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Mynafee Gorse

Bill Dunn's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 4,168 posts (4,418 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 12 aliases.


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Nicos wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:


There's no point if grousing about it. Not all games are going to enable all concepts out of the box and that's OK.
A dexterous character who wields a rapier is really iconic character concept. It is a failure that hte game do not support that concept (well, perhaps it does now with the ACG, not sure).

Funny, I can make a dexterous character who wields a rapier just fine in PF. He doesn't do as much damage as the greataxe wielding barbarian, but I'm fine with that. Damage isn't everything.


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Suichimo wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:
Seems to me a LOT of people complain about the system as it is. Complaints about not enough dex-to-damage options just up your strength if you really want to melee THAT badly

And if that is against your concept?

Then you've got a few choices to make:

1) house rule it with willing GM and players
2) accept your concept can only be approximated with the rules you've got and do the best you can
3) play a game in which that concept can be achieved like Mutants and Masterminds or some other system
4) change your concept

There's no point if grousing about it. Not all games are going to enable all concepts out of the box and that's OK.


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Abraham spalding wrote:

You cannot give consent while drunk.

Consent must be obtained or the act is forced.

Drunk has a legal definition. Consent has a legal definition, and you cannot consent while drunk. If you do not have consent then the act is not willing.

Unfortunately, even the link you provide is ambiguous on the issue. First it says you can't legally consent when intoxicated then it qualifies it with the term "too drunk". That's a problem and it will continue to be a problem for quite a while.

There are a lot of people who willingly have drunk sex and the law should not define that as rape. Yet there is a point of being so drunk that any consent given should be suspect. But that line can be very difficult to detect, even in cases when people know each other pretty well.

In any event, we should probably drop this particular line of discussion. It won't be resolved here.


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mechaPoet wrote:
4) All of that said, the reason I brought this up in the first place is because of the part where Correia mocks George for not feeling represented in gaming. George outlines what internalized racism looks like: even in a fantasy world, George can imagine fighting orcs more easily than he can imagine a non-white character for himself. This isn't an issue of George's lack of imagination; it's the result of a culture that tells him what's normal/normative for a medieval fantasy setting is that everyone is white. The narratives present in both our history and much of our pop culture about medieval/renaissance Europe has erased the history of PoC. It is affected by the other racist narratives in our culture, and affects them in turn in a vicious cycle that has made people like George feel like he doesn't have a voice or a place in the usual cultural narrative. Even when he tries to branch out and make characters of color, it's unhelpful and discouraging when people ask him if he's trying to make a statement or send a message by doing that. And for Correia to mock George and dismiss his feelings on this is a dick move. Making a half-orc with green skin isn't the same as making a character with brown or black skin, because no one is going to call you out on "message fiction" for playing a half-orc. This is a racist action--please note that I'm not saying anything about Correia's character or his ~*~innermost soul as a human being~*~, just pointing to this particular action as racist and rude. Maybe Correia wasn't bothered by not seeing himself represented in fantasy games (or, for many PoC, almost all media), or maybe he did feel represented (which is a tricky feeling to identify, because it's the feeling of being "normal" when you engage with any form of media with characters). So, you know, that's cool for him, but he's being a huge a!%$%*! about it to George and dismissing what is a serious and widespread problem. Admittedly, it is one that Paizo art tries to address, which is awesome, and which the latest edition of D&D is trying to do as well (I got a chance to flip through it, and the example pictures for the human, fighter, and wizard are all black). But for Correia to dismiss his concerns is exactly the opposite of what he praises Paizo for trying to do! So is Correia white? It seems like he doesn't identify as such, and if he experiences racism directed toward him for being non-white Portuguese, then that's s*%!ty. However, he also says some s~+@ty racist stuff in his response article, and that's just not acceptable.

Even if someone were to agree with you on this or take George at his word, there's still a gap between experiencing racism away from gaming to the point it affects your early forays into gaming and even having a racist incident at a local gaming table and projecting that onto the whole community and Gen Con. And I'd say it's an even bigger gap now than it would have been in the early days of gaming since there are major companies including diverse characters in their art, some for over a decade. The environment for attracting diversity in gaming - whether it's ethnic/racial diversity or gender/sexual preference diversity - is pretty much the best it has ever been thanks to companies like WotC and Paizo.

But at some point, people have to realize it's not gaming that doesn't afford people options. Gaming has no inherent horizon (though local groups may have their own limits and limitations). If George thinks gaming didn't or doesn't afford him those options, it's because he didn't (and maybe still doesn't) reach for them. Maybe he feels like an outsider - as a minority, that's understandable. But being an outsider doesn't make the experience inherently racist nor does he become an insider by choosing to distance himself from the community or events.


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thejeff wrote:

So, more to the point of the argument would you say that the experience of the experience of Spanish immigrants to the US is essentially the same as Mexican immigrants? They face the same kinds of discrimination? Both in the first and successive generation?

Because that's the distinction that Hispanic(White) and Hispanic(not-white) draws.

Or would the experience of that Spanish immigrant and his descendants be closer to a Polish immigrant and his? Both likely to face discrimination, but both considered white and not dealing with the same level that people of color face, especially after the first generation.

I expect there's going to be a lot of regional variation. Spanish immigrant coming to Arizona - or really anywhere in territory that used to be Mexico - probably have an experience much like a Mexican immigrant. Then, in successive generations, there's probably a good chance having a name that sounds Mexican will lead a lot of people to make assumptions that they're Mexican-American rather than Spanish-American.

Fun little aside. Remember when some people got all up in arms about Benedict Cumberbatch being cast as Khan in Star Trek: Into Darkness? There were complaints about whitewashing Khan. Here's even a blog post from someone at Tor Books about giving a person of color's part to a white guy: The Perfect Retcon to Star Trek: Into Darkness.

But here's the rub. If a Spanish immigrant to the US wouldn't be a person of color, neither was Ricardo Montalban both of whose parents immigrated to Mexico from Spain. They're assuming Montalban was a person of color because he was Mexican, had an awesome accent, and had a good tan. Or... they understood that being a PoC isn't necessarily about obvious skin tones or technical racial origin but being part of an ethnicity/race that's not necessarily treated as being white.


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Chengar Qordath wrote:


That's actually one of the main reasons I'm not a huge fan of how the Big Six items work in Pathfinder. The Big Six are very much expected and ordinary. It's hard to get excited about getting another +1, but sooner or later you need those bonuses just to survive.

Magic items that let you do something new and interesting are far more exciting than ones that just add flat numerical bonuses. Problem is, Pathfinder is very much a numbers game; no matter how good your tactics are and what creative solutions you come up with, eventually dice are going to be rolled.

You generally need some of those items to thrive, sure. But you don't need all of them, nor do all of the ones you have need to be maxed out. Yet all 6 of these are part of the Big 6 because, necessary or not, they are very valuable compared to most other magic items. Their benefits are consistent, easy to calculate, hard to forget about, and relatively cheap. For those reasons, they kick the butt of many if not most conditional-use items, like rings of shooting stars, which are generally sold off at first opportunity to get one of the Big 6.


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Maccabee wrote:
I loved Pathfinder as is. Then I started reading these forums. I've liked it less and less ever since. Less to do with the system, more to do with some of the types of people attracted to this type of system.

I can understand this leading to having contempt for fellow gamers (I have plenty of that myself thanks to my online participation here and other message boards), but I don't think I have ever let it affect my ability to like a game...


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Caineach wrote:
Oh banning it because it is an accurate military uniform is a legitimate reason, as long as that gets applied evenly. It's not a rule I think should be there because of inclusion or anything like it. There is the legal requirement that US military uniforms not be accurate in movies. Not wanting to be afoul of that is a good reason to have that rule.

Back in the 1980s, when I first noticed an earlier version of that rule, it was also possible to encounter gaming veterans of 20th century wars. So, there was still good reason to avoid letting people dressing as their comrades or their adversaries.

Notice, however, that civil war uniforms are fair game now as are plenty of European imperial troops - despite the likely racist connotations some of them could have.


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Caineach wrote:

Entirely true, except that part where you called me a racist. If you want to do that, at least point out something I've said that is racist.

I still don't think dressing as a nazi at gencon is intately inappropriate.

It is because all 20th-21st century military uniforms are prohibited - unless they're a current soldier's uniform.

That said, if you're playing WWII wargames on the German side, I don't think anybody would object to wearing an officer's cap or an Iron Cross to set the mood. Most of the gamers at that table would probably be more interested in the story of those items than take offense.


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thejeff wrote:

My stance is and remains that he claims incorrectly to be a Person of Color to mock and dismiss racial discrimination. If he experienced discrimination as a 2nd generation immigrant, which is quite possible, and he actually used those experiences in his argument, that would be one thing. But he doesn't. He doesn't talk about any such experiences. He just claims the PoC flag and he does so without justification.

Again - discovered he was (legally) Latino circa 2009. Is of European (Portuguese) descent. Latinos, in this usage, can be either White or several varieties of not-white. European qualifies as white.

I disagree. Saturday Night Live may have used the idea in a joke back when Dukakis and Bush were running for President but it's true - some Europeans are "whiter" than others. Some benefit from white privilege more than others. Not all Europeans qualify as being white in the same way - a lot of southern Europeans can tell you that. I can tell you it's well understood by Portuguese friends of mine - particularly in New England where they make up a substantial immigrant community the long-standing WASPs there don't much like (that Manhattan clam chowder? It's not from Manhattan - it's New England Portuguese - talk about "othering", they had to say it was from somewhere else to be sufficiently insulting and exclusionary).

George, in his attempt to show Gen Con's insensitivity to the issue, made a similar mistake by using the term PoC superficially as if race relations were binary. They're not.


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GreyWolfLord wrote:

I actually did point out quite a number of the posts to Paizo...they did not take action.

Clearly, you're not getting what Scott Betts was saying. He was, I think, prodding you to identify what posts or statements you thought were racist and defend them in this thread. And until you do, I don't think many of us are really going to understand what you think were racist statements.


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We should really leave the feds and the census out of this. Neither has any definitive bearing on how person/people of color is actually used.


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LazarX wrote:


He's been there, I've been there several times as both player and GM. You by your own admission haven't been there ever. Are you open to the possibility that the conclusion you've reached is at least partly due to the fact that it's what you WANT to believe?

I've been going since 1983 and I'd have a hard time saying Gen Con was racist. The fact that the hobby is mostly white may be the legacy of a society divided by racism but that hardly makes Gen Con racist or the racial differences a problem that Gen Con must address. Large concentrations of mostly white people are not inherently racist experiences.


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Kittyburger wrote:


Yep.

Correia has a pattern of bigotry and of denying the impact of bigotry when reported by other people.

I'm amused by the fact that calling out a pattern of actual behavior by the man in question is being called "character assassination." "Character assassination" would be if the claimed pattern of behavior were false - it isn't.

Whether he's a bigot or not, using that as an argument that his post is wrong or valueless is still argumentum ad hominem rather than actually interacting with the post. Granted, Correia does some of that as well with his social justice warrior stuff, but not all of his post descends to that level. Something I regrettably can't say about every post in this thread...


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thejeff wrote:
Ignoring that the actual complaint was that a store selling Nazi themed paraphernalia wasn't being addressed per official policy.

That's assuming that it is clearly against policy. There are terms about being offensive and bad taste as well as some specifics about excessive gore (also frequently ignored), but offense and bad taste are quite often in the eye of the beholder.

There are a lot of options for people to find offense at Gen Con depending on what gets under their skin. But the impact of any one of them is actually pretty minimal in a sea of hundreds of exhibitors, hundreds of cosplayers, and 50,000 attendees.


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Kittyburger wrote:


Indeed. Correia's best buds with Theodore "Vox Day" Beale, who is a virulent racist, sexist, and homophobe (I'm fairly sure trans people Don't Exist in Beale's world). Your friends inform who you are, and Beale's a LOT of information. Even without Beale, there's plenty of sexist, homophobic and transphobic commentary from Correia out there.

Correia's been dismissive a lot of women's science fiction, of LGBT science fiction, of science fiction of people of color, of non-American science fiction (lumping all of them together as "message fiction" - ignoring the fact that all fiction is supposed to send a message), so the pattern is pretty well-established showing him to be a pretty big flaming bigot regardless of any use or nonuse of slurs.

None of this actually gets at the specific Tor Books blog post vs response post by Corriea, though. You don't like some of his other positions, statements, and associations... but what about the topic at hand?


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Diffan wrote:
For me, it basically comes down to this: What does D&D-Next do that other systems don't? I've struggled with that question since 2012 when they announced they were in the process of creating a new edition. And through ALL the playtests I've run and the games we've played, I still cannot answer it well enough.

So far, the game offers sufficient answers. It's a version of D&D that includes some elements of recent editions while having the speed and openness of 1e/2e.

As much as I love Pathfinder, having a less dense option is quite attractive. There may be other games in that niche like C&C, but I only just got the PH for that via the reprint Kickstarter so it doesn't have much of a headstart against 5e with me. And 5e has, so far, been easier to get into. Plus, 5e is virtually guaranteed to have a much bigger network of players.


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mechaPoet wrote:


2. Glad to know that you don't find me credible for using a term that I've explained several times and provided helpful explanatory links to. Unless you're just talking about some other "people whose tires aren't flat" and not yourself????

I have to say that the article by Gina Crosley-Corcoran is particularly helpful since it also focuses on the intersectionality that people experience with overlapping fields of privilege/lack of privilege. I had read it before and thought it was quite well done.

But I'd say George and his blog post still needs to go from the fact that white privilege has had an effect on the racial makeup of Gen Con attendees compared to that of the Indiana Convention Center employees and "Houston, we have a problem." And he isn't doing so.


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GreyWolfLord wrote:

Mr. Correia actually appears to be white. He seems to be ignorant of what WHITE actually is. Latinos and Hispanics are minorities, but technically, they have been considered white for the past century in the US.

Now, obviously, that may not be true in some people's eyes...but even in South America there tend to be racism...and yes...there are Hispanics (such as Portuguese and Spaniards direct descendants...and even German descendants) that are directly as white as you can get...whereas there are others which are more akin to the relations you may see from a Native American.

There's a reason being Latino or Hispanic, though a minority, does not instantly say you are a PoC...as the term goes...so lets stop confusing the term.

The US census bureau has divided them into different categories, so it's possible to be Hispanic and Black, or Hispanic and White...so being Hispanic does not necessarily mean you are a PoC.

With Latino, it's even LESS defining as a person of Color. Latinos come from any nation that speaks a Romance (language derived from Latin) Language...hence France and Italy and Spain.

In the US, it is more specific, and specified than Hispanic, in that it refers to those from Latin America. In that sense, one would assume Mr. Correia is from Latin America...but being from Latin America is no more defining as a Person of Color than being from the US defines you as such.

I'm guessing you haven't heard of a lot of people being stopped by traffic cops for DWH (Driving while Hispanic). A friend of mine basically gets stopped for it - he's Portuguese-American.

While he may not technically be a "person of color", he's not exactly white and brimming with white privilege either.

Ultimately, I think this is actually serving Mr. Corriea's point - that use of the term POC can end up being divisive and tinged with racism. It has been a while since I attended grad school but the uses it was put to there in the 1990s had me thinking it was another version of Jim Crow thinking - just from a different perspective. It was disturbing to come to that realization that the people bandying the term about in their identity-politics stands were using the same kinds of criteria to label someone a person of color as the Jim Crow supporters were using to keep people away from the white privilege of sitting at the front of the bus or eating at the lunch counter.


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ShinHakkaider wrote:


Yeah I've never understood the whole "getting pissed at the developers" thing. I dont know, maybe I come from a different era but when we were playing D&D back in the day, when we came across a rule or something that we didnt like or want to use? We just changed it or didnt use it.
We didnt get hot at designers or call them out in Dragon Magazine. We were more concerned about playing our game. And that's it.

I don't understand getting mad either. I do understand some frustration, though, when a FAQ answer is unclear or needs clarification that only seems to come after a messageboard brouhaha breaks out. I'd prefer it if more FAQ entries included a developer-perspective rationale for the interpretation. The two-handed weapon + two-weapon fighting ban needed clarification and I think none of the ensuing messageboard discussion has filtered back up to the rule clarification. That is frustrating.

I think one reason we tend to see more testiness is because of the immediacy of the internet. Multiple exchanges can occur and sentiments build up over the course of a few hours. With Dragon, exchanges took weeks and that's a lot calmer.


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mechaPoet wrote:


-Do some of your own research into the intersection of race and gaming. Some of you seem very hesitant to believe anecdotal evidence of racism. There are a lot of people with anecdotal experience of racism; how many does it take for it to become "statistics"? This is mean to be less of a zen koan along the lines of "How many grains of rice does it take to be a pile?" and more of an encouragement to seek out this accounts on your own. When you find them, please take them seriously. And if you find yourself objecting to things that are said on the grounds that they are "not really racist," or getting offended that something you do is considered racist, please take a minute to consider those social privileges you possess. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Do more research.

The fact that people have had experiences in gaming that are affected by racism doesn't necessarily make the assertion that there is a racial problem at Gen Con true. Taking George at face value in his blog post, he clearly has had a problem with racism in his gaming life. If he can't play a black character, or a character of any ethnicity or race under the game's sun, he's clearly experiencing a problem. And, just as clearly, for those of us familiar with the Rashomon Effect, those experiences will affect his perceptions of the reality around him - including his Gen Con experience.

But the perceptions of one person don't necessarily mean there's a problem that can or needs to be addressed. To shift to another psychological lexicon, he may be projecting his own problematic view on a situation that doesn't warrant it.


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mechaPoet wrote:
People keep picking at this, and I think it's important to note that this observation is part of a brief preamble. The problem isn't in George's "argument," the problem is treating every bit of George's article with over-intense scrutiny. Here's what I read in that part: George goes to GenCon as a non-white person and sees two populations, the convention-goers and the convention staff. The racial make up of these two groups (and probably both are fairly large considering the popularity of the Con) is disproportionate, with a greater percentage of the people who have and act on their access to the Con being white and a greater percentage of the staff being non-white. All he says is that it makes him feel uncomfortable, and reminds him of "ye olde racist times." Feel free to (re?)visit the articles I posted about privilege, and consider how our racist past and present might contribute to this racial disparity.

But I think this is where Corriea's criticism of George's blog post is at its best. He explains quite well that the disparity isn't Gen Con's issue - and it really isn't. George was, as far as I can tell, reacting emotionally without trying to understand why there's this particular disparity and, frankly, that's kind of shallow.

mechaPoet wrote:
Literally nowhere does he say GenCon is racist. He says there is a "Race Problem," and describes some ways in which he feels excluded.

I think you're being far too generous. What kind of response can George expect from Gen Con organizers or attendees if he says "There's a race problem here"? How can it not imply that he feels racism is at work at Gen Con and that Gen Con bears some responsibility for it?

mechaPoet wrote:
But here's the real meat of the issue: it doesn't matter whether his article has "rational arguments" or is "too emotional." He identifies some things he didn't like and provides some suggestions of how to make GenCon more inclusive. He doesn't owe anyone a "logical" argument for inclusion. Part of white privilege is not seeing the discomfort of non-white groups who feel underrepresented in a given community. Having white privilege doesn't mean you're being evil and ignoring it, it means you literally don't see it. When George writes about feeling out of place at GenCon, the proper response shouldn't be, "Prove it!" There are a lot of people asking for more inclusion in the gaming community, and it's there if you look for it and listen to those voices. The burden of proof is not on George here.

Not so. As the person making the statement that there's a race problem as opposed to a racial disparity (not all disparities are truly problematic), he's got to show that there is a problem. And I'm not sure that one uncomfortable person, as far as we know, rises to the level of a problem. His experience is an anecdote and we don't have enough information on other people's experiences to know if he's having a common reaction to Gen Con or an outlying idiosyncratic reaction. If it's the former, then we may have a problem (and I think Corriea is right that a lot of game companies have come a long way on this topic - making games more attractive for American racial minorities and women) that can be addressed, but if it's the latter, the onus for finding a solution is on the blog poster alone.

I also disagree that white privilege means white people can't see the issues. It just means we aren't directly subject to them. A white (Irish-American) friend of mine can certainly see that her Portuguese-American husband gets stopped a lot more by traffic cops than she does and gets hassled by the cops more than she does. But having more white privilege than he has, she's not subject to the same treatment. She can see it just fine. It would be a misconception to say that people can't see their privilege (whatever flavor of privilege they have in a situation).


Belor shakes his head. "Doctor Habe would call this one of his 'episodes', and they are happening more often. He will rave about some Fall for a while and then quiet down into the bastard we are all accustomed to, mean and petty but not mad. Then, suddenly, he goes into an episode. Father Zantus has been to see him in case there is some magical affliction but he has found none. Habe hopes to offer him some respite through treatment, but I have my doubts."

Vincent's ranting sparks a couple of points of recognition in Piper's memory, but none are definitive.

Some 10,000 years ago, the Starstone fell to earth in a cataclysm known as the Earthfall. It destroyed Azlanti civilization as it created the Inner Sea. Locally, it also destroyed Thassilonian civilization and put an end to the rule of the Runelords. But that's ancient past unless Vincent expects it to happen again.

Great Fall could also be any other apocalypse. There are a variety of apocalyptic cults including ones devoted to the shadowy Old Ones about which little is known other than madness follows in their wake. And then there's Groetus - said to be a moon (or on a moon) that shines over Pharasma's Boneyard - his cult is always looking forward to an "end times" during which Groetus will reign. Reign over what remains an open question since it is supposed to be the end of time.


I'll leave it up to Piper to determine whether he let other PCs know about his father being moved to the sanitarium. But, the current events are going on in a public space outside the garrison, so it would be possible for you to be there even if not specifically invited by Piper. I'm content to leave it up to you whether you want to be there or not.


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sunshadow21 wrote:

And that bothers me a bit. I don't mind a strong brand that earns it, but a brand that is strong because of what nostalgia offers and very little else isn't that strong of a brand in the long run, and doesn't help much of anyone. I'm hoping that the nostalgia factor is eventually replaced with something more substantial and consistent to provide the underlying strength; I really don't want to see them fall into a pattern of big spike as a new book is released followed complete silence and virtually no new actual product until the time comes for the next big grand release announcement generating another big spike. That cycle is fine or twice, but it will get old real quickly if it becomes the norm. Being flashy wears thin when there's not a lot of substance to back it up.

<snip>

While revisiting the old rules isn't bad, a lot of folks are forgetting they changed for a reason, and reimplementing them just because they aren't the rules people have been griping about recently isn't a surefire long term strategy.

I think you're using the wrong term. It's not nostalgia (although I'm sure it plays a small part). It's really identity and preference. Pinning these sentiments on nostalgia, I think, just serves to diminish them and they're much more powerful than that. Identity killed New Coke. Identity probably has a big hand in undermining 4e - the edition a lot of people felt wasn't D&D-enough. Identity is what spawned the Dragonsfoot community when 3e was on the rise. It's identification with a product, not a nostalgic feeling for it.

And as far as rules changing for a reason, that kind of statement seems to imply that every change and every reason for those changes was correct. That may not be the case. I think some editions made some changes just to kill sacred cows, to put a new spin on the game of D&D, but I don't think those are very good reasons in and of themselves.


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I like pith helmets.


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sunshadow21 wrote:


At this point, if I am going to be spending money, I expect to see something new and different enough to be worth the dollars spent; at least so far, 5E isn't. It's a good system, I hope it does well, but I was hoping for something that would actually compete with PF, keeping Paizo on their toes. Unless WotC comes out with a robust third party license system, I don't see that happening; WotC clearly doesn't have any plans to do much with the system directly themselves. Paizo, and other competitors as well, put out enough content of high enough quality overall that WotC is not going to be able to just put out adventures and the seemingly very occasional something else and hope to maintain a long term presence in the market; movies, video games, or whatever else they have been talking about for decades now and have yet to seriously produce would be nice to see, but a great many people won't care about them and many that do won't make the connection to the game that WotC clearly hopes they will make.

I think 5e will compete pretty strongly with PF simply for the fact that it is D&D. That brand means a lot. Just look at the edition wars - what's that all about? At it's most fundamental level, It's about being D&D players. Why else would people go to such effort to criticize 4e or backlash against those criticisms? Why else would people cling to their favorite sacred cows/sacred cow hamburger? It's because they want to be D&D players (or still be D&D players) and have the currently supported edition be an edition they can identify themselves as D&D players with.

That's going to be pretty stiff competition.


Go ahead and level-up to 2nd, Rawnie. That's where everyone else is. We aren't using XPs, I'm just having the PCs level up when it fits the ongoing action. It's easier on the accounting that way.


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There has been some really good participation from everybody. Thanks for taking such a strong interest. I know it's hard to find a spot in the APs people are running because everybody wants to give them a try and there aren't enough GMs to go around.

I'd like to announce that each of the current players has submitted a ballot and we have a collectively made selection:

Rawnie, welcome to the game.

We'll spend a little time this weekend getting final paperwork squared away and really get a move-on on Monday.

Valia, Yui, and Zelruza, thanks for putting forth so much effort. And thanks to everyone else who submitted a character or showed interest. If internet attrition hits again (or the current PCs want to add a 6th member), we'll put out another call for adventurers.


"Doctor Habe is pretty much ready to take the prisoner," Belor says. He then regards Piper with a thoughtful eye and rubs his jaw, a sure sign he's concerned, before he continues. "You are your own man now, Piper, and you can make your own decisions. But Vincent is ... free... with his outbursts. You do not need to give him the opportunity to see you again. He has done everything to lose that privilege and nothing to regain it."

I could have sworn I posted this late on Monday, but I must have hit preview to review it and then navigated away before hitting Submit.


There's not a ton to go on with the proposals to my inbox other than the mechanics. The gnome illusionist intrigues me because I see them so infrequently now but it's harder to feel how they'd fit with the group compared to the players participating in the role-play. We're going more on mechanics and guesses.

Thanks for setting up the role-playing, Piper. It's given us more information to base decisions on.

Let's wait for Ash to chime in and once we give his input some thought, we can put the recruitment to a vote. I think maybe the best way to do that would be for people to private message me putting as many applicants as you want to vote for in your preference order and I'll use a transferable vote counting method. Kind of like what they're doing with the Ennies awards these days.


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I thought the organization worked fine. My singular challenge would be one that the HQ would find hard to remedy - the ballroom was loud which made relatively soft-spoken GMs hard to hear.


Piper Hemlock wrote:

The four applicants seem interesting.

Yui - Unique race and interesting connection to the characters. I like her upbeat personality. Seems to be the role of a support witch (at least from what I saw).

Rawnie - Connection to someone who hasn't gotten much focus on before. Also, is a sorcerer (which works well with filling in Sharrd's position). She also has a bloodline I've never seen before. Could help us prepare for encounters when we know what's coming. Also, it's Harrowing. Every time I've seen Harrowing being used in the games I'm in, it's always interesting. Also, has butterfly familiar from Wayfinder.

Valia - Unique concept. Not really a full spell caster, but provides the role of ranger. Like his profile says, he does have a good deal of offensive spells and can help provide support.

Zelruza - Race I haven't come across before in my games. Role seems to be providing support. Also, has a profession skill (haven't seen that used often). Is also going for a romance with Sandru.

Hard to decide which one sticks out in my mind.

I've also gotten PMs including pitches for:

Viluki - Invoker (3rd party class)
Tearis - Elven wizard - specializing in evocations and crushing on Shalelu
Geliglee Geerwander - Gnome illusionist with a focus on shadow magic

I don't believe any of these 3 have participated in the RP in the recruitment thread.


The Marriott, eh? Maybe I should volunteer to GM PFS scenarios. We stayed out at a Quality Inn 10 miles away. The savings were quite good (I paid under $100/night for a family of 4) and the drive was short, the parking cheaper ($10/day instead of $20), but the scheduling was tougher since we had to come and go once/day as a group. And that meant I had to back out of the Friday night GenCon Special and my daughter had to leave the Ultimate Werewolf game group she was hanging out with earlier than she wanted and had to skip the rave.


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Captain America may be a bit cheesy by today's standards, but his archetype is every bit as iconic - from the comic historian point of view - as Batman and Superman. Super patriot characters were quite common in the golden age of comics, and understandably so considering their development right before WWII.

I have read some of Cap's own comic, but most of my experience with him is in the Avengers and Invaders comics. And both Cap movies have been hitting the right tones with both comic fans and the public. I thought they covered his origin in the first movie in a way that did justice to his history and in a very accessible way for non-comic readers. The second movie really blew me away, though. But unlike others, I don't see a power creep at all - what I see is just the writers getting better at finding ways for him to shine on his own. We'll see if the Cap2 experience taught them enough to set him off well opposite the power-hitters in the Avengers 2.


I'm back from Gen Con now and the internet access I had there was pretty bad. The hotel had free wifi but it was slow and a bit dodgy.

Anyway, what does everyone think of the applications from the recruitment thread?


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I think being a bit more specific on the help you need would help everyone help you.


Item repairs: There is time to get items repaired (like the masterwork chain mail and the rusty wakizashi) - and sold as deemed necessary.


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tomtesserae - we have one childhood crush on Ameiko.

In general, for campaign traits, we have 2 foster children, one crush, and one rescued in the ongoing players.

Delphine - I will not be handing out PFS credit. I expect to deviate too much from the AP to facilitate the online format to really be PFS-compliant.


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As the Advanced Class Guide is becoming available (I downloaded mine tonight), I will say it is also a legal source. I don't want to redesign any classes but classes, archetypes, and feats would be fine.


And, for reference, insults may raise a rivalry relationship, but raising a friendly relationship takes more than words and compliments. They like gifts.


I have updated the recruitment thread. I hope we'll have a recruit soon.


Both Alara and Piper are aware that the Uplands are rugged but not particularly inhospitable. Something like this:
New Zealand - Rohanscapes

Perhaps a bit cool with stiff winds, cold winter breezes, damp summers. The locals are Ulfen-stock nomads who settled the region to follow the wild horse herds rather than live lives of constant raiding. As such, they're reasonably peaceable, more interested in trade than raid.


The Date

Kaye sighs and nods with a broad smile. "I thought so as well, but we only get so many different options out here along the Lost Coast. With your travels, Piper, and your perspective as an outsider, Alara, I was hoping to get more cosmopolitan opinions. Gaven will be pleased to hear your reactions."

She indicates to the server to leave the bottle.
"Enjoy as much as you like, I'll take whatever's left in the bottle home to Belor. He has always had a soft spot for the civilizing influence of mead despite his rough badlands exterior," she laughs.

"Now, if there's anything else you need, just let me know. Otherwise, I will leave the two of you to enjoy your time together," she adds with a wink.


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Opening up some more recruitment...

First arcane-based caster of the campaign (sorcerer) had to bow out, so did his first replacement (magus). So, we're looking for a new arcane caster for a Jade Regent campaign. They have explored the local caves, recovered some information about local bartender's family past, and are determined to investigate.

Needless to say, it's fairly early in the campaign and due to real life intrusions, we haven't been moving too fast. I hope to pick up the pace a little, though Gen Con is about to intrude in its own right.

A reminder (from way back in post 1) what this campaign is looking for:

The Rules:
• Races: All standard races from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook will be allowed. Any other 0HD race will be considered on a case by case basis.
• Classes: All classes (Base and Prestige) and Archetypes from Paizo Publishing will be allowed. 3.5 or 3PP classes/archetypes will have to be approved by me prior to acceptance.
• Alignment: Characters can be of any alignment, but must be able to play well with others.
• Abilities: Characters will be based on the High Fantasy (20 point) buy, found in the PFRPG Core Rulebook on page 16. No ability can be raised higher than 18 (prior to racial modifiers). Only one ability may be lowered below 10 and that ability cannot be lowered below 8 (prior to racial modifiers).
• Feats: Any feat published by Paizo Publishing will be acceptable. Any 3.5 or 3PP material you wish to use will have to be approved by me prior to acceptance.
• Traits: Character's will start with two traits, one of which MUST be from the Jade Regent Player's Guide.
• Hit Points: Characters will start out with Maximum hit points for their class at 1st level. Thereafter players may either roll for HP's or take the average (whichever is greater).
• Starting Gold: Characters will start with Maximum starting gold for their base class as found in the PFRPG Core Rulebook on page 140, the APG on page 26, UC on page 8, or in the UM on page 8.

PM me with your pitch for an arcane-based caster. The current players don't seem too picky the specific class. The party's current makeup:
Samurai
Ninja
Bard
Oracle

And the arcane caster will make 5. I'd like submissions over the next week so I can review them during my copious free time at Gen Con - when I'm in a serious gaming mood.


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LazarX wrote:


I was one of those old farts as well who thought that way, until someone committed suicide by throwing himself off one of the high dorms at my alma mater Rutgers following a Facebook bullying arranged by his scumbag of a roommate. If anything cyber-bullying may be more insidiously dangerous than any kind of bullying I went through.

Maybe. At the very least, it has the potential to take a victim's humiliation from local to global in reach. Plus, people forget many of the things they witness directly, putting it on the internet means it's out there effectively forever. Both issues are somewhat abstract but may have an impact.

I worry that kids are more vulnerable to bullying because changes in how bullies are dealt with (or prevented from being dealt with) leave their victims without the hardscrabble coping methods of earlier decades. And I also worry that some of the social changes we've been experiencing since the 1960 have put more kids in vulnerable positions while society's protections for them are slow to catch up or facing intensifying backlash.

But that's probably a topic for another conversation.


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I could see going with a paladin and dumping either Int or Dex.


The Date

To Piper, Kaye says, airily, "Oh, it's nothing important. Just another young lad for whom the reach of his ardor exceeds the grasp of his purse. He will learn his lesson eventually. Most do."

She takes Alara by the arm and begins to steer her to a table. "But now, as for the two of you together, you are not leaving here until you try the latest from the Two Knight Brewery. I promised Gaven that I'd showcase it here at the Kitten and he's been working so hard at getting the brewery back in its best form. It's a mead he's calling Wade's Wildflower in honor of his brother. He says the honey it's made from comes from the wildflowers growing in the fields Wade used to till."
She waves a server over.
"I won't prime the pump any further. I want to pass on your honest opinion." she says as the server pours the mead into a pair of wine glasses.

Piper is familiar with the Two Knight Brewery - run by the Deverin family, Gaven being the current brewmaster. His partner in running the place, Wade, was murdered by Chopper in the Late Unpleasantness several years ago. That set the quality of things back for some time. The brewery was damaged by a brief giant invasion but has since been repaired with Gaven showing a new determination.


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Music is also a powerful source of magic in legends. Aside from charms and enchantments in Mediterranean lore, Finnish myths include songs manipulating very powerful magic.

Then there's also the inspiration of fighting while singing which Tolkien makes much use of through the Rohirrim, inspired by Northern European cultures.

Those are also fine inspirations for the bard's role.


I think so. Any requirements you guys want me to pass on? I'm guessing an arcane caster of about any stripe would probably do.

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