BobSlaughter's page

I'm sold.

Anyone thinking about GURPS 4e should look at "GURPS Lite", a free PDF that introduces the basics of GURPS. Link here: http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG31-0004

As folks have mentioned, Lovecraft's works are in the public domain. ... What we can (and DID) do with this particular volume, though, was get permission from the awesome folks at Chaosium to stat up a few creatures from the Call of Cthulhu game that are only obliquely mentioned in Lovecraft's writings. ... but STILL it's nice to let Chaosium know what you're doing and get their blessing on such ventures.

Thank you James and everyone else for clarifying what's going on.

Also, as much as I like the Golem, i wonder if we'll ever see PaiZuZu. ;)

So, how did Paizo get permissions for Real Genuine HPL(tm)? I remember back in the day when TSR crossed Chaosium in the first printing of Deities and Demigods with the Mythos and Elric pantheons, that got yanked in the second printing. At that time, Chaosium had exclusive license rights for RPG usage of those properties.

So, either we've passed the magic copyright-checkpoint since then, or Paizo asked Chaosium nicely.

Tiffany as the Harrower

This book is "What does this belonging to religion do for my character, even if I'm not a divine spellcaster?"

I think is a good idea, often overlooked in most RPGs -- why should a character who isn't a cleric/paladin 'have' a god. I thought Book of the Faithful -- Power of Prayer from Jon Brazer Enterprises was a good start, but I still feel there is much room here to explore.

So, in my CoT campaign, I have 2 paladins. One of Iomedae and the other of Torag.

So I need to differentiate between them, and thought the code would be a good way to do so. So any help from this group would be very welcome.

• One Unbreakable law -- a 'must' or 'must-not'
  
• Two Major laws -- a 'may' or 'may-not'
  
• Three Minor laws -- a 'should' or 'should-not'
  

The PDF has some good examples for codes, and also mechanics for how much breakage forces 'atonement'.

Also, I would lean towards making each code 'personal'; each player should write their own, based on the god's write-up and GM approval. Thusly, two paladins of Iomidae might have significantly different codes.

I know the gobbo on the left is screaming and clutching his eyes because of the flumph's burning fluids

Actually, I though he was trying to use the "If I can't see him, he can't see me!" hiding defense.

I would like to purchase a used copy of Burnt Offerings from someone here, since it is either scarce or expensive "out there". I don't mind dings and such, as long as it is intact and in overall decent shape.

Anyways, I remembered that I actually had the Aliens roleplaying game, which I was VERY excited about. It was based on another RPG, but I can't remember the name. All I remembered was that it was VERY complex, at least in the combat system.

It was a simplified version of the Phoenix Command combat game.

Yes, simplified.

Thanks for the replies, all. That is what I figured, but just wanted to be be sure.

As an old model rocketry fan, there was an old rule-of-thumb that was something like "For a rocket that reaches altitude X straight up, if fired on a 45deg angle, it will reach 1/2 X altitude but land 2X downrange." It's a basic rule called Tartaglia's Law.

Using this, then if you can throw something 100 feet horizontally, you can throw it 50 feet straight up, as a rough approximation.

I was looking at Home Play under the PFS rules as an option for my one-on-one campaign with my wife. Is there any way this could be done "legally" in case she ever wanted to bring the character to a PFS event?

(No, I cannot kidnaps friends to fill the table.)

Short question; which one is easier to start with, the modules or the AP's?

I'd think the modules, less to 'digest' for the GM.

Long question; i have read D0; Hollow's Last Hope and like the idea. But if the group enjoys these modules i would like to carry on with the story and thus far i only found two more modules continuing the story. Or can you just glue different modules to each other?

There are a number of modules set in or near Darkmoon Vale, which can form a mini-AP:

• D0 Hollow's Last Hope (freebie)
  
• D1 Crown of the Kobold King
  
• D1.5 Revenge of the Kobold King
  
• TC1 Into the Haunted Forest
  
• E1 Carnival of Tears
  
• D4 Hungry are the Dead
  
• LB1 Tower of the Last Baron
  
• LB2 Treasure of Chimera Cove
  

I also noticed that the older modules and Path's aren't really made for Pathfinder RPG... let alone 6-7 players...

Converting from DnD 3.x to Pathfinder is pretty simple, almost alwatys adding CMD, plus a few tweaks, and maybe adjusting NPCs to match the new progressions (not always required). Similarly, there are some notes in the GM section of the rules about altering numbers in encounters to re-size for a larger party. All-in-all, nothing to worry much about.

I too, am interested. Specifically, I am not looking for a comparison to DnD, but to <i>Burning Wheel</i>. It sounds like its more involved/detailed, and also more complicated, but I need to know if that 'cost' provides benefit over BW.

Just had a fantastic idea: Halflings (Slips) as pirates (of the Inner Sea/Caribbean). I mean, they are some of the most prolific sailors in the area, are highly adaptable and tend to blend in wherever they go.

Halfling pirates were a key feature of the Five Shires book for the BEMCI Known World. So it isn't a new idea. But that doesn't make it a bad idea either.

The only alternate D20 system I've seen with real innovation was Green Ronin's True 20. Only three classes (adept -- magic specialist, expert -- skill specialist, and warrior -- combat specialist), you get feats every level, and all the d20 class capabilities become feats. So you can create a ranger just the way you like (with or without magic, with whatever combat specialties and favored foes you want), and at the levels it makes sense for your character. And when you can still multiclass, quite a few unique possibilities become available.

Well... honestly, the thing that's REALLY going to tell us when to get this book out is when we sell out of the current printing of the campaign setting hardcover. Which is coming up faster than anyone here at Paizo thought (probably because of the success of the RPG)... which is why I'm starting to kick the notion around here on the boards to gauge reactions to the various options. Having our core campaign setting out of print for more than a couple of months is not good, and if we sell out well before Gen Con 2010 (which is looking VERY likely)... the book'll probably be out sooner than even I think.

I just bought the Campaign Setting in August 2009, and if you brought out a "Campaign Setting: Second Edition" for GenCon 2010, I'd still buy it. Yes, it needs to be throughly Pathfinder-ized (which includes regional and racial traits, and feat-conversion). And it needs some buffing of content and page count over and above that, to make it more enticing.

Eventually, I'm pretty sure we WILL do an Epic Level type book. (snip)

Another thing I'd like to see done is some sort of reversion to simplicity at 21st level. When you can cast 3 or 4 wishes a day and can knock down buildings with your sword, tracking how many 1st level spells you can cast is needless clutter. One of epic level's greatest hurdles is its complexity, and simply stacking more powers on top of an already overflowing bucket of powers is not going to make the game better.

I agree some sort of 'switch' needs to be thrown to move from Level20 to Epic1, and I suggest it may need to be similar to BEMCI's Immortal approach, though I am not suggesting god-level play. Yet.

What I am reminded of is the promise (Waaay back in the day) of what RuneQuest was intended to do, and the promises originally made:

• RuneQuest -- role-playing and advancement at the human level
  
• HeroQuest -- role-playing and advancement at the heroic/demigod level, as you re-enacted divine myths
  
• GodQuest -- role-playing as a divine being, as you now create NEW myths that retroactively re-write the world
  

There is a loose parallel with the Heroic / Epic / Paragon model in 4e as well, though that is a linear continuum.

Regarding level cap: under this model, if you consider PFRPG the "heroic" tier, then Epic can be Epic-1 through Epic-20, and then there enters the option for Paragon/Divine book for P-1 through P-20. Think of the sales!

One of the things I've been unclear on: is there any advantage of getting "Pathfinder Chronicles: Gazetteer" if you have "Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting"? I had the impression that the Gazetteer was superceded by the Campaign Setting, or at least there was so much overlap than you only needed one. Does the Gazetteer have anything the Setting does not?

I started getting all my stuff from paizo directly BECAUSE of the reluctance of my game store to carry it. ... We asked for 4, he ordered two. Its a start at least.

That's not "reluctance", that's "putting yourself out of business" ignorance. If your people are good about buying what they have him order, but he simply won't order it, that's sad.

I've been thinking of adding muskets to my game, and was wondering if anyone had advice on their mechanics. I was think that it would add a success to Attack at the farthest range (i don't have my book with me I forget how range is done) and then with bayonet it can be a spear.

Ideas? Suggestion?

If you haven't checked the Burning Wheel Mouse Guard forum, I suggest you have a peek.

Hey,

I'm pretty much a newbie gamer, but a long time fan of the mythology surrounding RPG's in general. When I've gamed in the past, I usually am the one in the group who draws while everyone else is playing ;) I was curious if there were any suggestions as to what would be good for a beginner gamer without a ton of time or a lot of RL friends to play with- or if I'd just be better off sticking with my art?

Thanks!
Char
charrartist.com

I'm assuming "what would be good" means, "what would be a way of getting into active gaming?"

There are a couple of key points:

1. It has more to with people than 'rules'. Some people and/or groups are good at introducing new players to the game (as rules) and the game (as setting/story). Others are really bad at it. So take your time and check several groups in your area out. Make sure you get along with them, and they with you, before committing time or money. Be sure that they know you need to take it slowly, and may need gentle guidance.
   
2. If you already have a group of gaming friends, ask them to teach you what's going on. If they stick a rulebook at you, ask politely, "I need someone to walk me through this."
   
3. As part of the above, there are games with simple rule sets. If your friends play multiple types of games, they may already have one of these in the pipeline, or be open to suggestions. Games like Spirit of the Century, The Shadow of Yesterday, or Burning Wheel might be easier to 'access' than Pathfinder.
   
4. If Pathfinder is your groups choice, then tackle it as one would eat an elephant using a plastic spork: slowly, and one bite at a time.
   
5. You can also approach Pathfinder from the perspective of learning Golarion, by starting with the Campaign Setting book. That explains the peoples, countries, and gods of the world. That may work better for you.
   

Let us know what other questions you have!

Hydro, what do you see as the net intended result of your proposed changes? Instead of looking at each piecemeal, was there an overall impact your were trying to achieve?

Agreed, thank you Paizo for Pathfinder:

• For honoring and extending the OGL nature of 3.5. You not only took the OGL parts and polished them, but added into the OGL text key features of advancement and character development, making a complete OGL game possible.
  
• You added enough to Pathfinder that honoring your work with purchases instead of just using the PRD was viable and enjoyable.
  
• You honored the spirit of the OGL by incorporating open playtesting and discussion of the choices and changes your were proposing. You listened to all the input, even if you didn't always agree with it.
  
• You expressed how you are roleplayers too, and how you wanted things for your own campaigns and characters.
  

There are things about the basic DnD paradigm I'm not happy with (HP, mainly), but those weren't yours to fix. Pathfinder just might me play and run DnD again.

The inspirational parts of BECMI, 1st edition, and 2nd edition certainly did play a part, but since none of those books contains open content it really couldn't go beyond that.

BECMI?

"BECMI" refers to the Frank Mentzer 1983 edition of Basic, Expert, Companion, Masters, and Immortals {that other game}.

I had to Google that, figured I would share.

Something like that may work (I definitely like the idea of gauging people's interest online. Really, though, there's a "magic number" of subscribers at which point pretty much any book we decide to do will automatically be at least a little profitable, and at the moment I want to focus on getting to that number rather than waiting for customers to prepay for specific titles.

GMT's P500 plan for wargames is pretty simple: If you want GMT to produce a certain game, you register for it and commit to buy it, with a credit card or other commitment to pay. Once 500 orders are in, the game 'makes' and gets put on the production schedule. Once the game is ready to ship is when you get charged. The P500 folks get the game at a discount over MSRP.

GMT found back-when that 500 was their magic number for profitability.

Jal Dorak wrote:

Maybe it's late and I'm tired, but while I agree those things were changed a great deal, and they are among many changes, what exactly about them was MMO-style?

The MMO style comes in to play when multiple changes were made per item, and that it was done so (overkill style) just to quiet a group of vocal people.

So, if I understand correctly:

• You do NOT mean they made changes to PLAY like a MMO.
  
• You mean they made changes like a MMO-programming team makes to keep certain groups of players happy; MMO's typically make a great number of small and willy-nilly changes with "unintended consequences".
  

Maybe I'm too much of a cook. You can't "take back" spices, so you never add too much at one time to keep from hurting your dish.

The publisher.

Every time I read a Paizo product, it feels as though I'm sitting at the table before the game starts, swapping notes with fellow gamers. Paizo isn't a corporation looking to diversify its product line by purchasing a RPG property to mine; it's a company of gamers who are trying to make a living creating products that they themselves enjoy. And that fact shows in all of the products Paizo makes, rulebooks and campaign settings alike.

Agreed. For me, it is this plus the open-ness of Paizo. Opening the rules development to the greater community and soliciting the largest amount of feedback for any game project is real win. Most games are developed internally or with limited input. Taking the OGL rule base and updating it, plus keeping it open, is a truly great feat.

Lael Treventhius wrote:

I used to play Palladium Fantasy RPG years ago, and that too was abbreviated as PFRPG. So is there any sort of legal consideration for paizo to consider when referring Pathfinder RPG as PFRPG?

There's no legal consideration to worry about, really, since I'm pretty sure that PFRPG isn't really trademarked, is it? If it's just an abbreviation that gamers adopted and then became commonplace it's not really a trademark...

It's Kevin Siembieda; I would explicitly ask, just to be certain. Check with Lisa about why. ;)

Wow nice!

Are the screen's panels set up horizontally (like 4e's screen) or vertically?

A second request on that question; I greatly prefer landscape-orientation instead of portrait for GM screens.

EDIT: yep, portrait. Not a deal breaker...

Also, is there anything else in the package besides the screen itself? A small adventure, additional charts and tables, or even a short essay set?

Is there anyone on these boards who is planning to go to DragonCon?

I'll be there, but mostly doing a board-game open demo (Squadron Strike from Ad Astra), playing other games (Steam, Race for the Galaxy) and seeing if I can get some Burning Wheel play in. While the PFS games sound good to me too, I don't think I'll have time.

There is some Games on Demand open-gaming in the RPG area Friday and Saturday, so you may be able to pick up some PFRPG play there, even if not PFS.

BobSlaughter wrote:

I purchased the rulebook and campaign setting book, and will pre-order the Bestiary soon.

I'll probably pick up the standalone module Crypt of the Everflame. I have the D0 and D1.5 OGL freebie modules, and will likely pick up D1 just to complete the 'set'. I don't mind doing the 3.5/OGL --> Pathfinder conversions.

Assuming those work well to kick off a campaign, and if I wanted one of the Adventure Paths to serve as the basis, which one would you recommend to start with?

May I make a different recommendation? Have you checked out the modules, GameMastery Module D0: Hollow's Last Hope; GameMastery Module D1: Crown of the Kobold King; and Pathfinder Module D1.5: Revenge of the Kobold King? The three make a nicely linked mini-AP, if you will.

Please note the section I bolded for you. ;) But yes, I do appreciate it; they DO look like a fun mini-AP.

I purchased the rulebook and campaign setting book, and will pre-order the Bestiary soon.

I'll probably pick up the standalone module Crypt of the Everflame. I have the D0 and D1.5 OGL freebie modules, and will likely pick up D1 just to complete the 'set'. I don't mind doing the 3.5/OGL --> Pathfinder conversions.

Assuming those work well to kick off a campaign, and if I wanted one of the Adventure Paths to serve as the basis, which one would you recommend to start with? I have the following points already:

• I'd like to do Rise of the Runelords, but the modules are getting scarce; I prefer dead-trees to PDFs at this point. Same concern with Crimson Throne.
  
• Council of Thieves doesn't grab me yet.
  

Likely play group is a mix of veterans who go back to AD&D 1e to newbies who haven't played much. The GM (me) has been involved since AD&D 1e (skipping 2e and 3.x), and has many other games. Help me decide which AP might be a good fit, with reasons, please.

Trouble is, the pattern (if there is one, and there probably isn't) is not so simple to figure out. Not all of the "New" books we've done have made money, and the three best-selling books in the line were all originally published before 1945.

Steppe has really good pre-orders, so we'll see how/if that changes things.

Thanks for all the feedback, folks. It is very much appreciated.

If you are familiar with the "P500" concept GMT uses, would something like that help? Or even just some polling of the subscribers and the readers of this forum? List a synopsis, and then a "rate your interest: 1 = I'd rather read toliet paper to 5 = I'll by 5 please", for example.

Really odd idea: just as the Mystaran Hollow World was used to preserve aspects of Mystara, the hollow of Golarion was used to preserve Mystara itself. The reason the Immortals of Mystara and the Gods of Golarion don't have established interactions is this (Mystara getting added to the Inner World) happened very recently. And neither group knows who or how this was done....

Now, I have no idea what happened to Mystara to have it 'saved/backed-up' via Golarion.

Not always up-to-the-minute, but I tend to add things as published to http://www.rpg-resource.org.uk/index.php?article=3092&visual=8

Actually, it's due an update, I've been doing other things recently on RPG Resource.

That's basically what I'm looking for. WW did a PDF for first-edition Exalted, but your site has the listings. I just might want to go back and get 'everyting' Pathfinder at some point. And I grabbing the 3.5-to-PRPG PDF tomorrow, so I can convert the older titles.

Thanks for all the help, everyone!

Does there already exist a checklist of everything Paizo has done so far under the "Pathfinder" label? That would be the stand-alone modules, all the 'Chronicles' items, the Adventure Paths, and now the RPG itself? This could be something Paizo has done, or a third party.

I'd like to throw another side question in here...

If we were to do an Epic Level book or a Psionics book... would you still be interested in said book if what we did with them kept the basic flavor of the ideas but did something entirely different with the crunch side of things?

From what I've seen, you'd have to. Almost everyone agrees that Epic and Psionics for 3.0/3.5 didn't work. What they don't agree on is how to fix it. For that, I trust you Paizo.

Set wrote:

Asgetrion wrote:

I think the +2 bonus to WIS is a bit too much... especially, as already noted, when it (along with that +2 bonus to STR) makes them the "ideal" race for clerics.

And when you've been turned away from the cities of man for your rough features and savage birth, and turned away from the clans of your tribal ancestors for your 'soft blood' and your 'weakness,' who for an outcast soul to turn to but the gods, to find acceptance, and a home, and a family, of sorts, in his fellow clergy and his congregation?

It's got RP hooks, which is always cool.

Yeah, but when the fifth cleric in the row in your group is a half-orc, will that RP hook have lost its flavour? From purely powergaming perspective the half-orc is the *only* choice you'd want for most cleric concepts.

The problem isn't Pathfinder ; the problem is powergaming. There isn't a set of rules I know of that can't be cheese-whizzed by some powergaming twink if they want to. The key is for the GM to just say "No, unless you can give me a good story/campaign reason, and one different from all those you've used before." And unless they comply, they can't play that character. Period.

The burden for this can't be on the rulebook, but on the GM and the other players in that campaign.

Is it just me, or are the rules on how to multi-class missing from the Beta? There are references to multi-classing, but I can't find anything on details around how to handle it. I know its fairly simple, from the d20 SRD, but just find it odd not to be in here. Maybe it's one of the things coming up when they do the Prestige Classes add-on later.

I would like to point out that the wisdom bonus does not seem particularly appropriate to the Half-Orc. I understand why the race was given this bonus - all races were given boni to one physical and one mental score so that they are not pidgeonholed into a single role (for the half-orc, this tended to be the barbarian...), but nevertheless, it just does not fit the half-orc flavor.

That said, if the half-orcs must have a bonus to a mental ability score, wisdom would be it, since it is the least inappropriate. Wisdom is probably the most compound ability score and I guess it can be interpreted as good senses and cunning instincts, but it still doesn't feel right.

Wisdom isn't always lights and high-thinking; it's the stat for street-smarts as well.

Especially, when in the words of a famous rogue:

"Know when to hold up,
Know when to fold up,
Know when to walk away,
Know when to run."

And I imagine many a half-orc having to have wisdom to simply survive among communities filled with distrust of them.

My thanks to both of you for your thoughts.

I quite agree that the 'build your own universe' aspect of Squadron Strike has me interested. I'm a little concerned that the only way I can use it appears to be by working with Excel though. I'd rather have a system I can sit down with and use a notepad and pencil to build ships.

For that sort of ease, I'd recommend Starmada: Admiralty Edition. It isn't a 3D game, at best 2D + altitude, but has a darned good ship-design system, to the point of which they did a WW1 wet navy module based on it. As well as one starship book and a campaign example so far. Said system needs only pencil, paper, and a basic calculator (unless you can do square roots in your head).

The selling point for Squadron Strike isn't ease-of-design, but ease-of-play in true 3D with true Newtonian physics once designed. Ken loves crunching numbers so much he has them as a breakfast cereal. I'm hoping Nyrath (Winchell Chung) comes up with some simple look-up tables or wonder-widgets to substitute/supplement for the Excel sheets; as an OpenOffice user I can't be sure Ken's Excel sheets will work for me or not.

Me, I'll end up with both. I'm bad that way.

Squadron Strike,

This is based on the game Attack Vector Tactical also by Ad Astra. Has anyone played that game? Any thoughts about it?

I have a love-hate relationship with AVT. On the one hand, Ken did an excellent job of reducing real Newtonian three-dimensional movement (NOT 2d-flat + altitude) to simple reference-chart look-up and easy-to-remember mechanics. Imagine you are a ship floating in space; you fire up your main drive engines and at the same time put your ship into a horizontal rotation (yaw). Only AVT will allow you to have your ship move along the spiral track a real ship would follow, and it does it WITHOUT causing your head to explode. And you can add a vertical rotation (pitch) and even spin around the axis (roll) to your movement and the game tracks appropriately. Which includes things like firing arcs remaining accurate for relative ship positions.

Once concern is that consensus says that a single player can only manage about 6 ships or so before reaching overload, so it is a game for small engagements. Saganami Island lets you handle more, but only because of some particulars of that setting.

On the other hand, I'm not that fond of some the ship-design decisions for AVT and the campaign-design decisions for the Ten Worlds, so that's why I'm opting-in for Squadron Strike: build my own universe.

It is hard to say. I took a look at it at my FLGS, but it seemed rather light for the price they were asking IMHO.

I'm finding MGT to be a lot like Mongoose Runequest: similar to the original, different in a few key areas, riddled with extensive errata and lack of playtesting, and a lot of fairly lightweight books so I feel like I'm being nickle-and-dimed. As much as I love Traveller, I think I'll have to give the Mongoose version a pass.

Of course, I've been waiting for the T5 set of documents from Marc Miller. Those are sadly way behind schedule (to the point that they no longer trying to predict when it will be out).

I think I'm going to get the Classic Traveller reprints for resources, and then use some other system, hopefully Spirit of the Far Future (link here, a FATE variant derived from Spirit of the Century.

Outside of price, it look like a solid piece of work and at some point, I'm likely going to pick it up. I just have way to many other purchases in mind first. (including the Comstar version of Traveller for the Hero System)

Be sure to check out the errata discussion on the Mongoose forums first before picking up MGT. I was about to go in for it, then when I saw all the issues and concerns, I backed off and I'm still reconsidering.

Um. I didn't even know it existed.. :(

Is there a download?

The RPG associated with Star Fleet Battles (or Federation Commander) is "Prime Directive", and the link is here

I hope this helps.

CourtFool wrote:

In my opinion, True20 is a solid system. My only real beef with it is racial level adjustments.

It's funny. When I looked at True20 the impression I came away with was - why wouldn't I just play 3.5?

Did I miss something? What do folks like about True20 that makes if their preferred system?

For me, the ability to 'tune' a character. If I were to play a character with the 'Warrior' role, by the feats I take I can replicate the more traditional Barbarian, Paladin, or Ranger. Or blend them. Want to play a paladin with NO magic spells. OK. Or a paladin with GREATER access to magic? That's OK too.

Have you looked at Chaosium's new Basic Roleplaying? I love RQ and was going to use Mongoose until I picked up BRP. It seems to to the best version of the system to date.

How is this latest version different from the pre-AH Runequest or the (very) Basic Role-Playing rules from the 1980's? I'm interested in hearing more.

If you want to try something very different and very narrative, try Luke Crane's Burning Wheel. Pretty original stuff.

Seconded. Burning Wheel is a great system, and also gets my vote for "Best Value in RPGs". The main rules come in two digest-sized books for $25, the Monster Burner is only another $20, and the long-awaited Magic Burner is finally on its way out this September, and should be $25. That is a truly complete system that is clean and simple for $70, about the list price of two of the 4e core books alone. And by complete, Monster Burner gives a number of creature write-up, that would be fun for the GM to play against the players, as well as very nice rules for creating monsters; and the Magic Burner has at least another half-dozen completely different magic systems over and above the main books' Sorcery, Faith, and Spell Songs.

On the BW wiki, there are sample chapters of some of the books in the "Downloads" area if you want to check into it before buying.

Another cool thing is the community around BW, as evidenced by their forums; it's a lot like Paizo's community around Pathfinder, if a little smaller and more 'intimate'.