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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 1,298 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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Has anyone translated this to Pathfinder? They were the mechanical basis to a few rival groups of campaign mages for the past dozen years. I would like an updated version or even a few more to use in the next incarnation of my world.

In my game, there was a LG rip-off of the Green Lantern Corps, a research oriented N group, a necromantic cabal of BBEGs and an elven preservation society. The researchers were a crappy 20 level 'Class', the others being PrCs with slightly altered mechanics (the elves could use theirs as a radio). The necromancers were the sinister foes in the past game and I would like to use them in the RotRL reskin I am running for some old players. One of the players used the PrC as the basis for an ithylid based bunch of nasties in his drow game.

Anyone with ideas is welcome to weigh in, especially if you have Complete Arcane or even just access.

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gustavo iglesias wrote:

I think I found the right reskin of the giants, and it's not even needed to go that far.

In Lost Kingdoms, when talking about Thassilonian Empire, they talk about Inverted Giants.
Mokmurian as a dark sorcerer, with an army of inverted giants, should work perfectly.

Just read up on them, horrific! I could make them undead with little effort.

Memorial Day:

Ran Sandpoint with waves of skeletons and other low end undead as the bad guys. I salted in a few that fell apart, yet still fought (think 'the Mummy'). Two players actually mounted up and caught several of the skeleton between them on the street. The bowman got upset that he wasn't death on a string against them. He did cap the necromancer in charge. The Cleric tapped out on channeling and had to grab his mace and shield. Ended with a wall fight between the Rogue and Fighter against an undead champion. All enjoyed themselves.

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Yeah, she is the primary PF deity on this, so I guess I can slip a lesser deity under one of the Good ones. I have two players that were a Cleric and Pally under 3.5 and at least one will likely ask which G deity is the replacement (I have had such a paragon since I switched to 3.0). Maybe one of the second string jokers...

Easivra looks good...

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Wow! Wander off and the thread explodes!

Calistra: page 30 of Inner Sea Gods, Anti-Paladin Code

My life is my path. None shall sway me from it.
I devote myself to the pursuit of my passions.
I take what I desire, by trick or by force. If others resent my actions, they may attempt to take vengeance against me.
All slights against me will be repaid tenfold.
I am the instrument of my own justice, if I am wronged.
I will take vengeance with my own hands.

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Much better than the piece of crap I tried. My $.02:

Gaze: This is the big one. In order to get the powerful attack down to a reasonable level, I made it a Slow effect at first, with feats and level bumps to increase DC, effect, duration, range and such.

Snake hair: The snake bit you used is well written (better than mine), but I had tribes based on the snake hair. I only used cotton mouths and rattlers. Poison was limited to 3 plus Con modifier (min 1). This represented the poisonous snakes with remaining poison being blocked in the mass attacks. We also penalized the DC by one for each attack.

Looking over your work, I like were you're going. There was a 3.0 3rd party book on medusas that may be of use. If I remember when I get home tonite, I'll raid it for you. Unless I go to sleep. Unless I can't find the book. Unless I can't ...

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As I sit here in traffic without a book, etc., I have a question: Is there a specific Inner Sea Gods deity that focuses more on the anti-Undead schick? I absolutely cannot remember one but I'm not the best on memory.

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Makeitstop wrote:
Ooh, I like the idea of a Brigadoon inspired people. And trade offs are fun, though I usually avoid them myself because of hard it can be to make them work well. It all sounds quite interesting.

It got started when one of my players brought the book to a game for a telst the next day. He caught a lot of ribbing, but the eventual result was a bs session about having an encounter of that type. The next night I was in a party stuck in a displcer beast and blink dog fight. Something clicked.

The 1980ish version phased in over time, leaving the residents semi-incorporeal during the process and 'real' for a random time. Getting caught when outsiders phase out could 'infect' you, while villagers that failed to get back faded. The group I was running were heavily into Romance novels and actively worked the lost love angle and glitched into the tragedy of their sidekick from the village getting left behind and fading away. I make it sound incidental, but it really dug deep into player psyches and made for a memorable night.

As for the village, everyone has some magic and life integrates it at every level. Remember that these are magic using peasants of weak education, not PCs. With only a few hundred adults, and tethered by their phasing, they were a minor threat at best and I used them as a plot device.

In 2002 (?), one of the old players wanted to play one as an innocent aboard and we hammered out the race. Gone was the Brigadoon background, for the most part, and reduced chance of phase death. I was trying to keep the racial adjustment down and bought Mythic Races about that time so I had a path to pretend to follow.

Now, they are on the race list for my game at 8 points extra.

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Well, I don't have them to hand at the moment, but they were victims of a spat between two high end mages. The village is unstable, shifting in and out of an accidental pocket dimension, think Brigadoon. Every one there is a born sorcerer(I need to craft just the right bloodline for this) and don't intreface to well with the 'real world'. I had a phasing in and out mechanic that never quite worked. They had to stay in the area of the village while young till they gained some control of the curse and boon of the effect. Able to concentrate, they could avoid critical confirmations, SA damage or Favored Enemy damage simply by phasing out a bit. Bonuses to saves and other Benefits were balanced by healing and negative HP problems, along with dissipating in our world. Feats for the race were designed to be a touch powerful, but carrying a nasty twist, ala witch's curses.

A Feat allowing walking on air also risked rapid disapation. Another allowed them to pierce other people's bodies for hth damage, but with the downside of both taking damage. One of my players came up with 'misting' a vampire like power, but with lots of disapation.

I didn't give them a bonus to Cha cuz that would be making them too powerful. No plus to a stat or skill point, they are country rustics after all.

The village is only a few hundred, but they age like elves and reproduce at half-ish the pace of humans. Those who wander pick up a lot of languages and most know several growing up. They are semi-literate, but love bards and travelers who visit the region were the effect is weaker.

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I was just made aware that I am often made to roll behind the screen. The original reason was 10 stirges nearly wiping a party of 5 level 4-5 characters, but last campaign one players claimed I was getting too many hits. After the next encounter, he was begging me to roll in secret (23 or 24 attacks of under 50 percent for 19 hits, 7 threats none better than 20 percent for 4 crits). Yeah, I was hot! Wish I could roll that way with my Cleric! Technically, it could be called cheating, but I hate TPKs.

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Being a math and detail impaired player and GM, I always let another player check and advise me on my character or have players check each other every few sessions. As for rules, I stick whoever griped the most last time. Initiative loot and player log all get passed out so I do NOT have to do it.

Having an above average IQ crew in my last two campaigns and another coming, my players often know the rules better than I and police each other. This caused a row a few years back, a Druid ability misunderstanding and stubbornness.

Beyond that, a GM can Fudge in order to advance the story, hand wave long actions that violate the 'fun' rule, etc. What he cannot do is play favorites or deny a player a chance to play their character. (There are more, but these are my current rants) I believe the story is the primary responsibility of the GM and he or she must see it that way. Second come lesser things like marking fire exits, peace bonding player weaponry (yes, we regularly play with more firearms than players with side orders of cutlery), polling players on house and table rules or running fights (usually run by players). I have racked my players on letting my screw up rules, etc. They have gotten to trolling for screw ups and keep me honest and on track with player oriented story lines. All are down with this and are very demanding of other players. They know that having me worry with details can derail a whole session, time none of us old farts has to waste on letting some idiot cheat.

Establishing an open character sheet and the frequent checking levels out cheaters while networking better characters. I am a much more effective 3.5 Cleric due to some of this a few years back. Heck, I raid these boards to all manner of ideas.

As for specific problems:
Hit Points should be standard for every one and thing
Abilities must be rolled in front of the GM and at least half the core players, but point buy is better. I don't mind, but I average better than a 35 point buy with best 3/4.
Dice are rolled in a clear fat glass in our games, or a dice tower (must face the GM). This became mandatory after dice scattered a vital melee. We have a female firefighter who can take any guy at the last table with no dissenting voices and that is her table rule.
Character sheets must be audited and red lined with errors (easy for a prior game, three teachers and a teaching professor). You'd be surprised how red marks upset 50 plus men!
Secret boons, aids, gimmes and such should be GM's eyes only and NEVER on a character sheet. I use index cards, numbered as I give them out and kept in a notebook no one gets to see. Yes, I give out false cards!
I try to talk to players between games, web being the best, primarily to get feedback but also to let problem players of all types have some guidance. An old school teleporting player (bouncing to the rear in every fight but at the front for the loot, but just outside the range of any trap, etc) is my most recent problem child.

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From Inner Sea Gods, Abadar (LN), Sarenrae (NG) and Shelyn (NG) are all non-LG deities with Paladins.

The Anti-paladin deities are Calistra(CG), Lamashtu (CE), Norgorber (NE), Rovagug (CE) and Urgathoa (NE).

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Just spotted this thread and will have to steal the ideas within.

In one of the local games, a giant incorporated them into murals in his lair, high enough that we runts could not reach them without effort. We never would have found them if I hadn't scaled the wall to search the 'chandelier' and set off a desperately needed CMW sigil !

A few rooms later, we found tapestries with similar enchantments and a levitation 'trap' carved into the bottom of a air shaft. Need to go back there and find where it goes.

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Having a varyingly desolidified race of originally npc sorcerers, I appreciate your take on the concept. I was hoping it would be closer to mine so I could or borrow a bit from it. While it doesn't really come close, I greatly appreciate you work and the fluff. Well thought out back stories are too often neglected in favor of a few spare paragraph entries. While these don't come close to the ones I'm working on, the magical disaster aspect has to be used for one of my 'ancients' races. Since several exist, no reason I can't make one Zindi.

Again, nice work!

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Never post without proof reading.

First, she wants a CG elf version that can smite via her bow. She has played the toe to toe Pally before and wants the other benefits of the class.

Second, I hadn't noticed there was a second archetype of the same name! Ack!

Third, my search skills are fighting against several penalties: taxi ride, ticket line, lack of skill with a iPhone plus, just to name the most annoying. I was looking for any possible errata or correction before I pass this to the players for their comments. I told her to find it before the next game and it might wind up as a Campaign Rule anyway.

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i am currently unable to access my books and got stumped on the Divine Hunter's weapons. The online resources I rely on do not mention any variance to the core Paladin, so I'm good with it. One of my players-to-be is insisting that she has seen something altering the core class. Personally, her arguments make sense, the plate and shield Pally just doesn't fit with the sneaking through the woods concept.

Is she right and my search skills stink or not. The thoughts of others will be helpful.

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If you're using one of the several time magic systems like I do, this can be used to affect aging or time effects such as Time Stop. I have a trait for some races, a feat availbule with onerous perquisites and a class featurè or three

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After getting mine last week, I met up with several local GMs (two played in my old 3.5 game) and we pooled our impressions and thoughts. There will be a lot of feat reworking to fit the Stamina rules.

Already in play, often for years:
Fractional BAB, etc: their text is much cleaner
Esoteric components: I use the HypertextD20 special component rules, so there will be cross pollenization. Most of the rest see it as a new treasure option
Wound thresholds: theirs is better, at least three others want to use it
Skill unlocks: had a similar system before 3.0, but this is much more refined and laid out for real use. Another with interest from more than just me

In, regardless of player objections:
Barbarian and Rogue: simplifies Barb, brings a weak Rogue up to viability
Disease and Poison: I argued against it, but everyone at the table said they like it and I often find they are more insightful on mechanics. Similar to one's system, but with more steps and details. The others have all played or run his and praise it.

Players decide:
Background Skills,staggered advancement and iterative attacks, with most of us liking, but wanting player input
Variant Multiclass: similar to a crappy system some have used before and rejected. This seems to have a cleaner crunchy bits and points the way to some campaign specific hybrid classes we each have. Only one hold out
Monster creation: a step by step how to build or modify? Count me in! But this might get too deranged so I want player input first. Only two of us ever modify monsters
Combat stamina: might just get people to play Fighters, all agree, though two have thi as a 'must'

Interested, but:
Alternate crafting: only if a player promises to master them in mine, 3-3 at the table to even think about it
Summoner: I like the concept, but every local group I've played with bans them, everyone agreeing to consider with about two dozen fears, warnings and conditionals.
Magic: I use the HypertextD20 system with mods and thefts from RRG's spell point rules (must get 2nd book!), so this could be useful with a better understanding. Also like automatic bonuses and a few other ideas as thought starters. Most are wary of modifying any magic rules, although one insists her game will use most of them. The rest called her the canary (in the coal mine) but are interested in what happens.

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A group I occasionally (board) game with had this kind of problem, always trying to get the 'new guy' to pull Rogue detail. Having 'Rogued' before, they grilled me during my last catastrophic Catan fiasco. My advice was to widen the range of skills allowed to Rogues, raid 3pp for options, understand the bluff and other ways to create SA opportunities and help the next new Rogue to more fully exploit the class' often bewildering array of RP and combat options. Currently the 'I only play Wizards' member has become the regular Rogue. He did watch me play my 15 year Rogue in a friend's 3.0 game (very intermittent game) and took notes. Lots of them.

A few months ago, Dragon Riders(?), with three core players from the group, griping about how overpowered the Pf Rogue is. I see it as someone actually knowing how to play an admittedly weak class in virtually everything scene the group is in. He also tends to hog the limelight, but now he isn't restricted by his daily spell slots.

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My Sandpoint scene and some of the Burnt Offerings is going to have several 'burning' undead types, harkening back to a fight I ran last summer on a burning galleon. The werewolf and Shadow adds will make nice diversions, can't let them get too focused and a visit to the Shadow Realms will do that for sure (my Shadows aren't always undead).

The Necronomicon! Dang! Wish I had thought of that as an ultimate goal! Ack!

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i may be running RotRL this summer for some new players (plus two old guard) that played it years ago. They are all built for Undead hunting and I have no problem switching out settings, but really need some thoughts on what undead to swap in for the first few modules. If they get past 3/6 I will be delighted. Maybe next Summer...

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My game is politically closer to mandarin China and doesn't have feudal style knighthoods. Orders are present and having bleed over from samurai and cavaliers would have to focus on their Order. Oddly, samurai would be ideal for the militaristic hobgoblin empire. If the challenge feature had something I could swap for both classes would benefit.

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Wishes are notorious for wrecking parties. A GM in the 80s bolluxed us with 'monkey's paw' wishes, in order to pass a chasm. The mook would envelop you in its shroud, demand your wish and deposit you safely to the far side. In a few days, your wish might manifest but the curse dropped much faster. Time was crucial, so I went with a flower (I got severe allergies for several weeks) figuring correctly that a puny wish would draw a minor disaster. Other than a few blown spells and a shambling mound, i was golden.

Our no. 1 fighter went for the brass ring, a powerful sword. Wound up with one that kept taking him over on occasion. That wasn't the curse, just the consequences of a high end sword. He never did find out the curse, but I think it summoned treasure-less monsters, a truly nasty curse.

Some time later, a genie ring fell into our hands and we unanimously sold it.

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In the 80s, a friend ran a NA game with anthro-humanoid variations of stock races (dwarf/wolverine, elf/deer, halfling/squirrel) only with serious deviations in terms of abilities. His coyote race was geared towards wisdom being the key stat. When he ran 3.0, he remade the races with rogue being their favored class. They had a racial ability to use wisdom as a base for anything up to their level times per day. Their clerics could only take the Coyote god and only got the Trickery domain. They got light armor and Rogue skill numbers and SA and Evasion.

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A local did something like this using the harlequin concepts and associated silliness in a champions game a decade or two ago. She got into the whole theatrical of the genre and ran this while in Paris for studies. Apparently there is a sizable body of material in French. She made them an alliance of homicidal maniacs, each with their own theme. Scaramouch was her head villian, if memory serves.

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LN deity with rival 'orders' (1 LG, 1LE) that feud as often as possible. Think of them as Immortals from Highlander. Got into a bloody and ultimately fatal rivalry with the party Cleric (dif deity) that he refused to atone for. Really wicked role playing, especially for the rest of the party. The best part was Mr Goody Two Shoes helping my Ftr poison a village of Kender.

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I really want to disagree with your 9/6/4 format, but your access via bloodline class etc. is just a great idea despite ships sailing. Maybe it will be seen in the future as inspiration and added. Or even a 3pp product...

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Black Spears-Rabid traders and scavengers. Fight with swarms of spear men and javelins, prefer mobbing lightly armored foes, cannot cope with agile opponents or flyers, prefer scrub and close woods. Mobile with camouflage camps by day.

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I like switching creature types. The one I liked best was plant to undead one run. Despite actually reading the entry in a supplement the players never recognized it.

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My practice is to make the most annoying RL the rule adjudicator and heap it all on him. (Odd, can't recall a single female I've saddled with this) I also pass off initiative tracking, running the melees, adventure logs, etc. I just provide the interaction with my world.

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I generally count it as something that peeks the interest of one our more of the characters. A shortage of certain spell components interests casters, a blight Druids, etc. I once turned the party into truffle hunters to play out a masked ball. Yes, a scavengers hunt from heck.

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A long time ago, a GM had lesser and greater versions of a number of spells, including alternate versions of the numerous polymorph spells. This also worked with stone flesh and several like spells.

Less advice than ideas for your GM...

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Fast healing is helpful tis true, but it can be tedious as a GM

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In support of Traits, several GMs I know have tailored or altered published ones to add flavor to their games. The game I currently play in has a short list that bring aspects of her campaign to the fore. My Elf had the Fey Trait, a weak version of the Fey Elf Feat that I traded for later. I then picked up a trait called Fey Avenger in its place.

I know it's out of left field, but this seems a good place to drop this.

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It may just be me, but this sounds like a great idea for a 3pp book!

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Old, but a real RP pain if your players are rigid thinkers. When I ran it, the players were mostly good in the brain gymnastics required, but both the weak players freaked the finale. Still, a great idea that I appreciated...and re-read last month.

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I used the troglodyte stench as a swap out for some ogres sometime back, but can't remember what got swapped...

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The last color coded Dragon I used was in 1976. In game silliness turned me off toward such and I have never looked back. I also curtailed ever bigger Dragons after reading 'Duncan and Mallory' late one night. It really cut down on tactics designed to counter big targets. It does rattle new players, but they soon leave me nasty advice on how to use Dragons better in their next appearance. Dang these new players improving my game.

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Having played in some 'dozen' or so EVIL games (including Monsters Monsters, back in the day), I have seen some awesome RP by people I honestly dislike IRL. One LE that I was very unwell with had me helping with a plan to drown a Dungeon, killing not just the bad critters but some dozens of Dwarves as well. Hey, it really was a GREAT plan!

Unless there was some overwhelming reason or threat, backstabbing and betrayal are too often the end of friendships and groups. No small group I have been with that 'went Evil' survived long. Too many players see what should be a social experience as a way to settle personal scores. We lost one our early 3.0 GMs to a pissy 'payback' from a normal game where two players disagreed on loot splitting.

I respect the desire for RP among the desenters, but in my experience those wanting to play Evil characters generally want strife. I include of my best friends in this, as he loved to wreck games. I un-include several people who really can make it work.

There is a 'Wicked' campaign out there that does look promising, but I know nothing of it. Can someone link it in the store ?

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Defensive Racial Traits: Natural Armor +1 (2 RP)

Just a quick fly in the ointment: where did this bit come from?

Loving this though.

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lemeres wrote:
Domestichauscat wrote:
I've wanted to ask billionaires that hoard most of their money in savings accounts the same thing. Maybe it's more of a humanity thing rather than a dragon thing.
At some point, it does become nihilistic in nature, doesn't it? Making money to make more money, when you already have more money than you or your children could use in a lifetime.

First: Billionaires don't do savings accounts. They invest.

Second: In my last long term campaign, I tailored Dragons after the Seven Deadly Sins. The more 'Sins' a Dragon embodied, the more powerful the Dragon. Wrath usually came first, gluttony and greed were mid range and pride came last, you know: right before the fall. Needless to say, that incarnation of the campaign had no 'good' Dragons.

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Androids can appear to be OP, but neither of ours have remotely dominated. The primary is a Bard and saves her uber-plus for the really dire circumstances, much to our GM's annoyances. Her fault, she crafted a half dozen nice little 'android' feats.

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Just found this! Awesome! I'll buy you a meal if you make it to Dragoncon!

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James Jacobs wrote:
I personally am vexed by the lack of aboleth minis.

A friend is a 'graffiK artestte' that makes the oddball minis for her husband's 3+ decades old game. She altered a Japanese Lionfish model into a 3.0 version of the big A. Dang thing is nearly six inches long and 'lives' in her office fish tank. a hollow and 'vents' allow water from the filter to make the tail move.

It serves as a real 'geek' detector!

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Got ripped on the Fighter (and others) lack of skill points last nite at a pizza ordering (odd how no green peppers can spark gripes about Perception checks...). One of the 'new kid' DMs proposed allowing the Fighter to use 'fighter gained' base attack bonus to be the default for Initiative, Perception, Intimidate, etc.

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Our last GM used Cha as a modifier to the buying and selling. Yeah, we all loved our Bard.

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Concepts look promising, 'specially the 'Sin" Bloodlines. i shall postpone my Seven Deadlies games till they are out.

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Perhaps increase the 'Level' of the wand by the same amount as the Metamagic feat?

2 people marked this as a favorite.
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Do not forget the Blood of the Elements. I would also like a 'Cat Book', perhaps with a 'build your own' formula. My game has a generic 'cat' race and three niche races...or maybe sub races. There are a few more in the wings, all cribbed from messageboards such as these. A few more, properly thought out, would be welcome.

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SmiloDan wrote:
If it's all homebrew, I don't have access to contradictory source material. That makes it easier to stay in character and in the moment.

Perfectly put! Kuddos!

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In '76 0r '77, I had a player buy the module I was running and cheat to get the best weapon. Since, even if I use one of the scads of modules I've bought, things get changed. In 3.0, my players were stunned when I ran several monsters right from the book and even a module with little re-write. They couldn't figure out when I was going to take it off the rails. The truth is that I was too tired to prep, but they were certain I was baiting them.

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