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Mynafee Gorse

Bill Dunn's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 4,483 posts (4,975 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 14 aliases.


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I don't think there's an elephant in this room. Burnout and methods of recharging are fairly well-discussed topics on various message boards. And this thread has plenty of good advice.

Since you already have some good info about what seems to get the group excited, my advice is to incorporate those tactics in the game you run - but with some alternative pacing and ideas being worked in to keep from being burned out.

Being a long-term gamer as well (playing since 1981), I've recognized that variety really helps keep the games I play from going stale. So variations in campaigns, varieties of games, variations in the characters I try to play - all help keep things fresh. I've also recognized that some of the games that interested me in my younger days don't appeal that much to me now but they might in the future as my tastes and preferences change again. I shouldn't pigeon-hole myself into one game or style of play - I'm more complex than that and my understanding of my own gaming preferences is always a moving target.

The ettercap reels under Masamune's offensive. No longer audibly sobbing, the creature seems to be simply gasping to draw breath. Once again, it tries to strike back at the samurai.

Claw 1: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (13) + 5 = 18
Claw 2: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (16) + 5 = 21
Bite: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (15) + 5 = 20
Claw 2 damage: 1d4 + 2 ⇒ (3) + 2 = 5
Bite damage: 1d6 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 2 = 6

A claw finally makes it past Masamune's armor. 5 points of damage
And then, the ettercap's mandibles catch a purchase as well. 6 points of damage and a Fort save

Ettercap: -28
Masamune: -11

The ogrekin spasms violently as the electricity courses through his body. Then he collapses to the ground and moves no more.

Ash in the Gameplay thread wrote:

"The poor thing is crazed brother. Put it down. Like a rabid dog." Ash says, his emotions concerning Ameiko bringing out a cold-caring hybrid in him.

Oh, that is so cold, man. Here I am, trying to inject a bit of pathos into this poor ettercap whose pet has just been slain... and this is the thanks I get *sniff*.

On a more serious note, I have only just started delving into Pathfinder Unchained. There's plenty of it I like. But I'm not too sure about significantly modifying the game we've started with many new rules structures. I've been a fan of fractional bonuses since they appeared back in 3e's Unearthed Arcana because of they way they even out multiclassing a bit. And I don't think I'd have a problem with anyone wanting to a play the revised barbarian, monk, rogue, or summoner.
Scaling items might make their way in, too. Might be a better alternative to trying to craft stuff while traveling too. I'll have to think on that one a bit.

Yeah, no crit on that one - still a solid hit though.

The ettercap winces under Masamune's strike but still desperately claws at the samurai.

Claw 1: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (11) + 5 = 16
Claw 2: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (1) + 5 = 6
Bite: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (2) + 5 = 7

As his attacks fail to hurt his target, the ettercap sobs, "No! You must die! You killed her! You killed her..."

Everybody else, then we move on to the remaining ogrekin

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Joe Hex wrote:

It's just the first one of a new edition, that kinda burns me- because, for the most part, it's the same critters, updated for the new edition- so it does feel like buying the same book again, more so than the other new CBs.

When the monsters are all-new, I really enjoy them. PF Bestiary 4, is probably in my top-5 all time favorite RPG books.

Gonna beg to differ with you on that, particularly for the 5e Monster Manual. There's enough interesting content there that I'm inspired about some old monsters again. Best MM in years.

I like some new monsters too, but eventually things just get overwhelming. I like to revisit old classics from time to time with fresh perspectives.

With Ash's channel being administered before the current encounter, that frees his spell to be the shield of faith.

Ash's spell envelops Masamune, increasing his security (to the tune of a +2 deflection bonus to AC). Piper hustles along the parapet and both Rawnie and Alara move into position. When Rawnie comes into full view through the gate, the ogrekin exchange looks and grin. One of them calls out with a leer, "Now there's a tasty looking one. Tender and juicy, I bet."

Together, the ogrekin take ahold of the iron gate. Their muscles strain. The metal screeches and groans. With a snap, the bolts that kept the gate locked break in two and the gate swings open.
Help break gate: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (14) + 5 = 19
Break gate: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (18) + 7 = 25

At that point, Rawnie's spell lashes out in a fan of scorching fire.
Ref save 1: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (16) + 1 = 17
Ref save 2: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (12) + 1 = 13

One of the ogrekin is quick enough to duck, but the other is not and yowls in pain, hesitating in the gateway. The one burned less, steps in...
Treating breaking the gate as a full round action, leaving just a 5 ft step for further options

...triggering Alara's ambush.
Perception: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (18) + 1 = 19
He's quick enough to notice the ninja's presence, but it doesn't help him much. Alara's blow still catches him across the temple. His eyes cross for a moment and then he topples to the floor.

Ogrekin 1: -17 (down and dying)
Ogrekin 2: -9

Masamune is up, to be followed by the ettercap

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Steve Geddes wrote:
Yeah, that's a good point. I haven't actually seen THAC0 nostalgia though. I guess it was an innovation over the tables, though.

It was. But then turning AC around and using a base attack bonus is a substantial usability improvement over using THAC0 as well.

They didn't seem to be tracking you before. A successful steal check could answer that question from your current position. ;)

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Steve Geddes wrote:

I think it's wotc management who's holding them back, not Hasbro. From what I've heard, wotc management is rather poor in many ways.

I believe current WotC CEO Greg Leeds was a transplant from Hasbro. Sent to promulgate Hasbro culture in WotC management?

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thejeff wrote:

That part I don't buy. Lots of people in the hobby are excited by the OGL, but I don't see how it translates directly to business success.

It took a long time for PF to surpass 4E, despite 4E not having an OGL. Arguably it only did so as 4E was shutting down.

5E is not likely to challenge PF in total sales after the initial Core spike passes because they're not putting out as many books. That would continue to be true if there was an OGL - at least as far as WotC sales and thus revenue go.

Would more (non-revenue generating) 3pp material drive more Core purchases? Maybe. Enough to matter? Maybe. Enough more to give up whatever control they have left over their IP? Much harder to say.

I don't think an OGL necessarily translates into success any more than a more restrictive license - however - there are fantastic things that a less-restrictive license can bring.

1) Story - WotC has some reluctance to write adventures in large numbers and though they are clearly spending more effort with them now, 3rd party adventures can stoke the market through support of busy game masters

2) Utility - There are quite a few electronic tools out there for Pathfinder players and GMs that make my life easier at the game table. In some cases, they are rehashes of the rules but with differing organizational structures that make it easier for me to find and use the information I need - and without having to lug around the books. Those may not help Paizo's bottom line directly, but by making me a happier player and GM, it probably helps me be better disposed toward certain types of PF products.

That settles it, then. Alara and Masamune are up at full hit points. Be sure to update that in your banners/headers/whatevers.

You're right about hit points being off in people's banners, I think, Ash. I looked over previous posts and I think Masamune should still be down 2 instead of 7 (see post 1786 which appears on page 36 of this thread) and though I mention that Alara will be healed (and Ash further injured) in post 1789, I don't think we clearly implemented it. So Alara should be up to full, Masamune down only 2, and Ash should be down 15 as of Alara's healing. Ash would have had plenty of time to put a couple of cures on himself, if desired, so we can wrangle that as necessary.

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Steve Geddes wrote:

What makes you think any of those things are directives from Hasbro?

Hasbro is doing really, really well. Is there a reason to think they don't have talented executive and decent managers? Managers who recognise the folly of trying to set policy from afar on character generators around a minor property in a relatively small subsidiary?

I think any mismanagement of those issues lies with Wizards. This "meddling mega corporation" perspective just doesn't gel with how the world works. We may care about D&D but why would a Hasbro suit? If they're wasting their time making pronouncements about the ogl (rather than leaving it to the people they're paying to make those decisions) then Hasbro shareholders have reason for concern.

I'm not so sure about that. They may not be consistently on the radar of the higher-ups at Hasbro, but I strongly suspect IP licensing isn't just a WotC decision. Scott Rouse, former D&D Brand Manager, alluded to some serious struggles over the licensing in the run-up to 4e. And I think policies from higher up best explain them, the about-face on the OGL, the delays in the GSL, and the reason PDF sales got pulled under 4e.

The ettercap shoves the door inward, provoking Masamune's response - a step into the doorway and slash at the ugly creature.

Hope you don't mind if I roll it... (BTW, is your attack value on your character sheet right? Unless there's a -1 somewhere, I think it should be +6 instead of +5?
Wakizashi attack: 1d20 + 6 + 1 ⇒ (13) + 6 + 1 = 20
Wakizashi damage: 1d6 + 3 + 1 ⇒ (6) + 3 + 1 = 10

The ettercap yelps in pain from the powerful blow and cries out, No! No! No! Murderers! He fights back, clawing at Masamune and trying to bite with his mandibles. But none of his attacks claim purchase past the armor of the samurai.
Bite: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (6) + 5 = 11
Claw 1: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (8) + 5 = 13
Claw 2: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (1) + 5 = 6

The ettercap now bears a gash and it's everyone else's turn - followed by the ogrekin and then Masamune)

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houstonderek wrote:

Yep. Petey wanted to cash out. Blame him for Hasbro. But, had he not started WotC (and published M:TG) and made a ton of money, TSR was over. WotC pretty much kept TTRPGs relevant. Just be thankful Lisa and her crew, Pramas, Wolfgang, and a gang of others who were rejuvenated by the popularity of 3x, were there to carry the torch when WotC sold out and bean counters took over the decision making from the talent.

Let's not simply blame Peter for wanting to "cash out". Selling to Hasbro enabled quite a few people who invested a lot into WotC to get the payback they deserved.

Alara has now been moved down to the ground floor maps - joining Rawnie, Ash, and Masamune.

The tower on the upper floor is much like the first one Alara and Piper climbed through, once used for defense and storage, it appears to be derelict now - the primary evidence of its one-time role? A few scattered arrows and bits of gear, left behind as scrap.

The ogrekin seem to confer (though they are far enough away that whatever they say can't really be heard), then they move forward toward the inner gate. One of them says, in a gruff voice, "What little mice do we have in here? Mice with a sting who don't like spiders, eh?"

Masamune is up next

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Nefreet wrote:
Ckorik wrote:

I (as the GM) say 'what's everyones modifier' - and apply take 20 rules if they start doing that.

Entire thing is over in 2 minutes and the players don't get to roll.

Then again I'm all for moving the game along.

I don't think you understand what taking 20 means.

Taking 10 doesn't increase the time of a check.

Taking 20 means making 20 checks, taking 20 times as long.

Under this new proposal, searching one 10ft square is a move action.

Taking 20 would mean 2 minutes, per 10ft square.

So taking 20 on this particular room would be 24 minutes, using this Unchained idea.

Yeah, so? 24 minutes to do the best search you can possibly do in a 30x40 room, enabling you to thoroughly search for secret doors? That seems pretty decent to me. It's about time Paizo got on the stick with a search check that's not so abusable as taking 20 and searching the whole room from the doorway.

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Seriously? People are interpreting the description of gloves of arrow snaring to require a feat it says the wearer does not need?

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I love strongly thematic parties! Playing in an all halfling party would be awesome. My group of players came somewhat close for our run through Council of Thieves with a 3/4 small party. Two halflings, a gnome, and a dwarf. I tried to get the dwarf to go with a small race, but he didn't quite want to go that far...

Casting the daze is pretty much going to give your position away.

Will save: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (20) + 6 = 26

The ettercap's grief-driven anger seems to be unpenetrated by Piper's daze spell.

From right where you are? You'd need to clear a 20 foot jump from a standing start. He's a bit down the way from you - right where the depiction of the gatehouse roof ends. I've put a magenta-colored mark on the upper floor map to show his position relative to yours.
Of course, moving along the roof of the gatehouse's first floor to then drop at him would be fine too.

Oh, most definitely a crit
Masamune's arrow skewers the spider - right through the head. Its legs convulse, but the spider will not be going anywhere... ever again.

In response, a cry of dismay comes from the stables. The door flies open and a disturbing-looking creature bursts out. It has a spider-like head but is a generally humanoid biped with saggy skin and a distended belly.


know: dungeoneering - bardic knowledge: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (15) + 2 = 17
Piper, you recognize the creature as an ettercap. A weird humanoid kind of related to spiders - they can communicate with spiders and have their own spidery abilities like a venomous bite (paralytic) and webbing.

"NO! You killed her! You animals!" the creature screams. He then runs forward to the normal-sized door at the edge of the gatehouse. That door has brackets for a stout bar inside the fortified chamber... but there's not currently a bar for it anywhere in view.

The ogrekin guffaw at the spider's demise.

The creature has done what he can - next up, everyone except Masamune

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I'm Hiding In Your Closet's idea of playing some improv-oriented games could serve as a good icebreaker. I know that, as someone who's relatively shy and an introvert, that getting started is one of the hardest parts of interacting with people around an RPG. Some of that will always be an issue, but if you can break through once, it'll help establish the game table as a safe and friendly place to role play.

Make sure you set an example with your own role playing of NPCs.

Present mixed examples - first person and third person with descriptions so that you're modeling multiple methods of role playing. One of them may engage a player more than another.

I wouldn't worry about giving rewards for role playing yet. It sounds like they haven't gotten so far with it that dangling carrots is going to help.

The commotion in the courtyard area seems to have drawn a little attention. The two hulking brawlers have come trough the gap between areas of the courtyard and are regarding the fight with some interest. They don't seem to be getting ready to interve at this point, acting more as spectators than imminent combatants.

Masamune is up, then the spider.

Ref save: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (8) + 4 = 12
The spider recoils from the fan of fire too slowly and is fully engulfed. When the flames let up, the spider's hairs are badly scorched and the creature clearly appears to be very badly wounded.

Spider -14

Piper's general position may be easily noted thanks to his music, but a stealth check could still keep him out of direct view... if it becomes important. And, of course, you can move faster if you want, Piper. It's just not too advisable since you'd suffer a penalty on your stealth if you did. In any event, I've moved you and Alara's chits based on your posts.

Masamune's arrow hits at a bad angle and caroms off without injuring the spider. The spider responds by spewing out more web at the samurai in his new location.
Web: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (6) + 5 = 11
Web 2: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (20) + 5 = 25 Spider must take the worse roll, missing - ill omen discharged

This time, its attempt is wider than its last and this arrow slit remains free of obstruction.

Spider has gone - everyone else can go - then back to Masamune

Inspire Courage is in effect, as is ill omen (on the spider - though there is no obvious effect for anyone since the spell is relatively subtle). That puts Masamune next on the rotation - followed by the spider.

The arrow strikes the spider's hairy abdomen with a satisfying THWACK. But it doesn't stop the spider, it just draws its attention. It responds by scooting a little closer, pointing its spinnerets in Masamune's direction, and letting fly.
Web: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (10) + 5 = 15
The samurai, however, is protected by the arrow slit, which manages to get a bit gummed up with webbing, rendering it useless for further shooting.

The rest of the party is up - any order.

Spider: -6 hp

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I need a cigarette.

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If you're really looking for some diversity of options, consider the warhammer as the primary and a short sword in the off-hand. Then you not only have bludgeoning but also one piercing (for differing DR issues). Consider getting a kukri as a second off-hand weapon so you can swing the slashing too. Then, both secondary weapons are better crit generators than the primary as well.

If materials are that big an issue for you, think about one in cold iron, one in mithral (when you can afford it because it doesn't lose the damage alchemical silver does), and one adamantine (for those pesky golems and constructs).

Just 3 weapons - lots of bases covered.

Masamune Mitsuhide wrote:
Are those small slits in the castle arrow slits, and can Masamune see and fire out of them?

You sure can. Some face outward, but some face inward toward the courtyard.

I've moved Rawnie, Masamune, and Ash into the gatehouse on the ground floor map - near the middle of the room.

This stone structure has a floor of packed dirt and numerous wooden support beams for the stone ceiling above. A rusted iron gate allows access from the gatehouse into the courtyard, while to the sides, a pair of wooden ladders climb to the roof above. Narrow arrow slits pierce the walls periodically.

The main gate from the outside may be open, but the inner one to the courtyard is not. In fact, it appears to be locked, but the bar and lever for unlocking it are reachable inside the gatehouse.

Shortly, one of the exterior doors of the stable opens and out scuttles a monstrously large spider. Its legs span 6 or 7 feet while its body is perhaps as large as 3 feet across. It seems to be looking about for something.

Perception: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (17) + 4 = 21
Motion up on the parapet seems to have caught its attention! Piper has been spotted.

Sorry to push, but it feels right to keep the pace up a bit right now, from a dramatic perspective. So I'm setting up initiative.

Alara: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (8) + 3 = 11
Ash: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (11) + 1 = 12
Masamune: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (11) + 3 = 14
Piper: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 2 = 13
Rawnie: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (3) + 1 = 4

Spider: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (11) + 3 = 14
Ain't nobody breaking any records. But it's good enough for Masamune to go first... before the spider. Then it's the spider's turn.

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deadboy wrote:

I don't think it works better. If I give Bob the Barbarian(played by Steve the salesman) a enlarge person potion and an exotic saddle. I can mount my barbarian friend but I cannot make him charge. It makes no difference if you do it with a PC or an NPC. It works better if you treat you mount as its own entity.

I think that's mostly because it's a silly, contrived situation and not a real rider-mount relationship.

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Deadboy, It actually works better if you treat them both as charging but as a single unit...

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Mathmuse wrote:

My wife made an elegant suggestion: the horse is a large creature that takes up a 2x2 square but has only a 5-foot reach. The rider with a reach weapon is a medium creature that sits in the middle of the horse, so for purpose of determining the squares threatened by the rider, choose one of the squares occupied by the horse as the rider's location.

Ordinarily, one would choose a square that lets the rider reach the farthest ahead. But for a charge where the horse will also attack, chose a square at the back end of the horse so that the rider's 10-foot reach hits the same square as the horse's 5-foot reach.

Technically, the rider is considered to be taking up the whole space of the mount. Granted, that gets a little weird when riding an elephant, but it's an abstraction.

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But it does seem a pretty reasonable interpretation to use Ride-by attack to get the rider's attack with a lance, continue movement, and let the mount get its follow-up charge attacks in even if you don't allow the ride-by attack feat to allow movement to continue after that point.

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I need to import a genocide scroll over from Rogue and genocide the spam.

The dire corby collapses with the fight finally taken out of him.

From their differing vantage points, both Alara and Piper notice some activity stirring in the largish courtyard building just below Alara's position. It appears to have once been a stable for the horses of the castle. The exterior walls are gray and weather-worn with a few gaps appearing where boards have broken though. The roof sags a bit.

Piper can see some shadowy movement through the gaps, though without enough detail to make out what is moving (not at this distance, anyway). Alara can hear skittery movement from within but up near the roof.

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LoneKnave wrote:

What if he's riding a rhino though?

If the rider had Ride-By attack, I'd consider allowing both attacks (lance and gore) since that would allow him to move past the spot he made his own attack and enable the rhino's shorter reach to get in its attack. Otherwise, I'd be expecting the rhino rider to choose which charge attack he'll make - with his lance or with the rhino's powerful charge and gore. And then that would determine which space the charge needed to be to - one suitable for the lance or one suitable for the rhino horn.

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claudekennilol wrote:
Valor Axeflail wrote:

Also, nothing in the Charge rules state that you *must* make an attack at the end.

The word used is "may".

But it does say that you *must* move to the closest space from which you can attack.

Is this rejoinder meant to imply that the charging mount, let's call it a horse, must charge to the closest space from which it can attack? If so, stop it. You ever see a joust, either in real life or in the media? Does the horse make an attack? No. The rider does. They're a unit. They act together. That unit needs to move to the closest spot from which it can attack and that's pretty much going to be determined by the boss of that unit - the rider - and his weapon. The individual components of the unit may be targeted (you can try to attack the rider or the horse separately if given the opportunity) and, for those issues, the effects of the charge (loss of AC) can apply to both, but the primary concerns facing the charging unit are going to be determined by the rider and his (or her] attack.

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Pathfinder is a fantasy adventure role playing game. The rules are meant to facilitate having fantasy adventures in a relatively easily administered manner - not throw up barriers to entirely reasonable actions via over-pedantic, tortured readings.

So, yes, of course you can charge with a reach weapon like a lance.

After two swift blows from Alara, the dire corby is reeling but the ferocious hate in its eyes indicate it will fight on.

Will save: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (15) + 3 = 18

The bird man shrugs off Piper's spell, refusing the lure of slumber.

The dire corby fights back, clutching at Alara with its claws, but to no avail. It does begin squeaking in its strange, guttural language, though
Claw 1: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (12) + 3 = 15 a very near miss!
Claw 2: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (2) + 3 = 5 a much farther miss

Let's add everyone else to the initiative (just in case):
Ash: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (8) + 1 = 9
Masamune: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (7) + 3 = 10
Rawnie: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (18) + 1 = 19

Arranged all together, Alara, Piper, and Rawnie may act before the dire corby does anything more, then he goes, then Masamune and Ash.

Sleep is a 1 round casting time (which I often forget) and that keeps you to a 5' step when casting. But that dire corby is in range now, should you choose to cast that spell.

Well, that's better than just taking 10 in this instance. Distance does work in your favor here, too.

Alara: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (11) + 3 = 14
Piper: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (17) + 2 = 19

Dire Corbies: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (11) + 1 = 12

From his vantage point, Piper sees the situation unfold, and is ready to act! Moreover, that bird man doesn't seem to have noticed the sneaky bard.

Piper, Alara, and then the dire corby. This means that Alara does have the poor dear flat-footed and sneak-attackable. My, my...

Perception: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (18) + 1 = 19

The dire corby starts ambling back along the parapet as Alara skulks forward (at surprising speed thanks to her ninja tricks). The birdman is oblivious to her closing in on him for most of the route until, just as they both reach the top of one of the guard towers, he spies her! His beak gapes open in astonishment for a moment before he starts to react.

The dire corby rolled well on his perception check, but even so, he had to be no further than about 10' away to notice Alara due to the range penalties.

We'll be rolling initiative - but I'd like to know what Piper's actions would be with Alara's sneaking. He can't move as fast and still be very stealthy. Trailing her while still trying to sneak would put him right about at the smiley face on the upper floors map. If that's what you'd be doing, Piper, I'll put you there on the map. But if you have another plan, I'm all ears (or eyes since I'll be reading it?!?).

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GM Tribute wrote:

It took them a while to be right, but FATAL proves their point.

Not really. RPGs aren't some kind of slippery slope that inevitably leads to FATAL or RaHoWa any more than the invention of language is a slippery slope that leads to angsty teen poetry.

I'm quite willing to pick up the pace too.

Perception: 1d20 - 4 ⇒ (14) - 4 = 10

Piper suspects the creatures wrestling down in the courtyard may be ogrekin - a term that sometimes comes up in stories associated with ogres. But he can recall little specific about them.

That said, as Piper skulks to Alara's position, one of the hefty creatures glances in his general direction - but takes no further notice as his fighting companion throws some dirt in his eyes.

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Orfamay Quest wrote:
White Plume Mountain, if I remember right. Although I also think the riddle itself is traditional and goes back centuries.

You remember right. It was White Plume Mountain - a fun romp of an adventure even if the location was highly contrived and bizarre.

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