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We have a local group (near Sacramento) with 19th level characters...and the Cleric is a Rogue with a 1 level dip. :)
I ran them through Xin-Shalast and it's pretty much Extended Haste, Heroism, Stoneskin, Mind Blank, etc. and commando through with backup buffs if Dispelled/expired, DimDooring for full attacks when able via familiars with wands. Limited Wishes (or even Wishes) & UMD scrolls for the emergency recovery and Quickened Chain Lightnings (perhaps acidic) for the tough fights.
high level hard facts:
-You do need high saves. They wouldn't have made it through without them, needing to roll in the low 20s TONS to avoid costly attrition and in the high 20s dozens of times to avoid elimination. Clear Spindles are not reliable, as they only cover enchantments/compulsions where you're given commands by an evil caster/source/spell.
-Anybody standing toe-to-toe needs an AC in the high 30s if you only want to get mauled. To stand tough, you need mid-40s because you can't let those iteratives hit you, not at 50 h.p./whack, and many monsters rely on hitting you to deliver very brutal effects.
Similar goes for CMD. Awesome Blows can add up fast, especially if the enemies readied one last round and you're prone for their full attack.
-There are no battle lines. Most everything can cover the battlefield in one move, or blast/dissolve/madden/banish at range. You should be able to as well, in all sorts of venues.
-Most everything can sense most anything hidden. You should be able to too. Many opponents can do recon on you, you should be able to too.
-Necklace of Adaptation is (nearly) a must.
-You need Quickened Dim Door, Grace, Walls of Force or Stone, Contingency-Resilent Sphere or Dim Door, etc. for those emergencies when you have less than a round to save yourself or somebody else.
Much of melee revolves around who can set up their full attacks first, and which caster(s)/ranged can neutralize the other caster(s)/ranged first, and which teams can harmonize the balance of the two sides as needed. Unfortunately many of your enemies at that level can play either way, i.e. outsiders and dragons.
At a Con last year, we were having an easy (and goofy) time going through Among the Living, that is until the end. (No spoilers)
One of the frontliners was cornered apart from the rest due to poor maneuvering and down he goes. I believe with a crit from good health to well below zero.
Wordlessly, we looked at the map and our plan unfolded as it had to.
From the ground, the frontliner grabs his weapon (safely) and takes down the enemy from there.
I really liked the way my friend and I were able to execute without table talk. Felt pretty cool.
It definitely wasn't core.I think I might have conflated PP, or more likely PFS-item rules, & Spellcasting services. Oops.
Generic spellcasting services are at minimal CL, and you can't choose whether it's divine or arcane. So as much as one might want a priest to cast Continual Flame and raise the CL, the churches all use Wizards for that. :)
But, it seems that PCs could buy casting services from specific NPC casters from the scenario who have the spell available, possibly a day later.
Exocrat, I don't think stepping into the room should have provoked.
Also, our party just rushed through the doors on the same turn. The surprise round should be you all entering, right?
You can get your individual turns down to 5-20 seconds.
I read that completely differently; that the distinction was for the spells listed (which are attacks, and do strike, but since they don't roll they don't qualify) and to distinguish AC from CMD (because maneuvers do use attack rolls, arguably strike, but also don't qualify.)RAI, I think the writer was not intending to separate the types of AC with that statement. RAW, you could parse it so, but you could also say "Flat-Footed AC" is distinct too with the same argument.
(Hey, it often has its own box on character sheets, right?)
If the writer wanted to be so specific about types of AC, they would have added another sentence for clarity.
My two g.p.
Ditto on the silver light mace (lycanthropes have high DR and can come at a low CR) & spiked gauntlet
Cold Iron anything, esp. arrows. Cheap.
MW tools for your day job, especially if then you can take 10 to get a 20.
Sleeves of Many Garments, 200 g.p. gets you into the fancy balls & ready for most environments, and can make an impromptu disguise in an enemy uniform.
Reach weapon for crowded times or just to get that first blow from an AoO.
Ranged weapon for missile combats, and ranged throwing weapon for a quick toss on the move.
If weight allows, all the stuff mentioned in The Confirmation briefing.
Tattoos that tell of your adventures. :)
A partially charged wand on your chronicle. Even if for an ally. :)
Ditto on the scrolls above (even if not for you to use) adding Feather Step, Jump, & Endure Elements.
One or more CLW potions (for those lacking other healing) to get somebody who can use the wand conscious.
Likely more stuff that I'm forgetting.
The Morphling wrote:
Chronicles definitely need to be more significant. The only thing on 90% of the chronicle sheets I care about is the gold and the XP. In nearly every case, the "found items" is literally pointless because almost every single character that gets to that level will have exceeded the fame limit for all of the items by a gigantic margin.
At a con this last weekend, I heard many people oohing and aahing about items on their chronicles...Oh, wait, they were all partially charged wands except one +2 Wis headband unlocked by a Cleric playing up.
I'm not sure I've ever had an item on a chronicle I couldn't buy anyway (except said wands) outside of "Dragon's Demand". Sometimes I'd like to buy something I've won from a fallen foe.
Cao Phen wrote:
I think you're right about Huge items. I'm not sure if it's for all, or just magic.
But wow on the Large Aklys for 2d6 w/ a one-handed weapon that trips.
Something that just occurred to me this weekend: want a sword with the stats of a katana, but able to be finessed? Try a small-sized elven curve blade! The ECB gets to be finessed by its own special text, and making it small lets it be a one-handed weapon for a medium character.
Jiggy, you raised my hopes...only to squash them.The text of finesse weapons (i.e. ECB or rapier) seems to always include "sized for you".
The resizing can get you:
Worth of those weapons is dubious (as in the minus to attack does not warrant the small damage increase except for flavor purposes or Vital Strike love), but with a Titan Mauler those minuses shrink away to zero.
It just struck me that a Large creature wielding a Small Polearm as a light weapon gets extra reach...
Hope that sparked some flavorful PC ideas for somebody out there,
Usually you're taking measure of your opponent as you're charging them. Incorporating an attack into your forward motion, while gauging defenses, will naturally slow you down.
In a sprint, you often tune out your surroundings (even, in game, to the point of losing your Dex bonus). To a degree, you are heedless, and thereby lacking such distractions that might slow you or cause you to pause ever so slightly.
Also, sprinters would be slower if they had to punch a guy at the tape.
I didn't say underpowered. There are a lot more factors than AC, most especially player skill.
If you're AC 26 before Wildshape, it sounds like you go up to 30 (unless there's a shield in there, I suppose). Frankly, AC 24 sounds darn right dangerous at 14th. At 7th, my Druid hybrid gets hit often with a higher AC than that. (Admittedly, I last played him in the two Bonekeep mods, so my perspective might be off.)
Anyway, good luck, sounds like a fun PC,
That's not a good example, Andrew, because you are underplaying him.
On the other hand, a Druid with a much higher Dex can escape the Max Dex limit that makes Full Plate reasonable and have a huge AC simply for having Wildshape, which already gives an AC bonus. (Net +4 even for your dino.)
As for YMMV, I don't think it necessarily can, if one were to print out all the rules and highlight the various parts. As RAW, at least on the AC portion of the armor & lack of penalties, is fairly clear.
As for non-AC bonuses on armor, it is quite messy on whether Wild allows those to work or not, or because they are passive & non-AC, whether they work with or without Wild.
Tough stuff, Cheers.
Broken Prince wrote:
True, Bracers of Armor are a poor choice, but they're the nearest thing.
I guess magic Studded Leather is the closest armor w/ 0 ACP, full move.
Druids do not have AC issues.
Low Templar in SE Asia wrote:
"My character is totally ineffective in this combat." ;)
I have heard this from powergamers.And it pisses them off royally.
(The more skillful or mature powergamers don't say this.)
That said, I do think the Stormwind fallacy is at play, unless you redefine/predefine powergaming to be a singular mindset. Perhaps leave "optimizer" open for the players who can juggle RPing into the mix.
Ahhh, got it.
It is cool. I'd thought it was all 5 attacks each round during grapple.
So, outside of pounce, rake just keeps them even while still being able to hold their foe. None of that "drop the baddie to get full attack" stuff that happens, often with bears. Felines still might want to drop the baddie to go pounce on somebody else though. :)
Answered by many disagreeing voices maybe, but I didn't see any staff, much less Devs, in the discussion. If anything they just jumble the mess more by talking about Slick & other static armor/shield enchantments that aren't armor bonuses and whether those come or go, and about Bracers which aren't armor, but grant armor bonuses.It's a mire.
Wild then says the armor or shield bonus is preserved, that's it, not that the armor changes shape or isn't melded. So it's still gone.
A Druid/Monk PC with Wild Dragonhide Plate +1 & Wild Large Wooden Shield +1 would have +13 AC with absolutely no drawbacks when Wildshaped, even having both arms/paws free.
Again, for PFS, this appears unstoppable other than by diplomacy with the player.
Sleep and colour spray are based off if hd, not hp
Obviously.Doubling the h.p. doesn't help toughen against non-h.p. attacks.
Hence the need to adjust the rules for those type spells when used against single creatures who "behind the scenes" represent two creatures.
If the scenario is 1-4, you cannot play a 5.
Most scenarios will have this prefigured.
So you could piggyback with higher level PCs, but that'll just make it harder for you now (and them!), even if it nets you more gold to make it easier later.
PFS isn't that hard. You shouldn't need to milk the g.p.
It's not normal modern English?Hmm...
Maybe I gotta get more roles covered in my party of friends with which I traverse this world of ours.
128a) And perhaps creatures with strong SLAs too or a low Con to Cha ratio.
129) I shall purchase traps that are relevant, and relevantly placed, so a 750 g.p. stick does not undo the trap's work and my lackeys can maximize use of the trap's premise.
130) I will not take action against the Pathfinder Society, nor their allies, unless the profit shall exceed the inevitable losses. If I do, it will be through a subsidiary and I shall plant notes among my staff giving details about the nearest Aspis Consortium headquarters, perhaps with a friendly note from them with only a cursive initial (vaguely resembling several letters) and a hint of their logistics (vaguely phrased around nonspecific dates). I'll let the Pathfinders draw their own conclusions.
131) I will not discuss my real plans in front of able-bodied slaves or new hires. I will discuss my "plans" about gardening, raising bunnies, and fundraising for orphans.
132) I will chill on wearing the spikes & skulls in public, or when incognito. Ditto for scowling. I shall encourage scowling and defensiveness among relatively unimportant people.
133) I shall purchase inexplicable tattoos for random townsfolk, most especially if my group uses tattoos too.
Cheers & a thread bump
If you can't make the space to fight all at once there are other tricks:
The same issues you face when getting the 9 PCs all able to contribute are what you face with these baddies. See if there are choices your players are making to maximize participation & see if they can be applied to your monsters.
When dealing with so many PCs it's a bit too awkward to use formulas to determine reasonable enemies. Don't get hung up on the number, as the system isn't built to handle corner cases like yours anyway (just like it does poorly with high numbers of enemies).
A good rule of thumb is to take a reasonable encounter for their level and double the number of the enemy.
Having run 6+ player games where Leadership was allowed, trust me on this.
Have a blast & Cheers.
If they see a threat outside, and are at a level where they're facing four of these things, they'll be really buffed before exiting.
The only time you can charge as a standard is when you are limited to only a standard action per round. (Surprise round, slowed, staggered, etc.) Otherwise, it is a full round action and cannot be readied (unlike previously mentioned or 3.X).
Since they have pounce, Delay works best. The first PCs out will still get smashed before the others exit.
Initiative depends on your prior rulings.
My 2 g.p.
I don't agree that the grapple check to free the sword counts as initiating a grapple. Yes, it's the first instance of "grapple" and started by the PC, but if anything it's to escape not to begin grappling.
So, yes it sticks if you miss the save.
My 2 g.p.
1. Wrong forum. It belongs in the Advice forum.
Take the Magical Knack trait.
It sounds like you want to fend foes off while blasting. EK makes for a poor blaster, or other offensive caster for that matter because your stats will be spread as well as your feats & class levels. Also, you won't really be able to fend them off once Ogres hit the table and your ability to heal yourself will be minimal compared to damage.
One of my buddies loves the EK concept and he has two at higher levels (one 19th), but both have been disappointments for him because the pure martial PCs and the pure caster PCs make his contributions pale.
Personally, I think EKs work best as self-buffing martials. There are enough long-term buffs to keep you even with martials and have some cool tricks too.
I suppose a ray caster could benefit from the BAB too, but if you don't intend to make attack rolls unless forced, just skip EK.
My 2 g.p.
Chris Mortika wrote:
OMG, that's horrible. (Well, great that you did that prep.)Our group had a miserable time running into all these roadblocks. Frustration grew, and our newbie GM was struggling to find the material...which wasn't even addressed.
Not good. Not good at all.
It also didn't help we had two other reasonable solutions to the dilemma, and had to rely on an NPC we just barely didn't kill in order to know the proper railroad to take.
Great, now I'm grumpy. :(
Okay, over it.
The non-AP (and highly successful) Pathfinder gains 2 Fame per scenario, and with 3 scenarios per level, gains 6 Fame per level.
Care Baird wrote:
LOL.And this coming from a GM featured on the other thread.
Oh yeah, and whose name has been used as a verb on these boards!
"Oh, we got bairded! Everybody was down, but at least I was able to Dim Door out with one guy & get him rezzed." Something like that...
BTW, I would love to sit down at your table. (Though not with my main!)
Yours too, TOZ.
Or Halfling! Long live the Tumbleblades!
As I was filling out a post for the complement to this thread re: trouble, I realized I'd rather focus on the joys of this game I love.
-When you sit at the table next to a guy you bantered with last convention, who looks joyful to see you too.
You can be an Arcane Trickster with no arcane levels, and still progress in spell levels. Unlike most other "arcane" PrCs (Arcane Archer, Dragon Disciple, et al), progression is not only for arcane spellcasting.
Also neat, you can use Magical Talent to gain Arcane Strike. Not so great for non-casters, but for your martial divine caster the CL progresses with yours. +2 damage to all attacks at 5th can be pretty nice with a claw/claw/bite Druid, and it bypasses DR/magic.