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Its trying to have his cake and eat it too.
He needs to keep the more liberal parts of the state on his side and keep the base showing up to vote for him in the primaries so he's trying to have his cake and eat it too.
Otherwise known as making a profession politician check.
Ah...I got you...but I disagree. People will have flaws...that's part of human nature....and should be expected and understood...however "Rights" don't play into that in anyway.
Well, when does a flaw rise to the level of government intervention? Eating meat, body piercings? Tatoos? Obesity? Anger issues? Obstinancy towards authority, complaining against the majority?
To some extent people have a right to be themselves, warts and all.
Does a homicidal killer have a "right" to kill?
Of course not. Because that's the example of one persons right to something incredibly frivolous taking away someone elses most fundamental rights (all of them really).
No. Do Christians have a "right" to discriminate against non-christians in this country ? NO.
To some extent they do, insofar as discriminate has a definition other than the stuff they can't legally do. Their charities don't have to help you. They don't have to let you in your church, they don't have to offer their blessings,sacraments etc. I get really leery of government actions that compel a though shalt rather than though shalt nots.
Ideally, the government acts on the cultures interests.
Well, what if the culture is a bunch of chinchilla earmuffs ? Lots of cultures (most?) have ideas that are absolutely horrible. This is a case for example where the law IS enshrining a deeply held belief of the culture.
What about the individual? That's the problem even with a democracy, ESPECIALLY the democracy. Whats good for the majority, or rather those that wind up speaking for the majority, can be unduly harsh on minorities. Government is a blunt, imprecise and sometimes downright lethal tool to bring to a problem.
I think it should be brought to bear on this issue, but only with the acknowledgement that its the only way to fix a serious problem thats messing up peoples lives and has in the past been used for whole sale oppression of huge swaths of the population.
No. You said it was a character flaw. I agree. While I think I ultimately agree with the solution here I'm a little worried at some of the underlying philosophies.
People have a certain right to their character flaws.
If so, then the government should go to all lengths needed to protect it's people. A government is FOR the people...or it deserves to be toppled.
A government without limits is a totalitarian state even in the pursuit of a noble goal . While I think we agree that intervention is warranted in this case, its because the level of discrimination has frequently risen to warrant government intervention, not because its the job of government to fix peoples character flaws.
The mistake (or effective tactic? I can't decide) libertarians make is to argue that government involvement is never the solution. I don't like a lot of the opposite idea here that I'm seeing, that government can intervene whenever it wants on any pretext.
The problem is that outside of some weird multiclassing your animal companion seems to need to advance to level 4 and take a point of intelligence increase to be able to take the extra slot feat, and then be fifth level to actually take it. (or catch and release your animal companion and acquire a new one at 4) By that point he'd probably have the strength to carry you anyway.
Boro beads (pearls of power for alchemists) and extracts of ant haul would give you a solution before that for the same price.
Discrimination is not protected under the First Amendment because it infringes on the rights of others
This would be true if different right never came into conflict with each other, but the fact is that they do. Laws are really nothing more than settling how to deal with competing rights when it comes down to it. Its very possible to use ones freedom of speech or freedom of the press to discriminate against people and infringe on their rights.
I believe the answer for a libertarian s both should be legal, not because its ok, but because government interference in private matters is worse (and how an individual decides how to run their business IS a private matter)
Its pretty straitforward. I think the rogue is a bad class. I think that just about anything you want to do mechanically you can do better with another class.
Trapspotter: Yes, it is, but you were asking about examples of good rogue talents. Did you mean rogue only or what? Considering how many rogue talents have been farmed out to other classes, that's a really important qualifier to leave out of your initial question.
Its part of the larger question of "Why be a rogue?" If the answer is trapspotting then you're out of luck, because there are classes that give you trapspotting and more hit points and better saves and more bab.
Black market connections: Um, if you're shopping for magic items, then you obviously aren't crafting them.
Why bother shopping if you can craft? The rogue gets the ability to get what they want. The wizard gets the ability to get exactly what they want but at half price. Black market connections is a bad reason to be a rogue.
Nin Tal avail to rogues Pressure points
I had pressure points on a tengu ninja. It really never worked the way I'd hoped. Basically it was move up, sneak once for 1 dex damage which.. has no effect. Next round claw claw beak 3 dex damage but they're probably dead anyway. Its a very minor bonus to hit.
Rt. Trap spotter
Kind of meh and very dm dependant.
weapon training, combat training, minor magic -acud splash, major magic - true strike, and snap shot.
If you're trading class abilities into feats why not be a fighter?
There's a problem with your question.
To a libertarian there is a difference between "Something is ok to do" and "something should be LEGAL to do". It is entirely possible that discrimination is seriously not ok, but that its still not as not ok as government intruding into how people conduct their business.
@ BigNorseWolf - Trap Spotter (i.e., I always win against traps), offensive defense (i.e., rogues who are doing it right aren't squishy), black market connections (man, that's a weird one, but funny), various talents that grant feats you'd want want anyways, major magic talent, fast stealth, etc.
If you need it, trapspotter is available from other, better dipping classes.
Offensive defense was nerfed
Black market connections is a hell of a lot worse than magic item creation feats, or just a teleport spell.
Most classes willingly,repeatedly and gleefully burn feats to take extra [class feature here] . That the list of best rogue talents includes going in the other direction is telling.
And that's without getting into master talents (which a rogue actually gets more of than the normal talents).
IF your campaign gets to 10th level you're running into the god wizards becoming reality rather than theorycrafting by then.
And then starting with the APG, rage powers got vastly better (I'm looking at you, witch hunter and greater beast totem) while rogue talents shifted from low-power, always-on abilities to low-power, 1/day abilities.
Most play isn't limited to the CRB, so this is making my point.
Rogue talents, rage powers, alchemist discoveries, investigator talents, etc., are clearly supposed to be on the same level with each other, and yet most rogue talents are just inexplicably worse.
That's always struck me as a really weird design decision. I guess we'll see how Unchained handles rogue talents.
*clinks glass* heres hoping to unchained rogues.
Yeah, if the only reason is so that players can't choose to play fast/slow to mitigate "low reward" scenarios, then all that player is going to do is simply not play that scenario with that character. I don't see how that's a valid reason.
Or if the party gets halfway through and runs away , that drops their treasure so someone might say "yeah, we'll take this one slow..."
Tim Statler wrote:
That its a message board meme and that the meme is wrong are two separate things.
Universalist mage is the worst choice. Specilization isn't nearly as restrictive as previous editions. Even if you had one opposed school memorized at every level you'd still be back to the same number of spells as a generalist. Usually you can avoid that , especially with your more valuable high level spell slots.
Both of which are submissive gestures, not that unusual in a doge approaching an unfamiliar human and wanting to show that they're not a threat. Its pretty likely that the dog just wants to say hello.
Not that you can't get bit by a dog with any body language, but Its ears up tail up and wagging like a metronome= I think i can take you BRING IT PUNK
The character was an inquisitor and WAS built to do a large number of tasks. But the dc 20ish skill checks meant that rounds 1, 2, 1nd 3 rolls of.. well, 1 2 and 3 on the die meant that I was't going to get anywhere before the chase scene ended one way or the other.
The recent chase scenes in this one and the merchants wake have been a lot more popular because
-They're a group effort, the entire party moves together rather than playing an individual board game
-A lot more "roll the die now figure out what you're doing later" since you don't have to figure out who's rolling what in advance to avoid gaming the sysem.
-You're participating from start to finish. I remember in rise of the goblin guild I missed the first two rolls... and it was pretty clear I'd never get back in it, so i went for coffee.
A shatterproof backboard is the real key to that.
I believe he's saying that the free market solutions to bigotry don't work, and are evidenced not to work, so the libertarian hypothesis that the free market will take care of it is bunk, because evidence > ideals.
That wasn't the question. I asked if you memorized it and understood it in relation to every other rule that might apply to it ? Big difference between that and reading it a few times. Those rules get a little crazy and counter intuitive. You should see the looks on DMs faces when I tell them that a druid in rat form can breathe underwater.
I also print out the pages on anything I'm using and take it with me to the game. If the GM can do enough homework to put an entire game together, I can be bothered to learn how to play a character.
And that's ALL that's required to end rules lawyering?
The vast majority of rules lawyering isn't not knowing the rules, or even bouncing weird ruless off of each other, its looking at the same words and coming to alternative meanings of the exact same words. (quite often, whichever reading gives the player the advantage). Knowing, citing, or printing out the rules isn't going to help you there.
hare Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).
Reading that as one big related clause or as two separate clauses are both fairly common.
Do you memorize everything you read, and understand the often contradictory and bizarrely placed and cross referenced rules and how they interact with each other? Something as straitforward as the druid requires having the druid page , the monster they're turning into, and the beast shape spell, as well as the polymorph section of the magic chapter all pinging off of each other.
Roo 666 wrote:
So... I start my Goblin Boone and choose Goblin Marauder. The minimum weight of a naked goblin is 32 lb. The bat can only carry a 30lb load before it gets in the medium load category. It now cannot fly. Who's the genius that wrote this one?
The minimum weight is 27 pounds. You don't HAVE to be male... :)
But besides that, yeah. Wand of ant haul (you can hand them to party members if you can't cast it yourself)
Never trust anyone or anything that doesn't trust dogs.
This thread is a great example. Most people are commenting here that he is wrong in his interpretation of the board's general opinions on these subjects. Then many go on to list their opinions, nearly all of which say the rogue is weak, and ever since classes X, Y, and Z they can't really do anything as well as other classes...but we would never call you stupid.
He's not picking up on half the reason WHY people say the rogue is weak.
Its not JUST his lack of ability in combat, its also his lack of ability in skills and versatility. The idea that the rogue trades combat effectiveness for skill supremacy and versatility and thats ok doesn't pan out, not because its nots ok but because it simply isn't true.
Combat effectiveness are traded out for Rogue talents are that are objectively horrible and extra skill points that can diversify your skill set but do little if anything to improve a wide range of skills that the rogue will, at best, be mediocre with.
There is somewhere between little an no reason why the same party member needs to climb the cliff, pick the lock, swim under the water, put a knife to the cooks throat and tell them to be silent, sneak past the kennels, lie to the guard about the shift change and talk to the princess about the value of her royal jewelry.
When other classes, particularly spellcasters, trade power for versatility they loose a little power and gain a lot of versatility. The rogue loses a lot for very little.
Kitsune are great for
Dervish dancer bards (which are better swashbuckler types than swashbucklers)
Dex based paladins (mixes oddly well with the swashbuckler)
Charming/Dashing rogue types.
There's a really fun Mouser Swashbuckler urban barbarian mix i want to try: basically you turn into a tiny fox, move into peoples space and annnoy them from there.
As mentioned, the enchanter thanks to their racial bonus.
Either that or they got a lot of Sheilda Hedemarch adventures...