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Pelastour

BlackUhuru's page

Goblin Squad Member. 220 posts (248 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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I watched the last hours of SWG being streamed... That was sad ):

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Now I'm getting excited... I would LOVE to see some in-game footage !

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Pathfinder Online: It's good mood food!

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Waruko wrote:
Blaeringr wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:
and they also often misfire as the players creatively out think the plans of the developers in realtime.
He's right. Messing with live events can actually be a lot of fun.
All Hail Lord British!

*Casts Firefield*

Goblin Squad Member

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*raises glass* I'll drink to that!

Goblin Squad Member

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It seems like a lot of people are concerned about the PvP aspect of PFO, I understand their concerns but I think it's more or less a case of not having enough experience playing in that kind of environment. PvP in PFO will most likely not be Darkfall or Mortal, let me explain.

1. PFO is not full loot, you only drop a portion of what's in you bag. No armor drop, no weapon drops. In Darkfall and Mortal as full loot systems, you as a player gain everything you need to play the game from full loot drops, in PFO item drops from PvP will be minimal at best.

2. In Darkfall and Mortal there is litteraly no PvE to speak of, all there is for combat is PvP. Ryan has made it very clear that PvE in PFO will be very robust and rewarding. You will gain more rewards and riches through PvE. Players tend to follow the path of least resistance and fortune.

3. In Darkfall and Mortal there are no safe zones other then in a few cities, and even in the cities you can be killed out side the gates, this leads to griefers concentrating at the front gates for the easy kill. In PFO the safe zones are going to be much larger, maybe 4-10 hexes in size, so the griefers will have to venture further out into hostile territory to get a kill. And we all no griefers don't enjoy risk, they want easy kills and don't enjoy being challenge by equal opponents.

4. Convenience! If you spend 30 minutes to travel out into the wilderness to hunt mobs or gather resources, I will bet that before you attack another player you will consider the fact that if you lose your going to have a long ride back. In PFO travel will be a huge determining factor for many players.

5. The size of the world! In Ultima Online the world is so large that you could spend hours hunting by yourself without ever running into another player, and in most cases that other player is doing something other then trying to kill you. Once again the majority of gankers in UO would camp out side of cities or teleportation stones, looking for the easy kill.
Get out into the wilderness and PvP does happen but in most cases it's a welcomed challenge. But once again in PFO travel restrictions will most likely be the deciding factor for PvP encounters in the open world.

6. Give players more rewarding features other then PvP and you will see a more balanced game. If PvE is more rewarding then PvP, players will do what's more rewarding for them.

If PFO provides its players with a rewarding and robust PvE and non combat experience we will have a great game.

Goblin Squad Member

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"You can send as many of your men as you want after me, just don't send the ones you want back"

~ SaltLik Keyoath - Guardian of The Verduran Forest -

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We need a big push for the next 500!! Tell your friends, wife, husband, kids, uncles, aunts, enemies!!!!

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Valkenr wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
Valkenr wrote:
Or better yet, allow players to make their own party like in NWN, and switch between them easily.

I am convinced this will eventually happen in some MMO, at which point it will soon be in almost every MMO after that. It's just a question of breaking the taboo.

And you need a company like GW, to break that taboo, and become really successful. Because there is no way any big studio will take any risk, this has been proven time and time again by EA, SOE, NCSOFT, Cryptic, and pretty much every studio over in SE Asia.

^^ This 100%

Goblin Squad Member

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I've played a lot of games that allowed dual boxing and in my experience it never bothered me. For the most part it was just solo players grinding out mobs and using a buff bot.

But what does get annoying is when your out exploring and keep running into player chars that don't respond (dual char left unattended). I found myself just killing them for no reason other then being annoyed.

So either way I'm fine with it if that's what one wants to do but I personally would prefer not to run into dozens of unattended chars hiding in the bushes with no pulse.

Goblin Squad Member

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Yes open world dungeons!!

Also locating dungeons and locking them with the ability to sell the key and location is a very cool mechanic, I hope Ryan considers this idea.

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In no way can you buy anything to increase the speed of your skill leveling.

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Urman wrote:

I understand that players can buy skill training time, I'm not sure if that answers my question, so I'll ask it as a hypothetical:

Player A is one of the lucky players that joins the game at launch. She faithfully subscribes and one year after launch has accumulated and spent 12 months of skill training time.

Player B is slow to jump on the bandwagon, and he joins the game in the fourth month, so one year after launch he's accumulated and used ~9 months of skill training time. Can he ever buy *and use* skill training time to close that gap between his character and Player A's character?

No...

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My top 10 worst game designs:

1. Instances - PvE, PvP and housing, takes players out of the world.
2. Graphics - Developer resource hog, less unique game mechanics and features.
3. Zone Levels - no need to revisit zone after you out level.
4. Set Gear - Forces you to play a certain way, everyones a clone of each other.
5. Global Auction House - Killed crafting as a profession.
6. End Game - Creates mmo of the month, no long term success.
7. Full Loot - Segregated the gaming population, no more need to PvE.
8. Small Worlds - No exploration
9. Large Raid Bosses - Created Elitists, content for only a small minority.
10. Questing - No need to use your imagination, developers RP for you.

Goblin Squad Member

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I understand some people will open this thread and respond with a typical "TL;DR" and I could care less, this is for Ryan and the Dev team. I would highly recommend everyone read it but realize most won't.

Auction houses killed the crafter, if you read Raph Kosters blog above it gives insight into how and why. If you look at every MMO developed in the past 8 years with auction houses you will notice crafting is insignificant game feature and only a handful of elite gamers can benefit from auction houses.

If PFO really wants crafting to be a viable option of game play then please dont give in to convenience/auction house!!

"Every inconvenience is a challenge, and games are made of challenges. This means that every inconvenience in your design is potentially someone’s game".

~ Raph Koster

Goblin Squad Member

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Once upon a time, there was a game set in a science fiction universe where the economy was very important. Its name was not Eve.
In this game, players could, if they so chose, run a business. They could
designate a building as a shop
hire an NPC bot to stand in it
give the bot items to hold for sale
specify the prices at which those items would sell
customize the bot in a variety of ways
make use of advertising facilities to market the shop
decorate the shop any way they pleased
With this basic facility, emergent gameplay tied to the way that the crafting system worked resulted in players who chose to run shops being able to do things Ike build supply chains, manage regular inventory, develop regular customer bases, build marketing campaigns, and in general, play a lemonade stand writ large.
The upshot was that at peak, fully half the players in Star Wars Galaxies ran a shop.

Now, most of these players engaged in the system in a shallow way. Advanced versions of the capabilities cited above were unlocked based on RPG-style advancement. You had to choose to do a lot of merchant activity in order to get Merchant XP, in order to unlock more advanced advertising capabilities etc. But even a dabbler could run a small business.
Advanced players actually made the economy their entire game, working either solo or in highly organized guilds, managing oilfields worth of harvesters, factory towns worth of crafting stations, and whole malls.
The economy in something like World of Warcraft is very different in character. The peak populations on a shard in each game were comparable, though of course WoW achieved far far higher subscriber numbers in aggregate. But the peak of economic play in WoW is essentially basic arbitrage, timing the market.
There are several factors that make the functioning of the two economies radically different, of course.
in WoW all the best stuff is spawned as a result on combat. In SWG it was crafted by players.
in WoW nothing breaks; instead you outlevel it. In original SWG everything decayed.
in WoW a lot of the most valuable items aren’t actually items — they are buffs or skills in fancy dress. They aren’t transferable to other players. In SWG there was no “soul binding” and anything could be traded or gifted.
Fundamentally, though, the biggest difference has to do with the basic approach taken. You see, in Star Wars Galaxies we designed the economy to be a game, not a side effect. In particular, the merchant class was created to fulfill the fantasy of running your own business. It had features like decorating your shop because that is part of the fantasy of being a shopkeeper in a world such as that — to build up the equivalent of Watto’s junkyard, or a Trade Federation.
And this meant that above all, one feature could not exist: the auction house.
If you think of running a business as a game, then think about what you need in order to make it fun. Game grammar tells us that you are probably playing this as an asynchronous parallel game, meaning that you are measuring yourself against other players’ progress against the same opponent you fight. What’s the opponent? The vagaries of supply and demand as expressed by market price. The actions of other players have an indirect effect on this system.
Remember, a game provides statistically varied opposition within a common framework — if there is no variation, we call it a puzzle, not a game. Because of this, we invested a lot of effort into creating ever-varying economic situations in SWG.
Every resource in SWG was randomly generated off of master types. We defined “iron,” and gave it statistical ranges. Different kinds of iron would spawn with
different names, but they would all work as iron in any recipe that called for such. This meant that you might find a high-quality vein of iron, or a low quality one.
Even more, it might be high quality only for specific purposes.
Resource types were finite. You could literally mine out all the high quality iron there was. It would just be gone. A new iron might be spawned eventually (sometimes, very eventually!) but of course, it would be rolled up with different characteristics.
And in a different place. Resources were placed using freshly generated Perlin noise maps.
Crafters gambled with their resources, generating items of varying quality that were partially dependent on the resources and the recipe.
Crafters could lock in specific results as blueprints, but that forced a dependency on the specific finite resource that was used, meaning that blueprints naturally obsolesced.
All of this meant that a merchant could never rely having the best item, or the most desirable item (indeed, “most desirable” could exist on several axes, meaning that there were varying customer preferences in terms of what they liked in a blaster). Word spread through informal means as to the locations of rare ore deposits. People fought PvP battles over them. People hoarded minerals just
to sell them on the market once they had become rare. And of course, they organized sites like the now defunct SWGCraft.com, which monitored all of this fluctuating data and fed it back out in tidy feeds for other sites and even apps to consume, such as this one, which was widely used by hardcore business players much like a Bloomberg terminal is by someone who plays the market.
Then it all went away. You see, a key feature of the system was that the central NPC run shops were not permitted to interfere with this. Nor was the spawn system allowed to drop high quality items as loot. The result was that if you wanted the coolest weapon, you had to hunt through player-run shops like a mad antiquer on a summer drive. The result of the above systems, you see, was an economy where it was very very hard to see the gestalt of the trade economy. You really had to hunt to find out if you had found a bargain.
For someone who just wanted to frickin’ buy a blaster, it was very inconvenient.
In other words, we had local pricing in full effect. This meant that the individual merchant, who, remember, was there to fulfill the fantasy of running a small business, could get away with not being being great at it.
In the real world, we are rapidly approaching a perfect information economy. I can instantly look up the varying prices of something I want, determine the one with the lowest actual cost to me (price, shipping, time to arrival, physical location, quality, etc), and get exactly what I want. It is a world optimized for the buyer.
The experience for the seller, though, is not generally awesome, unless they happen to have the scale that drives victory in a winner takes all scenario. The big guys can essentially dictate prices by undercutting everyone. They dominate the visible market, and can drown out the smaller or more unique offerings. In this sort of world, the funky used bookstore with the awesome decor tends to die, and it doesn’t matter how much fun the shop owner had in coming up with said decor.
SWG eventually did put in a serverwide auction house, responding to WoW. It made life easier for the buyers. But it created a perfect information economy, and all that complexity and variation that was present in the market earlier fell away. Small shopkeepers were shut out of markets.
If that happens to you in a game, you don’t find another line of work. You quit.
So do auction houses suck? No, not if your game is about getting. It is a better experience for a gamer interesting in getting.
But the fantasy of running a shop, or being a business tycoon, is not just about the getting. It is about the having — of relationships, of an empire, of a well-oiled machine. It is about running things, not about working your way up a chain of gewgaws. The gewgaws are a way to keep score, but you play the game for the sake of the game.
SWG was not a game about getting. After all, everything you could get in the game eventually broke. It was about the having. Having your shops, your town, your supply chain, your loyal customers, your collectible Krayt dragon skull or poster or miniature plush Bantha like in the Christmas Special.
When the merchant changes went in to SWG, the merchants went out.
Getting is kind of addictive. For a mass market audience, it may well be the path to greater acceptance and higher profits. Me, I like funky bookstores; but I have to admit I usually buy from Amazon. It’s convenient.
The lesson here is that sometimes features that make things better for one player make them dramatically worse for another. Every time you make a design choice you are closing as many doors as you open. In particular, you should always say to yourself,
I’m adding this feature for player convenience. How many people live for the play that this inconvenience affords?
The small shopkeepers; the socializers who need the extra five minutes you have to spend waiting for a boat at the Everquest docks; the players who live to help, and can’t once every item is soul bound and every fight is group locked and they can’t even step in to save your life; the role player who cannot be who they wish to be because their dialogue is prewritten; the person proud of his knowledge of the dangerous mountains who is bypassed by a teleporter; the person who wants to be lost in the woods and cannot because there is a mini-map.
Every inconvenience is a challenge, and games are made of challenges. This means that every inconvenience in your design is potentially someone’s game.

~Raph Koster

Goblin Squad Member

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"Everyone in a sandbox ends up ‘living’ in the world rather than progressing through it."

~Keen

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"Inspired by pen and paper gaming; the project wouldn’t focus on the heroics of the individual, but instead the idea of co-existing in a world with others."

~Adam Tingle

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As long as no one breaks The Six River Freedoms I don't care what the citizens of the River Kingdoms do, they are free here to live as they wish. But once you break your Oath I will be forced to track you down and slide my blade across your throat, your blood will flow like the Sellen River leaving your last mark on this planet.

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How about making spell casters use reagents to cast spells. Low lvl spell would only use say 2 ginseng, 2 garlic, 1 mandrake root, these reagents would be cheap cost off npc vendors.

Higher lvl spells would cost more in reagents and even some reagents could only be gathered from highend zones or drops from elite lvl creatures.

This would prevent spellcasters from spamming spells if it cost them a fortune, this way spellcasters could still have extremely powerful spells but only at a cost.

And with weight limitations and bag space one could only carry so many reagents at a time.

Having to pay for low lvl reagents also helps consume ingame gold, and high lvl reagents would give the adventurer something to find and sell for a good price on the market.

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Cartography is a must... !!

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Kind of off topic I just wanted see what you guys/gals thought about an idea.

In UO if your killed by a monster that same mob will take items from your bag when you die, after you go back to collect your corpse/husk you can try and kill that monster to get your items back.

What I would like to see in PFO is that if your killed and looted by a mob whatever that mob keeps remains on that mobs inventory forever, so if your not able to get back to your corpse or you can't find the mob that looted you others will have that opportunity to collect the items if and when that mob is killed.

I always found having to get revenge and get my stuff back from a mob that killed me adds another layer of realism and fun.

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I would like to see the treasure chest come back with PFO, instead of mobs dropping coin and weapons let that stuff be found in chests and boxes.

For instance let's say you happen apon a goblin encampment, in this encampment is surrounded by many goblins of all types.

In the center of there encampment is treasure chests and crates full of goods they have collected o er time from scavenging and killing adventurers.

This is how you get gold and weapons from treasure chests, not from the mobs dropping items.

Say you venture out into the wilds and come apon a mysterious lair, you call your friends to help you clear this lair. After clearing hordes of beast in the lair you end up face to face with a group of succubis guarding a room full of treasure chest, crates and boxes full of gold and armor.

There's nothing better then finding treasure chests, and not knowing what's inside untill you dispatch the evil that surrounds them.

Also it's great when your out adventuring and you happen to find an abandoned encampment with crates and chests (Easter egg gifts).

So mobs only drop materials for crafting and all gold, magical items and armor come via treasure chests in encampments, Lairs, caves, dungeons and Easter eggs etc.

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@Scholar

Considering in PFO if you get killed by another player you can be looted I don't think many people will be carrying around a full set of clubs.

My example above was a 2-3 hour process with many trips to the house in between stages. I would carry a few different bows at a time and swap them out for others.

I think in PFO most players will only carry what is needed for that adventure like you stated, to much risk in losing items if you get pk'ed.

Im sure there will be weight limitations in PFO.

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In sandbox games I like running to town and hooking up with people looking for something to do, town was always the place to go to find a group.

As much as I liked the LFG tools in modern themepark games I tend to find the social aspect of meeting up in towns and forming your group more immersive.

It's a lot more work to get people together that way, but the towns always had people chatting it up and running around which made it feel more alive.

I would also organize large server raids from town by crafting books and writing in them all the details of what time, where to meet and what day the event will happen.

I would drop these books all over town for anyone to read. Somedays we would have dozens of players show up for the events.

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@ Forlarren

Yes I never played SWG but in UO I could spend days just cruising around from player merchant to player merchant shopping. When I found a real great merchant I would mark a rune to that Players house for future trips back.

In my house I had a collection of rune books on a shelf and would port to that vendor for specific goods, so many players would specialize in certain player made goods and every item made was stamped with the names. Some items sold for alot because of the age or rarity of the items, I have some clothing made in 98 from a player named virsace that's worth millions because of who made it and it's age.

People in UO love to collect rare and old items to display in there castles.

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In UO people would build library's, fully stocked with shelves and locked down books. Some books would tell stories that players wrote, some with marked runes to teleport to anywhere in the world of britania, books with various game guides, PvP hotelier, PvE spots and player merchant vendors.

Everything was player made including g the building and books used to write in.

I even built a gambling house ( Sonoma shards first speech easy), everything inside I crafted like dice, chessboards, checkers. Everything was locked down but could be used by anyone. Many of nights gambling that would soon after end up with PvP (:

Back then there was no AH so players would build large auction houses and would host auctions every week of player made goods, world rares and monster loot.

Everything in UO was player made and operated and I hope Ryan will bring that back into fashion with PFO.

Posting from my iPhone didn't proof read sorry!


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