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I know this isn't representative of the whole build but at Wizard 1/Sorcerer 1/ Arcanist 18 using form of the Dragon III against a CR 20 Oppnent the DPR is 504. The only buffs I have applied are a CL 20 Greater Magic Fang and a keen amulet of Mighty Fists.

I do have a sample version of it at level 5 with a single mythic tier that can kill most CR appropriate enemies in 1-3 rounds. The build seems fun and I feel like it could be an interesting BBEG.


Thanks, Ravingdork. This character isn't going to come online until mid level and needs atleast one mythic tier to work, but the numbers I'm getting are really good. I'm out damaging the best barbarian or Paladin I've ever made.


I wonder is varisian tattoo would affect the BAB benefit of shapeshifting mastery?

Ultimately the goal is to go with a form of the dragon spell for polymorph so items could be useful before shifting but not after. Although the transformation spell would allow me to use weapons. I don't want to take weapon focus because the types of attacks will be changing. I don't really know what I want to do in combat besides damage.


I attempted building it and came to the conclusion taking wizard at level 5 is the most optimal (arcanist gets second level spells and the physical enhancement ability is a +2) and sorcerer at 10 is best (atleast for Orc because you get the inherent bonus and might be able to afford a robe of arcane heritage which gives you the +4 bonus at effective level 13).

All in all by level 20, if optimizing strength, I'm getting a 62 strength score (while polymorphed) with a +20 BAB from shapeshifting mastery and magical knack.

My problem now is I don't know what to do with feats. Outside of power attack (at level 3) I don't know what I need. Are there feats that specifically enhance transmutation spells?


I just realized that brown fur doesn't get its abilities until level 3 (4 with the wizard multi class). That's just a +2 to strength so it won't make a huge difference.


What would happen if yo took the mage's tattoo(transmutation) feat, or an arcanist's potent magic to raise CL?


I should add that I'd probably start play at level 8 with two or three mythic tiers. Also, I'm imaging the character more as a fighter that will eventually get high level spells.

I'm willing to delay the sorcerer level. If I end up going Orc there's not a real reason to take it until my effective bloodline level is 9 for the inherent strength bonuses.
Comparing it to a martial (we'll do it at arcanist 1/ wizard 1)
I start with say 15 strength, add1 enhancement from the school ability, cast alter self for a +4 size bonus via brown fur and that's a 20 strength at level 2. On par with what a fighter could reasonably have. My arcanist CL is two for natural attacks because of the mythic power shape shifting mastery. That's a +7 to hit. Transform into a troglodyte for claw, claw, bite (1d4+5 three times). That doesn't quite beat a martial but it is three attacks at full BAB (that can be buffed) compared to one. Assuming everything hits (obviously not going to happen but for the purpose of this) that's an average of 22 damage compared to a great sword with power attack (17 damage). I realize it's not perfect but, can still be effective while getting better with age.


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Right now this is just theory crafting but if it works I think it would be fun to play in a home game.

The basic idea is taking brown fur transmuter for a level and using the human bonus feat to pick up extra exploit at level one.I'd take school understanding (transmutation) and bloodline development (I don't know what yet). Then I'd dip a level of wizard and a level of sorcerer. Both exploits say that if you gain an actual bloodline or school from another source it lets you count your arcanist levels for progression of "powers and abilities." Then I'd take the rest of my levels in arcanist. I'd take magical knack to keep caster level up and to answer the BAB concerns my GM gave us mythic teirs in the game I'd play in so I can take the archmage ability to treat CL as BAB while transformed. At that point I'd have a 19th level school and Bloodline (barring items to raise the level of them of course).

So my questions:
1. what bloodline synergizes best with a transmutation/melee specialist?
2. IS this just a terrible idea?


If you're Buffing, you'll want to go first so an initiative trait like reactionary can be good.


How are you criting on an 18-20? The weapon only crits on a 20 which should expand to 19-20 with improved critical. Unless I'm missing something...


If the wizard is planning on summoning have them stat out their summons for combat before the session to save time at the table.


I like a combo of zen archer and inquisitor. You get all of the damage bonuses from inquisitor added to all the extra attacks defense from the monk. Plus wisdom does almost everything for you.


The undine race gives you a swim speed and meshes well with monk for unarmed fighting. You could also go summoner to summon aquatic animals.


It might be worth noting that for certain builds Celestial Full Plate does the same thing as the heavy training talent (in essence).


I would normally agree, but the vigilante power attack talent gives you a shield bonus when you use it so it might compensate a little.


Also, maybe I'm missing it but I can't seem to find a rating for the "shield of fury" vigilante talent.


I'm interested to see damage calculations for lethal grace and whether it makes an elven curve blade worth it or if it's better to just go two weapons.


Now my trouble is figuring out feats. After I get dex to damage nothing excites me in terms of combat feats. I want this character to be really good at skills (maybe a drug dealer ala Walter White or a mafia don).


I'm going with a rapier or a shorts word so I can put the inspired enchantment on it.


Yeah. That's exactly what the house rule does.


Fair enough. What if I bought an agile weapon and then just got mythic weapon finesse when I get my tiers (1-2 sessions from now)?


The general idea with intimidate it to take signature skill to add on frightened or panicked. The only real reason I want to do that is to give myself an extra niche in combat as we already have a pretty combat heavy party (with mythic tiers that I'd still have to earn).

I'm considering an agile weapon just to open more feat space. The way the GM does weapons makes it relatively simple and cheap to get one (any purchase of a +1 also comes free with an ability).


I'm building a dex-based investigator to replace a character that recently died. I have a general idea of where I want to go with it (dazzling display for early crowd control then dex-based Meele). My question is since I'll be starting at level 8 is it more beneficial to take a level of inspired blade swashbuckler for easy access to the fencing grace feat or should I just take all of my levels in investigator and buy an agile weapon?


Take the extra trait feat and get traits that give the desired skills as class skills


Should I be looking into combat maneuvers?


If you happen to go mythic, the mythic version on the Eldritch heritage feat replicates the whole line in just the one feat. That means that you can get bloodline powers and stick to a 13 charisma. If you have access to mythic does that make Eldritch heritage more Enticing?


With the relative ease it requires for a phantom thief to aquire skill focus, are there any Eldritch Heritages that would be good for the builds?


How does the unchained major magic work? Do you get extra spells for every two levels or do you get extra uses of those spells?

A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list once per day as a spell-like ability for every 2 rogue levels she possesses. The rogue's caster level for this ability is equal to her rogue level. The save DC for the spell is equal to 11 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. A rogue must have the minor magic rogue talent and an Intelligence score of at least 11 to select this talent.


I guess it's counter intuitive to the dex-to-damage thing, but a strength build lets you take intimidating prowess which could put intimidate through the roof. Also, if you take dirty fighting you could go for a whole host of feats without prerequisites.


How about mundane crafting? Would cheap alchemical items be useful?


As far as I can tell a phantom thief can get a lot more combat feats than a traditional rogue. So keeping that in mind, what kind of feats should be taken to maximize the skill set it already has (skills & vigilante talents) to improve versatility in combat?


The dampen presence feat cover blindsight/sense if you wanna go that route. Maybe craft alchemy would also let you have versatile options?


With such a strong focus on skills, does anyone else know of anything creative that can be done to give a fairly consistent niche in combat?


I'm commenting because i like the idea of the archetype and wanna see if anyone has any input.

My biggest concern with it is what you'd do in combat. The best thing I can figure out is an intimidate build with a focus on crowd control.


Master summoner and sythesist both replace the eidelon class feature and the bond senses feature. They don't stack.


I think I might consider vital strike or lunge for now. Is there anything essential that I might be missing?


@heretek I actually already took the legendary item and selected my greatsword for RP reasons.

Is there any in going with an intimidate build from this point? Seems thematic with the Oath of Vengeance.


I have have 9 feats remaining (6 from levels, 3 from mythic). Any feat chains I should consider?


I'd have to take regular vital strike. I'm using a greatsword, so it wouldn't be the worst, but I feel like with the smite bonuses I should be going for full attacks. At this point damage isn't really an issue.


Hello everyone,

I'm having trouble coming up with a path for my paladin as I have finished all of the feat trees I wanted. I am a level 8 tiefling paladin (Oath of Vengeance)with the 3 mythic tier (Guradian).

These are my feats:

Fey Foundling
Power Attack
Greater Mercy
Skill Focus (Survival)
Eldritch Heritage (orc)
Mythic Eldritch Heritage
Mythic Power Attack

The only thing I will say is that I'm a little wary about extra lay on hands because my charisma is high and with the third mythic tier I can get them back really easily.

Thanks for any help!


We probably will get to level 15, so the 15th level ability that enhances the mount(DCs give them up)throws me off a bit. :P


I'm trying to make a daring Champion cavalier (probably halfling and probably dex based)and am having trouble figuring out a good order to use. Does anyone have some good suggestions?


I've just played a ton of wizards recently and know how powerful they can be. I'd like to see if I can beat a dungeon with a slightly more creative build.


I challenged my DM to a competition where I'll build my best level 20 character with 10 mythic tiers and I'' go through a ten room dungeon with progressively harder challenges. My question is what type of character is best suited for this type of challenge? He says I'll need combat, skills, and anything else that pathfinder supports. I'd prefer not to go with wizard because it feels cheap.


If they're marked by fate why don't you just treat it as if he's been reincarnated into a lesser body. Allow him to keep his paladin abilities but the fates have decided to give him a racial body that is less "paladiny," like an orc or something. Part of the quest could then be to reverse the reincarnation.


I'm trying to build a lore oracle with two basic premises:

1. The oracle should be great at Knowledge checks. (I would like them all to be class skills).
2. The oracle should know some or several arcane spells.

I decided to go half-elf and take the ancient lorekeeper archetype for the arcane spells, but it trades away the class knowledge skills for just arcana and local. Am I missing an easy way to get more knowledge skills or am I just biting off more than I can chew?


Just a thought, but wouldn't eldrich Scion make a dip in Paladin (saves and Smite), oracle (Sidedtep & maybe Mystic Theurge), and dragon Disciple viable if not beneficial for the magus?


I've been offered a challenge by my GM for an upcoming game. The Idea is that I start with 7's in all my physical score and he'll let me take 18's in all of the mental ones. So here's the challenge: Make the most effective Combatant with only mental score. I could go full caster (probably wiz/sorc), but that seems like taking the easy way out and wouldn't utilize all of the mental stats. So here's my plan as of now:

3 levels of Zen archer Monk--- Because of the low CON score, I think the best strategy is to stay as far away from combat as possible. ZAM gets me Wis to AC, CMD, and to hit with bows (plus a few bonus feats).

2 Levels of Paladin---Divine grace, Smite (CHA to AC and to hit vs evil) and maybe some extra stuff if I go with an archetype.

2 Levels of Inquisitor--- The heretic archetype adds wisdom to bluff and stealth, or I could just keep monster for the knowledge bonuses. Wis is added to Initiative as well

1 Level of Oracle--- Nature, Lore or Lunar mysteries get me Cha to replace Dex in AC

1 Level of Mindchemist--- A cognatagen and double the INT on KN checks.

1 Level of Sleepless Detective PRC--- Int is added to Sense motive and Perception.

Noble Scion feat- Cha to Initiative.

These are just ideas right now. I figure I can make an amazing skill character who has some combat ability and at the very least can UMD his way through a battle.

Any other ideas for this experiment?


My Home game is playing a game to test OP builds. The Starting stat Array is 27,25,24,22,18,17 (Done by GM Random rolls) and then we rolled a d6 to assign them.

My Array is:

Str 25
Dex 27
Con 24
Int 22
Wis 18
Cha 17

Combat stats are pretty close together, but the high Int is intriguing. What would you do with these stats. I just feel overwhelmed by the class options (in a good way).


If you could add 6 Class levels to a nymph what would they be? My group is playing a game where we are using monsters as PCs. I would prefer to avoid sorcerer because we already have one.

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