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Gonna agree with Cyrad on this. The lack of "realism" in the game exists for game balance. With a system like that you are proposing, melee martials become game-breakingly bad options to the point that being one is tantamount to a suicide by kiting. Melee is bad enough without needing to nerf the only thing it can do well (which is kill small numbers of targets at short distances).
Mark Seifter wrote:
I don't disagree, the unique options people have mentioned have me cautiously optimistic for my current Jade Regent character (whose Eidolon was always intended to be an emissary of Desna) since they seem less "pouncing natural attack is 100% the most optimal way to go." I suppose I'm more worried that there's still very little room to make a "support" eidolon (ie, one that isn't so heavily weighted towards the physical ability scores). I'll just have to wait and see when I get the PDF on the 29th.
From what people have so far mentioned, it seems to be a 100% unabashed no holds barred nerf. Whether it was needed or not is debatable (most vocal people on the boards hated it, from the looks of things.)
If it's not banned, Master Summoner Summon Good Monster and Superior Summoning. You have a horde of bodies to soak hp damage for your party, giving effective HP. SM III gives you psuedo healing with at will Aid. Almost every monster you would want to summon anyway starting at SM V (Bralani) will have some form of healing SLA. Get a Ring of Agathion Summoning at 17 and you're spitting out 1d3+1 Leonals, giving you over 1000 hp of healing in less than 1 minute's worth of actions, and then have the Leonals themselves to soak, battlefield control, or carpet bomb with fireballs for 16 minutes.
Allowing the player to bypass one of the major balancing aspects of First World Summoner (that of the fey type eidolon, significantly reducing the eidolons combat capability) for free is inherently a bad idea, balance wise. By comparison, to become roughly equivalent to a full fiend or celestial, a Summoner must spend roughly 12 evolution points: 7 for Celestial/Fiendish appearance, 5 for DR 10/alignment, and 1 for Magic Attacks.
Keep Calm and Carrion wrote:
They already did, it was Dual Cursed Oracle with Misfortune. (Need to be able to see the d20 roll to know if you want to force the reroll or not.)
Even in folklore, damage reduction didn't always mean that you literally couldn't break the skin, it just normally meant that the wound was far less serious to that creature. For instance bullets didn't bounce off of werewolves in folklore, they just healed so incredibly fast that it made no difference. Off tangent, they were also immune energy damage in folklore, which they are not in PF. Anyway, the DR issue is further supported by the Universal Monster rule entry:
Damage Reduction (Ex or Su) A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.
So we see that a character with sneak attack just knows more effective ways of dealing damage to things with anatomies, and doesn't break the fact that those attacks are just less serious to certain things.
As far as other riders, the case can be made that if you don't penetrate DR with a poisoned weapon, the wound is healed so fast that the poison literally has no time to make it into the bloodstream, and is therefore ineffective.
Riders do not activate if the damage needed to attach them does not beat DR. The most common form of this is poison. If you are attacked by a poisoned weapon (or a creature with poison), and that poison is injury based, then you must take at least one point of damage before the "rider" (poison) can affect you.
Sneak Attack USED to be like this in 3.0 (and maybe 3.5 as well) but has since been changed in Pathfinder to simply be increased damage as long as certain conditions are met, and so that damage is added to weapon damage before reducing for DR. Furthermore, sneak attack damage is always of the same type as the weapon used to deliver it (sneak attack with a ray of frost is cold damage, for example).
EDIT: So in your example, the rogue would deal 11-5=6 damage to the zombie, not zero.
Prereq for Arcane Strike is "ability to cast arcane spells," which mundanes with SLAs no longer count for. This is different from having a specific spell as a prereq, such as with Dimensional Agility. There, having an SLA of Dimension Door qualifies.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Unless said next enemy has been made aware of the party's capabilities somehow.
A pouncing Barbarian is going to have an attack bonus over +40 before you even take magical augmentation into account. Most of those monsters have an AC around 36. That two handed barbarian is going to obliterate them if they ever get into charge range, and have no need for any AC at all.
I did the math, I was overestimating how much MORE healing you would get but it's also in just over half the time
17th level summoner, ring of agathion summoning (leonal as SM8)
3 heals 300hp
1102.5 hp healed in 11 rounds
Then there's still the Leonals themselves running around for a little under 16 more minutes.
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
I agree with DS, honestly. A 17th level Summoner with a ring of agathion summoning can heal for an average of almost 3 times that amount in a much shorter time, and still have 1d3+1 Leonals to cast all sorts of other fun things (at will fireballs, 3 walls of force per leonal, etc). And that's for ~1/14th of one class ability.
Dimension Door only has a Verbal Component. The reason Dimension Door doesn't work well as a grapple escape is that the concentration check to cast a spell in a grapple is 10+Grappler's CMB+Spell Level. This is often a difficult check to pass, as CMB can quickly get out of control against things with grab or NPCs built to grapple.
So for those of us just starting out...How does a caster NORMALLY escape grapple? I'm playing an arcanist and planning out the exploits I'll be taking when I get to them. I had read some guide suggesting Dimensional Slide get's you out of grapple but my DM says no. So what DO I do when that comes up? Currently I'm assuming I use Still Spell + something to drop the grapple.
Dimensional Slide doesn't get you out of a grapple because you cannot move if you are grappled unless you become the "grappler" or escape the grapple.
Easiest way to escape a grapple is to be a Teleportation subschool Conjurer and use Shift. Su ability that simply functions as dimension door within sight range. As long as you can see the spot you want to go, you go there, and there is nothing the grappler can do to stop it.
Spirited Charge only works when charging while mounted. The way pummeling charge works you'd want as many attacks as possible at as high a BAB as possible, so a monk archetype that doesn't lose flurry with Horn of the Criosphinx is likely mathematically a better option than MoMS (which still takes two swift actions to get going at the dip level.)
Bonus should be around 10+Dex right now. If he has a 20 in Dex, then yes, he could have a +15
Diviner bonus +2
Edit: This for a Diviner Wizard, as previously mentioned. The Divination school specialization gives 1/2 Wizard level as an Initiative bonus. As to how bad it could get, the answer is very bad (A level 20 Diviner gets +10 to Init just from class abilities as well as treating all initiative rolls as a natural 20 and always acting in the surprise round even if not aware).
Name: Adawulf Vhiski
One of the most memorable encounters I've ever experienced.
So the group I'm with just finished the tower with Katiyana. We are a NG Master Summoner of Desna with Summon Good Monster, Sacred Slayer Inquisitor of Shizuru, and a Mysterious Stranger 1/Ninja X. We were level 8 during this encounter. My summoner had 3 hound archons summoned from previous encounters in the tower (2 just from the remorhaz on the floor below).
We didn't even play out the combat with the 3 hound archons vs the hoar frost spirits as it would have been a joke at this point.
There's not a real point to this story, I just thought it was pretty fun to one round a CR 11 encounter when down 1 PC and wanted to share.
That is true, but I simply fixed it by giving my PCs a reason to hate the Mitrans outside of the revenge plot. That way the revenge plot becomes Thorn's (and Asmodeus's revenge by proxy) and the PC's revenge. Thorn's rules are fine for now, while they have no power to stop him. In time though, they plan to find loopholes in their contract and take him out, as well as the Mitrans. Which is just fine with me.
francesco serafini wrote:
I'm not a newbie and I still have doubt on some rules. It's a complicated game. Never be afraid to ask.
Don't let anyone play a Souleater with Crafting Feats unless you're ok with your players becoming Monty Haul style over wealth due to the huge amount of downtime available in book 2.
Actually, I didn't find that to be a problem at all. None of the players were Asmodeans when I ran it, but the contracts they had to sign early in book 1 were enough to keep them in line until they were free of them. By that point, they wanted to rule the island anyway, so lack of Asmodean help just made it a little more challenging for them, but it wasn't immersion breaking.
If I were going to do anything, I'd give the guy grappled a small circumstance modifier to his CMD, per an invisible creature in a grapple. But as for a flat 50% miss to maintain, that's silly. You've already got a hold on the guy, you FEEL him. It doesn't matter that his image looks a couple inches in another direction.
Magus Pierce wrote:
Starting at 2nd level, a brawler can make a brawler’s flurry as a full-attack action. When doing so, a brawler has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat when attacking with any combination of unarmed strikes, weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the “monk” special feature. She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability.
Smashing board away.
Driver 325 yards wrote:
I agree that there *shouldn't* be table variance, but simply accede that there *may* be. I have seen enough arguments trying to apply defensive abilities in the worst order of operations possible (DR before Incorporeality, Vulnerability before Resistance) that I'm simply acknowledging that out there there is almost assuredly someone that does not agree with you and me.
In the order of operations, logical flow to me is Saving Throw, Damage mitigation not-DR/Resistance (incorporeality, for example), Resistance/DR, Vulnerability.
So in this case I would rule that Resilient Brute triggers first, splitting the damage, which is then reduced as applicable by each DR. It's an ability that you get to use at most 2x a day, it's not game breaking, not even really as powerful as a Destined Bloodrager's anti-crit ability.
RAW, there is no absolutely spelled out order of application of variables that affect damage, so you're going to have to deal with a bit of table variance. I feel my order of operations makes the most sense, however.
You're missing the point. A PRE-requisite is something that a creature is required to have PRIOR to being able to SELECT said Feat (which you actually quoted but didn't seem to notice). The very prefix PRE disallows you from taking Final Embrace without first having constrict. It's the same reason you couldn't take a feat with a prerequisite of Diplomacy +10 that gave you a +2 to Diplomacy if your Diplomacy was only +8.
I agree. Especially when you consider that most Inquisitors are going to have a Sense Motive check so insane that it replaces most spells anyway.
How, exactly, is a maximum of 4 damage, halved, getting through even wood's 5 hardness, to say nothing of stone's 8?
Not really, Rise of the Runelords gives you decent chunks of downtime. And that really takes a day a most. And even if you do end up having to do something you have plenty of 1-4th level spells to fall back on.
As long as you can get back to Varisia in the same day, but I agree about Runelords having large chunks of downtime. I wasn't referring to that AP in particular for the repercussions part (though there are a few timetables in that game that my players have borked by trying to abuse 15 minute adventure days.)
Ah I see. Yes I suppose if you're willing to pester deities with where you can find the BSF's next sword, that would help. It's a bit dangerous (Ability checks stay relevant much longer than other checks). It's also a lot of your high level spells just to buy things. Which means you're likely not adventuring that day. Which can (not always, but can) have its own repercussions.
Plane Shift to where, exactly? City of Brass on the Fire Plane I suppose would work, no sure of any other Metropoli elsewhere. Better be prepared though, Plane Shift isn't exact.
Teleport to where, exactly? Sure you can keep trying until you hit a place you've "seen once," but this invites potential mishaps, and wastes time, which as I mentioned can become a factor in Runelords.
I'll admit ignorance and say I'm not sure what Contact Other Plane is meant to accomplish in this scenario.
On a tangent, Anniversary Edition Karzoug is dangerous enough that I think even two full casters in a party of four would have a hard time keeping him under control. That first round if he wins Init is just brutal.
Matthew Downie wrote:
Sure, they do. But how many settlements are metropolis level in Golarion? Maybe 12-20? That's 12-20 shots at your item, on a table that is quite frankly so vast that your chances of any specific item you want being available are so slim that it's like winning the lottery.
Take Rise of the Runelords for example. The biggest settlement you come across in that entire campaign is Magnimar. Magnimar's base GP limit is 12,800 gp. You literally cannot find even a +4 stat item in Magnimar if it's not rolled as a specific item for that month. And you can get to this point as early as 7th level. This is for an AP that spans 18 levels by the end. So for more than half of the PCs adventuring lives, they have to juggle trying to have things commissioned (Runelords has some decent time tables in place) or just roll with what they find in monster loot.
If you want magical items to feel special, there is already a mechanism for that. It's far less immersion breaking to me to just say that a medieval civilization with low magic would have medieval settlement sizes (ie, large cities being the absolute maximum size) and using that than creating specific and arbitrary restrictions.
I feel like I'm a broken record here but I really feel like all these ideas about the rules allowing for Magic Mart Syndrome are a consequence of people never reading or enforcing settlement limitations. A +5 magic sword is also 50,000. If you're going by the rules, there *might* be one available (from the specific major item random roll) but if not, a player isn't going to be able to just buy one, even in a Metropolis (unless that metropolis has some traits that give it a decent boost to its base gp value). Many of these homebrew attempts I see have an incredible onus on them. I feel if many just really read the settlement rules and enforced them, they wouldn't need convoluted systems of magical item distribution.
Simon Legrande wrote:
Except the world isn't, if you're using the settlement rules. Even a metropolis is only going to have a handful (around 1d4ish) of items worth more than around 36,000 gold a month. Also, CL is irrelevant for crafting 99% of the time. It's one of the most ignored requirements (which only raises the DC by 5).
I just use the actual rules. Not even Metropoli have a 36000gp base limit. That means even something as minor as a +6 stat item either has to be specifically commissioned (meaning getting a crafter to devote 36 days to one item), rolled as part of the random major items of the month, or just found.
Magic Mart Syndrome is largely a product of not using the settlement rules correctly.
A 17th level Master Summoner with the Ring of Agathion summoning putting out 1d3+1 leonals is an average of 416 healing per leonal for one use of your ~16/day SLA. On top of pounce, 3(1d3+1) Walls of Force, unlimited fireballs(1d3+1)/hold monsters, and protective auras on all of them to shield your teammates. And if you have SGM, they all have Diehard. It's a long way off, but definitely something that can come in handy at the end of an AP.
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