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Elan

Black Powder Chocobo's page

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16. Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 6 Season Dedicated Voter, 7 Season Star Voter, 8 Season Star Voter. FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City. 2,421 posts (12,888 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist. 34 Pathfinder Society characters. 20 aliases.


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Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

Mostly option b. However, anything consumed cannot be refunded. So any potions you used, wands you used a charge of, cannot be returned. Otherwise, you can get a full refund for anything you purchased until you hit level 2.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Unfortunately, no. Lyncanthropy is one of the conditions that must be resolved before the end of the scenario or your character is marked as dead.

As an alternative idea, instead of having a PC that would eventually be a true lycanthrope, perhaps have the PC striving for it... but never actually gets there. A skinwalker PC or a totem druid of the desired animal are my first two thoughts.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Sorry guys, I'll have a level 1 PC ready by tomorrow!

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

August 27th IIRC, so just over 2 weeks. It's up to you. I'm already in a few PbP games for the event so if this one isn't on it, no pressure :)

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Dot for now; probably going to play either my Tengu Barbarian/Fighter or my tengu elemental ascetic kineticist depending on tier.

@EF: Going to make it part of the PbP GD 5?

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

I agree with the others that asking before the issue comes up goes a long way.

Before the monk flurry was FAQ'ed, at GenCon 12 I used a monk that flurried with 2H weapon and wanted to know if I'd get 1.5 my Str mod in damage when flurrying with it. During sign-ins, I asked the GMs: 2 GM's said ok, 1 said no. I played it accordingly and moved on. All of the GM's were polite about it whether ruling for or against the 1.5 Str and the issue didn't waste any time during the game itself.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

What? I can't be involved with 4 PbP with you JAF0? :P

Hmm... debating, could double magus (staff/card caster with a dip into lore warden for some much needed combat feats), but I'll probably play my Envoy of Balance cleric of Pharasma for heals and support.

Also have a switch hitter hunter with an owl bear and a tengu elemental ascetic of fire for more durable bodies.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Well, we could do 5-6 if Ajax doesn't mind being the ringer for the group :)

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Actually, I was going to suggest my level 6 as my level 7 is currently saved for Bonekeeping :) What say the others?

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Dot!

I can run most any tier and can cover many a role depending on tier. Something above 3-4 is preferred though :)

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

I am looking forward to this for a couple of my PCs, particularly my Oath of Charity halfling paladin.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

DH is a move action as per its text, so there wouldn't have been a standard action conflict. But if you'd prefer to have the prayer over the DH, then that is fine (I did interrupt your action after all). Finally, most agreed that since the spell to emulate is hard to pinpoint, the highest level spell available when acquired is the best rule of thumb, so your DH would be 3rd level for concentration purposes. Between that and retconning away the DH, you still have your reroll.

Looks at Sulukta's feats, frowns at her lack of Combat Reflexes

Amarthecthel boosts the party's speed, then darts behind the large woman before she can react.

Init Order (bold = up)
Group buffs:
Prayer (8 rounds remaining)
Haste (7 rounds remaining)

Velidor
Sulukta (8 damage)
Pelkin (prone)
Twigg/Mexel
Amarthecthel
Lore

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

With a single cut, Marduk finishes off his target.

You can choose to move as your first swing was all you needed

And with that, calling combat as with all of the parent plants defeated, no more spawns will arise, although I realized I missed Benson again...

The party makes short work of the last plant zombie, although the plants in the cave begin to rapidly wilt.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

I have a friend who had an elf magus with an 8 Con. After nearly killing her 3 scenarios in a row (technically I did once, but she was breath of life'ed, she invested in a +2 Con belt and the Toughness feat. She's at level 9 with that PC, maybe 10.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

Hello and welcome back!

To answer your questions (which are in the new guide)

1. If the character has not been played as level 2, then you can rebuild it any way you wish, including changing out items and gear. The exception is anything purchased with prestige points cannot be refunded.

2. If the PC has been played as level 2 or higher, then if you own Ultimate Campaign, you can spend PP and some gold to retrain levels, feats, archetypes, etc.

3 (Extra). Lastly, just to make sure it is noted, you must own a legal source for the new features you are interested in. Legal sources are watermarked PDFs from Paizo with your name on them or the physical book.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Yeah, I did forget about this. I will look at the party make up and decide accordingly later today!

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

I think I'll make my decision based on what the rest of the party have, but all of the PCs I have are melee combatants.

Bargus Highbrew: Qinggong Sensei Drunken Master Ouat monk 4. A constantly half-drunk dwarf ouat who knows that a little alcohol is what is needed to release the body's natural limiters to reach perfection and carries around his own keg to make sure that he can do so whenever it is needed. He can inspire courage and comptenence; he will eventually share his qinggong and monk powers, too. Finally, he has great knowledge skills thanks to his obedience to Irori to hone his mind as well as his liver.

The Scratcher: Snakebite Striker brawler 2/ Warpriest of Milani 1. A street fighter turned to a higher calling, the man known as the Scratcher uses exotic weapons to defend himself and strike at his opponents, disarm them, and strike them again. Simple-minded and direct, he sees himself as working towards becoming the ultimate bodyguard as part of his devotion to Milani.

Iron Feathers: Unbreakable figther 1/Invulnerable Rager unchained barbarian 3. A tengu raised in a shoanti tribe, Iron Feathers explores to show the prowess of his tribal upbringing. He is smart enough to know when to be silent, but doesn't cower to idiots.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Even then it wouldn't work since you have to be able to add your Strength modifier to the damage to allow you to replace it with your Dex mod. Same reason why you can't use Slashing Grace or Finesse Training with an elemental annihilator's devastating infusion attacks.

But otherwise, I am still pro-Unchained Eldritch Scoundrel :)

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

If you don't care about crit threat, the Esoteric magus uses unarmed strikes and 4K for an Agile amulet is cheaper than a weapon initially (and the fact you can use your Arcane Pool to give it enhancement bonuses and can wear light armor with the Brawling propery) really helps offset the lack of making those unarmed strikes magical).

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

Congradulations! A winnerVC is you! :)

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

1 person marked this as a favorite.

My table managed to avoid the final combat and had a very short combat in the Nail. They managed to poison the stew and every guard who ate the stew except 1 succumbed to the poison. That guard screamed and was quickly knocked unconscious, but the remaining guard (the one at the entrance since he got the short straw to wait on lunch) happened to roll low enough and missed his Perception...

After spending some time to stage the barracks, the party wasted little time clearing out the majority of the compound, getting the good stuff out the vault, office, and prison successfully, thanks to the party rogue having hot dice and the party expertly solving the puzzle (with compliments on it).

The chase was fun as the party was quite creative causing distractions, including Ferris Bueller'ing the parade, tackling mimes, and summoning a holy octopus.

Despite avoiding massive beatdowns, the players enjoyed themselves.

A+, would run again.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

I be running it tomorrow myself with a group that ran parts 1 and 2. A couple of them are fairly combat oriented so I'm curious if they'll be able to handle a spy mission like this :)

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

May your cake be goblin-free!

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

The pugwampi/vexgit room is basically interact traps. The pugwampis should make sure that the PCs have bad luck so they will almost certainly fail their Reflex save when the vexgits collapse a column in their direction. I nearly dropped 2 PC's from a pair of those. But they do no real damage outside of that for the reasons you stated.

The terrain can hide enemies in some situations, like in the jungle, but otherwise it's just flavor.

For the elemental room, I have used the lightning spark ability of the lightning elemental to bring them down where the mud elementals are. They have to move up the stairs since those are not soft earth.

The adaro, I don't penalize piercing weapons and gave partial cover from slashing/bludgeoning weapons. A slight variation from the underwater rules.

For the Mouther, I have it ooze from underside the walkway about 20' from the players, so at least it isn't too far away and may be able to charge something. The walkway acts as something of a chokepoint which is arguably its best defense.

One idea that someone gave me that I've used is to make the helmet a speaking tourguide provided by Melabdara. That way, someone can describe the rooms and gives the PCs a chance to interact with the sphinx before actually engaging it. Because of Nhur Athemon's choice of languages, Azlanti, Elven, and Infernal would make sense for the sphinx to know as being learned from its master.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

Favorite raise dead story (spoilered for the scenario).

From Rivalry's End:

I had a PC at the table I GM'ed die from a halberd crit while tanking three of clockwork guardians, giving the party enough time to defeat them. Since the PC went from full health to death in a single hit, I declared that she was decapitated.

The party, realizing that they need her back, found a way to smuggle her body upstairs without anyone knowing. The head was placed in a handy haversack, and they used the dust of illusion they found to drape the body over one of the other PCs and make it look like a bearskin cape. They managed to schmooze their way upstairs, although not without one of the people at the gambling den commenting on the 'lovely cloak'.

From there, they went to the Publican House and contacted Guaril to find a priest there who would discretely raise the slain PC back. The dead PC had enough prestige for the raise dead and one of the restorations, and the party was back with nearly full strength.

The now-returned PC decided to wear a choker to cover her new scar.

And that's how I had a good in-game raise dead. The party did a great job RP'ing it and it is truly one of my most memorable tables I ever GM'ed.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

Ahh, so you are comparing spells to ki pool, correct? Just want to make sure I have this correct.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

Accomplished Sneak Attacker, from Dirty Tactics Toolbox.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

BNW, can you explain the ninja large ki pool issue as compared to the Unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel? I do not understand what you and Chess Pwn are referring to and I want to understand your argument correctly.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Honestly, I don't know how it could be written for core rogues only. As I noted above, a core rogue is incredibly underpowered as an Eldritch Scoundrel. In fact, a core rogue Eldritch Scoundrel is only a couple steps above the adept NPC class for the first 2 levels.

As far as dipping: three level is a heavy dip for most classes/builds. Compared to dipping three into a base unchained rogue, the trade-offs would be around 4 level 1 spells per day, the cantrips, and trap spotter for magical traps versus 1d6 sneak attack, a rogue talent of your choosing, and 12 skill ranks. While the magical potential should be noted, it's comparable to a 2 level dip into fighter to get the bonus feats for Dervish Dance and a single level dip into wizard.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

11 people marked this as a favorite.

I would like to request that the unchained rogue be legally allowed to use the Eldritch Scoundrel archetype from Arcane Anthologies in PFS play.

Caveat: If the allowing the archetype for the unchained rogue is being reserved as a chronicle or boon reward, then see this a post of love for a cool, flavorful archetype.

Using Jiggy's excellent post that got Magical Knack legalized as the basis of the post and noting the copied premises below.

Premise: An option is banned only if it conflicts with the nature or goals of the campaign (unless it is reserved as a boon reward for later).
Premise: An unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel does not conflict with the nature or goals of the campaign.
Premise: The power increase of an unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel to a core rogue Eldritch Scoundrel is not greater than the power increase of an unchained rogue to core rogue for other archetypes.
Premise: The unchained rogue is not overpowered compared to other similar classes.
Conclusion: The unchained rogue should be allowed to take the Eldritch Scoundrel archetype.

-------------------------------

Reasoning:

Premise #1:

Note, this is almost exactly what Jiggy posted nearly 3 years ago and noting that I am using his words here.
As I see it, there are two ways of looking at content legality in PFS.

One method is that nothing outside the Core Assumption is allowed, unless it appears to specifically benefit the campaign. That is, when a new book comes out, we "start" with everything banned, and then Mike looks through it and sees something and says "Hey, X would make the campaign better" and makes an exception for it (i.e., legalize it).

The other method is that new content is generally legal, unless it appears to specifically hurt the campaign. That is, when a new book comes out, we "start" with an assumption that its content will be legal, and then the OPC/PFS developers looks through it and sees something and says "Hey, X would cause problems with the campaign" and makes an exception for it (i.e., ban it).

It is my understanding that the latter is the stance of PFS leadership, hence Premise #1.

Premise #2:

This section is also nearly word from word of Jiggy's argument, but repeating it as I believe this to be true for the Deep Marshall.
I am not aware of any aspect of the campaign with which an unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel conflicts.
It does not directly affect wealth.
It does not invite unregulated customization.
It does not skirt alignment restrictions.
It does not slow down gameplay.
It does not have canon issues.
It does not skirt PvP rules.

I contend that this is not the case. In fact, it cannot be this case because the Eldritch Scoundrel is legal for core rogues, and unchained rogues are legal, too, which means that both of the base parts do not conflict with the campaign system.

Thus, I contend that an unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel does not conflict with any aspect of the campaign.

Premise #3:

If the unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel is to be considered overpowered over a core rogue Eldritch Scoundrel, then the comparison must be made across other archetypes using an unchained rogue vs core rogue.
Note: I am not good at number theory crafting, so this will be a bit more subjective than I prefer.

What an unchained rogue offers
The easy part of the comparison is that the unchained version of the rogue nearly just adds or improves the core rogue abilities. There is some contention of the rogue tricks list for an unchained rogue; while I believe the unchained one is superior, the fact that it misses some recently added rogue tricks is noteworthy. Here is what is added in base abilities:

  • Finesse Training (new): This single ability allows the unchained rogue greater combat ability by granting free weapon finesse and eventually Dex for damage for a weapon of the unchained rogue's choice.
  • Sneak Attack (improved): While the core rogue has it, the wording for the unchained rogue works better as concealment no longer prevents sneak attack (total concealment still does).
  • Rogue Talents (revised): Many core rogue talents were replaced, some new ones added, some removed for unchained rogue use, and others left unchanged and legal for unchained rogue use. Overall, I believe that the updated talents are an improvement over the core rogue talents (powerful sneak/deadly sneak, minor/major magic, and resiliency come to mind).
  • Danger Sense (improved): A slightly improved version of trap sense and counts as trap sense for archetypes and prerequisites.
  • Debilitating Injury (new): Another radical new ability that allows the unchained rogue her choice of scaling debuffs to apply when sneak attacking.
  • Rogue's Edge (new): The last unique ability to unchained rogues is the ability to use the skill unlocks listed in Pathfinder Unchained. It scales slowly and in PFS, an unchained rogue will only unlock 2 skills in her normal career.

Listed here, there are three brand new abilities unchained rogues have over core rogues. As of the time of this post, there are not any rogue archetypes that replace these abilities. That means every single unchained rogue with an archetype will have those abilities over a core rogue with the same archetype. Since the unchained rogue is legal for those other archetypes, then it must be assumed that those abilities are not overpowered. Which means that if the unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel is to be considered too overpowered compared to a core rogue Eldritch Scoundrel, it must be one of the three remaining ability updates: sneak attack, rogue talents, and danger sense.

However, the Eldritch Scoundrel archetype affects all three of those abilities! The sneak attack and rogue talents are effectively cut in half and don't come online until level 3 and 4 respectively. If the unchained rogue's sneak attack and talents are deemed superior to the core rogues, the archetype actually affects the unchained rogue more negatively than the core rogue by restricting the more powerful abilities! Meanwhile, danger sense is replaced by a special magic only version of trap spotter. Again, replacing the (slightly) superior danger sense for the unchained rogue technically affects the unchained rogue more than the core rogue.

Thus, I conclude that the unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel is not vastly overpowered to the core rogue Eldritch Scoundrel as compared to other rogue archetypes that are legal for both the unchained rogue and core rogue.

Premise #4:

The only other reason why the unchained rogue would be banned is if it was considered overpowered to other classes. As the comparison to rogues has already been made, I'll go with two other classes that will be most similar to it: wizard and magus. As noted before, I am not a theory crafter and some points may be more subjective than I prefer, but please bear with the arguments.

Unchained Rogue Eldritch Scoundrel vs base wizard (no archetypes)
At level one, the unchained rogue will have the following class abilities/features over the wizard.

  • 2 more skill points per level. Higher compared to a wizard, but worse than a rogue without an archetype.
  • Higher HP: Always meaningful at the low levels.
  • Better weapon proficiencies: While the wizard can only use five weapons, all simple weapons and a few specialty weapons are at your disposal.
  • Finesse training: Free weapon finesse at level 1.
  • Trapfinding: Bonus on finding and removing traps and can remove magical ones looking at you explosive runes.

Meanwhile, the wizard has over the Eldritch Scoundrel:

  • School powers: These vary by the specialized school, but it will vary from minor defensive buffs to some offensive abilities to supplant the low level spellcasting. In either case, it's another option for a wizard besides 'cast a spell' and 'hit things with a stick'. Also, unless you go universalist wizard, this means an extra spell per day, too, all at the cost of making some spells harder to cast.
  • Free Spell Focus feat: From PFS rules, it replaces the Scribe Scroll feat you would gain, making your spells of choice harder to resist.
  • Arcane bond: You get your choice of cool little intelligent companion that grants some passive buffs or the ability to get an extra spell cast per day.

Same between the two classes:

  • Armor proficiency: Neither one can wear armor without risking arcane spell failure, nor have proficiency in any armor.
  • Base spellcasting ability: Both classes can only cast a base single level 1 spell without having an high intelligence. Of course, a wizard can increase that based on school choice and arcane bond choice, but ignoring those abilities, both classes cast the same base number of spells from levels 1-2.
  • Same starting initial BAB progression: From levels 1-2, both classes will have the same BAB score.

Comparing the two classes, the eldritch scoundrel will have more melee options thanks to finesse training, while the wizard can get more magical abilities and potentially more spellcasting.

Jumping to level 3, both classes begin to diverge greatly. The unchained Eldritch Scoundrel will get a far greater melee ability with another BAB increase, sneak attack, dexerity modifier to damage for a weapon of her choice, and effectively trap spotting for magical traps and 1 more level 1 spell/day over the base wizard spellcasting.

Meanwhile, the wizard will hit level 2 spellcasting. It doesn't seem like much as a single line, but the wizard will add 1-3 spells per day he can cast, at a minimum equaling the total number of spells per day as the Eldritch Scoundrel and more than likely being superior and that is not even counting the new spell options granted to the wizard. At this point, trade off between the two is melee options for the Eldritch Scoundrel for more powerful spells.

Level 4 is where the Eldritch Scoundrel arguably sees a power increase over a wizard. The Scoundrel now gets his level 2 spells, albeit wizard base spellcasting will have at least 1 more level 2 spell over the Eldritch Scoundrel. The Scoundrel, though, will get Debilitating Injury for a nice melee debuff and now get her first rogue talent for more supporting options.

But at level 5, the wizard takes the reigns once more and holds onto them for the rest of their career. The unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel will still have 1 more BAB over the wizard, more HP, and now gain a Skill Unlock, but the wizard gets 3rd level magic while the rogue will have to wait another 2 levels for such power wherein the wizard will be touting 4th level magic. And as a bit of extra icing on the cake, the wizard also gets a bonus feat, too (which could arguably be seen as equal to the Skill Unlock the unchained Eldritch Scoundrel gets).

Thus, I believe that the two classes are somewhat equal at low levels before the wizard's greater spellcasting ability will significantly overshadow what the unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel can do. The Eldritch Scoundrel will have better melee abilities than the wizard to make up for the weaker spellcasting.

Unchained Rogue Eldritch Scoundrel vs base magus
The comparison here will be easier to account as both use the same spellcasting progression and have the same HD and BAB increase. Thus, looking at the initial abilities at level 1

unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel over base magus

  • More skill points: Same as the wizard, the Eldritch Scoundrel will enjoy 2 more skill points over the magus.
  • Finesse Training: Free weapon finesse and eventual Dex to damage.
  • Trapfinding: To find and remove those hard to get to traps, including magical ones.

Base magus over unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel

  • Better saves: The magus has 2 high saves versus the rogue's single.
  • Better armor profiencies: Can wear light armor and cast spells in it, too.
  • Better weapon proficiencies: All martial weapons encompasses what the rogue can use and then some.
  • Arcane pool: A scaling buff to the magus' weapon
  • Spell combat: Two weapon fighting where one of the weapons is a spell.

Comparable between the two classes:

  • Spell list: The magus has a smaller spell list, but has plenty of solid offensive spells and will get some spells at a lower spell level as compared to when the Eldritch Scoundrel will get it. The Eldritch Scoundrel, though, will have a far wider spell selection at her disposal.

In this case, at level 1, the magus is more melee suitable with better weapon and armor choices as well as the ability to buff the weapon right at the get go. The magus will have spell combat, but the accuracy hit at level 1 is noteworthy. The Eldritch Scoundrel has more skill options and gets a bonus feat effectively. At level 1, I call it a wash between the two classes.

At level 2, the magus is superior offensively with spellstrike being added. The Eldritch Scoundrel only gets evasion. Magus is superior at this point.

Level 3, it balances out with the unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel now having Dex to Damage and sneak attack while the magus gets his first magus arcana to enhance his abilities. These vary, but effectively, I see the two classes as closer to equal at level 3.

Level 4 is similar as the unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel gets Debilitating Injury as a debuff and her first rogue talent while the magus gets Spell Recall to improve his spellcasting potential.

From this point on, the magus slowly gets more unique abilities while the unchained rogue only gets a skill unlock for something unique. The magus offensive power goes up with the arcane pool becoming more powerful, heavier armor potential, and bonus feats while the unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel will just add to the sneak attack dice and rogue talents.

Overall, while I see the magus as somewhat superior offensively due to spellstrike and better defenses, the Eldritch Scoundrel has more passive abilities that will remain useful if spellcasting is not an option. The Eldritch Scoundrel will also have a better choice of spells to choose from as well.

Note: It should be mentioned that in fact a core rogue eldritch scoundrel would be incredibly underpowered compared to a core rogue without an archetype at levels 1 and 2. It would be an inferior wizard or magus without any other class abilities excepts casting 1-2 level 1 spells and some cantrips. Even at level 2, the only thing gained would be evasion (a passive, defensive abilitiy) and another level 1 spell, making it far weaker than the wizard in spell potential, having the same BAB as the wizard, the lack of school powers, and the lack of an arcane bond. Compared to the magus, the magus is better armored, and will have spellstrike and spell combat come online at that point as well as the arcane pool ability to enhance his weapons. And without the unchained rogue abilities that keep the Eldritch Scoundrel capable compared to those two classes, the core rogue Eldritch Scoundrel is markedly inferior.

Thus, comparing the unchained rogue Eldritch Scoundrel to a base wizard and base magus, I contend that it is not overpowered compared to the other two classes.

With all those premises made, I conclude that the Eldritch Scoundrel should be a legal archetype for the unchained rogue to take.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

8 people marked this as a favorite.

I would like to request that the Deep Marshal magus archetype from Arcane Anthologies become legal for PFS play.

Caveat: If the archetype is being reserved as a chronicle or boon reward, then see this a post of love for a cool, flavorful archetype.

Using Jiggy's excellent post that got Magical Knack legalized as the basis of the post and noting the copied premises below.

Premise: An option is banned only if it conflicts with the nature or goals of the campaign (unless it is reserved as a boon reward for later).
Premise: Deep Marshal does not conflict with the nature or goals of the campaign.
Premise: Deep Marshal is not overpowering or identified as a must have that will override other magus options.
Conclusion: Deep Marshal should not be banned.

-------------------------------

Reasoning:
Premise #1:
Note, this is almost exactly what Jiggy posted nearly 3 years ago and noting that I am using his words here.
As I see it, there are two ways of looking at content legality in PFS.

One method is that nothing outside the Core Assumption is allowed, unless it appears to specifically benefit the campaign. That is, when a new book comes out, we "start" with everything banned, and then Mike looks through it and sees something and says "Hey, X would make the campaign better" and makes an exception for it (i.e., legalize it).

The other method is that new content is generally legal, unless it appears to specifically hurt the campaign. That is, when a new book comes out, we "start" with an assumption that its content will be legal, and then the OPC/PFS developers looks through it and sees something and says "Hey, X would cause problems with the campaign" and makes an exception for it (i.e., ban it).

It is my understanding that the latter is the stance of PFS leadership, hence Premise #1.

Premise #2:
This section is also nearly word from word of Jiggy's argument, but repeating it as I believe this to be true for the Deep Marshall.
I am not aware of any aspect of the campaign with which Deep Marshal conflicts.
It does not directly affect wealth.
It does not invite unregulated customization.
It does not skirt alignment restrictions.
It does not slow down gameplay.
It does not have canon issues.
It does not skirt PvP rules.

I contend that this is not the case.

The one point that the Deep Marshal affects wealth is that at level 3, it grants free ranks in Profession: Miner which can be used for Day Job checks. However, even with good boons, this doesn't add up to a lot of gold over the standard PFS career. Assuming a solid 25 for the Day Job check for 50 gold a session, playing normal progression, and only playing 1XP scenarios or modules, that is only about 1,350 gold between the beginning of 3rd level to level 12.

Thus, I contend that Deep Marshal does not conflict with any aspect of the campaign.

Premise #3:
If the Deep Marshal is to be considered overpowered, then it needs to be compared to the base magus.
Note: I am not good at number theory crafting, so this will be a bit more subjective than I prefer.

Deep Marshal vs base magus

Pros over base magus

  • base medium armor access and gets heavy armor access far sooner than the base magus.
  • At 3rd level, gets 1/2 the enhancement bonus to caster level while wielding dwarven themed weapons or the full bonus to overcome SR checks.
  • At 3rd level, gets bonus ranks in Knowledge: Dungeoneering and Profession: Miner and uses the Intelligence modifier instead of Wisdom modifier for the Profession: Miner.

Cons under base magus
  • Can only use dwarven themed weapons for the three core magus abilities: arcane pool, spellstrike, and spellcombat. Note that these weapons do not work very well for burst spell strikes due to the low crit threat range as compared to other popular magus weapons (rapiers, scimitars, etc.)
  • Gets less arcane pool points compared to the base magus at 1/3 magus level + Int modifier instead of 1/2 magus level + Int modifier. Over a standard PFS career, this accounts for 2 fewer arcane pool points by level 12.
  • Does not get a magus arcana until level six as the ability that replaces the first arcana at level 3 isn't an arcana itself, so the magus arcana class feature does not exist yet. This also means FCB that add magus arcana or feats to add more magus arcana cannot be selected until over halfway through a deep marshall's career.

Even comapred with base magus
  • Adds some wizard crafting, earth-themed, and abjuration spells to the magus spell while losing enchantment, illusion, or necromancy spell capabilities. I see this as even as the useful spells lost are arguably even with the useful spells gained.

To me, it seems somewhat even. The deep marshal has more defensive options between better armor earlier than the base magus and gets abjuration spells for other options I admit this is subjective, and depending on playstyles, this may be more or less point of contention. Offensively, the weapon selection is more restricted, but this is balanced by the potential caster level increase and bonus to spell resistance checks. The base magus, meanwhile, can use any weapon he/she feels like using and can more often get spellstrike crits using the higher crit range weapons that the Deep Marshall cannot use.

One thing that should be noted is that the caster level increase can never exceed +2 as the caster level increase is 1/2 the weapon's enhancement bonus and weapon enhancements cannot exceed +5. This also means that the weapon needs to have a +4 modifier to get the +2 CL boost. The absolute earliest this could occur would be level 5 as it would require using a +2 enhancement bonus via arcane pool and having a +2 weapon which requires 27 fame, with level 5 being the earliest that can occur. That will eat up about half a PC's wealth in most cases. The most obvious benefit will come from spells enhanced by Intensify Spell or those few spells that provide additional rounds/effects based on level (acid arrow and scorching ray come to mind).

Thus, I conclude that the Deep Marshall should be made for PFS play. The archetype trade-offs are fairly even and it does not disrupt the campaign setting or organized play rules.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Black Powder Chocobo wrote:
One cool thing is that an Unchained Eldritch Scoundrel can get into Arcane Trickster at 5th level; just need to make your 3rd level feat "Accomplished Sneak Attacker" at 4th level, if you put in the skill points correctly, you can start 5th level as a Trickster, the earliest legal way to get into any prestige class.

You can also do, and indeed are better off doing, this as a Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster X.

Combining Eldritch Scoundrel and Arcane Trickster just isn't that good an idea.

Spellcasting-wise, yes. Getting those wizard spells is powerful.

However, there is a bit of novelty being able to get into a prestige class like that without multiclassing. There's also the fact that for Arcane Tricksters who want more melee options, getting Dex to Damage and Debilitating Strike for the sneak attacks is pretty cool. I know the power play would be to not do that and go with the route you suggested, but I still believe you could be quiet effective with a sole Unchained Eldritch Scoundrel to Arcane Trickster.

Caveat: Not for PFS while Unchained Rogues are banned from this :P

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

One cool thing is that an Unchained Eldritch Scoundrel can get into Arcane Trickster at 5th level; just need to make your 3rd level feat "Accomplished Sneak Attacker" at 4th level, if you put in the skill points correctly, you can start 5th level as a Trickster, the earliest legal way to get into any prestige class.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

@Eric: I played it low tier using a brand new guntank gunslinger. First turn, closed in, fired a single musket shot and rolled a Nat 20 and a Nat 19 to confirm. GM botched the light fort roll and dealt enough damage to kill him outright.

We were running behind, so the GM was a bit shocked, but didn't mind in the fnd.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

I believe BNW's interpretation is corrwct. The trick is that you apply chronicles one at a time, so when you finally build your GM credit PC, you apply the first scaled down chronicle and you are level 2. That would then make you ineligible to apply a second scaled down chronicle as the PC isn't level 1.

The idea of a couple of scenarios (especially evergreens), then a scaled down module chronicle will nearly get you there as BNW suggested.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

Yeah, some tactics don't make sense optimally sometimes,but some of those times may be for balance (First Steps pt1), although some are just poorly thought out. Unless the PCS invalidate the tactics, then let it go and know the guy probably won't ray things for a few rounds.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

When I ran it, the player followed Joliryn and after she got the information, the player got to use his namesake Prestige Class. It was efficient, brutal, and evil... quite appropriate for the character.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Thanks Chris!

@Bardic Beacon: Check out the new link that Chris posted. They got some more hardware to help with the personalization process to hopefully get things going smoother over the weekend.

I see this as a lesson learned by Paizo, and I think that you and they will be better off (Paizo for having a better idea on how to prepare for an outpouring of orders in such a short timeframe and yourself for getting a bunch of great books at an amazing price)!

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

First, you need to redeem the code from Humble Bundle using Paizo's Humble Bundle redemption page.

If you don't have a Paizo account, you'll need to create one. Otherwise, just log in!

After that, you can take one of the redemption codes from your Humble Bundle page and enter it in the Humble Bundle Redemption Code textbox. Type or copy/paste the code in that box, then click on the Redeem button. The page will eventually refresh and state what products were added to your account from the code.

After you're done entering codes, go to the My Downloads page and download your PDFs!

The downside is that due to all of the orders coming in, the downloads are going really slowly, if at all. Just be patient and you'll have your PDF goodness!

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Thunderstealer tries to spear the crab thing, but its shell proves that the druid has a horsechopper, not crabcracker.

Nilfyr!

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

@kinevon: Just to be clear, sleep is a 1 round spell, not full-round. A full-round spell wouldn't spill over into another turn as the 1 round spell would. Otherwise, I do agree with your assessment.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

I'll join the bandwagon!

Lots of PCs:

Koraq Silverclaw- Urban Barbarian 1/Martial Artist Monk 10/Blood Conduit Bloodrager 1.
The barbarian dip was for a level 1 Power Attack and the rage to boost for Strength as I was going for a Dragon Style monk and to play as the then single way to have a barbarian monk that was legal. The bloodrager dip was for the ability to use some arcane wands (for mage armor) and add more (blood)rage rounds.

Cadaeacus: Separatist Cleric of Pharasma 5/Envoy of Balance 1
Multiclass for the prestige (class). Then I will channel ALL the things!

Cornelius Bunbury: Oath of Charity Hospitalier Paladin 8
Single class for all the heals!

Oriandor Coronalis: Magus 3/Unchained Rogue 3
Mutliclass going for Arcane Trickster

Turk Thundershield: Guntank Gunslinger 10
Single class meatshield of a ranged combatant. Uses Vital Strike to minimize ammunition costs.

Telemachus of the Dawn Eagle: Divine Hunter 5
Going solely hunter so the holy bear AC doesn't get nerfed.

Ash Crane: Elemental Ascetic Kineticist 5
Tengu with natural attacks to try and make the most of the otherwise challenging archetype.

Saitama: Iroran Paladin 4
The paladin of perfection and beefitude. Had him as Warpriest for the first level, but rebuilt before playing as level after finding the Iroran Paladin archetype.

Havoc: Lore Warden Fighter 1/Card Caster Staff Magus 3
My attempt at a 'gambit-esque' character, needed the fighter level dips to get some necessary feats. I'll be taking 1 more Lore Warden level at CL 5 so I can get Close Quarters Thrower with the cards and not provoke from that, then magus rest of the way. Using Magical Knack to keep the Caster Level up.

Vassago Ilsidore: Unbreakable Soul Kineticist 4
Going single class because who wants to nerf that sweet kinetic blast damage. Next level will get Weapon Finesse and Kinetic Blade to finally be a switch hitter. Also has the Charisma and class skills to be back up face.

Bargus Highbrew: Drunken Qinggong Ouat Sensei Monk 4
A strange attempt at a support monk and to a lot of archetypes. Just can't wait when I can share barkskin and provide other benefits from the Sensei.

The Scratcher: Snakebite Striker Brawler 2/Warpriest 1
Inspired by someone's post of creating 'The Shredder', needed the brawler levels to get proficiency with the tekko-kagi, the ability to flurry with them, and the Brawler's Cunning for Combat Expertise and eventually Improved Disarm. Made him before Dirty Tactics Toolbox came out, so I may retrain Combat Expertise into Dirty Fighting.

Iron Feathers: Invulnerable Rager Unchained Barbarian 2/Unbreakable Fighter 1
Needed the Unbreakable fighter dip for Diehard and Endurance, feats required for Stalwart. Went Tengu with claws so I count as having Imp Unarmed Strike for prequisites so I can go Crane Style and eventually rock a massive DR starting at level 5. Rest of my levels are going towards IR Barbarian.

Sritaro: Mad Dog Barbarian 3
Staying solo class so the AC doesn't get nerfed... but the idea of eventually having a raging T-rex will be nice. Just gotta survive to level 7.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

After a near ill fated scenario, I will no longer combo stinking cloud and black tentacles.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The Amulet is the most straightforward.


  • A Belt of Giant Strength to enhance the Strength score will come in handy.
  • Monk's Robes will increase the unarmed strike damage die and boost your AC
  • Deliquescent Gloves will give that hand's attacks the corrosive property for an extra 1d6 acid damage. It'll also give you benefits fighting oozes without harming yourself. This one is in Ultimate Equipment.

If the monk is going to be Strength-based, I'd also suggest going the Dragon Style route for an extra 50% Strength mod to your unarmed strikes; or 2x your Strength mod for the first attack. Being able to charge through allies/difficult terrain is icing on the cake.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Plus side, brawling armor works great for brawlers! There's a few archetypes that can make it work, too (Iroran Paladin, Unarmed Fighter, Esoteric Magus, etc.).

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

Of the PC deaths at tables I ran...

1. Crit from a halberd. Took the monk tank from full HP to dead instantly. However, the monk tanked long enough for the party to finally take down the enemies with no further damage. Party then had to smuggle the monk's body out of the area they weren't supposed to be in, get the Raise Dead and restorations, then sneak back into the place. They pulled it off and continued with no other problems. Still my favorite PC kill from the great and incentive RP that followed, including using dust of illusion to make the monk's body look like a fur cloak while walking around town looking for a cleric.

2. Bonekeep 1 wipe on high tier led to s near TPK. Only a ninja who vanished and the paladin's mount escaped.

3. Had a severely wounded PC die from the end effect of Weapon in the Rift. Luckily she just bought first aid gloves so the party quickly put them on and saved her with a breath of life.

4. 3 PCs dead from the final battle of a certain hard mode 7-11. Only a lucky double crit from a scythe wielding Hellknight prevented total party kill.

5. Part 2 of Eyes of the Ten. Took a ninja/barbarian so far into negatives it took 3 breath of lifes to save him.

Good times...

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

I'd definitely suggest at least getting Improved Critical, which you can do with one of your monk bonus feats at least :)

For AC, you'll have to do a few tricks; a wand of mage armor will help, and keep a couple potions of mage armor just in case there isn't an arcane caster. Likewise, still keep some Dex and keep your Wisdom up. Finally, make sure to use the Ki Power - Qinggong Power and get the Barkskin SLA to boost your natural armor on your own; this also covers the fact that you'll want an amulet of mighty fists instead of an amulet of natural armor. Finally, if you go Crane Style, you can get a +3 to +4 AC boost for only a -2 penalty to attack rolls, but with an Unchained Monk, the accuracy penalty doesn't hurt as much. An alternative would be Snapping Turtle Style which only grants a +1 shield bonus, but no attack penalty. Taking the subsequent feats increases the shield bonus to +2 and makes you harder to crit on top of being able to try and grapple a foe that attacked you.

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

I was wondering the same thing. I was surprised when I saw the Hamatulatsu Master arhcetype go through when the feat wasn't. I'll put a vote for makign it legal.

Of course, I'm a fan of anything cool for monks, but that's me :)

Lantern Lodge ***** RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16 aka Black Powder Chocobo

I just started this as a PbP and it has elements that remind me of a stricter investigation scenario, Scars of the Third Crusade. I am grateful it doesn't use those rules, though, although I do wonder about all of the speak with plants stuff mentioned above. Here's hoping to a creative party, but at least PbP I'm not hurting for a time limit and I think I can have some fun with the party Mercy's rules at least :)

Good catch about the Robori derail; I'll watch for that when the players get there.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I would like to know how Vital Strike works, if at all, in the unusual situation listed in the title.

From the latest errata in Ultimate Combat, it is an attack action to simultaneously fire both barrels of a double-barreled musket. Likewise, the wording of Vital Strike is 'When using an attack action...', so Vital Strike should be usable with the double-barrel fire attack action. However, Vital Strike then states that using it is a single attack at your highest base attack bonus.

This takes some weird turns in that there are three ways this can pan out:

1. Vital Strike cannot be applied in this situation as Vital Strike specifically claims that it must be a single attack and firing both barrels with the attack action produces two attacks.

2. Vital Strike applies, but only to one of the attacks as Vital Strike states that one attack deals additional damage.

3. Vital Strike applies to both attacks as Vital Strike was printed before methods of getting multiple attacks using the attack action did not exist and the feat needs to be 'modernized' to account for new features (much like the Spell Mastery FAQ).

RAW, 1 and 2 are the strongest contenders as option 3 doesn't work RAW and requires an update to the Vital Strike feat to work, but it is a possible solution to this conundrum if Vital Strike is to work with all attack actions.

Thank you for reviewing this and I look forward to a possible PDT response.

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