 and increasing to 3, bonus combat feats they selected, by spending an hour practicing the new ones. Once per day. This would reflect how they've studied combat more so than others. It'd be a bit like the brawler's ability, but with reduced flexibility.

If I was wanting to change the fighter, those abilities are probably where I'd start my quest at, and refine them from there.

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not every GM disallows Leadership. Most GMs I've played with allow it just fine. Paizo needs to write for all variety of games, so having leadership as a bonus feat or just getting a group of people is fine if it fits the theme.

And, well, being a cult master is awesome. But being a cult master without a cult isn't, so.... cult get!

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Clearly, Paizo is mocking fans of the monk and swashbuckler by having a piece of art where the swashbuckler failed her Will save against being dominated, and is now attacking the monk.

It is certainly not just a piece of work, but has insidious undertones born of Paizo's hatred for martials.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, since you asked...

First thing, and this is my standard preamble, remember that while praise is awesome and feels great to see someone appreciate your hard work, constructive criticism is useful and helps you identify issues that'll help you grow. So don't take any of this personal, as none of it is meant to be!

Second, more unique to this, is that I personally do not think the fighter needs much if any fixing. However, if I wanted to have that debate, there have been and will be ample opportunities for me to do so in other threads, rather than muck this one up. And given that it's obvious you do think it's necessary to the point of spending a fair chunk of time coming up with a fix, for the purposes of this critique, I'm going to come from the frame of mind that a fix is necessary, so hopefully it'll help you out the most. This also means that I will not be responding to any responses to my post that I think will turn it into a "do they need a fix?" post, as I recognize that a lot of people disagree with me, and there's only so much I can do to minimize my perspective as I'm only human :)

I'll go ability by ability. Most of them are considered from the perspective of only changing them (so, for example in my section about Good Saving Throws, I assume Spell Defense and Indomitable Will exist).

1) Skills: Knowledge (local) makes sense, as does Perception (to a lesser extent, but still enough to fit. Gotta have that situational awareness!). I do not think Sense Motive makes much sense, and nor does the floating class skill. The fighter is all about being great at fighting, and to give them a floating class skill, something even the most skill-focused classes don't get, just feels weird. I'd recommend just adding K(local) and Perception. The base 4 skill points makes sense: the paladin is too focused on saving orphanages to have base 4 ranks, so with all the comparative free time the fighter has, they should probably have a few more skills. But I am curious if it just means they'll dump Int more.

2) Good progression Will saving throw: Personally, I see this as clashing with some of the most popular tropes of the fighter, which are that they are easily corrupted, or they're the tavern drunk, or they're the guy who only knows how to sword and to be just and lets the thinkers do the thinkin'. Throwing aside my personal beliefs, and looking at it from the perspective I said I'd look at it from, I think this is not entirely warranted, as it boosts the baseline quite a bit, and I find weaker abilities that can be optimized to be better designed, as opposed to a very strong baseline.

3) Man Of The World: OK, so this one is trying to solve the problem of out of combat use for the fighter. I'm not a fan of this solution. There's nothing intrinsic to the fighter, someone who fights well, that means that unlike the ranger who used to be a turnip farmer, or the pampered noble who gains roguish tendencies to overcome the doldrums of noble life, the fighter should get bonuses from a "past life". The fact that a fighter of equal level, with equal investment in ranks, equal ability score mods, and equal equipment could be better at a skill than any of the skilled classes is something I find to be overpowered, stealing the spotlight from the skilled classes in the areas they should be good at. If there is a martial/caster disparity, it's in out of combat abilities, so I think this is on a good thematic path to fix the problem, but I'm not a fan of the solution. Perhaps a system where they can trade bonus combat feats for some other effects would work, to keep the "past life" theme up. Instead of focusing purely on combat, the bonus combat feats could be spent on other abilities. The problem is that most such abilities don't really make sense for why they'd be limited to the fighter and no one else. (Ahh, the curse of Ex abilities.) Maybe an idea will form for me by the end of this post.

4) Spell Defense: I find this to be very overpowered, and can't think of any thematic reason for this. "They're tough!" Which is why they have a good Fortitude save and d10 HD, but doesn't explain why they somehow get a +2 untyped bonus on all saving throws. Compared to many other 2nd level abilities, it's very strong. Based on the math presented in the Statistics by CR table for monster creation (very useful table for balancing abilities, btw), a creature with good saving throws should be successfully making about 70% of spells (64% from levels 1-10, 75% from levels 11-20), with creatures with poor saving throws should be making about 48% of them (44.5% levels 1-10, 51.5% levels 11-20). This change, with the Good Will saving throw, totally free and with no additional effort (traits, feats) puts them at about the same percentages as the above averages. To me, one of the hallmarks of good design is having a baseline that is not too good for free, but allowing optimization to get better.

Since, from my perspective, the ability doesn't make much sense thematically, is an untyped bonus to a very broad class of saving throws, and makes them too good for little effort spent, I'm not a fan of it. I get that Bravery is seen as fairly weak, but I also understand the rationale behind it, given how archetypical the corrupted warrior trope is. (Link to the Genius Guide to Bravery Feats. I should disclose that my friend wrote this, but it takes the idea of Bravery and tries to make more feats that play into it, granting new abilities to those who have Bravery. Very interesting take.)

5) Quick Healer: I quite like this. 5e has the second wind ability for fighters, which translated to PF is a swift action once per short rest (1 hour of downtime spent resting) that heals them 1d10+fighter level in HP. This is a similar idea, although primarily for out of combat healing it seems. I'm a bit more partial to the 5e version, given that it allows them to be the tough guy in combat, rather than the guy who just recovers from wounds faster when others heal him out of combat. If I were to recommend a change, it would be something like this:

Quick Recovery (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, whenever the fighter regains hit points, he gains an additional hit point per fighter level.

I'm A Tough Guy and/or Girl (Ex): The fighter's ability to resist damage that would fell lesser combatants is legendary. As a swift action, the fighter can heal himself 1d10 + his fighter points of damage (the bonus hit points healed from the Quick Recovery ability have already been factored in). Once the fighter uses this ability, he cannot use it again until he spends at least 1 hour in quiet rest or leisure activity, or until the next day, whichever comes first.

The advantage of Quick Recovery is that it's much simpler, and doesn't require the GM or players to keep track of the CL of various abilities, wands, etc. No more "Uhhh, thanks for the healing, but what's the CL of the ability?"

6) Martial Mastery: Good ability. Should reference the fighter weapon groups from the Weapon Training ability, but that's just my developer hat talking, and for a house rule, it's not really necessary to say this, as you know what it means. This is just mostly to get you to think a bit more like a developer if you decide to jump into 3pp or what not.

7) Complete immunity to fear is a bit much IMO. The fighter should be great against fear, as they are brave. That's what they be, yo. But I think this is just too much. I like the idea of reducing the effects of fear for non-magical sources. I generally consider hard counters to abilities to be poor design decisions. Why should a level 6 fighter be immune to Cthulhu's Unspeakable Presence ability? I think removing the immunity to magical fear would make for a better designed ability, but even then, what is essentially immunity to shaken is pretty strong too. Perhaps an ability like this would be better:

Don't Afraid O' Nuttin' (Ex): At 6th level, the fighter's fearlessness allows them to ignore the things that would cause lesser men to tremble in fear. In addition, the fighter shifts all fear effects down a level (so cowering becomes panicked, panicked becomes frightened, frightened becomes shaken). The fighter still counts as having the highest fear level they would've been affected with, but instead have the effects of the previous fear level. If an effect would cause the fighter to just be shaken, the fighter ignores all penalties of the Shaken condition, but still counts as having it for the purposes of stacking fear effects to produce a stronger version of the fear effect. If they are ignoring the penalties of Shaken, and are affected by a fear effect that would make them Frightened (which would essentially change them to be suffering the effects of Shaken), they gain a bonus on the saving throw or on the DC equal to 1/4th their fighter level. If the fighter would have been frightened, but that was turned into Shaken due to the above reduction in fear level, they still suffer the full effects of shaken. At 13th level, all penalties applied by fear effects are reduced by half.

That ability isn't entirely clear, and if I ever submitted that for publication, the developer would probably track me down and hit me with the core rulebook, but I think it's Clear Enough For Houserules (TM) and I'm already putting a ton of effort into this post, so forgive the slight laziness :)

(Explanation: If you are Shaken by an ability, you ignore the effects. If you are shaken again, despite the bonus to the saving throw / DC, which would normally cause you to become Frightened, you are instead Shaken and suffer the effects of that. If you get shaken AGAIN by an ability that can escalate fear levels, you are now frightened.)

This makes it so they can still be killed by Cthulhu (a plus in my book), but also have a fairly unique ability that makes them more resilient. Sure, there nerves can be tested, but they are able to be brave, even while afraid. Gotta put that good face on for the rest of the party, so they don't high tail it and run.

8) Mobile Warrior: I don't think this is necessary, and it doesn't solve the main problems fighters have vis a vis other martial classes. Plus, it's like 4 feats in 1, and if the fighter wanted to be a mobile fighter, they could definitely just invest the feats. I will slap anyone who says the fighter is feat starved, btw. I feel that the fighter's ability to move at full speed in medium and heavy armor is sufficient for this purpose, giving them some bonuses other classes would love to have.

9) Resilience: Yea, this one makes sense.

10) Inspiration to Others: I really don't like this one, as it's really powerful, always on with a large range, and doesn't require expending any resources (like the bard's abilities). I do like the idea of a fighting type inspiring his allies (I wrote the Exemplar brawler archetype, after all), but I think this is the wrong way to go about doing it.

11) By itself, without the good Will progression or Spell Defense, yea sure. With one or the other, maybe. With both, I really don't think this is necessary and verges on too strong.

12) Warrior's Eye: This is a really weird ability. Suddenly you can spot who the high level assassin is, even though they rolled a 60 on their disguise and stealth checks to blend into the crowd of 200 people in front of you. Some people are really wary of giving away metagame information, so they wouldn't like this, and at this level even with just a CRB only fighter, it just takes 2 full attacks at most to kill a CR equal creature and you don't need no HP monitoring to tell that, so it's just....odd. But I guess it is fairly high level.

13) Combat Mastery: Well that's certainly all of the sudden. But, level 18, so, meh. Should be fine, although I think it would be better if it scaled up, rather than auto-awesome at 18th level.

14) Flattening of scaling abilities in archetypes. I strongly dislike this, as there are very, very good balance reasons for why abilities scale and aren't just flat huge bonuses. The game does assume certain statistics at a given level, and +5 to whatever at this level gets really ridiculous, as it throws off the balance for a good number of levels. Especially ones that add to CMB or AC.

15) TWF feat changes and related archetype changes: I think these might be OK. TWF on fighter is very strong, and quickly can get to straight up overpowered, why-do-I-even-both-doing-anything-else-with-the-kukri-dude-in-the-party levels, but that entirely relies upon full attacks, and TWF is theoretically balanced out by the penalties to hit. Except for the fighter, he's meant to be one of the most consistent hitters, and his damage soars with the number of extra attacks they make. On the flipside, it is pretty lame to not be able to use the feats you invested in to do that cool move and double slice thing that looks B.A. in films. On the flipflipside, it really messes with THF being the king of "can move and still hit hard", as with all the bonuses to damage the fighter gets, the two attacks should easily outpace the THF.

Just things to consider for those changes.


I think there are some really cool ideas in here, but overall, I feel that it's way too much, even with me in the mindset that a fix is necessary. My main gripes were with all the saves and auto-immunity features, as well as the number of features that made them very good as a baseline, with no optimization necessary. I also don't find the out of combat solution satisfactory, although unfortunately I haven't come up with anything else, even this far down the post.

Even with just the skill ranks and K(Local)/Perception, Quick Healer, Martial Mastery, the toned down version of fearless, resilience, indomitable will, warrior's eye, and combat mastery, I think it's a solid boost to the fighter.

This has definitely given me a lot to think over since I read this yesterday, and I'm now even coming up with some loose abilities to better fit the themes of the fighter while not being what I would consider overpowered.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think this may be better asked in Website Feedback, so I've flagged it to be moved.

I haven't heard of any way to do exploding dice, but I also haven't explored the dice rolling options too much.

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The naming issue is a big problem for me. When I download the PDFs on my smart phone, the easiest way to figure out which is which is not by the name, but by remembering roughly when I downloaded it and going by the date modified timestamp. True, this is partially a problem of how much a PITA it is to rename files on my phone. But I shouldn't even have to run into that problem.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I see.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, the monk is called out as not being compatible with previous archetypes, so there goes Sohei.

AC-wise, there's also Defensive Spin style strike. Or potions of Mage Armor. Or just soak up more hits with the higher HD.

But people have been doing Str/Wis monks since the game came out, and they were doing just fine, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is it safe to say you're trying to address the squishiness of the fighter with these, as well as making them a bit more mobile?

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

PDT declares that shield master feat was poorly worded, thus closing loophole that people were exploiting by pretending to not be able to comprehend the feat.


News at 11.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

FYI, the sniper archetype is most likely going to receive errata that helps them out a fair bit.

From here

PDT wrote:
Replace the Sniper archetype’s Deadly Range ability with “Deadly Sniper (Ex): At 2nd level, when the sniper makes an attack against a target who is within his weapon’s first range increment and completely unaware of his presence, that attack ignores the 30 foot range limit on ranged sneak attacks, and if it is a sneak attack, he adds his sniper level as a bonus on his sneak attack damage roll. After this first attack, the target is aware of the sniper’s presence.”

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, the thing to keep in mind with the SLA is that there are two interesting design points about it.

The first is that its available only when the Eidolon is not out. For this reason alone, I'm very reluctant to recommend any change that takes an ability that they can't use while the eidolon is out, and turns it into an ability that is used when the eidolon is out. The only type of change I would recommend that works when the eidolon is out is one that's very weak, and then having another ability that works when the eidolon is away, one that fits his theme better (and is weaker than the SLA).

The second thing is that the purpose of the SLA is partially for a backup plan. If the eidolon goes down, the SLA is always there for the summoner to rely on until the beginning of the next day, when the eidolon comes back.

Adding more evolution points violates both of these ideas, so I don't think it's the best approach.

Do you know any other details on the player's envisioned character?

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

FWIW, Savage Worlds: Deadlands uses a poker mechanic.

One of the "archetypes" in it is the Huckster, who is an arcane gifted individual who is able to draw on playing cards to cast their spells. They get a low number of spell points compared to other caster types, but they get to "play with the devil" if they want. This involves playing a quick game of poker. You can get additional cards to pull from with certain Edges to generally allow you to stack the deck (literally) in your favor.

It also uses this poker playing system for gun duels, to help figure out who goes first. I think it may use the same system in other places too, but I'm not recalling details.

In the deadlands game I ran, it was not well received. I think most of it was how I presented it (kind of forgot to mention the card playing aspect until the first gun duel came up), but also people didn't like how it was much more complex than a die roll.

It also creates an oddity where player skill in another game matters in a game where player skill is supposed to be minimized by the use of dice rules (you don't need to be a world-grade fencer to use a rapier well, nor do you need to be an awesome real-life wizard to cast fireball in Pathfinder.)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My first thought is that the gods grant clerics the ability to raise the dead, and the cleric uses their discretion on who is worthy of being raised. The cleric could find someone of another faith still useful for furthering the goals of the cleric, for example.

If it were just for the devoted followers of the god, the god would just raise them as they died (or once they were in a safe location).

So personally, I don't think the idea is worthy of following up with, but perhaps a compromise could be made where devote followers don't have the negative level?

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wow! This is incredible. I've now added it to my list of awesome things to reference.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That is not PFS legal. You would still have to put more FCBs into the minor magic, even though it will do nothing, to be able to increase the major magic talent.

This is still fine for the core rogue, and the unchained classes kind of came with the assumption that not everything would work perfectly between them and abilities based on the old ones, so I doubt it'll be changed.

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Odd, and here I was thinking it was amazingly powerful, as the unchained rogue already forces you down the high dex TWF route, and this ability basically removes the whole "at lower to-hits" portion of TWF's "lots of attacks at lower to-hits." The first attack is likely to hit, and then the rogue activates blender mode.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

SLAs are defined in something like 3 places. They are purely mental though.
From this page:


Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is granted.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's been clarified that there are no "unchained ninjas". The ninja is an alternative class of the core rogue, not of the unchained rogue.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It works just like how you'd pick a weapon for weapon focus. So yes, you'd have to pick bite, claws, talons, etc.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If I recall correctly, the author doesn't like the race builder subsystem (for good reasons!), so I'm not sure you'll get a solid number. It's essentially a 20th level wizard arcane discovery, so it's probably very high, if it were to have a number. I think the highest point value in the builderis about 4, so maybe quadruple that.

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If their tail flame goes out, they die.

No wait, that's the wrong game.

Things get a bit steamy?

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, some people are just going to flat out not allow it, for myriad reasons. Arguments most likely won't work on them.

Assuming they're amenable, pizza and beer bribes may work. You'd also have to discuss how your character would react to being constantly driven out of town, being seen as an ill omen, ostracization, etc.

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Oh yea, I was pretty happy with finally defining how much space you could search. I recall that was one of Jiggy's original crusades, although I think that takes backseat to his current one.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I dunno. If you do use take 10 in combat, and you've been putting a rank a level in, that means you'll always be aware of what a creature is, as long as they are super rare or have a CR more than 1.5x your level.

And then you don't have to sigh when you make your character use a lightning attack against that giant mass of vines and slime just because your character doesn't know better and you rolled a 2 on your Knowledge (nature) check.

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I seem to recall that was the consensus like 3 years ago when this came up before, huh.

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You get 2 free skill ranks a level that must be spent on background skills. So it allows your character to know about one aspect of an overarching knowledge skill, without knowing everything in that skill. I've made a few characters where I thought to myself that I wish they knew about astronomy, without knowing about geography in general. That's what the system allows.

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That art is adorable and this news is most excellent. Congratulations! May the shinies continue!

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Sign me up! I'll make sure to find you guys.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Variant Multiclassing isn't meant to stop dipping. It's meant to allow you to get some minor abilities over another class without losing a ton of power. Consider that you're a level 13 fighter, and you want to get some wizard abilities.

So you take 1 level of wizard.

Great, you have the power of a 1st level wizard at level 14. Congratulations at your poor life choices.

Or you could've taken variant multiclassing and have the powers of a 14th level fighter with a school, a familiar, the 1st level school abilities as a 14th level wizard, some minor cantrips, and next level you get a 18 HD outsider at your beck and call.

Seems like a pretty big difference in abilities.

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Are there rules for hacking? I assume not, but doesn't hurt to ask!

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That never worked.

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It ain't so.


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Remember, the entire point for the written word is to communicate the intent. This is a case where there's very compelling evidence that the written word is communicating the intent poorly. But there's still a decent chance the intent is the same as the written word.

And this is trying to figure out which is the case.

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I have finally read the monk, and I am utterly dumbfounded how people can think this is anything but a huge upgrade for the class. A number of abilities people begged for in the Beta made it into this class, which I found very interesting.

It really seems that people are kneejerk reacting to the lower Will save, and greatly blowing that out of proportion than what it's truly worth. I'm going to be running the numbers on that later on. I do recall that when people were saying the monk was weak, they were running numbers against CR equal foes, so I'll take their lead and use that as the benchmark. That's only fair.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This was a perfect fit for my character, so now I have a drow-techno-hacker that is using this Path, and we did run across one question: how long does the spy drone last if you just use it as a tier 1-2 listening device?

And if I want to use it with the arcane eye ability, is that 2 uses of mythic power, or 1?


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I hope for a Pathfinder 2.0. The underlying rules system it is based on has critical flaws in it and it has not held up well when critically examined compared to modern roleplaying systems. It's 15 years old, and it is really showing its age. We've had amazing innovations in RPG design the past decade during a rebirth of roleplaying games. And PF benefited very little from this.

Hopefully Unchained helps a lot, at least for me.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yea, it says wind environmental factors, without specifying mundane or magical. So it defaults to both.

Given the +2 price tag of it, I'd imagine the point of it is to allow the archer to get around the one hard counter they normally have.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The brawler's fists work in mysterious ways, and I am content with the mystery.

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