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Black Dragon

Blackdragon's page

679 posts. 7 reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Lou, I have to say that I hope Nick understands that friends like you are few and far between. You have stepped into the Poo Storm twice now when you really didn't have to,nd the sheer effort that you put into creating a finished product of RC was staggering. It was only thanks to my overwhelming cynicisim that I didn't preorder RC. The sheer audacity of the project seemed almost too big to be viable. I was sad to see that I was right. Even so, if RC is ever put in print, I will be first in line to buy it.

Nick, even the best of us have fallen victim to our demons. As a game author you are one of my favorites (You and Pett)and if I saw your name on a modual, I would buy it without so much as a glance at the subject matter. I knew that your work would disturb me and my players and that is no easy task. Your apology is well received (though if a bit late in the game)and I look forward to your return to the gaming world. I still remain an avid fan.

DitheringFool wrote:

Agreed whole heartily but forgiving and wanting my product and/or money back are two different things. Maybe he could take the time to explain to us what's going on? I could bring a thumb drive and he could copy over the Dark Vistas #1: Razor Coast, Dark Vistas #2: The Ebon Shroud, Dark Horizons #1: Cold Black, and The Known Universe Gazetteer files he has? I'd be happy to bring my paypal receipt.

No ill will, I just want what I paid for or my money back.

The whole incident has kept me from preordering anything, even from Paizo. I had almost fell for the preorder of Razor Coast because I wanted to see if it could be converted to run as a sequel or continuation of Savage Tide, but I've been so glad that I decided to wait for it to be released.

I think Logue has the potential to have this turn into a public lynching. People are angry about what happened with Razor Coast, especially those who still haven't gotten refunds (Rightfully so!) And while Nick has designed some of the best games I've ever run, I think that his baggage might lead to an ugly scene.

memorax wrote:

In the end with the endless complaints about too many gods, too many high level npcs and too many cities. Wotc imo had to do something. They did goo too far yet I'm glad they did it. Want to play in the pre-Spellplague FR you still can no one is coming to take your books to orevent you from doing so. If they can pull off allowing all eras of play it will be a major thing that will imo bring in FR fans. Makes me wonder though if they have to hire more staff to do so.

I was not sad to see the Mystara go. Her replacement during the time of troubles annoyed the hell out of me. Now if they can get a better replacment sucj as the Simbul I would be happy.

The problem is that it went from too many gods, cities and npcs to a scorched toril that still had too many god, cities and the nps would come if the system was supported. FR was as fleshed out as you wanted it to be. Going back to 2E stuff there was so much information on FR. I have two books of flora and fauna for Sune's sake! And No, I understand that they're not coming to take my books away (They're hard copies and not PDF's hanging out in the Cloud)But in that aspect they also aren't making more. And given the literally thousands of dollars i've spent just on game suplements and novels for FR, I think I have a right to be p!$$3d when I'm told by the company how bad my favorite game world sucks and needs to be changed.

Could they do a setting playing in all eras? Maybe. But the Spell Plague was a bad idea that was badly implemented for a setting that they had no intention of supporting beyond the two or so core books that they dumped and then moved on. They simply could have left it alone and let the authors gradually move 4E terminology into the writing as opposed to forcing it in with a hammer.

On a postive note: The Simbul as the new Mystra would rock.

Last thing on 4E- Flying mountains (Not the Netheril one, but the ones that fly for no reason) Are stupid. They were stupid in Avatar, they were stupid in 4E and they'll still be stupid whe the next hack decides it'll look soooo cool!

Skullking wrote:
magnuskn wrote:

Ask a fan of Eilistrae what they thought of how their favorite goddess ( and her followers ) were handled.

I'm still annoyed that Talos was 'revealed' to be Gruumsh and Malar 'defected' to Silvanus!

Seriously? Where did this happen? Was it post SP or right in the middle of the changeover?

memorax wrote:

To be fair though the whole botched monstrosity that was the War of the Spider Queen did occur under 3.5 FR and not 4E. I'm not saying they handled it coprrectly under 4E as I too liked Elisatrae yet it's somethingh that was in the works imo lokk before 4E was to be released.

Yes, but the Lady Penitent Series was it's continuation and that was what was used to set up the whole changeover to 4E. And its ending was was one of the most jacked up pieces of crap writen, which is sad because I actually liked the writer and the writing style. But the content was horrid.

Scott Betts wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Yeah, yeah, we all know that you'd defend WotC even if they'd take a dump on your doorstep.

Cute. You'll note, of course, that I didn't actually defend WotC at all in that post. I just took exception to your attitude. I wonder why you conflate the two.

I'm not that majorly upset about 4E, after all it made Pathfinder become the number one RPG.

Rah rah.

But if you think being passionate about the utter annihilation of a fictional setting by incredibly poor decisions of the publisher, despite a pretty damn large public outcry well in advance of said changes, makes people dumb, then whatever. You are not someone I want to talk to.

I didn't say anyone was dumb. The page I linked to uses the word, though I think it's more for the sake of the catchiness of the play-on-words than anything else.

I do think that your reaction speaks to the overly-entitled, overly-invested position that the page I linked to warns of. You aren't just passionate about this. You are hyper-passionate. Tone the radicalized language back, and your position will appear much more reasonable.

By the way, I bolded the portions of the above post that involve subjective assumptions on your part, most of which I don't agree with.

Overly invested is having personally read over a hundred novels in this setting. This is more that my next fvie favorite authors combined. Because these books come from a shared setting, it isn't treated like each individual author is a seperate entity, but one piece of a much larger story. The fact that so many of their books ended up on the New York Times Best Sellers List means that up until the Spell Plague, they were doing something right with the books. Honestly they could fix it like every comic book continuity problem that Marvel & DC comics tends to have. They just wipe it away with a weak story and drive on like it didn't happen. They wiped out something like five years of Spiderman in just two issues of weak story. My wife was screaming about it for a month.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I honestly think my biggest problem with 4E was what they did with Forgotten Realms. There were just so many bad decisions in the last half dozen books attached to the change over. Killing Mystra, Mask and Eilistraee for starters. Here's a simple guideline any time you are in the middle of a story and you say Cut! Now lets jump X numebers of years into the future (This includes Battlestar Galactica) it's a bad idea. But to jump a full hundred years into the future? Awful!

What truely confused me about 4E was the whole 'Points of Light' we're not going to have a setting for the core, and then they put out a general world set of novels. What? Are the books now cannon or aren't they?

Personally I'm amazed that Ed Greenwood hasn't shown up at WoTC with a bottle of Jack Daniels and a flamethrower. IF I had built the world I'd be rabid over what they did to it.

It's been a while since I posted here, about three and a half years I think. But now that 4E is dead, has anyone heard what's going to happen to Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance or any of the other settings? Up until the Spell Plague and the Destruction of Forgotten Realms, I read every FR novel that came out, but the changes made to the setting and the mass kill off of so many established characters made me walk away from the book series (For which I was thankful for the Pathfinder fiction line). I have noticed that since the 4E roll out, the number of novels being put out has declined, and i'm not seeing alot of stuff from established D&D authors (Except Salvator, but I'm not even going to touch the whole good Drow/evil Drow catastrophy that played out during the crossover to 4E).

So I guess what I'm asking is if anyone's heard anything?

I'm done. WIth this post, I'm deleating all of my bookmarks to these boards. Sebastian, you've won. You have managed to drive another away with your venom. Go and celebrate with that person in your mirror. He's your biggest fan.

Pete Apple wrote:
Sebastian wrote:

Edit2: And apologies to Blackdragon for this post. I hate discussing other posters like...

I don't think you need to worry. He came in yesterday, spammed 10 posts in less then an hour into this thread (See: BlackDragon Posts ) and then must have gotten distracted by the next shiny object. :-) I just ignored the posts for the most part. There is no reason to argue, nothing I say will sway him and I don't enjoy bickering as much as you do. :-)

Spammed 10 post? Sorry, I don't have all day to sit in front of a computer keeping up with all this crap. I have a business to run. I respond to what ever post I have time to read in the morning. Single me out like this again and I'll take it to a mod.

evilvolus wrote:

Seriously, between you and Sebastian, I see one person making sarcastic exagerations of the situation to point out the ridiculousness of the whole thing, and I see one person making short-sighted comments and insults. I'm not saying either of you is helping, but at least Sebastian's funny.

And you think sitting on the outside taking shots and repeating the mantra that it's only a game, when that's what keeps pissing us off is helpful? You're not nearly as contructive as you think you are.

doppelganger wrote:

They didn't cancel Dungeon or Dragon, they just reclaimed the license from Paizo for their own use. Both Dungeon and Dragon are alive and (now) well online at WotC's website.

The digital version of the "Magazines is a pale poorly formed replacement for the product that paizo was producing.

doppelganger wrote:
Where does Wizards say that older customers were fools for buying previous editions of D&D?

Did you listen to the video that they presented at Gencon? They tell you that the old system was flawed crap that was no fun to play (crap is my word).

Blackdragon wrote:

doppelganger wrote:
Where does Wizards claim that the new books are poorly playtested, cheaply printed, or overpriced? How many D&D accessories from prior to 3.x can be used with 3.x? Did that 'force' people into 3.x?

No, the cheep printing, poor play testing and over priced thing is my statement.

doppelganger wrote:
To paraphrase Abe Lincoln, calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one.

And calling a spade a spade doesn't change the fact that it's still a f*$king shovel.

Set wrote:
The Red Death wrote:
I really find it dismissive at least, insulting at worse, when people keep repeating the "it's just a game" mantra. That's the case for you? Great! But don't talk to me about what's important and not important in my life. This hobby is important in my life... because of what blackdragon said, almost exactly.

In one respect, they're right. It is 'just a game.' And the Bible (Koran, Torah, Bhagavad-Gita, whatever) is 'just a book,' a book full of fantastic images and stories that people consider important to their lives, schedule their time around and that has helped them connect with other people who share similar interests / beliefs. Some dude who restores antique cars, or collects historical books, or plays an online game could be equally wrapped up in their 'passion.'

Contrary to the jaded emo crowd, it's not actually unhealthy or 'un-cool' to *LIKE SOMETHING.* The world is not as dreary and depressing as the 'everything sucks, be somber' crowd maintains, and if a person likes something enough to get passionate about it, it's not a sign of mental instability, it's a sign of a person *not* being clinically depressed or soul-crushingly cynical.

Soccer is 'just a game.' One whose fans will violently pummel the crap out of each other. We're nowhere near that level of passion about our 'just a game,' and, a few bad apples aside, who insist on calling one faction or the other violent extremists or irrational or fanatics or fascists or sock-puppets or apologists or 'fanbois' or 'haters' or whatever, we're pretty even-keeled people.

Is it possible to take the game 'too seriously?' Probably. But, bad Tom Hanks movies aside, we aren't running around in the sewers stabbing people because we think they're 'monsters.' We aren't running around in the streets flipping over cars and setting them on fire when 'our team' loses, and comparing us to people who *do* flip out and take stuff like that a bit too seriously is just attacking fellow gamers, which is kinda lame, since...

Well said.

Sebastian wrote:
Blackdragon wrote:
But the truth is, it isn't just a game. All of my close friends are gamers. I met my wife playing D&D. My sister and brother-in-law are both gamers, and my niece and nephew are learning how to play. The game that we play is an integral part of the social aspect of our lives. It has kept us close and in contact for decades. It is as much a part of my life as my family, my job or my faith.
Oh, I see, if you view the game as some sort of tribal value that's integral to your identity, that's totally different. Zealotry from such groups is entirely acceptable and appropriate. One thought: don't be afraid to resort to violence to defend your values. Clearly those who do not appreciate the game in the exact same manner as you are heretics and should be opposed with any and all means possible.

Is this a shot at me, or are you just stating your own values?

Patrick Curtin wrote:
Must know if there will be a Sigil analog on the Neutral Plane. Or will this cleave too close to WotC's IP?

Planescape to me was always one of the lamer concepts developed for D&D. I've always thought that planular travel and the exhistance of the ohter planes should be handled like should be handled differently. I've used the Great Wheel, but not as the reality of the cosmology, but as a mortal drawn concept so that mortals can wrap their tiny little minds around the realms. (And don't get me started on the whole crystal spheres thing, that was dumb to the millionth power.)

WHat I use is a little Star Trekish (Next Gen) OF the Idea of infinite dimension and infinite worlds. In my HBW I have two seperate worlds that the PCs travel back and forth to. Each one is on it's own plane of existance, Each one has it's own set of deities (Though deities from either world are worshiped it both.) I spare you a description of my cosmology it's very complicated, with deities being actually a lower creature and another group of creatures from outside of creation being the ones that really run the show. (IT's this tweek that allows me to run very high level games.)

Sebastian wrote:
Thank god someone finally took this thread off the path of good natured ribbing and healthy community spirit and dragged it back into the neverending pile of s&!% that is the edition wars. That's just what was needed! Pat yourselves on the backs, you guys rule.

Oh Sebastian, Is your bridal too tight?

Pat Payne wrote:
Pete Apple wrote:
It's.. a game.
Everyone, just keep repeating this...if it makes you feel any better, you can append ", I should really just relax" to it. Pete Apple speaks truth.

But the truth is, it isn't just a game. All of my close friends are gamers. I met my wife playing D&D. My sister and brother-in-law are both gamers, and my niece and nephew are learning how to play. The game that we play is an integral part of the social aspect of our lives. It has kept us close and in contact for decades. It is as much a part of my life as my family, my job or my faith.

doppelganger wrote:
highsidednb wrote:

I'll keep on harping on 4e because i don't like the fact that the commercial power of hasbro/wotc is trying to force what is IMHO not D&D onto the gaming world.
How much force would you say they are using?

Well, let's see... THey cancel Dungeon & Dragon, Hold off releasing the rules and the GSL of almost a year leaving most of thier 3PP's hanging, they turn the GSL into a noose, and then they spend their entire marketing budget tell their customers (I.E. us) that the stuff they've been selling us sucks and we were fools for buying it and now the only way our game will every be good agin is to buy all of our new, poorly playtested, cheaply printed overpriced new books, that are in no way compatiable with that old crap you spent a fortune buying. I call that force. Especially when you are the 800lb gorilla.

Pete Apple wrote:
vance wrote:
Pete Apple wrote:
There, that's better. Old, you say? All in the Attitude, Sonny. All in the Attitude.

"It's not the age... it's the mileage"

Doesn't help that my oldest girl just had her first job interview today. Ouch!

1-up! First grandson due 8/25 from my oldest daughter. I'm already starting to shop for appropriate nerd baby clothes. (anyone have good links? more threadjacking!!)

Check this one. atid=12

Sorry I don't know how to link.

Nameless wrote:
vance wrote:
Sign of aging. the classic rock station in Colorado Springs decided to declare Nirvana as 'classic'. They pushed Rush into the 'oldies'... I wanted to hurt someone.

See, I think bands should be officially done before they can be classified as Oldies. If Rush is still touring (which they are), they shouldn't be Oldies yet!

The Rolling Stones are still touring. If they're not oldies, I don't know what is. I don't think touring can be the benchmark.

vance wrote:
Billzabub wrote:
Oh, to clarify, it has been an ongoing debate about best rock trio, so Maiden is not an option. And as far as I'm concerned, Genesis and Peter, Paul & Mary are our as well.

Sign of aging. the classic rock station in Colorado Springs decided to declare Nirvana as 'classic'. They pushed Rush into the 'oldies'... I wanted to hurt someone.

I heard Motley Crue on the oldies station the other day and wanted to scream.

drunken_nomad wrote:
Heathansson wrote:

My analysis:

First off, I'm ernestly staying out of the whole 4e section, pretty much because I agree with Aubrey here, and argle bargling on and on about it doesn't have an angle.
I think there's fear still, on both sides.
I think the whole character of the GSL was motivated by fear.
I think the whole Edition Wars is motivated by fear of loss on both sides.
"Oh no! We lost Paizo!"
"Oh no! We lost The Mainstream Juggernaut!"
"Oh no! WOW IS the Mainstream Juggernaut!"
Fear, plain and simple.

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering...

I'm fine with suffering, as long as I'm the one causing it.

crosswiredmind wrote:
Russ Taylor wrote:
I happen to agree. If your answer to a missing 4E rule is "you can make one up", you aren't saying anything to defend the edition's lack of the rule. We're all aware we can make stuff up here :)
Then why is the gap a problem if it is easily remedied with a simple fix? People have been doing that since OD&D.

And if that is the solution of 4E why wasn't that simply applied to 3.5 and called done?

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:

So why do we still see arguments on the threads? I just don't understand it. Didn't the horse bolt ages ago?

(Try and keep this nice if you can.)

Personally I'm still pissed about FR. The simple reality is that the only times things change is when people are vocal in their opposition. I've written a letter directly to WotC with my oppinion and I have recieved my nice little form letter. I'm vocal because if I am not, I feel like my silence is consent for what Wizards is doing. Especially when you have the 4E fanboys trying to get Paizo to go 4E. I am hostile and vocal because I see myself as a good customer being thrown under the bus by WotC for being out of their NEW target demographic.

(That's about as nice as I can get on this subject.)

crosswiredmind wrote:

I can't speak for everyone but I do not post out of fear. I post because I have chosen to play 4e and would love to actually talk about it.

The reason I defend 4e is simple - I have little tolerance for the active spread of disinformation that is far too often the subject of many posts in this section of Paizo's boards.

And by disinformation, you mean anyone who has looked at 4E and doesn't see it exactly like you do.

Let's be real about the original TSR barbarian for a second. It wasn't just about race. It was about recognition. The barbarian was a big muscular white guy because Conan was a big muscular white guy. I can't count the numer of times I've seen some variation of this image, even from non-caucasion artists.

As far as the scantily clad women? I feel this is cultural with Judeo Christian society. It is an ingrained fear and loathing of human sexuality and the beauty of the nude of partially clothed human form. As an artist I tend to enjoy drawing women more than men A) because Im a hetrosexual Male, And B) because the line and form of a womans body is softer (Especially when doing fantasy art.) I've worked hard to build a game world that doesn't reflect Juedo Christian norms as the default when there isn't a religious equivalent in my world. (A major pet peeve of mine is the use of crosses in fantasy art. Reaper is notorious for this in their minis.)

Shad0wdrag0n wrote:

For spellcasters I think the number of spells spellcasters get (especially wizards and sorcerers) should be reduced, and a lot of spells should either be reduced in power or removed completely. I'm sick of wizards being able to use spells to do things fighters and rogues can do, and do them 100x better than fighters and rogues can (who needs a skill to pick locks when the wizard can just cast a spell?). Or, better yet, make a completely new magic system that makes major spellcasters more balanced with non-spellcasters. The magic system from Monte Cook's D20 World of Darkness would be very interesting.

Then that's exactly what YOU need to do for YOUR game. Not Pathfinder doing it for the whole system. SUre a wizard can pick a lock with a spell better than a long as they have it memorized enough times to do it every time the party needs it.

Shad0wdrag0n wrote:
I haven't seen how Pathfinder deals with multiclassing but if it still exists in Pathfinder it should be removed. multiclassing is way more trouble than it's worth.

Are you talking as a player or a DM?

Shad0wdrag0n wrote:
It might also be worth looking at games like True 20 and Mutants & Masterminds to see if there's anything they have that can be adapted for use in Pathfinder. If paizo took all the best parts of pathfinder, 4E, M&M/True 20, and some other D20 variants and mixed in some new stuff of their own I think they'd be able to make the best version of D&D ever.

And then Patfinder can look like the gamesystems that didn't sell as well a 3.5 D&D. But on the bright side, PFRPG being 3.5 OGl means that you can combine all of this 3PP stuff into you home game...(Unless they all go 4E).

I've preordered, any word when we'll get to see a picture?

Gary Teter wrote:
Nick Davis wrote:
What you are looking for is a blog. Say it with me: "Blog".

I support this idea. Razz, you come by here once a week and make a handful of posts which are clearly designed to piss people off. Then you disappear for another week. Please knock it off.

If you want to actually engage in conversation here, go ahead. Support your positions with cogent, non-inflammatory discussion. But you're not doing that.

Please stop polluting our messageboards. Either take part in the conversation, or don't let the door hit you on the way out.

(I remain unchanged in my desire that these messageboards be the best place anywhere on the internet to discuss 4th edition. Positive or negative.)

I'm sorry Gary, but I think Razz is fine. The simple fact is that I think Razz has gotten more hostile due to the sheer number of 4E fans that kind of follow him around as he posts saying "Shut up Idiot!" every time he tries to make a point. WHile I agree Razz gets a little vague in his ideas, not everone can argue in a calm articulat manor. Believe me, it took me weeks after hearing about 4E and the changes to FR to open my mouth on the subject and not sound like I had touretts.

DoppleGangster wrote:
MarkusTay wrote:

Try the WotC boards, and more specifically, the FR boards.

They are about 90% haters over there. In fact, the largest group of anti-WotC hangs out right on there own boards.

Its a wonder I haven't been banned there yet. <evil grin>

I have been IP banned there...

*High five* Good job!

Laithoron wrote:

And I do agree that the PfRPG Evoker trumps the Complete Arcane Warmage. I mostly just use the term "warmage" now as an idea of the archetype I'm speaking of. :)

/me renames reality.sys and presses the reset button

I like that. I do that alot myself: Name's cool, but what it represents suck, keep name, toss thing, put name on new thing new thing has cool name. Win-Win.

KaeYoss wrote:

I think Razz is really pissed off at 4e and wizards (at times, I wasn't far from that myself)

At times? Dude, who are you kidding? You seem as angry as I am and I'm a seething Blackhole of hatered for 4E. The first step is embracing who you are. Come to the Dakside, we have cookies.

yoda8myhead wrote:
joela wrote:
Razz wrote:

I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.

Hmmm. I play 3.x, Pathfinder RPG (Alpha), and 4E. Could I participate in such a forum?
Only if that participation were limited to hatred of 4e. If you post anything that could be misconstrued as positive about the system, this would be grounds for banning. And banning is an at-will power, so it can be done as often as necessary.

As long as you don't make banning some lame once per encounter power.

Ultradan wrote:

I found 'Cabin Fever' to be one of the worst movies I ever seen. Everything about it screams CHEAP!!!

I was very disapointed in 'Dreamcatcher' which started out pretty creepy (with all the forest animals walking in the same direction), but ended in total crappness.


That's the problem with most Stephen King books turned into movies (With a few exceptions.)

How about "Dead and Breakfast"? Nothing beats singing zombies.

The trick to making a good Robotech movie LA is that they have to remember that the big robots are not the main characters. I loved the series as a kid and even now (Bought the full box set) because of the human drama...Though I got to the point that uf U heard Minmei sing that F*&ing song one more time, I'd scream! It's not a good Idea to watch 36 episodes back to back.

Dorje Sylas wrote:

Oh, and there had better be no opening text explanation. That is guarantied Sci-Fi movie death.

No, but if they did a voice over like the begining of Serenity, that would work. That whole sequence has to be one of the best catching you up on the story opening I've seen.

But also following this out, I'm sick of seeing surface elves played out as a "Goodly Race". Goodly how? They are imperious, self centered, racist egotists. Their cluture usually feels like Rome during the decline. "Our culture is so superior to yours!" as their society crumbles and their people go into hidding. Yuck!

I personally don't mind the idea of non evil drow. Not shining lawful good, just not all of them have to be spider worshiping sadists.

In my FR campaign I have a sect of Vhaeraun followers who have returned to the surface, and have built a society where males and females are equal. They Will still kill you at the drop of a hat, but now when they get done, they can go home to their loving family.

Snorter wrote:

I went on the Internet, looking for Bella Sara players.

I found lots of sites offering Pony Girls, but my browser did not want to open some of them. When I got in, none of them seemed to like playing cards; they all wanted to run round in the woods with no clothes on, pulling little carts.

I am confused.

Check out this game called "Porn Star or My Little Pony"

(NSFW warning! Though no nudity.)

(Sorry, I don't know how to link.)

Sebastian wrote:
Mha ha ha! Fixed it.

So Sebastian... Since you have the game, how about a review? I've been thinking about getting it for my niece but I was affraid she was a little to old for it... But now that you're playing it...;)

Betrayal At the House on the Hill. It a board game with some RPGelements, that by the end one of the players turns traitor and then tries to kill everyone else. Great Fun!

I think this is the hardest I've ever laughed at a post on these boards. Sebastian, I would have loved to see the look on your face when you opened that! LOL!

Gavgoyle wrote:

Me too. I about gagged the first time I vaccuumed with our and pulled up all the pet hair and gruge that our old vaccuum wasn't getting. I sing our Dyson's sucktastic (in a good way) glory.

EDIT: and to be on topic, I feel like Paizo ferments customer loyalty like good Scotch. May not be to everyone's taste, but those of us who like it, love it!

This has to be the first time I've seen the word 'Ferments' in a compliment.

Pete Apple wrote:

Now, if you're not already sitting down, you probably should. I haven't read any FR novels. Ever. Not a one. In 27 years of playing DnD.

I just started playing in a FR campaign just recently. I was thinking of picking up a book or 6 from the king county library just to read over the holidays. Then I saw the list... oh my..

So! What should I read first? What author is worth reading? What should I avoid? Looking for opinions and/or pointers to reviews.


My suggestion would depend on what you like in a book?

My personal favorites are pretty much anything by Elaine Cunninham, or Paul Kemp.

Ed Greenwood's work is good, but he's a bit of a perv, with and obsession of creepy old men hooked up with young hot women.

R.A. Salvatore has a very formulaic writing style, and avoid anything with his character Cadderly, trust me.

Andrew Betts wrote:
I personally would recommend "Blackstaff" by Steve Schend. Granted I'm biases since I'm taking a class with him right now. And I am definitely in minority when I say avoid the Salvatore stuff, I've only ever been able to complete two books by him and they were both Star Wars books. I just can't stand his writing (or Driz'zt), but I digress Steve's book is great and Blackstaff Tower can't be too terribly far behind.

That book was an abomination. The story told there shold have been given to one of the authors who helped flesh Blackstaff out, not some newbee writing thier first book.

Pookachan wrote:
Hate: Drizzt.... Salvatore should be beaten with his own books. :P

I think that Drizz't as a character has alot of potential, but I think Salvator is still too much in the mindset of TSR's oppressive guidelines that he was turned into a whinny vampire (You know the type that spend hours pissing and moaning about how much it sucks to be a vampire, Ugh!) In the last trilogy, I was hoping that Drizz't would end up with the moon elf chick he was working with (Can't remember her name off the top of my head) because his pseudo-relationship with Catibrie was tedious. And now that Salvator has finally gotten Drizz't and Cattibrie together, the world blows up, and the arch jumps 100yrs into the future so she's dead! *Blackdragon blinks...taking several deep breaths...* Sorry, It gets a little hard to stop once it gets rolling.

F. Wesley Schneider wrote:

There might be some drow stuff coming up in Pathfinder. No promises. But MAYBE.

So, what makes you love the drow. You know, aside from the creuly, dark sexiness, white hair, and pointy ears. Where do you think they've been done right? What drow stuff in the past has pissed you off? What's your favorite drow city? Overall, what turns you on (or could turn you on) about the drow?

(By the by, what do you think drow eat?)

I think that the drow have never been allowed to reach their full potential of evil. I would like to see more of a Melneibone society from Elric. A race that would play symphonies with the screams of tortures slaves. A race of pure excess and sexual sadisim. Mongooses had a good take on Drow, but the game of bones was impractical in game play. This would be a place that I would like to see Nick Logue turned loose to rake up the darkest parts of his mind. I'm just not sure you would be able to print the outcome.

Elaine Cunningham wrote:

I wrote three novels, a novella, and three or four short stories about a Forgotten Realms drow. Liriel was a monster and she knew it, but she was sidetracked from conventional drow behavior by her fun-loving nature and her strong sense of curiosity. Becoming a "good drow" was never on her agenda; she adopted new approaches not so much because she believed they were right, but because her human companion believed them to be right. As time went on she got in the habit of struggling against her natural impulses, but she never lost sight of what she was.

I'm pretty fond of Liriel, but I wouldn't want to see a similar approach taken with Golarian drow. One good drow (Drizzt) was interesting because he was a societal anomaly, two (Liriel) was pushing it. It seems unlikely to me that a good drow will arise in Golarian simply because the comparison to Drizzt would be inevitable. This, on the whole, is a good thing.

It's my opinion that Golarian's drow should remain monsters: powerful, mysterious, conniving, devious, and more than a little sadistic. No good drow gods, no secret society of good-aligned drow, no ebony-skinned maidens dancing neckid under the wistful, watching stars. I'd like to see a culture that's distinctly different from Menzoberrazan. I'd definitely like to see a history that adds layers of nuance to the elf/drow animosity, and perhaps explores why drow decided to go underground rather than escape to another plane.

Sorry for a small side track. I'm glad to see you're going to part of Pathfinder. I love your work. That said, I still have to tell you, I'm still mad you killed Fyodor. :p

Luna eladrin wrote:
We have been playing since 1987 (1st edition) and I have not noticed a decline of quality among players.

I think that this has to do with an over all decline in the value of imagination in out society. Our society is on visual overload, where every cell phone has internet, and MP3 player and streaming video. Children today aren't allowed to be borded long enough to exercise their imaginations. It's really sad.

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