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Banba

Carl Cramér's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 301 posts (784 including aliases). 35 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.



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Sacrificing Con to make magic items actually makes becoming a lich meaningful - first you turn all your Con int magi items, then you become undead and rely on Cha instead.

On another line, something I'd think very interesting is a breakdown of the CR modifications for different levels of items - say no items, low NPC budget, hing NPC budget.


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For me, Stealth has 2 major issues, one of which has a potential solution already in the rules.

The first is that because you make Stealth rolls every round, Stealth is doomed. With enough rolls, the sneaker will always fail. The solution to this is in the Invisibility rules. With invisibility, you get a +20 DC modifier if you remain still. I read this as remaining absolutely still (no actions involving movement of any kind), and apply it to Stealth as well. This makes a pre-prepared ambush really hard to notice (which is nice as a GM, because sometimes the plot more or less demand them), and allows a Scout to remain in place, silently observing with no risk of discovery. In practice, I do not roll Stealth checks every round - it is just too tedious. I require rolls when the hiding character moves, takes an action, or the situation otherwise changes. Otherwise I assume the +20 modifier for remaining still covers the situation.

The second is the definition of "distraction" in the Stealth rules - the rules are very sketchy. I rule an observer as distracted if there is a clear danger closer than the character trying to hide, and a severe distraction (-5 Perception) if the threat is in melee.

I use opposed rolls. I feel the truncated probability scale of only rolling 1d20 is too tight for me. This is more of a matter of preference than anything else.


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christos gurd wrote:
I just wanted to share some off topic news, but my first official product with little goblin games as a designer (tome of twisted things) just got a 5 star from endzeitgeist, and i really wanted to share it with guys. Thanks to all of you guys for getting me into the design process, this wouldn't have happened without the mca crew encouraging me on.

Congratz, man! I can't take any credit for helping you since all your work likely happened way before I came in.

I'll take a look at the Battle Sorcerer tomorrow (past midnight here now).


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:


* Instead of precise companion, just give Precise Shot as a bonus feat. Create alternative option for melee-focused hunters (who have no need for Precise Shot).

A melee hunter could benefit from being able to ignore cover provided by his beasts, when fighting with a reach weapon. Right now, there is no way to avoid the cover penalty with a melee weapon. This is specific to reach-weapon hunters, so other melee hunters won't benefit.


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Westley Roberts wrote:

If the goal of class design is that it should be desirable to make single class characters, the Swashbuckler is a failure.

I think the swashbuckler should be able to obtain easy access to the Style feats in some way other than dipping MoMS. As it stands, a MoMS dip is almost compulsory. The question is not shall I dip MoMS, but when.

Perhaps if they could take the style feats as bonus feats without having to meet the prerequisites?

Actually, having to take martial arts style feats is in itself a failure for a class built to simulate western-style fencing. The swashbuckler should be able to perform at this level of competency out of the box.


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Athaleon wrote:
It's probably easiest to design the base class around Sword & Buckler, then add Sword & Dagger / Sword & Pistol / Bastard Sword (I hope) as archetypes.

With a 3rd party design, I'd change the buckler to small shield. It is way more accurate to the historical model, and allows TWF. As part of a TWF variant of the swashbuckler, it would work much better.


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Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

[...]

You could have something that does a similar thing, have the skill check always determine the degree of success, except for the fact saddling such a thing with a skill check seems weird if you don't even reach the normal DC for a really easy question (DC 10) and stupid flipping insane when you roll a 1.

I guess you could delve into other strange mechanics that you roll a die on top of a supposed take 10, but that is a rabbit hole of "why bother?"

Why bother, when you can give someone an ability that is based on Intelligence, skill, and has some variability (in the amount of damage) and works with certainty. After all, in many ways, the investigator is a class built upon a degree of certainty.

And because of that, I tend to stray away from (and by "stray away from" I mean freaking avoid) the grand variance ball that is the d20 for determining such things such as the bonuses to accuracy and damage you get during combat. It comes into play at just the right spot when you make an attack roll.

While I sympathize with this point, and share your desire to make the game fast and smooth to run, I have an important reservation (had to think about it a while, thus the late comment).

In general, simple is good. But there is a point where simple becomes simplistic, and that is when things are no longer fun. I am not saying this is that point - actually that point varies from person to person. I am just saying that this is something to look out for. This path is the road 4E went down, and it's not been seen since...


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I want to make the case that Advanced Class Guide should look into the Stealth skill and increase it's utility - a lot.

Why? Because in more than half the discussions here, the gimpedness of the rogue seems to come up. Class X is being held down because it is half rogue, and thus it cannot be a better rogue than the rogue is. Because so many things in this book tangentially touch the rogue, a rogue buff would seem to be needed. Otherwise the gimpedness of the rogue means 1/3 of these new classes are gimped too. And in a future revision it is a lot harder to correct 4 classes at once than it is to correct a single class.

I know the devs say the rogue is not gimped, and to a degree it is true. The rogue has some nice abilities (even if the talents have too many usage limits). But the problem is that the rogues main trick - sneak attack from stealth - really isn't a viable tactic. This forces the rogue to rely on flanking, which puts him in danger, where his poor defenses gets him killed. If the rogue could instead reliably use Stealth to achieve sneak attack, it would make him less reliant on others, reduce his exposed position, and actually work as a defense (you cannot attack what you cannot see).

Much of this comes from a 4E game I used to run that had a sneak-and-throw-daggers rogue. 4E Stealth rules were much clearer and much more liberal than Pathfinder's. At first the utility of this kind of stealth sort of overwhelmed me as a GM, but soon I came to see it as a natural and worthwhile rogue ability.

Additionally, the current Pathfinder Stealth rules are very unclear. From just reading the skill description, it is almost impossible to understand what they mean. I have had to research several forums to get what I feel is an understanding of Stealth, and that still has a lot of assumptions in it.

How: So, what kind of Stealth rules do I want? Rather than trying to write out a new rule, I will give some points that I feel the Stealth rules should allow.

  • It should be easier to get a distraction to hide, and much clearer than it is now. In general, an ally closer to the enemy than you are should be an adequate distraction. An enemy actually in melee could suffer a -5 distraction penalty to Perception, more if actually flanked.

  • It should be possible to gain stealth at the end of a round after making a (ranged) Sneak attack, potentially setting you up for a full round of sneak attacks next round as well. Naturally you need to be under cover/concealment to do this.

  • Stealthed should be a condition, similar to invisible. Either you are stealthed or you are not, there is no such thing as being hidden only to some enemies (unless there are two distinct groups that do not communicate). That means that a single high-Perception opponent helps defend all his pals, making Perception less of a universal must-have for PCs. (This is actually a slight nerf compared to how I think Stealth works right now).

  • Once you are Stealthed, the result should be like invisibility, and should last until the end of your turn at a minimum. So all actions you do during your turn effectively benefit from invisibility - including moving past enemies outside of cover and making full attacks.

  • Because this is an extraordinary ability, things like True Seeing and See Invisible are no defense.

Yes, I know this makes Stealth more powerful, and that is actually the point. By making Stealth more powerful, you make the rogue more balanced, which creates design space to improve classes like the investigator and slayer and by lesser degree the hunter and swashbuckler.


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Vazt wrote:
Dex bonus to damage for this weapon group does square the class up with str fighters and I could see removing Nimble to compensate for the increase to ac and reflex that the focus on dex brings.

This is a really interesting observation. I am worrying that low-level swashbucklers have too low an AC. This class currently escalates AC quite heavily over levels. It has three places to put enhancement bonuses for AC: Dex, Buckler, Armor. And gets nimble on top of that. It might all escalate a bit too much. I would greatly prefer a low-level Ac boost and let the higher levels take care of themselves. Classes that have level-based escalating AC bonuses like the monk almost never use a shield, so they have one fewer place to put AC enhancements.


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Googleshng wrote:
Exposing Strike: For your next attack (or if you really want to go nuts, while you have one panache), triple the normal critical threat range of weapon (20 becomes 18+, 19+ becomes 15+, 18+ becomes 12+). This effect does not stack with other effects that expand crit range (such as Swashbuckler Weapon Training). Obviously, this one would have to come at a real high level since it's self-fueling.

Make this always-on but restrict it as Finesse Strike, and this is the cure for TWF blues - now a single weapon gets as many crits as TWF does, and thus generates as much panache. Of course, there is also a restrictive way to do this - restrict Swashbuckler Weapon Training to only work as precise strike does.

The more this focus on a single weapon continues, the more I feel this class is really about casting spells with the off hand - like the 3.5 bladesinger. Might be room for a swashbuckler/magus combo.


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Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Neo2151 wrote:

You guys are killing me with all these feat taxes. :(

What happened to, "I don't like feat taxes either"?

I think your definition of a feat tax and mine are a little different. Dex to damage right now lives in the feat design space, and in very limited ways. Opening that up to more weapons but not making it a class feature is not a tax.

If this proposed feat is open to everyone, I could agree it's not a feat tax. Possibly it should still be a swasbuckler bonus feat. If it is swashbuckler-specific, it is very much a feat tax.

My solution to swasbuckler damage is to move precise strike to 1st, then add dex-to-damage at level 3. Reduces the dipping.


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Chris Parker wrote:
If you're going to use talents to add debuffs to attacks, then I'd suggest letting you do that each attack rather than only on the studied strike. Otherwise, there's no point picking those traits up because the enemy will likely be nearly dead anyway. Instead, perhaps spend an Inspiration point to inflict them instead.

How about the way to study an opponent is to use one of these debuff abilities? You do two things useful to your team: a) Debuff enemy buying time. b) Set yourself up to hit hard later.


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ChainsawSam wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
It gets Intimidate though. You can Gather Info with Intimidate I believe.

No.

You can use Intimidate like Diplomacy only for the purposes of changing a targets disposition towards you.

Gather Information cannot be replicated by Intimidate.

Maybe an ability that lets you gather information using Intimidate, but after 24 hours the fear goes out of them and they start to talk about it?


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Sorry, I wish I could love this class.

On a closer reading, the revised swashie lost it's best abilities (pommel strike and targeted strike) for improved weapon finesse and some rules clarifications. It still waves tissue paper as armor and does less damage than other meleeists.

Since there already is at least one way to do this (duelist), the swashbuckler seems to have little point at the moment - it is sort of the "duelist that couldn't".

Starfox wrote:
Swashbuckler wrote:
Superior Feint (Ex): At 7th level, a swashbuckler with at least 1 panache point can spend a standard action to purposely miss a creature that she could normally hit with a light or one-handed weapon melee attack. When she does, that creature is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC until the start of her next turn.
Is this decided before or after rolling for to-hit? That is, does the attack actually need to hit, or is it enough that it has the (possibly remote) ability to hit on a very good die roll.

No worries about the above, as a standard action this is too situational to use except when ganging up on creatures of such Dexterity they cannot be hit - like a duelist.


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I am finally getting studied strike. It is not a reliable combat tactic, it is a once/fight finisher for a class who's reliable combat option is to go for the mcguffin. As a player who likes to go for the mcguffin, I find this to be pretty good. It might present some problems in combat intensive dungeon campaigns, but then perhaps that is not the ideal home of the investigator.


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Starfox wrote:
Item Lore talent at 7th, and as a talent. I can see making this a talent, because doing so means that in a group with a real wizard, identifying things will be the wizard's job and the investigator won't ever take this. But having a lvl 7 talent to replace about 1/4 of the functionality of a cantrip (detect magic does a whole lot more than identify items) is underwhelming. Also, Spellcraft is not a class skill - making the identification with knowledge arcana would make this at least marginally useful.

Came up with this too late to make it an edit, but the obvious skill for an investigator to use in identifying magic items would be Use Magic Device. I could also see something that makes this an Int-based skill for the investigator.


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Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Are there any other exploit ideas that folks would like to see. We've got a few that we are planning to add, but I want to see what you have to say.

The Magus' Knowledge Pool.


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First impression of this (didn't really read the pre-revision one carefully): it's powerful!

The concept is to sneak up on foes and assassinate them silently. But you can just as well learn to use heavy armor (basically no abilities have an armor restriction), be a tank, and flank with other tanks. And you get an additional six skill points for doing this. Two weapons seems like a nice option, as you get all your bonuses on each attack.

The real benefit of sneaking for this class is to get to select your targets before the fight, so you don't lose time in-fight. That might make it pay to stay with less armor.

And you get six skill points. Basically for free.

I wonder if this isn't a better swashbuckler than the swashbuckler.


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Aw written, the skald's music is situational, with synergies with some parties but not with others. Comparing rage song to regular insire courage, it is of less utility - anyone who loves raging song also loves inspire courage, but the reverse is not true.

For a figher, paladin, or cavalier, the AC penalty can actually kill any synergy. Most medium-bab classes should benefit, with the possible exception of cleric and oracles (and rogue/ninjas, if the GM are cruel with the limitations). No full-caster class will benefit. This means that about half the classes will benefit, but not the most popular/powerful ones. In a party of five in PFS, you can expect synergy with 1 other character most of the time, 2-3 if you are lucky. Those who will really benefit are pet classes: summoners, druids, summon-specced clerics and arcane casters. Since summons really don't care much about defenses or hp economy, the buff from raging song really rocks.

Outside of song, the skald is a decent spellcaster and second-rank fighter with a nice ability to have that one specific cure from kenning. It has Haste, with conditional benefits others much the same as song.

As a fighter, the skald is about where the cleric is - which is not all that impressive.

kBro wrote:

Scribe Scroll still doesn't feel like it fits, neither thematically nor mechanically.

Thematically, Skald's are keepers of lore and knowledge, but it is by oral tradition, not written, that history is kept. A Skald would never write down and read the stories of his parties vast exploits, he would go off on an inspiring bout of storytelling, embellishing in the details and hyping up his buddies. If he pulled out a scroll and started reading it, he would be laughed out of the tavern, as no self respecting lore keeper would let themselves be seen needing to read the story of their exploits.

This is actually true. The reason we have the sagas is that they were penned down, but that only happened in the 12C, at least a hundred years after the events portrayed. Until that time, the sagas were oral.


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Item Lore talent at 7th, and as a talent. I can see making this a talent, because doing so means that in a group with a real wizard, identifying things will be the wizard's job and the investigator won't ever take this. But having a lvl 7 talent to replace about 1/4 of the functionality of a cantrip (detect magic does a whole lot more than identify items) is underwhelming. Also, Spellcraft is not a class skill - making the identification with knowledge arcana would make this at least marginally useful.

Quick Study talent: This feels like a talent tax to be able to perform as a highly mediocre combatant. It should be inherent to how studied combat works.

Trap Sense: This is a lot less useful to an investigator than to a rogue, as the investigator does not have evasion.

Studied Strike: It is a bit unclear how this applies to spells like Scorching Ray or Holy Ice that do multiple attacks as a part of a single spell. An investigator would have to use these from a wand with Use Magic Device, but the combination with Holy Ice in particular is potentially very powerful.

Overall, the class seems like the rogue, only more so. It is basically useless in a fight and king outside of it. I could easily see the player of an investigator leave the room when a fight begins.


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I'd have preferred a non-armor class (rather than a light armor class). I find that if I wanted to add a martial-arts fighter, I'd put more priority on removing armor than removing weapons. The idea of fighting unarmed but in armor is a little silly to me.


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The bloodrager concept is all about the bloodline, and yet bloodline spells are gained late.

The bloodrager gains his bloodline spells 3 levels late - he gains his first level bloodline spell when he gains his second level normal spell, and so on. While I can see balance reasons to have the bloodline spells come late in this way, I feel it hurts the concept a lot (just like the similar effect on the sorcerer does).

I feel that the bloodline spell should be the power that comes to the bloodrager (and sorcerer) early and naturally. It ought to be the first spell of each level he learns. If this means the bloodrager spells known list has to be scaled back, I can live with that. I could actually see how the bloodrager would get ONLY the bloodline spells at levels where he has zero spells of a particular level (levels 4, 7, 10, and 13).

About the spell list outside of bloodline spells, I don't mind the current spell list, but why not simply use the magus list? Afraid of the "wall" spells?


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The arcanist is still an interesting class. Unlike most, I don't feel that the ability to change your known spells is over the top and needs to gimp every other class feature by extension.

First impression of the revision: A very top-heavy class. At higher levels you have the spell slots to actually use your exploits. This is also where all the spell flexibility really matters - a standard loadout does well at lower levels.

Also prone to 15 minute adventuring days, but I never saw this as a very big problem. Spend one day scrying, the next fighting with an optimized spell loadout.

At lower levels you have... basically nothing. No arcane reserve, very few spells per day, no interesting exploits unless you gimp yourself for later by picking up the new arcane school stuff that doesn't cost any arcane reservoir.

Positive changes: That you can get the wizards level 1 school powers means and that these do not cost any arcane pool means you can get low-level non-spell blasts to make up for your low spells/day. The drawback of course is that these very quickly become obsolete. Simply removing the cost of the blast exploits would have been better, but still a sub-par option.

Some things have become clearer.

Proposed further changes: Larger initial arcane reservoir, possibly harder to recharge. Perhaps having it start at Int mod + Cha mod and not grow over levels.


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I see the war priest as being targeted at the player who would play a crusader cleric, but gets bored having to spend rounds out of combat buffing. For a limited buff/melee class, buffing just takes too long if it has to be done before combat. The cleric and bard are buffer primary. They too suffers from this, but at least their buffs are powerful enough to turn a battle more or less on their own.

I see a role for the war priest as the melee buffers whose buffs do not keep them out of combat. That is, the warpriest is a weaker spellcaster than the cleric, but their buff spells should all be swift actions, which means they can be used in melee, taking no actions and provoking no AoOs. The limit on one swift/round still keeps down the total volume of buffs cast, and the slower spell progression limits the strength of the buffs. If the warpriest opts to stay back and spend a standard action buffing, he can get two spells off in one round, but for a decent combatant this truly is a sacrifice. Having the cleric spell list, the war priest gets a lot of team buffs and a few individual buffs, which plays into this role. Spells that require an attack roll or saving throw should not be swift actions.

Having this, the war priest doesn't need so many other impressive abilities.


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Much of the rest of the content in the book will be ways for other classes to "get their feet wet" by picking up abilities from the new classes in this book.

Somewhat OT, but this might mean the arcanist immediate action counterspell might be available to other classes too?


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I think something similar to the bard's Inspire Greatness would be a good place for the skald to be. Increase effective level (including caster level), attack bonus, damage bonus, and temporary hit points. Still feels like a sort of rage, and everyone benefits from it, some more than others, but temporary hit points are nice for everyone.

Just have to get around the Inspire Greatness cycling bards can do, granting new temporary hit points each round.


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Kobash wrote:
Malkov: I see what you're getting at, and it's an interesting build (cavalier-swashbucklers mesh nicely), but I think it steps away from what we're trying to explore here, which is an undipped swashbuckler. Can you build a level 6 strength-based straight up version that isn't a dwarf using a pick?

We're finding holes in the swashbuckler. If the class works better by dipping and putting points into no-trope stats, that is a hole.


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Prince of Knives wrote:
Full casters are 'broken' because they have the unrivaled ability to fundamentally alter how the game is played. It can happen on purpose, and it can happen on accident, but however it happens there's always the chance that having someone with 9th-level casting in the party is going to change the tone and even genre of the story being told.

This is a GM/playstyle issue. Even at level 20, I find that skills are the main source of utility in 3E/Pathfinder. A spellcaster can turn a situation on it's head, but without knowing what he is doing - information typically provided by skills - this is just pointless confusion.

It is also very much an issue of magic items. In a low-items game, casters will dominate because they are the only ones with access to the supernatural. In a high-budget game, many spells just turn into lesser version (particularly shorter-lasting) of a magic item.

You say later in this post that it is hard to surprise a high-level caster. In broad terms perhaps, but on specifics, it is quite easy. There simply are no divination that give detailed information on encounters. Scrying gives a short-duration snapshot and often yields nothing more than "a guard on patrol". And even if the scrying does give information, it is often noticed, which loses some of the element of surprise. The higher level spells are generally wider in scope but less in detail.

If a GM lets the caster dominate information-gathering too much, perhaps he is giving the caster too big a time slice. Against a caster who insists on divining everything in detail, I'd feel perfectly fine with saying "You spend time casting X. Make a Spellcraft check to see how well that went" and then not play it out in more detail than giving a hint or two based on the roll.

And for an arcanist, spending many spell slots on divination leaves them with basically nothing for anything else.

Davick wrote:
Perhaps a better analogy is the architect vs the engineer. The wizard is the architect who studies design and engineering and uses that to create new structures or models that can push the boundaries of what we thought capable.

I guess most of us think the Pathfinder setting is more renaissance than modern. And back then, the sum of all knowledge was such that a single person could have a good sense of most of it. That is why we talk of renaissance men and exalt the great names from this time. Today the sum of all knowledge is such that even a genius can only grasp a little bit of it. Not so in heroic fantasy.

Arcanists are the renaissance men of magic, wizards are the scientists/engineers, and sorcerers the end users or battlefield specialists.


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How about just buying some extra armor proficiency to up the defenses of the swashbuckler (or dip into, say, paladin). There are exactly 2 abilities the swashbuckler loses by wearing more than light armor - Opportune parry (questionable) and Nimble (very good at higher levels, not so good at low levels). This is a workaround for strengthbucklers which makes the strength build even more attractive.


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Drachasor wrote:
Do the damaging exploits really need to cost anything?[...]

I agree the rays don't need to cost points from your pool, but I still feel you must choose them as your exploits. Having them be all free would make the wizard's and sorcerer's similar low-level "free" abilities seem too lacklustre. But the idea to be able to fire an unlimited number of poor elemental attack on the round when you don't cast a spell works out for me. It does indeed make up for the low number of spells per day.

Then again, these "free" attacks on the sorc and wiz could use some buffing too. Not that this is on the table.


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This is not a class for a familiar. Wizards are scholars, these guys are engineers... Scholars have cats and dogs, engineers have... gold fish maybe? :o


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mplindustries wrote:
Immediate Action counterspelling should already be how it works, and all of the caster level bonuses you're talking about are just as easily and commonly employed by the caster, so it's not as big a deal as you're suggesting.

With this as a class ability, it is possible that other casters will get some sort of feat based immediate action counterspelling. Once the genie is out of the bottle, maybe everyone will get it.


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Lormyr wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Counterspell is a Supernatural ability that Jason said is a standard action. The Immediate action is casting the magical energies to counter it. So you end up wasting 2 resources (1 point and a spell level) to do an anytime counterspell. At higher levels you only have to use a spell level. So you it is not really an immediate counterspell.
Interesting interpretation. The wording could certainly be clearer. If your understanding is correct, then this ability is fine as is.

I don't agree with brad2411 - I feel counterpelling uses only the immediate action. Considering you need to both ID the spell and then win a dispel check, I think the ability is ok as is.


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RJGrady wrote:
Is there some reason a swashbuckler should NOT edge out a vanilla fighter in damage output? They have light armor, limited resources for their class abilities, and (nobody how the cat falls, this is likely) an odd weapon selection. They ought to get something.

Agre, especially considering that precision damage won't always work and all their attacks are piercing vs. damage resistance (well, there is always the not so very thematic morning star).

Bribri wrote:
1-The character CAN exceed his starting Panache during the course of an encounter up to twice his default amount (including the bonus from feats such as extra grit). At the end of the encounter if his Panache exceeds the default amount it resets to the default and all excess is lost.

This is interesting. It encourages a laid-back style where you build panache and then lash out viciously. I quite like it.

The current rules encourage you to spend points early so you can refill. This is nice, and alpha strikes are always valuable, but perhaps not thematic sinc swashbucklers are often seen as cool people who open up by feeling their opponent out.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Hey Stephen, did you guys intend for Precise Strike to be negated by concealment?
Yup, the other bane of the rogue class.

This is something about the rogue that I HATE (and immediately house-ruled IMC). A rogue has to avoid being in dark alleys, becasue in the dim light in there, they can't sneak attack!

* Facepalm!


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:
As to why scribe scroll: because skalds are recorders of lore, and in a magical world they'd use their lorekeeping for magic as well.

While I do like the class, as a Scandinavian, I don't feel the skald really has a nordic/viking feel. It is more of a celtic thing to have music on the battlefield, or Turk if you prefer (was recently in Istambul listening to Turk battle music). In nordic tradition, the berserker and the skald stood for opposite cultural traits. Berserkers are mentioned in the sagas as monsters that everyone was afraid of, and which it takes a cool and experienced hero to deal with. Skalds were chroniclers and law-speakers and opposed to barbarism - which didn't stop them from going viking of course. And the stories certainly kept old feuds alive, and thus kept up battle-lust in a larger time frame. "Civilized" is a very relative term here.

Now, Pathfinder is fantasy. Having a viking-esque battle-singer is fantasy and can fit. But trying to use nordic models for what a skald is, what weapons it should use and so on, might be misleading.


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Malwing wrote:
Starfox wrote:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Yeah, I'm beginning to think that the bloodrager needs its own spell list or there needs to be a better way to organize his spells.
If there's a problem with the magus spell list taken only to level 4 and without cantrips, one fix is to use the magus spell progression for the bloodrager - that would probably mean 3/4 bab too. The bloodrager would then become a barbarian/Sorcerer built on a magus chassis.
I thought we might get a Raging Bloodline Magus. If that doesn't eventually happen I totally need to homebrew that, it sounds awesome once I typed it out. I'm calling it a Ragemorph.

Been there, done that :o

Another solution to the cantrip problem:

Cantrips: At level 1, 2, 4, and 13 (arbitary numbers), a bloodrager learns one cantrip taken from the list of zero-level magus spells. These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.


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Lin Kuei (literally forest demons) are legendary Chinese stealth warriors. Here, it is a monk archetype with ninja-like techniques and a focus on secret fighting techniques. Not as pure of spirit as a normal monk, lin kuei are secret warriors working for a clan or cause and like monks they are all of lawful alignment.

Class
Primary Class: Monk. Secondary Class: Ninja. The lin kuei has all the monk's class features except as noted here. A lin kuei cannot mulitclass as a monk, ninja, or rogue. Rogue multiclassing is prohibited because the ninja is a subclass of the rogue.

Spoiler:

Class Skills
The lin kuei's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon Proficiency
Lin kuei are proficient with the cestus, club, dagger, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, short sword, and shuriken. Many lin kuei take up the study of an exotic weapon to gain maximum benefit from their lethal strikes ability.

Bonus Feats
At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a lin kuei may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list: Bludgeoneer[1], Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Distance Thrower[1], Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Nimble Moves[2], Scorpion Style, Throw Anything.
Alternatively, a lin kuei can choose a ninja trick instead of a bonus feat each time he would get a bonus feat. He learns and uses ninja tricks as a ninja of his lin kuei level but cannot pick ninja tricks based on ninja class abilities he does not have, such as sneak attack.
At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Close Quarter's Thrower[1], Gorgon's Fist, Greater Feint, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Mobility, Rapid Shot, Snatch Arrows.
At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Dimensional Agility[1], Dimensional Assault[1], Disengaging Flourish[1], False Opening[1], Medusa's Wrath, Light Step[2], Shoot On The Run, Stunning Fist.
1. ^ a b c d e f g From Ultimate Combat.
2. ^ a b From Advanced Player's Guide.
A lin kuei need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them, but some feats have benefits based on the use of other feats, and these rules still apply.

Lethal Strikes
As he advances in level, a lin kuei gains extra damage with melee and thrown attacks. This extra damage begins at 1d6 at 1st level, and advances by another d6 at level 3 and every third level after level 3, to a maximum of 7d6 at level 18. When the lin kuei strikes an opponent that is unable to use his Dexterity bonus to armor class, he can add the full amount of this to his damage. When striking opponent's in other circumstances, he adds the minimum amount possible, as if all the lethal strike dice came up ones. This extra damage is not multiplied on a critical hit.
This replaces flurry of blows.

Secret Technique
The lin kuei have a number of secret techniques. A lin kuei is taught one secret technique from the list below at first level, and gain more secret techniques as he advances in level.
This replaces stunning fist. A lin kuei that takes the Stunning Fist feat but does not know the stunning fist technique does not count lin kuei levels as Monk levels for the benefits of the feat.

Deceptive Moves (Ex): A lin kuei with this technique can use the Bluff skill to feint as a swift action.

Deceptive Shuriken (Ex): As a part of drawing or picking up one or more shuriken, a lin kuei with this technique can make a Sleight of Hand check against a DC of 10 + an opponent's Perception skill bonus to render one opponent flat-footed against his thrown shuriken this round. An opponent with uncanny dodge or who is otherwise immune to being flat-footed is immune to this ability, and repeated uses against the same opponent suffers a -10 penalty. A lin kuei with this ability can also throw Diminutive objects, including small daggers, darts, bolts, arrows and even objects that that are normally harmless (such as playing cards, dice, pebbles, coins) as if they were shuriken. A lin kuei can pick up such objects within reach as a free action that does not trigger an attack of opportunity.

Lethal Flanking (Ex): When you flank an opponent in melee, you can use your full damage from lethal strikes against that opponent. Against opponent's improved uncanny dodge, this ability works when sneak attack would work (see the ninja ability sneak attack). Lin kuei levels stack with the level of any class that provides sneak attack for the purpose of overcoming improved uncanny dodge.

Stunning Fist (Ex): This is the same as the monk's stunning fist class ability. See the note under secret technique for Stunning Fist taken as a feat and used without this ability.

Sudden Charge (Ex): This charge is so sudden that it is hard for the eye to follow. The target charged by a lin kuei with this technique is flat-footed until the end of the lin kuei's current turn. An opponent with uncanny dodge or who is otherwise immune to being flat-footed is immune to this ability. A lin kuei may continue to move after attacking in a charge, up to a total movement equal to twice his speed. Any movement after the charge is completed need not be in a straight line. If this movement ends up in cover or concealment, the lin kuei can try to use Stealth to hide at a -10 penalty.

Note that a flat-footed opponent does not get to make attacks of opportunity unless the opponent has the Combat Reflexes feat.

Unarmed Strike
At 1st level, a lin kuei gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A lin kuei's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a lin kuei may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a lin kuei striking unarmed. A lin kuei may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
A lin kuei's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
A lin kue's unarmed strike does 1d6 lethal crushing and cutting damage (1d4 for a small lin kuei). A lin kuei can only do nonlethal damage with unarmed attack by taking the standard -4 attack penalty to do so.
This is a modification to the monk's unarmed strike ability.

Second Secret Technique
At 3rd level, the lin kuei may select a second secret technique. This replaces maneuver training.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
Starting at 3rd level, a lin kuei can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A lin kuei with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her.
If a lin kuei already possesses uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.
This replaces still mind.

Ki pool
At 4th level, a lin kuei gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in a lin kuei's ki pool is equal to 1/2 his lin kuei level + his Wisdom modifier. As long as he has at least 1 point in his ki pool, he can make a ki strike.
• At 4th level, ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
• At 7th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as cold iron and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
• At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
• At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness.
By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a lin kuei can do one of the following:
• Make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a full attack, or
• Increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round, or
• Reroll a failed Bluff, Sleight of Hand, or Stealth check. The lin kuei must take the second result, even if it is worse. A single check can only be rerolled once by means of this ability.
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.
This is the a modification of the monk's ki pool ability.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
At 7th level, a lin kuei can no longer be flanked. This defense denies the ability to sneak attack the lin kuei by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more levels in classes with sneak attack than the lin kuei has in classes with uncanny dodge.
This replaces wholeness of body.

Third Secret Technique
At 9th level, a lin kuei may select a third secret technique. This replaces improved evasion.

Fourth Secret Technique
At 13th level, a lin kuei may select a fourth secret technique. This replaces diamond soul.

Table: Lin Kuei

Spoiler:

Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Lethal Strikes AC Bonus Fast Movement
1st +0 +2 +2 +2 Bonus feat, lethal strikes, secret technique, unarmed strike +1d6 +0 +0 ft.
2nd +1 +3 +3 +3 Bonus feat, evasion +1d6 +0 +0 ft.
3rd +2 +3 +3 +3 Fast movement, second secret technique, uncanny dodge +2d6 +0 +10 ft.
4th +3 +4 +4 +4 Ki pool (magic), slow fall 20 ft. +2d6 +1 +10 ft.
5th +3 +4 +4 +4 High jump, purity of body +2d6 +1 +10 ft.
6th +4 +5 +5 +5 Bonus feat, slow fall 30 ft. +3d6 +1 +20 ft.
7th +5 +5 +5 +5 Improved uncanny dodge, ki pool (cold iron/silver) +3d6 +1 +20 ft.
8th +6/+1 +6 +6 +6 Slow fall 40 ft. +3d6 +2 +20 ft.
9th +6/+1 +6 +6 +6 Third secret thechnique +4d6 +2 +30 ft.
10th +7/+2 +7 +7 +7 Bonus feat, Ki pool (lawful), slow fall 50 ft. +4d6 +2 +30 ft.
11th +8/+3 +7 +7 +7 Diamond body +4d6 +2 +30 ft.
12th +9/+4 +8 +8 +8 Abundant step, slow fall 60 ft. +5d6 +3 +40 ft.
13th +9/+4 +8 +8 +8 Fourth secret technique +5d6 +3 +40 ft.
14th +10/+5 +9 +9 +9 Bonus feat, slow fall 70 ft. +5d6 +3 +40 ft.
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +9 +9 Quivering palm +6d6 +3 +50 ft.
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +10 Ki pool (adamantine), slow fall 80 ft. +6d6 +4 +50 ft.
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +10 Timeless body, tounge of the sun and moon +6d6 +4 +50 ft.
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +11 Bonus feat, slow fall 90 ft. +7d6 +4 +60 ft.
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +11 Empty body +7d6 +4 +60 ft.
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +12 Perfect self, slow fall any distance +7d6 +5 +60 ft.

I originally wrote on a mediawiki, so when we get closer to finished I can send it in wiki code.


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Bardess wrote:
If I can't have my true shapeshifter class otherwise, I'll make it myself.

It is not MAC, and thus not applicable for this project, but you might want to look at my Shape Dancer AT for the summoner or Shapeshifter Bloodline for the sorcerer as takes on a shapeshifters for pathfinder.


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Quote:
Arcane Training: An arcane assertor learns to manipulate arcane energies. Starting at 1st level, an arcane assertor adds one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to the inquisitor spell list. This spell must be of a level that she can cast. At 3rd level and every two levels thereafter, she can add one additional spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to her list. To cast any of these spells, she must know the spell as normal.

I would replace the last sentence with "To cast any of these spells, she must first pick them as one of her known spells".

"know the spell as normal" is clear if you know what this is all about, but still a bit unclear.

Do we need to mention that even without making it a known spell, she can use it will spell trigger and spell completion items?

Quote:
Detect Magic (Sp): At will, an arcane assertor can use detect magic, as the spell. An arcane assertor can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is magical, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the arcane venator does not detect magic in any other object or individual within range. This ability replaces detect alignment.

Missed one "venator" at the end of this text.

I also worry a little about locking down the concept of the class too hard - this could also be a fanatic, using the powers of sorcery to hunt down sorcerers. I'd remove "trained" in the intro and push the haphazard nature of sorcery.


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The Creepy Two Gun Build:

Would the tiefling alternate racial tail prehensile tail allow reloading two pistols? It's even sort of thematic.

Prehensile Tail Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This is my reading: We Jas might not be good, but she is lawful. And it is in her role as a lawful protector of the people that she led Sasserine to, well, Sasserine. She has a vested interest in her supporters. In the original Greyhawk her followers were most likely Suel fleeing their Oerdian enemies (these are both human peoples). Sasserine proved to be a far-enough-away place of refuge.

I don't know Nyx very much, but she seems somewhat sociapathic from your description. If saving her followers from persecution is not enough of a goal to her, maybe she's not such a good match and she should be replaced by some more lawful diety?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Map and description of Turtleback Ferry.

This was made by one of my players for use IMC. In our campaign his character is now the baroness of Hook Mountain, and the big house (#1 on the map) is her new residence. The rest of the town is basically as described in the scenario. Kevin is now her henchman and cook. We played this in 4E, if that is somehow relevant.

The map is a patchwork made from cutouts from the map of Sandpoint. Credit for this original map goes to Pazio's artists.


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