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Debuffing saves can be quite powerfull depending on your party setup:
Rouge (Scout/Thug) 4/Cavalier (Order of the Staff)
1st Level: Medium Armor Prof
On a charge you deal damage and:
* Brutal Beating (sicken no save for 2 rounds -> -2 to saves)
So any witch/wizard etc. should have an easy time to finish the debuffed target.
Class Abilitys for charging:
If you combine this and add some intimidat skills feats you get something like this:
Belt of Thunderous Charging 10000 gc
Charge Damage: 3d6 + 1.5 x STR + 2d6 rhino + 3d6 sneak + power attck
I have a Half-Orc battle shaman and its realy good. Half-Orc fav class bonus lets you add cleric spells to your class list.
So its possible to add divine favor to your spell list and Half-orcs can take the alterntiv trait bonus Sacred tatoo. If you combine this with the Fate's Favored trait you will have +2 to all saves and your divine favor grant X+l uck bonus.
Half-Orcs have great axe proficiency so this is nice weapon to use.
If your not so keen for FoB. Master of Many Styles can get the Snake Fang feat by level 2. The problem with rogues/ninjas and other secondary frontliners is that the do not have the AC and HP to stay in the heat of battle for long...
Dex based with Weapon Finesse, Slashing Grace, Combat Reflexes and Snake Fang. Can stay in battle for much longer. Using ki points for the dodge bonus... 4th level monk is engouh.
Focusing on defense with Offensive Defense rogue talent can give you a high AC bonus. Damage will come for fanking sneak attack bonus and from snake fang.
Feral Combat Training (Combat)Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
So the this allows you to use not use the natural attacks with style feats, monk unarmed strike damage with the natural attack and many this more .... it's not only for flurry of blows...brawling armor alters unarmed strikes so with this feat it alters the natural attack too...
Warpriest Sacred Weapon reads:
I am quite certain it allways was a standard action. I personly build a heavy crowsbow using gnome. So i could reload and fire every round.
The Primal Companion Hunter (Hunter Archtype) gains an evolution pool like the one a summoner gets for his eidolon. A Primal Companion Hunter can apply the evolution to himself if he has no animal companion.
So this can be realy good with a race that already has some natural attacks.
For example level 6th (9 Evolution Points):
This evolutions can be activated as swift action and can be used for a number of minutes per day equal the hunter level.
The selected evolotions completly free the neck slot you do not need the amulet of mighty fists but it sill does not hurt because you get you natural armor bonus from the evolution.
I personly like the range investigator...
For melee trip buils can work wonders. I like Sickening Offensive as 7th level talent for both melee and ranged builds. Its a free debuff on EVERY attack against your studied target...
There are already classes that do extactly this...
1. Primal Companion Hunter that does not have an animal companion can apply the evolutions to itself.
Both classes are quite powerfull. Makeing a new class with no spells and more or allways active evolutions and full bab will be most likly impossible to balance...
But i think you underrated the Blood Arcanist. For some builds this can have a huge impact.
For example a caster specilised in enchantment (compulsion). The fix +2 to DC is realy powerfull. At 5th level this caster could take Potent Magic.
With a 18 Int and Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus and a Headband of Vast Intelligence +2. This resulsts in huge DCs...
DC for compulsion spells
Clear anyone playing such a thing must hate his GM but it is still nice in theory ;)
I am currently working on a dex focused hunter but some of the stuff is universal useable by any melee hunter.
1. Feat: Spirit’s Gift
2. Teamwork feats: Outflank, Precise Strike, Pack Flanking, (Tandem Trip)
I like the mix of Oracle(Life) and Spirit Guide Archetype(Life Spirit). That will give you a huge amount of channel charges per day. Some alterativ way to use the channel charges can be realy good. This will result in more like a caster/support build. Something like this feat chain:
Giving your friend the archer bane for a few round by spending two of your channels can be realy good. On early level giving the fighters mace disrupt looks cool, too. With an Phylactery of Positive Channeling the duration increses by 2.
Actualy i would like such a build not only for the mechanics. I think it is possible to build a cool story around that. A guy that saw his father the cleric die on the battlefield. The clerics last words "I will always be with you my son...". That is where the oracle abilties start to manifest. The PC talks to his fathers spirit in the middle of a figth and the spirit gives him his channel power.
hmmm a fighter that becomes a wizard in one day by killing engouh goblins can be done by RAW. It's just realy bad roleplaying. A player could study his fathers spellbook for year and then suddenly could have a breakthrough ... that at least is ok roleplaying. If the dumb fighter becomes a wizard after 1 day ... i as GM would call down the 100d6 anvil (no save) and that would be bad GMing...
The best rgp that supports any concept does not prevent bad roleplaying...
yeah, that is exactly the problem. It gives a bonus to a check that to my knowlege has no DC stated anywhere in the rules.
With the current rules most GMs will still make you pay at least 1/3 the listed poison price to preserve the poison... the reason should be clear if you get nearly unlimited poison doses this gets broken as hell....
Rules that are missing:
Without this info it is unuseable and if this has no feat tax and can be used/stored for an infinate times/time it would be to powerfull ;)
I like the approach i have seen in much older rpgs where most monsters had an entry about which parts can be salvaged from the creature and what skill it takes to do so.... (hide for armor, poison, tooth as magic components etc.)
1. A PC that uses mainly poisons without blowing huge amounts of gold. Like milking its own pets (familar, animal companion, trained pets, etc.)
2. An alchemist who uses alchemy to temporary enhance items (Weapon oils, Armor polish stuff like that...)
I have concepts for both but there is so much stuff that has to be house ruled or that fits not fluffwise that i am not willing to bring this stuff to most tables.
For example for build 1. i would go with Vishkanya Alchemist (Beastmorph/Vivisectionist) but i would like to have someother way to uses the poison form pets. The the poison user can be done but the sub concept "milking" pets cannot...(with existing rules)
If a player wants to do somethings like this with me as a GM. I would try to do a feat or feat chain that would allow this stuff... like:
Benefit: You can milk poison from trained poisonous creatures with an handel animal check DC equals poison DC plus creatures HD. If you fail the check no useable poison can be extracted, if you fail the check by 5 or more the creature bites you dealing attack damage plus poison. The procedure takes 1 hour of work and the creature looses is poison attack for 24h. You can get a number of poison doses equal to the creaures constitution modifier. The poison decays after 24h.
I allway like the brute Rogue. Focusing on a two handed weapon and str as a rouge gives some combat options a normal fighter does not have. If you deal sneak attack/power attack damage you can intimidate/debuff enemys for free... + so many skills.
Something like this:
STR: 17 +2 race + 1 @ 4th level
Belt of Thunderous Charging 10000 gc
This is so easy to build Flagbearer (Feat) and Banner of the Ancient King (Item) are will most likly be the core of such build.
A bard can have so many different fluffs but buffing (self or party) will always be a part of the concept.
If i get the chance i would like to play a archer bard (Arcane Duelist) with a Designating (lesser/ greater) bow. That seams to be fun but is only good past 8th level.
Meet Mr. Drillsargent:
STR: 13 (+1 @ 4th Level)
1st Human: Toughness
Banner of the Ancient Kings 18000 gp
This build lifes from giving as high as possible bonus on bardic performance as possible. +5 Attack and damage with bardic performance.
Combat look like this:
I personly would take the champion archtype (other compain trait). Just because it has some paladin offensive goodies i don't want to miss:
1. Mythic Smite (Ability) 5+ more smits per day
I am not sure but i think you can get some of this goodies from the Hierophant via the ability that lets you take one ability from an other path but that is only one.
If you do not mind losing trapfinding the best combo in my opinon is Scout + Thug archtype.
1. Power Attack + Furious Focus
That all adds up to some nice damage and free debuffs on each charge/sneak attack: I. You can sicken on a hit (-1d6 sneak, no save), II. You can demoralize as a free action giving you a chance to render you opponent shaken or frightened.
nate lange wrote:
(all of which use your dex for attack rolls and damage, and all of which gain 1 point of precision damage
I am a bit confused.1. How do you get the dex to damage with your unarmed strikes?
2. The dualist gives precision damage only for light or one-handed piercing weapons. The scimitar is not ligth nor a piercing weapon. So i think this will not work? Or did i miss something?
I'm looking at a sword & board warrior who doesn't focus on shield-bashing, and ...
Please define "sword & board warrior" ...
Has this to be a figther or can it be any full BAB class. Is it ok to multiclass or can we use a 3/4 BAB class as long as the build is melee focused and uses a weapon and a shield ??
Just of the top of my head so please do not flame at me if somthing is a bit off:
Tengus + Alternate Racial Claw Attack
Gives you 3 primery natural attacks. You can use this with weapons but all primery natural attacks become secundary. Tengu Claws are treated as having the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for the purpose of qualifying for other feats -> Crane Style + Crane Wing
I call this poor mans TWF because you this will give you a hell lot of attacks with min. number of feats. The attacks are realy low damage but with smite you will deal rock solid damage.
Attacks @ 10th Level with Dex 20, Str 14: +15/+10 Scimitar, +13 Bite and +13 Claw
That is 4 attacks at 10th level and 5 attacks at 11th. With smite this will do serious damage.
Duergar are humanoids with the dwarf subtype
So by raw you count as dwarf for feat traits reqirments. It is not strictly clear (or at least i cant find it) if you need to be the race or have the subtype dwarf to take levels in this archtype. But as i read the rules it is engouh to have the subtype ...
Racial Heritage is like you gain the suptype and it allows you to take archetypes that have the chosen race as a requirement. So i am quite sure the dwarf subtype a duergar already has qualifies to take Forgemaster archetype.
Why does you friend say you have to come up with the hell of a background ?? Even if he disagrees on my reading ... this archtype seams to fit well. Or has your friend a problem with you playing an evil race ?!
I have heard of the brute rogue, though I haven't tried it for myself. Unfortunately, I do like the idea of keeping trapfinding on my rogue as it seems like the only redeeming factor of being a rogue (and even then, some classes do it better).
Is it only the trap finding? Some people altough dislike the idear of sneak attack with a big axe ;) If this is not the case the the build could work without the Thug/intimidate part...
What about multiclassing has the build you are looking for to be pure rogue?
That looks like an awesome build, Breiti. Mind if I make one minor suggestion though? if you don't, read the spoiler.** spoiler omitted **Finessing a light shield with TWF might be nice, may I suggest the [url=http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Klar[/url]? It counts as a light wooden or steel shield with armor spikes according to the ultimate equipment, and does a d6 damage.
The armor would work but i picture more like savage rowdy so the rhino hides fits this thema. The defense is not realy the problem adding sneak attack dice as dodge bonus once the charge hits is nice and the penalties on your target give this build a virtual +4 to AC against single enemies.
The poster asked about a rogue build so i changed this on the fly. My plan for this build would be Rouge (Scout/Thug) 4/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) X. This way if chaging is not an option i can drink in invis extract. The mutagen and extracts could push my AC to a level that it does not hurt to much ;)
(as it is the only optimal build for them; although I'd be happy if someone could prove me wrong).
This depends on if its still a rogue if you loose trap finding ;)If it is then i call this the Brute Rogue
STR: 17 (+1 @ 4th Level)
On a charge this build deals good damage the target is sickened and maybe shaken or with some luck frightened and flee. If it does rise and repeate ;)
I am not sure this can fit into the build, but maybe someone finds a way to get this into the build above ...
1 level Rogue (Thug)
If you hit with your combo and power attack and you manage to demoralize your victim. It will try to fee Standing up (AoO) and move away (2nd AoO).
I would even try 8 level (Scout/Thug)
Magic Archer: Is a nice spell that is on the same poser level as Magc Missle and that feels differnt engouh to be a spell on it's own i kind of like it.
Kinetic Barrier: Is good power wise, but TheRedArmy is right why 4 and not 5?
Thunderous Gale Form, Minor: This is a bit greedy. This spell gives the effect of hast, fly and gives you weapons/unarmed strikes a shock enchantment. Why should any high level PC memorize fly/hast when he can have this spell? (I kind of hate spells that make lower level spells make absolutly bad once you have the better version, the exception are some spell chains like the summon monster I- IX linie)
To setup a similar effect to fly, hast and shocking a PC without this spell has to cast hast + quickend fly + some costum item. Thats a level 7 and a level 3 spell slot + X gp for the item. I think this is a bit overdone. The 1 hp damage and fatigue (a condition that is easily removed at this level) can't rebalance this spell onto normal power level.
I agree with you VM mercenario, and you Odraude. I had a talk with the PC in question earlier today and he is very stubbornly clinging to the idea that it doesn't matter what the party feels so long as he is playing true to his character design.
That's true sticking to character design is good. But he has to aceept that this is true for everone. My pladin would need a reason to take this guy with him into a dungeon. So if there is no good reason he would leave him behind, beacause taking this guy with him would just endanger everyone.
I do not understand why the cowerd does think he has more right to stick to his character design than the other players ...
If he wanted to play a cowardly PC he should have taked to you BEFORE the compain starts. So you could have given him a special propose for the compain. Maybe he is blessed by the gods and only he can open the last door in the dungeon ahead.
This why the other players would have a reason to take him to the dungeon and protect him at all cost, so everyone could stick true to character design.
But doing the the cowardly PC and so force everyone else not to stick to character design is bad play style...
Poison kind sucks.
Have you done the math?
At Level 10th this build can poison his weapon as a swift action 4 times per day. Each use sticks to the weapon for 4 hits.
The save DC is 10 + CON + 1/2 HD + Ability Focus = 22!!
So please show me a melee build that can do a save on suck on a normal attack at a fairly high DC, 25 times per day (asuming 20 con, 20 int with items)
And there is more
- full sneak attack like a rogue
I can understand if you tell me its not well optimized or if you don't like it but i am quite sure this build does not suck ;)
Class: Alchemist 10 (Beastmorph/Vivisectionist)/4 Rogue (Scout/Thug)/6 (Beastmorph/Vivisectionist)
STR: 18 (+1 @ 8th, 12th, 16th 20th Level)
Natural-Born Leader (+1 Will)
01st Level: Sleep Venom (Vishkanya)
02nd Level: Infusion
Can poison nearly anything, so much alchemist goodies, swift invisibliy, pounce, sneak attack on pounce,can sicken an ememy on sneak attack, can inimidate quite well on power attack ...
1. Oracle max. base number of spells per day is 6 clercs is 4+1.
So now you will say my cleric just uses cure light wound wand and can do the same. But high level parties just burn this little healing sticks so fast it's much more cost effectiv this way.
Life Oracle are the only healers that can make in combat healing realy matter. For example the complet party is at low health the oracle could.
1. Cast a cure spell quickened (Combat Healer)
So much healing in a single turn can turn a battle completly around.