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King Ezelgar

Bobson's page

Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 2014 Star Voter. Pathfinder Society Member. 2,846 posts (3,773 including aliases). No reviews. 6 lists. 1 wishlist. 2 Pathfinder Society characters. 15 aliases.


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Movin wrote:

@bobson, you are likely going to need to chat with Remnant on the extent of your characters magic immunity. As it is currently written any spell, beneficial or not is negated by you immunity if it can be stopped by SR.

Thing is magic immunity isn't spell resistance so as written there is no way for you turn it off.

Ooh, good point. I'd thought about it, but not really thought about it. The first part I knew, but the second I'd completely missed.

Could be an interesting challenge, though.

Sanriel wrote:
Level 7 with 2la freebies. You count your monster as a class equal to its Cr. So effectively 9th. I think. Still get gold of a L7 character though.

Hmm... I think I may have underbuilt myself. Wisps are CR 6 with 9 HD, but I replaced two HD with two class levels.

Sanriel wrote:

I would imagine that in the employ of this mysterious benefactor that we would have a high chance of encountering all sorts of unique and interesting creatures. Then we kill/eat* them and take their stuff.

Hopefully without getting a militarized nations worth of weapons trained on us.
*depending on the party members involved, make into brain slave/vampire thrall is also applicable.

Xizor doesn't eat anyone... He just feeds off of all the fear the rest of you generate from your victims. You're handy to have around.

As far as finishing him goes, I'm wrapping him up now.

Have fun!

Remnant wrote:

At this time please post your character ideas so I can start getting my intro post on the game thread (to be made later) all ready. Looks like right now we have (essentially)


With a Mindflayer, Drow Noble Weretiger Ninja/Monk also about to be recruited. Anyone else close to posting an idea that I missed?

You missed me, with Xizor. I haven't made an alias for him yet. I also haven't bought any items yet either - I'll probably get a chance to do that tomorrow night.

Another thing I have yet to do is really go into his personality or backstory much. Very much a flat statblock at the moment, but that's something else I hope to take care of tomorrow.

divineshadow wrote:

Okay I can wait.

As for closing. When Vel submits his we will be closed. The game has already started and you will be delivered to branderscar on the second day.

Sounds good.

If I'm chosen late enough on Friday night, I won't be at a computer to see it until some point in the afternoon or evening on Saturday. Just a heads up that I'm not MIA. If I'm not chosen, then I still won't know, but no one will be expecting me to post. ;)

I am amused that everyone chose a different class to build a healer off of. (At least within submitted characters, anyway).

  • Nash the druid.
  • Arthan the witch.
  • Nemenia the bard.
  • Manny the oracle.

    There's another witch and another oracle who haven't posted builds.

  • Zain Ashvale wrote:
    Movin wrote:

    @Zain, so why don't you just use the Unfettered eidolon creature as a base? I mean if you plan on rocking the zerg idea it would leave you open for future evolution.
    Something akin to the Unfettered Eidolon would be what I would like, I was hoping to purchase RP abilities mostly because there are a few things that cannot be replicated without it. I could likely make the overwhelming majority of what I want to do work with EP though so perhaps EP progesssion as a Unfettered Eidolon could work(Maybe I need to spend feats in order to get RP? that seems pretty sensible)

    I'd suggest either an "Extra Race Point" feat, equivalent to (and restricted like) the Extra Evolution Point feat, or just a flat EP-to-RP conversion ratio.

    But what race options would you want that aren't available to eidolons? It might just be easier to package them up, and say "This costs X EP" than trying to price each one individually.

    Well, here's the rough draft of Xizor - the Will-o-wisp synthesist who always wanted to have a body. I'm picturing the eidolon as a glowing humanoid shape that forms around the glowing sphere which is Xizor - effectively an extension of a will-o-wisp's natural glow and ability to create patterns (they don't always look like a skull).

    Stat block:
    Lesser Will-o'-Wisp Summoner (Synthesist) 2
    CE Medium aberration (air)
    Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft., scent; Perception +15
    AC 20, touch 16, flat-footed 19 (+1 Dex, +4 natural, +5 deflection)
    hp 81 (9d8+9)
    Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +11
    Defensive Abilities natural invisibility; Immune immunity to magic
    Speed 10 ft., fly 50 ft. (perfect)
    Melee 2 claws +11 (1d6+4)
    Special Attacks shock 2d8
    Spell-Like Abilities (CL 7th; concentration +13)
    . . 9/day—summon monster
    Summoner (Synthesist) Spells Known (CL 2nd; concentration +8):
    . . 1st (4/day)—mage armor, magic fang, unseen servant
    . . 0 (at will)—detect magic, light, mage hand, message, read magic
    Str 1 (19), Dex 28 (13), Con 10 (13), Int 20, Wis 17, Cha 22
    Base Atk +7; CMB +11; CMD 27 (can't be tripped)
    Feats Cornugon Smash, Flyby Attack, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse
    Skills Acrobatics +5 (-3 jump), Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Fly +21, Intimidate +18, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (nature) +9, Knowledge (planes) +9, Perception +15, Spellcraft +17, Stealth +13 (+33 while moving or +40 while still vs. foes who can't see invisible), Use Magic Device +18
    Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Common, Giant, Goblin, Undercommon
    SQ eidolon link, feed on fear, fused eidolon, fused link, share spells with eidolon
    Other Gear 25,000 gp
    Fused Eidolon - 0/22
    Summon Monster I (9/day) (Sp) - 0/9
    Special Abilities
    Cornugon Smash When you damage an opponent with a Power Attack, you may make an immediate Intimidate check as a free action to attempt to demoralize your opponent.
    Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
    Eidolon Link (Ex) Mental link allows communication over any distance, but share magic item slots.
    Feed on Fear (Su) Any time a will-o'-wisp is within 15 feet of a dying creature or creature subject to a fear effect, it gains fast healing 5.
    Flight (50 feet, Perfect) You can fly!
    Flyby Attack You can take a standard action during your move action while flying.
    Fused Eidolon A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being. The synthesist wears the eidolon like translucent, living armor. The eidolon mimics all of the synthesist's movements, and the synthesist perceives through the eidolo
    Fused Link (Su) Starting at 1st level, the synthesist forms a close bond with his eidolon. Whenever the temporary hit points from his eidolon would be reduced to 0, the summoner can, as a free action, sacrifice any number of his own hit points. Each hit point sacrif
    Immunity to Magic (Ex) Will-o'-wisps are immune to all spells and spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.
    Natural Invisibility (Ex) +20/+40 stealth and +2 attack vs foes who can't see invisibility.
    Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
    Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
    Share Spells with Eidolon (Ex) Your spells ignore type restrictions for Eidolon and it can recieve your personal spells.
    Shock 2d8 The Will-o'-Wisp deals 2d8 electricity damage with a melee touch attack.
    Summon Monster I (9/day) (Sp) Standard action summon lasts minutes, but only 1 active at a time and can't use with eidolon.

    A questions for Remnant:
    Since the w-o-w's normal attack is a melee touch (for electric damage), do my claw attacks deliver that as well? Or is it an either/or?

    Remnant wrote:
    Bobson wrote:
    Remnant wrote:
    Bobson wrote:
    Remnant - what level would a Will-o-wisp summoner synthesist start at? The idea is basically that his eidolon a humanoid shell around the wisp.
    I like that idea as I am initially envisioning it so make it easy, drop a HD or 2 fm the Will o Wisp and make those your Summoner Levels. Weaker as a Will o Wisp but it should balance out long term wise.

    Ok, I'm making a Lesser Will-o-Wisp by dropping two HD, which includes losing one feat (Improved Initiative) and one stat point from Dex. Then I'll add two Synthesist levels and call it a day.

    Edit: What do monster races do for stats? Treat their racial stats as modifiers to the standard 11/11/11/10/10/10 array and spend 25 points? Or go with them as written?

    Reviewing the original thread (thanks for the hard lifting) "if you play a monster with racial hit dice, you still get to use its stats as mods on top of a 25-pt buy, but in that case you don't get the two bonus levels of templates (it's a balance hack)"

    So in your case use the monster stats as written since you are maxing out at the 9 total Levels/HD/RHD

    Cool. I won't lower my strength and end up with a negative score after my racial -9, though. :) "Help, I can't move!"

    Remnant wrote:
    Bobson wrote:
    Remnant - what level would a Will-o-wisp summoner synthesist start at? The idea is basically that his eidolon a humanoid shell around the wisp.
    I like that idea as I am initially envisioning it so make it easy, drop a HD or 2 fm the Will o Wisp and make those your Summoner Levels. Weaker as a Will o Wisp but it should balance out long term wise.

    Ok, I'm making a Lesser Will-o-Wisp by dropping two HD, which includes losing one feat (Improved Initiative) and one stat point from Dex. Then I'll add two Synthesist levels and call it a day.

    Edit: What do monster races do for stats? Treat their racial stats as modifiers to the standard 11/11/11/10/10/10 array and spend 25 points? Or go with them as written?

    Just for reference HERE is the recruitment post that this is based on (as opposed to the idea post in the top of this thread), including the Lesser Lich option.

    And Remnant beats me to it by 2 minutes.

    Remnant - what level would a Will-o-wisp summoner synthesist start at? The idea is basically that his eidolon a humanoid shell around the wisp.

    Well, here's a very interesting halfling witch who can heal. I love the results you can get from the background generator tables.

    Born the child of Mitran clergy, he fell in with a bad crowd as a kid. He was apprenticed to a witch well known for her healing magic, but then his crowd convinced him to steal some of the offerings from his parent's church just to have the cash, and it was a short road from there to stealing and melting down some of the implements for their metal value. He was caught and turned in by his older brother Jeryl and sentenced to burning to death for Desecration. When his family hears that he's escaped, his brother is sure to set out to bring this discrace on the family back to justice.

    Arthan Deepstrider
    Male Halfling Witch (Hedge Witch) 1
    NE Small humanoid (halfling)
    Init +1; Senses Perception +3

    AC 12, touch 12, flat-footed 11 (+1 Dex, +1 size)
    hp 8 (1d6+2)
    Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +3; +1 trait vs. divine spells, +2 vs. fear
    Speed 30 ft.
    Special Attacks halfling jinx, hexes (evil eye, healing)
    Witch (Hedge Witch) Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +5):
    . . 1st—cure light wounds, forced quiet (DC 15)
    . . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, resistance
    Str 10, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 14
    Base Atk +0; CMB -1; CMD 10
    Feats Extra Hex, Nemesis
    Traits child of the streets, desecration, hatred of mitra
    Skills Heal +5, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (history) +8, Knowledge (nature) +8, Knowledge (planes) +8, Linguistics +10, Perception +3, Sense Motive +3, Sleight of Hand +6, Spellcraft +8; Racial Modifiers +2 Linguistics
    Languages Abyssal, Common, Daemonic, Dwarven, Elven, Goblin, Halfling, Infernal
    SQ avarice, patron spells (healing)
    Other Gear 150 gp
    Special Abilities
    Avarice Must gain at least 10% more treasure than allies or cannot Aid Another for 1 week
    Desecration +1 trait bonus on all saving throws against divine spells.
    Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
    Evil Eye -2 (7 round(s, DC 14), DC 14) (Su) Foe in 30 ft takes penalty to your choice of AC, attacks, saves, ability or skill checks (Will part).
    Familiar Bonus: +2 to Reflex saves You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
    Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
    Halfling Jinx (30 ft, At will, DC 12) (Su) Foe in 30 ft takes -1 to saves for 24 hr or until jinx again (Will neg).
    Hatred of Mitra +1 damage to celestials and followers of Mitra.
    Healing (1d8+1) (Su) Use cure light wounds once per day/person.
    Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.

    He's got the Halfling Jinx, and will be taking feats for enhancing that and adding it to witch hexes. His familiar is a weasel, and he's got the Avarice drawback. "Ok, pay me for the healing or you don't get any more." Healing is limited to one CLW per person per day, with 0-2 extra castings (starting with 1), but that's about the same as most other first level healers could do. (Other than a Healing domain cleric, anyway)

    One note: Most days, I can post at least once a day, sometimes twice. However, there are days I can't post in some or all of my campaigns. On average, I think it works out, but I am not the most prolific poster.

    The hazard of not choosing to exactly duplicate a spell is that you leave the door open for the GM to twist the wish. "Teleport us all out of here" implies nothing about where you'll end up. You could, theoretically, each end up standing on your birthplace, which could be hundreds of miles from everyone else. Or, it might end up exactly doing what you want. The key is that you won't know ahead of time.

    Choosing a specific spell to duplicate is a way to "safely" channel the magic of a wish, since it then follows all the rules of that spell (except for increased spell level and DC).

    I'd certainly be interested in another recruitment like this.

    Sacred Summons only works with "creatures whose alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura". So a silvanshee (with the good subtype) would qualify, but a Pseudodragon (which doesn't) would not.

    The more specific question is whether the Celestial template adds alignment subtypes to the creatures it affects. Since there's nothing in the description of the template that says it does, it doesn't. So they aren't affected by Sacred Summons.

    Well, I'm glad I could contribute that idea! I'll definitely be following these game threads to see how this develops. Good luck, all!

    I really wish I could think of something to bring my character in. I can just see how a story involving a god of integrity could try to break him...

    markofbane wrote:
    No problem here with that. I expect to still be interested in it at that point. :) Small favor to ask, though. Sometimes threads that don't have any activity on them for a couple of weeks drop off of focused lists. If you reach a point where you are ready for more input or ready to start a game and I'm not responding, could I ask you to shoot over a PM to prompt me to get back on the thread?


    When I'm ready to post a real recruitment thread, I'll PM everyone who expressed interest in this thread. But I can certainly send you a PM when there's a new question, too.

    I love campaign ideas like this, although I rarely think of a character with enough backstory to be worth applying. However, Tenro's comment about bringing back a 3.5 character idea inspired me.

    My very first D&D character ever was a LN Kensai/dervish dedicated to truth and his own code of honor. Here, he'd be Arnon, god of Truth and Integrity - something like a paladin dedicated more to the law than to the nebulous concept of "right".

    Translated directly for this, he would probably be a Bard (Dervish)/Magus (Kensai)/Oracle of Battle [Mythic Guardian], but there's nothing particularly truth-y about that combination. I'm considering substituting in Inquisitor (Exarch) for the Bard (Dervish), since the latter was a fun part of his character, but not core to the RP aspect of the concept, although I'm still not sure that's a great fit.


    However, as I've been thinking about it (while writing this post), I don't think I could write a backstory which I would pick over some of the others here, and I occasionally have a hard time keeping up on the games that I'm in currently, so I'm going to reluctantly pass after all.

    So consider this an expression of interest, which I'd be willing to develop if asked, but not a full application.


    @Rednal - I'm not sure if you've considered it, but if you're up for it you could pick more than one forgotten god and run them through separate worlds in parallel threads, rather than adapting the story. Of course, that's twice the potential work.

    Ravingdork wrote:
    Developers are less likely to answer FAQed post when you lump all the questions into a single post. You should spread them out over multiple posts and have them collect FAQ clicks independently.

    This. However, it's worth noting that you can do each one as a separate post in the same thread, and that spreads it out enough to make it work for them.

    I clicked the FAQ button anyway

    Peanuts wrote:
    Any news on playtesting Bobson?

    I got about halfway through the 0.7.1 revision, which was taking into account all the feedback so far, and then got sidetracked by preparing for a RL game I'm about to start running. (Rasputin Must Die! as a standalone module.)

    This is still going to happen, but I probably won't make any progress on it until later this month. At this rate, we might not actually start until some time in the fall. :/

    Kazaan wrote:

    The fundamental misunderstanding that several (including JJ) are making here is conflating "source", "value", and "type".

    "Source" is which rules element allows you to add the bonus. In the case of adding Dex to your ranged attack rolls, the "Source" is the default combat rules. The Power Attack feat is the "Source" of its bonus. Bonuses from the same "Source" don't stack which is why you can't take double the Power Attack penalty in order to get double its bonus.

    "Value" is the amount assigned to the bonus. In some cases, it's a fixed value (ie. +1 bonus). Power Attack's "Value" is a function of BAB. In the case of the standard adding of Dex to your ranged attack rolls, your Dex modifier is the "Value". Zen Archer allows you to change the Value from your Dex modifier to your Wis modifier. Same goes for Weapon Finesse and the like. The ability score isn't the "source" of the bonus, it's the value of the bonus. There are no rules as to stacking Value so if two bonuses from different sources add a bonus of the same Value (either flat or based on a particular ability score), nothing prevents them from both being used.

    "Type" is the designator of the bonus; sacred, dodge, shield, enhancement, natural armor, deflection, luck, etc. Bonuses from different sources, but the same type, won't stack save for specific exceptions (ie. dodge type).

    Thus, the Dex bonus added to ranged attacks is an Untyped (type) bonus equal to your Dex modifier (value) which comes from default combat rules (source). The bonus coming from Estaril is an Untyped (type) bonus equal to your Wis modifier (value) which comes from the pertinent boon (source). Zen Archer has an ability that changes the Type of your bonus from Dex to Wis, but that has nothing to do with the Source nor the Type; thus the two values stack.

    Excellent synopsis. Exactly how I see it.

    Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
    If you're rich you can get a bow made for a Str bonus of +20 (ignoring the craft DC, of course, since you buy it already made) and make it Adaptive anyway, just in case the magic is supressed somehow.

    Then you'll take the -2 penalty for using a bow too strong for you. Better to set the default Str bonus too weak - you'll reduce your damage, but not your attack roll.

    Brandon Hodge wrote:
    I will try my damnest to dig up those notes and crack open my old laptop to check out my relevant Firefox bookmarks folder for your and TritonOne's information requests--I seem to recall that I actually had the location of Akuvskaya pinned on a google map. I literally spent days going over satellite images of ruined villages and cathedrals looking for just the right spot--I imagined a place where some globe-trotting Paizo fan could actually stand there, say "well, this is where my character killed Rasputin...for the second time" and spy a rusty sword hilt from a far-distant world sticking out of the snow. =-) I seem to recall the location was more Western/mid Siberia than far Eastern--I didn't want to yetis' trek from the Urals to be to unbelievably long. And while we didn't want to fall too far down the rabbit hole of Russian politics, the prisoners were indeed White Army soldiers, and I believe that artist captured the uniforms Rob intended.

    It may or may not help, but here is a post you made on the subject last year:

    Requoted (in part) for convenience wrote:

    Akuvskaya Monastery is based on this ruined church in Penza Oblast, Russia. I fell in love with it in my research, particularly how the fledgling onion-domed belltowers flanked the larger central dome, which gave perfect resting places for snipers. And it had a transept that, while not necessarily typical for Orthodox churches, gave me the room I needed for an extra couple of encounters. I also took inspiration from the abandoned churches of Ryazan Oblast, which proved to be great specimens to base a composite on, and I stole a little from this ruin, with a great cruciform architecture (though it lacked the onion-domes I wanted), this old beauty which is very similar in style to the Penza church, and this currently-domeless cruciform-style monastery in Voronezh Oblast.

    Orthos wrote:
    Use this.

    That's a cool hook. Who is the requester supposed to be? I'm not familiar with most of the NPCs yet.

    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    Brandon Hodge wrote:
    I think the window scene in room A3 originally had a broken down early automobile in the yard as a clue, but I don't think that made it to the published text, so that's good!

    It's in A1 now:

    A1 description:
    The single window displays a curious sight: a bone fence fallen into disrepair and overgrown with thorny vines, and the carcass of a rusted metal wagon (actually an old automobile).

    Personally, I'd be doing everything in my power for their first dawning realizations to come from the mine explosions and crossfire of machine guns when they're ambushed in their first steps outside the hut--talk about impact if you can pull it off!!!

    I'm actually just about to start running this book (and just this one) for my group. I sold it to them as "It's called Rasputin must die. It means exactly what the title says." They're expecting Russia, sortof, maybe. They are not expecting what's waiting for them right outside the hut... and I am really looking forward to when they trigger that.

    The sound of maniacal cackling fills the room...

    Dotting for definite interest. When I first saw it, I thought "Sunday? That's short", but given the interest, it makes sense. I had two thoughts in mind, although I'm not positive I'll get the time to write either one up.

    One is a will-o-wisp synthesist, based on a villain I threw against my players in my Kingmaker game. He makes up for the lack of a useful body by merging with his humanoid eidolon. Rather similar in concept to the ghost summoner, though.

    And... the other I forgot while I was writing this post. Oops.

    Just chiming in to say that I really love the idea of this, but I don't think I have enough of a grasp on any superhero's personality to feel comfortable submitting an app.

    I just want to throw encouraging and supportive words at the GM. Yay for creative campaigns!

    CommandoDude wrote:
    Bobson wrote:
    Peanuts wrote:
    Shouldn't we be getting some significant benefits if we're paying an extra 20 or 40 BP in order to get advanced or monstrous characters? I think that entitles you to a bit more than extra options to pick from. Or am I misunderstanding something?

    No, you're directly addressing the tension here. On the one hand, spending BP on a race should give you bonuses for what you spend. On the other hand, spending initial BP for an ongoing benefit that lasts the entire game could be very unbalancing. I'm not striving for perfect balance, just "in the same ballpark".

    What I'm thinking is something like "You get three racial benefits", and the stronger races get stronger options to choose from, but are still limited to those three. Thus they don't completely overpower weaker races (because they still only get a few specific benefits), but you do still get something for your points (more & better options).

    Why exactly balance it through "spend X BP to play X race"? I mean, just throw that out the window and balance them in terms of abilities.

    For instance, a nation of Orcs would obviously have strong armies, but with the penalty to mental stats then they have trouble making their kingdom checks. The challenge for them isn't military, it's just keeping their kingdom together. Meanwhile you might have a nation of halflings with weaker military, but are much better at making kingdom checks.

    Interesting concept though.

    That's the goal behind the "You get three bonuses" scenario. Because otherwise you get the kingdom of kobolds that has a hard time with everything, and the kingdom of aasimar which is just good at everything. Not that I want every race to be perfectly equal! But I want them in the same ballpark, or to have some other penalty to balance just flat out being better.

    I might make it more generic, though. "Choose three types of things to get +2 to all rolls of, and one to get -2 to", or something like that. So race becomes more flavor than directly influencing the rolls. You'd just choose a race that fit with the bonuses you wanted (or vice versa).

    I'm actually in the midst of doing a similar rethink with the Champion/Proxy class system, based on my beta reader's feedback. Rather than spell out all 20 classes and have (weighted based on kingdom) chances of each, just abstract it down to "Arcane caster (Int)", "Arcane caster (Cha)", "Melee fighter (Str)" or something like that.

    Gridlock god of Rage wrote:

    YES! I thought this recruitment had died and am happy I checked it.

    I see several people talking about the rules so how would I get them myself?

    Just what's been posted here, except for the two people I sent my v0.7 draft to. There's a lot of snippets posted throughout the thread, some of which are still in the draft, some which got modified by discussions here.

    For what it's worth:

    Version v0.8 will have the rest of the mass combat rules.
    Version v0.9 will have all the minor gaps filled in, and will hopefully get a bit of playtesting. I'll probably post some variant of this here for overall comments from people.
    Version v1.0 will incorporate any suggestions from this thread, and will be the version I use to post the actual recruitment thread.

    Peanuts wrote:
    Sounds interesting, you're putting a lot of work into this, looking forward to it!

    I've definitely put a lot more work into it than expected. Much, much, much more than expected. Quote from the end of March:

    A clueless Bobson wrote:

    As far as progressing this goes, I'm hoping to have the house rules file assembled by the end of the weekend (incorporating Ultimate Campaign, most optional rules from it, the UR/UB additions, and my own tweaks and extras), at which point I'll start official recruitment. No promises, but that's my goal. (It's possible it'll just be the kingdom rules, not yet the mass combat ones - that may need to wait for the following weekend.)

    That said, it's been kindof fun assembling it all, integrating all the new stuff from the addon books, applying my own preferred tweaks, and making it work together without PCs at the heart of the system.

    Very quick update as I'm about to pass out....

    I've shared the rules with my alpha-readers!

    I've created a system of randomly generated and leveling Champions to be your army commanders, diplomats, and the people you make into Proxies, so Proxies aren't luck of the dice any more!

    The current page count is 32!

    I'm up way too late!

    Just checking in to say I've finally finished the section on recruiting and equipping armies. It's probably the section that's most changed from what's in the default army rules. A few highlights:

  • 100 soldiers is now a Large army, but still the "default" size for multipliers.
  • You have regular troops of three qualities (Regulars, Militia, and Conscripts), and a small number of Elite troops who have class levels. I still haven't figured out commanders yet, though.
  • Equipment does not increase monthly Consumption, but there are tradeoffs to various choices. Ranged weapons increase Consumption in every week they're used.
  • Multiple kinds of siege engines.
  • Mounts, Chariots, and Howdahs... If you ever wanted to build a Tyrannosaurus-riding army, now you can! (Supply of dinosaurs not included. See store for details. All rights reserved. The purchaser assumes all liability for all damages caused by rampaging dinosaurs. Dinosaurs may be larger than pictured. Use at your own risk. Do not taunt Happy Fun Tyrannosaurs. Member FDRUN. An equal-opportunity eater. )
  • Healing potions which don't consume your attack and emergency rations which let you "save up" Consumption.

    Next up are the new combat rules, including round-by-round tactical initiative, many more commander boons, and finally figuring out whether Proxies get class levels. Once all that is done, I'll start sharing it with my first readers as I finish up the rest.

    Without the OGL stuff, the document is up to 24 pages and ~7500 words. For comparison, a full page of rules from one of Paizo's books runs 800-1000 words per page.

  • slin2678 wrote:
    Is it too late to show interest or are there too many players already?

    Definitely not too late! We're still in the "hammering out rules" phase. Hopefully the actual recruitment will start in early May, but I've been saying it's "two weeks away" for over a month now...

    Yeah, there is a BP-to-GP conversion, but it has accompanying Unrest generation. I've used that formula's numbers for commissioning magic items to boost your Proxies (increasing the BP cost appropriately and generating Unrest), but since mercenaries are an ongoing expense, having an ongoing Unrest generation engine seems problematic.

    I could just increase their cost without the unrest, but at some point it becomes "why bother instead of recruiting my own?". I'll play with the numbers a bit and see how it goes.

    2 people marked this as a favorite.
    Steve Geddes wrote:
    I wish he'd leave his email address instead of his phone number. I take a certain pleasure in signing up spammers to each other's junk email lists.

    Philadelphia recently started targeting "Junk signs" (those "Sell homes fast!" type of thing stuck randomly on telephone poles) by adding them to the city's robodialer. Apparently they would get a call every 15 minutes until the signs were taken down. It's supposedly been very effective.

    Clearly Paizo needs a robodialer to harass spammers.

    Just a FYI: I've actually decided to cut an optional system that added excessive complexity.

    Ultimate Battle has a system for recruiting armies day-by-day, a handful of d6s worth at a time. It's a cool system that prevents armies from appearing from nowhere, and it allows you to have a pool of recruits not yet assigned to army units, but it's a huge amount of additional rolling that just doesn't seem worth it to me. You'd need to make up to 30 Loyalty checks (since we work at month-long scales), and then recruit something like 40-60 d6's worth of recruits (depending on buildings and check results).

    If people are interested, I'll throw it in. I'm not totally opposed to it - just inclined against it.


    I'm also trying to decide how to pay mercenaries, since they typically need gold in addition to BP, but the kingdom's treasury is measured in BP, not gp. Thoughts?

    New spammer

    Edit: Beaten by less than a minute by Signore.

    Peanuts wrote:
    Shouldn't we be getting some significant benefits if we're paying an extra 20 or 40 BP in order to get advanced or monstrous characters? I think that entitles you to a bit more than extra options to pick from. Or am I misunderstanding something?

    No, you're directly addressing the tension here. On the one hand, spending BP on a race should give you bonuses for what you spend. On the other hand, spending initial BP for an ongoing benefit that lasts the entire game could be very unbalancing. I'm not striving for perfect balance, just "in the same ballpark".

    What I'm thinking is something like "You get three racial benefits", and the stronger races get stronger options to choose from, but are still limited to those three. Thus they don't completely overpower weaker races (because they still only get a few specific benefits), but you do still get something for your points (more & better options).

    That being said, this is still very much up in the air, and introneurotic's point is a good one. If it gets too hard to make it work, I'll just cut races back to being an entirely flavor-based option. They were introduced accidentally by the Proxy rules, in order to affect leadership stats, and while I agree it makes sense to have each race be different, it may be too much to deal with for now.


    In unrelated news, I've finished writing up all the edicts. That just leaves two major and two minor sections left: Recruiting armies and Mass Combat are the major; finalizing the initial setup rules and the new building-specific information are the minor.

    Progress is being made!

    Well, I'm back. More or less.

    My intent is to balance the races on the meta-level, so even having an amazing race doesn't get you more actual bonuses than a mediocre one, just a better selection to choose the ones you actually will benefit from from.

    That being said, I have no idea yet how I'm going to do that. I will ask for at least a little background and description of a custom race, just to give some flavor to what they build. But it is a mechanics-focused game, so it won't be more than a few sentences.

    Personally, I'd say that because it is a SLA, not a spell, it wouldn't get the benefits of being a spell, regardless. They are two different things, after all.

    Definitely a good point - I don't want to over-complicate things, since there's already a large number of rules to keep track of. I'll leave the race-specific stuff out for the time being, and graft it in later once everything else is done, based on the races people want to play.

    Ultimate Rulership imposes a 50% price increase on duplicate buildings within the same district (except for a few things that are supposed to duplicate like city walls and housing). That may or may not be enough to force diversity - I might make it a stacking 50% increase.

    The Master of Nod wrote:
    The ratfolk have +2 craft(alchemy) so they would get a x bp discount on the alchemy building.

    I can see that. It'd be a pretty minor benefit, since you're not going to build alchemy-type buildings very often, but if we make it stronger because of that...

    Alternatively, rather than making the building cheaper, it could make it stronger. An extra +1 Economy from it, for instance (off the top of my head - I have no idea what the stats are).

    The Master of Nod wrote:
    Some of the skills usually have no place in the rules, but are in some of the buildings so if a race has a bonus to one of these would it get a discount?

    I'm not sure I follow. Can you give an example?

    I'm definitely going to have to rethink the racial bonus plan. You're probably right that it should just be sundry bonuses rather than big steps like that.

    What if racial (non-movement) abilities could be translated to a +2 on a check of some kind, and you got to choose up to two for free, and pay 5 points each for each extra? Movement abilities would give some other bonus, but still count towards your two-for-free-pay-for-more.

    Maybe single-race kingdoms would get +3s instead of +2, but dual-race kingdoms would get the +2s for both races (so four free, but you're paying to have the two races in the first place)?

    I'd definitely wait until the army rules are closer to being done before setting these numbers in stone, because there should be benefits on that end, too. But how's the idea?


    The Master of Nod wrote:
    Ok so if we are using all the rules I'm thinking of having a overlord or oligarchy ruler.

    Definitely in there!


    I'm also just letting everyone know that RL's kicking me around this week. It's my last week at my old job, so I'm working late trying to get everything done. Hopefully, I'll still have some time to work on this, but it's less likely than I expected and this is turning into a larger project than expected. I had originally had hopes of starting this on this last Sunday, but looking at my calendar, the last weekend of April is looking more likely.

    Which is not to say you should all go run away and vanish! I'm going to keep on working on assembling the rule document, and I'll keep posting excerpts and questions. The more feedback I get the better.

    However, if you do find yourself losing interest in the interim, I'll also PM anyone who expressed interest in this thread once the recruitment thread is up (whenever that ends up being), just to let you know that everything's done and ready to go.

    froggalpha wrote:
    The Master of Nod wrote:
    Question will race affect the modifiers?

    Will race affect the...

    A) Travel speed?
    B) Exploration check?
    C) Stealth check?

    As there are stat mods and racial traits that would apply to any of the above.

    Very good question... and as I've gone on, I haven't had any good answers for the racial questions. Honestly, they only started mattering at all when I wrote up the Proxy rules and went "Wait, we need stats...". It's clear people want it to matter, and I like the idea that race does have an impact, but I worry about whether some races might be too strong when abstracted down to a few benefits. I know different civilizations in Civ have different traits and tweaked units...

    Thinking about this question, I think I may have two different problems which are each other's solution. What if starting BP could be spent to apply a racial ability to the kingdom rules? Something like "If your race can fly, you can spend 15 starting points to have every expedition automatically be Exceptional quality for the cost of an Average one." I'd probably limit it to three traits - two kingdom and one army. This way, everyone could pick their race's "best" features and get adjustments, without me having to account for each race individually.

    As always - thoughts? Suggestions?


    The Master of Nod wrote:

    Exploration and stealth.

    Also, what optional rules from ultimate campaign are we using?

    All of them.


    Or at least, the default assumption is all of them, as adjusted to the concept by me and this thread.


    As for divine casters, I'm inclined to say that markofbane is right. Their powers still work, but they're really being granted by the Being, or all the Beings as a group, or some god-emulator they created for the sake of granting divine powers. Or this is just a custom demi-plane in the Golarian universe. Or all universes touch on it and all gods (from any system or RL setting) are available...

    And on that theme - here's the Exploration Edict excerpt, for the usual feedback and commentary.


    Exploration Edicts
    Exploration edicts are the easier of the two ways you can explore hexes, which is required before you can claim them. As such, they are very important to the growth of your kingdom. Note that you have no limit on the number of Exploration Edicts in effect at any given time, but you may only start them as one (or both) of your Special Edicts for the turn.

  • When commissioning an expedition, you must determine the length of time the expedition will travel for, the quality of the expedition members/equipment, and the route to be taken.
    • The route can be specific, as in “Travel from this hex to this one to this one, spending at least two days in each” (even if that’s off the edge of your current map), or it can be a set of rules such as “Follow this river, turn left if you find the sea, and don’t enter mountains.” So long as I can interpret it and it doesn’t contain any time-based directions, it’s fine. All routes must start in your capital.
    • The BP cost is based on the number of months and the quality you select. The final cost is computed ahead of time and must be paid up front. If you are unable to afford it, you have wasted your edict for the turn.

  • While exploring, the expedition uses the travel time and exploration time charts, based on their travel speed below. Caverns count as mountains, Jungles count as marshes.
    • Poor quality expeditions can’t explore water hexes, unless they leave your capital by boat, in which case they may not explore any hex that does not adjoin the water.
    • Basic quality expeditions can’t explore mountain or swamp hexes, due to the inability to take their supply wagon with them.
    • Within your kingdom, travel speed is boosted by any roads or highways you have built.

  • While exploring, explorers make one Exploration check per day spent in a hex, using their modifier from the table below.
    • The day spent traveling into the hex does not grant a check. However, it does immediately tell you any obvious features of the hex.
    • The DC of the check generally ranges from 15 to 30, based on what’s in the hex.
    • A success means you discover any hidden features of that hex (if any). A failure means you get no new information.

  • While exploring, explorers have a chance each day to have a hazardous or hostile encounter.
    • While within your borders, these chances are significantly lower.
    • Hazards generally mean the exploration party loses one day of travel, although some could be worse.
    • Hostile encounters generally mean a monster is in the area, which the expedition attempts to avoid with a Stealth check using their modifier from the table below against a DC based on the encounter.
    • -- If they succeed by 10 or more, they capture or kill the monster(s).
    • -- If they succeed, they lose a day as they avoid the monster.
    • -- If they fail, they are attacked. Make a Stability check based on the encounter. On a success, they lose two weeks to regrouping. On a failure, they are lost (Unrest +1, remaining investment is wasted)

    Quality | BP / month | Travel speed | Exploration check | Stealth check
    Poor | 1d2 | 20’ (carrying supplies) | +10 | +2
    Basic | 1d4 | 30’ (supply wagon) | +15 | +4
    Average | 2d4 | 30’ (pack mounts) | +20 | +8
    Good | 3d4 | 40’ (riding) | +25 | +12
    Exceptional | 4d4 | 40’ (overland flight) | +30 | +20

  • Other than the atrocious formatting of the table, any feedback?

    My plan is to apply 7 days worth of rules/rolls to each expedition each turn. Lost time just means they get a "Did nothing useful" type of result for that day.

    The other way of exploring that was hinted at is moving armies around. If you send an army out (even a small one), it'll move slower and probably cost you a lot more, but you won't have nearly the same amount of trouble with monsters.
    I'm tempted to make found monsters make settling the hex harder, but then you have the problem where exploring longer makes monsters more likely to appear...

    PhillyG wrote:
    Question, will there be NPC settlements, marauding bandits, and monsters?

    Possibly, probably only through events, and yes but only as you explore.

    I like the idea of having NPC settlements, but I don't know how I'd handle them. I wouldn't want to try running them on top of everything else, so they'd probably be static and/or just a DC to annex as a city. Much easier to just not include them and leave the interactions to between players.

    Monsters will be something you have to take into account when you're exploring hexes (as per Exploration Edicts, possibly tweaked slightly to provide numbers for the Stealth check), but the only way they'll attack you is if an event calls for it.

    Another question, what character classes can our proxies take?

    As of right now, they're too abstract to actually have classes - they're just attribute arrays that may potentially have stat-boosting items. However, once I get to the army rules, their class may matter enough that I go add something for it.

    In other words, they can be any class or class combination you want :)

    Chris O'Reilly wrote:
    I think he mentioned giving each player a different coordinate system but maybe im just making that up

    I think I did, and if I didn't, I should have. My plan is to take my master map, and slice it up for each player. Possibly with rotations before applying a coordinate system. I'd then need to translate visible moves (and other information) from one player's map to the other, but it means that no one else would know what you mean if you refer to A32, but they'll still know that it's adjacent to A31 and B32.

    Yep, that's pretty much it. The numbers might change, but I can't think of anything else you'd be able to spend pre-game points on. After all, you need them to start your kingdom...

    I think I do need to tweak the numbers, though. A standard kingdom under ordinary rules starts with 50. My target number for this is to start with around 60, to speed up the early game slightly. Thus there ought to be around 40 points worth of stuff for the average person to spend it on. Then you can spend less, to get extra starting BP, or spend more to get a better position. My numbers don't come anywhere near making that target into the sweet spot, though.

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