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Pathfinder Society Member. 189 posts. No reviews. 5 lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Silver Crusade

So...he says everybody has to be from Absalom, even Samurais, Druids, Ninjas and Witches?

Silver Crusade

Thread 1 and Thread 2

Silver Crusade

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Ranger (because it's always her): I want to roll Perception!
Me: Okay, but...what for?
Ranger: I don't know. I just want to roll!
Me: Go ahead.
Ranger: 27! What do I see?
Me: Well, the room is well lit, but you see nothing special I did not already describe.
Ranger: But...I got a 27!
Me: *sigh*

This occurs about once or twice every session.

Silver Crusade


my group is heading straight for the Schloss and I found a couple of things that bugged me greatly. I hope you might help me out here.

1. How did the Promethean get from L2 up to L3? This thing is huge (literally, that's his size), so how can he possibly fit through a 5 feet wide staircase?

2. L2 is described as a prison. Fine. But how exactly did he hold him captive there? There are no prison bars mentioned anywhere. While the way down is blocked by the adamantine trap door, the way up seems open (well, it's too small, but if that was the only measure point 1 is an even bigger problem). I assume adding bars isn't too much of a problem, but still - it's irritating.

3. The tower is too small for the fight. If I put the Promethean on top of the tower the group will have trouble standing up there. The beast won't be able to fit at all. I mean sure, it should be cramped, but that's just ridiculous.

My solutions are as follows:
1. He just squeezed through and the staircase is pretty much busted. Including a Promethan-sized hole in the ceiling.
2. I thought about just ruling that the trap doors in both directions were adamantine before the one going upstairs was damaged/stolen, but this raises the question how the count manages to get upstairs without running into the promethean. As an alchemist he doesn't seem to have any ways of just flying up there, so I guess I will just add some bars there. They are extremly expensive, but hey - what isn't in this dungeon?
3. Doubling the size seems a little too much. I think making the diameter 50 feet instead of 30 should to the trick - the platform itself will be 40 feet in diameter.

What did you do? Any suggestions or critique on mine?

Silver Crusade

Typical. As soon as someone posts a conclusion to a thread there are popping up answers to the initial question which has long been answered...*grins*

Taku Ooka: I have to disagree with you. While a paladin may choose to focus on melee I do think he should have options for enemies he can't reach. Either he works out how to reach them (which may be impossible without the aid of a fly-spell or alike) or he will just be a second class supporter for that combat. Also no, the flying enemy uses a bow as his primary weapon.
Your other suggestions are cool (aging four years and all that), but it would not work because the adventure is a little time critical. Not overly so, but a bit. And if the ranger ran out of arrows (which she doesn't need to as I wrote in the post just before yours) it would be a pretty annoying thing to spend 2 days to get new ones.

Victor: If I told her "just assume infinite arrows" she would be pretty sad. For some reason that's one of the things she loves to do, crossing off arrows, trails, rolling for missed arrows etc. Who am I to rob her of her hobby to do this? ;)
And as the example states - it appears to be not so negligable after all since running out of arrows still is an option. Though again: Now that I know she has not 20, but 100 arrows (in varying forms) left that problem is pretty much gone.

Cyrad: You are the third or fourth person to point out how identifying works ;) And I will just say two little things I did not say already:
1. I assume this is not as much of an issue as I thought it would be. Just because it would bug ME as a PC not to know what kind of magic item I have in front of me doesn't have to mean it bugs THEM.
Still, I think they will buy some scrolls next time in town.
2. "at least a +13 spellcraft". How on earth do you want to reach +13 without taking a feat for that? 6 ranks + class skill = 9, so you assume every caster has an Int-Bonus of +4? Sorry, but no. A +9, maybe a +10 is more likely. Less for our cleric since he has only two ranks per level and spreads them a bit.

Silver Crusade

Greetings again!

In case you are still interested in this old thread I think it's only fair I tell you how it all played out.
First of all: nate lange, you are half right. While the average wealth of the group as awhole is indeed 16,000 GP per character (well, more or less), it's not really equally distributed. This might play into the problem.
So let's see what I did and how it played out!

  • Lack of arrows: It turned out I underestimated the ditziness (is that even a word?) of our ranger. While it is true she has only 20 arrows left she did neither count the 40 blunt arrows nor the 40 silver arrows. Her argument? "They are too precious." Of course they are! 20 blunt arrows cost twice as much as a normal one - 2 GP for 20 arrows instead of 1GP! So yeah. Problem banned cause it wasn't really a problem.
  • Lack of equipment: Fixed this slightly. I added an efficient quiver, a handy haversack and a headband of alluring charisma to the loot. This will be balanced out by some other loot that's removed from the adventure (or that they won't get to keep, at least - it's borrowed stuff the module assumes they keep, but giving it back to balance out the added stuff seems like an okay change).
  • Lack of planning: I talked to my group and they decided they wanted to go ahead as we did up until this point - no "coaching" before fights, but a little explanation after fights what would've been a good idea to avoid problems that ocurred like "Maybe you should carry a bow to fight a flying monster next time!". I also noted the next adventure has a hunter who admires adventurers, so he might tell them some stories or ask questions to give them some ideas ("Tell me! How would you solve problem X?" or "You only got one weapon? I heard of adventurers carrying four of them, to have the right one in every combat!"). I also commented of them not needing the bladeguard the ranger (of all people!) carried when fighting rust monsters since got slaughtered before they were really able to affect their gear which resulted in a "Wait. The ranger carries WHAT? Why didn't we know?!" - so yay on communication.
  • Learned lessons: They learned "Sometimes you gotta flee" pretty much on their own when a huge flying monster attacked them on a bridge over a huge chasm. So there's that. Also the frustration of not being able to identify items (2/4 items they found that day are still unidentified) might lead them to buying Scrolls:Identify pretty soon. So yay again.

Again, thank you all very much for your help.

(Note on the side: We decided to just ignore different sizes on arrows to spare us the headache. It just seems like it's not worth it, honestly - based on logic her quiver had to be small as well then, and found magic items should be small as well etc. pp. No, not getting into THAT discussion! ;) )

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Level 1 Commoner wrote:
It still played out rather well for your group, but doesn't Embermaw have a reset timer of 24 hours? Otherwise my group would have lost at least 2 people in Harrowstone.

I think the reset timer only comes into play if they destroyed the haunt. It's more or less a "respawn timer". They did not destroy him, the only fled --> haunt is still active --> FIERY DEATH!

Silver Crusade

4 people marked this as a favorite.

...the VC from another town is here to judge his Fifth-Star-game. You already think you're in for a treat* when you overhear him apologizing repeatedly to another player because he already judged a game the day before and produced the first TPK ever in this city.

*It WAS a great deal of fun and not nearly as deadly as I anticipated.

Silver Crusade

I will now proceed to shamelessly push this thread back to the top.

I used the IdiotDogBrains suggestion for the hook-clawed robot and it turned out great.
The group heard a faint scratching all the time while walking through the Schloss. When they reached the dining room they saw the robotic servant (who had not scythes as hands but rather fairly normal hands, though they ended in pretty shard knives as fingers) pinned against a wall. The Whispering Way had pinned him between the wall and the table and put his chalk board just out of reach so he kept clawing the table mechanically to reach it - of course, the only effect was that the table in his reach had been scrateched pretty badly.
After they had freed him and given him chalk it was great fun to roleplay him with his mechanical movements and everytime they asked him something the room grew dead silent while everybody was looking at me while I wrote something down on a block of paper. I also restricted me to no more than four words before I had to "erase" the chalk board (I gave him a sponge embedded into his right hand for such an occasion) and a very polite way of speech so they often had to wait for three or four boards.
I made sure however that while he would help them (I added some loot he would hand out freely to support them on their quest to save the Count) he had some barriers he was unable to break. He could not reveal secret doors, he could not tell them anything about the Count's wife and so on.
Not because he didn't know, but because he was not allowed to. He had no problems on them USING the secret doors, he just couldn't point them out.

All in all I'm really, really happy I stumbled upon this thread and wanted to raise it back up to show it to some newcomers! ;)

Silver Crusade


can a normal human/goblin/orc/whatever notice magic?
I assume they do have some ability do do so since everybody can notice a magic trap (even one which has alarm as a trigger), but it's not noted how this happens. Abjuration says that:

If one abjuration spell is active within 10 feet of another for 24 hours or more, the magical fields interfere with each other and create barely visible energy fluctuations. The DC to find such spells with the Perception skill drops by 4.

This suggests that visible fluctuations are not the "normal" state. I assume that the "DC to find such spells" focuses on stuff like glyphs and magic traps since I cannot find "normal" way of percepting magic.

But this raises the question: If a normal person cannot "see" magic, how can they detect a magic trap? What is the difference between "I guarded this area with an alarm spell" and "I guarded this area with an alarm spell and if it goes off, a fireball explodes"? What makes the latter of the two detectable without detect magic and how do I detect it? Is it a hunch? A flirring in the air? A little shining line on the ground which mysteriously goes dark when I can't see (since darkness still imposes huge penalties to perception)? Is it a faint buzzing? Or just whatever the heck I want it to be?

Also: I suppose that when a character manages to roll a high enough perception check to notice a trap he notices that, well, it's a trap and not just some undefined magic effect, right? How does he know? How can I describe that feeling instead of saying "Yup, you're seeing a magic trap alright. Though of course you don't see the magic itself. Just that it's a magic trap. Because reasons."?

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Gendo wrote:

...when you sit down at the table and the GM tells you he doesn't use maps and minis, going with theater of the mind games.

...everyone plays the same class.

...GM provides pre-gen characters that are solid, but are far from optimized.

If I sat down at a table I really wouldn't know that I'm in for a treat, but rather I'd be very concerned. Playing without a map can go horribly wrong in combats when people assume different things. A Tier 1-5 scenario with nothing but wizards can be deadly as hell (not to talk about a Tier 3-7 with nothing but fighters) and the pre-gen thing sounds like a GM who creates his own pre-gens. Which is illegal if they're not level 1.

Maybe you just left out some details, but I really wouldn't know I'm in for a treat. I'd be very, very worried.

Silver Crusade

I think I will give them the Spellcraft roll, this seems like a good idea. Knowledge Checks are pretty much the first reflex of the group, though I don't think anybody but the bard (who will not be present) has Knowledge: Planes.

I'm not TOO concerned about them dying since all of them still have 2 hero points - if they 'die' they can just pay 2 hero points, get knocked into the water and get washed ashore a few hundred feet down the river.

So yeah, maybe "slaugter" was too strong of a word. I will play nice and everything will work out, especially since the sorcerer just gave his character sheet to the cleric (a rule in my group: If you're not present and name a substitute, he may control your character as if it was his own). So they won't be TOO much at a disadvantage.

Silver Crusade

Thanks again for all your input, I really appreciate it.
What I'm going to do is this:
The character is a druid travelling through Ustalav. On her travels she reached a small village. While there the village was attacked from unholy creatures out of the forest, some of them animated plants. A few days prior to this a boy who had killed his lover was hung after a short trial and when investigating the old tree she found the body eviscerated and signs of a ritual. The ravens on the tree couldn't help her very much, but described the friendly men who helped them to their meal as always very quiet talking. She concluded that these men (obviously the Whispering Way) were up to no good and followed their trail.

My plan on bringing her in contact with the group will be a guard that managed to flee the massacre at Schloss Caromarc by falling into the river. He survived, but was wounded and lost when the druid found him. She will find him, hear his story and then now where she has to go next when she wants to find the cultists who almost doomed a whole village "by accident".

I am also considering adding a little side quest before they enter the Schloss itself, maybe escorting the wounded guard to the city or something alike. Maybe a random encounter or two. Not for a reason within the story but more because I'm a little bit scared that the next few encounters are going to outright SLAUGHTER them - instead of the usual 5 players there are only 4 present, one of which is the druid who has only two PFS scenarios with a level 1 character under her belt. Throwing the air elemental at 3 players + a newbie might be asking for trouble.

Silver Crusade

Thornborn: While I really like the idea (and I do! I think its a great and funny idea) it still feels like "Here is a new PC, deal with it and find a reason she wants to be with you."

wxcougar: I think her living nearby (or just passing by close and being curious enough to stick around for a while) could work. I don't want her to be tied up somewhere in the Schloss because it raises the question where her wolf (or whatever animal companion she chooses) was during this time (though it might have wandered off or was thrown into the river and survived) and of course why she of all people was spared by the cultists.

Silver Crusade


I have found a few threads discussing the addition of new characters or the replacement of dead ones, but I didn't really want to hijack another thread, especially not one several years old - people tend to only read the first few posts and missing the timestamp.

Again: TotB spoilers are ahead!

The situation is as follows: My group just reached Schloss Caromarc and killed all the trolls but did not yet manage to enter the building itself. Since it has gotten late they decided to rest and continue their efforts next time.
This was two months ago (RL got in the way) and now we have a new player joining. I have no idea how to bring her in, even shoehorning seems difficult. Now, a fighter, rogue, wizard, sorcerer or anything along those lines could be brought in by "Ah, the Order of the Platinum Eye could send her!", but now - she's a druid. Not really something you see in Ustalav all that often and not something the Platypus Eye would have too many connections with in my opinion.
It also seems unlikely that she's trapped inside the Schloss since everybody else has been killed and/or turned undead.

The only halfway decent idea I have is to retcon her in somehwere, but I'm not sure where. I could just say that she travelled with the Crooked Kin and followed them out of curiousity, but this pretty much forces the character into this role - though it might not be too far off if she decides to be a gnome.

So, can you help me with some suggestions? Order of the Peebrain Eye? Crooked Kin? Maybe something to do with Vorkstag who escaped them and followed them to take revenge? I'd appreciate it!


Silver Crusade

BigNorseWolf wrote:
and the map looks like this

URL broken (Hotlinking images is bad!). I assume you mean this article's second image.

Silver Crusade

I'm not sure if we are talking about different things when talking about formatting.

There is a format, of course, and it's quite easy to read it, too. What is different from the "normal" format is that there's a blank line after every line (which is something easily fixable) and the loss of the lines around Defense, Offense, Statistics etc.

These are the ones I'd really like to preserver.

Also apologies when I don't answer to this thread in the next few days as I will be without a computer.
Thanks for all the tips so far, but none of them really achieved what I wanted to have :(
The Monster Advancer comes close, though. And maybe I'm just doing something wrong with Google Docs ;)

Silver Crusade


She goes into the tub completly naked...and there are all kinds of dice...

So...she is in permanent danger of a d4 entering one of her orifices.
That's kinda scary.

Yes, I KNOW the actress wasn't naked. But still, it's portrayed that way.

Silver Crusade


while preparing a game recently I ran into a little problem.
I did not have access to my Bestiary and did not want to use my laptop at the table (taking up space and all that) so I decided "You know what? I ran The Confirmation and the statblocks in the Shared GM Prep-Drive were really awesome, so I think I will just copy the stuff from the PRD."

Well, to make it short: The layout did not survive copying it. It doesn't look HORRIBLE, no, but it basically loses every resemblance to the "iconic" statblocks.

Now, as linked above there seems to be a way to create statblocks looking like statblocks.
Can someone who did something like this give me some tips how to achieve it, maybe even give a template or something?
I assume it's not as easy as copying from the PRD because HTML, CSS and Libre Office don't really work together.
I did it quick&dirty by just screenshotting the PRD and mashing it together, but really - not a great way of doing things, especially if I want to upload it to the GM drive.

Help would be appreciated!

Silver Crusade

You have to burn them along with your character sheet to please the dice gods, of course!

Seriously: The character is dead. The chronicle sheets were attributed to him and cannot be transfered to another character. You cannot replay a scenario (Tier 1-2 excluded), so the only way to regain those exact chronicle sheets is GMing the scenario yourself (once).

Silver Crusade


First off: You can still get credit for the first module of First Steps. Only First Steps II and First Steps III are retired.
So that's something.
Also: Did you just sign up to run the events in the future or did you already run them? If you didn't: Just don't run them. It's a home game, you don't run one of the marked scenarios, no harm done.
If you already ran them you have to tell them to ignore the chronicle sheets for First Steps II and III and everything is back to normal. Apologize for the mistake and move on.

Silver Crusade

I did not know you were talking about a spell-like ability, sorry.
In that case I agree with Pirate Rob.


PRD wrote:
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components).

Link here

You are talking about called or summoned creatures. I'm pretty sure a PC qualifies as neither.
Okay, TECHNICALLY we are summoned by the VCs all the time before they send us off to our horrible, horrible deaths, but still.

Silver Crusade

Continual Flame needs ruby dust worth 50 gp as a material component.
So someone has to buy the dust (be it you or your customer - chances are you don't want to pay 50 bucks for his sword to shine) before casting the spell.

Also I would probably note it under "Conditions Gained" and maybe "Ruby Dust" on the Inventory Tracking sheet.

Silver Crusade

A player can always buy +1 weapons so they do not need to be on the chronicle sheet.

Silver Crusade

Aspasia de Malagant wrote:
Just out of curiosity, where are the pregens for the APG iconics and the magus?

They do not exist in a PFS-legal form. Masters of the Fallen Fortress has some of the APG classes at level 1, but again - not legal for PFS.

Silver Crusade

Why is this in GM Discussion? Seems like a general topic to me.

Anyways: Buying the scroll is possible, but not advisable. You pay lots of money for a scroll and there is always the possibility to botch the roll.
On the other hand, if you pay half the inscribe costs you gain access to the spells between scenarios. A witch doesn't even need to pay the inscribe costs itself since she doesn't have these.
Take for example a 4th level spell:

80 gp (NPC spellbook/familiar) vs. 700 gp (scroll)
Quite a difference!

Silver Crusade

I figured out how to do it (totally missed the "show all scenarios"-button, but still - seems like an odd bug to have. o_O

Silver Crusade


a few weeks ago I ran #5-08 The Confirmation for my group of players and reported.
Yesterday I ran First Steps I. Since it's more or less the same group of people and to make things easier for me I decided to use the same Event (thus not changing the Event number) and just adding a new session to the event as suggested by the Event Schedule Page:

If this is a public event and recurs regularly, such as a gaming night at a game store, please return here to add additional dates as necessary.

It's not really public, but I figured this shouldn't make much of a difference.

So I set up a new session with no problems and tried to report the game, but unfortunately I can't add First Steps I to the list of available scenarios. I can click the box in front of the scenario without any problems, but when I save the changes it's gone again and I cannot select it when reporting the session.
I tried adding another scenario (Mists of Mwangi) and it saved without problems.

Did anyone else run into this problem ever before?

Also: Why is it that I can download the session sheets for one of my events and none of the others?

Thanks in advance,

Silver Crusade

Bad Sintax wrote:
Blackbot, if you will notice, while this is in the PFS section, the OP is talking about his home game, not PFS, and trying to get his players acclimated to tabletop RPGs in general. It doesn't have anything to do with PFS.

I do apologize. I was under the impression that his home games were still PFS home games and somehow completly missed his post correcting that statement. It's fairly late here (GMT+1), sorry.

Under these circumstances I also apologize for calling your advice "horrible". Now I will merely call it "draconic", though I assume you exaggerated for effect ;)

Bad Sintax wrote:
Plus, if you as the GM explain the rules of Stealth to the players and the player does it anyway, expecting a different result (which seems to be what the OP was saying, unless I am misinterpreting), then you are on a great path towards one of the "worst Player ever" threads.

Having some MMORPG experiences myself I can see why he would think stealth works that way and I do believe that there should be a warning first. When a player assumes something that is obviously wrong (like misunderstanding how stealth works, how spells work, how wide a bridge is etc.) I don't think you should let them fail miserably before at least warning them. Except when it's for comedic effect. ;)

Bad Sintax wrote:

In addition, what do you think the result would be if one of the OP's players ever actually goes to a convention to play PFS - where rules are mandated? How do you think it would go over when the player argues and says, "You can't see me, I'm in stealth mode like in WOW," while in a brightly lit hallway?

Would the convention GM say, "Oh, ok, I don't want to put you off PFS, so sure whatever you say." while the other players sit around and go, "Wha?" I don't think that would be the case. In fact, the idea made me chuckle.

So we made each other chuckle, that's a plus! ;)

I can see both our interpretations in the first post - maybe the player falsely assumed it worked "the MMO way", maybe he started a discussion about it because he wanted it to work like in an MMO and did not want to play by more realistic rules. Clarification needed, I guess.

Again, I don't mean the OP should just give in and use their expectations of the rules.
I just think punishment for a simple misunderstanding of the rules shouldn't be the first thing to try. I for once would be pretty annoyed if I started playing a game with unknown rules, misunderstanding one of them and geting screwed (not knowing that standing up provokes an AoO) and/or killed (dragon's breath) as a result. There's a difference between "Okay, you 'stealthed' down the brightly lit hallway, the kobolds saw you and raised the alarm." and "The hallway is brightly lit, you will probably be seen when entering this way, no matter how sneaky you are."

Silver Crusade

Bad Sintax, while I had to chuckle - it's just horrible advice.

First off, you are simply not allowed to hit your friend in the back with a fireball in PFS. No PvP except when all affected players agree that it's necessary (or just cool).

Instantly killing a player who is new to the game and misinterprets stealth rules is another great path to all the "Worst GM ever"-threads.

I agree about the grid, though. It helps to just SEE where everybody stands, but I honestly never had a player (in ANY game) assume that attacking someone several squares away was even an option. Even Risk does not allow that.

While the dead PC meatgrinder might be fine for some players, it's a sure thing so scare people off of PFS. Bad, bad, bad idea.

Silver Crusade

Awesome to hear. Now, the quoted part doesn't really spell it out, but I assume GM credit is applied as well?

Side note: It took my group about 4 sessions to finish the first module of The Carrion Crown with about 8 hours per session.
The second module took them quite a bit longer - we're about 6 sessions in and it will take at least two more.

Silver Crusade

Did I understand this correctly:

I can play the AP with as many house rules as I want and switch it around as I want (usual home game stuff - making this monster stronger, making that monster weaker) and give my group chronicle sheets for completing certain sections of the AP which they can apply to their PFS characters?

I always thought the "PFS-characters-only"-ruling was the only option there.

Silver Crusade

Your APL is (3+3+2+2+1+1)/6 = 2.
So you have to play in Subtier 1-2, not much you can do about that.

Silver Crusade

A real archaeologist as a Venture Captain?

So...a VC that is proficient with a whip. Yay! ;)

Silver Crusade

Wow. Okay.
This seems like an awful lot of people to handle - though my perception might be a bit twisted. I live in the Ruhr region in Germany.It has about 10% the area of Sweden and 90% the population.
I'm impressed - congrats once again! ;)

Silver Crusade

One VC for all of Sweden? Wow.


Silver Crusade

Introduce himself? Today?
I thought all of Cologne is completly hammered at this time of the year...


Congratulations, Markus!

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, that COULD make for some interesting adventures. "But brave heroes, surely you can tell us how you defeated the dragon!" - "We can't, its confidential! Anyway, your majesty, how is your sex life?"

Silver Crusade

Insain Dragoon wrote:

"James Jacobs

I'm pretty sure this thread has run it's course, especially considering it's now the weekend.

Let's all take a step away from the thread for a few days, folks, take some deep calming breaths, and then look forward to starting next week, hopefully, with an official response to the hex question. Continuing to argue here isn't gonna make that happen any faster, but I can certainly see it making things happen much slower."

From Link Fixed

Silver Crusade

The Beard wrote:
... the person that was sitting beside you just swiped your character sheet and left with it.

He was probably still angry that his mugging earlier was unsuccessful.

Silver Crusade

Thanks. Never even thought of applying it like that ("overriding" the special UMD clause), but I can see why other people might think it's working that way.

Anyways, back to topic!

Silver Crusade

Mattastrophic wrote:

2. As a player, you will get blindsided. Often, elements of the rules which you (and all your previous GMs) thought were crystal-clear will turn out not to be. As an example, I have a character with the rogue talent Skill Mastery, with Use Magic Device as one of my chosen skills. I got blindsided once when I went to activate a scroll of fly. I had no idea that there was an issue there until that moment.

I'm curious. What was the issue?

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
Option 1. Creative solutions clause means they always get the gold reward, but they never obtained those items. Oh, but of course full rewards less the bribe. They still have to pay that.

The Guide To Organized Play disagrees with you and calls for Option 4:

Guide to Organized Play, p. 33 wrote:
If,for example, your players manage to roleplay their way through a combat and successfully accomplish the goal of that encounter without killing the antagonist, give the PCs the same reward they would have gained had they defeated their opponent in combat. If that scene specifically calls for the PCs to receive gold piece rewards based on the gear collected from the defeated combatants, instead allow the PCs to find a chest of gold (or something similar) that gives them the same rewards. Additionally, if the PCs roleplayed past an NPC who carries a specific potion or scroll that the PCs might be granted access to on the scenario’s Chronicle sheet, don’t cross that item off the sheet—instead, allow the PCs to find the item elsewhere as a reward for creatively resolving the encounter without resorting to combat.

So while the creative solutions clause doesn't mean that the foe hands his items over to them, they are still expected to find the items elsewhere. Or at least they should not be crossed off the chronicle sheet.

EDIT: Rereading it, the Guide only talks about scrolls or potions. Hu. I'm not sure if there is an oversight or actually intended. Seems oddly specific.

Silver Crusade

Kimera757 wrote:
Talk to them. Unless you tell the players that they need +1 weapons by 4th-level they won't know. You sound as if you're more experienced than your players. It's not a good idea to let them fight incorporeal creatures without magic weapons; they'll just get frustrated.

It is not their first encounter with incorporeal beings - the first time around they quickly figured out how to deal with them. The ranger just did not go from "There are incorporeal enemies ahead" to "I need a magic weapon this time". Well, actually she did, but only when they entered the area.

Kimera757 wrote:
This is a bit of a first world problem. Unfortunately, the PC who could have had that spell is a sorcerer and not a wizard. A Scroll of Identify costs a lot, and inexperienced players might not think they need the spell.

25gp is hardly a lot. Not something you use everyday, but something you should have just in case you need it.

Kimera757 wrote:
At least the lack of arrows dawned on them. PCs aren't expected to have +1 weapons until 4th-level, and at that level they're expected to have them. They're level 6 so they should have them, but these players sound so inexperienced that they probably need you to tell them this. Players might not even understand the Big Six unless you tell them about that.

This is an interesting point I didn't even consider, actually. I would not call myself experienced, though. I have one PFS character on level 3, played in an online campaign which really had little to no connection to WBL (one magic item per character on level 7, and not a weapon at that) and this is the first campaign I ever GMed, so I learn along with them.

I do, however, crawl the forums a lot, so I guess my overview is a little better than theirs. While I do not want to spoil their fun by telling them "Guys, this is the way to play - stick to it!" I will consider to give them more advice ingame. Some tales at the campfire and all that. Maybe sprinkled with some horrific deaths of the narrator's friends.

Silver Crusade

Forthepie wrote:

I understand loot, but I think either the ranger isn't prioritizing their purchases correctly or you aren't close to the wealth for 6, which I understand, I am playing a low wealth game with my friends, so that does kinda hurt.

Well, after roughly calculating their wealth they do hit their WBL more or less - it's just not very evenly distributed. The paladin wields a keen longsword +1 they found since level 4, for example. That's a reason I want the lists from them, to even this out a little.

Forthepie wrote:
Oh and one other thing. There is an option for durable arrows, which aren't destroyed by normal use.

Looked it up at D20PFSRD - those are from Elves of Golarion. I do not own this book and as I said, I want to keep complexity to a minimum.

Forthepie wrote:
Doing the math. 6th level 2 attacks per full round, plus potentially Rapid Shot and Manyshot. You are looking at possibly 4 or 5 arrows in the air each round?

You are right, I somehow misremembered. Your assumption is dead on (not bad for horde scum! ;) ), but early on she abandoned her last attack each round to save arrows.

Silver Crusade

Seannoss wrote:
As for magic weapons....its a first level spell that any cleric can cast and that arcane types might know. Your Pcs can work together and figure that out.

As I said, they also could've bought oil or something. They didn't. They seem to be huge fans of learning by hindsight. It worked out, the ranger has a magic bow now - it was just a little example of the rangers general ditzyness. ;)

Dasrak wrote:
The Paladin is the only one that worries me there.

Me too. Since the sorcerer pretty much defaulted to "I start dancing" when he ran out of spells since level 1 I expected nothing more from him, honestly...;)

My suggestion: drop a potion of fly as treasure somewhere and leave it at that. Honestly, though, it sounds like you've got a high enough level party that they should be equipped for flying and maybe even teleporting enemies, so the Paladin really shouldn't complain if such encounters come up.

Now this is something interesting I'd really like more opinions about. As I already stated the group is level 6 and about to hit level 7 - is it really that commonplace to have means to fly around at this level? While the group fought some flying enemies, this is the first one with a ranged attack, so the I-can't-reach-him-problem did not come up so far. I'm hesitant about a potion: fly, though.

Dasrak wrote:
Yeah, that's definitely poor judgement. If this is a new player, just find a handy haversack filled with arrows as treasure somewhere. Otherwise, this player needs to suffer the consequences of their own actions.

I guess I'll stick with my plan to let her suffer through one encounter before giving her the ability to regain some arrows. A handy haversack might be a better idea than the quiver, even - the group still has no bag of holding or alike.

Silver Crusade

Abundant Ammunition is from UM. We just introduced the APG to our set of books to draw from since the group is fairly new to the game and overwhelming ourselves with options didn't seem like a good idea to any of us.

Silver Crusade

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Forthepie: Bah, just use a gun like a proper dwarf should and be nice to your engineer and you can get ammo everywhere! ;)

You adress an interesting point, though - the loot so far wasn't too great for the ranger and she only just got her composite longbow +1, and even that only with donations from other party members. That might be something I could change. I asked them once to give me a list with all their magical equipment to get an overview about the walth by level, but you know how players are - I got a list from everybody but the ones I was really interested in ;)
Thinking about it...if she finds a full efficient quiver after a combat where she had no arrows at all...yeah, that would be awesome!
(I do read the item correctly: It's a quiver that I can fill with 60 arrows, right?)

Silver Crusade

Thanks for the answers so far, keep 'em coming! ;)
Fomsie: The ranger realized in the first combat about the upcoming shortage and restrained herself to firing two arrows a round. The story teller might come up later when they're back in town (just to rub salt in the wound), but the child already fell down the well. (I'm not sure how to translate this German figure of speech - it means that the problem already has arisen, it's too late to prevent it and now it must be dealt with). I like the idea with the caravan, though - especially since it's mentioned that the dungeon receives regular supplies from another town, so it might not be unreasonable that one of those arrives soon.

Count Coltello: I think that would make it too easy for them. As I said, the scrolls are not that important. And they are already on the dungeon's door step, so no meeting anyone before going in...

born of fire:: Apologies, I should have clarified that they already tried to identify the item without the spell. That's what I meant - they will succeed sooner or later since 2 party members have some ranks in spellcraft. Identify would just hurry up the process.
You are wrong on the arrows, though - they can be salvaged 50% of the time they do not hit their target. But since the ranger fired at enemies far higher than her most arrows either flew over their heads (and into the distance) or hit the stone wall they were using as cover and I kinda doubt that any arrow will be usable after that.
I like the idea of adding just a couple of arrows at a time and maybe letting her suffer for one combat. The donkey at the entrance would be pretty useful, though - it's the difference between riding back into town (~8h) or going back to the entrance of the dungeon (~10 Minutes max).

Silver Crusade


while running a campaign there seems to be a problem coming up on which I'd like some advice.
The situation: The party is in a dungeon about one day of travel away from the next town. While they may not have expected the dungeon itself (the dungeon has been overtaken by an evil force) they geared up for the worst, already assuming that something was wrong at the place.

It should be noted the characters are level 6 and have about multiple hundred gold pieces each. Also: This is the first time they are running into a dungeon that is not a) no more than 4 rooms or b) directly next to or inside a town.

So, the party kicks the first monster's arse and proceeds to enter the dungeon. We ended directly before entering the dungeon itself, but it is now that I see multiple problems coming up...

  1. The casters purchased some scrolls, but none of them with identify. This already bit them as they could not identify a pretty powerful staff.
  2. The ranger and the bard (who remained back in town and will follow) both have a bow and a back-up weapon for melee. Cleric, paladin and sorcerer don't. Oh, sure, the paladin has two or three melee weapons, but not even a lousy shortbow.
  3. The ranger bought arrows. 20 arrows. While fighting the guards it dawned on her that this might not be enough if you shoot 4 arrows a round. This is not a first with her, too - prior to this the group had to fight incorporeal beings and she had no magic weapon, not even an oil: magic weapon. The group received multiple warnings that place was "full of monsters my weapons could not touch, I swear to the gods!"

Long story short: I fully expect them to really, really suffer. This might be the first time they will actually get into big trouble.

Problem 1 might not be so bad - they have two (later three) tries to idedentify each day (cleric + sorcerer + the bard that will, again, follow later). They might consider buying some scrolls or a wand later.
Problem 2 might be a bigger issue since they are about to go up against a flying enemy (in conditions favoring him nontheless), but again, I'm not too concerned - they have the opportunity to flee the encounter or shift the battle to a environment more suited to their style of combat. Plus the paladin has a little god complex and I think it wouldn't be too bad to show him that there ARE monsters he can't do anything against with this attitude.
Problem 3 is the biggest one. A ranger with focus on ranged combet is just near useless in a dungeon without her arrows. She can go into melee, but that really isn't an ideal solution.

I thought up 4 possibilities:

  1. The dungeon as written has no arrows, but it wouldn't be too hard to just put them there. There are reasons for them to be there - the lord of the dungeon might be an avid hunter, for example. Or it's a hobby. Or one of the guards used an arrow and they called him Hawkeye.
  2. I offer her to use a hero point to just say "I bought another 200 arrows in town and they are on my mule.", basically using hero points for small retcons.
  3. I let them suck it up. They have to ride back into town to get more supplies.
  4. The bard brings an enormous amount of arrows with him once he follows. Because he just knows how ditzy the ranger tends to be and just figured she'd forget to buy arrows. (This is pretty much in character for both the ranger and her player, actuall...)

My favorite solution so far is the second one, but I'd really like to get some more input on this.

Thanks for reading this wall of text,

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