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Mynafee Gorse

Bill Dunn's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 3,960 posts (4,136 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 11 aliases.


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Sharrd noticed the movement enough that the creature in the water does not ambush him from surprise, however, his return to the pool edge triggers a violent response as an amorphous creature rears up to lash out at him. Sharrd, however, is quicker (by quite a bit) and may act first.

Round 1 initiative
Sharrd: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (12) + 1 = 13
Ooze: 1d20 - 5 ⇒ (1) - 5 = -4

First round will be pretty much Sharrd and the ooze alone as a sort-of surprise round - in which the target is not very surprised. Oh, well.

Other initiatives - to blend in at Round 2
Alara: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (5) + 3 = 8
Ash: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (15) + 1 = 16
Piper: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (20) + 2 = 22
Masamune: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (6) + 1 = 7

So, actions will be Sharrd, ooze, and then everybody else, including Sharrd, before the ooze goes again.


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There seems to be a fair amount of contradictory information floating about. The link offered above says the plaintiff was 17 when he met Singer, which I think would make him of legal age for sex in Hawaii, where that abuse was alleged to have taken place. Others say he was 15.

The issue of drugs, alcohol, and violence are troubling, but I think there are other factors at work here that also concern me. Someone like Singer, being openly gay, is particularly vulnerable to allegations like this. There are some fairly hedonistic gay subcultures within the US that have older gay teens willingly participating (as they pretty much always have) but where their willing participation is, by modern definition, abusive. If this lawsuit gains traction, participating in those subcultures, even infrequently, could have gotten even more dangerous. This whole case could even fuel more smears against gay men as predators.


Since everyone is moving in that direction, I've shuffled tokens along the map (Ash in the middle as requested)

The dancing lights reveal a dead-end chamber, largely made up of a pool but with a rise in the center as an island. The torch-like light of the spell is reflected back by small glinting objects on the island.

Being in front (and the corridor being narrow and bendy), I'll give Sharrd a perception check...
Sharrd Perception: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (13) + 6 = 19

Sharrd:
The water seems to have an undulating wave-motion to it... which is weird since it's inside, the area is relatively still and stable, and there are no other obvious sources of wave motion.


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If they were rolled up by players, I'd let the stats ride. I think the furor over uneven stats at the start is more than a bit overblown. These character will tend to get an additional +1 or +2 over most of their compatriots' die rolls - and that's not that big a deal as far as I'm concerned.


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Aaron Whitley wrote:

Also, thumbs down on the skill challenges. At least as far 4E did them (extremely poorly - they didn't understand the math behind them and got it backwards).

Skill challenges always seem interesting in theory but I have never seen them pulled off well.

A better formulation of skill challenge would be to have a fixed number of attempts and then rate level of success based on the results obtained. For example, a skill challenge may have 5 checks. 5 successes = decisive success, 4 successes = success, 3 success = marginal success, 2 successes = marginal failure, 1 success = failure. Something along those lines. And each level of success (or failure) has consequences appropriate to the magnitude of the task and how well the PCs did.


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GM Chyro wrote:


Say, early on, the party of lvl 1 can roll a sense motive against a merchant. (Maybe he wants to scam them over prices)
But when they reach say lvl 4, where would one set the DC on skill checks of the social skills for convincing or sense motive on, example, a prominent figure? (either a person in power or a special named NPC)

I generally don't scale for level. A 4th level PC should have a somewhat easier time telling if the basic merchant is lying about something when put to a direct question. However, what exactly is the nature of the lie? And will a discerning PC be able to figure out exactly what it is or merely that the merchant isn't telling the whole truth.

For example, there are market places in which haggling is the normal custom. Any PC with good investment in sense motive will detect virtually everybody as lying - so what good does it do? Everyone knows the haggling game involved misrepresentation of the true cost and the circumstances of the merchant and buyer both. That said, you could use it to feed information to the player "He's asking for this price but you get the impression he might accept much less."[/b] or "He's asking for this price, but you get the impression that's a just a wild attempt to see how high you'll go and he's not really firm about it."

And don't forget that Bluff comes with modifiers. If the lie is plausible or, better, if the PCs really want to believe him (and who wouldn't want to believe him if he's selling you something really good, right? You want to believe he's selling you a vorpal axe of wounding at cost, don't you?), you get to add +5 to his bluff check, making it that much harder to see through.


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Diego Rossi wrote:


The problem is that we have both extremes. People that want to search each nook and cranny, including the drawers content, in 2 minutes without ever entering the room, and GM that will have you spend 2 minutes for each 5' square.

I think that both interpretations are wrong, but I am sure there is people that disagree with me and feel that they are following the rules.

I think it's entirely fair to require 1 minute per 5' square that has anything complex to it, basically meaning any feature that would need more than a remote visual scan to search thoroughly. A desk, a wardrobe, a chest, a case of books, whatever. It is obviously impossible to thoroughly search any of these from the entrance to the room. You might notice that the chest is really a mimic that way, but you can't find the hidden compartment in a desk drawer without going to it and searching it close up.

If you were to insist that you could, I'd be imposing some of the modifiers from the Perception list, including the invisible modifier for anything not visually detectable from your vantage point.


Sharrd's lights reveal more bending caverns off to the left - extending beyond the light's ability to penetrate the darkness. To the right, it appears that the cavern eventually opens out into another chamber.


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phantom1592 wrote:


Well, PERSONALLY.. I agree completely. I miss the divine/Arcane split in 2E. Wizards don't get healing, because healing came from the gods. It was something that they couldn't master.

Now... They have bards that cast Arcanely... but get healing spells and it throws that whole idea out the window. I've never been a fan of that. If there is an arcane way to cast a spell.... wizards should be able to do it. It's what they DO...

I don't think it's necessarily bad to have a spell list that mixes divine and arcane styles of spells. The bard's list has a nice eclecticism to it that, I think, works well for a support-oriented class.

I'd consider it a problematic philosophy to say that wizards should have access to every arcane-style magic out there in the game. Aside from giving the wizards even more flexibility (when they don't need it), I think it undermines the possibility of having an arcane class with a really distinct spell list - which would be unfortunate. I think arcane classes should be distinct not just because things not on their spell lists but also because of their spell lists. That's another method of bringing flavor. And if the wizard can imitate that flavor, then we're diluting part of the distinctiveness of classes.


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DivergentZen wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:
He does not take the penalty if he chooses to forego the extra attack from wielding the second weapon.
And when he's only allowed to make a single attack, e.g., after taking a move action?

For characters who only normally get one attack, that's correct. For characters that normally get multiple attacks based on their Base Attack Bonus (such as those with a BAB of +6 or higher), they can still get multiple attacks using their normal BAB-based attacks without invoking the two-weapon penalty. It's when they gain the extra attack that TWF would give them that they must take the penalty.


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Tequila Sunrise wrote:
I literally can't imagine how tradition can outweigh positive change in the mind of a traditionalist.

You might consider the idea that "positive" change in a game's system is a subjective judgment. From your point of view, a particular change like wizards casting healing spells may be a positive change. But for others, it's a negative change because it dilutes one of the factors that makes Pathfinder different from other games that don't put as much emphasis on a character's class. And that's without even getting into the issue of putting yet more magical tools in an over-broad wizard's toolkit (something that's already an issue in the game rules).


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He does not take the penalty if he chooses to forego the extra attack from wielding the second weapon.


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Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:
So who cares if the separation of healing magic from wizards is a tradition? It's D&D/Pathfinder's tradition. And that's good enough.
Truly, you Lawful types are a different species. ;)

There's no point shilly shallying around the issue. The game has sacred cows. They are part of what gives the game its distinct identity. What's the point in killing them? If you don't like them, play something else. If you must change them, change them at your own table. Why gripe to the rest of the fan-base?


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master_marshmallow wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
There really isn't any justification for it, at all, other than some bizarre nostalgic tradition-suck that mandates keeping clerics in the game.
What would the game look like if there were no armored divine casters, and all spellcasters were squishy and there was only one spell list?

1) Boring, or

2) Like a different game.

So who cares if the separation of healing magic from wizards is a tradition? It's D&D/Pathfinder's tradition. And that's good enough.


There was a church supply store in the area that put up a sign saying "Happy
Easter." Some wag rearranged the letters into "Happy Teaser" and it stayed up for over a year. I wish I had a photo.?


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You won't see a significant hit to game balance by giving fighters, paladins, clerics, and sorcerers 2 additional skill points per level. The wizard easily makes up for the lack by investing in intelligence so he doesn't need them.


While the light from the cantrip doesn't illuminate the entire area perfectly, Sharrd can see enough that it becomes clear that the open area meets back with the broad, main passage of the caverns.


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OK, 2 hours into a thread and someone's already taking pot shots at the OP? Kind of jumping to conclusions, aren't you, Jiggy?


Away to the right, the cavern seems to branch yet again while to the left a wider chamber appears to open up. The sound of dripping water seems to come more strongly from the right than from the left (although the whole cavern complex is damp and drippy in general).


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Kthulhu wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:
LazarX wrote:


I suspect those licenses probably have a fixed lifetime maybe 20 years or so, unless they somehow made a deal for a perpetual license.
They're probably not limited in that way unless the studio with the franchise license leaves the characters idle. In other words, my bet is that as long as Fox is making X-Men movies, the license is theirs. Once they stop, then I'd bet the rights would be lost to them after a fixed period of time.
At least you added the "probably". I find it amusing that so many people like to pretend that they have absolute knowledge of what the contracts entail.

It doesn't take that much work to look at the Daredevil case and Marvel regaining the license after Fox failed to make another DD flick to infer that's probably how the other licensing contracts are set up.


The lights reveal a little more of the passages, but with the bends of the rough cavern, little more can be gleaned from your current location.

There are no signs of reaction from any creatures or other residents of the caverns to the dancing lights.


Heck no, I don't mind. That's good thinking for a mobile spell (would also be good for flaming sphere). In fact, if interested, we could make a few spell area templates too.


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LazarX wrote:


I suspect those licenses probably have a fixed lifetime maybe 20 years or so, unless they somehow made a deal for a perpetual license.

They're probably not limited in that way unless the studio with the franchise license leaves the characters idle. In other words, my bet is that as long as Fox is making X-Men movies, the license is theirs. Once they stop, then I'd bet the rights would be lost to them after a fixed period of time.


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andreww wrote:

Meh, it is a fairly terrible spell which does weak damage which does not scale at all. If you think doing 18 damage is a good use of your action at level 9 then I just don't know what to say other than that CR9 opponents have on average around 115hp.

The reason the damage doesn't scale well with 3e/PF is because it's still using a 2e scale when 3e recalibrated the scales. Pretty much all of the major evocation spells have the same problem.


From the spider's lair, the dancing lights can shed enough light to illuminate the other passage deeper into the cliff cavern. It goes a little distance and then reaches a branching in the passageway. The air feels increasingly damp and the sound of dripping water is fairly constant deeper in.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:


Given the strong, smart, capable women in the film, I was shocked that it actually failed in this measure.

Given that strong, smart, capable women are in this film and and it doesn't pass the test I think that says more about the test than the movie.

Well, it is from an old comic strip, after all. It was meant to feed a joke not become a consistent, reliable means of feminist analysis.


"I disagree, Grimaldus. We must keep secrets from Taldor at large, not necessarily from our fellow Pathfinders. I do not think it would be inappropriate to let Tanselle know some of the info we were given. Nor do I think the paintings need to be destroyed, at least not without seeking more information first. These scenes are detailed enough that they may depict specific places. We should try to determine that for certain. Perhaps an expert in art or Cassomir architecture."


Between the two of them, Sharrd and Masamune smash the spider like… well… like a bug. It collapses into mass on the floor with its legs tightly curling up (except the one that Masamune severed).

Alara may still be weakened a bit by the poison, but at least now she seems to be in no danger of getting worse. The spider's bite was painful, but the venom did comparatively little harm.

With the immediate excitement past, you are able to get a decent look about the cavern. It appears to be a semi-regular lair of some hunting creature (probably the spider in this case). There are no significant webs around, but then, this appears to be a hunting spider rather than a web-spinning one. The prostrate form it was fussing over before appears to be the corpse of a fairly large lizard - a giant gecko (and by giant, I mean about 3 feet long or so rather than the size of a more normal gecko).


OK, moved everyone who needed moving to spots that seemed in line with what you said. Masamune, without some special abilities, you pretty much need a straight line to charge. That said, hitting an AC of 21 was quite sufficient as well and I will treat your AC as full value. And though Piper posted after Masamune, I'll consider the buff to be in effect for the whole player turn and Masamune not only actually hit AC 22 but also did an additional point of damage.

Masamune and Alara pass each other, one on the way in, the other on the way out. Somewhat bewildered, the spider fails to react quickly enough to the samurai's attack and pays a small price.

The spider is not that badly hurt and remains undaunted by the prospect of being flanked (it is pretty dumb). Reacting to the pain of the sword blow, it tries to bite Masamune, but is foiled by the swordsman's superior defenses.
Spider Bite: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (13) + 2 = 15

And then it's the party's turn. By the way, Piper, did you want to move when you started the inspire courage song? You could have taken a move action. I'd understand staying put since Alara is out there now, but I thought I'd ask and allow you to be a move action up cavern if you wanted before the next actions start.

Alara, please roll me a Fortitude Save at the start of your action. The die roller may be the same whether it's me entering the tag or not,but I know some people prefer to roll their own saves and when it works with the flow of the player actions, I'll have you do them.


Best of luck to you and the Mrs and congratulations.


Though the spider has been oblivious to Alara's presence so far, once she skulks out into the room, its many eyes spy her.

The spider has darkvision and the darkness, without any other cover or special ability, is insufficient to keep Alara successfully hidden.

Initiative
Alara: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (10) + 3 = 13
Sharrd: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (6) + 1 = 7
Ash: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (13) + 1 = 14
Piper: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (13) + 2 = 15
Masamune: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (9) + 1 = 10
Spider: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (16) + 3 = 19

The spider reacts with a surprising alacrity, scuttling in and biting at Alara with its mandibles in a flurry of skin-crawly (and hairy) legs just as the dancing lights flicker into being (giving you all a nice view of its creepiness).
Spider bite: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (17) + 2 = 19
Bite damage: 1d6 ⇒ 6
Alara Fortitude Save: 1d20 + 1 ⇒ (9) + 1 = 10
Poison damage: 1d2 ⇒ 2

Its mandibles catch Alara, inflicting 6 points of hit point damage to the ninja. But it also inflicts a bit of lassitude on her. She takes 2 points of Strength damage from the venom of the bite (-1 to all Str based effects - skills, checks, damage with melee, etc).

That gives us Piper, Ash, Alara, Masamune, and Sharrd - your turn. Go in any order you choose (names listed in dice order, FYI) The dancing lights, started pre-combat, are in full effect so there is no significant concealment within about 20 feet of the spider.


Ash let me know he'd be a little sporadic so I'll NPC him as needed. At this point, since he wants to be able to help anybody with a channel, he's moving to the middle of the pack. Masamune, I put you right in front of him since you're ready for a close-in fight.

The caverns rapidly become pretty dark for the humans in the group. The chamber ahead appears quite dark to their eyes and even Alara's vision only penetrates it partially.
So, concealment will apply without the use of a light source.

Spider Senses: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (6) + 4 = 10
From Alara's location peering around the bend in the cavern, it seems the spider has still not noticed her.


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Caineach wrote:

So, overall I really liked the movie, but did anyone else have an issue with the fact that all of the intelligence they had came from a bad guy deciding he would tell Captain A his evil plot just before he was killed?

I hate when plot critical elements rely on intelligent characters being insanely dumb, like villains gloating.

Uh, you may have already noticed this, but there are whole genres of movies that you are unsuited to viewing if this is really the case.


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loaba wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:
But it's not an entirely separate issue at all since the method of stat generation exacerbates MAD vs SAD issues.

MAD vs SAD (if they even exist) is a completely separate debate that revolves around individual class requirements, X class needs more than Y class.

Point Buy vs Random Generation is about 1.) preference and 2.) fairness. The original method of stat generation was 3d6-in-order and all other methods of that style were developed to be more fair.

The fact that Point Buy even exists is because rolling for stats is completely unfair.

Unless the players are rolling a different number of dice or some are definitely loaded, rolling is fair as a method of generation. The results may not be equal, but the process was just as fair as starting with point buy - which may also produce unequal results depending on the skill of the player and the character class he is building toward (back to the SAD/MAD issue).


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loaba wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Dice rolling, in general and statistically-speaking, favors SAD classes like wizard a lot less than point-buy systems do.

If you're caught up in SAD and MAD, that's a just a whole other issue. Question is random stat generation vs. point buy stat generation.

If we want to ask sub-questions, then riddle me this; why is a randomly generated 8 better than a point-buy 8? I get the feeling the random rollers feel like their 8 is some kind of badge of honor, while those same Randomites look down on the P-B'er and his 8 (and probable 18).

But it's not an entirely separate issue at all since the method of stat generation exacerbates MAD vs SAD issues.

As far as why a randomly rolled 8 is better than a bought one, it's not a question of being better or a badge of honor or something like that. The rolled 8 (or lower stat) is viewed more sympathetically because it was what the dice left you with whereas the bought stat is dumped to that level and compensated with more points to pump a stat elsewhere. If it ends up causing trouble, the dumper deliberately asked for it while the roller made the best of what he got.


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loaba wrote:
And that makes the utter randomness of rolling for stats "better"?

As far as I'm concerned, it does. The issue of characters having different results from the rolls doesn't bother me, even if one is significantly more lucky than another.


The leggy creature pays Alara no heed (of course, she's being super silent, as it turns out) as she retreats from confrontation and scouts out the other cave branch. This one is wider, though the ceiling is no higher than the narrower tunnel at about 7 feet or so. It is also much wetter. There is quite a bit of brackish, standing water in this direction, even spanning all the way across the tunnel at about the furthest distance Alara can see before the light from the cave mouth is finally too weak to support even her sharp eyes.


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Oh, if only we had some moron constantly threadcrapping in here.

;)


The natural cave walls and ceiling have a claustrophobic presence being relatively narrow and low (the ceiling is only about 7 feet high). There is a constant dripping sound and the smell of wet limestone pervades the air.

The chamber Alara peers into is getting pretty dark so she's peering into a dim gloom. But she can make out the motion of a creature that seems to be all legs as it scuttles about on some unmoving form lying on the cave floor. It doesn't act like it has noticed her.


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Lakesidefantasy wrote:

I am surprised by the apparently prevalent practice of allowing Players to roll their scores without the Dungeon Master as witness. Smells like a strawman to me.

If your game cannot facilitate witnessed rolls then I would totally suggest using a Point-Buy method.

I trust my players but I still like to have them all together to roll up PCs. That way they can collectively cheer good stats, commiserate over bad scores, offer each other advice, egg each other on, and otherwise coordinate how they're building their characters. Makes for a good introductory session to the campaign.


Alara, with her scouting, has been able to see that the branch of the cavern that goes south (keep in mind North is to the right side of the map) is partly flooded. The direction she takes, however, is dryer and leads up a slight incline. She is able to tell that the cave in that direction opens to a wider area about 15 feet ahead.

The scout also hears the sound of motion up ahead. Whatever it is, it sounds fairly heavy - perhaps it's the sound of something being dragged or at least moved about on the ground.


The 3 wakizashi and the name plate seem about all that has any likely value from the wreck site, and even then that value may not be terribly high in monetary terms.

Finding the cave marked on the map turns out to be fairly easy. With a little help from Tomás and his boat in negotiating another channel of the river, you find what appears to be a substantial track - very much like the one you noted coming out of the Licktoad village - and it takes you right to ...

A fifty-foot-high cliff rises along the marsh's southern border, its face a thick tangle of jutting rocks and bright green vines and nettles. A curtain of these thick nettle vines partially conceals a cave opening at the base of the cliff, though the track, in effect, gives its secret away.

I've posted a new map - link at the top of the page and repeated here: Brinestump Cavern map

As far as healing up Sharrd's wounds, we can assume that happens on the way. From Ash's spells or from the wand? I'll toss the die: Cure Light wounds: 1d8 ⇒ 3
So Sharrd gets back 3 (+1 if the wand, +2 if from Ash's personal spells) hit points


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Prethen wrote:
I learned a bunch of stuff on this thread, which is especially usefully as being a novice GM. I'm glad I posted it. Thanks guys!

That's why this peanut gallery is here.


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Not seeing bulletproof hide on this character, so it's not like he has Hulk's durability.


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Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

I don't believe that black people or women are less intelligent or intrinsically less capable than white people or men. This used to be believed, but we've moved beyond that.

So, why do black people (for example) need extra help? Why do they, as a group, get lower grades? It's not because they are less intelligent, but because of social, economic and cultural factors.

I fully support the idea of levelling the playing field by providing programs that allow a good education for all. But it would be wrong for this help to be aimed at 'black people', it should be aimed at those whose socio-economic circumstances would prevent them getting that education, since that is the problem not skin colour. And I support this even knowing that the majority of those who would benefit from such programs are black.

Because the skin colour should not be the basis of how we treat people.

But since skin color did determine how we treated people, leading to centuries of negative discrimination that has a real effect on people today, we set up ways to ameliorate those problems targeting the people who are affected. That's not "reverse discrimination," which is pretty much just a privilege-protection whine. It's remediation. And considering there are still areas of the United States working pretty hard to marginalize black people despite the deranged assertions of the Supreme Court, I certainly don't think we're past the point where we can consider those remediation programs no longer necessary or appropriate.

Now, it may well be that the poor people, in general, deserve remediation as well considering the exploitation they've suffered (and continue to suffer) at the hands of economically and politically dominant classes. But you may notice that most industrialized countries have programs for that too.


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Freehold DM wrote:

Why must things be separated at all?

America tried separate but equal. It didn't work, and not for the reasons most think of today. What's wrong here is wrong. Violence against women may be particularly odious, but violence against anyone is wrong. I'm all for helping the victims of violence, but I think creating a hierarchy where one type of violence is somehow worse isn't the right way to go about it.

Because they are, in many ways, separate problems with different causes, different overall effects on society, and have different solutions. Not all violence is the same.


With a bit of work, the name plate comes off (and in one piece, this time).

As far as the origin of the skeletons, you find no sign of them coming from anywhere else. The ground is disturbed where they stood up out of the mud and water but if there is any trail into those locations, you have been unable to find it. The local terrain, in truth, would make any such tracks not last long. By tomorrow, you can pretty much guess that any evidence that these skeletons rose out of the mud will be gone...


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I see the backlash is alive and well with some posters on this message board.


Better prep that featherfall.


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It's kind of hard to proofread a character sheet without the whole thing (or most of it) being presented. There's probably something hinky in it but figuring out what it is would be speculation without more info.

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