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Silas Vekker

Baroth's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 101 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Ross Byers wrote:

It might be a waste of space to you, who have been playing for a long time and have all those references.

It is not a waste of space for a newer player or GM who does not have those experiences.

So the book will go into the details of the Lolth-worshipping society of the not-born-as-elves race of drows?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Apart from the new rules, it seems many of these 'ecologies' have been printed before in either the Campaign Setting line or in the Adventure Path line (at least 75%). Is there sustantial new material concerning the background information of these monsters?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

By chance I stumbled upon your kickstarter and I have to admit it looks really promising even though it is really expensive to get all three books. Since I live in Switzerland, orderning the books together seems a good idea as it will reduce the shipping costs but that would still cost 200$. You mentioned in another thread that there might be post-KS pledge options. How is this coming along? I recently have backed a project that used BackerKit which seems to be a good possibility to allow post-KS pledges.

Concerning your material, I checked your webpage and for your offerings and saw that you have quite a few types of monsters covered. Are you going to expand the mythic material to other races of outsiders, for example kytons or daemons?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I have just checked this out and whilst the sheet seem really nice, there is one big omission. Archetypes are not supported as far as I can see, at least I did not see them for monks or fighters. Without support for archetypes, the sheets seem only marginally helpful.

Nevertheless, thanks for the good work.


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Lord Snow wrote:
SLAYER: seeing as how they can choose to spend slayer talents to get extra feats, I don't see how slayers are anything except an improved version of fighters. Since that negates fighters altogether, I don't like this class unless the "slayer talent as combat feat" option is removed.

How is the Slayer able to spend talents for feats? As far as I can see, one can only take each talent once including the one that enables the slayer to take a combat feat, the one that gives Weapon Focues to the Slayer and the one that that enables the slayer to take any feat.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

This looks really nice. Great work.

I have seen that there are no CR 20+ devils and daemons in there. Are you going to publish some of these in the near future?


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Well, my part of this book focuses on the 20 major deities (and some other material we haven't announced yet). I don't what the book is doing with the not-a-true-deity-but-can-grant-spells creatures, but given that each category of them has its own 64-page book for the Pathfinder RPG, I doubt this book will have extensive writeups for such beings (because space limitations for the book means we can't set aside 10 pages for each of those categories, for example).

Thanks for your answers.

In this case, I was talking about whether or not there will be writeups like the core beliefs series on very powerful outsiders in the book. It is a shame that there is not enough space for that, but it is understandable nonetheless. As these will be printed in the APs I am not too saddened about it. ;-)
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
If you're talking specifically about mentioning those creatures in the Relations section of the gods writeups, I think we can make sure to mention any relationships that are significant to the deity (frex, Urgathoa's writeup mentions daemons because her realm is in Abaddon, and I think Sarenrae's mentions the other empyreal lords because she used to be an angel).

That you are going to mention all important relations is fantastic as it does really help to see how the deity acts and thus how it thinks.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
As the updates of those entries aren't finished yet, I'll talk to Wes (who's in charge of this project) and see what he thinks of that idea. :)

Thanks, this is great to hear. Granted it might just be me but I do like neatly structured texts for the sake of clarification. Perhaps it is just a professional preference.

Generally, would it be possible to get more background history on the deities? Some of the articles seem to lack this more than others. For example, your article on Torag (AP 62) does not explain his history, but perhaps that is intended.


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Yep, that's what I thought you were talking about. See, when we first started these god articles, there was no Core Rulebook, nor was there a campaign setting book for Golarion, so the articles were the only place to get that info. I can't remember why we did it in paragraph form like that instead of a little sidebar, but that's how we did it for the first one, and we used that same structure for the later articles. For this book, we've already talked about pulling that info into a sidebar for each entry (plus I'm sure we'll have a full-page table listing all of that info for at least the major gods), so it won't be in that running text format any more. :)

As for your comment about the Relations With Other Religions section, that's exactly the sort of thing I meant by my comment about how other deities (and aspects of the setting) hadn't been detailed yet. But they've now been detailed, so... :)

Thanks for your answer. I have hoped that you have realised this, but as it was never changed I thought I mention it.

Concerning the relations part, am I correct to assume that this does not imply that the book will include write-ups about beings of god-like power, i.e. Horsemen, Empyreal lords, etc?

Whilst you did not say that you want further suggestions, I will still write them down. I hope you do not mind.

Would it be possible to have a better distinction between the general topics in the articles? It would be nice to have three general sections about a given deity: one about the deity itself, one about its church/religion, and one about general and/or common information concerning the deity. For example in the article on Pharasma, the part on the deity itself is really lacking (if I remember correctly) and thus, unless this was intended, it could be avoided.


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Sean K Reynolds wrote:

We're making sure that each of the main deity writeups has all of the same structural elements (a priest's role, dogma, relations with other religions). The formatting of my articles shifted a bit over the past 5 years, partly because of the 3.5 --> PF rules change, partly because the needs of the individual APs, and partly because of the nature of the deities (and how later deities hadn't been detailed yet, so the earlier ones don't have as many cross-references), and we're going to standardize them so any writeup that missed one of those major topics will now address it.

I think I know what "chart" material you're referring to, but if you can give me an example of what you mean, that would be helpful.

Thanks for your reply (and James' as well). I have hoped you would say something like that.

As for the example, generally speaking, your articles begin with a few really nice to read paragraphs on the background and history of the deity in question and continues with a description of the deity's realm. However, this is followed by a paragraph that is reciting information. For example, in the case of Irori, this paragraph reads as follows:
"Irori is lawful neutral and his portfolio is history, knowledge, and self-perfection. His weapon is the open hand, representing unarmed combat as well as the unlimited potential of mortal life guided by serene intelligence. His holy symbol is an open blue palm overlaid upon a circle, though in some lands his name-rebus (see page 70) is used more often than the hand. His domains are Healing, Knowledge, Law, Rune, and Strength. (Adventure Path 50, Page 71)"
This really interrupts the flow of the text, is boring to read, and most of the time repeats stuff one does already know. Such information is normally given in a table, for example the header tables to each Empyreal lord in the Chronicles of the Righteous, and I think such tables would work much better, especially if they are given at the start of the article.

If I may suggest something else, it seems a wasted opportunity to limit the section "Relations with Other Religions" to just religions, i.e. deities. For example, this part in the article on Pharasma (Adventure Path 42, Page 69) creates the impression that she has no true enemies. This might be true for deities, but her real enemies are the Daemons and Qlippoths and even though they are not deities, they are very significant nonetheless.

If you want to hear more suggestions or in-depth criticism to specific articles, I will be happy to oblige as I really enjoy these articles.


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James Jacobs wrote:
In fact, those writeups are going to form the backbone of the book. They'll mostly all be expanded upon as well.

Are you going to restructure these articles or will it be the same texts with additions? It seems necessary because the old texts include very clunky paragraphs that give information that should be given in a chart. Concerning additions, are you going to expand on the 'relations with other religions' parts?


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Let me start with pointing out a few things about the Pathfinder RPG and Golarion.
Firstly, the Pathfinder RPG does not give any information about the exact power level of the planar lords and old ones, the powers of gods, how to attain divinity, and how these things interact.
Secondly, most of what is known about these things is only true for Golarion and can be found in the various setting books, i.e. BotDs, TGB, etc. It might be different in a different setting.
Thirdly, the gods of Golarion do not have stats and probably will never have stats. While there has been some discussion about that at the time when the mythic rules were announced, it is, as far as I know, still true that the people at Paizo do not intend to stat up gods.
Fourthly, Asmodeus is, according to Golarion-lore and to the bestiary as well, a god and not an archdevil.
Fifthly, the old ones are approximately on par with archdevils, demon lords, etc. as James mentioned that he will stat up a few of them when the mythic rules are released.

Therefore, as there are no stats and no indication about the power relation of the gods, it is not sensible to try to compare the powers of the gods with each other and with other beings and thus, your scenarios are not sensible as a god cannot be compared to other beings including other gods. However, as a general guideline, most outsider races have minor lords, i.e. harbingers, nascent demon lords, infernal dukes, etc., and 'major lords', i.e. horsemen, demon lords, archdevils, etc. The minor lords are intended to the be end game for a campaign going up to level 20. The major lords are mythic content and the gods are out of stat range.

If I were to guess I would say that while a god could kill another god or a major lord, it would not be easy. Furthermore, it is probably possible to kill a god, but one needs special conditions to do so. Thus, killing a planar ruler would deplete some of the resources of the god and leave him open to be killed by someone who is able to establish the special conditions needed to kill him. Therefore, you get some kind of stalemate where they do not dare to engage each other personally because the risks would simply be too high.

By the way, I guess that the Chronicle of the Righteous (PFRPG) will shed some light on the goodly lords.


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A player in my group wants to play an Aasimar and thus, I had to read the Companion in greater detail. I really like the book. However, I have to give a fair warning to GMs about the "variant aasimar abilities" table (pages 18 - 19). The table is not really fair in any way. In theory, it could happen that a character gains two additional +2 ability modifiers in place of his daylight ability (sp) and even one additional ability modifier is much stronger than this. I hope that similar tables in future companions are more balanced than this one.


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Great to see this. I really like pawns and as I currently use Daemons quite a lot, it is nice to have them as pawns as well. Are there any plans to create pawns of the new monsters found in the Campaign Setting line (especially the BotD ones)?

Concerning the bigger than huge monsters, I would be already happy if you produce appropriate bases for these monsters. I can still use the pawn of a smaller creature or create one myself, but the bases are great for visualization purposes.


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Dave Gross wrote:
I can tell you that Radovan, the count, and another established character are the lead characters. I can tell you that three other Pathfinder Tales characters make appearances (with their authors' approval), two of them substantial roles. I can tell you it's strongly connected to the Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path--so much so that I'm hoping GMs will want their players to read it before running the AP.

Does this mean that we will see Gad and his fellows in the book? I assume so as he is already up there. In any case, it would be nice to see how Gad interacts with the two. :-)


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AlgaeNymph wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
That's because Lorthact is only CR 25.
Just how many mythic tiers does Sorshen have? Just what is her CR? You said in an earlier post she was CR 24-25, but I guess that changed.

Speaking of CR, if she is that strong, how strong is the mighty Xanderghul?


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If you have too few players, it might be a good idea to have one. Now the question is when do you have too few players? That depends entirely on the GM and the players. Some groups just prefer to have four or five characters in game because they feel that they cannot cover certain areas with only three or two characters. In any case, whenever I played a GMPC, I usually played a character who focused on re-active/passive roles in combat (buffing or tanking) and who was not the face of the party but still had a good personality to encourage role-playing with and among the other players. Basically, helping the group in the areas they are not able to cover without taking away the spotlight in and out of combat but still interacting with the characters to create the illusion of there being actually four or five characters.


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Erik Mona wrote:

Not presently.

I think it's fair to assume that some of the items generated as part of Pathfinder Online and this Kickstarter in particular may be available for purchase down the road (this is definitely true of the Emerald Spire, for example, though Kickstarter supporters will receive a unique limited-edition Wayne Reynolds cover), but there is currently no mechanism for this, no immediate plans for it, and no guarantees on things like price.

I do guarantee you, 100%, that picking up the Emerald Spire and the associated dungeon Flip-Mats as part of the Pathfinder Online Kickstarter will be much, much, much cheaper than buying them later as part of their eventual retail release.

Thanks for the answer. That is too bad. I was hoping there was a way to get the soundtrack in a package with the books as currently the only way to get the soundtrack is to commit a higher pledge tier.

As I said before, buying the books through pledging is not a problem and seems a good deal, I just wanted to buy the soundtrack as well without having to buy the game. Thus, I hope that it will be release separately and I can buy it like that.


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Valkenr wrote:
Baroth wrote:
Is there a way to get the soundtrack with the books if one does not want the game? Basically, I want just the material I can use for Pen and Paper RPG, except the miniatures, without the MMO things. I will never play an MMO and I am not interested in giving money to an MMO.
Somebody did a cost analysis in another thread, the non-game rewards would cost more to buy individually than to make the pledge. You can either look at it as the game being free, or all of the PnP stuff being free, or everything is %50 off. give/sell the game to some friend or a random stranger.

Thanks for the answer, but this is not what I was asking for. I was just asking for a way to get the soundtrack without paying money of the MMO. Making a 5$ pledge and adding 100$ will get me just the books. Now, is there way to add a bit of money to the pledge to get me the soundtrack as well?


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Is there a way to get the soundtrack with the books if one does not want the game? Basically, I want just the material I can use for Pen and Paper RPG, except the miniatures, without the MMO things. I will never play an MMO and I am not interested in giving money to an MMO.


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WormysQueue wrote:

no it's still "Das Schwarze Auge" (DSA, The Dark Eye in english). Published in 1984, it wasn't much more than a D&D clone first, but in the meantime it has developed it's own setting which may be even more detailed than the Forgotten Realms.

The game is a bit more "realistic" than D&D, more medieval and even high-level PCs aren't supposed to be god-like characters who can beat the hell out of demon lords. It also shares the Paizo approach to support the system and the setting mainly through adventures.

And interestingly enough, the publisher (Ulisses Spiele) is the same who publishes the german localisation of the Pathfinder RPG. Which ironically means that, while there is a german version of the Pathfinder Beginner Box, there is still nothing comparable for DSA.

Hey there, you play that as well or do you just know it?

Have you seen the latest effort by Ulisses Spiele with their survey? They will probably create a new edition as far as I can see. I hope they actually learn from their business partner Paizo because currently their quality control and their business practices are awful.

However, Paizo could learn from them as well and create big hardcover setting books about Golarion. I still dream of 300 pages just about one region or one plane.... :-)


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James Jacobs wrote:
Baroth wrote:

1. Are there other sources about Riddleport besides the one I have checked?

2. Are there any hidden plotters in Riddleport like Lorthact and Ileosa (i.e. Sorshen) in Korvosa?

1) That's pretty much it for Riddleport for now that's in print. There's some cyphermage stuff here and tehre in other books, and there's a few Pathfinder Society scenarios set there but I'm not sure if those scenarios are out yet or still in development/design.

2) Yes.

Thanks for your answers.

May I follow up with a question to your answer to my second question? If so, could you be more specific as who these hidden plotters are and what their motives and goals are?


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As you have said that you could go on forever about Varisia which includes Riddleport, I will ask you:

I have checked the few sources available about Riddleport (Pathfinder 13 & 14, Player's Guide to Second Darkness, Varisia Birthplace of Legends, the Inner Sea World Guide, the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting, and the Journal of Shattered Star). However, I am still not entirely satisfied with my knowledge of Riddleport as most of these sources repeat the same data.

1. Are there other sources about Riddleport besides the one I have checked?
2. Are there any hidden plotters in Riddleport like Lorthact and Ileosa (i.e. Sorshen) in Korvosa?


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Todd Stewart wrote:

Patrick,

They gave you BotD3 as a first assignment as a developer? Is that like freshman hazing? :D

Todd 'How many obscure biology terms, scientific slang, and archaic english can I fit into this statblock let alone the ecology entry' Stewart

Because I am curious, I have to ask: How much creative freedom did you actually have to create BotD 3? Were you sort of filling in the blanks by a huge outline of the Jameses or the development team or creating something completely from scratch?

Other than that, it is a nice blog entry as usual. Have you guys planned something as a replacement for these after the anniversary is over?


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Kajehase wrote:
There's not much I can think of, but the fiction in the Shattered Star Adventure Path is set in Riddleport.

Thanks for your answer. Perhaps it will help me to flesh out the feel of the city. Thanks in any case.

I normally wait with reading the journals until all books of an AP have been released, but I guess this will be the exception to the rule.


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Instead of starting a new thread, I will ask here.
I am currently running a campaign that takes place in Varisia and now heads towards Riddleport. I have checked the few sources about Riddleport (Pathfinder 13 & 14, Player's Guide to Second Darkness, Varisia Birthplace of Legends, the Inner Sea World Guide, and the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting). However, I am still not entirely satisfied with my knowledge of Riddleport as most of these sources repeat the same data. Does anyone know of additional sources about Riddleport?


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DeathQuaker wrote:

Baroth, what IS in the book is anything that was in the Pathfinder RPG line, and a lot of stuff from the Adventurer's Armory.

Otherwise, I think items were cherrypicked from various campaign setting books and APs, or are brand new.

It's impossible to list what's NOT in the book unless one has an eidetic memory and a copy of every book Paizo has ever published. That person is not me.

If there's a specific item you are hoping is in there, it would be better to ask for it and have people look it up.

Xaaon of Korvosa wrote:

Or check on d20PFSRD for equipment, if you see it in there, and it has a PAIZO tag, and it's not in the book, there you go.

No Wand Rifle...sucks. In a game that has firearms and added firearms, that should have made it in. It's one of my favorite items.

Thanks for the answers. I was not looking for a specific item. I had the, apparently false, impression that UE contains almost all items and thus, a list of the things that one has to search for somewhere else would be rather short. It would have made browsing the available items easier for my players. :-)


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Is there a list of the equipment that is not included in this book? I really like the book, but almost every item is a bit unhelpful. :-)


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What I am currently wondering about is whether or not the Mythic levels will grant different boni depending on the level of the character. For example, is the first level of Mythic archmage the same for a level 4 wizard and a level 20 wizard? The powers will have differ or the powers are extremely scalable or a level 20 character taking his first Mythic level might be a bit underwhelmed. The reason for my interest in this is that I am currently running a campaign that I would love to extend with Mythic level gameplay, but the characters will be level 20 before I could use the Mythic levels.


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In the case of Time Stop, it entirely depends on what the ring modifies, i.e. what does "that spell remains in effect for 24 hours" mean, and how Time Stop works exactly, i.e. how long its duration is. It is probably safe to say that the "remains in effect"-clause means effect produced by the spell cast will not end after the time given by the spell, but after 24 hours. This need not mean that it only changes the 'Duration'-entry of the spell to 24 hours, because there are spells in the core rules with a 'Duration'-entry saying instantaneous but the spell text explains that it "remains in effect for x days". Given these spells do not have the appropriate range to be used with the ring, but still, the examples are there.
Therefore, the problem seems to be rather the second question, namely what variable of Time Stop defines the time it is in effect and what it effect is.

Effect:
Variant 1: Gain 1d4 + 1 rounds immediately
Variant 2: Gain 1d4 + 1 rounds for this action
Variant 3: Gain 1d4 + 1 rounds for each action

Time the spell remains in effect:
Variant 4: Instantaneous
Variant 5: 1 standard action
Variant 6: The spell's effect defines the duration

Given that the time the spell remains in effect can also be defined by its effects as given in variant 6, we have 5 different variants how the ring may interact with Time Stop.
Variant 4 seems the most realistic one as the "time the spell remains in effect" probably refers to normal time and in normal time, the spell takes up just the instant after the caster has finished casting the spell (during this instant the effect of the spell grants the caster 1d4 + 1 rounds of time). Thus, the combination with the ring would not be very advantageous for the caster as it would defeat the purpose of the spell.
The other variant that could probably work is variant 6 in combination with variant 1. This would result in the caster gaining 24 hours of time after having cast the spell as the duration of the spell is the "time the spell remains in effect" which is the effect of the spell in this case and so the ring modifies the effect of the spell indirectly and to the advantage of the caster.
I cannot see how the spell could actually imply something akin to variant 2, 3 or 5 but apparently some think it does.

I would probably decree that variant 4 is correct in my groups. I think Time Stop is just badly formulated. The duration should say "Instantaneous" and the effect should be "Gain 1d4 + 1 rounds of apparent time in which only you can act". Thus, one could not apply the Extend metamagic feat to it, but still the Empower metamagic feat.


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Thanks a lot. The quality of your customer service still manages to amaze me. It is really great. :-)

Best wishes,
Sebastian


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Hi there,

as the order in question has shipped, you may release the "Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition". Thus, it should be shipped with all the other hardcover stuff in August (and perhaps with the new KQ).

Thanks again,
Seb


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I would prefer fewer books as well but only if the remaining ones get bigger. Most of the time, when I read a book in the Campaign Setting line, I feel like there is a lot of stuff that is not in there that I would really like to see.


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Will do. That is the perfect solution for me.

Spoiler:
Credit to whom credit is due.

Thanks again,
Seb


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Thanks for the quick reply and for the solution for my problem. I can already tell you that you can unsuspend it as soon as the July shipment is shipped. Shall I just create a post in this thread at that time?

Sorry for the work that it created, I am surprised by the non-triviality of my request. :-)

Again, thanks for the great customer service (and for one of the best part of a blog entry I have read here on Paizo).

Best regards,
Sebastian


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Hi there (I guess again: Cosmo?),

I have just seen that the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition will be shipped with my July shipment. Furthermore, I have realized that you will have to use the USPS Priority Mail for my August shipment. As I do not really need the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition right now, would it be possible to send it with the August shipment? This should probably lower the shipping cost in July quite a bit while not really raising it by a big margin in August.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Best regards,
Sebastian

PS: If need be, you can ship the Folio with the August shipment as well as this is a product I really do not need.


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The discrepancy between stats and description is probably due to the fact that the Rust ability of the rust monster in 3.5 had an additional paragraph stating that any metal weapon that deals damage to the rust monster immediately corrodes. Naturally, it made the rust monster extremely unsatisfying to fight against. Thus, the ability was changed, but one probably forgot to further adjust the description.


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This is not possible. A level 3 sorcerer is not able to cast level 3 spells and neither the high Charisma score nor the feat enable a character taking levels in a spell casting class to cast spells of a higher level than this class allows. A best your player could argue that it is not specified which level the spell must have and thus he could gain spells that are higher than the level of spells the character is able to cast, but he could still not cast them.


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I am currently using the original Samsung Galaxy i7500 but will probably switch to Sony Xperia P as soon as ICS is released. Furthermore, I will probably buy an Android tablet or color e-ink e-book-reader in the near future. I am actually not so sure about this because I always wanted to buy a color e-ink e-book reader, but apparently Paizo's pdfs could be problematic on something like that. Anyway, I am happy if you produce apps for Android OS as the other systems are a no-go.

An app that allows for easy initiative and HP management in combat would be nice. Naturally, a complete spell book app would be nice as well, but as with most kinds of glossary apps, one should probably just use the PRD. However, an easy searchable and manageable PRD app would be very nice as it currently does not have a very good search function.


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It comes down to whether or not Magical Knack constantly checks if your caster level exceeds your hit dice. If it does, it does not matter how you stack the bonuses as Magical Knack will cease to be effective as soon as you exceed it. If it does not constantly check, the order in which the bonuses were added matters. The former is true because Magical Knack is part of the reason why your caster level exceeds your hit dice and thus its limiting phrase applies. According to James, it does constantly check and therefore, stops working if your caster level exceeds your hit dice.


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The point is that Magical Knack is at any time checking the caster level. Even if you would add the bonus from Magical Knack first it would stop giving you a bonus as soon as you add the bonus of the stone because now your caster level is above your current Hit Dice. As the bonus of the trait is part of the reason why your caster level is above your hit dice, it may not give you any bonus to your caster level and stops doing so.


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As has been said before, the planar cosmology is pretty well defined. Check out the Great Beyond for example. It basically highlights the cosmology of Golarion in greater detail.

The Daemons of Golarion are not Yugoloths. They fit the same slot as the Yugoloths in terms of NE Outsiders, but they are based on a different concept. I really like the Yugoloths, but the way Paizo set up the Daemons in Golarion, I felt at home immediately. Check out the Book of the Damned III, it contains great material on them. However, if you prefer the old Yugoloths, you can just use the old material with a few general changes. If you have any questions about them, give it a go. I will try to make them sound 'nice'. :-)

Keep in mind that you cannot expect to find as much material on the cosmology and the Daemons as there is in older D&D editions as they had much more space to do so. However, as you can see on the message boards, if you have any questions, you will get answers (as I just did this morning by Todd and James).

Could you explain the last point in greater detail? I honestly do not understand it.


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Todd Stewart wrote:

As requested:

Aesdurath the Puppet King
Commander: Charon
Realm: The 9 Towers
Unholy Symbol: A silhouette of two overlapping skulls
Areas of concern: Death by Magical Backlash
Domains: Evil, Undeath, Magic
Favored Weapon: Dagger

Aesdurath was born from the bizarre conjunction of a lich whose soul fused with its erodaemon consort upon his corporeal destruction. Now appearing as a gaunt, genderless erodaemon spontaneously manifesting bleeding bite marks upon its body, its conjoined souls feed upon one another. Aesdurath isn’t a true daemon, at least as far as most of the daemonic nobility is concerned. Yet Charon accepts Aesdurath’s loyalty and the Four take no official stance, leaving many to suspect they use him as a goading tool to throw against their other vassals.

Thanks for this. I really like the fusing of lich/erodaemon part. After reading it, it seems so obvious that one could do this with a Harbinger of magical catastrophes.


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Todd Stewart wrote:

When I get home, sure. It's a little under a paragraph long, and just to repeat James and myself again, it's not canon unless it's in print, and I don't want to make a habit of this since stuff has a tendency to be recycled/expanded/altered later on if it's not used in an earlier project. :)

Does there need to be one for reasons other than the symmetry assumptions of the Balor/Pit Fiend/Ultroloth dynamic from 1e/2e/3e? The daemons don't operate (at all) by the same social hierarchy as the 2e/3e yugoloths did, and their outlook is rather distinctly different, plus they don't have any similar Blood War'esque mercenary roll as a race that the 'loths did. There doesn't IMO really need to be that sort of symmetry when the daemons have a much more elaborate caste of Harbingers as a caste below the Four, versus nothing really comparable among the 1e/2e/3e yugoloths who had the ultroloths and really only a sparse handful of unique members

Thanks for your answer. I really appreciate you two answering these questions. I really just like well-written lore.

Concerning your material, I will use it as an inspiration for my creation unless you happen to do with Aesdurath what I wanted to do with him.

Concerning the intelligence of Daemons, it would be only natural to have a caste of very intelligent beings on top of or near the top of the 'hierarchy'. As it could be argued that at least a certain intelligence is needed to be on top of a 'hierarchy' like the ones of the Daemons. Because even a balor, arguably the toughest and strongest demon, is quite intelligent and their 'society' is structured around pure power. However, as I understand you, the Harbingers are exactly this caste. They are what the Pit Fiend, the Balor, the Solar, etc. are for their respective 'society'. It is a change I do like.
However, speaking in game rules, it seems that to use this caste of the Daemons, one needs to stat it up all by oneself, while using the caste for other outsiders gives you a pretty solid monster to start off with. It is a disadvantage, but I am really liking the prospect of creating my own Harbinger. Is there any advice you can give concerning creating such a beast? Because creating monsters is the only thing I really rarely do, let alone CR 23/24 guys. I guess this question would be rather for James "Mr. Demonlord" Jacobs.

Apparently, RPG developers are creatures of the night. I sometimes wish I could work until late into the night. But my part-time job that finances my philosophy studies, forces me get up at 5.30 AM on at least two days a week.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Baroth wrote:
I have to ask: Why are you still awake? Because here in Berne, it is 9 o'clock in the morning and I doubt you live by our time zone. :-)

It was 11:00 pm when I made that post... it's about 12:40 am right now.

As for why I'm awake... I normally don't go to sleep till 1 or 2 AM.

I always forget that you guys are PST and not EST.


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Thanks for your answer. Thus, I am awaiting the ramblings of Todd. I should be working for University anyway. If he talks (and believe me he will talk), I will use his design as an inspiration for my creation unless he nails the design perfectly.

I know that the Daemons are not Yugoloths as I know most things from the older editions on Daemons and Yugoloths, but they fit the same NE Outsider slot. I am just drawn to the evil for the sake of evil type of enemies which is, I admit, not as true for Daemons as for Yugoloths as the Daemons have a much clearer goal. However, said goal is on a different level that the ones of Demons and Devils. I somehow feel that after a while one 'gets' Demons and Devils as one is able understand them. Daemons are completely different in that respect. One has a really hard time to understand them the more one knows about them. Still, I was kind of surprised that there is not at least one high level Daemon that is capable to be a match for a Balor or a Pit Fiend in terms of intelligence.

You are welcome. I praise good quality work where I see it. I know the problems that come with larger publications as the costs for Paizo and for their customers would go up and especially the latter could prove to be a deal breaker. Still, I crave for more, perhaps make the Setting books each the size of the Inner Sea World Guide? I would really like that.

I have to ask: Why are you still awake? Because here in Berne, it is 9 o'clock in the morning and I doubt you live by our time zone. :-)


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Todd Stewart wrote:

Aesdurath was one of several that got cut for space. I could tell you what details I had in mind for him beyond the listing in the back of the book, but largely I've held off on releasing that sort of detail precisely because A) it might appear in a later book and B) if it's detailed by someone else who has other ideas to explore versus the original unpublished ones, I'd prefer not to have conflicting information out there. What's in print is what's canon after all, not whatever else might be drifting around on my desktop. :)

Of course, James et al are always free to let me blab about the basics of Aesdurath if they wanted. ;)

Thanks for your answer. Now, I am curious. Thus, I have to ask: James, is Todd allowed to give me the details on Aesdurath? Pretty please, with sugar on top.

Another question for the Daemon specialist(s): Do the Daemons actually have high-level schemers like the Ultroloths? It seems to me that basically most Daemons are rather stupid compared to other denizens of the Outer Planes, except for the Venedaemon.

While you guys are here, let me thank you for the great work you deliver. I absolutely love the BotDs and the Great Beyond (and most of the other books as well). The only nitpick I have is that they are too small.


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James Jacobs wrote:

The CR for all three categories—infernal duke (for devils), nascent demon lords (for demons), and harbingers (for daemons) should run from 21 to 25. If you have the Inner Sea World Guide, Treerazer is statted up in there and you can use his stats as a guide for what the upper limit of power a fiend of this level could represent.

It's the archdevils, demon lords, and horsemen themselves who are at the upper end of whatever a Mythic Level scale would represent.

Infernal dukes, nascent demon lords, and harbingers were invented SPECIFICALLY so that a campaign that ends with a party of 20th level PCs could have powerful unique fiends to fight.

Thanks for this answer. Naturally, I do have the Inner Sea World Guide and will check him out in greater detail. Not that I did not already do this as I am keen on anything from the Outer Planes. My players will certainly not be happy about this.

Just to satisfy my curiosity: Was it indicated somewhere in the books that these categories were designed for being in this CR range?


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James Jacobs wrote:
A large number of the harbingers were invented in house during the book's development and editing, actually—and as such, for now, those who aren't mentioned more in the text are simply entries on the table. We may eventually detail some or all of those harbingers out further in the future... but for now, they're mostly blank slates for GMs to develop however they wish.

Thanks for your answer. I will get to work then.

Are we correct to assume that the CRs of the Harbingers are at the upper end of the mythic scale? Just to get an idea of the power structure of the great beyond.


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Thanks for your answers so far.

Concerning the power level, I thought as much. I just do not want to contradict the inherent power structure of the Great Beyond. Because we will use the mythic rules once they are released, it would be rather silly if I stat up a Harbinger as something around CR 23/24 and we find out that one of the highest mythic levels would be more fitting. Thus, I am contemplating if I should use the Harbinger directly or just one of his minions. The minions would not be a problem because it could be a lich, as they are in his area of concern, or simply a high level daemon with class levels.

Concerning the Harbinger, I know that I can create my own background, I was just wondering if there is more to these Harbingers than just a line at the back of BotD III.

Concerning my plot, I actually knew the plot before I knew who plotted it and I just knew that I wanted to use Daemons because I so like their motivations. Well, I did like the ones of the Yugoloths, but came around to like the ones of the Daemons as well. I searched for a liege in the background that I could go back to if mythic rules ever came up and naturally first checked the Horsemen and their Harbinger. As the plot involves a magical catastrophe, Aesdurath (found on the back cover of BotD III) fits perfectly. The plot basically involves the manipulation of 4 rather powerful elementalists to an all-out confrontation where he plans to redirect the magical energies to result in a magical catastrophe of immense proportions. The character at first just stumbled into it, but are linked through various points in their lives to one of the major players in the plot. They first encountered two of the elementalists in a battle on a small island which resulted in them being shipwrecked in Varisia. Currently, they are not sure what to do as they have killed minions of a black dragon in a nearby swamp and thus, have accidentally angered him, but do not really want to deal with him. The dragon naturally deals with the Daemon, hoping to have a bigger realm for himself after the catastrophe.


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I am currently running a Pathfinder campaign that is focused on a scheme of a Harbinger, Aesdurath, in Varisia. Unfortunately, there is very little information about the Harbinger. Does anyone, for example Todd, know more about them or did you only give little information about them on purpose? For example, I would like to stay close to the setting inherent rules and thus, I am wondering if Aesdurath is a free Harbinger or if he is directed by one of the Horsemen. If the latter is the case, which one would do so. Furthermore, how strong should an average Harbingers be? Unless I missed something, there is little known about the power structure of the Great Beyond, in part, of course, due to the missing mythic rules.

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