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125 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.

So... I noticed my GM use a Variant Ability/Physical Feature table during a campaign, namely for Aasimar; and it got me thinking of a few ideas for using that table in other situations.

However, I can't find a table for Planetouched related to the Middle Planes, mainly since last I checked those plane touched aren't out yet. So that makes it harder to pull off some of my ideas.

Anyone have any ideas what such a table should contain? Whether Paizo will ever make such a table themselves? Heck anyone have their own ideas for what they'd use the tables for?

I for one am thinking it might be interesting to use in a high level campaign where the boundries between Planes are under stress, so everytime someone needs to be Rez'ed a little bit more of the outer planes clings to their body/soul.

I've been thinking about the whole Chaos Vs Law thing. And I'm beginning to wonder whether the way its presented is actually reasonable.

Most of the inventive minds I can think up are the type that would probably try novel approaches, deny sticking to set rules and question if the ones that are already there are right.

... That is hardly Lawful, is closer to Chaotic. And yet, despite that, its the Inevitable that wind up looking like the pinnacle of that era's science.

Wouldn't it make more sense for a a Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic good Scientist who spent their life trying to expand the boundaries of what they know and discard previous assumptions of rules of Society, Reality and Morality in the pursuit of science and truth want to have a spiritual body more symbolic of Science as well? Something that may be described as an "Adaptive Machine"?

And what of the more restrictive Lawful characters? If there are cultures or individuals who vehemently stick to rigid rules and ideologies, wouldn't at least some of them oppose Progress into "Forbidden" research into how the world works? Even it just because their tenants say so? Heck, might not some of them be uncomfortable with the idea of ending up looking like a machine like an inevitable does because to them such a far reaching modification to the natural form would be Heresy to them? If only because such self modification of the natural form is against their rigid system of Rules?

Basically... It feels weird to assume that Physical Law is somehow meant to be machine like, while chaos is organic.

Where's The Miku Hatsune Azata? Where's the Afterlife for the Amnish?
Where's the Computer Virus Demons and the section of Hell where their "Infernal Tortures" have to be carried out with one's bare hands and no infernal devices at all or else be considered Herasy to that section of Devils?

This may be modern sensibility taken a bit far here... But it certainly felt like SOME kind of dissonance to me, so I thought I'd Share.


If you guys have any similar quandaries where ignoring the MST3K Mantra leads to realizing the game's not perfect on a lot of issues, share them here if you want. I don't mind. There has to be other times Traditional Fantasy themes clash with something like this. And I'm not sure there's a dedicated thread for that yet.

Here's a Thought... What happens to a Familiar if the one they are bound to dies?

From what I can tell, a certain FAQ only covers what happens if a Wizard dismisses their familiar. And from what I can tell, since a Wizard dying doesn't dismiss their familiar, nor kills said familiar... It leaves a number of... Questions. Some are head scratchers, others are just musings.

For starters... Does the Familiar essentially get free roam while their master is gone?

If the Wizard is gone for good for some reason, do they get to go out and become Wizards themselves? Such as might be the case if they want to continue the Wizard's work.

What are the effects on a Familiar that remains infused with the soul of a being that has passed on since? E.G. Does a Familiar who sticks around long enough after their master's death to witness the day their master becomes an Angel feel the effects of this?

Do certain Familiars such as Cats have to learn to speak a language on their own to get by?

And here's the best part...

...What is life like for an "Orphaned" Familiar?

I look forward to hearing your takes on life for an Orphaned Cat Familiar. I'm sure it might make good campaign material.

A idle thought one morning got me thinking about a possible Campaign. One that might get thrown at me, or I might throw at others...

The quest?


The exact specifics of the sun, how it works, or what one means by "steal the Sun" can be left up to interpretation, but the point is still the same; The party must Stop the light of the sun from shining down on the characters' home planet.

So with this loosely defined quest, How do you suggest performing this activity?

If you want to be even more clever, come up with a plan for both a Pathfinder Setting based sun, and a more realistic Sun.

For reasons that are... Setting specific, as well as for allowing better class synergy; I think it may be prudent to convert all daily abilities to working under a single pool... Specifically a Ki Pool.

Some of the ideas I've worked out, others I'm not sure of. And then there's the one's I have a fair idea of, but don't have the maths worked out for.

Here's What I've got so far for the classes that don't already have Ki.

Spell-casters: Spells can be cast using Ki, Which I imagine would generally cost 1/2 their Spell level rounded up. I'm presuming the Ki points would be worked out using a similar 1/2 equation for the spell slots.

Barbarians: Use Ki to activate Rage, Ki is burned during rage at a certain rate. I assume that they get a Ki point for each round of rage.

Cavaliers/Samurai: Presumably get a number of Ki points dependent on their normal uses of the challenge ability. I'm not sure which way the numbers would go. Spend a Ki point to use a Challenge.

I have no idea on some of the others. And I'm not good at mathematically working out the conversions.

Anyone know how to take this idea and run with it... without making it as unbalanced as all hell?

I'm kinda making this idea cause... some Super Epic level Campaign I've been planning for a long time is kinda... hard to keep going at full power when the various Multiclassed stuff end up making it feel like you can't use the full range of abilities to the extent one expects of Epic characters.

Like... a level 20 Ninja only has 10 Ki points for stuff without the Ability score modifier. But considering one of the supplements I want to use has a Ki power I'd expect to use hundreds of times a day at Level 100 (of various mixed stuff)... Well... Yeah. It's hard to do without synergizing it to heck and back.

Also something I'd like a relative Ki cost for: Elemental Fist.

(P.S. Due to some Minor questions over some... Stuff. I'm considering allowing multiple applying of the Modifiers. Mainly due to things like the number of rounds of Rage allowing a constitution modifier, when this isn't usually counteracted by anything like Ki points or whatever. But When Ki points usually stack, they only let you use one Modifier. or is a single modifier the cost of synergy?)

Okay, whether RAW or RAI there seems to be a few technical agreements on the spell Anthropomorphic Animal that I kind of find annoying when one considers the usual idea behind such a spell.

So, here's my personal rulings on the spell... make of it what you will.

1- Can work on either Animals of Magical Beasts. This is partly because the fact it can only work on true animals, when a lot of magical beasts are functionally or physically the same in form is crazy.

2- Animals that get this cast on them Become Magical Beasts, and remain such even upon reverting. General rules that Intelligent creatures above score 3 are magical beasts is part of the reason, as is my rule one; the other part comes next.

3- Reverting does not take away the gathered intelligence scores. Because it would be weird if they spent months gaining intelligence bonuses from reading magic Tomes, only to wind up back at square one.

4- Anthropomorphic Animals can gain Class Levels. Seems fairly obvious to me, considering Magical beasts sometimes can.

5- As a way of circumventing possible mishaps with Dispel Magic, I would totally allow the commission of wearable items that give the effects of Anthropomorphic Animal for as long as it is worn.

6- I would not force the creature to give up any natural attacks, or give up unarmed strikes if they have a bite attack. Because that wouldn't sound right to me.

7- I would not take away other movement types. An Anthro bird that can't fly doesn't sound right.

8- I would not take away special attacks... just... trust me on this...

I'm not sure why I actually feel the need to put this up on a forum... Other than just trying to make a point here that I'm not fully aware of.

If you guys like this approach. Then thank you... if not, I'll probably use it anyways.

...And suddenly I feel like an angry internet reviewer.

Okay, I've found an ability or two that Qinggong Monk can replace that doesn't conflict with Martial Artist. Add to this a few Ninja Levels to get a Ki pool and that should give us the Necessary abilities to, by RAW, bypass the Alignment stuff that keeps most characters from using a Ki-power attack.

...A Ki attack...Such as Ki Shout.

Now, I get the feeling this is incredibly stupid... So is there any way that this WON'T end badly?

I mean, replacing Abundant Step or High Jump for a power that they will at best, only get to use once, is a bit of a waste really.

(But still, it does allow one to pretend we're in some kind of Dragon Ball Z Game. So there's that.)

Pretty much, the only way I see it working out, is if the Charisma was boosted... incredibly high for more Ninja Ki.

...Not that that's a bad idea, just incredibly... Expensive to get one's hands on all those "Tomes of Leadership and Influence".

Something like... up to 40 Charisma maybe? that'd be... What, 15 Ki points plus the 3 or so from the 6 ninja levels so... 18?

...Man this is mangled... This sounds freaking crazy... Can this train wreck of a build actually amount to anything? Or is it broken beyond repair?

Why bring up this topic? Well, pretty much, it's because that the more I think about this curse, the more it feels like it's not quite what one expects when one hears the thought "Blind Oracle". Cause at the higher limit, it pretty much seems to have the same range of vision as my "Merely short sighted" mother... who is nothing special.

I mean, it begins to sound like One could give them corrective glasses and call it a day.

So what happens when we adjust the figures? Game-wise anyways. As I myself can give an idea of each range myself. 15 feet maximum for normal vision is where it begins to feel more realistic for "Pretty much blind"

Of course, there's the question of What benefits they get in return. Which I'm kinda sketchy one what is game-breaking or not.

Assuming that Blind-sight doesn't give anything more detailed than the general shape of an object, that means that if their Blind sight went further than their normal sight, then they'd be able to fight effectively, but would have to be right next to someone if they wanted to recognize them without difficulty (such as needing a high difficulty perception check) or right in-front of a set of text to read it. (okay, that last one isn't bad unless you're looking for a specific shop I guess.)

So Here's some Rudimentary figures; and I'd like to know what kind of good or bad would they cause if used?

Normal Vision/Darkvision: 5 Feet, expands to 10 feet at lvl 5
Blindsense: 60 feet
Blindsight: 30 feet

Not sure if those numbers are good... or bad...

Still, its a more realistic depiction in my mind.

Welcome to "Inter-planar Shenanigans" general. Post anything related to that and you should be fine.

Specifically, dealing with being in a campaign that requires several teams working across several planes.

I've got some of my own stuff thought up, but feel free to make your own suggestions... and maybe help me figure out the stuff I don't know about.

Anyone dealing with having to perform quests across multiple planes is going to have a hard time of it if one can't communicate with each other. And sometimes, not every character can be a wizard, or have one nearby. Not to mention, the main ways to communicate across planes can be quite taxing on a wizard's daily spells

The best solution seems to be to create an item that can cast those spells at will. Which optimally would be things like Sending or Scrying... or both (possibly using sending to act as a ring tone to remind the one at the other end not to make a will save.) Of course, the main thing is to make them able to do those kinds of spells pretty much "At will".

I have no idea how the rules go for creating such an item, or how pricing it would go. So feel free to mention how that would work.

Item Delivery:
So, there's also the question of sending items to each other across planes. Say you need to get a new set of gear to another character who got theirs destroyed, but going in person would be a waste of time and effort.

The best I can come up with is a kind of variant of secret chest; where instead of one replica, there are several; or perhaps another magic item that acts as both the focus and the spell caster; which could be synched up with each other through a process similar to sending.

In fact, it could be put on the same item as the communication item.

Incomplete Tardis:
Need an abode that can Travel across the planes? And possibly bigger on the inside maybe? Although time travel probably isn't going to be included RAW just yet, you can do a fair bit. But considering my settings usually treat Time and planar travel as the same thing, using the same spells, that doesn't matter.

I presume a good solution would be to use another variant of Secret chest. And Create a Demi-Plane, and have a permanent planar portal placed inside the chest. And from there you can essentially move the portal where-ever you need by moving the chest. And since the chest can be sent to the ethereal realm...

The next question is how to get it go go other places than the ethereal realm. I guess the best way I can think of might be to use the recall for the chest to sort of bring it into the demi-plane it links to. And from there have a item that you can use to make a temporary gate, with which you use to kick the chest out of.

Even without the whole planar traveling thing, I'm sure that having a portal to your demi-plane that you can move around is useful.


Anyone with ideas that can make an adventure with teams in multiple planes easier should definitely post them.

Okay, a quick read through of the Mythic Playtest Reveals... some stuff...

Without saying too much, some of it concerns Mythic vampires. And a bit of... lessening its weakness to sunlight to "Nauseated and some damage".

Now, there does seem to be one good way around the nausea problem, to the point it almost seems reasonable to have them walking around in mid day for short periods: one of the Oracle Curses "Wasting" gives imunity to Nausea at higher levels.

Of course, the curse does seem a bit odd to use flavor wise.

So, I ask: Are there other options for dealing with the nauseated condition? Is there any Raw options or not? And if not, could one get away with homebrewing something up like a "Sea-sickness pill"?

Also, would it just be easier to just reskin the curse? It pretty much doesn't do much physically, its just a bit of a penalty to most charisma checks; to the point it could just as easily work by the fluff of "Unnerving pressense" instead.

Or am I over thinking this? worrying for no reason?

Okay... some campaign I've been planning has a slight problem...

How to define out the workings of player deities.

So far, I've only managed to remember one specific 3.5 Supplement that deals with it, and it has the unfortunate side effect of one specific ability it gives deities being... well... not just over powered, but actively makes spell-caster classes for them redundant.

I'll go on record now as saying it was "Dieties and Demigods", and the Divine ability in question was "Alter reality" (At will use of any spell up to LVL 9)

Is there anything I should do?

Use a different supplement? (I don't remember any others)
Use a house rule that Nerfs the ability? (Suggestions on what rule would help, if that's what you recommend)
Something else?

Your help is appreciated.

Okay, there was a bit of a discussion a while ago about whether it made sense that good deities restrict the use of negative energy, and that evil deities restrict positive energy usage.

...what made the discussion most credible, is when considering the good undead and other negative energy affinity creatures (Despite me only knowing of two.)

Considering I've made my own decision on whether it makes sense or not; I now want to ask the next few questions...

Would removing those alignment restrictions be a bad house rule?
Would it unbalance the game?
Would negative energy paladins of good be too far fetched or out of place?

Or would it do the exact opposite?

Basically, I want to know how stupid or smart such a house rule would be.

Especially in the presence of overly common good undead.

Okay... For various reasons, I keep envisioning both campaigns and character concepts that work better without any Armour.

Such as a Cavalier/Wizard character, a setting where Metal is expensive to use for anything other than weapons, and most important, the occasional thought of playing an epic level campaign or other situation where the dexterity modifier has gone through the roof and Armour is effectively useless.

So, is there anything I should do in such a situation? Or do they work perfectly fine without the Armour?

I'd like to ask something, and you can take it where you may...

What do you want to see done with Outsiders?

If you're not sure yet, here's a few questions to get you started:

->What outsider subtypes do you want to see more species put in? (Azata, Devil, Etc.)
->Are the Fiendish outsiders more important to you? Or Celestials?
->What about the Lawful/Chaotic Neutral outsiders? (Inevitables, Proteans, etc.)
->Would it be nice to have a less "Mordenkai" and less crazy True Neutral Outsider/Outsider-Subtype?
->What kind of Outsiders do you expect to be included if more were added?
->Would you want more Outsider Subtypes available?

I have a few personal wants, but I'll leave them till later, or this post might get long.

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Okay, Considering some mild complexity involved with a certain character, I'm conflicted about which alignment she classifies as in the scheme of Law vs Chaos. And While I have my own ideas, I'm a little Biased so I want you all to Judge her.

Here we go, This one's either a Wizard or a Sage Bloodline sorcerer:

-The character has an extremely tactical mind, and is able to organize her life to extremes. She helps run several events with this skill.
-She rarely imposes rules on others, she merely gives insight and knowledge.
-She has Several times lied, and once attempted to steal a scroll from a private Archive.
-She has good relations with royalty, however this is more because she is the student of one of the Princesses.
-She Has once caused absolute Chaos in a town in an attempt to make up for a single deadline that she wasn't prepared for.
-Once suggested building an exact replica of a town that was falling apart, so that it wouldn't mar the visit from her Teacher (the princess).
-Has Fits of Rage at times.
-Once helped out another girl who had stolen the Princesses Royal Pet, so as to take care of it. Which let her to lie about it to the Royal Guards.
-Obsessed with knowledge, to the point that nothing will stop her from obtaining it. Rules be damned.
-An A+ Student. Very Studious, and diligent in her studies.
-Has the Tendency to freak out when her plans fail.
-Is Skeptical Minded when things don't conform to logic.
-Once Dressed up as a Masked Superhero in order to teach her friend not to let her pride go to her head for saving a few people.(When said friend was acting like she was a superhero, even without a costume).
-Her Friends have an awful habit of breaking stuff.
-Although is good with tactics and time management, can barely keep a library organized; and often seems to be the one that puts the library out of order.
-Went crazy at her brother for not telling her that he was engaged.
-Yelled out that the Bride of a wedding was Evil at the top of her lungs. (It was a shape-shifter pretending to be the bride, but not the point.)
-Didn't hesitate to do something childish in-front of the Princess's niece, simply because they did it when they were young.

What Alignment does that^ Sound Like?

P.S. Anyone who knows which character I'm talking about, please don't mention who it is without Spoilers.

...The Tittle says most of what I think this Topic comes down to. So lets cut to my thoughts.

First, there's a handful of bloodlines where no Wild-blooded version exists. I think they are the Genies mostly.

Second, some of the Bloodlines ignore that there are more possibilities than just that mutant version...

...Such as my personal Request- an Imperial Dragon Bloodline.

Third, The Brutal and Sylvan Lines are not quite as remarkable for those wings for limited flight time; when Celestial, Draconian and Infernal (plus their Wild-bloods) can all fly without any time limit but Fatigue.

Anyone Else's thoughts?

Okay, the Clone spell supplied with the Rule-set is quite useful, but it doesn't really do the one thing we would all want it to do...

Start a Clone War!

Now, I'm not saying that's a good idea; but the question remains, how does one Duplicate an existing character? Is there a rule somewhere that would make that possible? Or would that be too broken?

I'm asking, cause in a campaign where Time-Paradox Duplicates are way too common; it would be nice to have a duplicate that someone made that is just a simple Genetic clone for once, and not some "Future you coming back to save the day!"

I tried Homebrewing something up; but my version sounds like its horribly broken.

Also, is there anything for creating a Chimera of two Races for use as the clone? Cause that's the original idea I had; a test tube grown mix up of a couple of characters that inherited some of each of their memories (And skills).

P.S. I am aware of simulacrum, I just find it useless in this situation as it doesn't gain levels.

Okay, I've been looking for something to use for when a character needs to duplicate another character, or maybe create a whole new one. And since the "Clone" spell insists that the Flesh is Inert. And Simulacrum says that the Creature doesn't improve in levels...

So, Homestuck Inspired "Ecto-Biology" it is then. And with that, I can probably come up with a few other things I wanted.

These are idea's I just came up with in a spare hour of my time. They have not been formalised or balanced yet. Assume they can work as either Alchemist Extracts, Wizard/Sorcerer Spells, or Oracle/Cleric Spells. Also, These have the possibility of being horribly broken and abused.

So, Shall we?

Copy Soul: Allows the Caster/Alchemist to use raw matter of Life energy to create a relatively acurate representation of an existing being's soul. The soul is stored in a Gem (Cost approximately that of "Trap Soul") for future use in other spells. If used in the creation of a creature, the creature it is built into will have the Levels, feats, and chosen class abilities of the being it is modeled after as of the time of the copy's creation. (Spell Level 6?)

Imbue Clone: Inserts a trapped or copied soul into a spare clone or other inert Body. The Body and the soul does not need to be of the same being, but mismatched races of the two will cause the need to redistribute some race base attributes, similar to using reincarnate. Apply Negative Levels as normal for the spells used to create the body.
(Spell Level 6?)

Chimeric Clone: Creates an inert Body, similar to Clone, using the genetic features of two different creatures. Half the racial traits of each creature are mixed together for the resulting creature. Can be used as a normal Clone for one of the cloned creatures, or imbued with the Imbue Clone spell/extract. Functions Similar to reincarate, but with the Race already determined. (Spell Level 6?)

Enhance Clone: Using Energy Siphoned from another Plane, one can enhance a Clone or inert body with Planar Traits. The Resulting Clone will be of the Outsider Type with any subtypes appropriate for the chosen Plane. For the outer planes, Apply the Celestial, Resolute, Entropic, and Feindish Templates as they apply to the Plane in Question. Also apply the advanced template to the resulting Creature. (Spell Level 6?)

Create Replicant: Creates a Mechanical Body that Functions similarly to a Clone or inert Body.Can be used as a normal Clone, or imbued with the Imbue Clone spell/extract. The resulting body functions as a construct with the Robot Subtype, save that it can be Raised, Resurected, or reincarnated. The Body can be made without the spell, much like a construct, for the Cost of an Appropriately sized Construct, plus the 50% cost for the Robot subtype; however, this method will not automatically awaken on the Origional's death, and must have Imbue Clone cast on it to function.(Spell Level 6?)

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

Okay, there's a character concept for an epic level Campaign I've got. It's a 20th Ex Monk (Four Winds) 20th Bard, 10th Shadow Dancer and 10th Duelist.

Now, there's the minor question of hiding the minor Animalistic features of one the four winds' features (Tiger Stripes, other feline features like muzzle and cat ears etc.) Is there a way that allows that to happen for extended periods of time?

Also, not sure if this is a job for a Bard spell of some kind, or straight up disguise.

Any ideas?

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Okay, I seem to have homebrew'd myself a pot of trouble trying to make a set of Powers that a character can take in place of a feat...

... I don't think any of them are quite balanced.

That said, that might not Matter, as the reason I came up with them was to simulate Some extreme Anime style Fights. (Level a mountain with one shot? Yes Please!) And not to mention: they are intended for a bunch of characters that were created to start at LV 61.

-and also Rainbow Dash, but that's not important yet.

So, Have a look. And tell me if they can stay, or if I should shoot them, or just give them a shave.

And now for the list:

Challenge (Ex): The Character Gains a number of Challenges Equal to 1/3 her Total Level, with a Damage bonus equal to current Level. Can only be taken once. Stacks with existing Challenges if the character has them (or gains them).

Ki Pool (Su): The Character gains a Number of Ki points Equal to 1/2 her Total Character Level. Can only be taken once. Stacks with existing Ki Pools if the character has them (or gains them).

Rage (Ex): The Character gains a Number of rounds of Rage Equal to 2x her Total Character Level. Can only be taken once. Stacks with existing Rage rounds if the character has them (or gains them).

Ki Blast (Su): Performs an attack using a focused Ki Wave. A successful Attack deals 1d6 Sonic and an additional 1d6 for every 2 levels above 1st, plus the Charisma Modifier, the Strength Modifier, and the Dexterity Modifier. Costs 5 Ki points. Can be used as a Melee attack or ranged. Uses a Range increment of 60ft.

Ki Blade (Su): Performs an attack by charging the wielder’s Weapon(s). A successful Attack deals Sonic Damage of the Weapon’s Dice type Plus and additional Die for every 2 Levels above 1st (1d10 become 2d10, etc.), plus the Charisma Modifier, the Strength Modifier, and the Dexterity Modifier. Costs 5 Ki points. Can be used as a Melee attack or ranged. Uses a Range increment of 60ft.

Hot Blooded(Su): You may spend 1 point from your Ki pool as a swift action to add your Charisma score for all melee or ranged attacks you make that round. Can be combined with Similar Abilities for more power.

Accelerate (Su): You may spend 1 point from your Ki pool as a swift action to add your Dexterity score for all melee or ranged attacks you make that round. Can be combined with Similar Abilities for more power.

Fury Slice (Su): While raging, you can use your Melee strikes and weapons as though they were ranged weapons with a range increment of 60 ft. Using a solid force of Rage as the attack rather than throwing the weapon or fist.

Ki Wave(Su): Spend 1 Ki point and you can use your Melee strikes and weapons as though they were ranged weapons with a range increment of 60 ft. Using a solid force of Ki energy as the attack rather than throwing the weapon or fist. This effect lasts for 1 Minute.

Perfect Flight (Ex): Improves Flight Quality to Perfect.

Extreme Speed (Ex): While Raging, Flight and/or Land speed is increased by 7050 ft. Alternately; this Ability can also be activated for 1 Minute outside of Rage, or those without the Rage ability, by spending 1 Ki Point.

^Definately overpowered from a pure numbers perspective, it's the Speed of sound in real life. Thing is, I doubt it's going to have much of a impact on play; besides allowing that character to ignore 90% of map details; and being able to just flee when things go bad.

Frequent Rest (EX): Can restore 1/8 of daily allotments of Special Abilities (Rage, Spells, Ki, Challenges) by sleeping or meditating for 1 hour. This does not affect the amount available after a full Night’s Sleep, but does allow one to stave off the effects of fatigue longer.

Sonic Rainboom (Su): This effect causes seven shimmering, multicolored beams of light to spray out in all directions. Each beam has a different power. Creatures in the area of the spell with 8 HD or less are automatically blinded for 2d4 rounds. Every creature in the area is randomly struck by one or more beams which Deals 1d10 Damage for every two Character Level each, and have additional effects. Costs 5 Ki points to use.
1d8 Color of Beam Effect
1 Red 20 points fire damage (Reflex half)
2 Orange 40 points acid damage (Reflex half)
3 Yellow 80 points electricity damage (Reflex half)
4 Green Poison (Frequency 1/rd. for 6 rd.; Init. effect death; Sec. effect 1 Con/rd.; Cure 2 consecutive Fort saves)*
5 Blue Flesh to stone (Fortitude negates)
6 Indigo Insane, as insanity spell (Will negates)
7 Violet Sent to another plane (Will negates)
8 Struck by two rays Roll twice more, ignoring any "8" results

Rainbow Road (Su): Creates a vertical, opaque wall trailing behind your movement- a shimmering, multicolored plane of light that protects you from all forms of attack. The wall flashes with seven colors, each of which has a distinct power and purpose. The wall is immobile, and you can pass through and remain near the wall without harm. Any other creature with less than 8 HD that is within 20 feet of the wall is blinded by the colors for 2d4 rounds if it looks at the wall.
The wall's maximum proportions are 4 feet wide per caster level and 2 feet high per caster level. A Rainbow Road Placed in a space occupied by a creature is disrupted, and the spell is wasted.
Each color in the wall has a special effect. The accompanying table shows the seven colors of the wall, the order in which they appear, their effects on creatures trying to attack you or pass through the wall. Those trying to pass though the wall also get harmed by 1d6 Damage per 2 Character Levels.
. Costs 4 Ki points to use. Fades after 1 Minute.
1d8 Color Effect of Color
1 Red Stops non-magical ranged weapons.
Deals 20 points of fire damage (Reflex half).
2 Orange Stops magical ranged weapons.
Deals 40 points of acid damage (Reflex half).
3 Yellow Stops poisons, gases, and petrification.
Deals 80 points of electricity damage (Reflex half).
4 Green Stops breath weapons.
Poison (Frequency: 1/rd. for 6 rd.; init. effect: death, sec. effect: 1 Con/rd.; Cure 2 consecutive Fort saves).
5 Blue Stops divination and mental attacks.
Turned to stone (Fortitude negates).
6 Indigo Stops all spells.
Will save or become insane (as insanity spell).
7 Violet Energy field destroys all objects and effects.*
Creatures sent to another plane (Will negates).
8 Affected twice Roll twice more, ignoring any "8" results

...And now to wait until I get insulted for something I don't fully understand...

Okay, I'm not Good at explaining Why I need to Know, So I'll Just Explain the what:

There's a character I'm trying to work out the details of (Mechanically) that runs on the Logic of having gone above and beyond the point they are equal to the Gods ages ago.

Basically The Character so far is detailed as so:
20 Levels of Standard Barbarian.
20 levels of Barbarian with the "Urban Barbarian" Archetype.
20 levels of Ninja.
1-20 levels of Cavalier with "Beast Rider" and "Emissary" Archetypes; and is "Order of the Dragon".

...I've bitten off more than I can chew here, but I kinda need to work all this out.

I'm not exactly looking to get it optimized, just pointed in the right direction to have it not... fail Horribly.

There's this one Fact in the Bestiary entry about the Azata that is... a little up for interpretation, and I want to hear your input.

...Being quick to seek out feelings of love, joy, and companionship, but rarely feel bound or exclusive to merely one lover regardless of its race.

How one interprets that may have something to do with which part one stresses. For example, there's my Favored reading:

...Being quick to seek out feelings of love, joy, and companionship, but rarely feel bound or exclusive to merely one lover regardless of its race.

...where it implies that they can form deep and meaningful love based relationships that last; but they aren't compelled to stick with only one if they happen to form a second lasting bond of love.

Its a rational of "I love you both till the end of time".

However, there's another reading; which the more conservative or cynical may see:

...Being quick to seek out feelings of love, joy, and companionship, but rarely feel bound or exclusive to merely one lover regardless of its race.

With this Reading, it puts one in the position that they may be quick to abandon a lover if it causes them too much trouble. I personally doubt that, as it would go against the nature of "beings of pure good and Chaos"... And I wish I could put more emphasis on "good" there.

There may be a third Reading, Let me Check:

...Being quick to seek out feelings of love, joy, and companionship, but rarely feel bound or exclusive to merely one lover regardless of its race.

This one is the kind of reading that says, "Yeah, they can have strong feelings of love for you; but they also have those feelings for a lot of those that they get to know."


So, Which do you guys think is the best interpretation? Or is there another? Or is it a mix of all these interpretations?

(Off-Topic: Also, Why has nobody noticed the General Thread on Robots in Pathfinder?)

I wanted to discuss how one Approaches the issue of Robots in their Games, But I realized That there's probably a lot on that topic to go over...

So, without further Fuss, let the first General "Robots in Pathfinder" Thread Begin!

Possible Topics:
-Whether Constructs being non-resurrect-able is a bane to making them player characters.
-Various House Rules on Robots.
-What "Living Construct" would mean in a rules, Logic, and lore sense; if adopted into Pathfinder. (By home-rules or otherwise.)
-Do Robots have the ability to gain souls? (and what would that mean?)
-Can, or should, a robotic body be used as a mundane/Mechanical Version of the "Clone" Spell?
-Is the "Robot" subtype for Constructs Truly sufficient for our longings for Robots in a game?
-What about Robotic Outsiders? Do Inevitables have to be the only ones? Or can a Chaotic deity of Artifice:Constructs make their own version?
-Can "dead" robots go to Heaven? (assuming they were Lawful Good.)
-What happens if a Robot spends too much time on the Positive (or Negative) energy Planes without being destroyed?
-Same as above but with the Rest of the Planes other than the material.

...And that is the tip of the iceberg! I mean it, Go Crazy!

Okay, I've got a basic campaign idea that I came up with that I mentioned to some guys on another site. The campaign's premise goes something like this:

The Main Villain has control of time, and knowing the entire history between the beginning and end, he has a foolproof plan to further his goals.

Safe in the Outer planes, he forces his younger self to pull off a perfect campaign to take over the world. And worse, thanks to the dynamics of time in my setting, anything that manages to somehow stop him despite his perfect plan that will break the timeline.

...The only way to even begin to defeat him is to gain assistance from the Outer Planes (being outside the timeline, and safe from its effects) and even that will still kill everything if they don't have a way to suck the entire world into the outer planes handy.


Now, as I mentioned, I brought this up on another site; and they said:

Expect your players to try to pull off the "Dream of Metal" Trick.


I have no idea what they mean by that... Any ideas?

The Void Domain... A domain with so much potential, and yet so... Crazy... Fluff wise anyways.

One of the settings I'm trying to make doesn't see the empty space between stars that way. It's more of a thing of serene knowledge, of Arcane, Divine, and Technological. A thing of... Beauty...

...I'd like to have a domain as romantic as that...


Now that I'm done being Dramatic, here's a quick run down:

->Okay, so Base void Domain has an Ability that Causes confusion called "Part the Veil"...I don't think that's going to work in a non-Crazy Void Domain. Needs Replacing.

->Stars Sub-domain is Fine. Perfect Even.

->"Dark Tapestry" Sub-Domain Has Two problems, but one called "It came from beyond" is thankfully easy fixed with a re-skin ... The other problem is finding a replacement LV7 Spell for "Insanity".


If you want to know what kind of feel I'd for the replacements, just think of... Life on a really high tech space ship I guess; think of the Star Ocean JRPG of of the Star Trek Tv Show. Whatever you pick should be just as easy to romanticize as that.

If That doesn't work, try changing the name of the Void domain to "Space", and Dark Tapestry to "Constellations" or something...


I'd love to see this work. And Thank you in advance if I actually get any replies to this.

I Always find a few creatures I have a fondness for the concept of, but I usually find myself annoyed when a few of them end up as an Alignment I don't approve of; For whatever reason.

I always Know We can just rule it otherwise, but sometimes, the cannon alignments still bug me.

So I want us all to discuss our Top 10's of Monsters we wish were another Alignment.

Mine in Reverse Order:

10- Animate Dream: I always think of dreams as that safe place where I'm surrounded by friends, and I get to beat the stuffing out of whatever uncomfortable feelings I have. And even When I wake up, I'm sure that the bad guys in my dreams are just playing the role for a better purpose. (Nightmares are a different story.) So I'm quite disappointed that Animate Dream is Pretty much Pure Evil (NE). Why can't we have some kind of Dream critter that follows you around as a playful companion, eats the nightmares (thus giving you good dreams) and all around is nice to You? Sounds like Kingdom Hearts 3D's "Spirits" side of Dream Eaters, Yes, But I'm allowed to want that, even If I'm only going to get it through home brew.

Preferred Alignment: Chaotic Good

9- Inevitables: I know I shouldn't be asking for a change to the alignment for one of the outer plane Entities... but I'm a little concerned that Something's missing when one says "Machines are by nature Lawful". And considering how many Evolving pieces of technology in anime I've seen that are anything but Predictable, It begins to sound like a stereotype. I mean, I've seen programs that Rage at the gods one minute, and extol the virtues of humanity the next, and close the scene by going complete overkill for no reason, all in defiance of the Authority... So yeah, I'd like to see an after-life that panders to Cyber Punk Crowd, or conversely to the Future-Fantasy/Science-Fantasy Crowd. It might not have to be the Inevitable themselves, but still.

Preferred Alignment: Use of All of them...

8- Aeons: Yeah... The more I think about Aeons, the more I think their Modus Operandi is Broken. They essentially say "Hey, the universe needs to be in a state of never-ending Conflict to stay around, We're going to force that on you!" And at that point I feel like cleansing them from the planes. Theoretically, They're "True Neutral"... but to me, they come across as Lawful Evil in practice.

Preferred Alignment: Lawful Evil, then I'd have an excuse to wipe the floor with their unreasoning behinds.

7- Shikigami: So... A race of diverse creatures, able to shape-shift, as familiars seem to be personally tailored to their spell-caster, and for some reason are still treated as Lawful Neutral? This makes it sound like "Lawful Neutral" was chosen Arbitrarily. I mean... They seem to be THE codifier of spirit companion, and yet they can't be spirit companions to just anybody?

Preferred Alignment: Use of All of them...

6- AstraDaemon: I'm not going to justify this one beyond "they look too cool, and also too dark, to be stuck as Evil". I just freaking like them, and I don't want beings that look like the freaking night sky to be classed as evil. Yeah, it's petty, but I thought I deserved to have one petty moment mixed in with all the better thought out ones.(Shame about their face looking like a fish though.)

Preferred Alignment: Chaotic Good.

5- Vulpinals: Yeah... I'm pretty sure foxes are seen as the more "Trickster" Arch-type. I still like the fact that they're good, but really, how may times have you seen a Mythological fox uphold the virtues of society? None right? Now compare to how many Scammed them, took their money, and used what they got to reward some guy for helping them the other day? In Japan... that kind of thing happens... A lot.

Preferred Alignment: Chaotic Good.

4- Kitsune: Same as Vulpinals, Only more so, as they actually ARE the Japanese tricksters who help people. So excuses here, Kitsune really ARE Chaotic Good in the Myths. The fact that they are still described in lore as being tricksters, but them and their goddess are listed as Neutral seems out of place.

Preferred Alignment: Chaotic Good.

3- Dhampir: Considering the idea of the Dhampir brings to my mind the possibility of a hero that although good, scorns the light, and seeks to bring bat-man style justice to the streets of the local Gotham city rip-off... Unfortunately, their Cannon Alignment says "they don't get much better than Neutral, and they are usually evil"... And at that point I'm reminded of how annoyed I get when one says that dark is usually evil; and how much I would like to see undead taken away from being called Evil themselves when it really doesn't make sense.

Preferred Alignment: Use of All of them... More so than now anyways.

2- Undead in general: See Dhampir just above there? Apply all that, and then add together all the cool undead that I want to see do something heroic for a change. The Nightshades and the Shadows being evil are my biggest annoyance as a "Dark is not Evil" lobbyist. And then there's the fact that undead themselves are animated by what is essentially One of several kinds of metaphysical darkness (although apparently not necessarily actual darkness, as the darkness domain barely qualifies as using it.). I mean... WHY?! Why do you have to make me weep for my precious night?!

Preferred Alignment: USE OF ALL OF THEM! I MEAN IT! ALL! OF! THEM!

1- Scaeduinar: At this point, if you know what the Sceaduinar are, you know where this is going... for those who don't have their Bestiary at the ready, they're essentially the sole Denizens that actually belong in the Negative energy Plane. As such, you can guess I'm probably going to say they shouldn't be listed as evil, much like all the other dark stuff on this list... but here's the kicker... They probably wouldn't be Evil in the first place if the positive energy plane's denizen's weren't such massive [expunged]... I mean The positive energy plane's Denizens the Jyoti are said to have stolen the ability to create from the Sceaduinar. And that makes me want to beat the Jyoti over the head with a frying pan.

Preferred Alignment: Neutral or Use of Any is fine, but at this point, Chaotic Good would be practically Justified.


And that's all for me folks, What's you're top ten "I wish it were a different Alignment" Creatures?

P.S. Sorry if this got long winded, annoying, or whiny, or if it became a rant.

I've been thinking over a character concept that doesn't fit... Neatly between Wizard or Sorcerer. It's more of a halfway thing; focused primarily on the Spontaneous vs Prepared part, but also on the bloodlines part and Limited spells part.

Problem is, Treating a Multiclass between the two as the normal rules ask one to, kind of leads to a weaker character. Really, it's probably better to come up with a solution that fuses the two.

The version I came up with is the inverse of one solution I heard elsewhere. Take the Sorcerer, in all it's limited spell glory, give them a spell-book, and allow them to sacrifice one of their Spontaneous slots to Prepare a spell that is written in the spell-book, that they haven't learned "Off by heart".

Treating them this way allows them to prepare for future situations without cost blowouts, and yet still be able to cast their most used Sorcerer spells that are much harder to predict how many uses of one would need.

After thinking about that for a while I also noticed that a few Wizard Archetypes can easily be applied to Sorcerers, and that they might fit really well together in some circumstances. Such as the Wizard's Spell-Slinger, which apart from the whole "Loose four schools" thing fits with sorcerer without complaint (Assume that when it says "Replaces Arcane Bond", for Sorcerers that means "1st Level Bloodline Power" which Arcane Bond shows up as in one of the Bloodlines... you know the one.)

I think this method solves a few problems I'd have with a few things I'm trying to work with...

...but I know someone out there is not going to approve of this lightly, so I submit this For your Scrutiny; so I can judge better whether Including it in a campaign is worth the Risk.

So, say one has a setting where Wizardry is a rare thing. Maybe One needs to be born with magic blood, meaning only sorcerers cast arcane magic. Maybe its simply that Nobody invented wizardry. Maybe there is no Magic at all. Maybe Knowledge on using magic is controlled.

Whatever the case, the game calls for a wizard, but a wizard isn't going to fit the situation. What does one do?

Here's a few I'm trying to think up:

Spellslinger: Yeah, I know it's already a wizard archetype, a wizard that uses a gun to cast their spells instead of other methods. All one has to do is fluff it up a bit.
Somantic: swinging the arcane guns around.
Materials: loaded into the cart-rage.
Focus: The Gun itself.
Magical Energy: Built into the gun or, loaded like a bullet.
Spell Preparation: Spell turned into a form of ammunition.

Advantages: Good for settings that are otherwise "Sorcerer only".
Disadvantages: Bad for settings without Magic, or little technology.

Hacker: So, Your world has no Magic, Why not try supper science? All one has to do is note that Data can be "Physicallised" in order to rewrite parts of reality.
Somantic: Tapping out commands on a virtual Keyboard that they programmed into themselves.
Materials: Magnetic Strip Cards with (possibly expensive) code triggers. Gets wiped by the static interference of the program.
Focus: An emitter perhaps? Like a radar dish.
Magical Energy: What Magic? It's a program!
Spell Preparation: Writing out an entire program; most programs would "Transfer" out of their tech influence once executed meaning that it would have to be wrote out all again for the next casting.

Advantages: Good for settings that are otherwise "Sorcerer only", Good for settings Without any Magic.
Disadvantages: Bad for settings without super science.

Woven Wizard:
Assuming that you're using a sorcerer only setting, one could roughly assume that some may have figured out a way to use the parts of Magical beasts or magical plants to work as their preferred source of magical energy when they have none of their own. And they could easily take those parts and craft them into gloves that substitute for their lack of innate magic. Assume it otherwise works like a normal wizard.

Advantages: Good for settings where it's technically "Sorcerer only". Works as a good explanation of wizardry in itself.
Disadvantages: Setting won't stay "Sorcerer only" for long.


Well, that does it for me for tonight, feel free to post your own reskins.

Okay, searched most of the web for this one bit of information, and neither Official nor Homebrew sources have said much about it.

... How does one price a Vehicle that one designs One's self?

So far, the best option I've Come up with is to Use "Animated Object"'s price tag as a template for how to calculate the cost, and go from there. Which is: the price of the object(ignore) + [HD+CP]*1000 (Divide by 2 for construction cost).

From there I can estimate the approximate cost of the Vessel by dividing material HP by ten (to simulate the Hit Die it would have), and adding on CP Based on the attributes of speed One wants it to have, and whether it flies or swims.

The problem with that is that it ignores a few things like... the fact that one of the costs that came out for a really big Space ship of 600 squares that moves at 1020ft/6secs was a little... less expensive than one would expect. Even though it's a hypothetical ship.


My "Space Ship" idea- 2 Million Gold or so.
Alchemical Dragon- 100,000 G

That sounds reasonable... Until one realizes that almost every stat of the Space ship is about 10-20 times better and yet can still be roughly affordable on the same allowance. (Took you a week to loot enough treasure for the Alchemical Dragon? Don't worry, come next winter, you'll be able to cross the entire planet in a day...AND go to the moon.)

So, anyone got any better ideas? Or do you think I'm being a bit hard on my own solution?

P.S. And suddenly I'm reminded of a question That's probably not big enough for it's own thread... If one was going to allow some Vehicles to become ACTUAL Animated Objects, would they be able to be classified as mounts in some cases? E.g. A Motorcycle?

I've been thinking, that if the Mirror of Opposition didn't do the whole "Alignment flippy" thing for the copied creature, it would be a much more palatable wondrous item to have around. Both for Good guys and bad guys.

Now, the rules say nothing about a "non-flippy version", but most of the mechanics of it are more... um... fluffy than anything, and the rest can be done by photocopying the character sheet. So it would be easy to just bring up a name for it and run with it.

The Obvious question is... Should I?

Does the possibility of throwing an army of clones at an enemy once one steals the mirror cheapen the campaign?

Does the Enemy having the mirror make it utterly Impossible to win? Or Somehow make the forces seem faceless?

Would it be something so overpowered that it should be kept away from a campaign at all costs?

Aside:...hmm... By all rights, those same problems would still be faced with the normal Mirror of Opposition, if a smart player or GM faced the Mirror to an imprisoned character that was the opposite alignment to the one who imprisoned them...

I think the mirror concept is cool, no matter whether it's a "flippy" mirror or "non-flippy", I've just got the sinking feeling that its a bad idea to actually implement it into a campaign.

Are my fears founded or not? Is there some way to juggle usefulness of the mirror with its over-powered-ness to make it a great addition to a campaign ,Long term, and not just a one time thing?

...Any other Thoughts even?

There seemed to be some minor point in the Appendix of the Advanced Race guide that's got me pondering: In the Tables for "Starting Ages", there seemed to be three categories of how that character's "Training" for their class works, and thus how long it takes for them to be ready for play.

They go something like this:
-Intuitive: Rogues, Sorcerers, Oracles, Barbarians.
-Self-Taught: Bards, Cavaliers, Fighters, Gunslingers, Paladins, Rangers, Summoners, Witches.
-Trained: Alchemists, Clerics, Druids, Inquisitors, Magus, Monks, Wizards.

How I'm confused is what exactly each means for stories of a character going to what is essentially a "Hero's Academy". Not to mention how much the literal meanings of those category names conflicts with my Head-Canon.

1- A Wizard that spend most hours of the day reading books on magic, but rarely goes to see her teacher for active training. Does that not sound like "self taught"? But it's in the Trained Section. Does that mean Self Taught for her would take just as long (or longer) than being personally trained?

2- Some of the "intuitive" classes look to plausibly be able to be taught, even if it's a kind of informal training. Sorcerers are described as being able to learn their powers through introspective meditation, which theoretically, another character could be able to give them pointers on (Even though it will sound like obvious advice, "feel the magic flow through you" and all).

(Continued)- And then with Rogues and Barbarians, its easy to imagine lessons often taking the form of either obstacle courses; or straight up sparing. But still, the word "intuitive" implies that one can learn it without outside help, and the skills come easily, and yet I'm not sure that's the case, or else Every chaotic character would be a Barbarian the moment they became irritable. I don't know, I'm missing half the picture. Maybe I'm using the wrong meaning of "Intuitive" and I should use the "Instinctual" meaning instead; which would at least imply that someone needs to learn how to listen to those instincts.

3- The "Self-taught" category sounds odd. Especially when compared to Intuitive. What's the difference? That one requires thought? No, that doesn't sound right, Sorcerers probably have to put a lot of thought into learning to control their magic through their emotions or whatever. And a barbarian would probably put just as much effort into learning to fill themselves with rage. And Rogues... Well, Learning the tricks probably requires some idea of how to perform the tricks they do.

(continued- And what about comparing them to "Trained"? Logically a Fighter is more likely to have learned the tricks of combat from somebody than not, as would cavaliers and Paladins. Bards likely had a teacher at one point to show them the basics, and then took it from there. Witches although more likely to be self taught, are also one class that pretty much has the potential to learn a spell from another. And so on...

Pretty much, in terms of logic, I've come to these thoughts:
-Intuitive classes COULD be taught as if they were Trained classes, or self-taught classes; through advice or reflection on how to better harness their natural abilities and instincts, or even through trials set up to challenge them to the limit of their abilities.
-Self-Taught Classes Can, and often are, taught by another at some point, usually one on one, or through rivalry. Although, most probably strike out on their own to learn the rest in field assignments for a while; often coming back to learn more once they've mastered what they learned last time.
-Trained Classes could attempt to learn their class as if it was Self-Taught, but it would require mountains worth of devotion to learning those skills, and would probably require many a reference guide to the point they would have put in just as much effort, and got just as much knowledge from outside sources (Through books) as a trained character would. And in a few instances, they may even put in extreme levels of effort just to come up with something through their powers of deduction alone; usually to create a brand new spell.

I'm probably over-thinking this aren't I?

Oh well. Like the Tittle says, "three words made me think too hard".

The Oracle's Clouded Vision curse is detailed as limiting vision to only 30ft (or 60ft later). But there are a few items which seem to enhance various senses, such as a few that give a character Blind-sight.

My questions go something like this: If one gives a "Clouded Vision" Oracle an Item that would enhance a normal character's senses beyond the Oracle's 30 or 60 ft limit on sight, would that actually... "Work"? Or is all their senses capped off at that level, and will never go beyond it?

Of course, I'm specifically talking about a sort of... Home-brew enhanced version of the "Swordmaster's Blindfold" Which normally give about a five foot range of blind-sight to the wearer, but I'm thinking it's not beyond the realm of logic or possibility to push it... a lot further for the sake of a campaign and character Premise. Even if it is a often used one.

...Yes, I'm aware that they can already get blind-sight, It's that I also was thinking of a sort of dual cursed character that used the sight thing as the lesser one...

Anyways, there's also a second question in here somewhere... How much would it cost to bump up the range of the "Swordmaster's Blindfold" anyways? Considering its listed as costing about 80,000 for the 5ft, plus a Locate weakness spell stuck on constant for melee attacks.

I've always managed to find myself idolizing the night and other dark things. But so Far, there's been... only two things I can remember that fall on the side of good or neutral while being attuned with darkness. One is Desna (and she's still fighting to actually GET the domain of Darkness... I think), and the other is the Shadow-dancers prestige class.

So, I want to discuss the possibilities of Good or Neutral beings of darkness, however one wants to explain it. I Would appreciate both suggestions of your own ideas, and thoughts on my... somewhat strange ideas. So here goes:

-Appeasing the Sceaduinar-
The Bestiary entry for the Sceaduinar (outsiders of the Negative energy plane, which is kind of like darkness) mentions that they believe the Jyoti (Their Positive energy counterparts) stole their ability to create. Making positive and Negative into Creation and Destruction as opposed to simply light and dark.

So, pressuming they are... reasonable, all one has to do is bargain with them to not be malicious to life, get their ability to create back in exchange (either steal it back from the Jyoti or get a god to set them up with it) and then wait for... some time as their will to do evil gets erroded away by their gratefulness and drunkenness on their ability to create.

I may be pushing that a bit, but... yeah, it sounds plausible. Especially if you are of the opinion that getting enough Wizards and Clerics to Cast Wish and Miracle can solve the problem.\

This sounds more like a quest line than a rule based solution though.

-Desna Specific Outsiders-
I'm surprised that the various Gods don't have their own Specific outsiders, just some for the general alignment. And I find it strange that Desna's alignment would have the Azata-Ghaele; a light based Alignment outsider; and no dark ones.

Though I'm not sure if this is a task for Home-brewers to fix up a stat block for, or whether it should be something for a future rule book.

Anyways, sounds logical that one would exist somewhere in someone's Cannon. Even if it is just my Head Cannon.

(P.S. I don't think rare things like the Night Monarch and it's offspring count, they don't show up often enough, and I'm pretty sure souls don't turn into them... Oh yeah, and the chance of running into them are Almost nil.)

-Desna Steals Zon-Kuthon's Domain of Darkness-
... for the most Part Self explanatory... Maybe. Desna Kills Zon-Kuthon and Takes his Domain of Darkness. And from there, any creatures associated with it become part of Desna's Crew... or something. I don't know. Problem is, The only things expressed to be associated with it is shadows. So... Yeah, that's a bummer.

Unless of course one can re-skin the shadow six ways to sunday to the point it feels like you're playing A Square-Enix Game (Recent Kingdom Hearts in particular), and then amalgamate the unliving fluff out of them.

...Speaking of Which...

-Wizards Amalgamate stuff!-
I found an "Amalgam template" somewhere, that works Okay... save for one problem... a lot of the results tend to feel a bit... overpowered if you Amalgamate too many things in the hope of getting exactly what you want from it.

Which would be fine if there were epic Levels readily available, but considering two or three major factors, that is not the case.

The Factors? Mostly that few people reach epic levels, few ways exist to go into epic levels, and of the few ways that do exist, many people consider them unbalanced... Multi-Classing sounds good though, But I don't know why.

One Thing I tried to create through the Amalgam Template Took about four Outsiders (A Protean, an Inevitable, An Agathion and An Azata) and a brief comparison to ~20 CR creatures made it look like it was a super soldier as compared to a regular soldier... And I made it out of ~16 CR Creatures. And my Working on a "Version 2" that adds the Sceaduinar to the mix seems to be set to push it into "I need new pants" territory.

... My only reasonable solution would be to fill the setting with creatures and races of similar power to compensate. And that could take me months.

-Reskin a few existing creatures-
Self Explanatory. But it feels Cheap to me. It's like some joke from Darths & Droids.


Qui-Gon: Let's see. Electro-axe. Energy mace. "Plasma bow"?? You just took a D&D equipment list and stuck techy words in front, right?

GM: Don't be stupid.
Qui-Gon: Ten foot laser pole...

And that's my cue that I've been up too long tonight to think seriously. I'll be back in the morning to see what Transpires.

I've got a few... odd circumstances that would come up in some scenarios I'm pondering. I'm only kind of certain on which skills would be used in each, So I'm Just Checking.

-Court Trial-
One of the party has been accused of a crime they didn't commit, and at the trial they spend time trying to convince the judge, the jury, and so on that they are innocent; doing so without lying.

I'm mostly certain of that one working on diplomacy for the most part. But with the "Detective" bard Archetype, I'm wondering if them going over the top enthusiastic or melodramatic in presenting their case might also allow they do use some bardic performances along-side the diplomacy checks.(of course, I have no idea if that would mean they are doing an oratory performance, or an acting performance. Probably oratory.)

...The next one is weirder.

-Subtle Manipulation-
The Party, or perhaps an antagonist, is trying to manipulate the actions of the other side without letting on their plan, without lying, and without directly telling them what to do (as that would let on their plan to some degree). So that they end up taking the actions desired. And they do all this without magical intervention. And they do so using rational arguments; which just happen to be used to guide the other side to actions that cause their downfall. Possibly by making them come to the wrong conclusion on a subject.

There are three Variations to that one.
-The other side doesn't know they are their enemy, and the manipulator tries to make the other side think that some third party are the enemy, without stating it as fact.
-the other side knows they are their enemy, and the manipulator tries to convince them that some third party (or maybe one of the other side's team) is on their side, without stating it as fact, in hopes of setting the two against each other and killing two birds with one stone.
-The Manipulator uses psychology to make the mark slowly change their behavior. Such as making a lawful character question over time whether law is the right path, pushing them towards chaos... or something else that would end in alignment shifting several dozen times. (Although if it's not to put them on the same side, it might be to put them in a position where they might be weak to "smite chaos" or something. Or maybe put them in a position where the manipulator might be well within "The Laws" of the city, to bring them in and throw them in jail unfairly. All to satisfy their ends)

I'm only kinda certain this uses diplomacy.

-Epic Moral Boosting Boasts!-
Any of you ever seen Gurren Lagann? Pretty much, the entire thing Seems to go "Step 1: Yell so loudly about how great we are that our entire team gets inspired to fight harder, Step 2: Watch as our team's Fighting spirit powers our machines, Step 3: drill a big hole in enemy."

...Can I just assume they are making an Oratory performance? I mean, It would be much easier to assume that everyone that does that and succeeds is some kind of bard. Or is this something else? But either way, I'd love an excuse to see boasting characters in a campaign.

Of course, if you can't decide just from that, here's one of their Boasts:


Even If we were to be enslaved in the galaxy's cycle of rebirth...

...the feelings that were left behind will open the door...

...even if the infinite universe were to go against us...

...our burning blood will cut through fate...

...We'll break through the heavens and dimensions...

...We'll show you our path through force!

Tengen! Toppa! Gurren! Lagann!

Who the Hell do you think we are?!

-Taunting and Provoking/Starting a fight between two guys-

I'm not sure which skills or talents or whatever make use of taunts. And I have no idea if using a bluff skill to make one guy think someone else said something that could be construed as a taunt would be possible. Or whatever... So yeah not much to say on that. So *Shrug* apart from bluff, I have no idea.


So... apart from that last one... Was I right with any of those?

Okay, I had some ideas knocking together at one point when I read about this one Bard Spell: "Modify Memory". Which could be used to create many a gambit, plot point or otherwise.

However, a couple of problems; at least if I want to go "RAW" (I'm assuming I'm using that right) or am playing under another Game Master.

1. It's a bard only Spell. So unless I want to burn up a lot of limited Wishes, (which I don't trust in the first place), I face the difficult choice of whether or not to go Bard.
2. It's a little impractical. Only 5 minutes at a time, and it requires 5 minutes to "visualize the target memory" before actually modifying the memory. Which means you're going to end up modifying less memory than needed to pull off the more... spectacular ideas I have in mind that require a full mind rewrite. Total-Recall Style.

So, any ideas? Alternatives? Better ways?

To give you a grasp of the kind of scope I'm going for... Imagine an attempt at brainwashing a poly-morphed Blue Dragon (LE) into thinking it's a Half-Elf Barbarian (CG).

Looking over this one spell, I think that it could make a fairly easy method of time travel to the future. But the problem is, the spell description says nothing about how to get out of it at the right time besides "dispel magic".

...And there is absolutely no way a contingency spell is going to last long enough for what I plan without bending the rules.

So, Assuming one wants to use Temporal Stasis to propel a Player character to a specific day about a thousand years in the future; How does one go about it?

Some things to consider:
-Should be hard to disrupt. Otherwise the bad guys could step in and keep you asleep past the time the big bad wakes up.
-Should be reliable... Yeah, I'm not sure I want to trust a wish spell; thank you very much.
-Should be Safe... Goes without saying.
-Preferably doesn't require NPCs to do the dispelling. Cause at that point, there are way too many excuses for something to go wrong.

So go ahead, let's see what you've got.

Well... Yeah, had the idea rolling around in my head for an outsider that is a kind of middle ground between the mechanical and dogmatic inevitables and the free-form and organic proteans (probably for an expanded setting i might try and brew up for my own amusment).

In theory, it sounds interesting; a being dedicated to their own evolution and uses both principles of law and chaos to do so. While not necessarily tied to good or evil. (While they could swing each way if they felt like it, or thought it way a good way to evolve. They're not Aeons for crying out loud.)

Thing is, I'm still trying to get the hang of the principles used in both the three bestiaries and in the Advanced Race Guide. So I'm not sure where to start besides the obvious "give them both Chaotic and Lawful subtypes". Any ideas?

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