Brent's page

Brent,

The 'early days' of the 'Killer GM' mindset in D&D derived from the simple fact that back when, we really didn't grasp the concept of 'roleplaying' in the game. There were no significant mechanics built into the game other than alignment to encourage such behavior, and D&D players at that time and area were fairly scarce on the ground.

So we took what was left - a scattering of modules that to pre-adolescent/early adolescent young men spelled 'swag, eeps and tons of critters to hack', and merrily chopped, cleaved, hacked and fireballed our way through everything we could, characters dying in windrows and loot piling up in portable holes and bags of holding.

In 3e, nearly 20 years after those heady 1st edition days of hack n slash dungeon crawling glory, we find ourselves as GMs inundated with a distressingly large number of Mighty Endorphin Power Stranger characters that would give the 1st edition dieties and demigawds nightmares to even contemplate facing down. Yes, almost 20 years later, I'm well aware that D&D can be a roleplaying avenue - it's merely my personal perspective that the game mechanically does an absolutely horrible job of really supporting role-play vs. roll-play. In short, it doesn't, not really.

With so many PCs being MEPS these days, returning to the Killer GM mindset is as much a defense mechanism as anything else.

I remember those days. My earliest experiences with D&D were the meatgrinder dungeons where just as often as not my character died and I had fun BECAUSE he died. Players now are too intent on creating a character that can solo everything and is utterly impossible to kill. It's like when Offic Ninja told his story about how his party killed Dragotha inside of like 3 rounds. A lot of players have become about figuring out how to deal as much damage as possible in a round and how to bypass everything in the game meant to make it more challenging. Not only that, they get offended when their character bites the dust like it is an insult to their virillity or something. Then they proceed to make an even more twinked out template convoluted freak that is so far removed from the typical PC race/class that it's hard to figure out even a joke that explains how they came into being. It's like so a demon, dragon, fey, golem, minotaur, and bacterial disease that causes the feral template have an orgy and collectively ejaculate into the primordial ooze. The ooze is then found by a monastary/temple/college of duskblades/thieves guild/paladin order combo organization from the underdark and after 20 years of exposure to dark radiations and training fighting Gods, emerged as a fighter/swachbuckler/hexblade/barbarian/frenzied berzerker/binder/shawocaster; half dragon/half fiendish/half golem/feyri/feral/shade/tauric minotaur and decided to go hang out in sasserine a the mermaid and whistle tavern looking for the opportunity to join a team of like minded folk seeking the thrill of rising above their pasts.

Sometimes when I hear this stuff, I want to say "what does that even mean". It's like logic and a certain amount of rationale have no place at the gaming table anymore. No teamwork, no strategy, just "me smash with teh aw11soom@ pwnag111!!". I blame MMORPG's a little bit, but I blame the stupid optimization boards and the fact that there is no limitation on how much crap a player can combine in their character if the LA is high enough even more. If there is anything I am looking forward to with 4th edition it is a reset of all that for at least a few weeks. From the sounds of it though, splat books won't be needed because the twinkness will be built right into the PHB.

Sorry rant over, I just really empathize with Allen and Turin right now. I've seen the dark side and it is a scary place.

Brent wrote:

I'm of the opinion that the Crusader and all the ToB classes for that matter are amongst the most broken/munchkinned classes in the game.

The above idea is only suggested as a form of damage control, not as an actual 'balancing of the class', thats impossible for that class.

Brent, bear in mind that I agree with you about this. And Warblades can once per day expend a Full-Round action to regain ALL their spent maneuvers (<--WTF!?). In some ways Swordsages are even worse over time, as they can take a Full-action to regain any one maneuver, but they can keep doing it repeatedly.

I don't particularly like the ToB. I actually somewhat like the classes, except for the Crusader. But I think a LOT of the manuevers are broken.
Since maneuvers are the heart of the classes, the classes are broken too.
Above I only meant that by using the cards, at least then you won't have a cheating Crusader too.
Turin, White Raven and Devoted Spirit, along with Iron Heart and the highest levels of Diamond Mind are among the most royally screwed up of the devotions.

Unfortunately its kinda hard to do a character fix while you are in a game. If they die, I'd at that point disallow more ToB characters myself. At least until a fix that works can be found.

No worries Yasha. I wasn't really directing my comments at you although I did make them in a reply to your post. When I first got ToB, I thought it was a really cool book, so when my player wanted to use it I didn't really see a reason to not allow it. Although as is the case with most splat books, I relyed on the player to tell me how things worked for his character without really double checking him. I didn't know the maneuver refresh thing the Warblade did was limited to once per day. My player basically was refreshing all his maneuvers as a swift action in any given round, and making an attack that same round. It seemed like there was no power balance at all. Most of his high end maneuvers did things like automatically bypassed damage reduction and did crazy amounts of damage, although I do agree with Turin that the Warblade didn't seem so bad once I got to experience the Crusader. He almost always had ridiculously broken maneuvers available. He could give other party members attacks with him as immediate actions, or give himself another full round of actions right after himself also as an immediate action. His delayed damage pool coupled with the ability to heal on hits made him almost impossible to actually hurt. He set himself up so that against Chaotic and Evil creatures he has stupid high DR, saves, and attack and damage bonuses. He also made the character at the start of Tides of Dread, so he had the legacy Falchion in ToB as well.

I was just stunned in game with how incredibly impossible his character was to hurt, and how easily he healed and could move even the other party members around like chess pieces. I wish I could remember what the maneuver he used to reset initiative order was. That power was one of the most broken mechanics I have ever seen in the D&D game going back to 1st edition. The only way I was ever able to even hurt him was Khala had that acid breath thing and he flew into the air and hit the crusader with it 4 times before the rest of the party managed to ground him and kill him. Even then the player threw a temper tantrum about how it was unfair the level drain effect was on a ranged touch attack and didn't allow a save. I was not sympathetic, so he trashed teh character and made the Erudite or whatever. That was also crazy broken. Access to every Psionic discipline coupled with the stupid power that divides your mind and then the other one that further subdivides it was just crazy. Fortunately I don't have that player anymore, but he wrecked more havock in my game than I care to admit in the year and a half he played. I used to be a kinder gentler DM, but this bozo made me a little more adversarial in my approach. I require players to submit characters for inspection at each level up to make sure there is not funny business. I have banned ToB and most of what is in the XPH. I require point buy now after trusting my players to roll up their characters and getting characters with 4 scores over 16 and a low roll of 14. I guess you could say my innocence as a DM was taken away, but I have a whole new appreciation for Allen and Turins DM style now. If I had their players, I would have given up the game or just nuked all their butts by now.

Pygon wrote:

Turin the Mad wrote:

Sadly, they racked up enough xp to bump one or more to 6th level, IIRC.

Stupid PC's gaining levels!

That gave me a good belly laugh, Pygon, many thanks, and welcome to the campaign journal! ^_^

Sea Wyvern's Wake is written for a 5th level party of about 5 PCs. (The AP's are realistically geared for a smaller party early on and a larger one as the AP progresses near as I can tell. Now that the suckers are about to embark to the Isle of Dread, things get harder...)

Since I believe all or almost all of them are 6th level, they'll get to enjoy the yet-to-be-determined fun of Kellani payback, the gender-bending 'gifts' to the 3 male PCs, and ...

Oh, I think a savage Cap'n Harliss awaiting anyone so foolish as to go ashore in Kraken's Cove should prove suitably fatal for anyone so dense as to return. CR 14 savage NPC anyone ? ^_^ (The mental image in my head is from the end of the cult classic movie with the killer kachini doll, the toothy woman patiently chunking her butcher knife into the floor eagerly awaiting her next meal to walk through the door...)

Other than that, the SWW should prove entertaining enough ... especially since I have no intention of letting them bypass a perfectly good fight with a blue slaad (maxxed out hp due to the crusader's retarded healing maneuvers). Sorry Mr. Pett, but I get to play with slaadi rarely enough, this chance is too good to not use.

I'm with you there Turin. I didn't even give the party a chance to stop the Slaad. It burst fully grown into the middle of the hold and a bunch of innocents without the party so much as a chance to realize what hit them. Of course they whined and moaned about it, but I think it is small recompense for hte goofyness of having to put up with twinky templated munchkinness of doom. I say kill their sorry butts.

Ugh! Thats right..they hit 5th. Yeah those third level spells are that first major power boost that characters recieve. Be glad though, the Crusader won't get his nasty on until 7th. Its a 4th level maneuver called Divine Surge, check it out and start planning for it now, he will most assuredly take that one. The one benefit that balanced the Crusader somewhat is their random maneuvers, you never know, and neither do they, which maneuvers they will have at a particular moment in a fight. I don't know if I suggested this to you before, but a fellow DM I know used it and it seemed to work really well....

Use Index cards, instead of letting him roll to see which Maneuvers he has each round (meaning 2 at the start of combat and 1 each new round, with expended maneuvers now unavailable for the rest of the fight), write the names of all of his maneuvers known on seperate index cards. Have him/her choose out their readied maneuver into a pile of their own.

At the start of combat, shuffle and let them draw their two, discard used maneuvers and shuffle and let them draw their 1 additional maneuver at the beginning of each round. That way you can make sure there is no fudging or anything of that sort and it makes it really easy to keep track of. Its actually a really good mechanic for the other Martial Adept classes too, it helps keep everything straight really well. Like using initiative cards.

I'm of the opinion that the Crusader and all the ToB classes for that matter are amongst the most broken/munchkinned classes in the game. When I ran the Savage Tide, one of my players started off with a Warblade that just caused no end of misery for me as DM. The thing that makes him broken is that he can access his most powerful abilities basically every round. That was bad, so the player dropped that character with a little nudging from me. He then made a Crusader claiming it wouldn't be as broken because of the random maneuver thing. That was a total joke. Even at 14th level in Tides of Dread, he had such a small number of maneuvers, that he typically didn't have to wait long at all to get his best ones in hand. He also had the legacy weapon Falchion from that book that went with the White Raven school or whatever. His delayed damage pool coupled with the ridiculously ignorant martial maneuvers mechanic made him virtually unkillable with HP damage. In the end, he dropped the character after the fight with Khala, because the one area he didn't have impenatrable defenses was level drain. Once I cost him 4 levels from acid breath weapon, the party ended up winning but the player didn't want to play the character anymore because he knew Demogorgon would play a big role down the road and he didn't want to have to deal with level drain with his munchkin solo deathstar. So he goes and makes a new munchkin that was a Elan/Erudite that used various powers to divide his mind like 4 times and thus makes himself able to use 4 powers a round.

Maybe I just didn't understand how it worked, but he would draw cards, and had some way where when he had cycled through his cards that he reshuffled all of them and got to start over again. All I know for sure is that the Crusader was more broken than his Warblade and that is saying something. ToB is the first splatt book I have banned from all future campaigns I run after my experience with that. Granted I didn't have the time to read up on things, so he might have been lieing to me about how the mechanics worked to get an even bigger advantage. Thats just the sort of player he was. Thankfully we have gone our separate ways now.

I hate munchkins.

The cleric of Dagon makes sense, as by Prince of Demons, it is clear that Dagon is pulling the strings behind the scenes with Demogorgon. It is easy enough to make it such that Dagon is just trying to get Demo destroyed so that he can claim the mantle of Prince of Demons. Have the cleric become privy to this as he/she becomes powerful enough to be a favored agent of Dagon. Also let them look at the thrall of Dagon PRC in Dragon. It has a great lovecraftian feel that would work really well for an evil cleric of the Prince of the Darkened Depths.

I honestly don't know what to do. She's been nothing but nice to them, and I haven't played her as deceitful in any way, but for some reason the party has decided to despise her very core. While this is causing only minor issues now (just started Sea Wyvern's Wake) I worry about motivation down the line. Any suggestions on how to change a party's perception of an NPC?

WARNING POTENTIAL SPOILERS*************************************

Ok, my party thought for the longest time that Lavinia was actually the evil mastermind and Vanthus was the victim. I tried everything I could think of, but my group just wouldn't invest themselves in Lavinia because they were expecting a betrayal. Once I got Prince of Demons, I found the perfect way to give them what they wanted. In Wat Dagon, General Ghorvash is there with Vanthus as a larvae, and in the mag, it says he tells the PC's that he was Lavinia all along and he set them up. He further says he played Vanthus and the PC's etc. etc. In the Mag, it is clear that he is lieing, but I ran with it, and let the PC's use magic to test for truth and told them it was true. That made the fight and encounter with Ghorvash awesome. Since the PC's felt like there was this huge betrayal, all kinds of fun ensued when Ghorvash on the verge of being defeated told them that he had a double agent in their group, and the PC's went into this huge thing trying to figure out who the traitor was. It even hurt them in the fight with big D himself as the players wouldn't help each other trying to root out the traitor. They ultimately triumphed, but it made the whole thing so much better at the end that I ran with that when they got there. If your players can't shake that Lavinia is evil, don't disappoint them. Let Lavinia be Ghorvash and put things in the campaign to keep them guessing.

Hope that all helps.

I'm sorry to have to do this, but I need my subscription to Pathfinder cancelled. After getting the first one, it looks like a great product, but is a little expensive as a monthly gaming expense for me right now. Thanks in advance for your help.

Brent

I have been extremely open minded about 4th edition and early on spent quite a bit of time defending the decision. That said, with each new announcement I am getting more and more disappointed with what it is shaping up to be. I mean why even call it Dungeons and Dragons at all? Why not just admit that they are trashing the 30 magnificent years of the games lore and history, and don't give a flying dog feces about what their customers want. Seriously, the game they are describing so far sounds like some sleep deprived wacko up playing WoW and Evercrack while simultaneously sniffing Crank and drinking 37 cases of jolt and not taking their Ritalin for ADHD just decided, "hey, tabletop D&D is so suck, it should be more like this" right before getting a stroke from his 72 hour crank/sugar induced gaming bender.

The fact that they are wrapping this pile of dog excrement in a box and calling it D&D pisses me off. If you want to make some new game because you think the market for traditional D&D is dead, by all means do so, but sell the freaking license to real gamers who love the game so that real D&D isn't sacrificed at the altar of whatever idiot is running this circus.

Thanks for the clarification Hamster. To point out how powerful the Monolith can be using the same combos described already, you would have a creature that has 583 hp (36d8+255 base, +22 Minor Esoterica, +72 Augment Summoning, +72 Augment Elemental) he also has DR 15/- and a grapple modifier of +61.

In terms of attack power, if you use the combo I describe earlier, but subbing in Summon Elemental Monolith and Summon Monster IX, by the 2nd round fighting Demogorgon, optimally you will get a creature that has an attack bonus of +71 (+40 base, +2 Augment Summoning, +2 Augment Elemental, +2 flanking, +2 Earth Mastery, +1 Haste, +22 aid another benefit) on 3 slam attacks a round with a damage output of 6d8+22. If you power attack down to +51 you will get a total of 3 slam attacks at a bonus of +51 with damage of 6d8+42. In one round, the monolith will deal 18d8+126 damage. On average that will be 207 points of damage a round.

Even that though doesn't compare to the supercharged version of the orb of cold trick. Using Twin Spell, Empower Spell, Metamagic School Focus, and Orb of Cold, you can deal a total of 90d6 damage (15d6 twinned for 30d6, then empowered to 45d6 then doubled for the Major School Esoterica effect). On average this will deal 315 pts of damage, or if you use a greater maximization rod with this combo, over 500 pts of damage in one round.

One additional thought I just had, is that any dedicated summoner at 13th level needs to have a Ring of Mighty Summons. It halves the duration of your summons, but at 13th level that isn't a problem. In exchange, your summoned monsters get maximum hit points per hit die. Couple that with a Greater Rod of Extending, and you get the normal duration if you want it. Expanding on my example from above, the Huge Water Elemental would have 285 hp (16d8+80 hp base, +13 from Minor Esoterica, +32 for Augment Summoning, +32 for Augment Elemental, all at maximum possible from Ring of Mighty Summons).

The medium elementals would all have 59 hp(4d8+12 base, +13 from Minor Esoterica, +8 from Augment Summoning, +8 from Augment Elemental)or as many as 73 if you used the ring again. At the highest levels in the Abyss, Summon Elemental Monolith is probably a bit better than Gate for a dedicated summoner, because it doesn't cost XP, it benefits from all the usual elemental stuff, and coupled with the swift cast and a wave of weaker elementals to aid another, you can do some truely sick damage with say an Earth Monolith.

(Paz, look away now please!)

I’m just wondering how useful summons have been in STAP. From HTBM, one player is planning on creating a conjurer (wizard)/master specialist who specializes in summons, using the conjurer variants from UA/D20srd.org.
Will the summoned monsters be any use in these- and later- adventures? For example:

Best Summons (Summon Monster) Against Adventure BBEG
HTBM- Celestial Lion- No effect.
TOD- Celestial Brown Bear- Marginal
TLD- Celestial Dire Lion- Marginal
COBI- Avoral or Celestial Elephant- No effect, more or less

For comparison (with Summon Nature’s Ally)
Best Summons Against Adventure BBEG
HTBM- Dire Wolverine- No effect, more or less
TOD- Dire Lion- Marginal
TLD- Dire Bear- Reasonable
COBI- Tyrannosaurus- Marginal

Against the non-BBEGs, the summoned monsters will presumably be a little more useful, BUT although I’ve not looked at adventures 8-12 yet, I’m pretty certain that summon spells (except Gate) will become even more useless as the PCs level up.
I’m a little worried that the player will become frustrated at the ineffectiveness of his strategy; plus, the summoned monsters will slow down combat further by having other participants in the combat.
Note that I’m not asking for people’s opinions on conjurers in STAP in general (this was covered in a different thread), but on being a summoning specialist in STAP. (BTW, the conjurer’s prohibited schools will be Enchantment, Evocation & Necromancy.) Anyone have experience or opinions on this?

My first question is why does the character have 3 prohibited schools? Master Specialist doesn't require it, but it would if he was taking the Focused Specialist Variant. As for Summons in general, Arcane summons can be quite useful, but the player needs to understand how to use them effectively. For example, in CoBI, the Master Specialist Major Esoterica will let the summoner swift cast any conjuration spell he knows with a casting time of a standard action. Couple that with the Rapid Summoning Variant from UA, and he could summon 2 Huge Elementals in the same round. He needs to place them both a minimum of 10 ft back from their target (lets use Khala as our example here) so that they can charge simultaneously and get flanking besides. He should also have Imbued Summoning and can either add in Rage or Haste to the summoned critters as part of the summoning without increasing the spells level through use of metamagic school focus. Lets assume he summons 2 Water Elementals because of all the water in Khala's Chamber. The elementals on their charge attacks will have an attack bonus of +27 (+17 base, +2 Augment Summoning, +2 Flanking, +2 Charge, +2 Augment Elemental, +1 Water Mastery, +1 Haste). They will do 2d10+12 (+7 for str, +2 Augment Summoning, +2 Augment Elemental, +1 Water Mastery). If he can set it up with Earth Elementals, the they will have an attack bonus of +29 and do 2d10+14 damage. If they power attack down such that they will hit on a 10 or better (half the time) they can do 2d10+16 and 2d10+20 respectively on their hits. Alternatively, he could summon 2 Celestial Elephants using the same charge and swift cast dual summon trick and if smart will also have Metamagic School Focus Conjuration and Imbue Summoning so that he can get Haste onto them as well, and then have them use their smite ability on the partial charge and get two attacks at +23 (+16 base atk, +2 Augment Summoning, +2 charging, +2 Flanking, +1 Imbued Haste). They will do 2d8+29 damage each when smite is added in to their gore attack and Augment Summoning benefits. If the water is deep enough in Khala's Chamber, (I don't remember if it is), he could summon 2 Bhaleen Whales and using the smite effect like with the elephants will yield 2 attacks at +24 (base +17, +2 Augment Summoning, +2 flanking, +2 charging, +1 haste) with damage of 1d8+33 damage each with the benefit of their smite ability.

Another valid tactic is to use a swarm tactic where you have one hitter, and the rest use aid another to boost that ones hitting power. Using the Water elemental example from above, use the first summoning to summon the Huge Elemental in a position to charge. Then use the second to summon 1d4+1 Medium Elementals and have them surround Khala but not in the line of the charge from the huge one, and have all of them aid another to help boost the chargers attack bonus. So if you roll averagely, you will summon 3 mediums with this tactic on the second summon. They need to hit an AC of 10 to aid another, which they will succeed on with any roll other than a 1 (base attack +6, +2 for Augment Summoning, +1 Water Mastery). That adds another +6 (1 for each elemental)and could be as high as +10 if you manage to get 5 elementals with the second summoning. So the charging elementals attack bonus, which brings that one up to +31 (+17 base, +2 Augment Summoning, +2 Flanking, +2 Charging, +1 Water Mastery, +1 Haste, +6 aid another benefit) with damage output of 2d10+12, drop your bonus down to 23 for a hit rate of 50/50 and that goes up to 2d10+20. Using the same tactic with the Earth Elemental, your attack bonus would be +33, with damage of 2d10+14. If you power attacked down to 23 for 50/50 hit odds, then you would do 2d10+24 damage on a hit.

After the charge rounds, the hasted summons will get between 2 and 3 attacks a round. On the 2nd round you can summon in even more monsters to continue to aid another. With the elementals and Khala being large, you can have as many as 11 medium elementals on the aid another attempts which optimally can bring the Huge elementals attack up to as high as +49 on 3 slam attacks a round for the Huge Earth elemental (+19 base, +2 Augment Summoning, +2 Augment Elemental, +2 Flanking, +1 Haste, +1 Earth Mastery, +22 aid another from medium elementals surrounding Khala), If you power attack down to +33 You would get a total damage of 2d10+30. Since all 3 attacks will likely hit, you will have a total of 6d10+90 damage. Not too shabby at all for level 13. The summonings are just fine you just have to know how to use them. Applying the same concept to Water Elementals, the Huge Water elemental beater will do base attack +47 (+17 base, +2 Augment Summoning, +2 Augment Elemental, +2 flanking, +1 Haste, +1 Water Mastery, +22 Aid another from medium elementals surrounding Khala), and if power attacking as the earth elemental down to an attack bonus of 31, will do 2d10+28 per hit, and 6d10+84 damage with haste and 3 successful slam attacks.

On a side note, if you use the major esoterica along with Twin Spell, Metamagic school focus, and Orb of Cold you can get off 52d6 points of damage on a creature in a single round at 13th level (each orb does 13d6, twinned for 26d6, and 2 castings in the same round with the major esoterica). If he has also taken Sudden Empower, he can bump that up to 65d6 by empowering one of the castings. That only requires a ranged touch attack twice, and doesn't allow a saving throw. On average that is 182 pts of damage, or if you can sudden empower one an average of 227 pts of damage. Again this is all at 13th level. Conjurers are amongst the most devastating specialists there are.

When it comes to Khala, there are a few things to keep in mind that affect what you are talking about. First, is he has a SR of 28. According to the adventure guidlines, the party should be level 14 when facing him. Even with a player who has full caster progression, and the Spell Penetration feat, they will have to roll a 12 on the d20 to get the ray through his SR. Then if they succeed in that, they need to hit a touch AC of 16. Again, assuming a dedicated caster, they will have a base attack of +7 at that point, and probably a Dex modifier between +4 and +5 at that point, but at a -4 if firing into melee. Thus they need to hit a touch AC of basically 20 with a ranged touch modifier of around +10 or so. That means they have only 50/50 odds of hitting his touch AC. So you take the 40% chance they have to get by SR, and then add on to that the 50% chance they will hit his AC, and you only have 20% odds that they can do both. If they make it through bot of those, good for them. Once he is affected, he can cast Greater Dispel Magic at will at 20th caster level. So he can dispel the effect on himself readily enough with a fairly inconsequential role on the dispel check.

I personally don't see a reason to mess with the spell itself. Khala is still allowed a standard action each round if affected by the spell. More to the point, he has 6 Skulvyns and their associated slow auras along with a summoned retriever backing him up. If the PC's come from the main entrance, you can place things such that the PC's have to face 6 saving throws against Slow auras, and have to do that while the Retriever sits back and peppers them with eye rays the whole time. The Slow aura requires a DC 19 will save to overcome, so your casters will likely make it easily enough, but your melee types likely will fail at least one of them. If your caster is spending every round casting Ray of Diziness, then they aren't using artillery type spells to hurt Khala. If your melee type is tied up by Slow auras, then there is no easy way to hurt Khala until the caster starts using offensive magic. Since Khala can dispel every round, the party will eventually run out of Ray of Dizziness spells and realize they need to actually try to hurt Khala. If the party uses it just to buy themselves a round so Khala has to spend that round dispelling the effect, then good for them. They are thinking well ahead. If they plan to just fight him at range, while keeping him occupied with Ray of Diziness, then no worries. Set up the Skulvyn's to block the entrance, and then have the retriever and Khala used their ranged attacks. The retriever basically gets a 12d6 energy attack every round as a free action, and Khala gets a 6d6 acid plus 1 level drain every round using his breath attack. Just pepper the party until they are forced to do something to engage or do something else. Better yet, have Khala start off hiding, and projecting an image to the party. They likely won't bother to figure out the projected image isn't Khala and fire away. Let them burn that Ray of Diziness on his image while the Retriever and Skulvyns wear them down. Then have Khala cast his Feeblemind on the caster (total save DC of 22, but at a -4 penalty if the character is a primary caster). Then have Khala get in close where the party has to avert their eyes to avoid making Will saves every round against his two gaze attacks. If they can't see him, they can't target him.

I never like nerfing spells or the like to try to make fights harder for the players. There are better ways to do things. Heck, if you just have Khala start off within 30 ft of where the players enter, everyone has to make two DC 27 will saves every round to avoid being affected by fear or confusion. Even a dedicated caster has only a 50/50 chance to make a DC 27 will save, and that is if they have some decent saving throw boosting abilities or items. To avoid the saves they have to avert their eyes, which means no targeting Ray spells.

I think if the players manage to use the spell then they shouldn't be penalized for it, and even if they do, that is no guarantee that Khala is done. He is plenty tough enough as is, especially when factoring in his environment and his minions without unnecessarily nerfing a spell that he can deal with using greater dispel magic every round if necessary.

Kale's Diary will start production this week. New monitor means I can look at my screen for more then 5 minutes without getting head aches! Plus my trip to TO is done. :) Posting will only happen when Tristan's diary is on par with Kale's. No spoilers for you guys! I'll be posting it right here in this thread.

Totally awesome Katt. I can't wait to see some of this from Kale's perspective. He strikes me as the character that serves as the party's moral anchor. I can't wait to see how he reacts to certain things, especially his perspective on his relationship with Tristan.

Brent wrote:

Anyhow Guy, don't put my name in the journal for the heck of it.

Don't worry Brent, with an adventure of this size and scope, there's always unnamed NPCs running around. Had I had this kind of contest sooner you might have ended up as passenger or Crew aboard the Sea Wyvern. As it so happens this week or next I'll be writing about our last hoo-raw on the island of Renkrue and I have a slot for an unnamed bartender. Give me a quick description of how you'd like to see your self and I'll slide you into the story.

I would like to see myself as the sort of NPC who has just the right thing to say that the party needs to hear, even though they aren't aware that it was the right thing when it happened. Beyond that, characterize me however you like. It will make it interesting to see what you come up with. Thanks by the way. I love reading this journal, and it is a total geek-gasm to actually get my name into it, even as just a bartender or whatever.

I'll be looking forward to that appearance when you can work it in. Later,

Brent

Arctaris wrote:

Congrats on the new gamer-to-be Allen!

Thank you. My wife and I are naming her Allyson.

Congrats Allen

I have a slight conundrum for my ongoing pathfinder subscription. I lost my check card/debit card the other day, and as a consequence had to call them to deactivate the card and issue new ones. Anyway, the card number will change, but I won't have it for a week to 10 days. I don't want there to be a lapse in my subscription, so what options do I have? I don't have any other credit cards (smartest financial decision I've ever made), but I am worried the next issue is going to need to ship before my card is replaced. Let me know what options I might have. I would be happy to give you guys my new card number when it arrives, but I want to make sure my subscription doesn't get dropped in the meantime.

Wow, I got it right. Anyhow Guy, don't put my name in the journal for the heck of it. I want to earn it if it happens at all. Otherwise it won't be as exciting. Also, to clarify what I was saying about Tristan's detioration... It isn't so much that I think the exposure to the Far Realm is giving her a shorter fuse, so much as it seems that she is getting more "frayed" around the edges. Early in the story, she was very proper, and almost the quintessential definition of "noble". Lately however, she seems to be becoming more visceral. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but just reading the story, it feels like you can see something is changing in Tristan's personality, even if the source of that thing isn't completely apparent yet.

Ok, how about this one...

If it's right, maybe I can still get my name as a cameo in the journal.

I placed this order for Dungeon back issues on August 24, but I haven't recieved any information that it has shipped yet, and my card hasn't been billed. So I was wondering when this is scheduled to leave the warehouse? There isn't a huge rush, I just want to make sure there isn't any problems. Thanks!!!

The thing I really like about this most recent journal entry, is that we are beginning to see the effect of the contact with the far realm on Tristan's mind. Her shorter temper, and more callous view of those around her is all undoubtedly due to her growing insanity. It'll be interesting to watch as she further devolves into madness.

Further thinking about it - and this depends on how much "payback" you think the PCs deserve - Kedward is a diabolist and regularly consorts with demons, maybe he had a standing pact with a demon to avenge him if he is ever slain?

You're right, but it's devils Kedward consorts with. He is a diabolist, not a demonologist. I would maybe have him use Greater Planar Binding to summon a Pit Fiend, then have the Pit Fiend exact some revenge. At the end of Serpents of Scuttlecove, the PC's are supposed to be 17th level, so have the Pit Fiend attack when they are 16th level and don't expect it, preferrably after a fight with someone else like the Crimson Fleet's pirates. At CR 20, a Pit Fiend will be a fearsome fight for 16th level PC's, and remind them there are consequences to assasinating powerful individuals of evil organizations.

Personally? I really hate this. It's disrespectful of the past 30 years of D&D devil/demon tradition, for one thing. For another, it invalidates a lot of the Fiendish Codex I and the Demonomicon and a lot of other stuff I've worked on. It's hard for me not to feel insulted a little by this decision.

Plus, I suspect it's going to create a barrier for established D&D players that didn't need to exist.

QFT

I couldn't have said it any better. If this is the direction they go with the flavor of the game, I don't care how great the new mechanics are. I have been very openminded about the changes of 4th edition and even looking forward to them. This though crosses the line. It's like some yahoo up with the suits decided his idea for the game is so much better than the established traditions of the last 30 years, that he would just get rid of all that stuff he didn't like. This sort of screwing with what came before is what will make me not move on to 4th edition.

The thing this blog told me that I don't want to hear about 4th ed., is they aren't respecting the history and tradition of the game. There are sacred cows in D&D. If those cows are touched, then it just isn't D&D anymore, no matter how streamlined it is or how many shiny new toys it offers. They are blowing the pooch on this. I would love to know what yutz it was that came up with the idea of making Ice Devils into Yugoloths, and then making all seductive evil female outsiders in Succubii, that are now Devils? What crack were these people smoking when they pulled this garbage out of their arses. Terrible terrible news. Why not just change the name of the game all together. They can call it "Wizards of the Coast's Lame Attempt at Making a Totally Different Game out of the Greatest RPG Ever Invented Just Because We Can and You Can't Do Anything About It". What were these guys thinking? What's next, no beholders or mind flayers or drow?

It seems like in Pirates of the Caribbean, there are multiple mortal baddies at the same time. I would like to add another pirate, opposed to Vanthus and the heroes. I want him to be an ordinary pirate, but one that works for Orcus in a manner similar to how the Heroes work for Malcathet. Where would a good place to put him be? I'm already going to insert this guy into "The Sea wyvern's wake," and I hope that the Sea wyvern will duel his ship at some point.

Any pointers?

If your pirate is going to be recurring and a servant of Orcus, I would give him a strong death motif. Maybe a level or two of Dread Necromancer, or some Gish style build. Have him wear lots of skulls of dead enemies and the like and maybe fight with a Sickle or Scythe instead of a rapier or cutlass. When Vanthus gets boosts, give him boosts. So when Vanthus becomes a Lemorian, give him an undead template. When Vanthus comes back as a death night, let him also be on the abyss but as a more powerful undead. Then when you are planning the assault on Gaping Maw in Enemies of My Enemy, this undead pirate can be a big part of your negotiation with Orcus. Ideally have the PC's develop a relationship of some sort with this pirate.

For overall classes, you want something that fits well as a pirate like Swashbuckler or something, but you also want some strong undead magic whether divine or arcane. Stormwrack has some great PRC's for Sea Based casters. Perhaps one of them would appeal to you. The Thrall of Orcus class from Book of Vile Darkness might also be a good choice, although it needs to be updated for 3.5 like some of the ones that were updated in the various Demonomicons.

Hope all that helps.

Gromsfed is indeed a great villain. Personally, I would give him unholy toughness if the PC's manage to take care of General Tetradarian with Bagromar. In that case, Gromsfed is a solo fight and his HP is more important. By contrast, if Tetradarian is there, the PC's can't concentrate all their firepower on Gromsfed, so the Unholy Toughness feat probably isn't needed.

As for tweaking the STAP villains in general, it has been my experience that when I would do that I usually ended up with a TPK on my hands because I was underestimating how strong a villain is. So be careful before twinking the creatures in the STAP overly much. Towards the end of the campaign it becomes a real meatgrinding war of attrition as every battle drains the party of precious resources for the fight against the Prince of Demons.

Obviously, you should do whatever works best for your group of players. That said, I've found the STAP to be plenty deadly enough on it's own, even when my party was at levels higher than they were supposed to be in the campaign. The goal is to have fun. I found I achieve that goal best when I test the characters to their mortal limits and kill them if possible, but not to make inherently impossible challenges for them to face. The threat of death has to be real for suspension of disbelief, but this campaign is so much more rewarding for everyone if players have a shot of making it to the end of the campaign with their original characters. In fact, my players that managed to do so felt like they had earned a badge of honor. I would even suggest perhaps a "wall of fame" where the names of characters that make it alive from 1st level to the end of the AP's be put on some sort of list on your wall or DM screen as legendary heros that triumphed against all odds. It will make the campaign even more special when they finally stop the Savage Tide.

There are so many opportunities to make puppy chow out of the PC's in this campaign, that I wouldn't worry over much about trying to tweak things. Your mileage may vary. Best of luck!!!

KattHunter wrote:

Well, the players just got entry 12 last night. You guys are in for a good laugh! There's a particular sceane that was writen up pretty close to how it was RPed.

This comment was about the latest Lidu post on this site. Kale's short lived diary starts very soon in the Lidu story line. I haven't got to work on it yet, but I still do have everything down in pencil. It's needs heavy editing!

Talking about what drives Kale. Well he's got the good old love for adventuring. Though as time went on, he felt like he was the person keeping the part from falling to far to the dark side. Kale is often suspicious of Tristan's intent. He trusts her, but sometimes worries she's loosing her mind. At least at this point in the story.
Oh Brent I loved "Company of the Dreaming Wyvern"! It was cleaver enough that Kale wouldn't catch it's hidden meaning. It was my #1. "Swords of Sasserine" was my #3 pick. Sorry I tried Brent. LOL

I appreciate it KattHunter. I was hoping my name might get to make a cameo appearance in the Lidu Diaries. Alas, not meant to be. I am really fascinated by the interrelationship between Kale and Tristan. It is part of what makes this diary such an interesting read.

Ok everyone, just a reminder that there are no new updates today, but next week the saga continues in an episode I like to call “operation: bloody mess” or “where's an egg?”

So tune in next week for more Lidu fun (and insanity) and remember your comments and questions are always welcome.

My only real comment at this point is that I wish these diaries happened more than biweekly. I understand everyone has real life responsibilities, so I am not complaining as such. It's just this diary is among the best campaign journals on the site. I would put it right up there with James Jacobs Tyralindi Scrimm journal for Age of Worms in terms of how much I enjoy reading it. Great Job!!

If I had to pick 7 books besides the core 3, I would be looking at those books that gave me the most bang for buck so to speak. So my list just off the top of my head would go...

Spell Compendium
Magic Item Compendium
Rules Compendium (yeah yeah I know it isn't out, but it will be in a few more months)

After those 3, I would take as many of the Complete Series as you can if you are going to be primarily playing, or as many of the Monster Manual/Monster Ecology type books that you can if you are primarily DMing. All that said, if you want the best of both worlds, bring an AP to run while you are gone as it will take about a year, and 12 magazines don't weigh that much. Then you can focus on the Complete Books and such instead of monster books as everything you need to run the AP's is in the adventures.

Hope that helps. Personally, I don't think I could limit it down to 10 books or even 30. My D&D collection is my primary form of entertainment and in truth my one indulgence. Best of luck overseas!!!

Not broken. It's a great spell for its level. As far as making a powerful opponent unable to take actions for x rounds, most likely lower level opponents won't beat on the guy for enough damage to kill him anyway. He still gets his armor bonus and most other bonuses as well, though he takes a -4 penalty to his AC and attack rolls, but the dude should have a high enough AC and hit points that a low level group will simply not hit the guy enough times or deal enough damage to kill him before the spell expires. BTW, I've seen PCs knocked prone that just wailed away on their opponents on their backs and kicked the holy crap out of them without ever standing back up until after the fight.

The arguments against the spell are pretty weak to me. Sounds nitpicky and you would have to throw out about half the spells in the book by the logic being used. THL is one of the spells that works less times than it succeeds. If your players get lucky with it, bravo for them for using the spells exactly as it was intended and pulling out a cool and hilarious victory that they can brag about with their friends. That's what the game is all about, man.

QFT

I have a question that pertains to this adventure now that I have looked through my PDF of it. There are a number of instances where two books I haven't heard of were referenced. One was the "Book of Fiends", is this a Gamemastery product? If so, does it build on work from things like the Fiendish Codex line? Another one referenced was the "Tome of Horrors I". Is this also in the Gamemastery line? If so I may have to look at buying both, but anyone who can shed some light on this would be greatly appreciated.

If I had to pick two favorite adventures for me as DM when I ran them, Here There Be Monsters was incredible. It is amazing how much you can get into your players heads with Olangru, the Fogmire, and just some old school wierd stuff happening. At late levels, Enemies of My Enemy was ultra cool for all the "holy &%$!@! that is ORCUS!!!!" moments. I think my players figured themselves for dead at least 3-5 times in that adventure without even being in a fight.

Other really notable ones IMHO were the Sea Wyvern's Wake (great adventure that wasn't "run of the mill" with lots of unique encounters), Tides of Dread (defense of Farshore was so awesome with Vanthus as the big payoff at the end), City of Broken Idols (old school Isle of Dread goodness with Khala being one of the toughest encounters for level in the entire AP), and Prince of Demons (even if the group weakens him significantly, it is the Prince of Freakin Demons!!).

Overall, I think STAP was the best AP of the first 3, with AoW being a close second. The guys at Dungeon really know what they are doing, and that more than anything makes me excited about Pathfinder.

Heh, glitterdust is one of my "must have" spells...passable detection of invisible creatures and a nice area attack with a Will save.

Agreed, Glitterdust is one of the best all around low level spells. A must have spell for sure. I think of it as being a lot like Grease in terms of it's utility. There are so many things a creative player can do with spells like that. They sometimes get overlooked for more "flashy" spells, but my casters always get more mileage out of Glitterdust than say Scorching Ray, which is probably the most commonly taken 2nd level spell along with Invisibility.

Tasha's Hideous Laughter really isn't all that bad as far as enchantments go. I wouldn't house rule anything about it, as it is a 2nd level spell for everyone but the Bard. Bard's already have few options in battle that aren't buffs, so letting them shine every now and again with a well placed enchantment isn't unbalancing IMVHO. There are far more broken spells at those low levels than THL.

I would just congratulate your player on an effective tactic and move on. The AoW is full of bad guys that are going to eat your party's lunch. No need to worry about that. Like the STAP, it is an incredibly well designed AP, and will give you plenty of opportunity to make your players soil there pants with all manner of bodily excrement.

I'm looking to buy extra hard copies of all the savage tide issues, and the Paizo store doesn't have Dungeon 139 in stock. I can get all the others and the players guide here, but I need to find that first issue.

Based on Tristan's leadership role and her obsession with the far realm, maybe something like The Company of Cthulu's Coils or the Eyes of Madness. Not sure how some of the characters like Kale would feel about that. Since there is a Cthulu element and the Sea Wyvern is so important, how about the Wyvern's Tentacles or The Wyvern's Madness. Since Tristan always ends her journal with Cthulu Dreams, perhaps something like the Company of the Dreaming Wyvern.

Meh, what do I know about group names anyway. Just thought I would brainstorm a few ideas on the off chance something sticks.

Brent wrote:

The whole point is you have to get that first person to try it, and to do it, you have to offer something that will make them take a chance on it instead of playing EQ that day. In todays high tech gaming world, it's the best way to try to bring new players to the game, who don't already have friends or family that play it. I would think that is something all D&D players should want. A growing player base is the surest sign of a healthy game.

Well, so you claim that a service for which you have to sign up (and which will cost money to do so), where you still need to shell out >30$ for just the ability to get a glimpse into it will attract many new players? I doubt it, frankly.

I've had several incidents of "recruitment" in my play experience. Usually it was someone vaguely interested in the hobby expressing an interest to sit in on a gaming session, and deciding she liked it enough to pay for the necessary books. It just never happened the other way around in my experience, and hence, i am somewhat critical of your scenario.

It may have something to do with me being an old fart way up in Old Europe. Maybe it will all be good in New Europe ;)

I think it could be viable. The average EQ player buys what 2 expansions a year? Those will cost $30 or so. On top of that they are paying $10-$15 per month for the right to play. So if our hypothetical kid buys a PHB for $30 and then $15 per month for the Digital Initiative, he isn't really spending anymore than he would on the MMORPG anyway. All he needs to play with the Digital Initiative is a PHB because all the tools to make characters, role dice, and find a group to play with are available online. People play in PBP games all the time now a days, and the DI doesn't sound very different from that except it is in real time as opposed to one post at a time, and all the tools are right there on the sight, along with expanded content.

I could be wrong, but I think the game as consructed under it's current model is very hard for a new player to try. My cousin has a son and he has experessed an interest in playing D&D, but he lives in Oklahoma, I live in Kansas. He bought a PHB, but didn't bother with anything else because he couldn't find a group of friends to play with. Ultimately he ended up just getting on LotR online and does that. I think the 4ed rules and digital components will make it easier for a kid like my cousins son to play D&D. That as much as anything excites me about 4ed.

@ TerraNova

No of course I don't look forward to playing with total strangers in a story that doesn't involve me. That won't be a problem though because I have a group to game with. The point of that is to try to get the person who isn't already playing the game to try it. If the only people who support D&D are the ones presently playing it, then the game will die. I want new players to come to the game, and candidly there needs to be a better vehicle for doing that than just having all the present gamers try to find some young person and invite them to the game. The game itself needs to have a built in mechanism for the kid who maybe sees the PHB in a store and says "that looks cool, I want to try it", and then realizes that he needs to find a group to play with, and all his friends are playing EQ or WoW. So what does he do? With the 4ed initiative, he can go ahead and buy that PHB, and go online to find a group to play with. If he has fun, he will tell his friends, "hey, you should try this game I bought. They have a place online you can join a group, since I know you have soccer practice after school and I have to work on my paper, you can try it and maybe we can play later if you like it". Now the second player trys it when he has the chance, and because it is similar to his MMORPG experience it is easy for him to learn and he has a ton of fun. So now maybe they pick up the MM and DMG and try to schedule time to play with their friends.

The whole point is you have to get that first person to try it, and to do it, you have to offer something that will make them take a chance on it instead of playing EQ that day. In todays high tech gaming world, it's the best way to try to bring new players to the game, who don't already have friends or family that play it. I would think that is something all D&D players should want. A growing player base is the surest sign of a healthy game.

Brent wrote:

They have to compete for a market share with the younger crowd that has grown up on video games and MMORPG's.

I disagree. I do not think you can serve two masters. If you want to make video games, then you better focus on making video games or the video game industry will eat you alive. That is a highly competitive market. Personally, I do not want my role playing to become more like a video game. I enjoy video games as much as the next 25-35 year old white male protestant. I enjoy telling a good story around a table with all my friends even more. Is that really so niche that it can not survive on its own?

I'm not saying that tabletop RPG's need to become video games. What I am saying is that entrance into the tabletop RPG needs to become easier for a player that hasn't done it before. You don't try to replace video games, you try to make your game accessible enough that the people who are playing video games are also interested in trying tabletop D&D because there are features about it that are similar to a video game in terms of getting started.

Having an online community set up so people can play D&D if they don't have a group of friends is huge. In effect, if you get one person who hasn't played it to try it, if he likes it he will tell his friends, and then they will try it. Eventually, that group might move to playing the game at the table with each other at home instead of online. In effect you found a way to insert your paper and pencil RPG into the purchasing consciousness of a gamer who is a "video game" person.

It's not about trying to take the entire video game market. It's about making yourself more accessible to the average player who is deciding between trying D&D or not. If you don't already have a group of friends, it can be hard to find such a group, and with the complexity of parts of the rules, many players will give up and do something else before they have even actually tried the game at all. A kid is more likely to try the game if all they have to do is buy a PHB and pay a subscription fee to find people to play with than they are if they have to buy 3 core books, and then on top of that try to get a group of friends together to play it and then teach those friends how to play it when they haven't had a chance to try it before. If you get enough kids who give it a test run through the online medium, you will get a percentage of those as tabletop gamers who introduce it to their friends, who introduce to their friends, and so on and so forth. The bottom line though, is how to you get the player who has never played D&D, and hasn't been exposed to it.

Noone likes change. That doesn't mean that the change won't make things better. 3ed was a huge improvement over 2ed, and I have every reason to believe that 4ed could be a huge improvement over 3ed. The D&D game isn't perfect, and I see the new edition and digital initiative as ways for WotC to make the game more accessible and fun for everyone.

No

It is as simple as that. If the 4th Edition sucks, i will neither buy nor play it. There is no "Great Cause" here. There is nothing to be gained or lost. If the 4th Edition sucks, it is a bad game and as such, nothing i would spend my money on.

Do you really want the typical Everquest / WoW kid at your gaming table? Are you willing to make sacrifices for that? I sure as hell don't. Roleplaying has lived through the religious zealotry of the 80s, boomed with the publication of 3.0, and it will also live on as long as people have fun playing it.

If you want to not have fun for some "greater good", i am not stopping you. But i for one have always played for fun, and the large picture worked itself out somehow.

I do play for fun. What is it about 4ed that implys it will be inherently not fun? The only argument I have heard against 4ed thus far is of the "I spent thousands of dollars on 3ed, and by God I won't switch to 4ed even if it is fun" variety.

As for the "greater good", you have to be naive if you think that economic viability isn't an important part of the success of any game. D&D 3.5 is a lot of fun, but that doesn't change the fact that the average teenager will spend their money on the entertainment that is easiest to access. Tabletop D&D is not easy to get started in. You have to have a group of 4 or 5 friends who all want to play. You have to learn a rule set that can be complicated if you aren't familiar with it. You have to schedule time to play, because you can't just go to your computer, turn it on, and play when you want. 4ed sounds like it is trying to address all those problems with a 24 hour online gaming network, online tools to help with the more complicated aspects of game play, and streamlining of the core rule set.

As for your condescending attitude about the "typical EQ" player and not wanting them at your table, it is incredibly short sighted and narrow minded. MMORPG's have become such a large part of mainstream gaming culture, that any young person who considers playing D&D now has likely at least tried if not utterly committed to playing an MMORPG or other online fantasy game. It's the effect technology has had. It's easier to go online where there are thousands of people at any one time who want to play the game you want to than it is to try to get 4 or 5 friends together at the same time to play a table top game. Are you trying to imply that if someone plays an MMORPG, then we don't want them playing "our" game anyway? If you want to be stuck with the same books you have now 30 years from now, playing the game with only people your age or older, then by all means feel that way. Fortunately the people who actually make these decisions aren't that short sighted.

The goal of WotC is to make the game as fun as possible for the largest possible audience. That is how they will make profits. I don't understand the mentality that says "if WotC is making money, they clearly aren't interested in making the game better or more fun, those money grabbing bastiges". WotC stands to gain the most if the game is the most fun to the largest number of people. That said, I don't think they are sacrificing the fun of the game at all in making changes to better appeal to a changing group of customers.

I don't want tabletop D&D to become an unsupported game only played by old farts like me who will be forced to use rulebooks we have now, because the lack of viability for the product forced the companies that make it to go in different directions. You can believe there is no great cause to fight for here, but that doesn't change the fact that it exists anyway. It's like jumping off a building and saying you don't care because there is no such thing as gravity. If you jump you will splat. If D&D doesn't adapt, it won't survive except as a game played by an aging group, and then it will die out completely once that group is gone.

Finally, I am tired of all the insinuations that WotC is some sort of evil coporate monster only interested in money. They are a business. In order to exist and make the games we all love, they have to make a profit. That means getting new customers, not just pandering to their old ones. Is their model perfect? Of course not, but the game is in far better hands today than it was when the game almost disappeared completely at the hands of TSR. Making money and making a great game are not mutually exclusive goals. You can achieve both, and I think WotC is doing their dead level best to achieve exactly that.

I just read Bastions rallying cry on 4e, and WotC need to win this fight. I want to say that that thing is Quoted for the Effing Truth. He hit the nail square on the head with a huge hammer. This hobby is on the brink, and the table top RPG is at a crossroads that will determine if D&D will even exist for our kids and their kids. He said it best, but to reiterate it, the kids that are the same age as we were when we first started playing D&D have grown up on video games and the MMORPG. They are the ones that represent the vast amount of money in the gaming industry. If a game is to succeed, it has to reach that core audience.

When we were kids, playing D&D was great because there weren't gags of digital alternatives to take our attention and money and gaming as a whole was largely a group experience. Now, it has become an individual experience played alone in your room with a computer, with an online community being the social component. The simple truth is that the average 13 year old interested in fantasy gaming is more likely to spend the $15 a month on a WoW or EQ game than they are to buy the 3 core books and try to start a D&D group. So WotC has to bridge the gap between the game and those players. If they don't succeed, there won't be a D&D except as a game played by a bunch of 40 and 50 year olds with books that were written 20 years prior. The OGL will always exist, but if we want a living vibrant and supported game, we have to reach that audience. I think 4e is a solid effort to make that reach.

I for one look forward to what it will bring.

I wrote this in the other thread, but I think it applies here, because I am very optomistic about 4e now that I have heard a bit more about it. My single biggest fear was that they were phasing out the paper and pencil RPG for what would ultimately be a purely online MMORPG hybrid. The ideas they have sound very refreshing for the game, and I look forward to seeing what they have done.

Here is my longer comment to that effect from the other thread....

I'm personally somewhat excited about the new edition. I listened to the presentation at Gen Con, and personally think it sounds like they have some solid ideas. Anything that streamlines play is good as long as it doesn't take away from players giving their characters depth. As for resource management, I am an old school D&D person on that issue and don't like the idea of abilities that replenish over time as opposed to by the day. That said, the current market dictates that sort of change as well as the digital components. D&D isn't just trying to get it's market share from guys like me who have been playing for 20 years and will keep buying books even if they hadn't ever revised 1st edition. They have to compete for a market share with the younger crowd that has grown up on video games and MMORPG's. D&D, even in the 3.5 incarnation, was difficult to start playing if you were new to the game compared to say WoW and also requires that you have a group of friends who wants to play. If you want to get some of that consumer's gaming budget, you have to offer something that appeals to them in terms of the same ease of use and instant gratification that the video games or MMORPG's offers.

It's all about staying economically viable in a gaming market where larger and larger shares of the market are becoming digital. The fact that they are still committed to producing the books and pencil and paper RPG is a good sign IMHO. As for whether the game will be better than 3.5 or not, I am willing to wait and see on that. This same sort of nashing of teeth occured when 2nd edition came out, when 3rd edition came out, and when 3.5 edition came out. It's the same old song and dance from gamers who don't like change to something they enjoy. I think we should all see what the game is like at the table before we write it off completely. I for one intent to buy all the core books and subscribe to the D&D Insider initially to take it for a test drive. If I don't like it, I will still have all my 3.5 edition stuff, and I will only be out the money the core books and a few months of the insider content cost me. If it turns out 4th edition is as much an improvement to the game as 3rd edition was over 2nd edition, they will have sold me in spades.

Lastly, I think everyone should back off the ledge a bit. A 4th edition was going to happen eventually. It was just a question of when. No matter when they released it whether now or 10 years from now, there would still be people that are angry they did it. D&D has grown a lot over the years, and I for one am looking forward to what the new edition might bring.

I'm personally somewhat excited about the new edition. I listened to the presentation at Gen Con, and personally think it sounds like they have some solid ideas. Anything that streamlines play is good as long as it doesn't take away from players giving their characters depth. As for resource management, I am an old school D&D person on that issue and don't like the idea of abilities that replenish over time as opposed to by the day. That said, the current market dictates that sort of change as well as the digital components. D&D isn't just trying to get it's market share from guys like me who have been playing for 20 years and will keep buying books even if they hadn't ever revised 1st edition. They have to compete for a market share with the younger crowd that has grown up on video games and MMORPG's. D&D, even in the 3.5 incarnation, was difficult to start playing if you were new to the game compared to say WoW and also requires that you have a group of friends who wants to play. If you want to get some of that consumer's gaming budget, you have to offer something that appeals to them in terms of the same ease of use and instant gratification that the video games or MMORPG's offers.

It's all about staying economically viable in a gaming market where larger and larger shares of the market are becoming digital. The fact that they are still committed to producing the books and pencil and paper RPG is a good sign IMHO. As for whether the game will be better than 3.5 or not, I am willing to wait and see on that. This same sort of nashing of teeth occured when 2nd edition came out, when 3rd edition came out, and when 3.5 edition came out. It's the same old song and dance from gamers who don't like change to something they enjoy. I think we should all see what the game is like at the table before we write it off completely. I for one intent to buy all the core books and subscribe to the D&D Insider initially to take it for a test drive. If I don't like it, I will still have all my 3.5 edition stuff, and I will only be out the money the core books and a few months of the insider content cost me. If it turns out 4th edition is as much an improvement to the game as 3rd edition was over 2nd edition, they will have sold me in spades.

Lastly, I think everyone should back off the ledge a bit. A 4th edition was going to happen eventually. It was just a question of when. No matter when they released it whether now or 10 years from now, there would still be people that are angry they did it. D&D has grown a lot over the years, and I for one am looking forward to what the new edition might bring.

Looks like the millions and millions of fans of the world's greatest roleplaying game crashed the WotC server as they waited with baited breath for the second coming of the messiah or the mandatory sodomization depending on how they feel about 4th edition. Personally, I think it is funny as hell that there was all of this build up only to get a server crash as all us gamer dorks dog piled onto the website to cheer like idiots or cry like prepubescent girls depending on how we feel about the new edition.

Ah the irony of it all.

Any chance you could do a brief writeup of Tristan's stats? Something along the lines of her levels in various classes, AC, HP, Magic Items, Feats, and any other information you want to toss in with it would be really cool. Reading her adventures is fun, but having an occasional update on her basic stats and such would make it even better IMHO.

If you don't want to bother with that, or don't have the time no big deal. I figure it doesn't hurt anything to ask.

In my game, the party's druid was affected by it, but the party kept him from transforming by using potions of lesser restoration until they could get to town and have a Cleric cast the remove disease.

I loved the Illustration of the Frogomoth On the editorial page of Issue# 150, funny cause just a couple days prior I was looking at MM2(1st Edition) at the frogomoth thinking of sticking one on the Isle of Dread but maybe a huge advanced version? Are there any stats for the frogomoth for the 3.5 version? Enworld probably has It right?

DAve

The Froghemoth was statted up for 3.5 in Dungeon 128 as part of the Champions Belt adventure for the Age of Worms.

Can anyone suggest a few powerful and interesting prestige classes for druids which could be useful in the STAP?

If you want something utterly broken, you could ask you DM to let you take Planar Shepard from Magic of Eberron I believe. Beyond that, there is one in Complete Adventurer that really builds on your wild shape ability, but at the expense of no caster progression called Master of Many Forms I believe. Beyond that, I am not sure. The Arcane Hierophant is good for a Druid/Wizard multi-class character. There were several other Druid related ones in Eberron besides the Planar Shepard, but that one was the most ridiculous in what it allowed you to do.

I really think that the lack of new spells for a Wizard in the STAP is something the DM needs to address. There have been a few places you already went through that I think would have been great for that. The most obvious example is the treasure room in the shrine of Zotzillaha earlier in Tides of Dread. Since you're in the battle of farshore, I assume you actually ran into that room. 20,000 gp is the value on each of the items the aspect will let you choose from, and the adventure explicitly states that the DM should taylor those treasures for his party because of the lack of civilization to purchase them from. I think a spellbook with several spells in it may be the best item for a Wizard character at that point because of the lack of opportunity or location to buy and scribe spells. If he gives you a spellbook, a single read magic later and you can memorize them without any additional scribing costs.

All of that said, I think you have done a great job with your spell choices. I don't see a weak choice in the bunch, and I also take all the Summon Monster spells when I play a summoner build. So I think your spell book is very solid given the choices you have had to work with. Also, let me say that I didn't mean to sound as though I was criticizing your character class choices. I think the Alienist thing sound awesome from a role-playing perspective, and I know first hand how formidable an alienest can be because one of the major NPC villains in my wifes campaign is an alienist that was in "conjuration school" with my character in her campaign, and the sheer scariness of facing creatures from the far realm has been amazing for me as a player in encounters with my old classmate and friend. Further, although I prefer the master specialist I know playing an alienist would be fun. So if anything I want to congratulate you on playing a great character concept. Again, I look forward to reading your journals and thanks again for sharing so much about your guys campaign. There are gags of ideas I can't wait to pilfer for my own campaign. I will be running the STAP for a new group fairly soon. I've already run it once through the 11th adventure, and eagerly await the last one. All my players have loved it so much they have told their friends about it, so now I have a second group begging me to run it.

Thanks again for the insights into your game.

uzagi wrote:

Sorry for the confusion, I was 'quoting' from memory (didn't have the bookshelf on me ) , and the PHB-II is simply something I always tend to forget about as a resource.

Thanks for clearing that up! Although the eberron one sounds better, I can't bring myself to buy into a new setting (or any WotC books right now – cancel dungeon and dragon mags . . . *grumble, grumble*)

uzagi wrote:

While I can see the attraction of "Instant Quickening" I keep wondering if it is a valid "first pick" at level 12th, but that is something only you can decide.

I just love the flexibility these sudden feats give me. Once I get it, one of my highest level spells can now be quickened.

uzagi wrote:

Good luck for part two of the ToD battle - it's going to be memorable

Thanks! I sure hope so!

I also like the "sudden" feats. That said, I don't really like Sudden Quicken because it has such a hefty cost in feats as prerequisites. To get the same basic effect, perhaps a metamagic rod of quickening is better? I will grant you they are as expensive as heck, but perhaps better overall for the character than spending so many feats.

I do like your character build. I think the master specialist is a better choice for a conjurer specialist than is alienist because of the school esoterica, but alienist is also a solid choice. Ironically enough, the conjurer I play in campaign my wife is running also chose Necromancy and Illusion as prohibited schools. I am actually building them using the Conjurer/Master Specialist/Argent Savant/Archmage build I suggested above. Plenty of summons, and a ton of damage dealing ability with all the force based spells.

Also, I really enjoy your campaign journal and look forward to reading it every couple of weeks as you update it. The second part of the battle for farshore is really awesome and gratifying in character if you have played from the beginning, so I look forward to hearing how that goes for your group.

I think another way to make a conjurer more effective from a combat standpoint is to look hard at a few prestige classes. Master Specialist is awesome for a Conjurer as over the course of 10 levels, it will give your summons more hp, make the dispel check higher to get rid of them, and allow you to cast any conjuration spell you know with a casting time of a standard action as a swift action 3 times per day. Also see if your DM will let you take the Rapid Summoning variant from Unearthed Aracana. In a nut shell you give up your familiar in exchange to cast all your summon monster spells as standard actions instead of full round actions. Coupled with the Master Specialist's swift casting ability, you could cast 2 summon monsters every round if desired. That is a lot of monsters for an opponent to dismiss.

Another good prestige class to consider is Argent Savant. Probably the best mid level force blaster spell is a conjuration in Orb of Force. Couple that with the Argent Savant's ability to add damage and you will be doing 10d6+10 damage with the spell at your level. As for feats, look at Metamagic School Focus. Three times a day it lets you lower the metamagic cost for a spell by one. So couple empower spell with Orb of Force and Argent Savant class feature and Metamagic Focus and you get a 5th level spell that doe 15d6+15 points of damage, doesn't allow a save or SR, and only requires a range touch attack to a range of 100ft + 10 ft per level. When you can cast 9th level spells use the same features with Twin spell to get a spell that does 30d6+30 points of damage. Memorize two and use that with the master specialist swift casting feature and you can get off 60d6+60 points of force damage in a single round without a save or SR. In addition, since you don't have evocation as a prohibited school, you will get most of the other good force based spells to benefit from the Argent Savant class abilities.

As for summons, try to summon celestial creatures with gore or awsome charge. Then have them charge and use their smite evil ability as soon as they appear. That way before they can be dismissed they can put a hurting on your opponents. For feats, look at Imbued Summoning, and of course Augment Summoning. Use buffs in combat on your critters as well as your party members. Haste will affect one person per caster level. You should have no problem hasting your friends and your summons.

Beyond that, talk to your DM about better spell choices for your Conjurer. Ask him to put the occasional treasure in for you that is a spellbook and stuff. There is a location in Tides of Dread that is perfect for that, but in the interest of not spoiling it, I won't bring it up here. I hope these suggestions help.