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General Gorstav

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Hello! I searched, and saw some things on the topic, but nothing clearly definitive.

I just wanted to get some clarification on how the goblin cleaver feat interacts with a fighter with greater cleave.

Feats character has;

Power Attack
goblin cleaver
cleaving finish
greater cleave
improved cleaving finish

with these feats can I; greater cleave every sized small creature i threaten? (Seems like a yes, according to goblin cleaver + great cleave)

do i get to interrupt my cleave attacks with the improved cleaving finish if i drop one? (i.e. cleave goblin A - drop him- improved cleave finish goblin b, use next greater cleave attack on goblin b -drop him- use improved cleaving finish on goblin C, and great cleave into goblin C?

All the while ignoring the adjacent clause of cleave and great cleave due to meeting the prereqs of goblin cleaver? (cleaving enemies smaller than myself)

Is there anything stopping me from using improved cleaving finish to waterfall effects? It seems I could really just pick any target as long as in my reach, attack it with greater cleave (once per round) and then if i drop anything improved cleave finish.

Can i use my improved cleave finish multiple times on same opponent? (use greater cleave on target a, drop target a, improved cleave B, greater cleave C -drop C- improved cleave finish B again?

I have seen "bag of rats" mentioned, and would not be cleaving rats to get number of attacks on one guy tho.

Sorry if this seems a little rambling, but I hope you get the gist of my ideas on the subject.


I have a couple of questions on how these rules interact, and my search function is failing me.

If an evangelist cleric takes a level of sensei monk, would those levels stack for inspiring courage effects? Or would the evangelist cleric levels and monk level not stack?

I beleive no as neither makes a mention of stacking with bard, or any other classes.

Also, can an evangelist cleric use his free action to maintain his inspire courage ability and cast spells with audible components?

I was having a hard time finding confirmation on this last one.

Gauss wrote:
Yes, the Wizard can provide the feat (Scribe Scroll) and the Cleric provide the spell. The feat Cooperative Crafting is not required.

It seems like it would be. Why does the Cooperative Crafting feat exist? Just to shorten the time of magic item creation?


Our group is running the relatively new reprint in Pathfinder rules.

I am a player, and we wanted to know the assumptions made about the player characters.

The only books our GM has allowed is core and APG.

Also we are at 15pt buy.

We are getting trounced...badly. There is only one original member of the group left. We have five players. I'm on my 4th character, so is another of my friends. The third player is on her second, same for the fourth player.

Is this adventure that hard? Is it supposed to be 15 pt buy?

We are all enjoying it immensly, but we did wonder what the assumption was for the baseline of the characters.

Also, the DM is not modifying encounters. He doesn't have time so he's running the books as is.

I did a conversion of this a while back, though nothing as nice. And I definitely did make the Mindbender just a straight bard.

It worked quite well.

The dragons were where I ended up sinking most of my time, and I believe the party was 1 level higher than the suggested levels, so in my conversion I bumped up every enemy by a level or so, also, I did enjoy bumping most the dragons to the next age category that made them just that much bigger.

It made the campaign feel even more epic.

Also, instead of using favored soul, I do see here in my notes that I made Havrek a battle Oracle. With his revelation to re-roll saves on the SoD or SoS spells, he was a force to be reckoned with.


Just looked over what you've done. I really like it. I did my conversion before the ACG, and Ultimate Combat, but I think bloodrager and specifically the Samurai choice for the blade bearer and berserkers is such an on point choice.

This is taken from the Magic Item creation section of the D20PFSRD

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. ((In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.))

I placed the parenthesizes over the relevant section.

Scrolls are spell completion items.

The Cooperative Crafting feat says that either one of the creators can satisfy the prerequisite so long as both have the relevant craft skill, or item creation feat. So, as long as the cleric has this feat, and craft Caligraphy, it looks legal to me since the cleric can satisfy the "know this spell" prerequisite.

Well, this prompted a google search.

Doesn't look like many people have experience swallowing super glue!

From a game perspective, I have always felt the cantrip "prestidigitation" was the ultimate fluff cantrip.

Want to walk into a tavern and have your ale swirl up to your lips from the cup like it was going through a crazy straw? Prestidigitation is your spell.

However, I have always felt the extensive wording of the spell could be summarized to mean "You can do cute, crazy, interesting and useful things with this spell, but it is strictly RP and flavor only. No game benefit can really be used with this spell."

So I don't agree with Prestidigitation being able to disguise the glue as something edible. I can't think of a spell off the top of my head, but I'd let the player get some alchemical item or magic scroll that could give them the effect they wanted.

The next issue is a glass of sovereign glue would be difficult to get a person to drink. The NPC would need to drink the glass of glue within six seconds, because once the glue is exposed to air, it begins setting. In according to the description, it is so sticky that if you do not nearly immediately pour salve of slipperiness into the bottle after pouring some glue, then the glue sets on the side of the bottle!

So, if the player does get the NPC to drink within 6 seconds, it could work, but it would be set within 6 seconds of air exposure, not just after it has been drunk.

Actually, this seems like the perfect use of the Suggestion spell. "Hey, take a drink of this fine amber whisky flask I have."

As for the solution of what would happen once the glue has actually been drunk,

I really like that solution kjdavies presented. It's DC is on par with other instant death poisons, and if you wanted to add a digestive secondary component in the longer term, that may not be a bad idea.

I'd allow it in my games. You can see the targets, you don't move through Difficult Terrain, and you move to the closest square you can attack him from in a straight line.

I don't see any other reasons as to why you should be disallowed.

That's true. It would be quite expensive, so that's the kicker.

If you're paying that much I guess it makes sense you get a little more bang for your buck.

I was unsure if it would actually come up in a game I'm running, but wanted to know the rules on the matter.

Thank you for your thoughts everyone.

A ranged magical weapon bestows the special properties it has on it's ammunition, and we use the higher of the two enhancement bonuses between ammo and ranged weapon.

I was curious if this could be used to bestow greater than +10 properties to some ammo.

Lets say you had a bow that was +1 Brilliant Energy, holy, and Shocking burst and flaming. (+10)

And then you have an arrow that is +5, Distance, Icy Burst, bane and seeking. (+10)

Does this allow the arrow to be fired at a total of more than +10 magical bonuses? The arrow would be at +5 enhancement plus all the other special abilities?

Thanks for the help friends.

Lots of good posts here.

To answer the OP, I would say that yes, you could selectively choose to lower your AC to receive an incoming bomb. Maybe instead of standing perfectly still to receive the bomb on the chin, couldn't it just as easily be explained as intentionally throwing a limb in the direction of the bomb at the last second?

In my game I would rule it as AC 10+environmental mods, i.e. cover etc.

I feel the strongest argument in support of this would be that people are not expected to dodge touch healing spells, why would a ranged heal be any different?

Especially since the Alchemist could just even have a code word with his friend, if more verisimilitude was required.

Also, earlier it was mentioned that various combat maneuvers could be used against your friends to gain benefits.

I believe that these are all strictly the purview of DM judgement.

I think all combat feat benefits can be turned off and on at will, but the nature of the rule must be preserved. To give an example, I'll use bullrush.

Normal bullrushing, an opponent does get an AOO, but if your friend is bullrushing you with your consent, then no AOO has to take place.

Now, the reason why a normal or improved Bullrush's movement does't provoke AOO is purely a game mechanic to make Greater Bullrush more rewarding and allow the feat chain to become more viable offensively. (Really, how much different would a rush be that it would provoke vs not provoke? Maybe this is a failure of my imagination.)

So in keeping with that spirit, I'd rule that yes if you are rushing your ally along, both of you would provoke AOO from your enemies. Improved Bullrush or Greater.

I cannot support clear reasons why in the rules this would be allowed, but it would in my mind it somehow preserves the balance.

That's why Pathfinder does not need exhaustive FAQs, or piles and piles of in play examples, balance is preserved by DM Fiat with a healthy dose of common sense.

The rule books get to be the reasonable size they are because we have a human brain to fill in the gaps.

Plus, I'd find it extremely entertaining to imagine just how these co-operative maneuvers would play out. You can flavor it in so many ways! The ally could be shoved out of the way, barely escaping harm, to a roaring warrior using the momentum of his ally's strong push to launch a devastating charge/pouncing attack. (not referencing the action or special ability here, just description.)

Thanks for reading.

Hello all!

My friends and I have started Rise of the Runelords anniversary edition.

It caps at lvl 18 if I am correct. I started out with a Cleric, but he's transforming into more of a Warrior Priest.

I've dubbed this build the "Paladin of Righteous Liberation" although there are no Paladin levels.

Any tips would be welcomed, but only APG and Core allowed, although I did convince my DM to let me use the unbreakable Archtype for fighters.

So, would like to keep it Core/APG as possible, but some things may be up for discussion.

I've already started the Character (lvl2 Cleric), so I cannot change his stats

15pt buy
Str 14
Dex 7 (took an arrow to the knee...classic.)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 17
Cha 13

Human (Varisian)

Lvl 1-3 Cleric of Desna, Luck and Liberation Domain
Feats: Combat Casting, Toughness

These two great domains give me bit of luck, and essentially freedom of movement. These will get much less useful later, but seem like situationaly could save myself from a sticky situation or make sure my friends succeed.
Plus I get 2nd level spells at the appropriate time which add some utility and useful abilites.I.e. the brief period where Shatter is useful, and some harmful status removal. 3rd level pick up power attack.

Dip into unbreakable fighter
For Diehard (seems useful for a guy who can heal himself), and to set up the final dip into fighter at the end.

2 levels of Drunken Brute / Invuln Rager Barbarian.
I'll be using heavy armor so i'm not worried about the fast move, and the damage reduction is great. I pick up the Moment of Clarity rage power so I can jump out of rage and cast a needed spell.
Pick up Alignment Channel to target evil outsiders.

Now I jump into Holy Vindicator for 4 levels. This keeps my BAB up, lends a little more spell casting and gives my channel a little utility in the form of extra AC. Stigmata provides a versatile bonus depending on what I need in a battle. The empower cure is nice too. I sm unsure if it works with wand castings, does it? I put my abil bonus into Con to qualify for raging vitality (more for the con bonus than anything) and also pick up Superstition (can drop if I need heals /buff with MoC) and extra rage power Roused anger in case I need to drop rage after moment of clarity and jump back in.

I jump back into cleric to get 4th level spells.

I hop back to barbarian and ride that to level 17, the feats I pick up along the way are extra rage, blind fight, extra rage power, and Dazing Assault. I pick the rage powers Good for what Ails you to make sure I stay in the fight, internal fortitude and increased Dmg reduction for max status and hit point protection.

Final level jump back to fighter to scoop up another bonus on my Will save on important effects, and my crowning feat stunning assault.

I plan to use a couple of buffs like Blessing of Fervor, Divine Power, and some of the lower ones. Also going to keep Instant Armor prepared so I can summon Force armor if I encounter any incorporeal creatures.
I plan to stick the rest as utility and status removal (leaving a slot open or two for max versatility.)

Thank you for reading, and please no spoilers (i.e. you should take these feats to prepare for X)

Where appropriate I pick up a stat boost in Con again, Wisdom, then Dex so each gives a better bonus.

I am of the opinion that the classic surprise - "skeleton in the corner suddenly animates and attacks!" can be thwarted with a well placed and focused detect magic.

Is there any thing in the rule that supports this?

I feel like undead are constantly radiating magic (necromancy).

Does any one have anything to support that this is or is not true to form?

Thanks for your time.

Actually, it has been my experience that AMEX USED to be the big culprit on fees, but now VISA is quite up there.

There is even a class action suit against VISA going on for violating anti-trust laws.

Here is a link, ants-to-assess-a-surcharge-on-credit-cards-2/

However this seems primarily for swipes, while Paizo strikes me as a primarily online retailer so it may not apply.

Oops. Missed that part *sigh*

Thanks so much.

Just looking at sundering and some special materials and had some questions... in particular alchemical silver items.

Alchemical silver has 8 hardness and 10 hp per inch of thickness.

Iron / Steel has 10 hardness and 30 hp per inch of thickness.

Does this mean that alchemical silver weapons would have harness 8 and 1/3 the hp of a normal weapon made of steel?

I.e. Normal longsword has 10 hardness and 5 hit points (1 handed blade's stats.) While one made of silver would have hardness 8 and 2 hp (rounded up?) Even further, a great sword with 10 hardness and 10 hp, vs silver great sword at 8 hardness and 3 hp (!!!!!)

Thanks guys!

Hello all! Not sure if this has been address yet, but Adimarus has improved sunder.

Since its very likely my PCs will be facing him next game, I was brushing up on the sundering rules. They almost all have alchemical silver weapons, which is great for them.

However, I was looking at the special materials rules, and Alchemical silver has Hardness 8 and 10 hp per inch of thickness.

Iron / Steel has 10 hardness and 30 hp per inch of thickness.

Does this mean that alchemical silver weapons would have harness 8 and 1/3 the hp of a normal weapon made of steel?

I.e. Normal longsword has 10 hardness and 5 hit points (1 handed blade's stats.) While one made of silver would have hardness 8 and 2 hp (rounded up?) Even further, a great sword with 10 hardness and 10 hp, vs silver great sword at 8 hardness and 3 hp (!!!!!)

Just submitting this as its for sure going to come up and if they cry foul, I would like to at least have peace of mind knowing it all happened "by the rules."


It also seems fitting in my mind as the heroes come brazenly toward him brandishing their silver blades that he snarls something akin to "Oh how nice, too bad they break so easily." Snapping a longsword with his first swipe. Seems like it'd really up his omg bamf werewolf boss quotient from "nice horns" to "OH MY GAWD!"

Thanks! I guess limiting seems a little harsh, but it does seem to be a too good to be true kinda spell if there are absolutely no risks associated with it.

Hmm, I'm liking the ideas. Thankyou so much.

I wouldn't see why not. Force is kind of like the "king" of all energy types. Hurts incorporeal creatures, bypasses DR, and there are no resistances to it, however no one is especially vulnerable except incorporeal creatures.....

Eh, long story short I would allow it.

Hello all,

Been running into a little problem at my home game. Namely the spell pyrotechnics. The wizard in the group has been casting it at the start of every battle and all party members have been saying "I close my eyes". Avoiding having to roll a will save.

It's not too bad, however most enemies fail and it has been making the encounters not fun for me personally as the GM, due to most enemies being blinded and a little useless. I don't mind if this is a viable tactic, however, I don't feel that necessarily it is the most fair or even if it is possible in the rules to "close your eyes" with out any penalty in combat.

Anyways guys, I'd be very interested to hear your feedback!

Well, this one may not be optimized, but I've been building it and it seems like a fun kinda build. I love skill points, so I put higher int, although it doesnt do much for the build.

He's also 15pt buy so there is room to make him even fightier.

Human Str 14 dex 17 (+2 racial) Con 12 Int 12 Wis 11 Cha 8

Arrange stats to liking, but build follows this.

1st lvl, Barbarian for +10 speed. Take point blank shot and precise shot.

Move and shoot until level 2

As you level up put skills in perception, acrobatics, stealth... but especially acrobatics to get outta tough situations.

2nd level and onward, take Mobile fighter archetype, with fighter bonus feats take things like deadly aim, weapon focus, weapon spec (longbow), vital strike, do not take rapid shot until you hit fighter ten also i threw disruptive shot in there somewhere for when a mage comes up (ready a vital strike +disruptive shot = caster shut down if you can hit them... seems great on paper, i dont know yet.)

With REGULAR feats, take fleet, almost every single time unless you need to up your saves or something like that. Also, when you hit eleventh level (bnb1 fgt10), skip fleet and grab many shot.

Level 12, you get the sweet 11th level mobile fighter feat, now you can choose to ready a vital strike on a caster, or move and drop alot of arrows, while no one can really catch up to you!

I like the idea, don't know if it works yet.

Awesome! Thank you for the speedy reply!

I can't find an errata or anything saying that you cannot use all the benefits of the mobile fighter archetype +archery. Am I correct in using this particular skirmisher combo?

Thanks for your help all...

For player characters or anyone who's gestalt

If it is too late to re-do the character, and non-core is not allowed, then disregard this post. However, if you can add an archetype and pick feats from other books, I would suggest the Unbreakable Fighter. Extremely tough, very hard to kill. Also, you can get the Stalwart feat, and the later ones branching off of it to gain 20DR every couple of rounds. It really fits the rugged "I will take anything you can dish out" theme.

Hello all, thanks for your time!

My current group is losing about 4 players, leaving us with 2 core members and 2 "on-off" members. Most likely we will have at max three players at a time.

I'm running Carrion Crown, and am thinking of making all PC's gestalt. Seems like it would really fix party balance, and give the PC's the extra oomph they need for the encounters.

My questions are what would you suggest for point buy, I am thinking bumping it up to 20 from our original 15. Secondly with NPCs, do you think the main ones should gestalt as well? Like BBEGs and such? And if you have done this before, I'd love to hear how it went for you!

Thanks everyone!

Well, could always introduce the words of power from UM. Allow them to switch between the two types of castings? It's quite a tough decision.

Maybe this has been asked before, but if you catch a vampire in the "geyser" stream from the decanter of E.W. would it begin to lose massive amounts of HP from being immersed in running water??

Thanks for helping guys.

An encounter I plan to use tonight has this, a large room with a grid like floor, about 10x10 holes, with 20ft wide walk ways. A flesh golem with a brain from UM. The brain gives him the feats for greater bull rushing. Create some appropriate animated object ballistae who have the ability to use awesome blow through their shots ( give them about 10 shots each) under the gridded floor, there is about a 60ft drop into chest high water.

A permanent anti magic field is in place enveloping lower level, in the water is swarms of zombied leeches. Make it easy enough to climb the rough hewn walls though, (dc 20, 15 for adequate handholds, +5 for slipperiness)and....a resetting shocking grasp gridded floor just to give the golem the staying power he needs. All in all, should be a good fight for them, especially if someone "flies" down to help his allies with their leech problem, or carry them up to safety! Ha!

Hi all! I'm creating a baddie, an Ogre Mage Sorcerer in particular.

I came across the spell skinsend in ultimate magic and was curious how you guys would rule this.

First, you can only regenerate health through regeneration abilities (including the Ogre Mage's ) but, if your skin regenerates on your body, the skin you sent out through the spell dies. Would you rule this that it happens at full HP for the O.M.? Or, would you say the spell is essentially useless for him because as soon as that 5 hp ticks up, his skin "dies." Can you suppress regeneration without harming yourself?

Next question on this is that, the O.M. is a shapechanger, could he alter himself into say, an orc, and then loose (yes, loose) his skin upon the world? My intention is that the skin would look orc-y not revert to his O.M. look. (I feel like there is a rule somewhere when a body part is taken off your body, it reverts to original size and shape if you were under a polymorph spell) So, input would be appreciated. =)

Well, I'd be down to play. =D So now...we need 2 more people?

Basically be able to use IH stuff in a PF game. I'm curious if it's been solved already? Like, if anyone's tried, seen any major pitfalls, stuff like that.

Right now I'm still working on reading the IH rules in their entirety so don't have too much work done, but the ideas have me hooked!

Ok, first curious if anyone has melded PF and Iron Heroes together, or if has any tips on doing so... Secondly, if I were to meld them together and post it on this board, would it be stepping on Intel. Prop rights, and the like?

Was this Errata'd? I thought the Skeletal Champion was +2 to CR?

So... Tiefling Skel. Champion Fighter 8 would be CR 9 no? (7 original CR, +2)

Actually, I would just go Maneuver Master Monk the whole way...Bull Rush! Bull Rush! Trip! Just Seems right! =)

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Obscuring Mist on yourself while enemy is a decent space away, Create Pit right behind you. Leap backwards over pit, taunting bad guy. He moves to attack, falls, arguably with no save.

Ok, interesting situation guys, a goblin with a Stealth check of 32 is hiding in a room, PCs enter, and call "We take 20 on our perception check to search it!" Highest possible perception is 27.

Would you allow the high stealth score to matter? Or does the goblin get a chance to sneak away with out the PCs knowing, i.e. slips out a closet and tip toes out while the PCs examine a few dust bunnies.

Or, do you believe if a person takes 20 on a perception check, eventually the nature of the searching "examining every nook and cranny" will turn up the little gobbo?

I could go either way, so just looking for some fresh points of view.

Ah, well thankyou! I will most likely be shying away from expensive programs. =P (now if i can just figure out how to draw on other parts in gimp after stroking a path....sounds oddly dirty.)

Anyone know any good map making programs? Seems easier than tons of graph paper.

Roleplaying wise, the idea is pretty awesome. If you have a decent DM who isn't all about messing over PCs, this is still a very playable character.

My suggestion to the above is that he doesn't enjoy the game as much as you do. This is hard to swallow sometimes, and people will just play to hang out, or get out the house.

Also, if you really think about it, you're investing so much into this person, but your not getting that same energy returned to you it seems, so I'd just drop it and let him do his own thing. I'd not even remind him when it's game day and see if he even shows. If he doesn't show, don't bother him about it, and just take it as is.

Ok, thanks Ghettowedge! If you had some info on the central NA meetup group i'd be greatly appreciative..

And Capt Kirstov, thank you as well! I dont really know much about PFS, but I will check it out. I will have to check out wonderland comics! There aren't many FLGS around anymore. Pretty much that's E and The whiz, but E's mostly 4th ed, not that there's anything wrong with that..

Which is arguably the level you need to be in PF to defeat a dragon of that size with help...

Hey, looking for Pathfinder group to join, or you could join us. We're in central MA, worcester area. Please post if you have an open group, or looking to join. Schedule is pretty flexible.

Hey, just wanted to say you're thread is awesome! I've really enjoyed the Oni you have created. Thank you for your hard work.

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Title pretty much says it all. If you have weapon focus on unarmed attack, do you think it would apply to grapple? Seems reasonable, but I'm not entirely sure.

Title pretty much says it all. I'm under the impression that if a creature with SR comes into contact with lets say, forceful hand, that the caster rolls to beat the creature's SR. If unsuccessful, the creature can safely ignore the hand and pretty much the hand cannot effect it. Is this the correct interpretation or am I misreading? Thanks guys!

This came up in another thread, and wanted the real formula on the cost...a sword that is NOT continuous use (because true strike continuous is kind of broken..)BUT, you could use it to cast a quickened True Strike every round. Figuring need a 5th level spell (Quickened True Strike) and caster level 9...but as for the rest, i'm not sure how to make a swift action and all that? If anyone can help me out, I'd really like to see how much it'd cost so I could give it to a PC. (First attack auto-hitting is something I'm comfortable giving, and I know they won't abuse CMB with it either, so I'm anxious when I could drop this in his hands.)

Its beyond hope for help. Sorry sir. =( Basically when this happens, its a well meaning DM, but ultimately it will just backfire. Its incredibly labor intensive to create encounters for PCs like this, and I beleive most people will echo me on that once you get rid of Wealth per level and certain lines are crossed, it ends up in a realm of pure entropic imagination....

Anyways to answer your immediate question, it is possible to hide if you have concealment, so yes, dark/smokey/mist would apply. And being invisible does grant sneak attack every attack. (I'm not sure about the blog play test rules however) Suggestions I have for fights are: Great Wyrm Dragons, with blind sense, (even if he's invis normally, or has concealment, it doesn't matter they can still attack and target him) but make sure they have a couple levels of barbarian or fighter to augment their strength and BAB to be able to hit him. (Don't forget to equip them with +5 mithral full plate and a slew of magical gear.) Other suggestions are demon (devil, qlippoth (sp?) and Daemon) lords with class levels, and a slew of the extra soupy special abils. Unfortunately when you have a player like this to really even the playing field you need a mastery of the rules to pick the cheesiest options to be a challenge.

Hey guys, wondering if anyone could point out a major flaw with this, but it seems to make sense to me.

RAW aiding another with the attack action is a melee only affair, but how "broken" do you guys think it would be if it could be used at ranged, with other ranged attacks.

i.e. 2 Archers aid a third, granting a +4 for the arrow to connect and do damage. I feel that this simulates a volley of arrows striking something vital as a hail rains down upon the target, maybe could roll a die to determine which arrow hit and did the damage if there were different amounts available.

Another point to just stress, no mixing and matching, meaning: No melee aiding a ranged and vice versa, seems that would be too much of a hassle and also since you are taking the time to not hit your friend in melee with a bolt to the back your missing out on the raw "multi-missle" effect that is the volley.

So if you guys have any questions, or could point out a gaping flaw in allowing this, I'd love to hear it!

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