Scott Betts wrote:GreyWolfLord wrote:You have a guy who blogged a post similar to those posted by people part of racist organizations (most notably stormfront...though you could probably find similar items on Arian Nations, KKK, or other racist sites)
It has some questionable elements, and people are rightly saying that they disagree with those elements.Quote:and people all over this thread are posting their support for it.
No, they aren't. At the most, they're saying that they understand some of Correia's points and that they disagree with George.Quote:Then again, racist people almost never consider themselves racist
Which makes it okay for you to accuse anyone who doesn't meet your personal standards of zealotry of supporting racism, right?Quote:In regards to racism this is basically, white=right and minority and anyone else are wrong.I don't see anyone, anywhere in this thread stating or even implying that.
This is a very interesting thing for people to note. There IS discriminatory posts in this thread that are derogatory towards some minorities.
I imagine this could be a good test. Most minorities probably can see it...and those who have experienced it could as well.
Oh there are racist things here. You can't see them, but they are there... Point them out or don't make the claim.
Those who deny it...perhaps there should be a re-examination of how you view the world.
I do. Constantly. I think your definition of racism is ridiculous, unworkable, and can be used to claim anything is racist.
On another subject.
Latino is an Ethnicity. There IS a difference. This is why you can be white, and still be a Latino. Without actually identifying a race...and when you appear to be white...and seeing a majority of Latinos/Hispanics consider themselves white...well.
Now, the ethnicity is considered a minority. It can also be discriminated against, but being discriminated against does not make you a PoC by any means (unless you are suddenly considering every LGBT individual as a PoC...which they are not). Some of the worst discrimination in the world has been with Ethnic cleansing.
However, ethnicity and race are two separate and different things in the US. You can be Hispanic as your ethnicity, as well as being a member of any race you are a member of also. The majority (just like the majority in the US) according to the Census right now, are White Hispanics.
They can mark anything else on the Census if they so desire, they can mark it on the job applications and the social dynamic surveys. They can self identify as any race they want. When they simply say they are Hispanic or Latino though...the default is basically white. If they were Hispanic African American, they'd probably mention they were African American (as well as it probably being rather obvious as well).
They can do that for any other race as well.
Ethnic discrimination can be equally bad as racial discrimination. I won't argue that at all...however the guy was discussing racial discrimination and dismissing it out of hand.
Making the statement that Hispanics are PoC is not disingenuous. Sure, it may not be technically correct, but the vast majority of people I am willing to bet do not consider it to be. I know until your posts I have never heard of someone using the term to not include Hispanics or Latinos.
Also, every federal form I have seen treats Hispanics as a separate race. It is right there along with white (not Hispanic). I have yet to fill out a census form, but a lot of other documentation requires/asks for it it, like every job interview I have been on. I have never seen ethnicity asked.
I have never been to GenCon, but I have been around Gamers long enough to know that there is discrimination among them. I've learned to accept it. I can see it from people in this thread.
I have seen them move tables, sit on different rows, go to different chairs. I have seen a friend, a lone African American sitting alone (until I sat next to him) at a meeting where every other row had a bunch of people sitting there, but every seat in his row was empty...with him basically isolated. I don't think that was on purpose...but they simply felt they couldn't relate to him and hence sat with those they could relate...that is actually a form of racism in my eyes.
With these indications, if that happens to Asian guys at Gencon, where they sit alone while everyone else gathers in their groups...I could see how one could perceive racism. I know that there are women out there that warn against going to GenCon (or any other Con for that matter) due to what they consider harassment (whether it is or not, I don't know, just that I've heard the warnings).
Or it is because he didn't really know people there and most people come to events in groups that try to find a place by themselves. Have you ever actually watched a space like this fill? People don't like sitting near people they don't know. Skin color may have been a factor, but claiming racism from seeing the seating arrangements of a group of random people once is ridiculous without support.
As I said earlier, CRPGs is a booming business and you have TONS of every type of person from every race in those. They are RPGs, even if we don't see them as such...and we can see that RPGs DO appeal to people of every race and gender and orientation.
CRPGs can be just as expensive as a PHB (sometimes more expensive, typical new CRPG is $60 USD), and MMORPGs can be even more than that.
Saying it's because it's a middle class thing and that's why TTRPGs are primarily white males is ALSO rather discriminating...it's NOT because it's a middle class thing any more than CRPGs are a middle class thing as far as money is concerned.
Or it is because people get exposed to video games in different ways than they get exposed to TTRPGs. You can go into a video game store to buy Call of Duty and be exposed to Skyrim. Relatives go into video games stores and buy random stuff all the time. Video gaming is a well known hobby relatives will get as gifts. TTRPGs are sold in specialty stores you have to know about before waking in to, and unless a relative is also a gamer, they will have no idea to buy you it for Christmas. Not to mention a single video game can easily have the budget of the entire TTRPG anual market, so they can spend a lot more on advertising.
You don't need friends to enjoy a CRPG. You don't need to convince them to play with you. There are different social stigmas against spending your time alone on a video game than getting friends together to play a social game. Different communities in the US have different social stigmas, and those communities can have heavy racial bias. Those stigmas can prevent people from even asking their friends if they want to try a game with as much negative connotation as D&D has. I know in high school I didn't even want to admit to anyone outside my gaming group that I played D&D, and I was a textbook nerd. How hard can it be for someone who is black to bring it up with a group he feels may judge him for wanting to play something with a "white" stigma, I can only imagine. But I have read and talked too far too many black people whom have said the backlash they received for playing games was worse or at least on par in the black community than the lack of fitting in they felt in the gamer community, because of the huge stigma against "acting white".
From the parts Correia quoted, a large amount of it dealt with this issue of not fitting in among those who are not the same race. Correia tried to mock it...but in truth, this is a VERY serious thing...and something that I could completely see happening at Gen Con (never been there, don't know, but from what I've seen from gamers elsewhere, they tend to congregate with what they know and feel comfortable with, someone different, an LGBT or perhaps minorities...sometimes they won't feel like that).
That in and of itself may not be racism....trying to cover up and blame the minorities for it...that's crossing the line into racism (or prejudice and discrimination when against other minorities such as LGBT, or even with women who aren't quite a minority, but equally discriminated against at times).
People feel uncomfortable outside of their culture all the time. I went to a Motley Crew concert the other night and was highly uncomfortable because I don't have a mullet, wasn't wearing a wifebeater, and turned down the guy offering me shrooms. It's not the fault of a new community if you don't feel like you fit in. Everyone doesn't fit in somewhere, no matter how welcoming the community thinks it is.
Additionally, Correia mocked him for bringing up his high school hangups and projecting them on the convention attendees, and for implying that somehow all of his teenage angst was related to racial discrimination. Every teen has angst. That entire section, in context, was quite mockable.