Banecrow's page

Yes you can enchant your fists...in a way.

You just have to pay 7500 gold and have someone to cast greater magic fang and Permanency on you.

@Banecrow: If you look he references the Vulpine Pounce Feat.

Dam missed that line lol.

Ok if he charges he only gets 1 attack at full BAB. Charging allows you to only make one standard attack not a full round attack.

Now on the second round when you are able to make a full attack you would get all 5 from flurry of blows AND your bite attack.

There are feats out there that can change this, things like pounce and such but without those feats it is only 1 attack after a charge.

You could always play a Samsaran and take the alternate racial ability Mystic Past Life. It allows you to add spells to your spell list.

The DC 20 to simply detect their presence is counter to the illusion school description. You're telling someone else's mind: hey, I'm not here. So, they don't see you. They pay no mind to you to even look unless you do something stupid like bump into a piece of furniture or something. There is already a boon given for detecting moving invisible creatures which is half the bonus to stealth.

Actually you are quite wrong there. Invisiblity is a glamor, it changes YOU and does not effect someone elses mind.

Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

With invisibility the subject is the person targeted by the spell, thus the one invisibile.

Blasphemy. You can't play D&D without a cleric. Or a rogue.

Heh done it before without a cleric, and our rogue was switching every level between rogue and bard.

I really wish I had noticed that race before starting play getting all those summoner spells early would of been an untold boon to my build (haste at 2, greater invisibility at 3, Greater Planar Binding at 6, Banishment at 5 etc). Mind you that can't really be balanced.

Summoner is arcane and druid is divine, you have to choose from a list that is the same type of casting as you. I.E. Divine to divine or arcane to arcane. So a Samsaran druid could not take spells from the summoner list.

Wizards can turn people into spoons

OMG that one simple sentence just made my day! You have someone going on about how awesome/broken a build idea is and you just shut it down with those 6 simple words.

EDIT: blood money "keys" the created material component to a "spell that you currently have prepared". Oh, this is even better - you can nuke yourself into nappy land. When you wake up, you have the costly M component for whatever it is you are going to cast. Weeee!

Still, dragon disciples are pooched on combining this with wish.

Actually no, you must use the component in the same round that blood money is cast. That is why casting blood money is a swift action. If you do not use it the component goes away.

I always liked the blood money + fabricate combo. Hello Mithril chainmail, adamantine sword etc.

The material component for the fabricate spell is the material needed to make the item. Thus blood money allows you to make mithril, adamantine etc items without having anything.

Natch wrote:

I'm not saying this is 100% RAW, but the way I always saw it, the DC 20 Perception was to notice something that was invisible, but not trying to hide. Say a pixie got into the room and was just buzzing around invisibly, it'd be a DC 20 to notice it. If the pixie then tried to use stealth, the DC to notice it becomes 20 plus the stealth roll.

Essentially, the DC 20 "notice active invisible creature" would be an opposed check against a Stealth roll of 0 (because the creature made no attempt to hide). Any actual effort at stealth increases the DC to notice it. Even on a nat 1, trying to hide can't be less effective than not hiding, unless you've got negative Dexterity mods and no ranks, in which case you are objectively a clumsy oaf.

That is incorrect.

Even in 3.5 they had an article on this.

The DC to "notice" a creature, and the DC to "locate" a creature are not the same. The flat DC 20 is just to nice someone within 30 feet. The actual stealth modifier is to pinpoint the square the creature is in.

If you wish to pinpoint the square of the invisible creature the DC is 40(assuming they are not stealthing. That is because of the +20 modifier for pinpointing the creature. Remember, then you make a perception check to locate an invisible creature it is to find the square, not to notice them. That is why noticing them is only a flat 20, but to find the square they are in is much more difficult.

It is not always 40 there are modifiers to that DC depending on the situation.

In combat or speaking –20
Moving at half speed –5
Moving at full speed –10
Running or charging –20
Not moving +20
Using Stealth Stealth check +20
Some distance away +1 per 10 feet
Behind an obstacle (door) +5
Behind an obstacle (stone wall) +15

The base DC is 20, to notice if they are within 30'. If you try to pinpoint it then it is still base 20 but you add +20 for invisibility then you add any modifiers.

Example Invisible creature is 20 feet from you and is moving at 1/2 speed and makes a stealth check of 15 the DC to notice them would be 20 (base) + 20(invisible) + 15 (Stealth) +2(distance) -5(movement) = DC52

Banecrow, please explain to me what an "active invisible creature" means. Because if I'm trying to hide from you, even while invisible, I'm going to be as "inactive" as I can possibly be.

It does not say you can notice the presence of "an invisible creature in the room". It says an "active invisible creature within 30 feet."

Thus the DC 20 does not necessarily apply. If I am deliberately trying to hide from you, then you need to make a perception check against my stealth.

Look at the chart in the invisibility section I linked in my above post.

In the case of they are TRYING to hide from you then it is DC 20 + your stealth check. It lays it all out for you there.

By active I take it to mean it is not taking extra actions to hide its presence such as using stealth etc.

You are right about the 30' but then most rooms are not much bigger than 30'.

This is the second time someone has asserted that detecting an invisible person is a straight DC 20 perception check. According to BOTH the "invisibility" spell and the "perception" skill description, invisibility is not a straight DC 20, it is a PLUS TWENTY to the perception check DC.

Perception goes against stealth. So how are you getting it's a straight DC 20?

First off I said it was DC 20 to notice they were in the room with you. You can see it in the PRD PRD Scroll down to invisibility section

But if you do not feel like scrolling down here is the quote.

A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something's there” but can't see it or target it accurately with an attack. It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check. Even once a character has pinpointed the square that contains an invisible creature, the creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). There are a number of modifiers that can be applied to this DC if the invisible creature is moving or engaged in a noisy activity.

Detect Magic allows them to pinpoint the square the invisible creature is in after 3 rounds, but it does not negate the 50% miss chance.

In fact by the rules if the invisible creature is in combat with you they are at a -20 to the DC to pinpoint the square they are in so you only need a DC 20 perception check then also.

The greatest benefit, by far, for being invisible is that nobody knows you are there in the first place. Allowing a cantrip to reveal that someone is present means a cantrip is negating the purpose of a level 2 spell.

I fundamentally disagree entirely with detect magic revealing invisible creatures. It's one of the very few actual house rules I have.

Trust me I had the same argument. I ranted and raved about it myself. But fact is by RAW detect magic can tell you what 5' square an invisible person/item is at after 3 rounds of concentration.

Now that said, it DOES NOT negate the 50% miss chance for attacking an invisible creature. And if that invisible creature moves out of your cone you have to start the 3 rounds over again to find him.

Remember a DC 20 perception check will let you know there is someone invisible in the room with you, flower can be used to show what square that person is in for 1 round. There are lots of ways to detect someone who is invisible this is just one of them and an imperfect one at that. All you know is the general area that the person is.

I agree with your GM as well. I'd never let Detect Magic detect an illusion. An invisible person is invisible because they have a mind effecting enchantment that makes you not notice them. If there was a camera, they would be on the film. If you looked at the camera while they have the spell up, you would not see them.

In my opinion, using DM to detect invisibility would make sense if the invisibility was evocation - a physical bending of the light. As a mind affecting spell, it doesn't matter what he's radiating - you won't notice it because you can't notice it.

I would agree with you but the problem is invisibility does not stop divination spells. It says so in the rules. it is in the glossary section under invisibility.

Here is the PRD page scroll about 3/4s of the way down to invisibility and it is the 2nd to last sentence in the section.

PRD scroll down to invisibility section

Remember that detect magic takes 3 rounds and is a cone, if the invisible person moves out of the cone the 3 rounds to detect them start over.

Why not just make him invest the feats to get it?

There are drow feats that allow them to get the 11+ SR

Drow PRD

Seems fair to me.

But remember SR can be a hinderance for him. It blocks friendly spells also. Meaning if the healer in the group wants to even heal him he needs to spend an action to lower his SR or the healer needs to try and overcome it and chance wasting the spell.

Con is third

Most of your spells are touch spells, you do not need to have a huge bonus in dex to still hit. You honestly should not be using a bow or crossbow. Use acid splash or ray of frost.

Lets look at the statistics here

Lets say your oponent is a human wearing say chainmail armor and has a good dex of 14.

so we have 10+5+2=17ac

Lets say you put 16 into dex givng you a +3 to hit when you fire that bow/xbow. You still need to roll a 14+ to hit. Giving you roughly a 35% to hit.

Now lets say you instead only put 12 in dex but instead use ray of frost/acid splash. Against the same figther you now attack his Touch AC which is only 12. With the above example you only need to roll an 11+ to hit which gives you a 50% chance to hit. yes it is a bit less damage but you hit more often and you do not have to worry about things like ammo and such.

I much rather have the higher hit points and more consistant damage than go for the chance of a bigger hit (Remember that bow or xbow can still end up only doing 1-3 damage). The hit points will keep me alive, the more consistant damage when I am not doing other things like grease or color spray will contribute more in the long run.

Edit:

Actually it says you MAY deal damage to the weapon. that makes me think you have to choose.

When you crit you get to choose, deal normal damage or try and destroy their weapon instead. It opens up the option for you, makes it so you did not have to anounce it ahead of time.

Well outside of INT your highest stat should be DEX, and having a trusty crossbow works wonders.

I personally disagree, I find Con very important. The extra hit points each level add up.

dont forget to carry a acid flask or liquid ice for +1 to damage for acid splash or ray of frost

full disclosure i did not read the whole thread so that might have been mentioned

Where is the rule for that at?

naturally going 1st is essential, so fleet-footed elf with reactionary trait, improved initiative, and a compsognathus familiar with a DEX of at least +3 should do ok, netting a +19 initiative at level 1

How do you get 19?

Fleet-footed is +2 racial bonus, reactionary is +2 trait bonus, Improved initiative is +4 feat bonus and Compsognathus is +4 familiar bonus. Add that to the +3 dex bonus and you only have +15. Still awesome at 1st level and you will almost always go first.

KrythePhreak wrote:

I know they can have Familiars and Blackblades, but can they get an Arcane bonded object that functions like that of a Wizards?? My plan is a Hexcrafter Magus who uses a Scythe as his weapon. I wanted to have a bonded staff that the scythe blade rests on so it will have a dual function. Though I am still considering taking the dip into Admixture Wizard for the Bonded Staff and Elemental changing abilities.

Yes but it will take two feats and a Charisma of 13 or higher.

Feat 1 - Skill Focus Knowledge (your choice)
Feat 2 - Eldritch Hertiage, Arcane Bloodline.

That's the only way I know of.

- Torger

This also gives the drawback of a bonded object too right? If he did not have the bonded item equiped he would have to make the spellcraft check to even cast the spell?

In PF the minimum casting time for a spell from a magic item is a standard action, even if the spell itself is less.

I thought you could apply metamagic feats to magic items when you make them. Thus cant you make a wand of empowered burning hands by paying the cost to create as if it were the higher level spell? Or an item that casts a quickened spell etc?

I do not understand why people think it is ok for a Paladin to lie.

Through a select, worthy few shines the power of the divine. Called paladins, these noble souls dedicate their swords and lives to the battle against evil. Knights, crusaders, and law-bringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve. In pursuit of their lofty goals, they adhere to ironclad laws of morality and discipline. As reward for their righteousness, these holy champions are blessed with boons to aid them in their quests: powers to banish evil, heal the innocent, and inspire the faithful. Although their convictions might lead them into conflict with the very souls they would save, paladins weather endless challenges of faith and dark temptations, risking their lives to do right and fighting to bring about a brighter future.

It says right there that they adhere to ironclad laws of marality and discipline. A lot of people missunderstand the Lawful part of the paladin alignment thinking that it means the Laws of the country or city etc. Chaotic characters will lie, do what they want when the need suits them. A Lawful character will not, they have a path that they follow and to them that is that. Think of them as being a bit OCD, they have their tics and they have to follow them.

PersonalY I went 4 levels of monk Master of Many Styles/Qinggong Monk and the rest as Magus Kensai.

Master of many styles gives me crane style and crane wing. (crane style makes fighting defensive give me only -2 to hit but +3 dodge bonus, crane wing allows me to totaly negate one melee hit on me per round)

At level 4 instead of safe fall I take bark skin, the extra AC is nice.

As a kensai I am using a scimitar and going for dirvish dance feat.

So all in all I get to use dex, int and wis as a bonus to my AC, I get +3 dodge bonus, and a defensive spell not normally on my list and I can negate 1 attack a round. All the while only needing dex for both my to hit and my damage.

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Wait at Ninten mentioning Golems: Are Golems still immune to Sneak Attacks & Criticals? Didn't that get changed?

As far as I know there are three things that can't be snuck/crit:

• Swarms
  
• Elementals
  
• Oozes
  

You forgot Incorporeal Undead, they are immune also. Or maybe that is just Incorporeal in general.

Let me sing you the song of my people "Merow Raowr Merow!"

Thanks for the quick replies, but I am still requesting an official response. I've seen these answers before, and they do not satisfy.

Bill, in particular, the "anytime" argument would apply only to flat-footed opponents, not flanking after combat starts. The rules for "flanking" say you only get it when making a "melee attack", not a "full attack", and although that may sound like an odd distinction, it appears to be more in line with the initial spirit of sneak attacks (pre-PFRPG). You can't keep surpising an opponent all round.

I want to hear what the official PFRPG stance is on this, and if possible, why. The barrage attacks make sense. What I've seen in posts on multiple attack modes in close combat does not.

Actually it is an offical responce it says it right in the rules.

The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

It is saying anytime situation A happens OR situation B happens. It works for both.

The one time I was playing a healer we had something almost exactly like that happen. With the exception that the rest of the part listened to me and let him try to take it on his own. We let him die, went back to town and hired 2 warrior npc's to help us out and proceeded with the adventure.

When he asked if we were going to get him rezed, I told him there was no coming back from stupid.

Funny thing, my group won't let me play a healer anymore, go figure.

Oh my god this thread got long. Can someone summarize this for me? What is the consensus here - can you detect evil on the innkeeper without him knowing, or not?

Depends on who you ask lol.

Some people think that casting any spell or spell like ability creates effects like glowing runes in the air and such as you cast the spell. This is mainly due to art work for the game. This art work could just as well be showing the spell going off after it has been cast. There is nothing in the rules though that states such effects take place UNLESS it says so specifically in the description of a spell. (think there are a couple that have wierd visual effects). As such these people belive that using a spell like ability is obvious.

The other camp which I will admit I am one of them is that spell like abilities are purly mental actions and there is no visual effect (unless the spell it is imitating has one such as light). Part of the reason being is that you can use a spell like ability even when paralyzed which allows for only mental actions. Because of this and the fact that a spell like ability has no verbal, somatic or material components then there is nothing to see.

Spellcraft only allows you to identify a spell that you can "clearly see being cast". As a spell like ability is purely mental in action you cannot see it being cast. You can however use Knowledge Arcana in conjunction with an ability to see magic such as detect magic to identify any ongoing effect that was from a spell like ability.

Other things to consider is that if a spell allows a saving throw then the target will know that a spell just targeted them. But once again that is after the spell has already been cast. Detect evil has no saving through so the person you are using it on doesnt know about it on that front also.

Have the briefing appear as a painful tattoo or brand every day on the chars skin(have it clear before a new report comes the next day also painful). Then every day he will be dreading the arrival of his much needed intelligence. You get everything you asked for it just is in a form you never would have agreed to if you thought it threw. Also creates a role-playing opportunity. How long can the char stand it? How can he remove this "curse"?

He did say no crew member could be tramatized by it so I do not think that this would work. BUT if he was ever no longer a crew member of the ship he would still be getting reports and this would become an option =)

Or how about you are given a grain of sand and on that grain is written your briefing! Good luck reading something that small.

The briefing is a letter in a language that no one on the boat can read. Nothing about you having to understand the written briefing, just that you have to receive it.

Let's be honest, shall we?

There's nothing in the rules that says Still Spell makes a spell harder to identify. Ditto Eschew Components. Ditto Silent Spell.

Nothing. Not in the feats, not in Spellcraft.

SLA's are treated like spells.

There is NOTHING in any of the rules that makes their effects harder to ID. Not a thing. If you can see, you can tell they are working magic, and potentially ID the effect.

Which should tell you right there that Spellcraft is not looking at waggling fingers, listening to words, or peeking at components. It's looking at something else, the spell and magic actually being manipulated. If this was an MMO, it would be the swirls of runes and colors that erupt as you cast your spells...none of which are V, S or M, and ALL of which are incredibly obvious.

==Aelryinth

Actually that is wrong. Spellcraft states that "you must clearly be able to see the spell being cast". Spell like abilities break the rule of being able to see them being cast as you do nothing other than think about it happening to activate the SLA. Spell like abilities are purly mental actions as they can be used even when you are paralyzed.

Also this is not a MMO there are no glowing runes in the air as you cast a spell. That is why you NEED another spell called Detect Magic in order to see magic.

Sure you can house rule the glowing runes and such if you want but they are not part of the game as it is writen.

They do not get extra rounds. Author has this to say about it.

Thanks Cheapy that is a good find. Will have to talk to my GM about that and see what they say.

So I was wondering about the Archaeologist's Luck. You get 4+Cha bonus in rounds per day like normal bardic performance but does this also increase in rounds as you level like bardic performance does?

Archaeologist

Banecrow wrote:

If you are Paralyzed You cannot move, you cannot act. Your Str and Dex scores are reduced to 0. BUT you can take a purely mental action. IE you can use a spell like ability. Now if someone isnt moving at all and cannot move, how can you SEE them casting the spell to identify it.

It's been a long thread so I often end up restating things I've already said, so please bear with me if this seems rushed.

The observable effect of casting could be anything. My interpretation involves the caster glowing, or a magical pattern somehow becoming manifest.

Take this for example. It does not matter if the character is moving (in fact, they're not! This is a picture and not a movie! ^.^), you can still observe the magic becoming manifest. This magic, of course, may disappear when the casting is complete (as in Invisibility or most Divinations).

or this example actually almost seems to exemplify a spell-like ability. Aang rarely even moves when he is "casting" like this. Usually he's just floating around looking all monk zen-like.

My point was that just because a character isn't moving, doesn't mean there isn't something observable.

At work and I cannot open your links. Will have to check them out later.

Blah, open mouth, insert foot lol you are right. I did not see in with that other ability.

johnlocke90 wrote:

N. Jolly wrote:

I see people around there talking about the value of trapfinding like it's a vital part of the game, and yet most CR appropriate traps really aren't that difficult. Add to that how easy it is to get by traps with summoned monsters/simply avoiding them/ect, the value of the trapfinder (especially for non magical traps, which anyone can find) has decreased to a point where I don't see the value in considering it party composition.

What value do you see in trapfinding? Do you think a party needs it as a skill in and of itself, or that it can be ignored.

I think its mostly an attempt to make rogues feel useful. Its good if your party is too lazy to say "I search for traps" every time they enter a room. Because RAW, you don't notice a trap unless you explicitly say you are searching for traps.

But trapfinding doesn't allow you to spot traps without actually searching for them, for that you need the rogue talent trap spotter or the dwarf racial trait stonecunning (for stone traps at least).

@OP
If by valuable you mean good to have around sure yes, if you mean rare/expensive etc. then no.
Here is a list of ways to get trapfinding (which is just a skill bonus and the ability to disarm magical traps)
1) 1st level rogue (a bunch of archetypes give that up)
2) 3rd level urban ranger
3) 1st level trapper ranger
4) 1st level seeker oracle*
5) 1st level seeker sorcerer*
6) 1st level crypt breaker alchemist
7) 2nd level detective bard*
8) The 2nd level bard/alchemist/wizard spell Aram Zey's focus (too bad the duration is only 1 minute per level)
9) 2nd level archevist bard*
10) 6th level archeologist bard*
11) 1st level sandman bard*

*those 6 get trapfinding in everything but the name

The 6th level Archeologist bard gets evasion not trapfinding. Here is the link to it.

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Well, it's your analogy. : )

Well, as I said, I don't believe your interpretation is wrong, just different. You can obviously see the difference in how these two ideas work from the analogy, yet I hope you can see how they both also have reason behind them.

Ok GrenMeera another reason for why you cannot see a spell like ability being cast.

If you are Paralyzed You cannot move, you cannot act. Your Str and Dex scores are reduced to 0. BUT you can take a purely mental action. IE you can use a spell like ability. Now if someone isnt moving at all and cannot move, how can you SEE them casting the spell to identify it.

Spellcraft cannot identify a Spell like ability at all. You need Knowledge Arcana which is used to identify an ongoing effect that you notice after it has been cast.

Banecrow wrote:

A spell like ability has no verbal, no somatic and no material components.

Just so that you know, Jason Buhlman said that components have nothing to do with spell identification as it is being cast. The entire set of logic you concluded was based around that idea, so you may need to rethink your point.

Jason Buhlman wrote:

The rules here are certainly not clear, because they generally assume that the act of casting a spell has some noticeable element. Notice I did not say component, because I think the rules are silent on parts of spellcasting that are codified components versus those that occur without any sort of codification, such as the wiggle of a finger, change in breathing and other flavor bits that happen when a spellcaster makes the magic happen, as it were.

Back to the topic at hand, since the rules are silent here, I think it is well within the GMs purview to impose a penalty to the Spellcraft check to identify a spell without components (V, S, M). Since there is no real increase for spells with just one, I would guess that this penalty is not very large, perhaps only as much as -4.

This is, of course, up to your GM to adjudicate.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Edit: I should also note that I also agree with James, that a strict reading of the rules says you can make the check, without penalty, regardless of the spell's components.

These are no more than his thoughts, they are not an errata but how he would do things. Untill they come up with an errata using this would be nothing more than a GM house rule. If you are looking for RAW by the book then what I posted above is how it is currently.

The thread that this is from is also not about spell like abilities.

Ok my Thoughts!

First off Spellcraft cannot be used to detect a spell like ability being cast. You could identify the effects of a spell after the fact if there is some visible clue for your character to see by using Knowledge Arcana

Spellcraft Action: Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast.

A spell like ability has no verbal, no somatic and no material components. It is activated by will alone. By RAW you cannot see someone's will, so you cannot identify the spell AS it is being cast because you cannot see it being cast in the first place.

So second, because of the above rules I would rule that people would not notice that a paladin was using detect evil UNLESS they had detect magic or similar spell active. Then they could identify the spell as an ongoing effect as long as the paladin was concentrating on maintaining the spell.

I don't know why everyone is here assuming that as soon as I detect evil on a character, I pull out my sword and lop his head off. No, of course not - I haven't gone full retard.

ROFL, omg thank you. Been a long day at work and I needed to read that comment.

It would help if you told us exactly what you want. Spells ect.

My fiance and myself are looking for a new pathfinder game to play in. Our current GM is getting ready to move to Big Bear so we are about to be gameless.We are looking for a Saturday or Sunday game, preferably every other week. Maybe more depending on our schedule. We live in Winnetka CA and would like to find a game near us.

As a side note we are also looking for a GURPS or Champions superhero game.

Summoned creatures can't use SLAs that mimic spells with an expensive material component in Pathfinder unless you provide that component, Ashiel. Was a bigger rude awakening to me than the inability to use their teleport.

Edit: Actually, in rereading the spell description while writing this response, I noticed that it simply flat out prevents the casting of any SLA that mimics a spell with an expensive material component. You can't even provide one for the monster, it appears. How droll.

Why not?? SLA's have NO material components.

Spell-Like Abilities Spell-Like Abilities (Sp) Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.

Banecrow wrote:

I know someone said there was a faq for 3.5 but this is not 3.5 this is Pathfinder.

Given that neither spell changed in a material way between the transition from 3.5 to PFRPG, that's a pretty specious argument. I thought at some point someone from Pathfinder weighed in to confirm the prior FAQ ruling, but I'm not turning it up.

Still Pathfinder does run things differently. Whenever we want to rule on something for Pathfinder, we have to use its rules and faq's.

It does not matter how things were done in 3.0, 3.5 etc, this game may be similar but it is not them.

If you want to see if we can get a FAQ about this go ahead and mark my post as a FAQ canidate, if we get enough interest we might get one.

Banecrow, I feel your pain. I made the same arguments myself back in the day. But for the black and white FAQ ruling that was directly on point, I would probably not allow Detect Magic to detect Invisibility.

What faq?? Please link.

I know someone said there was a faq for 3.5 but this is not 3.5 this is Pathfinder.

If you can pinpoint the locstion of magic auras through (slightly less than) a foot of stone I don't see why invisibility would hide it. Especially since the invisible pesrson can keep moving and destroy any chance that detect magic has at pinpointing him.

Ok lets remember a few things

1) Stone is not magical

2) Detect magic is a 0 level detection spell

3) Magic Aura is a level 1 illusion spell ment to hide things specifically from detect magic.

4) Invisibility is a level 2 illusion spell ment to hide things BUT if the person has a way to detect them it is harder to do so. (+20 or +40 respectivly)

So just from these things we know lets remember some examples of magic that the pathfinder system uses.

Lets take light and darkness for example. Both are at different ends of the spectrum just like our detect magic and invisibility are. Remember the rules a light or darkness spell will override its opposite if it is higher level or cancell each other out if they are the same level. So by that president normally invisibility would override detect magic EXCEPT invisibility gives a mechanic instead for you to see through it. Remember specific overrides general in rules.