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Mynafee Gorse

Bill Dunn's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 4,744 posts (5,402 including aliases). 4 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 16 aliases.


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Sounds like a potential style clash to me and nothing more. If their style doesn't work for you, let them know. I'd strongly suggest giving it a few sessions before making that decision.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The rules aren't really borked. They can't cover every possible contingency that groups of gamers will throw at them. Better for the GM to make a ruling and move on. That's what he's for.


With Zaiobe on the spot, a good many of you get the feeling that she's quite sincere about wanting to take Kikonu down. She veritably seethes with hatred for him.

Piper, Ash, Masamune:
Very perceptive group of you guys. As far as general trustworthiness, you get the feel she is sizing you all up. He eyes dart a bit from item to item, weapon to weapon, as if assessing how formidable you are.

Both Alara and Piper receive Zaiobe's telepathic suggestion (no, not the spell, just a suggested course of action), "Good! We should lay an ambush for him. Because we were once close, I can communicate with him without touching him. I can suggest an intimate meeting and draw him out without his corbies. The question is - where?"


If we're looking OK with it, the next question is when to start. We could start right away - as 3rd level characters, that means everyone would get a +1 resistance bonus, even without wearing a cloak. (Alara, I'll come up with a suitable replacement for the cloak Walther gave you. It'll be a relatively minor thing but it would be something not obsoleted by the auto-bonus system.)


The whole attainment of clothing as +0 armor basically means that even regular clothing allows you to apply the inherent armor bonus. Mage armor is pretty much always going to be better, but some armor bonus will apply (once it starts up at 4th level) even when the spell isn't in effect.
The other main benefit is you don't have to reserve your neck slot for natural armor, shoulder slot for cloaks of resistance, or a ring slot for a ring of protection. You'll still have some kind of automatic bonus apply.


Jacen "Ash" Teleris wrote:
I'm using one of the variants in my Reign of Winter game and I love it. It has made it so my players aren't all wearing generic stuff (which this does as well). The thing to note (to everyone who is asking) is that it doesn't remove magic items, it just removes the base bonus stuff. It does, also, call for a reduction in wealth by level, because you aren't going to need as much magic gear. The only worry for me is weapons keeping up, but it doesn't really effect Ash. With that in mind, could I propose weapon enchants or even look into 3rd party or 3.5 weapon enchants, since for myself and Rawnie, we will not be using much in the way of weapon enchants. Also, will you still be throwing us the campaign specific magic weapons and such? (even if they are missing their inherent +1/+2/etc)

I would still be using whatever campaign-based weapons are in the treasure drops. They'd just be there for their add-on abilities and not raw pluses. Those would come inherently and can be used with any weapon a PC "attunes" to (which can be switched fairly easily). The rules as written generally call for the inherent bonus to ablate a little when using weapons with special enchantments - which effectively means a PC pays for a keen enchantment by reducing their inherent bonus by 1 when using that weapon - but I may ignore that since it's harder to bookkeep and, primarily affecting martial characters, has relatively little game balance danger.


Oh, yeah. The utility stuff would still be around, but bonus-based stuff would be supplanted.


I was thinking about some of the optional ideas in Pathfinder Unchained lately and I was thinking that one rule might be particularly fitting for this group. I've noticed there isn't a lot of chatter about dividing treasure, even when there are useful items to divide up. That's fine with me, by the way, because I like a group that has other priorities than the equipment upgrade grind. But taking too relaxed a view on that topic may leave the group a bit underpowered.

So my suggestion is that people review this link here: Automatic Bonus Progression
It's basically PCs picking up inherent bonuses. Magic items, from my end, would not be based on lots of +1 rings, +1 cloaks, +1 items, stat boosters, less routine math-oriented and so on and that would leave more utility-expanding items around.

Check out the link (or a copy of Pathfinder Unchained if you have it) and let me know what you think.


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Jane "The Knife" wrote:


check out the history of the Janissaries in the Ottoman Empire sometime.

or the Egyptian mamluks...

Check out the history of Janissary revolts and corruption sometime. Or the history of slave sabotage in the United States.


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Jane "The Knife" wrote:


?? what ??
You don't trust me, because I'm a slave? what?
There is no more chance of my "switching sides" by being sold in the middle of a mission than one of my companions. Less in fact.

edit: from the Wikipedia article I quoted above, "... the belief that slaves in a position to be privy to their masters' affairs would be too virtuously loyal to reveal damaging evidence unless coerced...."

The risk of a slave being sold while on mission may be low. But the risk of disloyalty or sabotage could be high depending on the slave's relationship with his or her owners. Getting coerced service from someone really isn't the same as willing service and comes with risks.


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thejeff wrote:

And then you go shoot down the idea that there's no racial aspect to slavery in Golarion.

Cause that, right there, that's racial chattel slavery. Not "Transatlantic Slave Trade", perhaps, but then the worst excesses of US slavery took place after the slave trade was stopped.

If the slavery in Cheliax were specifically oriented toward enslaving people based upon skin color, like the Garundi, then I think you'd be looking at a parallel institution. But, while halflings may be preferred slaves in Cheliax, I don't think slavery there is limited to halflings.


Zaiobe responds to Alara's question, "Putting on a play? That is him. He believes himself a great artist, but his "masterpiece" is all garbage. He did not take my voice, but he has used it against me. I do not understand how he did it but it was needlessly cruel."

She looks in Ash's direction, but continues to direct her telepathic communication at Alara and Piper. "Kikonu does not come here often. But if he knows you are in the castle, he may come looking or send corbies. My presence will not stop that... unless we work together."


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ThePuppyTurtle wrote:
Except there are loads of basically benevolent organizations in real life... unless you really were agreeing with me and not being sarcastic.

As well as loads of organizations that take on institutional secrecy as an interest as well as an us vs them mentality like the aforementioned FBI, CIA, and a host of corporations, religious organizations, and even charities. If the trope is overused, it may be so because it mirrors so much of reality.


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ThePuppyTurtle wrote:
Hrothdane wrote:
Someone thought the Decemvirate needed more "evil points," apparently.
What the hell is it about large organizations which main characters work for that makes the writers feel the need to always make them evil? Why the hell can't the good guys ever work for an organization that is legitimately virtuous and standing up against evil in morally sound ways?

But the Pathfinder Society aren't the good guys. They're adventurous guys looking for knowledge... for themselves to write about or stow away in places for their "top men" to examine. Even an Andoren-based adventure I've played has PCs retrieving a dangerous item for questionable motives like possibly cheating in a prestigious tournament. They're thieves with a glorified and self-serving motivation. There are more enlightened (in the sense of good aligned) factions within the organization but they exist cheek to cheek with devil worshipers and mobsters.


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Sort of yes, sort of no. You really don't want to step on another players toes - that's just bad etiquette. That said, have you worked with the slayer player at all or is it the GM being overly heavy-handed on the slayer's part? What's the slayer player's take on all of this - the way you're writing it sounds like it's all coming from the GM.


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lokidr wrote:


NobodysHome wrote:
We just do level-ups together so we're all on the same page.

I don't know if it's extreme, but it seems to describe your method. You add the restriction that players sit with all the other players and you when they level. If someone has to leave early or can't make it to the game that week, do they level alone or have their own leveling session?

Maybe I'm slow, but I take a lot of time to consider options. My paladin/oracle has a lot of odd options to weigh. The straight barbarian, not so much. Group leveling will lead to a lot of snap decisions and all that implies for both DM and players.

How often are you just starting to think about what option to take when the GM says "Level up!"? Chances are you have some pretty good ideas what you want to do before that happens. Plus, if any questions come up about your PC and what he can do, everyone is there and problems can be hashed out and everyone put on a common level of understanding of a particular feature.

lokidr wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
In my mind, it IS a cooperative game.

Cooperative means operate together. If I'm the tank, I don't need to discuss taking options to better tank to cooperate: it's my job and I should do it well. I don't ask each round what I should do, even as I consider other players in my decisions. If this IS a role playing game, the players need to play their own role.

But in many cases the role they pick, as in the role within the party, is selected in consultation with the other players. Player 1 is taking Feat A, Player 2 picks Feat B to complement Player 1. Or Player 1 is going to be a rogue with good lock-picking skills so Player 2, who is playing a wizard, elects not to gear up to make wands of knock. That too makes this a cooperative game.


Jacen "Ash" Teleris wrote:
He also has a awesome miniature in the battles line ;)

And there's a Lamashtu as well. But my favorite may be Squealy Nord.


Pazuzu. Yes, there's a known name. He may not be as well-known as his rival Lamashtu, the Mother of Monsters, but he has a certain notoriety as a demon lord. He's reputed to be the father of Deskari, another demon lord who is best known on Golarion as the main force behind the Worldwound. Pazuzu may also have a Sanpoint connection - the "Late Unpleasantness". When local carver Jervis Stoot was revealed as the serial killer known as "Chopper", they found an altar decorated with the tongues and eyes of his victims and dedicated to some bird demon. Sheriff Belor Hemlock (chief deputy a the time) still refuses to get any more specific than that - he may not want to know more. But Piper's studies enable him to recognize that the altar was probably dedicated to Pazuzu.

Zaiobe turns her attention to Alara. "I do not know what it is that you need to cure your friend's illness, but maybe we can work together because we face the same problem - the current master of the castle - Kikonu. He has hurt me for the final time and I want retribution. Together, your friends and I, we can defeat him. And with him gone, the corbies should be less of a problem. What do you say?"


Alara cannot hear Piper's telepathic voice via Zaiobe's link. She can relate what she communicates, but not acts as a conduit.

Zaoibe's voice rings in Piper's head, "The wind was Pazuzu of the 4 Wings. He took my voice as a sign to me. There are places I must go and I have... wasted too much time here."

She spies Masamune and Ash coming up the stairs. "How many of you are there?'


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My take on the resale of magic items is that 50% is a convenience factor. Some things will sell for less, some for more, but consistently trying to get more will take time - potentially lots of time looking for an optimal buyer. If they wanted to hold off on selling something in order to get a better price, they're either out of adventuring time longer or they're hiring agents for their sales (and I think they'd charge about 10-20% for that service).


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I don't generally ban stuff outright as much as I discourage things for thematic purposes. "X won't fit this campaign well, so let me suggest something else..." More like that.


Zaiobe watches Piper with an astonished look. She then drops her bow and grabs at Piper with her now free hand. When she makes contact, Piper "hears" in his head, a feminine voice, "Can you not speak either? Did the wind take your voice too?"
The voice seems to be quite excited.

As far as understanding her telepathic ability, not many magic items or spells come to mind, and none of them require physical contact like she seems to need to communicate. However, telepathic powers are often associated with extra-planar or divine sources, as are related curses like her apparent muteness


The winged woman's lips don't move, but Alara can suddenly hear a foreign voice in her own mind. "I am Zaiobe. Do not be afraid. This is the only way I have to speak." Zaiobe's grip tightens on Alara's hand as she communicates this, resisting any sudden reflex to pull away.
"What are you doing here? Nobody comes here."

For a better look at Zaiobe art than the wee little chit I made for the maps, check the links at the top of the page. I'll clip and post other art of major NPCs and opponents chapter by chapter as you encounter them (if there's splashy art in the books).


The winged woman doesn't seem particularly hostile. As the ninja reaches out, she holds her own hand steady with no sign of treachery that Alara can detect.

But as far as what's going on? That's a bit difficult to tell, other than the winged woman wanting Alara to take her hand.


Piper:
Piper easily recognizes the woman as a harpy - creatures best known for singing a captivating song that will so enthrall listeners that they will stand contentedly as the harpy rips apart their flesh. Bards can, of course, counteract a harpy's song with their own music.

The winged woman transfers the arrow she is holding back to its quiver and then makes a beckoning gesture with her empty hand. She extends that hand toward Alara, palm up, as if she wants Alara to take her hand. As she does so, she cocks her head just a little as if she were asking a question.
She does this without uttering a word or other vocal sound.


As Alara reaches the top of the stairs, she feels a slight breeze and smells the fresh salt air of the harbor as well as something else... something more like rot.

The room at the top of the tower is lined with bookshelves, though most of their contents currently lie in heaps on the floor. A large nest of grasses, branches, and strips of cloth is tucked into a corner of the room and rustles with air currents that blow in through an open door. Through that door, Alara can see a balcony overlooking the bay.

On the balcony, a creature stands. Her features are at least partly feminine, but cruel and harsh. She has large bird-like wings on her back and talons for feet. She holds a bow in one hand, an arrow in the other, but both are lowered, the arrow not yet put to string. She appears wary, but also curious. Her eyes narrow as she scrutinizes Alara's appearance.


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I'm not sure I'd go for aid another here. Seems more like a heal check replacing the save to me. That said, once you've rolled and you know you're 2 points short, it's too late to get the help. They need to be part of the check, not brought in retroactively.


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I haven't banned the use of Leadership, in fact, I think it can be really useful in rounding out a group or getting a PC a bunch of useful contacts (good use for those followers).

I let the player control their cohort in combat under the assumption that they should work well together, though I will veto obviously suicidal actions on the cohort's part. As GM, I play the cohort under other situations and will use them to supply information to the players as best I can.

I have let the players build their cohorts, but I will also build for them too based on a few specifications. I make it clear that I will be striving to build a complete and well-rounded character, not just a one-trick bag of hit points.

I don't even worry about using a cohort to craft magic items. I find the concerns about that being a problem are completely overblown.


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Other alternatives:
Bonus feat - if you're worried about that being too good, limit the choices to stuff that's useful but may not be a priority to buy. Save boosters are a good choice, for example.

+2 bonus to a stat - The PCs can be counted on to boost their highest stat, so consider boosting their second-highest stat. It'll affect the power curve less than their highest and still be kind of nice.

Start using the hero point system (if you aren't already) - not as good as mythic but still a persistent boost.


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Think about that mythic power. Even with a single mythic tier, they get to use that 5 times per day. That's a pretty hefty bonus right there even they use it just to get +1d6 on 5 d20 rolls each day. Add to the other abilities that could be driven by mythic power and you've got a pretty big boost.


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I think you're right to butch his character under the terms of the campaign. But I agree that it's probably best to hash it out between players. He clearly can't handle the negative aspects of PvP, so it should probably come off the table as an option.


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Sambo wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
It really does not matter because if you attempt to use either ability you are breaking the rules of the fight. Cheating in a friendly fight is not really an honorable thing to do. Probably not enough to cause you to fall, but if I were the GM your abilities would fail as a warning.
Ok, i guess i have to give the background anyway. My character doesn't care about the local laws or even those of the country. It is an orc/goblin/ogre country that we entered just to find an important dwarf prisoner being held by the ogres. My deity certainly does not care about being honorable to ogres. My deity is Iomedae, god of glory, sun, truth maybe, and some other irrelevant things. The paladins of this god send crusades on "innocent" evil races, monsters, and other groups. I have a phylactery of faithfulness, so as long as I contemplate something I can't really fall. Keep in mind that only evil acts and breaking the code of conduct make a paladin fall, not breaking laws(I have to say, most of the time breaking the code of conduct would mean breaking the law, but not in this particular case). The only reasons I am concerned with the rules of this fight are: 1. We could fail to get the dwarf. 2. I could lose an important finger, like a thumb or something!

Laws shmaws, if you agreed to the terms of the fight and you break them, that's your own honor on the line. While it wouldn't be something that would require a fall, I'd be slapping you with stiff penance if I were the GM and you cheated in the fight. Iomedae may be a crusader but she's got integrity and honor and should expect the same of her paladins. The oath written up in Inner Sea Gods calls out giving honor to worthy enemies and suffering death before dishonor. There's a nice line in there "I will not tarnish her glory with base actions."

My advice would be that if you can't win honorably, lose honorably.


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Ssalarn wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:


I have played SWSE - playing in a campaign of it now (well, not right now, I'm at work). And while I can understand the mechanical equivalence of using a static defense instead of a roll, I think it's where the game starts to go off rail - particularly when 4e D&D picked it up.
For one thing, I don't like that they're static. It means in SWSE, I can't use the Force to bump my roll to save by 1d6 - and defensive use of the Force should be one of its primary elements. Having the defenses static means your Jedi are using the Force to improve their offense and that doesn't fit well with the Jedi philosophy.
Or they actually put together a suite of defensive light side powers, which more accurately represents "using the Force defensively".

That might make sense for some characters or situations, but it doesn't for others like a force-sensitive character who doesn't have force training, and thus no formal powers, but still has an unconsciously manipulated "luck" at avoiding getting hurt.

In addition, everyone gets to use it, not just force sensitive characters and better modeling the force interacting with everybody (as it should).

Ssalarn wrote:

So let them spend an action point to boost their save. Just because the save values are static doesn't mean the character is.

The problem with that is they're not making the decision off their own roll - which they would be able to see - but mine - which they can't. And that makes it a more inefficient metagame mechanic than when it's used offensively or when trying to beat a DC with a skill and that kind of offends my design sensibilities.


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Ssalarn wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:
Characters have saving throws as last-ditch defenses against things that would normally have no defense
Anyone ever play Star Wars Saga Edition? You didn't make saving throws, and you didn't have an armor class. Instead, you had three static defenses (Reflex, Fortitude, and Will), and different attacks targeted those defenses. Physical attacks and blaster shots targeted your reflex, Force effects might target any of the 3, and different types of armor shored up different defenses to different degrees. I really liked this, and I wouldn't mind it being the norm for Pathfinder.

I have played SWSE - playing in a campaign of it now (well, not right now, I'm at work). And while I can understand the mechanical equivalence of using a static defense instead of a roll, I think it's where the game starts to go off rail - particularly when 4e D&D picked it up.

For one thing, I don't like that they're static. It means in SWSE, I can't use the Force to bump my roll to save by 1d6 - and defensive use of the Force should be one of its primary elements. Having the defenses static means your Jedi are using the Force to improve their offense and that doesn't fit well with the Jedi philosophy. I also tend to use action point systems and those work great if the PCs can throw a point to add 1d6 to their saving throws when they see the die roll that comes up. So, color me skeptical on saves as static defenses. Static AC gets a pass on this for me because - well - it's a sacred cow.

Then when 4e rolled around, too many lists of powers were like checklists. Exploit that targets AC, check. Exploit that targets, Ref, check. Exploit that targets Fort, check. Blah blah blah. While I'm OK with dynamically picking a defense (or save) to go with a particular attack effect and doing things on the fly, 4e's approach was just way to sterile and formulaic. I felt like the game was descending to a "pick the right shaped peg to fit the hole that was key to the monsters vulnerabilities" snoozefest.

Personally, I like the messiness of rolling saves with PCs sometimes doing well and sometimes not but putting that decision point in the hands of the player along with any metagame structures to ameliorate the results (like hero points).


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Zardnaar wrote:


So after 6 years of Pathfinder being around and perhaps up to 15 years of 3.x games I was wondering what peoples opinion here is on sacred cows? How many of the following things do you regard as essential to your enjoyment of Pathfinder in particular or 3.x gaming in general.

None of those things rise to the level of sacred cow. For sacred cows, I'd be looking more at:

1. Vancian casting model
2. 6 stats, ranged 3-18 on a bell curve
3. healing is divine magic, not arcane
4. paladins are primarily designed around their LG model and fight evil
5. humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, half-elves, and half-orcs are core PC races
6. level based advancement
7. class based abilities
8. fighters fight, rangers track, rogues find traps, wizards use spells, clerics heal, monks use martial arts styles - each of these may do a bit more than those options, but those options are core features to those classes
9. Dragons come in good metallic and evil chromatic varieties
10. Characters have saving throws as last-ditch defenses against things that would normally have no defense

And so on...


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Stuff I was listening to when I was 11?

AC/DC, Blondie, Cheap Trick, the Cars, Supertramp, Styx, Queen. Lots of good albums around 1979-80.


Since all seems to be quiet from upstairs, I'll move you along - assuming your frequent tactic of Alara moving stealthily ahead...

The upper room's chamber appears to be a form of study. Most of the furniture - couches, drawing tables, empty bookshelves - lies in disarray. But one lone writing desk and chair, in the center of the room, stands apart. It is heaped with pages of parchment and paper.

There are three exits of note from this room other than the stairs to the ground floor - one leads deeper into the castle, one leads to the outer wall's walkway, and the third are stairs leading further up the tallest tower of the castle.

Alara's Perception: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (20) + 8 = 28
The elf ninja's keen ears hear faint sounds on the floor above. The rustling of grass in a breeze, maybe?

Upper floor map updated, Alara placed on it. All other PCs still in the chamber below.


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DM Beckett wrote:
THAC0 wasn't really as bad as a lot of people seem to think. I like the D20 To Hit system better, but I'm honestly tempted to say that it's more problematic or complicated than THAC0, if you remember all the various modifiers that may or may not apply on any given round. I can't count how many times I've heard "Oh, Oh. I forgot to add in the +2 for _____, does that still miss?"

As many buffs as there are in 3e/PF, a lot of people forget that 2e had a lot of modifiers as well. You could stack bless, chant, and prayer together, get bonuses for attacking from the rear or flank, negate shields attacking from the rear or opposite flank, as well as gain the same situational bonuses you see in PF.

DM Beckett wrote:


Another aspect I liked about 2E is that there was an upper limit to most things. Both from an asthetic point of view and a mechanical one. For example, if you managed to get to a Strength Score of 25, you knew that you where basically amongst the strongest individual in existence. On par with deities of Strength, the Hulk, etc. . . Similarly, Skill where defined. Or rather defined against everything in existence rather than things of your CR/HD. So, if you had a Rank in (the equivalent to) Knowledge Religion, you where actually very proficient about that, on par with many of the greatest scholars in the world(s) about Religion.

This is, I believe, an important point of difference between 1e/2e and 3e/PF. By comparison, the target numbers you needed to hit in 1e/2e were tightly constrained. ACs ranged from 10 to -10 (with a few special exceptions), Saving Throws were all within a d20's range. The change in the 3e family drives a lot of impulse to optimize to keep up as well as give you the easy tools to do so with the magic item economy. It's still possible to play with the older style, but you have to make that part of your table's culture. Fortunately for me, this is relatively easy since we've been playing since before the 3e family of games was published. We've already got the older school culture.

This is one reason why some of us from the older days of D&D are finding a 5e so refreshing compared to PF.


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Damon Griffin wrote:
Full disclosure: I've pretty much ignored the Ultimate universe at Marvel, and have no idea what the FF are like over there.

For the most part, Ultimate FF was pretty good. Playing on the wunderkind trope of super-science was a nice alternative to the original FF's distinguished lab coat dude with beautiful young assistant trope. It's worth checking out.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:
In other words, who should the designers please? Themselves first.
Have you ever known one that did not?

Then I'd say deciding who to please isn't that much of a conundrum after all.


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Not to sound too flip, but your logical thing to request, depending on the reader's perspective, may look a lot like telling Paizo the rules need to be changed to fix a problem that someone else considers a feature.


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Wrath wrote:


6) This one is my personal one, only something to try if your game style/party matches. Make sure he treats it like a companion, not just a number addition to his character. If he starts mistreating it or deliberately sacrificing its health without regard to the animal itself, have the companion begin to refuse his instructions. Insight check and handle animal skills can determine why it's starting to rebel. If he keeps it up, have it leave him.

I don't think that's the only possible interpretation of the nature bond that grants a druid an animal companion. I could also spin it as nature providing a servant or protector to the druid, a tool or resource, not a pet. That's something that, hopefully, a GM and player would come to some kind of agreement on - how much of it is a personal, emotional bond and how much is a natural resource.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
You can't please everyone, so who do you please? A conundrum indeed.

When in doubt, I'd tell a game designer to stick to his or her vision of the game like I would anyone else generating intellectual property. I think it's better to pick a hill or two to stand on and see the market that develops around it than try to be everything to everyone.

In other words, who should the designers please? Themselves first.


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Set wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
We finally get to a big 'F4 using their powers' action scene, only to realize it's the climax of the film. This is it. There is no more.

Was it at least a teamwork scene, like the action scene at the end of the first movie, where all four used their powers for one coordinated stunt (involving fire, force fields, water, etc.)? 'Cause while the first FF movie lacked team action scenes, IMO (just the bridge accident and then the climax, really), at least there was a deliberate attempt to arrange for a teamwork display for the big finale, and that I appreciated, since the Four are kind of meant to be a family and work together like a (to steal the oft-used quote from the comic) 'well-oiled machine.'

It could have been better but, for the most part, it was a decent teamwork scene. It at least showed a bit of promise.

And that's part of the disappointment of this movie. It shows glimmers of promise here and there, only to have them fizzle.


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Bloodrealm wrote:


I think you and many other people missed something in the OP. The so-called Lawful Good deity is the one CAUSING the end of the world and wants the Paladins to kill everyone beforehand for no reason.

If anything, that's an even more ridiculous situation and, as a player, it would annoy me even more.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I doubt I'd ever say looting was a "Good" action as far as alignment goes. Neutral, sure. Evil, potentially. But it would ultimately depend on the situation.


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As a player, being put in a situation like this would pretty much piss me off. Why exactly would good gods be pre-empting a doomsday scenario by engaging in mass murder? How fun or satisfying would that be to play through it? Wouldn't a more LG reaction from a deity be trying to find a way to stop the doomsday? Or protect their own flocks from having their souls consigned to the Abyss by the doomsday? Either seem more appropriate than trying to kill 'em all before evil gets around to it.


If you would like to do some exploring in other parts of the keep, where do you want to go? There are stairs leading up in the rounded part of the conference room and a door that has yet to be examined next to Ash's token on the map, as far as easily noted alternatives.


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bookrat wrote:


To be fair to your friend, I've yet to read any book (pathfinder or otherwise) as flavorful as 2e's Planescape campaign setting. I mean - come on - you have the entire entry box set into the campaign setting written in-character from a person from that campaign setting. And nearly every Planescape book is written like that! It's fantastic! I've yet to read a pathfinder book written from the perspective of a character in that setting. It just doesn't happen anymore. Think about it - how many pathfinder books are written in heavy slang of the local culture the book was written for? I haven't found one yet.

You've just described the reason I hated reading Planescape materials. I found that patois extremely annoying.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I doubt that much changed with respect to Doom's origin. I wouldn't take the rumors and comments (even from the actor) that dropped and the attendant nerdrage and conclusion jumping without a massive grain of salt. Having taken a more recent look at Tony Kebbell's comments and having seen the movie, I'm not seeing a whole lot of contradictory information - just incomplete information that people did a crappy job of guessing in the details with.

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