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I allway like the brute Rogue. Focusing on a two handed weapon and str as a rouge gives some combat options a normal fighter does not have. If you deal sneak attack/power attack damage you can intimidate/debuff enemys for free... + so many skills.
Something like this:
STR: 17 +2 race + 1 @ 4th level
Belt of Thunderous Charging 10000 gc
This is so easy to build Flagbearer (Feat) and Banner of the Ancient King (Item) are will most likly be the core of such build.
A bard can have so many different fluffs but buffing (self or party) will always be a part of the concept.
If i get the chance i would like to play a archer bard (Arcane Duelist) with a Designating (lesser/ greater) bow. That seams to be fun but is only good past 8th level.
Meet Mr. Drillsargent:
STR: 13 (+1 @ 4th Level)
1st Human: Toughness
Banner of the Ancient Kings 18000 gp
This build lifes from giving as high as possible bonus on bardic performance as possible. +5 Attack and damage with bardic performance.
Combat look like this:
I personly would take the champion archtype (other compain trait). Just because it has some paladin offensive goodies i don't want to miss:
1. Mythic Smite (Ability) 5+ more smits per day
I am not sure but i think you can get some of this goodies from the Hierophant via the ability that lets you take one ability from an other path but that is only one.
If you do not mind losing trapfinding the best combo in my opinon is Scout + Thug archtype.
1. Power Attack + Furious Focus
That all adds up to some nice damage and free debuffs on each charge/sneak attack: I. You can sicken on a hit (-1d6 sneak, no save), II. You can demoralize as a free action giving you a chance to render you opponent shaken or frightened.
nate lange wrote:
(all of which use your dex for attack rolls and damage, and all of which gain 1 point of precision damage
I am a bit confused.1. How do you get the dex to damage with your unarmed strikes?
2. The dualist gives precision damage only for light or one-handed piercing weapons. The scimitar is not ligth nor a piercing weapon. So i think this will not work? Or did i miss something?
I'm looking at a sword & board warrior who doesn't focus on shield-bashing, and ...
Please define "sword & board warrior" ...
Has this to be a figther or can it be any full BAB class. Is it ok to multiclass or can we use a 3/4 BAB class as long as the build is melee focused and uses a weapon and a shield ??
Just of the top of my head so please do not flame at me if somthing is a bit off:
Tengus + Alternate Racial Claw Attack
Gives you 3 primery natural attacks. You can use this with weapons but all primery natural attacks become secundary. Tengu Claws are treated as having the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for the purpose of qualifying for other feats -> Crane Style + Crane Wing
I call this poor mans TWF because you this will give you a hell lot of attacks with min. number of feats. The attacks are realy low damage but with smite you will deal rock solid damage.
Attacks @ 10th Level with Dex 20, Str 14: +15/+10 Scimitar, +13 Bite and +13 Claw
That is 4 attacks at 10th level and 5 attacks at 11th. With smite this will do serious damage.
Duergar are humanoids with the dwarf subtype
So by raw you count as dwarf for feat traits reqirments. It is not strictly clear (or at least i cant find it) if you need to be the race or have the subtype dwarf to take levels in this archtype. But as i read the rules it is engouh to have the subtype ...
Racial Heritage is like you gain the suptype and it allows you to take archetypes that have the chosen race as a requirement. So i am quite sure the dwarf subtype a duergar already has qualifies to take Forgemaster archetype.
Why does you friend say you have to come up with the hell of a background ?? Even if he disagrees on my reading ... this archtype seams to fit well. Or has your friend a problem with you playing an evil race ?!
I have heard of the brute rogue, though I haven't tried it for myself. Unfortunately, I do like the idea of keeping trapfinding on my rogue as it seems like the only redeeming factor of being a rogue (and even then, some classes do it better).
Is it only the trap finding? Some people altough dislike the idear of sneak attack with a big axe ;) If this is not the case the the build could work without the Thug/intimidate part...
What about multiclassing has the build you are looking for to be pure rogue?
That looks like an awesome build, Breiti. Mind if I make one minor suggestion though? if you don't, read the spoiler.** spoiler omitted **Finessing a light shield with TWF might be nice, may I suggest the [url=http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Klar[/url]? It counts as a light wooden or steel shield with armor spikes according to the ultimate equipment, and does a d6 damage.
The armor would work but i picture more like savage rowdy so the rhino hides fits this thema. The defense is not realy the problem adding sneak attack dice as dodge bonus once the charge hits is nice and the penalties on your target give this build a virtual +4 to AC against single enemies.
The poster asked about a rogue build so i changed this on the fly. My plan for this build would be Rouge (Scout/Thug) 4/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) X. This way if chaging is not an option i can drink in invis extract. The mutagen and extracts could push my AC to a level that it does not hurt to much ;)
(as it is the only optimal build for them; although I'd be happy if someone could prove me wrong).
This depends on if its still a rogue if you loose trap finding ;)If it is then i call this the Brute Rogue
STR: 17 (+1 @ 4th Level)
On a charge this build deals good damage the target is sickened and maybe shaken or with some luck frightened and flee. If it does rise and repeate ;)
I am not sure this can fit into the build, but maybe someone finds a way to get this into the build above ...
1 level Rogue (Thug)
If you hit with your combo and power attack and you manage to demoralize your victim. It will try to fee Standing up (AoO) and move away (2nd AoO).
I would even try 8 level (Scout/Thug)
Magic Archer: Is a nice spell that is on the same poser level as Magc Missle and that feels differnt engouh to be a spell on it's own i kind of like it.
Kinetic Barrier: Is good power wise, but TheRedArmy is right why 4 and not 5?
Thunderous Gale Form, Minor: This is a bit greedy. This spell gives the effect of hast, fly and gives you weapons/unarmed strikes a shock enchantment. Why should any high level PC memorize fly/hast when he can have this spell? (I kind of hate spells that make lower level spells make absolutly bad once you have the better version, the exception are some spell chains like the summon monster I- IX linie)
To setup a similar effect to fly, hast and shocking a PC without this spell has to cast hast + quickend fly + some costum item. Thats a level 7 and a level 3 spell slot + X gp for the item. I think this is a bit overdone. The 1 hp damage and fatigue (a condition that is easily removed at this level) can't rebalance this spell onto normal power level.
I agree with you VM mercenario, and you Odraude. I had a talk with the PC in question earlier today and he is very stubbornly clinging to the idea that it doesn't matter what the party feels so long as he is playing true to his character design.
That's true sticking to character design is good. But he has to aceept that this is true for everone. My pladin would need a reason to take this guy with him into a dungeon. So if there is no good reason he would leave him behind, beacause taking this guy with him would just endanger everyone.
I do not understand why the cowerd does think he has more right to stick to his character design than the other players ...
If he wanted to play a cowardly PC he should have taked to you BEFORE the compain starts. So you could have given him a special propose for the compain. Maybe he is blessed by the gods and only he can open the last door in the dungeon ahead.
This why the other players would have a reason to take him to the dungeon and protect him at all cost, so everyone could stick true to character design.
But doing the the cowardly PC and so force everyone else not to stick to character design is bad play style...
Poison kind sucks.
Have you done the math?
At Level 10th this build can poison his weapon as a swift action 4 times per day. Each use sticks to the weapon for 4 hits.
The save DC is 10 + CON + 1/2 HD + Ability Focus = 22!!
So please show me a melee build that can do a save on suck on a normal attack at a fairly high DC, 25 times per day (asuming 20 con, 20 int with items)
And there is more
- full sneak attack like a rogue
I can understand if you tell me its not well optimized or if you don't like it but i am quite sure this build does not suck ;)
Class: Alchemist 10 (Beastmorph/Vivisectionist)/4 Rogue (Scout/Thug)/6 (Beastmorph/Vivisectionist)
STR: 18 (+1 @ 8th, 12th, 16th 20th Level)
Natural-Born Leader (+1 Will)
01st Level: Sleep Venom (Vishkanya)
02nd Level: Infusion
Can poison nearly anything, so much alchemist goodies, swift invisibliy, pounce, sneak attack on pounce,can sicken an ememy on sneak attack, can inimidate quite well on power attack ...
1. Oracle max. base number of spells per day is 6 clercs is 4+1.
So now you will say my cleric just uses cure light wound wand and can do the same. But high level parties just burn this little healing sticks so fast it's much more cost effectiv this way.
Life Oracle are the only healers that can make in combat healing realy matter. For example the complet party is at low health the oracle could.
1. Cast a cure spell quickened (Combat Healer)
So much healing in a single turn can turn a battle completly around.
+1 CL for "earth" spells sounds good but d20pfsrd advanced spell search only displays this results:
Root (Lvl 0)
In fact there is not a single spell with [earth] descriptor that would benefit from + 1 Cl (except some surations). If you can convince you GM that the + 1 CL applies additionaly to acid spells or spells on the earth domain list .. this would be good. But RAW it is a realy nice fluff feat that is realy bad technical....
For a ranged one hit build i surgest Alchemist with the Explosive Missile (Discovery) ...
With the bombs you will not get into the damage olymp but its solid damage and you can have nice additional debuffs on every shot like trip (force bomb) or confusion (no save, for CL/rounds) or cloudkill...
Dealing solid damage and confuse your target for 8 rounds makes this a nice one shot damage build.
Pathfinder SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#TOC-Magic-Item-Creation) wrote:
The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night.
So let him buy a Ring of Sustenance and he will have some hours each night while the other sleep to craft...
Taason the Black wrote:
•Ability Score Racial Traits: Necropolitans are strong and seductive, having cheated death and learned the true chill of the grave. They gain +2 Strength +2 Charisma, and –2 Dexterity. Necropolitans use the Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution(such as when calculating a breath weapon’s DC).
That alone makes the complet race unbalalanced as hell. You get +2 to two abilty scores and -2 to an other thats fair and inline with most other races. BUT next you reduce the number of ability scores from 6 to 5. That makes this race overpowered.
Example 20 pt buy fighter:
There is no other race that can have a 20 STR and still a +2 Fort, +1 will and +2 HP per HD. At the other goodies you added to this race that is a bit to much ....
If you combine Thug and Scout archtypes you get a charging wonder. If you charge with Cornugon Smash (feat) at level 7 the result can be realy amazing:
- Offensive Defense (+3 AC)
The build below is just out of my head and i added alchemist Vivisectionist just to boost some more strength (mutagen).
STR: 17 (+1 @ 4th Level)
1st Level: Medium Armor Prof
Belt of Thunderous Charging 10000 gc
I think this is as close as a rogue can get to tank atleast against a single target...
Remember that slumber is much more easly undone then Misfortune. A wizard might order his familar to slap him (standard action) as sone as he falls asleep. So in big fights misfortune is the better option. Undead are immune so that could be a problem. Misfortune is good for big fights and for enemies that already restisted you slumber hex or for enemies that fall asleep and some one woke them up ;)
Thats the reason that i would take last
This depends much on you party meshup. If there is another caster that uses a huge number of save or die/save or suck spells the Evil-Eye is much more important. Evil-Eye allways works because by RAW you can Evil-Eye and cackle in the same turn to extend the 1 round duration of Evil-Eye. So this works although the target saved against the evil-eye.
The order i would take the hexes is Evil-Eye, Cackle then Misfortune.
Nice stuff. I agree on most everything except the door example. Lets say the BBEG hiddes in a chamber behind a big door and the party fails to open it one way or another ... then they have to get creativ. Use the table in the other room as a ram, use acid fasks or just use the weapon to harm the door ... i will never use a door that can't be bashed to pices or overcome in some creativ way .. but if the party fails to open the door with skills the BBEG will have some time to buff while the party uses a longer creativ way to open the door ;)
Skills should you have should allways give you an advantage. Skills that the party has not should give an disadvantage. But missing skills (in this case lockpicking) should never result in the party autofails a mission.
I think that depends on the compain and the max level i plan the character for at level 5th to 8th the skeletal champions is a realy nice for a summoned creature, but if the compain runs till 10th+ level the feat is just dead weight. At level 10th+ you will most likly never use the feat again...
The spells for this slots still keep a huge value. Just prepare situational spells or long time buffs and this spells can still be useful for out of combat healing.
Some spells i like to prepare at this level:
- Grace (Level 2, swift action you do not provoke AOOs for 1 round)
This is just a small list of things i like. But i think this spells saved my life more than a few times (Expecialy Grace and Protection from Evil)
p.s. A metamaic rod of quicken lesser me be good for this slots ;)
The 'best' depends on the role you would like to fill. In this thread i see a lot of caster or melee builds that are solid. But support classes can be quite powerfull as gestalt. Sometimes this are the more solid builds in big party setups:
This build can without support heal even 4+ partys without wasting much resources. Life Link to transfer the huge amount of healing form lay on hands (Fav Class Bonus + Fey Foundling = LoH dice + 2x char level) to his allies. The Fey Foundling feat works with abilties from both classes (Channel + LoH).
I like bard buffer with Flagbearer + Banner of the Ancient Kings but without the gestalt part the character can only fill the pure buffer role. The Alchemist part will give the character extra arms to hold the flag and free his normal arms to be a melee/archer/whatever secondary damage dealer itself. At 7th level this bard can activate his Bardic Performance as a move action to give every party member +5 to Hit/+5 Damage and cast hast in the first round of combat. In the secound round he might grap his bow (the extra arms hold the flag) and do a smite full attack hasted and with an extra +5/+5.
Race: Tiefling(Demon-Spawn) +2 Str +2 Char -2 Int, Shatter
01st Level: Fey Foundling
STR: 17 (+1 @ 4th)
Just a question does the GM stick to any rules or does he just make up any monster you face to kill you and your mates?
I do not have a problem with hard GM styles but there have to be some rules. Like normal CR + X and no custom monsters...
Remember the Aasimar Oracle favored class bonus, that gives you +1/2 level for calculating the effects of one of your revelations. If you do that with your channeling, you can get more d6's even faster.
That is not the case:
You get a 1/2 on the effect the revelation gives you. But the ravalation gives you the ability to channel and it gives the ability at 1st level and at level 20th. So this does not work. The revalation does the same on every level.
Edit: After rereading i think this can be RAW in each way. Is there a office faq or someting about this ...
On d20pfsrd it is not a human only feat.Is that a mistake?
Fey Foundling is good for life oracle because you heal you allies via Life Link Mystery. So it's like every one gets Fey Foundling for free.
Grap yourself a Mace, heavy and a shield and some good med armor thats it.