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Mynafee Gorse

Bill Dunn's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 5,596 posts (6,572 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 21 aliases.


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A double move can get you to the end of the tunnel, Cassandra - assuming you move on foot rather than pop about. I'll leave your token there under the assumption that you're OK with getting in position do what you're thinking of doing...

You may not have alchemists fire, Wednesday, but...

Tobias and Holt start scrambling and digging about their gear. The clinking of bottles foreshadows their appearance - they bring out a few bottles of alchemist fire and start setting them up for easy grabbing and throwing.
"Hurry up, Holt! We can't let them kill Jeremy. Callie would kill us!"
"I'm hurryin', I'm hurryin'!"

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mechaPoet wrote:
mechaPoet wrote:
Honestly, I find "Gamer" itself to be a strange identifying label.
I'm escalating my stance. The term "gamer" is frankly embarrassing for all involved.

Why? I play games and have been an avid game hobbyist for 35 years. Why shouldn't I be proud to wear the term "gamer"?

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Though she's also a gamer, my wife has generally been proud of her self-declared "geekgirl" identity. And she's 47 and was over 30 when she took that identifying label on. So as far as "-girl" or "-boy" being a putdown, a person's mileage may vary.

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Selvaxri wrote:

It's sad to hear that this person was making no effort to differentiate himself from being a legit Pathfinder table.

At conventions, there are going to be all sorts of games available, using a wide variety of game systems. None of them are really illegitimate. They were using the PF rules, even if badly, that makes them as legit as anything else. There's no implication of fraud or anything here.

What they seem to have been was a jerk table, run by crappy GM. That's a completely different issue from legitimacy, though no less disappointing for the unfortunate participants.

Firdall simply tears into the hapless boar. It cannot withstand so much injury and it collapses in a heap. Now, two boars lie on the ground, ready for dressing.

"Fantastic! I can see you have a great future ahead of you as a hunter, my friend," Aldern calls out, clearly pleased by the result of this morning's hunt. He slides down from his saddle. "We will be able to bring quite a prize back to Ameiko's fire pit, thanks to all of you. And Rex here, has been properly blooded as well. Come here, boy!" He then gives his new dog a treat from his pocket.

The boar carcasses are not too hard to clean, but the work is gory and smelly. Aldern breaks out the picnic prepared earlier by Ameiko. "Let us rest for a bit, friends, before we return to Sandpoint. You are doubtlessly thirsty and in need of food." He starts to offer bread and cheese around, but makes a point to offer the first piece of a sweet spice cake to Alesta.

Depends on whether or not you want to rescue Jeremy and to what lengths you're willing to go...

Sorry, got called away last night as I was posting and didn't get to finish.

The boar is weak on its feet. Rex attempts to go for the kill, but the boar manages to brush him off.
bite: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (8) + 3 = 11

The boar tries desperately to gore Firdall to retaliate against his terrible claws. The cat man is too swift to be caught.
gore: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (5) + 4 = 9

Everyone is up

Darnak's strikes fail to bother the boar - its hide is too thick to mark such blows. But Firdall's claws do rend porcine flesh.

Another scream comes from Alesta. The boar squeals more in rage than in pain. Though grievously wounded, the boar fights on.
Fort save: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (11) + 6 = 17

Menlo now takes his turn and tries to stab at the boar's vitals with his rapier. But he fails to line up his shot properly and the rapier goes wide of the mark.
Menlo rapier: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (9) + 7 = 16

Boar1: dead
Boar2: -34

Firdall may have difficulty injuring the boar, but Darnak lands a blow squarely on his porcine opponent. It's not enough to put it down, however.

"Rex!" Aldern calls out and the new dog swiftly reacts with a painful bite to the boar's shoulder.
Bite: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (15) + 3 = 18 Bite damage: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (5) + 3 = 8
Trip: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (3) + 3 = 6

Menlo(bot) finds himself a bit farther from the fight than intended so he takes a hooked route to bring himself into the fight across from Firdall. He manages to thrust toward a vital area, though once again the boar proves too hardy to fall.
Rapier: 1d20 + 5 + 2 ⇒ (14) + 5 + 2 = 21 rapier damage: 1d6 + 1 + 1d6 ⇒ (1) + 1 + (4) = 6

Alesta(bot) turns from her initial course and casts a spell. It looks like she's screaming but nobody save the boar fully hears it at its full amplitude.
Fort save: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (1) + 6 = 7 ear-piercing scream damage: 1d6 ⇒ 3
I was curious to see how effective Alesta's spell was.

The boar winces in pain from the sonic effect and seems to be dazed! It tries to shake the pain off.

Since the boar is dazed, it gets no attack. The adventurers are up again!

Boar1: dead
Boar2: -20, dazed

I'm going to say Cassandra probably hangs back as well and move along.

The dockworkers are definitely having a difficult time with the rats, staggering out of the roiling swarms as best they can.

I think the unorthodox use of wild empathy fits in this situation (I am going to move Amira closer to do so) - the handle animal skill, not so much. I'd be more inclined to allow it with something like a stampede of domesticated animals like if someone were to panic the horses at the stables or on a ranch, but not so much a swarm of rats.

Amira seems to catch the attention of some of the rats as about half of them peel off and head for the water channel to escape trouble. The rest are still cohesive enough to flow over Jeremy again, who screams in horror... and pain.

Next up: Everyone

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I'd let him. Whether she's a spirit or a flesh and blood woman,she's in need. Heck, let him know secretly and leave it up to him to decide whether to share that fact with the rest of the party. In his shoes, knowing she's a spirit would only increase my desire to help her because it also highlights my own character's gifts in the eyes of my party. It's good to have your fellow players think your PC is kind of cool.

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In ions group, there are 3 of us - shelves stocked with Avalon Hill or SPI games, D&D for over 30 years. And in the other group, we fall to only one because of lack of interest in the war games among the other long term players.

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Melkiador wrote:

The same logic applies even more to a healer cohort. Most players don't want to play the healer. So why not let those duties fall to a reliable NPC?

I, in fact, encourage the use of the leadership feat to fill gaps in the party make-up. I'd rather they recognize their own shortcomings and adapt the group to the campaign than have to adapt the campaign because everyone is too stubborn to shift their concept to cover useful adventuring skills and powers.

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Rogar Valertis wrote:

The game is about a small group of heroes fighting against hordes of monsters (and let's not forget stealing their gold) or generally going against the odds even in social situations.
It's not meant to be played by chatacters commanding armies of minions. That's something NPCs do. So basically Leadership inserts a new dynamic into the game, one the game is generally ill prepared to handle barring special efforts from the DM and players.

In a word: No. The game's about a lot more than that and most of the D&D family always has been. Henchmen (cohorts in previous edition terms) and followers have been around since at least 1e AD&D. The particular mechanics of PF make it a pretty potent choice for certain styles of play, but it doesn't have to be problematic.

Monday to Thursday next week. It'll be a zoo.

Jeremy is in the lead with Tobias and Holt following closely behind as Wednesday hangs back a little. A couple of the rats dart around a corner in the sewer ahead. Jeremy has just followed with Holt and Tobias right at the corner when the occasional squeaking of the mice turns into a cacophony. A swarm of rats surges into Wednesday's view as men ahead cry out.

Current map (also linked above): Rat Hunt in the Sewer

Amira: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (10) + 3 = 13
Cassandra: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (10) + 3 = 13
Tolenn: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (6) + 6 = 12
Wednesday: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (1) + 2 = 3
Dockworkers: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (2) + 1 = 3
Rats: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (15) + 6 = 21

The rats swiftly crawl all over Jeremy, Holt, and Tobias.
Everybody else is up! Absent a grid, consider a PC's chit is about 5' on a side ash we'll eyeball distances as needed.

Botting Menlo for the move

Menlo initially steps away from the boar but then circles back around to keep the beast surrounded. He draws his rapier as he does so, but is unable to make an attack by so doing.

The boar decides it won't take this lying down and so tries to stand up - opening itself up to attacks from Darnak, Menlo, and Aldern's dog Rex.

I'll assume, under these circumstances, you'll want to take the AoO.

Darnak's AoO: 1d20 + 2 + 2 + 4 ⇒ (19) + 2 + 2 + 4 = 27 Darnak damage: 1d6 + 2 ⇒ (5) + 2 = 7
Rex's AoO: 1d20 + 3 + 4 ⇒ (17) + 3 + 4 = 24 Rex's damage: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (5) + 3 = 8
Menlo's AoO: 1d20 + 5 + 2 + 4 ⇒ (11) + 5 + 2 + 4 = 22 Menlo's damage: 1d6 + 1 + 1d6 ⇒ (2) + 1 + (3) = 6

Under an assault such as that, the boar fails to retain his feet and slumps to the turf.
The second boar moves in behind Darnak in an attempt to gore him. The monk, however, is too quick and nimble on his feet to be struck by so clumsy an attack.

Boar: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (3) + 4 = 7

Everybody other than the boars are up!

Boar1: dead
Boar2: fine

I've been a bit slammed at work (so has Menlo) because we have our massive users group meeting coming up. But I'll bot Menlo and keep things moving for today.

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This may just be me, but I would have most centaurs consider that sort of thing demeaning. Willing to carry someone in an emergency, OK, but being paid to basically be a horse? I'd be charging a hell of a lot more for it - for those centaurs willing to debase themselves so badly.

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lowericon wrote:
Zedth wrote:
equivalent to that of a dragon one size larger.
That's certainly more reasonable. Thanks for the suggestion.

That also might be good fodder for a decent survival check - harvest without the check (or a failed one), use the standard rule. Make a reasonably difficult check and treat the dragon as 1 size class larger.

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Kahel Stormbender wrote:

On the other hand, I can see ways you could trip a flier. Especially one who uses wings to fly.

Me too, but as RedDog posted a few years ago before this thread was necro'd, that looks a bit more like a grapple than a trip. In fact, that's how I ran it when a monk character managed to get on a swooping wyvern and succeeded at a grapple check to foul its wings.

It really is one of the challenges of the play-by-post game - keeping it moving and everyone engaged when there are outside circumstances weighing in on our time and energy.

Amira, Tolenn, haven't heard from either of you in a while. Following along with the people heading for the sewers?

The odor of the sewers has not improved since Wednesday's last visit, but the tunnel is relatively well maintained and a mostly dry walkway is free of debris and sewage. It's only a matter of a dozen yards or so before the groups encounter the first junction.
"This way, lads." Tobias says as he turns to the left. The light he's carrying flashes on something ahead - eyes! And a squeaking can be heard. A few small rats turn from the light and begin scampering their way farther down the side tunnel.
"First rats are ours! Come on!" Jeremy shouts out as he starts to run after the rodents.

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Talonhawke wrote:

Unless you have to pick class and race first minmaxing will still happen, the class and race will be chosen to fit the stats instead of the stats being set to fit the class.

Well, sure. But there's still a difference between putting a number you can't control into an out of the way stat and specifically buying a low stat to be able to buy another one higher. In the former, it's called making do with what you get because you aren't compensated for a low score.

Alara Dawnchaser wrote:
To be honest, I'm seriously considering calling it here. As fun as I found this campaign (and this was the first PbP campaign I ever took part in on the boards), progress has slowed considerably.

The game has slowed. I've been startlingly busy lately, but it was already kind of grinding down before that. We've had quite a few drop outs (including the original GM, twice). So I'm content with putting it to bed rather than try to jolt some more energy into it.

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CWheezy wrote:
Nah no maybe. The holy ice spell as written the 25 gold is implied for the holy water flask.

Not by the rules of punctuation and English I know...

CWheezy wrote:
Its true that the magic rules don't make sense in some ways. Of you think about the rules for gameplay purposes, and imagine the awful minutae of tracking every tiny silver and copper component, the rules make perfect sense. I've shown in the rules how magic works, the rules say what they mean.

So then the bull's strength potion in the Transformation spell is free? That's what you're telling us here.

I think it's a stronger bet that the person writing the rule you keep mentioning expected all spells with a more costly material component to include the price reference and that expectation is not always met in the write-up of spells. So what's our solution - to dig in with the rule and make the bull's strength potions used in Transformation free? Or recognize that the general guideline isn't always followed in the rulebooks and apply the costs of specific items listed in the component when they are known?

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Cyrad wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
I think a race's weaknesses are what gives them character. Not every race needs to be optimal at every class.
Every race should be competent at enough classes to defend its civilization and have a civilization to defend. Someone needs to stand in front with a spear and shield.
That argument doesn't hold any water. Races learn to fight with respect to their strengths and weaknesses. Their armies will differ accordingly and use different strategies.

Moreover, a -1 on checks and rolls relative to other races isn't enough to critically condemn their ability to defend themselves whether with archers or shield walls even if they chose to use them.

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Kitty Catoblepas wrote:

Yes, but are the penalties there for a good reason? The extra feat that Humans get (along with the flexible stat bonus) makes them the best choice for almost every class. A lack of a bonus to the major ability of a class makes an other race a poor choice (like a Dwarven Wizard). A penalty to the major stat basically prevents a player from choosing the race for that class (a Dwarven sorcerer). That's destroying a lot of options, and I'm not sure that it's a good or necessary thing.

Yes, they're there for a good reason - to give these races distinctive character compared to humans. And no option Is destroyed, just made a little more challenging to build in the same way. There's absolutely nothing preventing someone from playing a viable dwarven sorcerer other than their own personal approach to the trade-offs inherent in the game.

Kitty Catoblepas wrote:

So tell me... Do you believe that the Humans are balanced with the other races, or do you think it's more challenging to make a build with a different race? Do you believe that the "Second +2" tradeoff is worth it? What do you think would make the Humans balanced with the other races if we removed the -2 from them? Are we talking "+2 to Sense Motive" or "+1 to all Saves" for balance?

Yes, I think humans are well-balanced with the other races. You have to be aware than in pre-3.0 days, demi-humans were balanced against humans by having level limits, a rule house-ruled away by lots of groups, leaving very few reasons to play humans. Humans had nothing else going for them. Since 3.0, humans have gotten positive benefits and if that means that players are having a harder time justifying to themselves playing something other than human, then it means the balance and trade-offs are working as designed.

Any replacement of those trade offs needs to be carefully considered otherwise you end up with too many mechanically advantageous options. Getting rid of the second +2 would be an absolute must to wipe away the -2 penalty.

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doc roc wrote:
Very rarely see Total Defence used in games... strange

Your players probably haven't come up with the cheese of getting a semi-permanent AC bonus just by moving slowly...yet.

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We don't generally think of it as sacrificing someone for the greater good. It's avoiding everyone dying and, thanks to the circumstances, someone can't make it. The game's sometimes like that. Most of us are understanding when we get left behind in those circumstances.

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'Sani wrote:
He's talking about events at conventions. Generally, there aren't 'form a group of randoms and play' events at Cons, instead there is PFS.

Oh, sure there are. The bigger the convention, the more there will be. Even putting up a sign-up sheet on a bulletin board will net you players for a pick-up game run in the halls or one some side tables. The main drawback, aside from attracting any sort of oddballs with whom you may not get along, is they're highly variable experiences and a fairly random grab-bag of opportunities.

It's just that PFS are reliably there if PF is your game of choice.

Cassandra can see nobody else up on the rooftops other than, of course, Amira who is well-concealed from the crowds below.

The light from a couple of the lanterns held by the group below starts to play along the rooftop, catching the conjurer in a beam of light.

"That's not Blackjack."
"Who is it, then?"
"Don't know."
"Wha'd she do with Blackjack?"

Tobias then speaks up. "If you're all finished with this Blackjack nonsense, can we get started? He ain't doing anything about the rats just like he ain't doing anything about the woman that murdered the king."
"'Cept rescuing her." mutters Jeremy.
"We ain't getting into that now. We're here to kill rats. This ain't about politics."
"You brought it up..."
"Shut up, Jeremy. Now let's move out!"

Finally, the group stops blathering about Blackjack and moves north along the docks. A short while later and the group overlooks a shallow channel with a grate heading into the sewers and catacombs beneath the city. The grate is closed, but the strong laborer muscles of a couple of the dockworkers make short work of that with the grate scraping noisily along the stonework.
"OK, we're in first. Groups split off at the first junction. Leftward as usual." Tobias calls out as he drops into the channel and then into the tunnel.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Aranna wrote:

Is the dragon awake or asleep? An awake dragon is definitely an immediate threat... But a sleeping one is not.

Tell that to bilbo.

He's not batman. He doesn't take 30 minutes to get dressed and become dangerous. He wakes up, you fry. That's immediate.

From a rules sense perspective, you can't take 10 when your adrenaline is pumping and your heart is racing, which is the sensation you should be getting trying to sneak past a dragon. (of course if you're a 20th level adventurer and the dragons still got a bit of egg behind the ears that wouldn't apply)

But how do you determine the breakpoint whether someone should be able take 10 or not? It seems to me you're more hung up on the point when the PC should score an auto-success by taking 10.

If the PC wants to do a routine job sneaking past the dragon - why not let him? The dragon's typically well-invested in perception. The PC's stealth modifier+10 may not be enough. That'll teach him to be a bit cavalier about sneaking past the dragon!

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

One of the reasons i hate take 10 is that it doesn't really leave an option for lower DCs to be meaningful.

Are they supposed to be meaningful for seasoned adventurers investing in developing those skills? I don't really think so. I think the meaning here is that the PCs who can auto-succeed at them by Taking 10 are good enough that tasks a neophyte might find hard are now routine.

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It may not change things a whole lot, but it does add one more action on the PC-side of things compared to 4. The 4 to 1 advantage was already pretty evident in single-monster fights and, depending on the nature of the opponent, a truckload of extra hit points won't be enough to compensate.

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Quite the contrary. The a big chunk of the reason i disliked take 10 has always been that the options were to either have 100 success chance of success or a 55+% chance of failure.

Well, 100% success rate on plenty of tasks is kind of the point. The PC is skilled or talented enough that more and more tasks become routine and easily accomplished.

"Rex, attack!" Aldern calls out to his new hunting dog. He reacts quickly to his command and bites effectively, tearing at the wound Menlo already inflicted. He even pulls the boar off its feet, leaving it prone.
Bite: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (19) + 3 = 22 Damage: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (3) + 3 = 6
Trip: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (15) + 3 = 18

Aldern, taken a bit by surprise by his new dog's success, calls out "Er, g-good boy. Good boy!" Meanwhile, he also aims at the other boar, opting to shoot the one in a bit of cover rather than the one in direct combat. The cover, however, proves too much for his shot and it misses.
crossbow: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (7) + 7 = 14

Menlo is up, then it's back to the boars

Boar1: -19
Boar2: fine, a bit under cover

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jimibones83 wrote:

But if that is indeed the definition of immediate danger, does a storm count? The result of harm is kind of up to chance more than whether or not one acts in such a case, or both. But harm is certainly not definite.

This is a good place for GM discretion. Some rainstorms wouldn't be a distractions, more severe ones might be. The main thing I'd consider is the complication - storm, combat, other factor - needs to actively make the task difficult. It shouldn't just be a passive consequence of failure, like the ground under a cliff that would be encountered in a fall.

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jimibones83 wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
jimibones83 wrote:
@BigNorseWolf You can take 10 while walking a tightrope over lava. The lava is also there now. Now doesn't matter at all.

If the dm says you can't, then you can't. Sorry. SKR's post died with the not an FAQ. You're walking a tightrope over lava. You're in immediate danger. Pray to the polyhedral gods!

That's funny, because I'm pretty sure I've read the developers themselves use it as an example of something you could indeed take 10 on. I'll post it after work if I can find it

If you're on a tightrope walk some significant distance above lava such that it's not a threat any more than the ground would be, you should still be able to take 10. Now, if that lava were bubbling so fiercely that splats were reaching up to the level of the rope and it was in danger of being burned through and snapping any moment... then that really is immediate danger.

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Bandw2 wrote:

this is actually, entirely false. The main people who answered the crusade ACTUALLY were the kings and lords themselves.

Like Richard Lionheart? the King of bloody England. Philip? The King of France. I want some actual examples of 2nd and third sons, because I can tell you the Kings themselves answered the call, The kings themselves upheld what they saw as an actual divine commandment. The belief that only 2nd and third sons answered the call is a superstitious belief created in the modern age, as if it was inconcievable anyone could go to war unless they had something to gain from it. Hell, the only other major contendant that I didn't mention in the third crusade? Fredrick I of the Holy Roman Empire, who drowned on the way there, real great story that one, accounts say he was bathing in a river.

Mind you we're talking about the third crusade, which was completely a military en devour. After the 2nd crusade Holy War was justified in the eyes of the Catholic host. Responders to the third crusade were mostly soldiers, or equipped to be soldiers.

No, it's not entirely false, though it may be oversimplified as well. The First Crusade is notable for being fairly absent of monarchs - too many of them were in conflict with the Pope. Instead, you've got a gullible mob of peasants fighting everyone along the way, a lot of Normans on the ascent looking for more land and power, some princes with contested succession and also looking for more domains, and, in truth, some other nobles who seem genuinely moved by the religious appeal. It isn't until the Second Crusade, after seeing the astonishing success of the first, that monarchs really get involved. They were being shown up by the nobles around (and under) them. Politically, they had to take up the cross.

And that third crusade? I'm thinking you wouldn't have seen such personages as Freddy, Dick, and Phil if there hadn't been the issue of the fall of Jerusalem to Saladin. That's a pretty tough political blow to withstand without the premiere kings of the day at least trying to do something about it.

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Wade Erban wrote:

But war doesn't kill innocent people; that's not war's purpose. War is to have soldiers, trained to fight, fight soldiers. It's evil people that kill innocent people, not their weapons.

That may not be war's "purpose" but that is, nevertheless, what war does. War spreads famine and disease - almost inevitably. It disrupts agriculture, it destroys crops and livestock, it displaces people, it sends them spiraling into poverty and squalor. These are all reasons war is never Good.

But Good may go to war out of necessity without committing evil in so doing.

The area around the door is silent and no sign of any boobytrap can be found. In fact, the door seems in relatively good shape as if it's used with moderate frequency. And a quick exploration later, Alara and Piper can confirm that the door leads to stairs back to the ground level of the castle - right in the room with the large conference table and scattered papers.
The carnage in there from the previous day's foray into the castle still remains, though flies now buzz about the dead troglodytes.

Where to now? More exploration of the dungeon level or exploring up the stairs?

Maps for both the dungeon and ground level are updated

As they break up into groups, a noise can be heard from the rooftops. Several within the gathering react.
"Hey! What's that?"
"Someone's on the roof over there."
"On the roof?!? *gasp* Is it Blackjack?"
"Blackjack's here? Maybe he's come to help us fight the plague!"
"Hurray, Blackjack!"

I've moved Menlo to a position where he has a better line of attack at the boar.

Menlo draws first blood, and a significant gout of blood it is. The chakram hits the boar squarely in the side of the neck.
confirmed crit, but too far away for the sneak attack
But the boar survives the blow and its temper is up. It rushes in toward its tormentor, but, fortunately for Menlo, the terrain is too rough and interspersed with thick vegetation for the boar to simply charge in at once. By the time the boar is done moving, Menlo is right up close and personal with it.

Perhaps doubly unfortunate, a second boar gets up out of some thick underbrush and also trots in toward the commotion. The squealing of the two boars raises quite a din.

Boar1: -13
Boar2: fine, a bit under cover

Map updated - visitor editing is enabled - if movement is elaborate, you can include arrows too if they would help illustrate your action

The rest of the party is up next and can post in any order - then we're back on to Menlo

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For the most part, I'd assume anyone unconscious who is suddenly healed is going to have a VERY hard time starting out playing possum. I'd make it a bluff vs sense motive check with +5 or so on the sense motive.

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Putting charges on an item that doesn't require charges is a reasonable means of making it less useful and reducing the cost. Limiting it to an alignment, religion, gender, race or anything like that is usually a bad move.
There's an old piece of advice from Champions - a superhero RPG where powers are constructed and bought with points - if a limitation doesn't limit you, it isn't worth a discount. Charges can reasonable limit you when the item is normally unlimited in that regard. Tailored items, as long as they're tailored to the PC, aren't a limitation.

"No, I haven't. She was a bit roughed up, but she didn't seem bit or wounded yet, Desna's blessings will out. Didn't get a chance to talk to her since she ran as soon as she was able. But we aren't in this for thanks or anything. We're just trying to help out even if the ones we're helping out don't know it or run off. Long as you're reconciled to that, that there ain't no pay in it, we'll take your help."

Tobias then raises his voice, "Get yourselves ready, everybody. We'll be moving out. Groups of 4. Light your lanterns."

Directed more at Wednesday again, "Since you're new and probably don't know the tunnels, stick with me, Jeremy, and Holt."

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Hah! You no longer look like a spoiler.

Whew. Frustrating week at work. Sorry to be slow to respond.

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Sissyl wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:
Sissyl wrote:

I have a lesser and a greater rod. I try to use the lesser one for empowering my quickened fireball. Does it work? No. It would be a level 7 spell since that is most disadvantageous to me.

Now I try my greater rod instead. Does that work? No. Since the greater rod can't handle a level 3 spell, that is more disadvantageous to me.

Now, see, I was interpreting "least advantageous to the caster" as requiring the use of the more expensive rod to empower the quickened fireball rather than assuming the intent of the rule was to be outright broken.

Going in assuming that the game is supposed to work rather than assuming the most pedantic interpretation of the rule text is right seems to work a lot better for me. Maybe you should try it.

Absolutely. I am all for that. But hey, could you then convince this bunch of people to agree on where the limits are for "disadvantageous for the caster"? There doesn't seem to be any sort of limit to it as it stands, at least if you listen to what the people who like the FAQ say.

I don't know about you, but avoiding redundant and reductive judgments seems to be a pretty good common sense limit to me. Looking at the quickened fireball issue and the lesser and greater metamagic rods, it seems appropriate to judge the level of the spell for further metamagic applications once and once only. You judge it to be 7th level due to the quickening (being less advantageous to a caster, in general) so the lesser rod can't apply, but the greater one does. Making a second judgment now on the suitability of the greater rod is like getting into an argument with Vizzini - written for comedy, not a model for decision-making.

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