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Mynafee Gorse

Bill Dunn's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 4,216 posts (4,483 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 12 aliases.


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Victor Zajic wrote:
I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with a lot of the posters in the thread. Deliberately killing a paladin in good standing is always going to be an evil act in a game I'm running. There are a lot of alternatives to killing the paladin that would stop him from screwing up your plan.

Yeah, I have to agree that murdering the paladin is taking things too far and I'd make sure there were repercussions. One evil act isn't exactly going to change your alignment, but I'd start scrutinizing behavior a bit more if that's your answer to a meddlesome do-gooder.

That said, this is an issue you probably need to resolve away from the table and set what levels of cooperation and conflict are expected from all of the players.

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Tacticslion wrote:
Not that I disagree, but it's worth noting that the primary problem with Crafting + Leadership is the crafting rules rather than the leadership ones. The removal of XP as a component of crafting effectively broke the door wide open in terms of what can be made and by whom.

The XP issue, in my experience is a minor one. Gold and time have always been the primary limiting factors for item creation. The XP cost never gets high enough to be the prime factor.

And yes, I have let a PC have a cohort to do his item crafting. She made some good stuff, but the effect wasn't a game breaking at all.

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Zyonel wrote:

I am wanting to play an Ifrit and being able to blast fire spells to potentially burn down enemy ships.

Enemy ships may be hard to burn, but long ranged area effect spells can be really useful. The group I'm playing in is short of those so I had to buy a wand of fireball.

If you want to use fire for a lot of things, that's fine. But since underwater adventuring is a predictable event for this AP, make sure fire isn't the only tool in your kit.

I'm OK with the Advanced Class Guide. If anything gets out of hand with any of the books or combinations, I would ask the player to tone things down (or pick up the pace, if lagging).

OK, we'll go with six 2-person watches for the time being.

The area you are initially traveling in is known for goblin tribes but it is also fairly well controlled these days. Masamune and Shalelu are able to find some sign of goblin movement, but only minor and typical of their normal, day to day activities. None manage to make themselves directly known to the caravan, keeping a low profile to stay away from the wrath of the caravan.

The journey takes you first through the town of Galduria - a place Rawnie and Koya know best as the site of the Twilight Academy - an exclusive wizard academy that also specializes in understanding the imagery of the Harrow. Though Rawnie's talents for magic are a natural gift and the academy's main students are on the wizard's path, she has had contact with several of the masters of the academy in the past and found their knowledge of the Harrow to be deep. Unfortunately, the caravan can only spend a night in the town, restocking a few supplies before it must move on toward points north.

You encounter Ziomarra, one of the academy masters, at the inn's common room telling you that she saw you in a dream the night before and had to meet. Much of the dream was lost memory but she distinctly remembers seeing you standing in the moonlight with your breath steaming. The moon's light turned red before being blotted out by a flock of black birds. She is unable to elaborate on what that dream might mean.

It may be nothing, but Piper can't seem to avoid noticing crows about the town. There seem to be quite a few, maybe even more than usual. They don't seem to act abnormally, but even one or two of the locals mention there seem to be an unusual number of them about.

The next stop, as the caravan takes the road north along the western lakeshore, is Wolf's Ear. The town itself has a rusticness to it with most of the buildings made from barely finished logs from the Churlwood - the forest within easy reach of the town. Less Varisian and more Ulfen in culture, the people too have a certain air about them - an untamedness. No problems arise, but the place definitely has an "otherness" about it.

The normally stalwart Duty is a bit more nervous than usual around the town. He doesn't seem to like the place much, though exactly why you are not sure. The area seems unusually densely populated with substantial predators like wolves and bear based on the tracks you've seen as you and Shalelu have been scouting. But there also seems to be a substantial population of wild boar that could attract them. The forest seems to be well-populated, but all the two of you manage to spy is small game.

The road continues along the Lampblack River toward Ravenmoor. Sandru elects to camp on the opposite side of the river from the town. From experience, he knows they don't take well to outsiders visiting them.

Knowing the general region fairly well, Ash knows that the town has recently been subjected to an "inquisition" or sorts. Apparently, their worship of Desna had become fairly corrupt over the years with town elders being involved in some skullduggery involving a tax collector. Authorities from Magnimar put things to right but the town has not quite recovered. A team of Desnan clerics is now ruling the town until it can once again rule itself (under the sovereignty of Magnimar, that is).

After a brief camp, the caravan then heads back to the coast and Roderic's Cove for a couple of days of rest and resupply before setting out into less well-populated territory. There's a general tension that can be felt in Roderic's Cove, only recently having fallen into Riddleport's sphere of influence. The place seems pleasant enough and no incidents occur before you are all ready to hit the wilder country on the way to Brinewall.

You notice the caravan seems to get an unusual amount of attention - perhaps rogues casing the wagons for valuables or a merchant's spies. They seem easily deterred given the size and makeup of the caravan, though, and their presence never seems to lead to items going "missing" or "falling off the wagon". Once it becomes clear that Sandru isn't selling anything of substance in either Roderic's Cove or Riddleport, interest seems to wane.

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Tamec wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:
I'm thinking along the lines of a bunch of Animaniacs and not D&D or PF characters
What game are you playing, every night I game I tend to find people playing pfs characters like Yacko Wacko and Dot...or Pinky and the Brain

We're a lot closer to Pirates of the Caribbean - it helps that we're playing Skull and Shackles. So, no bologna in our slacks nor nightly schemes to take over the world. But there is rum, criminal violence, hot women, and questionable morals.

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Or you know.. you can take out the guy with the RPG... you know, the weapon that takes out YOUR HEAVY ARMOR AND pretty much kills you by getting close enough...

Depends on what you're own job is. All you probably need to do is force the guy with the RPG into cover - that's what your grunts with firepower do. If you really want to disrupt a typical unit, shoot the command and communications. That means officers and radio-men.

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N N 959 wrote:

The first time I herd toon I immediately understood why it was used. I did not think it silly. I can't control what people think. What I can control is what I intend. If someone insists on inferring something not intended, then that's their problem.

Unless there are other entirely understandable inferences that are made that are not intended or that lead to misunderstandings.

I find "toon" a jarring bit of jargon for a character for a number of reasons:

- it has been used before in the Toon RPG - specifically related to cartoon characters so every time I see someone using the term, I'm thinking along the lines of a bunch of Animaniacs and not D&D or PF characters

- it refers to a visually animated medium whereas most pen and paper RPG characters are fundamentally imagined or represented with miniatures or counters that are static images

You may not be able to absolutely control what other people think but you can do a lot more than just throw your intentions out there and that's because many of the implications of the words you use are predictable. Descriptive language pretty much depends on it.

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Jiggy wrote:

Marc, there is space in between "I'm have a conscious, intellectual desire to choose the most efficient terminology in all cases in an effort to shave a few seconds off of my conversations" and "I'm lazy".


People using shorthand for common terms is normal, and you do it too.

People do, and misunderstandings often ensue depending on the context. I work with ROI - but if I say that at different areas of the company I work for, it means two different things. Using the abbreviation POC is even worse because it now means three things.

If you're discussing things face to face, it's easy to ask for and gain immediate clarification when unknown jargon is used. But when engaging in written communication, clarity is important. On a messageboard, it may take hours to get a clarification if your readers don't understand what you meant the first time.

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Hawkmoon269 wrote:

Just to throw the info out there, the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game is another licensed product line. From what I understand, Paizo has only two employees whose sole responsibility involves the card game, Tanis O'Conner and Brian Campbell. Lone Shark Games seems to have the bulk of the developers for it (Mike Selinker, Chad Brown, and Gaby Weilding). Vic obviously puts time into it as well, but I'm sure it is far from his sole responsibility.

I'm not positive, but it doesn't look like a licensed product line to me (I'm not near the box and its art so I can't look at that and see if it has additional logos or text that mentions licenses though I do have one of the free PDFs of the rules handy). It looks more like contracted work to me. Lone Shark gets hired to do the design work for Paizo, not Lone Shark licenses the Pathfinder IP to produce the game as their own publication.

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Anzyr wrote:

It's super easy for an 8 STR Wizard to get to 51 (the extra 1 is critical) STR. There's these spells called Marionette Possession and Magic Jar that let you possess a super high STR creature (either one you summon or make a Simulacrum of, or bind, or dominate, or...). Tack on a +6 belt, some neat buff spells like Blood Rage and your easily hitting 51 if not higher. Hell I have a breakdown for if you want to get to 51 STR while hanging out in your regular old body. And since you have 51 STR, you never have to worry about going unconscious after using Blood Money. Mind you I recommend having a summoned/bound/simulacrum with Heal just ready an action to cast it on you immediately after you cast Blood Money, just for safety.

There's an easy solution to this if this isn't your style of play - say no. If you'd rather go adventuring rather than play the puzzle game you're describing here - just go and do it. And if you're GMing and you've got players who want to do this but you don't? Don't run the game for them.

On the other hand, if this is what you want to do - what's the problem? Honestly, if you're giving the PCs carte blanche on the sources to the point that you're giving them access to creatures with approximately 50 strength, then why are you worrying about frequent wishing?

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houstonderek wrote:

I think the need to get rid of the "unfun" parts of magic user play ruined what balance AD&D fostered. All of the "unfun" stuff was what kept them from dominating the game.

I think there's a lot of truth to this.

The other major elements to the difference are, I think:

1) The save DC/Saving Throw system. The old 1e/2e table desperately needed reform (thieves were totally screwed by it) and there are some symmetries of the d20 system that are nice. But the overall save bonuses are to low for weak saves and point buy stat arrays combined with single-attribute casting stats, multi-attribute defenses plays hob with the balance.

2) Easy magic item creation. Made casting stat boosters too easy to get, wizard-oriented items too easy to make, wands too flexible in role, and scrolls too cheap.

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houstonderek wrote:

And when you got to "Stoneskin" levels, the fighter generally only failed his save vs. spells on a one or a two.

Not really. In 1e and 2e, stoneskin was a 4th level spell so that means 7th level caster. And at that point, the 7th level fighter's save vs spells is still 13.

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Zhayne wrote:
Lyee wrote:
The second clearly isn't a nice idea for Pathfinder
Why not?

Because then you've turned a fantasy RPG suitable for all sorts of different types of play (in combat and out) into a mundane RPG + fantasy skirmish game. And that's a half-assed solution at best.

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SlimGauge wrote:

That'll be a case-by-case determination.

Ring of Foe Focus does not mention any sort of action.

Bellflower Tiller's Bellflower Crop ability requires a standard action.

Most spells that require something to be designated assume that doing so is included in the spell's casting, unless specified otherwise.

There is no blanket "designating is always THIS type of action" rule.

To echo this, most "designations" would take an action as described by the specific power, ability, or spell. For example, designating a target area for the summoned monster and the target it should attack would be part of the spellcasting action - which for summoned monsters is a full round action - administered at the time the spell's 1 round casting time is complete.

Other designations may be part of a move action, standard action, or any other action as long as an ability uses that kind of action and involves the act of "designating" something.

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kirowan wrote:

This is a delicate matter regarding Called shots rules. Eg/ A chain shirt is AC +4. Legs and arms are unprotected. When making a Called shot (-2), would you attack against AC 14 or an (unprotected) AC 10?
Rules as written are sometimes clumsy.

The rules aren't clumsy, they're abstract. Rather than worry about different places being protected in different ways, the whole body is given an abstracted defensive value that determines whether or not some place important was hit (rather than inconsequential - a "miss").

As others have pointed out, combatants are always looking to land a blow in a telling or vulnerable area. A target's Armor Class gives us a relative rating of how well-protected the target is from blows directed at it in general - many of which will be naturally off target for the really vulnerable areas the armor doesn't protect.

Called shot rules and hit locations have never really worked well in D&D combat. The combat system, with to hit rolls, AC, and hit points, doesn't really work with them because it doesn't want to get bogged down in too precise a simulation. Frankly, this is one of the reasons D&D has worked so well as a fantasy adventure game.

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Dennis Harry wrote:
Interesting. I have been running 3.5 for a long time and my players have always looked at their surroundings for advantages to assist in what they are doing.

That's the case with me too, but I will acknowledge that the presentation of a game, its tone, and other elements around it can profoundly change a player's orientation toward the game - and not always in rational ways.

Some groups found that 3e's focus on rules caused their players to do so as well - even myopically. Some groups found that 4e's focus on powers turned the game into a skirmish board game of shuffling power cards. And in both cases, some groups found the structure of those games liberating from problems they found with previous editions (that many other players never even had).

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Kolokotroni wrote:
Assuming the half god is not of an evil alignment (given they want heroes I am assuming as such) I dont see an issue unless your deity has some prohibition against procreation out of wedlock. Its certainly not against any general paladin's code. Especially if this demigod is some agent of good.

I'm of this mind as well. Someone like Erastil might be a bit disapproving of one-night stands given his traditionalism and it might run afoul of some LG deities in other sources like Berronar Truesilver in the Forgotten Realms. But those would all be because of the specific personality or portfolio of the gods in question - not because of anything inherently paladin-based.

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Jiggy wrote:
Wow, I don't think I've ever had a theater experience with a particularly disruptive person. On the off chance that a phone rings or something, I tend to spot someone frantically rushing to shut it off while hunching their shoulders in a sort of "slump of shame". Maybe I'm just lucky? Then again, my sample size is probably on the small side: for the money factor alone, I'll wait for Redbox for most movies. I only go to the theater for very "grand" movies that should be seen on a big screen.

I don't have bad experiences with other theater-goers very often either and I go to a fair number of them. Maybe midwest nice applies to movie-going behavior. Or maybe other people in this thread are movie-douche magnets. Either way, my experiences are usually pretty good and I doubt it's just because of good luck.

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Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

How does the economy work in the REAL world?

Anyone who claims to know is lying to you.

Q: What do you when you take all of the economists in the world and lay them down end to end?

A: Everybody pointing in a different direction.

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I make my players roll when I'm GMing. I have them use 4d6, drop lowest, roll up 2 sets, take the set you prefer.

OK, but then I think the arrows should go into the Acquired or Given area, right? Otherwise, they contribute to the gained gold at the top of the spreadsheet in D1 but aren't removed from the total in B1. That is, if I understand the intention of the spreadsheet's structure...

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Corrik wrote:
Wheldrake wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Wheldrake wrote:
Yes, since it takes a crafter of 15+ level to craft a +5 sword (and so on) those really cool magic weapons can't be cranked out by just anybody.
No, it doesn't. For a +5 DC modifier, you can craft it as soon as you have the feat and the gold.

Although that may be RAW, it's a patently ridiculous loophole in the magic crafting rules. Caster level requirements should be hard limits that you can never get around simply by adding a measly +5 to your crafting DC.

Again, I realize that is correct according to RAW, but IMHO any sane DM should make the caster level requirements hard limits, or else the whole system just falls apart. And I do not believe that was the RAI of the +5 DC caveat.

They have had several reprints to change that rule if it wasn't working as intended.

I don't think they need to. Consider the magic item crafting rules. Being able to skip a prerequisite for a +5 DC is a general rule. The caster level rules for arms and armor are called out as special prerequisites. As I see it, those are specific rules trumping general. So, no skipping the special level requirements for arms and armor for a +5 DC...

But once purchasing is finished (which we can handle in plenty of time in the discussion thread, it's time to set out...

Finally, Sandru's preparations are complete. Ameiko has placed the care of her home and the Rusty Dragon in the hands of her staff. And the caravan is ready to set out. Koya and Rawnie are able to determine that initial portents are favorable, a fact that seems to make Sandru's Varisian drivers happy. With Shalelu and Masamune acting as scouts, riding (or in Shalelu's case, walking) on ahead, the caravan sets out from Sandpoint. A fairly large group of well-wishers is in attendance to see the travelers off, including, of course, Sheriff Belor Hemlock.

As the caravan moves north along the old coast road, routines set in fairly quickly. Masamune and Shalelu periodically range outward and report back. The caravan stops for midday rests and food, with the drivers unharnessing the horses to give them respite from their burdens. An hour or so before dusk, Sandru calls a halt to the caravan and camp is set up. Ameiko cooks at all meals, though she recruits occasional help as well. Nighttime is spent with the wagons drawn close, the horses 'penned' in the middle, and with people holding watches...

Let me know what sorts of watches you want to keep. All of the NPCs are available - Sandru generally suggests having 2 people on watch given your plentiful numbers. That means Bevelek, Vankor, and Eugeni are available watch with people - as are Koya, Shalelu, Sandru, and Ameiko.

As far as buying things in town, masterwork items are readily available for the list price (generally 300+cost of weapon or 150+cost of armor). Significant magic, not many of you can easily afford at this point. I confess I'm not sure how much you have available to me right now because I'm not sure the spreadsheet Masamune put together is up to date with accounting how the money is apportioned out or handled once sold. Should the magic arrows go in the Acquired/Given column? Right now, they show up in the figures as if they were sold...

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Jiggy wrote:

I've never seen anyone try to get away with less. Ever. Rather, what you describe here is the group of people who are feeling (accurately or not) pointed at when certain posters talk about people who don't care about roleplaying.

I've seen it and didn't like it, so that's why I push any player trying that to do more when I run games.

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Jiggy wrote:

There are people who want to play a character that they themselves are not capable of representing completely, who nevertheless care a great deal about roleplaying, immersion, and the fun of the other players; and are interested in far, far more than just "diplomacy-ing people", punching faces and counting loot.

I don't understand why it is hard for you to accept that this category of people exists.

I think people are getting a bit overly emotional about his issue right now. I can totally see where the secret fire is coming from. If a player takes no effort to role play - and like he said, we're not talking rhetoric here - when other players are willing to make the effort then I think the game suffers for it.

And here, I'm not talking about always talking in character or with flowery speeches that exactly fit their Charismas. I'm looking for an effort to put together the major points of an attempt at diplomacy, the tactics used, and all fitting with the PC's perspective and what they could and would understand of the situation. If the player can do it in character, all the better.

But if someone wants to just say "I use diplomacy on him" and roll... they can do that at another table.

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In the PF campaigns I participate in, we've done it a few ways depending on the GM and the specific setting.

Shackled City (technically 3.5 but about the same) - there was one well-known magic shop and I adjusted its inventory every time the PCs leveled up, bought stuff from it, or sold stuff to it. Anything else had to be either commissioned from the local wizard academy or temples or had to be imported from another location. I didn't do too much to restrict what was available - just what was readily available.

Council of Thieves - Generally followed the 75% availability rule but handled it via local shops. With Westcrown being such a metropolis (even if in decline), I thought it would be best to provide a local neighborhood of shops that the PCs would live around and provide them some local grounding. We role played out several meetings at shops with PCs asking about enchanted items. The local weaponsmiths had weapons, armorers had armor, and so on. A couple of curio places had more general and varied items. But the availability was based on the 75% guideline unless the items were particularly rare or silvered. Silvered items had to be obtained under the table and that meant forging a good relationship with the merchant first. Hey, it was in Cheliax, after all. If silvered weapons aren't controlled, they sure should be.
One of the PCs - a dwarven monk - also took master craftsman and craft wondrous items so he could use his jeweler's skill to make general magic items.

Skull and Shackles - in this case I'm a player so another GM is in charge. He has us basically gathering information if we're looking for specific items. That will clue us in on whether or not there's an item we want about and the owner is looking for buyers.

And for a 3e-based classic modules campaign in which the PCs happened to do a major service for a wealthy and powerful merchant - I gave them discounts on any magic items commissioned through his firm. That gave them the chance to request what they want and get a price break not quite as good as if they had craft it themselves. In that campaign, I also let a sorcerer have a cohort mystic theurge who spent most of her feats on crafting. Obviously, they had a reasonably good source of custom magic items once that was in play.

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We may not have an official announcement but that doesn't mean we are totally lacking all information. According to an interview:

ENWorld, August 26, 2014 wrote:

Yea I was going to ask about that [PDF sales]…

You know we haven’t announced anything official yet, but I’d be surprised if we released the PDF to be exactly as the book. Because I think that we’ll sit down and look at a PDF format of the book and say well what’s the best format that could take? It really does make good sense to have it sort of stripped down and in a utilitarian layout.

Because you know what? I’m actually just using this because I just want to get some rules at the table. Maybe I just want to be on a plane or just sitting around and want a quick reference that’s a quick read and just the information I want. So what does that do to the [PDF] design? We strip out a lot of the art and make it utilitarian. Or we break it up and actually the ebook version is actually three books, we’ve broken it up into three parts, and each topic is now a separate book. So maybe I’m playing a Wizard, and I’m just using the Basic D&D, but I want more spells… so I’m just wanting the spell chapters, so maybe I spend 5 bucks or 2 bucks just so I have that indexed or bookmarked and can quickly reference my spells. You know, what is the usefulness of that? Just as a bibliophile wants the whole book as a physical artifact, the digital only user, well, what is the best way for them to get access to the game.

So there is nothing concrete yet, but those are just some of the possibilities being discussed?

Yea exactly. Especially with the Dungeonscape Tool that Trapdoor [Technologies] is working on, and how they are going to approach things and what features they are going to have, could that kinda feed that need? Because we asked that it be iOS, Android, PC, so maybe you can just download the app and then buy the say Fighter packet and however we’re breaking it down, so are we really going to need to sell a separate PDF because actually the best way is to buy the tool, and the tool is also populating my database and I can make characters, then maybe I just don’t necessarily need the PDF. So a lot of it is just trying to figure out where things are with what they’re [Trapdoor Technologies] is doing, and we just don’t want to rush into something and then you’re like but I just bought the PDF and then the tools came out, and now I’m paying twice for the same content, that would make you upset. So it’s really just figuring out what is the best thing for the gaming audience at this point.

Nothing "official" but enough to infer that PDFs aren't on the immediate horizon. And for those groups who prefer the electronic format but want to get playing 5e as soon as possible, that's an inconvenience, so I can understand the grumble.

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Emmanuel Nouvellon-Pugh wrote:


This what?

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Diego Rossi wrote:

Casting Purify food and drink is enough to make it kosher?

I wouldn't think so. Process is extremely important. Taking something processed in a non-kosher manner and using magic to purify it doesn't change the process involved.

Now, purifying the food/drink could be an important part of the process...

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You may notice that diplomacy says it enables characters to change the attitudes of non-player characters. It doesn't say you can change the attitude of the other PCs - for that you need to succeed on your real life diplomacy and powers of persuasion.

That doesn't mean that diplomacy, bluff, and other skills aren't useful in portraying how the PCs perceive each other. A good diplomacy check here might lead a GM to tell the moonshiner that "the other character makes a passionate argument that distilling that alcohol will make Baby Erastil cry that you find emotionally moving, bringing an unbidden tear to your own eye - but the choice is, of course, up to you."

And I still don't understand how copying a recipe for poteen would be evil.

Piper Hemlock wrote:


He writes to Habe. 'As far as I know, he's been like this since mom died giving birth to me. You said that he's been getting worse. I saw him before my team went into the marsh to deal with the goblins. He wasn't rambling about some Great Fall. Any theories about the drastic shift from hurting me to hurting everyone?'

"It could be a brain fever. It could be your return from Absalom has reactivated and accelerated the mental deterioration that started with the unresolved grief he held for your mother. Not that you should blame yourself for this," Habe is quick to clarify. "But I am interested to see how he reacts fully sequestered from any outside reference to you. I intend to keep Vincent well isolated and see where we can go from there."

"And, rumor has it you will be leaving the area for a little while. That seems to me an auspcious sign for this new stage in Vincent's treatment. A new separation that should help me untangle the emotional knots bound up by your shared past. Good luck to you in your journeys."

Habe concludes his business with Sheriff Hemlock with the orderlies and constables securing Vincent in the sanitarium.

The sheriff sighs "Well. There he is, Piper. Doctor Habe will be sending me regular reports. I will collect them for you so you can see how Vincent is doing when you get back from your errand north, if you wish."

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Obligation? Nah, obligation is for lawful types. But as a CG character, your PC probably should want to help save people. That's what good characters do, willingly.

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It looks to me, from the boards I frequent, some people are still fighting the previous edition war.

Piper Hemlock wrote:

'Doctor Habe. A pleasure to meet you. I'm Piper Hemlock, the Sheriff's adopted son and Vincent's actual son.' He turns to Vincent before continuing. 'Hopefully, you can get him some measure of peace. I don't know if this will help, but when we picked him up for the transfer, he mentioned something called the 'Great Fall'. I find it strange because he's never mentioned it until now. I do have some theories about what he means. The Earthfall that destroyed the Azlanti and the Thassilonian. Some other apocalypse connected to a cult. Maybe the Old Ones or Groteus.'

Habe perks up at Piper's writing. "Ah, so you are the 'infamous' boy at the heart of Vincent's madness. I have heard a great deal about you, none of it flattering, I'm afraid - at least not as Vincent's tells me. But I have hopes that we may yet find a root to his madness and offer both of you some relief."

At the mention of the 'Great Fall', Habe nods, "His references have been growing darker and more grandiose of late. He no longer dreams of hurting just you, but also of hurting and killing many more. I believe whatever the cause of his condition, it is growing to a point that it will be revealed, and once revealed, I hope to treat it aggressively and thoroughly. I should not expect it to actually be related to the ancient Earthfall. I believe it is imagery he has latched on to as a reflection of an interior darkness."

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Rynjin wrote:
Wizards aren't good because they can do everything all day every day, they're good because they can potentially (with a realistic potential) do just about anything in a single class. There is a spell for (almost literally) EVERYTHING, and many spells actually do things better than skills (EX: Spider Climb, Fly vs Climb).

I might point out that this potential underlines the fact that it's a matter of choice in how the player wants to play the wizard. He could fill a niche that no other player has chosen to play - he's got that potential. Or, if a niche is filled, choose to devote his resources to another one.

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KingmanHighborn wrote:

I voted Star Wars, but really you could drop the Force and lightsaber stuff as it BORED me. I liked Star Wars cause there was so many cool places to go, races in universe, and the ships.

For me, the Force and the Jedi are what make Star Wars really distinctive as a space opera setting. And I don't mean the superhumanic BS that appeared in Attack of the Clones/Revenge of the Sith. I'm talking about the mystical philosophy and modestly defined powers of the original trilogy.

"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."

That's one of my favorite passages of the whole series of movies, particularly the line in bold. Star Wars without that loses half its character.

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KingmanHighborn wrote:

But see I love Trek too as long as it's not Shatner. (TOS is fine just I don't like Shatner's take on Kirk.) I grew up with TNG and loved it, as I loved the politics and 'feel' of it.

But then there was DS9 and I hated it, it was soooooooo BOOOOORRRRRINGGG! Nothing happened until the Dominion stuff started up otherwise it was Space CSI.

Voyager was the best of the best, crème de le crème series. As they had no Federation support. (Many times Enterprise had to go in for repairs or even complete rebuilds with a competent captain like Picard at the helm.)

It's like I've found my polar opposite here on the boards. I'll dub you my Bizarro Bill Dunn and you can dub me your Bizarro KingmanHighborn.

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Jaçinto wrote:

You are joking about the JJ movies being the best Trek films right? Into Darkness was ranked the worst Trek Movie of all time. Heck, ignoring nostalgia, I actually got extremely mad at the movie within the first few scenes. That movie, if you paid attention to all the plot points and followed its story structure and pacing, made no sense whatsoever.

Ranked as the worst Trek movie (which means worse than Star Trek 5!) by whom?!? Frankly, I find it hard to believe that would have been the outcome of a broad poll of Star Trek fans.

The constables initially startle at Vincent's sudden activity but when it comes to naught, there's a bit of nervous laughter. "Steady," Sheriff Hemlock calls out.

A quintet of men await the cart and its charge at the entrance to the sanitarium. Four burly orderlies flank a thinner, bespectacled man wearing a white tunic. "Welcome, Sheriff. How is our patient today."

Belor answers "He is a bit frisky, Doctor. Be wary."

"We deal with patients in the throws of lunacy and other afflictions of the mind on a regular basis. I am confident we can handle this one as well."

And with that, they begin unloading Vincent.

Alara, it turns out, is reasonably well-versed in the lore of the Earthfall as it relates to Varisia and the elven peoples. While her lineage is mainly from another continent and thus not directly affected, word has traveled among the elves that a great portion of the local elven folk managed to avoid the destruction caused by the Earthfall by retreating from the whole realm of Golarion. That had the negative effect of leaving many of their historical lands open for resettlement over the following millennia after the cataclysm, something that has made for difficult community relations as the elves have since begun trying to reclaim their lost lands.

Alara has also heard rumors via the elven folk that a much more recent conspiracy may have attempted to recreate the Earthfall over Varisia, but that threat has evidently been broken up (for details, consider the Second Darkness AP - something we are treating as history for this AP).

How exactly any of this might relate to Vincent's ravings is unclear...

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Squiggit wrote:

Which has literally nothing to do with the point at all, so I'm not even sure why you're saying it. You don't need a to have "constant one-upmanship" for a wizard to be better than a rogue. Nevermind that, again, saying that the wizard can just play down at the rogue's level doesn't change the fact that that's a conscious choice on the player's part and therefore only highlights the issue.

It's not a question of "playing down at the rogue's level". It's more a question of choosing to focus on something else rather than the rogue's jobs within the party.

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Set wrote:

Still, what I said upthread, especially for the core movie / TV show properties holds true for me. Farmboys can be heroes (in both cases), but only if they are the son of a queen and midichlorian Jesus in Star Wars universe. Trek always felt like the heroes were more working class and egalitarian, with 100% less 'space princesses.' (Although Picard flew against that, seeming pretty aristocratic...)

I agree that the Trek characters do seem a bit more... mundane than Star Wars characters. But then the shows and movies tend to focus less on their "lives" than on what they do in their occupations (allowing for brief, episodic vignettes exploring aspects of a character's hobbies or interests like Riker's jazz trombone/cooking, Data's music and art, Bev Crusher's dancing, and Troi's mother issues). By comparison, the whole farm boy to hero journey is all about the transformation of an entire life. Trek is the heroism of normal people in crisis situations. Star Wars is about growing into the hero.

And as far as Picard's manners, Patrick Stewart's acting training seems to both work for and against him. His behavior and speech are very captainish and inspiring in that context. But they really don't seem to match Picard's history that seems to lurch between academic pursuits and roughhousing. Of course, they don't match Stewart's history of Yorkshire poverty and domestic violence either which just goes to show just how awesome his achievements as an actor and all-around humanitarian really are.

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DrDeth wrote:

Nice idea, but too many players, according to posts I have read here on these boards, would never hear of it. Team work is worthless they say, it's all about solo power. The fact that you have a Sorc in the party who is willing and able to cast T-port is meaningless everyone NEEDS to be able to teleport on his very ow nor the class is worthless.

This usually strikes me as a jealousy or competitiveness issue. I've seen it a lot, in recent years, characterized by "protagonism" and "agency" issues. The spellcasters' reality bending powers set the agenda for the game and martial characters don't get nice thing. These are all focused on what one player can do with his PC that another player cannot do with his.

But I don't see it that way. Who sets the agenda for the game? Is it a spellcaster acting as dictator or do the players have reasonably equal input? If the former, why are they playing with the jerk? And if it's the latter, then the spellcaster doesn't really have more agency, rather, his powers are at the service of the group and it doesn't really matter if it's Joe's PC who is pushing the button - he's pushing it for all of us.

Now, maybe I'm spoiled by being part of groups that have played together with relatively few changes in spans measured by decades rather than months or even years. Most of the competitiveness that comes up between players is done for role playing purposes.

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Irontruth wrote:

If the vendor's only purpose is to be a source of war movies and historical documents, why would they have Nazi fetish porn?

Or women's underwear with sexual innuendo?
Or work shirts with Nazi symbology on them?
Or a t-shirt a U-boat and nazi eagle on the front, with a list of 10 U-boat commanders with the most kills on the back?
Or a t-shirt with a U-boat on the front and a list of ships by tonnage that were sunk on the back?

Why? For the same reason vendors at Gen Con also sell anime porn, Starfleet fezzes, fetishy corsets, and vaguely rapey role-playing games like Vampire: the Masquerade - to make a buck catering to the interests of the con-goers even if they drift a bit from the mainstream.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Now, reading over their website a little, I'm inclined to believe there actually is some Nazi sympathizing going on there (Who the hell refers to Gilliam's Baron Munchausen as a remake of a Goebells film?)...but I couldn't prove it,

Goebbels may have commissioned the production of the 1943 version of Munchhausen, but a Hungarian directory named Baky actually made it and dodged politics in doing so (apparently to great success as people were looking for a diversion from the bad news on the Soviet front).

But as far as being a remake, it seems to have clearly influenced Gilliam's version according to this blog on the Munchausen films: PSYCHEDELICATESSEN. So calling it a remake? Bit of a strong term, more like influenced some of the forms and scenes. But evidence of whoever posted that on the Belle and Blade site is Nazi sympathizing? That's a pretty tenuous argument too.

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Irontruth wrote:

This is the GenCon vendor map from 2014.

Note the second column, 5th one down: Belle and Blade.

So, after complaints were made LAST YEAR about these guys. They were allowed to come back.

I don't want to link directly too them. I don't think Paizo deserves links to these guys on their website. But here are some things for sale:

- Triumph of the Will
- baseball caps with swastikas on them
- a work shirt with a Death's Head emblem with the words "Gott mit uns" common Nazi imagery from the period
- Nazi fetish porn

Neither the work shirt or baseball cap are authentic to the WW2 period, but rather reflect more modern designs of clothing. They are not intended to be historical recreations.

Their website is pretty easy to find if you search Belle and Blade.

So, now I've shown that his article DOES contain evidence. I suppose you could try to argue that Nazi fetish porn isn't racist and deserves to be at GenCon.

And, having seen the booth, I'd say that most of what it is about is movies, movies, and more movies that a lot of people are interested in. Overall, the booth was a lot less offensive than a lot of the manga/anime art ones that were very teen porny.

It's possible that anybody who investigated thought that the complaints were largely minimal compared to the overall focus of the booth. I've also seen a response from Gen Con staff that they told Bell and Blade to not display the underwear. And other posts suggest that they were no longer on prominent display - though were still for sale. And that parallels what went on with the anime porn. One booth in 2013 had the art posted high up at the top of their booth so it could be seen for some distance. Clearly someone complained since after that opening morning the racier stuff had been lowered to be within the booth itself.

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Nicos wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:

There's no point if grousing about it. Not all games are going to enable all concepts out of the box and that's OK.
A dexterous character who wields a rapier is really iconic character concept. It is a failure that hte game do not support that concept (well, perhaps it does now with the ACG, not sure).

Funny, I can make a dexterous character who wields a rapier just fine in PF. He doesn't do as much damage as the greataxe wielding barbarian, but I'm fine with that. Damage isn't everything.

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Suichimo wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:
Seems to me a LOT of people complain about the system as it is. Complaints about not enough dex-to-damage options just up your strength if you really want to melee THAT badly

And if that is against your concept?

Then you've got a few choices to make:

1) house rule it with willing GM and players
2) accept your concept can only be approximated with the rules you've got and do the best you can
3) play a game in which that concept can be achieved like Mutants and Masterminds or some other system
4) change your concept

There's no point if grousing about it. Not all games are going to enable all concepts out of the box and that's OK.

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