Brian E. Harris's page

Providing credit to buy PDFs from Paizo is not "selling PDFs somewhere else."

Per Paizo's statements, relying on the retailer to distribute that credit to the person that purchases the book is not a workable system, as they feel there's too much margin for abuse/error/etc.

I didn't say "selling PDFs somewhere else", I said:

Paizo doesn't find any method of distributing coupons or providing PDFs acceptable, short of actual direct subscriptions.

Providing credit for the free purchase of the PDF is included in that.

See the difference?

Also, let me reiterate something: They never said they CAN'T do this. They said they WON'T do this. A lot of people seem to be harping on the fact that something like this is easy to do, and Paizo is a bunch of morons for their inability to do so. They CHOOSE not to do this because it doesn't meet their standards for doing so.

I imagine you would be exceedingly wrong. Few, if ANY, people go to local gaming stores unless they MEAN to be going there and if they MEAN to be going there, then they are already in the hobby in general.

In my experience, you're absolutely incorrect. The local stores receive a lot of walk-in traffic from folks that aren't involved with or familiar with the hobby - ESPECIALLY around the holiday season.

Folks, I know you're out through Monday, so I'll try to be patient.

USPS just delivered this order.

Instead of the signed first print that I payed $150 for, I received an unsigned fouth printing.

It was packed quite nice, with styrofoam corner protectors, which is great, but I'd really rather have signatures inside.

Please, please help.

RunebladeX wrote:

<... lots of stuff about the plastic industry that would indicate every miniature producer for the last 20 years had incompetent marketing and sales...>

Well, I guess you and I will have to disagree. Every single thing you are saying directly contradicts the actual history of the miniature market.

I will just repeat myself and say I hope Paizo and WizKids have something new up their sleeve, because none of the previous strategies have been successful for anything like a "long term" product life. And long term is what I want to see.

Methinks he also vastly overestimates the market size, based on a bunch of comments by folks actually in the industry...

Isn't the Map Pack a book with letter size maps? Or is it a couple large maps stapled down the middle? Why can't you scan them in with a normal scanner and stitch them together with GIMP. You would probably need to do it at a high enough dpi like 300 or 600 depending on how much detail you want to save.

A> This requires work/time that I don't have or choose to spend on other things. I'd rather throw money at someone else doing it for me, and using the original high-resolution data to do it, rather than a scan.

B> The legality of this is a gray area to some people, and they'd prefer to steer clear of it.

I want to preorder this but I don't understand the shipping options.

Book description says it is a hardbound book.

Shipping choices say "Select shipping for softcover purchases only."

So what should I pick?

I was told by folks here to pick the $4.00 option for domestic shipping.

If that's incorrect, I'm sure we'll be given the option to true-up later.

That is really unrelated to providing credit for the free purchase of a PDF from Paizo's site contingent on buying a hardcover book of the same.

How's that?

Paizo doesn't find any method of distributing coupons or providing PDFs acceptable, short of actual direct subscriptions.

Providing credit for the free purchase of the PDF is included in that.

I think that works the other way around. (F)LGSs are on their way out.

Paizo can do all their business with their own site, and amazon, and other big venues and probably do fine enough - especially since new players probably find out about the game over the internet, and if they can't get it in some game store, they'll get it on amazon and save some money. The internet also does the job of informing people about the game and helping them make buying decisions.

The stores, on the other hand, need to sell product, or they will be shut down. Things aren't exactly rosy for them. So throwing a tantrum and not selling one of the best-selling games in the industry is not a good move.

I agree with your last point, but I think the FLGS still plays an important role in introducing new players to the hobby, far more than the internet does.

It just seemed from few posts that it was the norm for stores to charge the full price where as here almost all stores take 10-15% off the recommended price in order to compete with online sellers. There are exceptions obviously but they tend to be stores that are making their money on something else and just carry a small line of RPG books.

That's pretty much the case around here, as I've discovered (Oregon, southern Washington, etc.).

I've seen a couple of stores that have provided a 10% discount if they have to order it due to not stocking it, but that's not enough to entice me to WAIT to get the item. If they had it in stock AND discounted 10%, I'd likely buy more.

As such, I typically end up buying ancillary products from the FLGS, rather than the main stuff. :(

I fail to see how that is a counterargument. So Paizo can't make an effort because some store owners might be incompetent or lazy and some purchasers ignorant?

Why wouldn't the coupons be bundled with book deliveries? Send them a standee to put out to notify customers and remind sellers that purchasing a hardcover book in store warrants a coupon for a free PDF of said book?

I understand that you likely don't agree with the reason, but Vic has stated in the past that Paizo's official issue with this particular method is that there's no way of guaranteeing that these coupons actually make their way to the purchaser of the book - that the coupons could get lost, stolen, sold separately, etc.

It's not that they can't make an effort, it's that they're unwilling to utilize this method as they don't find it at all satisfactory.

Diamond routinly sells FLGS a 49.99 item for 25 to 30 dollars each (This was 2 years ago,and more for action figures than books, so my numbers may be a bit out of date). Amazon then sells it for $31.95.

Alliance/Diamond and the other distributors had a similar discount when I inquired about setting up a new account for a store I was looking at purchasing.

I'd imagine that Amazon gets a BETTER deal than the average FLGS or bookstore, but for the sake of argument, we'll assume the same, which is, on average, 50% of cover (new accounts pay around 53% of cover for RPG books, generally - some lines are different, and non-book products are different).

So, Amazon (and your local FLGS) get the CRB for about $25, and Amazon marks it up to $31.49.

I'm going to have to see some kind of proof that Amazon pays more than $31.49 per copy of the CRB to buy the "everything they sell direct is sold at a loss" statement.

(Please note - as I mentioned earlier, when accounting for the free Super Saver shipping, or even Prime, this may be the loss that is being discussed, but it's not on the product itself.)

Secondary markets rock for this very reason. The primary market is for the randomized pre-painted plastics, and the secondary market caters to those not willing to buy randoms (which traditionally was a much smaller crowd).

In the heyday of DDM, I saw all kinds of folks selling packs of commons/uncommons - the gnoll packs, the orc packs, kobold packs, etc.

Gary Sarli did a pretty good business doing something similar for SWM, with bulk packs of stormtroopers/clonetroopers/droids/etc.

Amazon buys the book from Paizo at $x. They sell it to you for $x-y where y is a positive number. That's a loss. Amazon regularly does this for it's new book distribution. The do this to drive increased traffic and all-in-one shoppers to their site. They then make their money as a percentage from the other portions of their business. The point is that new book sales are lost-leaders for them, like that $1 USB memory stick at a Best Buy. They want to drag you into the store, so losing a couple bucks on a memory stick is worthwhile when they can sell you some Monster Cable speaker wire for 1000% mark-up.

Amazon buys it's books from Diamond, as Vic has mentioned.

Is Diamond selling books to Amazon for more than the 47%-50% off cover price that they sell to the FLGS?

Because I doubt that. I doubt that very much.

Assuming Amazon buys a CRB from Diamond for $25.00 (50% off $49.99 cover), then sells it for $31.49 - that's a $6.49 markUP.

They MIGHT be taking a loss on free shipping (be it Super Saver or Prime), but, in the case of Paizo books that Amazon sells, all of them are marked up more than the cost an FLGS pays, so they're not selling them for less than they paid, at least, not until shipping is figured in.

Paizo direct sales not meeting Amazon's price has far less to do with selling for less than cost, and far more to do them not wanting to undercut the direct sales channels.

This is pretty standard with just about any product that you can buy locally and direct from the manufacturer at the same time - the manufacturer typically sells for MSRP so they don't anger the retailer.

I find the PDFs useful for extra use, not in game use, to me the PDFs would be useful but would not replace the physical product

For me, also.

In the news today, screaming legume demands randomized minis!

I'm more a big glob of algae, rather than a legume...

I think the idea is, if the only way you can get the PDF is by Subscribing, it would cause people to Subscribe to get the only option to get the PDFs and therefore the stores would lose those sales because they are now getting it through Paizo because it is the only way to get the PDF.

I guess this would be one of those products that probably sells more in the store than direct...

I still don't understand why they don't just do what they do with the books, Sell the PDF as a separate option and add it for those that subscribe.

I understand this point totally - Vic said that if PDFs were available as a separate option from print, there'd be enough loss of print sales to make that a non-viable product.

I'm willing to buy randomized boosters, since that's the only way any significant quantity of minis is going to sell (with the exception of something like this particular set).

Bring 'em on!

Also 3 Blue Dragons, 2 large 1 huge,

Large Blue Dragon

Stormrage Blue Dragon (also large)

Elder Blue Dragon (huge)

1 gargantuan Fang dragon I haven't seen any of those in a WotC mini box, Gargantuan or Fang!

Large Fang Dragon (not huge or gargantuan, but they made a Fang)

Still wish we could have gotten a Gargantuan Green. :(

EXCELLENT!

Please, PLEASE tell me that these are "standard" sized bases, comparable to the WotC DDM sizing!

Yeah, I took the chance - got a 4th. That was damaged, looked like someone slammed the top of it with round bar stock, but the indent/impact on the covers (top of front and back) weren't aligned, so I dunno.

It ALMOST looked like possible damage from strapping (like pallet-stacking and strapping), but I wouldn't think the books are shipped like that.

Anyhow, called Amazon, they sent a replacement that's also a 4th, and it's perfect.

Posted in another thread:

Updated dates from Amazon on the copy I pre-ordered for a buddy:

We have received new release date information related to the order you placed on April 01 2011 (Order# XXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX). The item(s) listed below will actually ship sooner than we originally expected based on the new release date:

Paizo Staff "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Magic"
Previous estimated arrival date: July 14 2011
New estimated arrival date: June 09 2011

Updated dates from Amazon on the copy I pre-ordered for a buddy:

We have received new release date information related to the order you placed on April 01 2011 (Order# XXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX). The item(s) listed below will actually ship sooner than we originally expected based on the new release date:

Paizo Staff "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Magic"
Previous estimated arrival date: July 14 2011
New estimated arrival date: June 09 2011

Curious if Borders and B&N will update similarly.

So, is Diamond giving out this July 12th date to the two "sub"-distributors, or how is everyone getting this date?

It's just odd that three different resellers (Amazon, Borders, B&N/Waldenbooks) are all touting the same release date, and would seem more likely that this is a date they've been given by someone farther up the supply chain...

I do. Except it's a hamster. I call him "commodore" because of the little hat.

/me salutes his 63 fallen hamster brethren.

:D

What happened to the previous 19 Vics?

Vic has said basically this will not happen. Reason are:

When I brought up why not just give PDFs to Subscribers he said they would not do that because it would hurt local stores, since subscriber would be the only way to get the PDF.

Dumb question, but since this has been resurrected...

Why are the maps special in that respect?

I get why they wouldn't sell just PDFs of the maps, but providing the PDFs to subscribers, with no seperate sales option isn't an option because it would hurt the local stores?

That argument doesn't seem to make sense, considering the only way to get the PDFs of the other products now are direct from Paizo.

Just curious, as electronic format of these maps would facilitate much more use of them.

I get a redirect to paizo.com/nostore when attempting to view feeds - specifically, SGG's "New" stuff.

to expand on this a little...

Will Paizo be offering bundle sets on their subscriptions in the future that includes the print and PDF?

I ask because I canceled all my subscriptions (adventure path, companions and modules) except the roleplaying game sub. My reason for subscribing is because I travel alot when roleplaying and the PDFs where more valuable to me than the print editions however the collector in me likes to display complete sets on my shelves :). I canceled due to moving house and taking on a larger mortgage but am coming close to be in a position to resubscribe to one or two more.

It would be great if pazio offered 1 year, 6 month, or 1 quarter deals on subscription back orders that included print and PDFs. it would be even beter if they offered 5+ back orders of your choice with PDFs because then I could resubscribe without worrying about doubling up.

I wouldnt even mind paying a little extra on the print version say 1 or 2 dollars if it included the PDF.

Paizo has, in the past, stated that something like this will not happen, or is extremely unlikely, as they wish to preserve the subscriber benefits, and feel that such offers would undermine those that have supported them via the subscriber program.

I'd like to see some deal offered to subscribers to pick up back catalog PDFs for a better deal than the Pathfinder Advantage, but unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

And I see some people just can't avoid bringing the political discussion to this thread.

Something needs to be done, soon.

I thought the PBP solicitations were supposed to be in the already existing PBP forums, and people just abused the Gamer Connection forum...

Guess I'm wrong, so I support this seperation wholeheartedly.

I for one would vote for banning all political/religious discussions, if making a separate subforum is not an option. There is trollishness enough to experience discussing game theory.

I'm in favor of the ban on such discussion - no subforum.

That said, I'd like to see the ban be on discussion of the topics in the 20th and 21st century. I'd like to be able to have a historical discussion on earlier events, as there's a lot of parallels in gaming fiction and the worlds we all create/play in.

Cutting out the last 111 years should negate a fairly significant portion of the vitriol that comes up on a lot of the current stuff.

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Or, at least, consistently?

What with all the Amazon talk, I remembered that I'd like to add another copy (and of the latest printing) to the shelf, and just curious how many of you folks have bought a copy from them lately, and if it was a 4th Printing.

Amazon has definitely had *plenty* of 4th printings shipped to them over the past six or seven month, but that's still no guarantee that they *only* have 4th printings in all of their warehouses. I wouldn't be surprised if they still have a handful of 1st printings hanging around somewhere.

Understood. I'm just hoping for reports of consistent 4th Printing shipments...

Guess I'll just have to order and see. If it's not a 4th, I'm sure I can find a home for it with a friend.

Since 99% of the stuff I order is directly from Amazon and not from the other sellers, my stuff always comes in a nice box with air pillows. I try to order directly from Amazon because I don't pay S&H since I have a student account(Prime). However, even when I order from the other sellers on Amazon, my stuff is always packaged in a nice package and I get it in about 1 week, if not less.

I buy a lot of stuff via Amazon. A LOT. I'd say about 50% is from Amazon itself, and the other 50% is from Marketplace vendors.

Amazon's packaging it adequate for a lot of things, but those air pillows are horrible for large books like the CRB. About 3 months ago, I purchased a 3rd Printing from them, and had to exchange it three times to get a copy that wasn't mangled. Fortunately, as a Prime subscriber, it was quick and on their dime - they advance-shipped the replacement, I shipped the mangled copy back in their packaging.

Marketplace vendors are all over the board. RPG stuff purchased from Titan Games or Sci Fi City (via Amazon) are always packaged fantastically. Some other vendors kinda suck.

Now that I think about it, it usually takes longer for an item I order from Paizo to get to me(1-2 weeks) than it does for something I order from Amazon, and I pay higher shipping with Paizo. Like I said I've been ordering from Amazon for years and have never had the problems that everyone else is claiming. I've been lucky I guess.

I don't have nearly the problems some folks claim. The CRB issue above? Over the last 10 or 12 years that I've been buying from them, I've had far less issues than I've had at brick-and-mortars.

Yes, please.

Bump!

No Paizo members in the area? That's a shame!

I guess I also don't understand how someone who owns a shop in Texas or Oregon can get the books and sell them brand new on Amazon (including S&H) for less than I can buy them on Paizo's site (even with my discount). Even if I don't order directly from Amazon, but from one of these other sellers the S&H is $3.99, but I think I average over $5 for S&H from Paizo.

Shipping of $3.99 is set by Amazon for a single book. What this means is that, in many cases, if not ordering from Amazon, but a Marketplace vendor, that you'll be lucky if you get a padded envelope sent Media Mail.

Paizo's shipping prices don't include Media Mail (or don't for many items), and superior packaging.

As far as pricing - "shops", or anyone with an account from a distributor like Alliance, are paying around 50-55% of the cover price for the book.

As such, if they choose to barely mark it up, they can offer it for a 35-40% discount, and still make a couple bucks off it by beating the subscriber discount here (15% if you're an AP subscriber, or the 30-33% discount Amazon provides), assuming they cheap out on the shipping and make a buck or so from that.

On the credits page facing the table of contents, at the very bottom, it will tell you the printing, printing date, and country of origin.

Thanks for posting!

Good video, and I think a far better representation of gamers as a whole - down to earth and, ultimately, sane.

Or, at least, consistently?

What with all the Amazon talk, I remembered that I'd like to add another copy (and of the latest printing) to the shelf, and just curious how many of you folks have bought a copy from them lately, and if it was a 4th Printing.

Wow man, internet nerds unite against rudeness! You guys are hilarious, and not in a good way. I would note, that my expectation to be given a couple slices of pizza is attached to the idea that the group is ordering pizza, not that I just show up and expect food. Seriously though, hilarious.

See, again, it's the whole "expectation" thing. The GROUP is ordering pizza. Are YOU contributing to the purchase, or are you just expecting the group to provide it since they decided to get jobs that could afford them the ability and finances to order pizza, and you didn't?

I don't believe that the majority of the people who have an issue with your expectation actually have an issue kicking down some pizza to a fellow gamer and friend. I certainly don't.

I've had members of my game group who haven't been able to contribute to food, and my group has never had a problem pushing a plate their way when we bought group food.

Of course, our gamers and friends would never dare get self-righteous about the situation and expect that others were to provide for them. They keep their high horses in the stables at home, and don't bring them along for game night.

Ultimately, your attitude isn't hilarious. It's heinously boorish.

Mikaze wrote:

TarkXT wrote:

I'm playing a game about heroic adventure in a fantasy setting not Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

People don't get to pick and choose their trigger issues. He shared that he felt discomfort over a new game element. He did not request that the game be sanitized.

I have my own "don't want to go there" subjects. I most certainly do not run a sanitized game.

/thread

People, there are these things called trigger issues. Everybody has them.

Harping about it with "I don't mind ogrerape/infanticide/suicides/etc in my games" "Me neither, woo!" like some horde of parroting monkeys doesn't solve anyone's problems, doesn't help the OP, doesn't support the developers of the rules(they are already aware you like nasty stuff and some others don't) and certainly doesn't add anything to this thread worth discussing.

You could +1 Mikaze's post, if you feel like supporting something.

Or, you could lend your voice to the support of what Paizo's doing, and let them know that you do NOT support a minority opinion.

My trigger issue? That you seem to feel that one person can post whatever he/she feels, but when others post a dissenting opinion, you tell them that it adds nothing to the conversation.

The street goes both ways - by your own logic, the OP's post doesn't support the developers of the rules, since they're already aware some folks don't like "nasty stuff".

Seriously - the OP can post what bothers him/her, that's cool. Others obviously feel the need to let Paizo know that they don't share that opinion, and they'd prefer that things stay how they're going.

Do you know why a lot of people post in opposition to the OP? Because posts like this are, at their root, aimed at altering content. The OP doesn't like something, and he's posted that. In the OP's perfect world, the end result would be that specific content, and all like content would be removed. Otherwise, why post a negative viewpoint of published content?

I'm not saying that posting such is bad - if there's something I don't like, I'm not afraid to say that. If I'm lucky, enough people share my opinion, and the outcome is more tailored to my preferences.

It's completely asinine to expect that a particular viewpoint can be posted and not opposed.

Just putting some feelers out there for folks that might be looking for a gaming group.

We're down to a group of 4 (including whoever has the GM reigns for a given session), and would like to get the group back up to 5-6 players.

We're invested in 3E/3.5 or other D20-based stuff such as Modern, SW (D20 or RCR, but I've got the Saga stuff) and Pathfinder.

We're open to some other games, too - I'd like to put some of my 2E/3E/4E Shadowrun stuff to use, for example.

If you reside in this area and don't mind driving to Lebanon for gaming, my email is in my profile, and we'd be interested in hearing from you.

I have yet to write a review for this product.

Can the review authorization committee let me know what the guidelines are, and exactly how many stars I'm allowed to rank the product?

Or do you folks just want to write the review for me? That way we can ensure that it meets your stringent criteria.

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Nudist GM? Do people really have obnoxious DMs like this guy?

Oh hi!

You must be new to these boards...

Heh...You know, I read the horror stories, but nothing really drives it home until you see it "for real", as it was.

If that guy was my only option for gaming, I'd sell my books.

Can you fine folks take a look at this one for me? It didn't appear to bill shipping for the Print/PDF Bundle of the Adventurer's Handbook, and doesn't appear that it's scheduled to ship a print copy.

Thanks!!

Please disregard, I just received a ship notice for this book as well as the other stuff.

As always, you folks ROCK!

Can you fine folks take a look at this one for me? It didn't appear to bill shipping for the Print/PDF Bundle of the Adventurer's Handbook, and doesn't appear that it's scheduled to ship a print copy.

Thanks!!

Started watching this on the nifty Hulu Plus free trial week going on, and have just shut it off halfway through.

This thing is just depressing.

Maybe I'm just a jerk, but it seems like they sought out to find people to just make the hobby look bad.

Drow chick? Needs to stop being co-dependent and stop ruining hotel rooms. That stupid body-paint-demolition of the sink and bed? That should be a crime.

Nudist GM? Do people really have obnoxious DMs like this guy?

Writer? This guy needs to man up and stop living off of his wife. Holy cow, he's honestly the worst of the bunch - at least the others have jobs. I only have seen half of the movie so far, but every time he comes on camera, we find out more and more what a slacker he is - turns out his wife is actually the manager of the apartment complex, AND she's holding down an outside job? While he what? Plays video games and prioritizes his book over actually contributing to his family?

Gah.

I really don't know if I can turn this back on and watch the rest.

Does it get any better? Is there some kind of "Get a life!" intervention for these people?

When does it all come out?

I was one of the Kickstarter sponsors, and I've got my maps - just anxiously awaiting the adventures!

They won't reprint until they run out of the existing stock of books, and don't typically announce that until it happens.

I would imagine that when a 5th printing of the Core Rulebook happens, for example, we'd see updated errata in it if any exists, as this seems to be what they've done with reprints of this book already.

The word "stolen" has rather obvious meaning and connotations. The reviewer could have used word such as "recycled" or "copied". He used the word "stolen". It's pejorative and derogatory.

He could have, but regardless of words used, he didn't make any claims of plagiarism.

I think it was a poor review, myself, but still - it's not semantics, it's outright nonsense.

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Am I reading a completely different review, or did it get edited? I don't see anything about non-OGL material or plagiarism.

3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Paladin has taken abilities from the healer class, an entire other class, while retaining its old abilities in the mix.

...
I far prefer the small steady bonuses in beta over the stolen 3.5 knight abilities in core.

Sure, I see those words, but I'm not reading them as plagiarism, of non-OGL sources or otherwise.

I seem that as a claim of abilities "taken" or "stolen" from another class.

Anyhow, so, yeah, this:

The review contains many claims that Paizo plagerized non-OGL material (healer, knight, warlock etc.)

is false.

Am I reading a completely different review, or did it get edited? I don't see anything about non-OGL material or plagiarism.

Also:

This is a forum of people who wanted 3.5 changed.

No it's not.

This is a forum of people who wanted to see 3.5 continue in some publishable (and published) form - changed or unchanged, but at a minimum, kept alive.

I understand the concept of why things had to be changed enough so that they'd justify to most people the purchase of a copy of the book over maintaining their existing books, but there was a very large and vocal group of folks that wanted to see Pathfinder published, but didn't want to see things changed as much as they were.

A lot of those folks are still here and still participating, having accepted the change.