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So I could have pretty much all I wanted but I can't travel in my lamp? That's still pretty cool for a backstory/rp. I'm still really new to pathfinder in general, how would the mechanism of the lamp work or how would I gain one starting off?
For PFS your downtime doesn't have any mechanical benefits, so you can pretty much say what you're doing in your off time.
One way i often introduce the party is to have ye olde messenger boy come around and ask the players what they're doing at 5 o clock on the morning.
One of my druids hasn't left bat form in 7 levels, he lives in a hollowed out silver maple in the park. My Kitsune swashbuckler stays at his mothers palatial estate. They function the same way No mechanics= no problem.
i can't think of a PFS legal way to do that with an Ifreet wizard (oddly enough its possible with a fox shape kitsuneor druid hanging out in a familiar carrier)
You can live in one on your downtime, but traveling inside a lamp has a lot of mechanical effects that you're not just allowed to have: protection from arrows and fireballs from ambushes for example.
John Compton wrote:
Perhaps issue boons based on a singing competition? :)
Volkard Abendroth wrote:
And some people are incapable of understanding context, being either myopic or obtuse. Even when provided the source for the existing definitions.
I agree with this but disagree about who it applies to.
You have provided a definition of bear.
I am asking for a definition of "teddy bear"
Using your logic, a "teddy bear" is in fact a mammal.
The rest of us are able to figure out what new words, and combinations of words, mean by observing the context in which they are used and comparing that context to existing definitions.
You seem to be not doing that. You are trying to use the word "Attack" as if it had one standard definition throughout the entire game, and it clearly does not. You cannot vital strike or smite evil with a fireball, even though fireballing the ogre tribe is an attack by the definition of invisibility.
The quote you posted from SKR seems to be warning you against this. So I'm not sure if i misunderstood your position or what here.
Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Are you going to argue that an invisible character can use combat maneuvers against an opponent without breaking invisibility?
All bears are mammals
Teddy bears are bears.
Teddy bears are mammals.
The question is not if grappling is an attack according to invisibility (it is), but what the compound phrase "grapple attack" means. Words do not always break down into their component parts very easily.
I can see no discernible reason to say "grapple attack" in place of grapple, grapple check, or grapple combat maneuvers. I CAN see why you would use it in place of "a combat maneuver check to maintain the grapple and take the damage your opponent with armored spikes" option: an option which tells you how to use armored spikes.
Correction, people embracing the change are acting as though that's the process. If the process is re writing things without respect to power level? Thats not going to balance the game at all.
A far more likely series of events:
Hold on, you forgot the entire reason why people are ticked..
-and then lets take the other option away from people in pfs.
It's mildly annoying that the vigilante figured out that martial abilities need to scale with level because otherwise they became a resource sink... but left the resource sink in place for the signature ability of the vigilante.
Okay, but which of these nerfs has achieved that? Which has even been a move in that direction?
Thats what changes the attitude from annoyed to frothing at the mouth. The actions are entirely arbitrary if thats the goal, and you're telling people with mid level optimization that they're dirty cheating power gamers but the gunslinger is just fine.
Early morning at the wolf center. Some of the neighbors had said that there was a pair of feral dogs seen in the nearby state park. So when i heard "ruff, ruff" I figured it might be them.
Ideally i could catch them and get them a hope. Acceptably i could shoo them off before they drive the wolves nuts.
walking around the place, the sound keeps moving ahead of me.
Alright, this is the spot i heard it. I don't see any tracks, i don't see any dogs, it's an almost entirely open field...
From above my head
Sitting on the branch is a raven. Doing a damned good dog impression.
I hope he never learned to repeat what i called him. Would have lead to some awkward conversations.
For a group who's party was made together to cover the basic food groups, knew each other, and could cover up for each others strengths and weaknesses right?
The metagame for pathfinder society is different. Sometimes the random bag of mixed nuts you get on a mission doesn't have a healer except the rogue with a wand of cure light wounds. Sometimes the two handed fighter can't pick up the slack for the two weapon fighter because its you and 4 healers. Sometimes someone with a level 11 insisted on going up with their friend when their friend has a kyra pregen...
You need to be able to kick it up a notch when that happens and that is 90% your build not your play. Hence people building characters that can survive without arcane support that become engines of mass desctruction when they have it: because they HAVE to build for times when they don't have it.
They intended for them to exist. It just doesn't work out nearly as intended (in so far as i can determine the intent from the cost in feats they make you pump into it) Archery, pounce, and full attack options wind up as near necessities for relevance at higher levels.
For the record, I consider "getting material weapons when possible" to be an assumption, rather than optimization. That's part of my baseline.
Right, but the two weapon fighter needs to get TWO of them. Which means on occasion one of his weapons isn't working nearly as well.
Hardness, DR/ ha ha! elemental, DR adamantine, and DR obscure alchemical metal you don't have are not rare. They are damn near omnipresent in PFS. If you cannot muscle through it, you are probably hosed. Damage is one area you can't help much with smart play. You have the math or you don't.
If it weren't an intended part of the game, getting around it wouldn't be limited to a specific vigilante talent or totem chain.
... or by using a longbow. Or being a pounce kitty/raptor of death. Or an unchained monk with Lu Kang's flying kick.
I think the designers intended more full attacks to happen than I see happening.
When we get into "if you're not Power Attack Falchion Guy or Beast Totem Barbarian, you don't belong in PFS", I don't think the system is the problem.
Both "if you're not Power Attack Falchion Guy or Beast Totem Barbarian, you don't belong in PFS" and "I'll be perfectly fine two weapon fighting what can go wrong" can be problems. (Albeit, one is a much more serious personal problem one can be a skill problem) Two weapon fighting can be good enough for pfs... with a modicum of system mastery. High strength ranger with a two handed weapon back up. Orc with a double axe. If valeros winds up as your only fighter in the wrong scenario you are in trouble.
Options and optimization haven't increased the power bar, it's made a lot of different options a heck of a lot more viable. You don't need to be a combat monster OR a whiz with traps now you're both. You're not a socialite or a caster now everyone at the party AND the laws of physics do what you want because you're so pretty.
What's really ticking people off is that This keystone was pretty neccesary to make some builds work (lorewarden to get some feat chains inside reasonable PFS levels) are getting nerfed but actual game breaking abilities remain in play (slumber hex happy witch anyone?)
That is just blatantly false
Well, it's half true.
Just about anyone can sit down and make a good, viable two handed fighter. Its pretty intuitive. Big guy lots of armor big sword good to go.
Some people want to make something harder, a two weapon fighter. Which runs into a lot of problems with the move or attack dichotomy, or running into something with hardness 10 at level 3 and not being able to hurt it.
Some options are a lot harder to make work than others. In pathfinder those differences are pretty vast compared to a lot of other systems.
Most campaigns move around a lot. While you can maintain a social identity under those situations, a lot of reputation abilities for your vigilante identity require resource sinks to move around with you.
Quick change is kind of a big deal. It's a resource tax. It really should come built into the vigilantee. Its a lot of little things like that that make the vigilantee not work as intended for me (i think it does work. Just not as intended)
None of these are really about how mechanically effective the class is.
They are. Because when you ask "how mechanically effective is the class" you have to finish it with "how mechanically effective is the class at ____________" and fill in the blank. That will make your answer vary wildly
The dual identity stuff is TERRRIBLE unless you're set in the same city. It consumes pretty much all of your class abilities just to keep it working. It's consuming 8th level resources to give level 1 bonuses.
Its kind of like duct tape. It is actually pretty bad at taping ducts (since it doesn't hold up to moisture well) , but it does other things well. People expect to tape ducts with it though.
If you were in a hells rebels situation i suppose anyone would want to dip vigilante. Other than that your most effective/ non gimping mechanics involves not making what people see as a vigilantee.
Yes, but they backed that up with mechanics. You need charisma to cast spells on those classes. You get more spells the more charisma you have on those classes. The DC to resist your spells is based on charisma.
You can't just say "I want you to have X" and then be completely mismatched with the mechanics or people will not have x.
This was a problem for the chained rogue and dexterity.
In 3.x it was a problem for wizards elves and dwarves. Elves were touted as being great wizards and dwarves distrustful of magic but the actual mechanics made dwarves the best wizards around and elves pretty bad at it so... Goodbye Leafy Wizard Hello Beardy McSpellbook.
The vigilantees signature ability is the dual identity bit.
The vigilantee CLASS works fine... IF you ignore the signature ability and use it to make a skilled versatile fighter or a rogue with actual talents.
Since that kind of makes a vigilante not a vigilante people think it's busted.
The secret id thing should have scaled up the way most of its other abilities do. As it is you need to keep pouring abilities into it to get it to work, which doesn't leave you much of an adventurer or crime fighter.
You still keep those.
There are faction vanities but you can't buy new lantern lodge, shadow lodge, or scarzini ones (unless there's a boon out there for it?)
Old faction vanities still work for their rebranded faction. Dark Archive can still buy cheliax vanities for example. Qadirians are now exchange.
oh and welcome back!
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