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Goblin Squad Member. Adventure Path Charter Subscriber. 366 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I have a real problem with the map of area F. Alaznist's Armory on page 22.

The Churlwood map on the same page show the locations of areas B, C, D, and E in relation to Roderic's Cove. We know that area B, Hallen's Ferry is 5 miles from Roderic's Cove. Using a ruler, that makes area D. Bramblewood Den about 3 miles from E. Stonehouse Camp.

However, D5 (Bramblewood Den map) states the tunnel exiting to the east goes south for 100 feet before opening to area F1 (Alaznist's Armory map). Ok... but area E6 (Stonehouse Camp map) spirals directly down to F11 (Alaznist's Armory map).

That makes F1 and F11 approximately 3 miles apart if the Churlwood map is accurate. Which is it clearly not by looking at the Alaznist's Armory map. There is nothing on the map to indicate the western part of the Armory map is geographically separated from the eastern part of the map. The collapsed west-east tunnel almost directly below F7 has no symbols or text to imply that 5-10 foot tunnel collapse actually is 3 miles wide and most people will simply consider it a collapsed tunnel of 5 to 10 ft dimensions. That may satisfy most people to retcon the paradox the way I have...that 5-10 feet of collapse is actually 3 miles, or some powerful ancient magic makes it that people using the passage from D5 and the stairs from E6 down some 80 feet to think just that but in reality, they travelled 3 miles somehow.

Because the Bramblewood Den and the Stonehouse Camp simply can't be co-located side by side... the Churlwood map makes it clear the two locations are separated.

Any comment from Adam Daigle to how best to resolve this?


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Arcadia!! Yesss!! *fist pump*


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Having played and DMed since 1974, one tends to see it all. For the most part, 95% of the players and DMs have been fine. A few rough edges sometimes but otherwise fine.

But I have had the occasional 'nugget' to enliven my game sessions. Like the player who was repeatedly told by the other players to stop charging into every combat before the rest of the party acted and allow the spellcasters to soften up the opposition first or who would attack every NPC we met. Despite repeated warnings, my wizard had enough and would fireball the group of enemies this guy would charge into. And if I couldn't finesse the targeting to exclude him, I would include him in the fireball radius. He rage-quit after I had killed him with friendly fire a few times, despite my repeated warnings not to charge into the room first because I will be dropping a fireball into the room on my turn.

Or the DM who was so enamored with the Deck of Many Things that the exit of every dungeon level required us to pull from a Deck of Many Things. Every..Single..Dungeon..Level...

Or the socially inept or anti-social player who would have an issue with the girl at the table, or the visible ethnic minority at the table and then would proceed to in-game or out of game to sexually harass or show racial bias against said individuals. Always grounds for a quick kick to the curb.

Or the rager types, who upon having their character die or if they didn't get their way or had a string of bad luck, would throw their books and dice all over the room or at people in a fit of rage.

Or the individual who wants the game to be all about them and the rest of the players are the 'supporting cast' with that individual the 'star' of the show. And is indignate if the other players don't go along.

Still, the problem children have been a very clear minority in 40+ year of playing for me. Which is a remarkable record when I consider the number of campaigns I have played or DMed over those decades.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

For your players, it most likely will be a meaningless distinction. If the end result is orcs killing farming families and taking or burning villages, it doesn't matter the reason behind the 'invasion'. Unjust action will be met with reaction.

If I was in your campaign, my response to the reveal would be somewhere between "Interesting. So once we defeat the orcs, we got a bigger threat to deal with." to "So these orcs are refugees? Tell that to dead Farmer Jeb, his wife and three daughters." In short, don't be surprised if your players' response is "so what? - they came killing and pillaging. We will deal with them and then deal with the bigger threat later."


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I would say more pragmatic than evil. To the cannibals, you are a 'food' source. A captured cannibal is a useful 'tool'.
And if your cleric of Shelyn wants to stand on principal, that is fine. I expect you to stand at the front of the party as the point man then.
Problem solved.

But, seriously, it is easy to make a push device with bamboo and wood that would reveal pit traps and set off trip wires and snares. Or avoid the well travelled paths and stick to cross country. Think outside the box. There is plenty of options that can come to mind.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I've played or DMed continually since the brown books when I started in 1974.

I estimate that represents about 75 campaigns. Out of the estimated 75, about 55 of them went to Level 20. The rest of them went to 17th to 18th level. So all went to high level if you consider 15th level and up as high level.

Which, judging from the comments so far in this thread, makes me a very, very small minority.


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Some of my dirty secrets....

I once ran an entire D&D 2nd edition campaign for 13 months with nothing more than one index card filled with the plot line. All the encounters were made up on the spot. Players loved the campaign and never knew that I winged the whole thing for the entire campaign.

This one, I feel somewhat bad for in hindsight. I hate Kender. Or more correctly, I hated how my players played Kender as disruptive, klepto sociopaths. So in my Dragonlance campaign, it was odd how no Kender character survived more than a few game sessions when I DMed. Odd that. <wink>

When I played face to face, I had a DM screen with the back covered with small skull decals, one for every character I killed. Players called it my 'Kill Board'. Now before everyone gets judgemental, my players liked it. They could tell the story about a particular decal and how that character met his/her fate and it was a constant reminder that dumb and questionable and not well thought out actions had serious consequences.


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During our Skull & Shackles campaign, towards the end, my druid's animal troupe consisted of:

2 Triceratopses
12 Pteranodons
1 Giant Anaconda
2 Spinosarus
1 Tylosaurus
2 Megolodon Sharks

Most of which were acquired from the Island of Empty Eyes.

Our ship was modded with a carrier deck for the Pteranodon 'squadron' while the Tylosaurus and Meglodons were our subsurface escort group.

My DM said he was okay with all the animals but I suspected he was irked by it.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Here is a workaround that worked for me for getting items from Your Downloads.

Go to the product page of the item you previously ordered.

In the middle of the screen is information about your purchase (like the date ordered) In there is a "Click here to see download you have for your product" Click on that. It will bring up the download link for that product. That link should work and download that product for you.

I tried it three times - twice for two items I ordered today and it worked both times. And once to see if I can access older stuff in My Downloads so I picked a product I ordered three years ago. That worked as well.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Here is a workaround that worked for me for getting items from Your Downloads.

Go to the product page of the item you previously ordered.

In the middle of the screen is information about your purchase (like the date ordered) In there is a "Click here to see download you have for your product" Click on that. It will bring up the download link for that product. That link should work and download that product for you.

I tried it three times - twice for two items I ordered today and it worked both times. And once to see if I can access older stuff in My Downloads so I picked a product I ordered three years ago. That worked as well.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Let see... Thinking back over the last 10-15 years, our group has done

Japanese/Chinese like campaign

Persian flavored campaign

Egyptian themed campaign

Steampunk like campaign

Sci-Fi like campaign

Planeswalker type of campaign

Norse/Viking flavored campaign

Pirate campaign

Can't explain anyone else but obvious our group is NOT stuck in a medieval europe fantasy mind set. Current campaign is Hell's Rebels so we are back to a medieval europe fantasy style campaign for the first time in ages.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I wonder if this is a nod to Red Hand of Doom. That mega adventure was quite well received and I remember it fondly when my group did it.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

The truth is, you really can't without getting into 'being a dick' territory, such as:

Make the new character start at 1st level (real dickish)

Make the new characters have to start one level behind the highest player level (less dickish).

The reality is, if the player wants to change characters, they will find a way unless you make the choice an unpalatable one because they lose something in the process, like always being a level behind the others or worst.

The problem also magnifies the party wealth by level problem. The dead character's belongings go into party treasure and unless you insist that new characters come into the game un-geared for their level, party wealth spiral out of control. I have heard of some campaigns where the players deliberately endanger their characters to ensure a very full and well provisioned party treasury.

Giving those characters whose players care a boon may be a better approach to try to solve your issue.

I use hero points, which can be used by the player to re-roll a dice roll or to add a fixed modifier to a roll. Survival earns the player more hero points. New characters start with no hero points, so constantly dying so you can bring in a new character means that player will have very little hero points to influence die rolls for a character they finally are committed to. The advantage of hero points is their very nature mitigates your problem - the players have hero points to help ensure the survival of their characters.

Good luck with your problem. It is a tough one to deal with.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I haven't completely delved into the PDF, but I really like what I see so far.

I have always been a huge fan of shadow magic, so this scratches that itch very nicely.

The only thing missing is what spells could be taken by Non-Paizo character classes. For example, I am a big fan of Wolfgang Baur's Shadowsworn class and the School of Illumination (really big emphasis on shadow magic and big association with the Free City of Zobreck in the Midgard setting).

It is too easy to say everything is available for classes like the Shadowsworn from this wonderful book. Please consider if there is ever a second printing, to include spell list for classes like the Shadowsworn.

Otherwise. Simply outstanding! Thank you so much for doing this one. You have hit it out of the park, IMO.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Your choice of character race will not wreck a bunch of peoples good time unless you play as a total asshat or are a first class jerk.

Character personalities aside, the choice of character very rarely contributes to a 'NOT a good time'. Not a good time usually results from more than one point of failure in a game session. Ego issues around the table, bad decisions agreed to by the party and having the random number god take a dislike to the party are the typical precursors to a 'bad time' or TPK. Not one person's choice of character race.

My advice - play the character you want and have fun and don't sweat the rest.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Reading the item description, my interpretation is that once the item is attuned, it allows one use of 10 minutes duration once activated.

To reuse, it must be attuned again, so - 10 minutes attuning, 10 minutes usage. No limitation on usage per day per se, just the DM and/or players patience for having the attuning process disrupting the adventuring day.

Edit: LazarX is right. I overlooked the at 'start of day', so that means one use per day


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Hmmph. Your DM should take a cheese grater to your 'cheese'.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

My handle is from a reading or discussion that JRR Tolkien did, where he stated that the dwarves of the Iron Hills referred to the Mines of Moria as Black Moria, due to its fell and dangerous reputation.

The avatar was the closest thing I could get to a Balrog at the time when I joined the forums.

Goblin Squad Member

Xaosist wrote:
Any DT accounts currently for sale where you can choose your own character names?

Those would have NO XP since a character has to have a name to earn XP.

None that I am aware though there was someone thinking of listing his account and the DT line on the account info showed '1', which indicates that he has the DT perk but it isn't activated.

This was on the GW forums but I don't think he put it up yet.


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When I first heard about this AP, my reaction was largely negative.

My group doesn't do evil in the usual sense - raping, murdering, burning orphanages to the ground, selling one's mother into servitude, kicking puppies. Absolutely will not fly with them doing evil against good.

Then I thought more on it - what if this AP has a Cheliax civil war for the backdrop? More of a evil fighting evil theme than evil fighting good. That is something I think my players could go for.

And I think that may be where this AP is heading. Hell's Rebels and this AP happening at the same time and Erik Mona's statement that House Thrune may be on the outs with Asmodeus definitely sounds like a setup for a Cheliax civil war breaking out.

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Tigari wrote:
Black Moria, If you can PM me the names. We can't deal with problems if we don't actually know the facts. Golgothans should know not to start pvp around Marchmont. IF the names cannot be provided, I have to assume it did not happen OR you cannot actually claim they were "established" Golgothans. Thank You

PM sent.

Goblin Squad Member

Flynn Pontis wrote:
While I agree with a couple of your points Moria in regards to pvp not having matured, I would very much appreciate you to not insinuate that Golgothans in anyway condone the ganking and killing of new players around Marchmont. We are not murder hobos who kill anything that moves rather we try to do alot of homework on the target. Have we seen them before? Which settlement do they belong to? Have they been gathering in our territory? You wouldn't believe how many times we just let someone go because we are unsure. Yes we might kill a player a couple hexes away from Marchmont time to time but not new players. And I certainly wouldn't classify you as a "new" player either I think you deserve much more credit than that.

I will not name and shame on these forums. This incident happened in the hex directly north of Marchmont and the two individuals were well known Golgothans. One of them is in the leadership of Golgatha. Enough said.

So just how have I mischaracterised this? You are entitled to your opinion but not to your own facts and you were not there. I was and some other player I don't know from jack whispered me not to come back to my husk because one of them was still there as he could see him and the other guy chased him to Marchmont. So witnessed as well.

And several weeks previous, I saw a newbie get ganked by another well established Golgothan (No naming and shaming). I knew he was new because he was talking with others in general about where to get gear, Yada yada. Someone mentioned PFO at Riverbank and told him about it. Some 30 to 45 minutes later, I see him pass me in a hex or two south of Marchmont. He isn't even off my mini map when another player closes on his icon and he is done like dinner. I identified the other player as a known Golgothan hostile and cleared out.

Now, all Golgothans aren't murder hobos. I acknowledge that here and now. But, IMO, there is a few bad apples in that barrel. And what is the saying - If you sleep with dogs, you get fleas.

As to me being a new player - no, not a new player. New character. Answer me this. What exactly is the point for T2+ characters ganking a level 4 wizard in a hex immediately north of Marchmont, if that area is supposedly a 'leave the newbs alone' area. It can't be for the loot. I assume it has to be for the giggles because I don't get it otherwise. Color me confused then.

Goblin Squad Member

I think it will become relevant. And the game will make it 'needed' because the system is making resources the point of friction which will affect everyone.

Right now, there really no incentive for a crafter to consider PvP something of concern because except for the occasional ganking, their resources come in by gatherers who take the risks, they craft away and they or their community profits.

Rather sterile and safe, yes?

Except, once bulk goods and the holding/settlement bits get implemented, a raid on their settlement or outpost will have ramifications with influence, settlement infrastructure gets damage and resources that support most aspects of the settlement are threatened and everyone is at risk at some fashion, due to diminished capacity for training and crafting.

Like it or not, people are going to have to 'take to the field' and 'stand to' to protect those resources and that infrastructure.

Which means medium and large scale battles will be a normal part of every day life. And if you don't have enough personnel or warriors, that means crafter and gatherers are going to have the 'hold the line' on occasion.

That mean most people are going to have to PvP or be more active in supporting the PvP more directly than now (either being scouts, or supply haulers, crafting or repairing equipment or fixing infrastructure.

I see that and acknowledge that part is coming. It will be huge once implemented and it is going to be a rude awaking to most people just how much that new aspect of the game is going to impact their blissful sedate way they are playing the game.

But it is not here yet.

And the rather negative blowback on the questionable 'content' of most of the existing PvP now is a negative impediment to the transition to that 'other'game that is coming.

I AM on your side on this, despite me point out the negatives of PvP in my previous post. I see what is coming and I am preparing for. But cherry picking my argument and offering antedotal counter evidence doesn't not strengthen your argument or change the reality as I see it.

As Adam Savage said in Mythbuster - 'I reject your argument and substitute my own'

My point remains - the PvP up to know as largely been negative to the community, doesn't further your cause or win you any support among the people on the sidelines who aren't already been polarized to either extreme and is an impediment to the mental transition from a game in which PvP is considered somehow 'wrong' to a game in which is will be the norm and a necessity if settlements want to survive once all the bits and pieces are in place.

Goblin Squad Member

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While I applaud your sediment, Savage Grace, the PvP aspect of the game isn't there yet for me to enjoy PvP so I eschew it when I can. Let me speak as one of your 'target' audience.

One on one bandit style ganking isn't my thing, hence I don't participate in that and despite assertions by the PvPers, it doesn't contribute meaningful content to the game IMO and I consider it a poor training tool to learn PvP except within a narrow spectrum of doing one on one battles.

I reject the notion of attacking characters to force the community to the realization that this is a PvP game and to force players to adapt.

Really?

I got jumped by two known Golgothans two days ago. At the time, it was my Level 4 Wizard with T1 + 0 gear. I got jumped by two Golgothans in T2+ gear, which I can recognize as T2+ gear. I lasted all of two seconds as expected.

Just what was I supposed to learn from that?

Get better equipment? Yeah, I didn't need that lesson in brutality to know that this game is about equipment and getting it as soon as one can.

That two on one is bad? Yeah, didn't need to get ganked in two seconds flat to learn that. Any fool knows that 2 on 1 is a bad situation, especially when the two are better equipment, better trained and better tactically situated (ie attacking from surprise)

Learn to PvP? Yeah, that two seconds of me being essentially stun locked into ineffectiveness was a valuable lesson. I essentially couldn't do a damn thing until I was downed, so that two second 'learning' window to PvP. Yeah, valuable. <rolls eyes>

Learn about conditionals? Already knew that. Totally irrelevant in the situation above. Zero time to shake off negative conditionals. Full to dead in two seconds. Just what was I supposed to learn?

What did I take away from experience? That there is a bunch of goons in T2+ armor ganking newbies and low level characters in the six hexes around Marchmont. There is a segment of the PvP crowd that consider that 'meaningful' PvP and that is the problem right there. Those situations become very negative to the community. Since when does two Level 9+ with full T2+ gear attacking by surprise a relatively new 4th level character 'meaningful' in by any metric?

It wasn't meaningful for me in any way. Any 'lessons' about PvP I either knew already or the context of the situation make any 'lesson' totally pointless. There was NO 'meaning' to this PvP at all. It would have been more meaningful for the two goons to square off with each other.

Let me sum it up if the above wasn't clear. They kicked a puppy. Pure and simple. And most people don't like puppy kickers, whether in real life or in a game.

Personally, I joined this game knowing the risks. I don't care if I lost inventory. Part of the game. I lost durability on T1+0 eqipment. Totally inconsequential. I am not anti-PvP per se but lets just say that the my experience from the other night was not positive to me in any way and wholly negative in my view to a part of the community that I consider 'puppy kickers'.

I am understanding of your desires for meaningful PvP and I am all for that. In due time, perhaps, I will walk into your tavern somewhere and call you out for a old fashion one on one PvP on a equal footing. Now, that is meaningful to me.

Golgotha, their ilk and other pro-PvPers need to up their game because IMO, they are going about it all wrong. Several treads have come up on the Goblinworks and Paizo boards about the size and power of EBA, who have made no bones about being against negative PvP. How the size and power of EBA may be a danger to the game for PvP.

How about this - STOP DOING EBA'S RECRUITING FOR THEM!

Every meaningless and negative PvP experience is a potential recruit for EBA. EBA doesn't need to recruit, the PvPers are doing it for them and the PvPers are blind to this.

Now I did engage in a meaningful PvP the other night with another character of mine. A relatively large scale engagement with nearly 30 people total for combatants. Meaningful? Hell, Yes! Did I die? Yes. Did I care? No. Could I enjoy this? YES, but...

The game isn't there yet. My frustration was trying to target the enemy. The experienced PvPers run around like over caffeinated squirrels hopped and jump around like gazelles. Like someone doped up rabid squirrels, put them in the box, kicked around the box and them dumped the squirrels on the ground and said 'Fight'

I spent most of the combat just trying to identify the enemy and then doing a insane click fest trying to target one guy. This is where the game falls down at the moment. It needs to be way better than this if people like myself who are new to MMOs and to PvP are to be won over. Because it is insanely hard right now and frustrating and expecting someone to spend hours doing click fest activities to better target is NOT a way to endear PvP to a new comer. I have high hope the 'Feud' mechanics will make this a lot easier and then I would enjoy it more.

Othewise, kick the puppy too many times, like the activities going on around Marchmont and all you will succeed in doing is turning newcomers off to PvP due to the negative experience and they will either be pushed further into a anti-PvP mindset and never appreciate or they will join the steady growing ranks of EBA as protection from the negative PvP presented thus far in the game.

Truly, I DO GET your frustration, Savage Grace. I want to play YOUR GAME at some point but IMO, the game isn't there and I am not there yet.

In the final analysis, the issue isn't the 'existing community'. The issue is the 'presentation' and 'meaningfulness' of the PvP by certain elements in the game that has worked completely against what they claim is their goals. Carry on with the current state that most PvP is conducted right now and the 'New' community will be the same type of players of the 'Existing' Community and you have gained nothing, except a bigger and more polarized EBA, and settlements and companies who 'bunker down' to protect themselves for the largely negative PvP that has been the norm up to now. And the issue is the game 'tech' has not matured enough to make the PvP fully meaningful and FUN to people like myself.

Goblin Squad Member

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Stages of a Big Project below:

1. Enthusiasm

2. Disillusionment

3. Panic

4. Search for the guilty

5. Punishment of the innocent

6. Praise and honors for the non-participants

You are now at stage 2. Some people are already at stage 3.

And no, I am not making light of your concerns. It is still early in the process and crowd forging is still going on, meaning little is locked down in stone at the moment.

And yes, we all have our misgivings about aspects of Pathfinder Online, some more or less than others. Which is natural at this stage.

Give it some time and as you say, check back in 6 months.

Goblin Squad Member

PM sent

Goblin Squad Member

Is this a base DT account with one month only or multiple months available? Important to know if someone wants to make an offer.

Goblin Squad Member

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You guys kill me .... figuratively and literally. ;)

Goblin Squad Member

ZomoZ wrote:
I have spent 20 hours or so gathering peacefully and can count the number of people I have seen outside of towns in that time on one hand, and have never been attacked. The possibility of getting killed in game is greatly blown out of porportion. Currently with the low population I think the possibility of getting pvp killed is significantly less then accidentally skirting some mordant spire or ogres too close and dying

That would be a bad inference to make. There are 'hot zones' all over the map for both traffic and PvP. If that is your experience to date, you clearly aren't in a hot zone.

Go try and collect copper off of Golgotha's mountains if you aren't with their alliance and you will find the experience very different.

A sweeping generalization helps no one. There are areas of the map where you can gather and idyllically admire the beauty of the great outdoor all day long and almost never see anyone. There are areas of map where you have to 'stealth' gather and stare at mini-map all the time because 'trouble' shows up with great regularity.

People's mileage will vary depending on who they are and where they are when they do activities. Life in the SE of the map isn't dull by any means.

Goblin Squad Member

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LOL. So you can gank to your heart's content in the town of Rotter's Hole but don't start a barfight?

Goblin Squad Member

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If one can't go from point A to point B without a military escort, this game is already a fail at a variety of levels.

A new player may not be joining with his battalion of friends to survive the early days while he learns the game and tries to find a home in one of the settlements. He/she is most certainly not geared up in Tier 2 equipment to survive an outing to see the world and most of the PvPers, by their own admission, are so kitted out.

The predators have every advantage and the new player has absolutely none until such time as the person - either quickly learns and adapts and finds some friends real fast. Or quits.

That is the road I see this game heading towards. What the other players do about the PvPers is a fine statement from Ryan but for a new player, that is meaningless in the reality of their early days of the game where THEY can't do anything and whether they survive the learning curve of the game or not, becomes dependent upon the other players in the game with enough power, gear and numbers curtailing what they want to do to help and protect new players.

I frankly don't see people forming a standing militia to protect Marchmont in this game when they have their own settlements to look after.

This from a player who had three attempted ganking directed at him in the last week upon leaving Marchmont which I ran from.

Now, I avoid everyone I meet in the wilds because they may be a bandit/PvPer.

Is this game truly about 'Trust No One'? If so, that message needs to be louder then.

Goblin Squad Member

Since there is some Golgotha players here, what is the protocol on transiting areas you control?

I want to visit Thornkeep but your evil empire is in the way and I don't want to hug the map edges to go around, unless 'all bets are off' is the modus operandi in Golgotha. If that is the case, I will suck it up and go the long way around.

Goblin Squad Member

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<Kabal> Daeglin wrote:
Saiph wrote:
I'm not entirely sure but I'd guess the problem is (at this stage of the game) the consequences for murderers/bandits are far less severe than the victim's. And, as far as I know, that is not at all how it is intended or described.

The primary deterrents are social as reflected by the rep system which will limit trainiing, and gear access (ie. will crafters equip you), the end result being lower powered characters for pvp behaviour that does not reflect appropriate gameplay. Some people feel a bounty system will be a deterrent, but there is nothing to stop bounties from being offered now. There will always be situations where pvp will be able to occur without rep loss (feuds, wars, factions, open pvp windows on towers/holdings), just as the scenario that started this happened in.

Some people talk about consequences as though they are actually supposed to limit pvp. They aren't. Consequences simply attach a cost to pvp. They will not, and are not intended to limit <appropriate > pvp. They will gimp the power and development of characters doing inappropriate pvp through mechanisms that are essentially already in place and being iterated. This thread is a good example of how the in-game settlements will iterate their own individual responses to pvp whether it is considered appropriate by game mechanics or not.

Edit: clarified appropriate pvp

But there is no consequences to PvP outside the windows if that person has multiple characters. The loss of reputation is only a deterrence to a new player with one character.

My understanding is that the modus operanti for most PvPers in the game right now is to gank away their reputation, then park that character and switch to another one of their characters who has recovered their reputation points. Rinse and repeat. For them, there is NO consequence that is meaningful in the context of the loss of reputation system. Can't enter any settlement - change to your other character for a while. That is meaningful <sarcasm>.

Also, I hear that the PvPers are doing gamey things with the flag system as well, so that responders also take the reputation hit as well or possibly even getting off reputation free and their victim take the reputation loss.

One thing I have learned is most(note - most, not all) PvPers will game the system if they can. If that is the case, is any programmed 'limitation/conseqence' even possible?

Goblin Squad Member

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BWG was in the worst possible position - in the middle between two large alliances opposed (in principle) to each other. In short, they were doomed because anyone in the middle of a warzone, unless they take a side and develop a militant mindset and develop characters and supports accordingly is not going to last.

I just don't see a 'being Switzerland' strategy working in this game for anyone. In fact, what I do see happening eventually is smaller settlements falling to Golgotha, other settlements by necessity having to align with the anti-Golgotha alliance to survive and then we have a game with two factions - Golgotha and anti-Golgotha.

Why do I think that? Because in this very thread, someone from Golgotha has stated the intention to WIN the game. And I think that will be bad for the health of the game long term. Might as well rename Pathfinder Online the "War of the River Kingdoms" because that is what it will become.

Thousands of players will join once Open Enrollment opens and shortly will be faced with a choice forced upon them. Join Golgotha or join the other side. Anyone espousing neutrality is going to struggle in the face of two behemoth alliances in the game who can leverage resources and manpower.

If a significant number of new players join Golgotha, then they could very well 'WIN' the game as was stated.

I signed up for Pathfinder Online, not a looming never ending war between the PvPers and the anti-PVPers. The day what I say above happens, that is the day I quit Pathfinder Online because it is not the game I signed up for and it sure as hell isn't the vision of Pathfinder Online that Ryan talks about.


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I intend to be the last man standing.


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Well, just jump on him, bite the finger with the ring off, claim the ring and then fall into the volcano, destroying Sauron in the process...

Well, you asked how to get rid of the ring.

Actually, Dave Justus has the best course of action. Rat him out to the paladins and let them deal with it. Your hands are clean.

But there is no limit of options if it is going the ugly route of PvP. Going from the less extreme to the most extreme:

Dose him up with Blue Whinnis or Oil of Taggit. Multiple dose it to increase the save DC and duration. Then take the ring from him while he is unconcious.

Hit him with multiple Hold Person spells (you said he bad Will save modifiers and grapple him/tie him up/beat him down and take the ring.

Worst case, attack from surprise (should get you a surprise round since he is not expecting an attack and catch him flat footed) and beat him down/kill him with force of numbers and better action economy. Take the ring off of his unconscious or dead body.

Ensure, regardless of your choice, that you do whatever by surprise to catch him unaware and away from the paladins. They are such killjoys when it comes to this sort of thing.

Be aware, that unless you follow the advice of Dave Justus about informing the paladins to deal with the issue, there is likely to be hard feelings and consequences, regardless of the success or failure of whatever your choice is.


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It is about personal investment in what the individual deems fantasy and science.

You say fantasy and you will get different answers. For some, it is a Tolkien-ese setting. For someone else, it might be something like Game of Thrones or the Shanarra series by Terry Brooks. Or Greyhawk or Blackmoor or the Forgotten Realms or any number of fantasy tropes.

If your fantasy is Tolkien-ese, Game of Thrones, etc like, obviously there is very little science in it so that person is more prone to outright reject the notion of scifi tropes in the game.

Now if your view of fantasy is like Blackmoor or the Forgotten Realms, there is some science elements, like crashed starships, ancient tech for the former and Lantan inventors for firearms and technology for the latter. Now, your more open to having scifi themes in your campaign.

If your fantasy is John Cartier of Mars Barsoom, then you have a whole lot more scifi themes and most likely, for those players, scifi themes would be embraced readily.

So it comes down to what the individual considers 'fantasy' and it will bear on how much science themes will be tolerate by said person.

Main thing is, there is no 'wrong' answer here. Someone who considers Barsoom/Sword and Planet as their ideal view of fantasy is not superior or inferior to someone who prefers a Tolkien like setting as their idea of fantasy.


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... taking the job, coming light with too few people and an empty gun rack.


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And your problem is what exactly?

I don't consider your situation an issue or even odd. My table has always had a few women players and more than a fair share of male players have played female characters.

Our Skull & Shackles campaign had two male characters and 4 female characters. We had fun. As will you, so don't sweat it.


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Alleran wrote:

Tracking the orbs of dragonkind (if one of them will feature strongly), I think the red, gold, white and copper orbs have their location accounted for.

- Mengkare has the busted-up gold one and has delivered fragments of it to other nations around the Inner Sea.
- White is up in the Tusk Mountains.
- Copper is buried out under the desert sands of Thuvia.
- Red is in the hoard of a dragon somewhere, but I can't remember which.

There's also the big blue one in Hell, which may or may not be a unique blue orb, and I think one other somewhere. The gold, white and copper ones are basically confirmed for a location thanks to Artifacts & Legends, though, making for an easy reference point, unless you interpret the white one as a different orb, since it's not outright named per se. The others are more elusive, though I also remember seeing a picture somewhere of Seltyiel holding the red orb while riding on a dragon.

My guess is it is the White Orb. The southern arm of the Tusk Mountains is not far from the northern arm of the Mindspin Mountains. No reason that a frost giant attack or raid didn't secure the Orb and it was bought south as the frost giants answer the banner call of the Storm Giant King.


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Why do I want to play catfolk?

Wing Commander's Kilrathi

Larry Niven's Kzinti

There is nothing cute about my catfolk...


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Icyshadow wrote:
Westeros is not a D&D campaign setting, that I am sure of.

A Game of Thrones D20, done by Guardians of Order, release by Sword & Sorcery, a subsidiary of White Wolf Games.


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In no particular order...

Forgotten Realms

Elric of Melniboné (Stormbringer)

Scarred Lands

A Game of Thrones


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Thunderscape - The World of Aden by Kyoudai Games has much of what you want and is Pathfinder Compatible.

One of the core classes is the Entomancer, a class similar to a druid but closely tied to vermin.

An Entomancer get Verminous Servants (similar to an animal companion) which can be a Verminous Scout (which as a intelligence of 6), a Verminous Steed (a Large size insect)or a Swarm.

There is a table of progression (like the animal companion one for the druid or ranger) which advances the Verminous Servants for the Entomancer.

The Entomancer can get Insect Masteries, which are abilities which enhance the Entomancer or his Verminous Servants.


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Dotted.


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Age of Worms - Completed as DM
Savage Tide - Completed as DM
War of the Burning Sky - Completed as DM
Shackled City - got to Book 3 as player before RL circumstances ended the campaign
Rise of the Runelords -Completed as DM
Curse of the Crimson Throne - Completed as Player
Second Darkness- Completed as Player
Legacy of Fire- Completed as DM
Council of Thieves - Completed as Player
Kingmaker - Made it to end of Book 4 as DM. Not group's cup of tea so new campaign
Serpent's Skull - Completed as DM
Carrion Crown - Completed as Player
Jade Regent - Completed as DM
Skull & Shackles - Completed as DM
Shattered Star - Ongoing. Middle of Book 5 as DM
Reign of Winter - Ongoing. Near end of Book 1 as Player
Wrath of the Righteous -Have not attempted yet
Mummy's Mask - Have not attempted yet


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I'd think a siege engine sized pepper box would look like a civil war era crank operated gatling gun. If you ever seen one or a picture, it is mounted on a gun carriage similar to a gun carriage for a small 3 to 6 lb size shot cannon.

The civil war gatling gun was 10 barrels, I believe. Treat it a 'pepperbox' that can fire 10 musket barrels in rapid succession. Do note, the Civil War era gatling gun used cartridge technology, so I don't know if a 'wad and ball' flintlock style gatling gun would be even possible. The civil war era one's actually had a type of magazine, gravity fed, that allowed sustained fire. Your call if after 10 shots if each barrel needs to be reloaded or if sustained fire is possible.

Actually what would be interesting is if reloading actually required removing the barrel array and putting on a new one, while the removed barrel array was reloaded.

That would mean most likely a 3-4 man crew for the weapon. The crew size for the civil war pieces were 4 men.

Or for a completely different take on a 'pepperbox' style siege gun, google 'organ gun' or 'volley gun'. There are some real world and fantasy takes on the concept of a organ pipe like cannon, which is a series of side by side cannon barrels in row or in a circular array.


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I have gamed for years with people far younger than me. As in, young enough to be my kids.

I am 58 years old and I play with 4 other people who are between 17 and 24 years old.

Here is the thing: Age only matters if people make it matter. These young pups (as I sometime call them and they get a laugh from it) don't care that I am old enough to be their father. I don't care that they are far younger than me. The love of the game is what matters.

Here is some suggestions that may help you.

Ask straight up if your age is an issue for anyone. If the answer is no, game on.

Never act or talk like a parent substitute. If they wanted to play with their parents, they would play with their parents. So don't be critical about maturity level or behaviors at the table you would speaking out to if they were your kids.

Never take the attitude that the extra mileage you have of being around longer than they have gives you the right to think your experience and insight trumps theirs. I have seen incredibly insightful ideas and outstanding roleplaying from 15 and 16 years olds that would run counter to their younger years.

Never treat them like kids. What I mean is, be blind to the age difference and treat the other players like you would interact with someone your own age.

In short, if you are 'blind' to the age difference, you should get along fine with any table of teenagers. You might see behaviors at the table that is typical of teenagers that might make you roll your eyes - just never be seen rolling your eyes. After all, you are playing with them for a few hours, not trying to parent them.

Have fun and don't sweat the age difference.


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My group doesn't have a problem with it, so it is in the game. My group has two women in it and it doesn't phase them at all.

From a recent game session:

Female player whose character with scimitar just scored a critical hit against a human cultist...

Me: "Your scimitar catches your foe across the mid riff, opening a wide channel of blood and entrails. With a scream of agony, he grabs at his intestines trying to spill from the enlarging wound and falls to his knees."

Female Player "I wonder how that hit would be like with a groin hit? Anyhow, I step forward and try to decapitate him with my next attack"

From another game session:

Me: "The three goons make disparaging remarks to about 'whether you got any hair "down there" and how they would like to find out. One of them states what he would like to do to your ears while he 'enjoyed' you and the others laugh in response. The other party members are still not in sight yet. What do you do?"

Female player playing a female elf magus character "I attack the nearest goon with my blade and then burning hands the three of them, while saying "You should be less concerned with whether I got hair "down there" and more concerned with the blade in my hand and the fire from my finger tips"

Typical game discussion stuff from my two female players... and both of them are mothers with small children. Go figure.

Bottom line - it comes down to knowing your players and their temperaments. It works for our group because everyone realizes it just a game and mature themes is part of the game. But it is entertaining to listen to the two ladies talk smack when they really getting into roleplaying.


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Looks like yellowdingo is off his meds again. ;-)

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