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Pathfinder Society Member. 267 posts. No reviews. 5 lists. No wishlists. 3 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Silver Crusade

Ascalaphus: Yeah, and the biggest problem is: where do you draw the line?
If the characters finish the scenario in one day and say they spend a whole day mapping out the dungeon - can I really argue they failed their objective because the players did not do the same thing?
These sentences just seem so...WRONG to me:


Doing so requires the PCs accomplish at least three of the following goals, many of which depend on the players’ actions, not those of the PCs.


First, the PCs should provide a map [...], which they fulfill so long as at least one player draws a representative map of the site.

(Emphasis mine)

Same thing goes for the confirmation, though - if a player states that his character notes certain things and can be more precise than "Oh, you know...everything" and in the end of the adventure I tell him "Aha, but your character does not get respect for that, because the power that controls him did not do it!" the "Gotcha!" sets in.
I guess "Learn to distinguish between player and character" only counts when you don't want to screw your players.

Or maybe it's just poorly worded.

Another (minor) thing:
The barbarians have a dex modifier of -1, so their AC should be 13 (9 touch, 14 flat footed). But we are expected to not fix those bugs and run as written, right?

Silver Crusade

I feel like this last sentence is ambiguously worded. To me it read more like "if the player drew a map and his character wants to make a more pretty version, he may roll". 1 PP for a player-created map, 2 PP if they make the (additional) roll.
By that logic I (as a player) would have to insist in every scenario hereafter that no, it's not enough that I *say* my character copies the mission-relevant letter, I really have to write it down, thank you very much...after all, you never know, some scenarios require the player to do the menial tasks, not the characters.

Also, I just had an epiphany why you couldn't just fly up there:

Who says that you are reaching the same spires by flying there?
And if so: Who says that if the spires are sorted "A-B-C-D" on sealevel they are sorted the same way on the top? I mean, once you get into Non-Euclidian geometry everything is possible...maybe the most northern pillar on sealevel is in the middle once you reach the top, even though the Spires seemingly stood still?

Silver Crusade

The Stolen Heir gives some opportunities for great roleplay. It has, however, some really tough decisions, and a group not being able to agree on anything (or containing two opposing hardliners) might not find it fun.

Major Spoiler for The Stolen Heir


There are two tough decisions in the scenario:
Do we let the kidnappers go (who, while not really having GOOD intentions, were deceived by the Big Bad)?
And even more important:
Do we hand in the kidnapped person to her kidnappers (who will do her no harm) and ensure financial aid for the Pathfinder Society's crusade in the Worldwound or do we free her, possibly losing out on military aid and thus ultimatly fail in our mission?

Our group had a huge (IC) fight about what was right. The paladin of all people was the hardliner arguing for turning her in, in a very "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" way.

Silver Crusade strict were you guys with the secondary success conditions?
I think it's unreasonable to tell them "Well, you SAID you were mapping it...and you had 2 days left when you finished the adventure...but you didn't actually DRAW the map, so no PP for you!"
The characters should earn the PP, not the players.
Same thing goes for the "I document everything and hand it to the VC!" - although in this case I'd ask them what exactly they documented.
Or is this too far from "as written" already?

Also: How big are the gloomspires really? English is not my native language, so while I usually understand everything I get into trouble with things that are designed not to make any sense - in this case the dimension of the spires.
Did I read this correctly: The spires are rectengular and (besides steps leading up to the top) relatively undecorated at the sides. They measure 120 ft * 120 ft at the bottom, but tend to be bigger on top. They do not get wider on top, they just go straight up and SOMEHOW are up to 180 ft * 180 ft on top.
If this is the case the first map contains almost all of the gloomspire in question (it's about 150 ft * 100 ft), doesn't it?

Silver Crusade

Spoiler: weird. As Flutter said, one Ghoul is behind the rubble and always alone. The Ghast waits in another room, and while accompanied by Ghouls and Festrogs should not attack you unless you piss him off or attack him.
It's explicitly stated that he waits until the party removed the rubble, hoping they become fatigued in the progress before he talks to them.
Though knowing pathfinders, this behaviour will probably result in a fireball to the face in most groups.

Silver Crusade

I too read up on dragons and figured out that back in D&D times, dragons that hatched were not able to fly. It took them a day to do it.

I obviously underestimated dragons in assuming they were helpless the first few days. Even a one week old dragon can seriously f@+% up a wolf. Four of them can destroy a level one party.

I still doubt he'd be able to overpower a bunch of bandits, but I guess he could drive them away - hell, if I woke up by a flying cat breathing acid into my face I'd run away, too.

Silver Crusade

...HOW? HOW did this dragon manage to free him from the bandits? How did it manage to enslave a bunch of kobolds when it was merely a day old? Though this might be attributed to kobolds being stupid little buggers...

Even if (and that's a big if) we consider a newly hatched dragon to immediatly be a Wyrmling it still is a really not that much of a threat to any slightly competent player character. 28 hp are not really much, the damage it deals is laughable (1d3 with his tiny paws, 1d4 with his littly mouth and frightning 2d6 with his acid breath) - okay, his armor class is 10 + 3 (natural) + 2 (tiny) + 3 (dex) = 18 and that's not too shabby at low level, but come on - if these bandits manage to overpower the barbarian they surely can manage his little buddy (which is about the size of a cat) there, right? Or was the party level really THAT low?

I mean, I got a chuckle out of the story because that's pretty much exactly what our ranger would do, but that dragon seems really powerful for a newborn...

(AND: Thank you. I finally had a good reason to read up on dragons!)

Silver Crusade

I remember reading a manga (X 1999 or just X) where two factions kept fighting each other. Before duking out the damage though the good guys always set up an area (Bannkreis in German...banishing circle would be the direct translation, though it's not perfect) the combatants could not leave. This circle (though the form varied depending on who cast it - a sphere, a cube, a tetraeder...) entrapped the combatants, but here's the thing - nobody except them was inside. So if they fought in the middle of the city they made one of these things (let's say a few houseblocks in size) and shifted everyone inside to a parallel dimension. They could only leave the area if the initial caster chose to drop the spell or he got killed - though in that case all damage done to their surroundings would be applied to the real world as well.

(I'm a bit hazy on some of the rules, but the rules were something like this).

So that could be a thing in your world: angels chosing to shift their battles with demons to alternate dimensions (kinda). The real world could still be affected on occasion, but not all the time.

Alternative: The evil guys want to keep it a secret because while they are strong, they would get into real trouble if humanity woke up from their slumber and chose to battle them head-on. They would lose.
The good guys want to keep it a secret because if humanity chose to battle the evil head-on, lots and lots of people would die.

Or maybe both sides are unsure who would win the fight and they are not willing to take any chances. Until (INSERT PLOT DEVICE HERE) and every major NPC murmurs "Someone has changed the rules/There is a darkness coming/That's impossible, they would not risk such a thing! Unless.../The seal has been broken!".

Silver Crusade

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HP average: If a character levels up he may choose betwen rolling and taking the average number of HP (rounded up). So a character with a d8 hit die may choose between picking 5 hp or rolling a d8 - though a 1 may be rerolled. So basically he has the choise between 5 or 2-8 hp.
Our sorcerer always rolls, the rest usually picks the average.

Silver Crusade

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Hama: German here. I pronounce it the same way you do.

Limeylongears, where do you hail from? I ask because if I took the "ue" in Duergar as a "ü" (because whenever it's impossible to use ä/ö/ü in German it gets substituted with a ae/oe/ue) I get a whole lot closer to the "Jäger"-sound (would sound like...I guess dyrger? deerger? You don't really have the ü sound in any English word...the French have it in words like rue)

Silver Crusade

Enlarge can also be helpful if you need to break something (+4 bonus if you are large), to block entrances, to perform combat maneuvers (+3 bonus) and so on. I can see why you would dislike it if you're bothered about being hit.

My group completly ignored Summon Monster I-III because it never saw the summoned monster as anything but space wasters. Their attitude might change a bit now - the druid summoned a grizzly bear with Summon Nature's Ally IV and it helped them a great deal.

Silver Crusade

You could apply the lich template to Auren Vrood. That would make him pretty deadly, so you might want to drop his Circle of Death (which he shouldn't have in the first place because his prestige class got changed - his CL should be one lower than it is).

You could use the seasage effigy, the ghost's essence and the heart to perform a ritual summoning something from beyond the stars, though this might be a too jarring change in tone for your group (Ghosts - Golems - Werewolves and in the end...a Cthulhu-like monster. What?).

You could make it a race against time - Auren Vrood is in the middle of a ritual which would make him a very powerful lich and they have to do...something, maybe kill stop it. If they fail they can theoretically still fight him as a lich, I guess...

The bard...I have no idea. Countersong comes to mind as an often forgotten weapon in his arsenal, but other than idea.

Silver Crusade



Rorschach and Nite Owl vs. Ozymandias

Shadowrun: In one of the very first novels it takes a whole gang to gun down a dragon. Because, y'know, it's a friggin' dragon. And I think it was the CEO of some company...
Though this WAS in a Shadowrun novel, so the "good guys" part is debatable.

And now stuff after 1990 because I feel like it.
Warcraft III:
Thrall and Grom Hellscream vs. Mannoroth

All the time. They usually get their asses handed to them and it gets resolved another way. Most notable:
Faith + Wesley vs. Angelus (though most of the time Faith does the fighting IIRC - for those who don't watch the series: Faith is a slayer (=superhuman strength/endurance), Angelus a vampire and Wesley...a normal human. Go figure.)
The whole gang vs. The Beast (not that it really helps them)

Buffy: All the time. Most notable is probably the season 5 finale.


In season 4 they channel all their powers into one person, so that does not count.
In season 5 they have to battle a god - though they mostly try to weaken her to make the fight winnable for the slayer.

Silver Crusade

Snorter wrote:

Which is a good thing for the game, for play balance, narrative style, and in-world verisimilitude (it explains why the spell/ability results aren't admissible in court, and ensures the PCs have to search for evidence, rather than line everyone against a wall and be scanned by the local paladin).

That would be an awesome dystopia, though. You could purchase "hide alignment" potions on the black market, would try your best to not think evil thoughts when outside...

Silver Crusade

First I will cast protection from evil onto her, granting her another save.
Second I will ask my wizard (or sorcerer) buddy to identify what foul magic has befallen her and ask them to cast dispel magic if my protection from evil did not break the spell.

If both things fail and my friend assures me that there is no spell on my mother, well, there are three options:

1) I am aware that my mother is evil. It might even be the reason why I became a paladin - to bring good into the world to balance out her evil. This may or may not imply that my mother was directing this evil towards me (by abusing me, for example) or towards others while being a loving mother towards me (everybody know this one person who is an a@&&$%+ to everybody except his/her friends, right? That, only as a mother).
This raises the question why I even bothered trying to break any spell, but hey.

2) My mother was evil all along, hiding it from me.
Ignoring the fact that her upbringing probably would not result in paladin I will try to redeem her and make a better person out of her.

3) My mother turned evil while I was away. I will try to find out what caused it (= follow the obvious questhook), resolve the cause and work with her to redeem her.

Silver Crusade

Ascalaphus wrote:

In this particular case (I assume you're referring to the same adventure as in the PFS GM forum), I think the paladin was rather on a dubious path. As in, morally hazardous.

In the more general case, if it looks necessary to step in as GM, I'd propose the following;

1) if players can't reach consensus, I suggest they take a vote.

2) if one choice would actually go so far as to risk a paladin falling or similar fate to a PC, I'd suggest that player gets a right to veto, based on the "don't be a jerk rule". He doesn't have to exercise his right, but it's entirely fair for a player to refuse to lose his character.

As a GM, you must be upfront with players of paladins and similarly precarious classes on whether their decision would constitute a fall risk.

I didn't consider the paladin falling a risk here. I'm one of those GMs who tend to be lenient with this - if the paladin kills the virginial sacrifice as a last resort to stopping Asmodeus from walking the earth, I won't let him fall, but expect him to roleplay the torment his conscience will give him. But that's really leaving the path of this topic.

I also don't think I ran into too many situationes in the society where a paladin could fall. Though no situation survives player contact, right?

I think something like Silbeg mentioned could work - "Be reminded that you are all pathfinders. To cooperate is one of the three foremost duties as a pathfinder and your training taught you that sometimes the mission is more important than your personal quarrels. As a pathfinder agent you are considered a valuable member, but everyone else in your group is, too, so a pathfinder only considering his own agenda will not be tolerated for too long."

Silver Crusade

Anonymous Visitor: If this weren't a PFS game, I'd have no problem with characters going at each others throats or turning the whole thing into an adventure of itself (seemingly budge, then acting behind the party members back) - however, this is a PFS game, so that is not an option.
The "bail from the group" thing is really not an option though - if you were really opposed to something you'd try to stop it, not just turning a blind eye. I see your point, though.

Thank you, rknop. I never really noticed that paragraph.
So that's a written statement of "If your character really, really does not want that to happen and he's alone with his, he will have to suck it up and deal with it." - that is really, really good to know. If a character repeatedly refuses to bow to the majority's choice, do you think it would be reasonable to threaten actions by the (ingame) Venture Captains? (Theoretically, of course. I do not think it would come to that from an OOC point of view, but you might never know)

EDIT: ...I cannot read. You did not cite the Guide but merely suggested to add a paragraph like this, right? Well...yeah, that might be a good idea...

Silver Crusade


I recently ran a scenario which ended with a moral dilemma. The choice was basically between "We can work together with these crooks and really help the Society or we do what's 'right'."
This ended in a seemingly unsolvable conflict between our paladin (who wanted to work with the crooks, arguing that the Society's work at the worldwound was more important than the wishes of a few people who wouldn't even really be harmed, just imprisoned with high comfort) and the ranger who refused to even budge a little.
Democracy was quickly abandoned because both character were convinced their way of doing it was the right one.
This went on for quite some time and when they left the room to argue out of earshot of the crooks (where the paladin tried to explain to the ranger that they could still go after them AFTER they had what they wanted - though it would take at least a few months ingame) I decided that the villain used this very moment to attack. The group was missing two party members, the discussion didn't really go his way and most important of all our time ran out, so I had to act.

Still - it did not feel too good to basically say "Time's up, roll initiative".
It occured to me to just say "Okay, your characters will not budge here. How about you to an OOC vote and if you lose your character will be convinced?", but that didn't sit right with me.

How do you solve seemingly unsolvable inner party conflicts?

Silver Crusade

*digging up the thread*

Did anyone run into serious inner party conflict here?
My group bashed their heads in after they captured the Galtans (their boss went when the witch threw a Slumber hex mid-negotiation) what to do with them. They agreed to let them go, but did neither want to leave them there nor let them go immediatly.
It only got worse in the end when the scenario came to a screeching halt - neither the paladin nor the ranger wanted to budge one inch from their belief.
The paladin wanted to accept the deal, arguing that while it sucked for Thalia, no harm would come to her and that they risked the lives of hundreds, if not thousands of people for the freedom of one little brat (these players tend to HATE everybody tagging along - except for the Frostfur captives, for some reason).
The ranger was a true Andoran and refused to let the corruption stand.
They left the laboratory to discuss it further, where the paladin told the ranger that yes, while it sucked now, they could still give the information to their superiors so that they could act after the money and troops were secured. Didn't help one bit.

After half an hour of arguing I had to bring things to an end, so I decided that Kori took the opportunity (two of her enemies left her house, one stood guard, so only three were left inside) to attack. It worked quite well, too - at least until the witch brought her down with an inflict moderate wounds. The paladin was really unhappy about the whole ordeal.

Bryton was missed by all of them as well. Though this might be a problem of my group - they tend to latch onto their primary mission, completly forgetting the greater goal of their assignment.

Silver Crusade

Wrote a lenghty post yesterday, wanted to post it, forum went down and all was lost.


I will re-write it over the day, but one question first: Can you tell us more about this potentially violent character? (Alignment, Class, Background, Player...)

Silver Crusade

Ah, the usual post-coital nerdtalk. We all know it, we all love it.

Regarding what character: Not a druid. Never a druid. Had two players now who loved the concept and grew more and more frustrated when they couldn't figure out how to play it. The one changed to ranger and loves it (high perception and high damage - she does not care for the rest) and the other one played a witch in PFS (and loved it) and wants to change to oracle in our campaign. So, never, ever a druid.

Wizard is also tricky - we all know how powerful a wizard in the right hands can be, but it can be overwhelming for a newbie. Plus, low-level wizards suck. I remember a PFS scenario (which lasted 5 hours) where my first spell was completly saved against, my second spell went off after the combat was over and my third spell...what are you talking about, what third spell? Somebody not used to that will become VERY frustrated.

But all that is completly useless if you do not talk to her about it. It's not pressuring if you ask her if she'd like to try it out. If you ask her over and over again - sure. But not every nerd likes the same stuff, and as long as we respect each others nerdy hobbies everything should be fine, right?
I for my part really made my girlfriend curious because I loved telling her everything that happened in the last session my group played when she asked me how my evening was.

One more thing: A friend's girlfriend wanted to try out a role playing game, the rest of the group wanted to try out Pathfinder, so I set up a quick one-evening one-shot (which was cheesy and illogical and pretty much a dungeon crawl with lots of undead). This is probably better than pushing her right into a campaign. ;)

Silver Crusade

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I was in a similar situation to you, though I had the added problem that the new player was my girlfriend. This led to me not being sure if I was favoring her, so I overcompensated a bit in the opposite direction. While this might not be that much of a problem, it could become one, in either direction. Make sure to occasionally ask your players whether you're too harsh with her (or on the opposite spectrum, softballing her).

Even though you want to start a new campaign you should keep in mind that your group has a long list of insiders and anecdotes they will quote over and over again. "That's awesome, just like when we threw the boar on the..." - "Ha! Yeah, that was great!"
Cue confused newbie.

Keep an eye out for the other players playing her character for her. Tips are alright, but when other players start telling her "Go here and cast this spell on me! No, trust me, that's the best you can do!" it might be going too far.

That said: Just ask her after the game what she thought and what might've bugged her and what she liked.

Silver Crusade

Estovion being identified as evil is not really a problem, I think. I'm not sure whether my party figured out he was evil, but I made it very clear to them that not every evil person they meet (especially in Ustalav!) may be just assumed to be a baby-eating monster. It's USTALAV, after all...
I threw some evil people at them every now and then just to keep them on their toes. Just people they meet. If you want to really throw them off make Silas evil as well - it doesn't take much alteration to change him from LN to LE.

Silver Crusade

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Also, they don't expect anybody going in there anytime soon. Remember, the PCs are fairly powerful - most people would have a hard entering the Schloss even without their...additions. It would normally take quite a while until a group powerful enough (and willing) to storm the premises. Even most PC groups would struggle pretty hard fighting the final enemies without the beast's help.

Silver Crusade

DM Under The Bridge wrote:

As players we have to believe what the GM is telling us is correct, of course there are always areas were players should feel motivated to correct the GM when something seems like a misunderstanding (a cleric channeling negative energy to harm the party and heal her undead minions, GM claiming that a particular enemy is immune to critical hits- especially if this was true in D&D...), but the scenario might always have given enemies specific abilities, that can make things tough.

Surely a negative channelling cleric, blasting their own party, wouldn't be allowed? That is pvp.

He means an enemy cleric who damages the party and heals his undead minions AT THE SAME TIME (which he may not do, it's one or the other). Just as an example for "Hey guys, today there was a ruling my GM did I'm unsure about, can someone who played the scenario have a quick look if it was okay?"

Silver Crusade

captain yesterday wrote:
Blackbot wrote:

("You hear metallic sounds and a whispered discussion in an language unknown to you, though it sounds quite rough and harsh." - (after the rest of the group shouts "WAKE US UP!) "Erm...I ask 'Hello? Is someone out there?'").

But that discussion should really take place in the TotB-GM-Thread.
did you have the Orcs say back, in guttural common "uh, No, go back to sleep, just looking for a lost chum-i mean sheep"

Nah. They threw javelins. Stapled some of the group to their sleeping bags as well. I ruled that it took at least a move action to get out of the sleeping bag leading to some hilarious improvisation - the sorcerer war forced to shoot his color spray straight upwards because an orc was about to split his face with an axe. Worked like a charm, the orc was out for the rest of the fight :)

Silver Crusade

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my group took 5 sessions to get through the Haunting and about twice as much to get through TotB. Although I our session length decreased a bit, I think that TotB is longer than the Haunting.

I added a segment during their travels to Lepidstadt where they are attacked by Orcish bandits because their route takes their fairly close to Belkzen. It created the classical "You are ambushed at night! You are still in your sleeping bags! Think quickly!" missing from the AP. Though it only worked as well as it did because our ranger is a bit stupid sometimes. ("You hear metallic sounds and a whispered discussion in an language unknown to you, though it sounds quite rough and harsh." - (after the rest of the group shouts "WAKE US UP!) "Erm...I ask 'Hello? Is someone out there?'").
But that discussion should really take place in the TotB-GM-Thread.

Silver Crusade

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It will when everyone chimes in, discussions break out and we stray away from the topic at hand - how can you know that it won't take long? ;)
Also, most people reading this thread also read the other threads.

Silver Crusade

Yes, but for me that was kinda the point of the fight.

Except for the Ranger nobodoy had any ranged weapons, so the fight begun with only the sorcerer and the ranger being able to deal damage and the group had to think fast to even the battlefield. They solved it by retreating deeper into the room to force the creature to land.

And they hit it with a grease. So the bow was gone from round 1. But even if it still had the bow, I'm sure they would've found a solution like using a table as cover.

When they returned to the city they ensured that everybody got a ranged weapon. It was a valuable learning experience ;)

Silver Crusade

GtPFSOP wrote:
All conditions gained during an adventure, except for permanent negative levels, ability drain that does not reduce an ability score to 0, and conditions that provide no mechanical effect, must be resolved before the end of the session; if these are not resolved the character should be reported as ‘dead.’ Permanent negative levels, ability drain, and non-mechanical conditions being carried over to the next session should be recorded under the Notes section of the Chronicle sheet. An unplayable character should be marked as dead when reporting the session. See additional rules under Dealing with Afflictions in Chapter 7.

I agree that it's not really spelled out that well, but in conjunction with James' quoted section it basically means "You have to resolve everything, though you can do so by waiting."

For example, my character contracted a disease. Adventure over --> I had to resolve it. I decided to sit it out, rolled all the days right after one another, took 4 points of ability damage, waited until it was gone, everything was peachy again.

EDIT: Just read something said in this thread: Ability Damage is not a condition.
It's damage. need to note it! Yay!

Silver Crusade

Just throwing this in for thought:

At some point during the campaign (I think it will be after they defeat Vrood who will have letter from AA) the letter will contain more than just the usual politeness.
Explosive Runes.
Just as a quick reminder that the world the PCs live in can be quite dangerous and that it's not smart to just grab everything a bad guy had on himself.

Silver Crusade

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The error message goes away once all player numbers are entered. If you want to report a table with less than 6 players you can delete a player slot.

Also: I think you have to decide which character gets the chronicle sheet when you GM the scenario and you just fill in that characters number (so if you want to apply the GM credit to your second character, fill in 123456-2 - well, obviously not 123456 but your real number, but you get the idea.

Silver Crusade

Personally I like most of the icons.
The Scarab Sages suffer from an unfortunate color scheme, The Exchange looks a bit uninspired, but still...Dark Archive is pretty cool and while Sovereign Court is not the most original of icons, neither were the Qadira, Taldor or Andoran icon. It serves it cause.

The Liberty's Edge icon on the other hand...hurts my eyes. MAYBE this only happens because of the colors, but...I like the motif. I don't like the image.

Silver Crusade

Do I read this right:
If I want to play "The Paths we choose" with my Taldan fighter he cannot participate in any other scenario until I play The Paths we choose?
Or if I play another scenario he won't play The Paths We Choose as a member of the Taldor faction, but rather as a member of the Sovereign Court (or whatever) faction?
(Maybe this is explained in the scenario itself, but I did not buy it yet...)

Silver Crusade

Page 12 talks about:


Cooperate: The Society places no moral obligations upon its members, so agents span all races, creeds, and motivations. At any given time, a Pathfinder lodge might house a fiend-summoning Chelaxian, a Silver Crusade paladin, an antiquities-obsessed Osirian necromancer, and a friendly Taldan raconteur. Pathfinder agents, no matter which of the eight factions they belong to, are expected to respect one another’s claims and stay out of each other’s affairs unless offering a helping hand.

We are down to seven factions. New players might get confused about that.

Silver Crusade

Hi there!

Recently we ran into the following situation:

The wizard wanted to cast Summon Monster. He uses his full-round action to do so.
Before he finishes his spell he takes damage from a bomb. No worries; he makes his concentration check and all is well.
However, the bomb has a secondary effect: He is now stunned because he failed his save.

What would happen in this case? I can see three different outcomes:
a) He made his save. While he will lose his next round the spell still goes off.
b) He has to make an additional save similar to how non-damaging spells work:

PRD wrote:
If the spell interferes with you or distracts you in some other way, the DC is the spell's saving throw DC + the level of the spell you're casting.

c) He is stunned and it is an unwritten rule that if you are not able to take any kind of action you lose the spell.

I would say c), but I am not really sure how to justify it rules-wise.
What do you guys think?

Addendum 1: What would happen with nauseated? Nauseated says that you can't cast or concentrate, so I'd say you lose the spell.
Addendum 2: This happened in a PFS game, so the less house-ruly it gets the better.

Silver Crusade

When I play Uori I usually only respond to characters which are in front of him. While a player is speaking I fixate on his mouth and respond only if he looks at me - if he turns away or covers his mouth in some way I ask him to repeat that.
But I guess that's not clear enough - both groups I ran The Confirmation for didn't get that he was deaf.
Not that it's THAT important, really...

Silver Crusade

Rule of Fear says the Sczarni rarely harm a person and prefer to teach them "lessons" - lessons like "If a deal seems too good to be true it probably is" or "If you buy a diamond from a fellow on a street you probably won't get your money's worth".

While this might only apply to Ustalav's sczarni, that's how I like to display them - people with no respect for the law who like to exploit the dupability of others, but usually not violent or mean-spirited or even evil. Which slaughtering a whole village would be.
Now, they MIGHT resort to such a thing if the village did overreact (hang a few sczarnis because of minor crimes), but I still think it's unlikely.

The Aspis on the other hand - I could see them do it, but not just because they want money out of them. But it's something they might do if the stakes are really high - maybe a farmer found a very powerful artifact and they don't want anyone to know so they let his whole family "disappear". Though things like this should be very, very rare.

Silver Crusade

BigNorseWolf wrote:
But most of their gear is half weight. Weapons, armor etc. Since pfs lets you handwave found loot, small characters actually have more carrying capacity than medium ones.

Of course. But you have other useful items which do not vary in weight, and they tend to add up. Torches, sunrods, Alchemist's fires, a grappling hook, a rope...

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Especially if you are small - and small characters are more likely do be affected by encumbrance anyways (tend to pick classes which don't need much STR because of the penalty, only have 3/4 the capacity of medium characters with the same strenght...)

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Hu. I completly missed that. Thanks, claudekennilol.

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Shifty wrote:
The Fox wrote:

I have heard other people say similar things. I will ask you what I ask them: how would one know that the paladin is using detect evil? It is a spell-like ability. It has no verbal, somatic, or material components, nor does it require a spell focus. It is activated mentally.
And yet their use triggers AOO's, so there must be a process involved that alerts people to the fact that something is going on. Its not a Su.

I always took it as the paladin having to focus on his target. Not really a component, but he has to concentrate on it and thus drops his defenses, allowing hits that normally wouldn't connect to actually have chance to do so (read: AoO). I also assumed the paladin had to "stare" at his target - and if the paladin is not one of the really obvious types his party could distract the person so nobody would notice.

Chris O'Reilly wrote:

What I see people forget the most is that creatures with evil intent detect as evil potentially leading to a lot of ineffective smites.

I did not forget this, I never knew this.

The spell does not note that this is the case, neither does the paladin's class feature.
The spell tells you about "Number of evil auras (creatures, objects, or spells) in the area and the power of the most potent evil aura present." - so as long as this creature isn't evil, a mere thought would not set off a Detect Evil.
It's not a mindreading spell.

Thus: It detects as evil -> Smite Works.
(Except maybe if they are dominated by an evil spell and the paladin just noted the presence of evil, but did not have the time double check the source.)

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There's just one problem.
They are never told that the second goal is important.
The closest I could find was
"Amauhak strongly advises the party to refrain from violence on Razmiri soil if it can be helped; Metella and Passad, in rare agreement,
And that part even made it worse since it motivated my party to go nonlethal in the last combat.
The latter of the VC only tells them:
"You must investigate and liberate the three dwarven envoys — if indeed that is where they are imprisoned — and then escort them to Mendev."
Every player will assume that it is important not to cause too much noise because of the imminent danger. But there is zero reason for them not to say "Look, you've lost. Give up. We don't want to hurt you, the society is not an enemy of yours.", thus revealing themselves as society.

This is one of the two core problems (not counting the meta "Your choices did not change that much") of the scenario.
1. The characters have no reason to search the island (they don't know about the gold there and have no reason to suspect it might be there - yes, a Knowledge(Nature) may reveal that drakes collect treasure, but this would be the direct opposite of the "We have to hurry!" just one encounter prior.
2. The characters have little to no reason to keep up their bluff after they found the prisoners. They were never told keeping their identities secret was important. Characters concerned for human life are punished for not following an order they were never given in the first place.

Silver Crusade

I guess so, but everyone else was doing it in this thread, so I chose to follow. ;)

Yes, they pretty much read the initial letter and chose to only remember the "Find the missing persons" part of it. Personally, antagonizing as they were I really considered just dropping this part and adding a really pissed of VC at the end of the scenario.

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So, I ran this a few days ago and a situation came up I wasn't sure how to handle...
The two merchants


First off: Two characters absolutely hated Passad and the dwarves. The ranger went so far as to shove the drake's corpse into Passad's face when he wanted to congratulate them. They saw them as useless NPCs and were annoyed that they wouldn't really help them, not accompany them to the inn and so on.
I made it clear to them that they had the same destination, but were not part of their rescue team, but that did not really change their opinion. (After the game 3/5 of the group told me they didn't really had a problem with them, but the two ladies of the group kinda burned all bridges with Passad so I ruled that he didn't even offer a collaboration and didn't hand out his potion - after all, when he wanted to he had a face full of dead drake). But that's just a side note.

Secondary Success Conditions


The difficult portion came when they fled the inn. See, the dwarf told them not to stir up unwanted combat - which they took as "Don't kill anybody". So they slumbered the guards in the yard, took the BBEG hostage and fled the country.

Now, the scenario says they have to prevent the Holy Ahendile from reporting to her superiors. They released her when they left the country. I ruled that she would be able to report the incident and thus the group missed the second prestige point (they failed big time in fooling the sisters).

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1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks a lot, Jeff. I really DID miss that.
That's a relief!

Part I
Part II
Part III
Part IV

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While I saw Mike's post, the example was picked poorly.
He confirmed that unrelated changes like "Taldor to Silver Crusade" were possible - but that these would be possible was a given because the Taldor faction kinda ceases to exist.
The other way round, "Silver Crusade to Sovereign Court" is what I am wondering about.

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Does everyone get a free faction change or just affected factions?

My wizard, for example, despises Cheliax, but would fit pretty good into the Dark Archive - so if I play him now as a Grand Lodge member [which I just chose because it came closest to what I had in mind], would he be forced to pay prestige points to switch to the Dark Archive?

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You can buy access for half the scribing costs.

I am aware that you still have to pay the scribing costs (if you are not a witch) on top of that.

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I know that now. Sorry, I did not make myself clear enough: FOR SOME TIME I was under the impression that this is how it should be handled - though I found out that I was wrong. ;)

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