Backlash3906's page

So who wants to stat out a build? Is the dip in Gunslinger (Black Powder Vaulter or otherwise) worth giving up the level of CL?

Seems like Urban Bloodrager or Eldritch Archer Magus are the general concensus. I'd probably still dip at least one level of Gunslinger, likely Black Powder Vaulter.

The Mobile Reload is arguably superfluous to a Spell Cartridges build, but Daring Vault is a great mobility/range boost for a build using one-handed firearms, and will stack with effects like Haste.

Looks like a great pick for an Eldritch Knight gun build. I'd suggest either:

Mysterious Stranger 1 / Primal Elemental Sorcerer 6 / Eldritch Knight X
or
Trench Fighter 3 / Spellslinger Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight X

The Sorcerer build basically gives up on dex-to-damage and instead gets cha-to-damage. While you will need to manage grit very carefully, you'll have Infused Spell Cartridges as an option to deliver powerful damaging spells (because you are a primal elemental sorcerer) to land killing blows and recover that grit. The biggest issue with this build is misfires, since you don't have an way of getting the quick clear ability.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's a thought... take your first level as Sorcerer and take Amateur Gunslinger. Choose Quick Clear as your first level deed. The text of AG says you "CAN" trade the feat for Extra Grit, not that you automatically do. So, for the cost of a feat, you can get the starting deeds from Mysterious Stranger plus Quick Clear. Sound legit?

So, Heroes of Golarion introduced a collection of feats for the use of firearms in Arcadia, where black powder and ammunition is even rarer than the Inner Sea Region outside of Alkenstar. Of particular note is the feat 'Spell Cartridges'.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/spell-cartridges-combat/

With Arcane Strike active, it allows the wielder of a firearm to fire a force bullet (1d4 per 5 CL) with the range and crit modifier of the base firearm, without the use of black powder or ammunition. What build can make the best use of this?

Things to remember:
No reload time!
As long as you're taking at least five levels of Gunslinger for Gun Training, damage die size isn't of great concern.
Dual-balanced weapon modification will open up greater viability for dual-wielding firearm builds, now that reloading is resolved.
Check with your GM if Stock-Striker Style's last benefit will work with TWF feats as it will with Weapon Finesse.
Pirates and corsairs, enjoy your waterproof firearm solution!
Possibly no noise or muzzle flash anymore? Sniper builds? Check with GM if this will affect any Gunslinger deeds which may have a 'physical' component, like Distracting or Menacing Shot.
The ONLY standard Gunslinger deed which requires the expenditure of ammunition is the Stop Bleeding function of Utility Shot.
Force bullets still target touch AC, and remain viable for Deadly Aim.
Spell Cartridges is NOT a standard action to use, so full attacks are still in play.
NO RELOAD TIME!

For builds that use spellcasting levels as more than a dip (4th level spells minimum), consider the upgraded feat:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/infused-spell-cartridges-combat/

Need to get around an energy immunity (WE'RE LOOKING AT YOU, FIREBRAND ARCHETYPE), or exploit a vulnerability?
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dragon-shot-combat-grit/

Those are all the highlights I can think to connect with this at the moment. Please discuss. (:

Was browsing the document today looking for a class that needed finishing off, and I saw the Gunslinger only had four archetypes not yet done so I did them:

** spoiler omitted **

Thank you for the 'slinger love, but there's also the Black Powder Vaulter from Martial Arts Handbook, and the Antihero Handbook Blatherskite if you care to throw in your two copper about them. (:

The Scatter Gunner, from People of the Wastes, is also missing from the document. Also, Planar Rifter, from Plane-hopper's Handbook.

Also what is Empty Quiver Style Chain?

Empty Quiver Style is a combat style (sequence of feats meant to be taken one after another) that uses a firearm, bow, or crossbow as a melee weapon.

The Empty Quiver series is useful because it lets you focus on just one weapon's enhancement bonuses and enchantments, and you don't need to worry about switching between weapons when in melee.

There's also the Empty Quiver Style chain.

Empty Quiver lets you treat one handed firearms as a light mace, which can be used with Weapon Finesse. But as you said, Empty quiver style is a LOT of feats to pull off. I do think Empty Quiver Flexibility pays for itself though.

I just double-checked the wording, and you're right. I thought it was 'deal damage as' rather than 'as if it were' wording. Nice.

So I guess with that observed, I'd recommend dropping WFinesse from a use of Training, ditch Stock Striker entirely (unless for some reason you have TWF dreams), and drop in Flexibility via Training. No getting around using feat slots for Rapid Shot and Stabbing Shot though. A merciful DM might let you off the hook for Stabbing.

The Empty Quiver Style feat chain enables you to treat your gun as a mace, and even apply your Gun Training class feature. Dex to damage in melee!

Like everything for a Gunslinger, it's feat intensive, but there are ways to optimize the gun-kata/gun-fu aspect without burning grit on Pistol Whip.

I forget the source at the moment, but like multiple enchantments of Bane with different selections, multiple uses of Training can be placed on the same weapon (Cestus or hand wraps mean you'll always have them). However, you can only use 'end' feats, nothing to fill prerequisites for others. So...
Take: G, E (or 3 levels of Weapon Master Fighter), B, and A
Use Training (+1 enchantment) for: C and D, on separate items to keep costs down.

Reorganize as necessary if you REALLY want to go further into the style chains, and make sure to prioritize your full BAB class levels until you get Weapon Finesse, to make sure your Pistol Whip or Empty Quiver attacks still stand a chance of connecting.

(I can't believe I'm the first person to bring this up in CharOp.)

So, Martial Arts Handbook finally gave us the archetype for run-and-gun/gun-fu that we've deserved since the inception of the Gunslinger class, The Black Powder Vaulter.

The swaps:
Gunslinger's Dodge >> Daring Vault, swift action and 1 Grit for a 20' boost to speed, and the ability to parkour from one wall or fixed surface to another.
Deadeye >> Mobile Reload, a 'have grit' deed that lets you reload as part of a move action, as long as that reload would be a move or swift action (free action isn't mentioned, and might be an intentional prevention of abuse with advanced firearms). At third level, this works with...

Gunslinger Initiative >> Shot On The Run. Got Grit? You've got this feat! (With firearms you're proficient with.) At 7th level, you can combine this with the Targeting deed.

Startling Shot >> Art of the Gun. As long as you've got grit, reload and fire all you want! It won't provoke A's of O! Firearms you wield now also threaten, with your choice of either Pistol Whip or firing a loaded firearm for 1 grit.

Epert Loading >> Dual Shot on the Run. You can now make two shots when using Shot on the Run.

With all that to digest, two options jump out at me as synergizing with this. Gun Scavenger, although it will take away your option for Targeting On The Run, will give you consistent access to either another 10ft of range, or the Distant enchantment. Combined with Mobile Reload and Daring Vault, even the most meager of one-handed firearms should be able to reach your foes.
The other option is Spring-heeled Style. The third link in the style chain is unnecessary with Dual Shot on the Run, and while the second benefit of the initial style feat (avoiding provoking AoO) will be covered by Art of the Gun, you'll still get a nice attack bonus, and Spring-heeled Sprint will push to cover truly ridiculous amounts of ground when combined with Daring Vault.

Other thoughts? Thoughts on this archetype in general?

Equipment Trick (rope) and the Shikigami Style chain will increase the damage of the weapon by up to three steps. Trick with Catch Off Guard will get you more sneak attack opportunities.

Oh my god! Hilariously stupid ideas!

What if I gave the character Catch Off Guard, and for her melee weapon she used the Stilleto Boots!? :D they're improvised and deal damage as a punching dagger, Catch-Off Guard would remove the improvised penalty, and let me sneak attack with them against unarmed opponents. Piss her off, you get the dominatrix boots.

And then for no reason, Shikigami Style with them to count them 3 sizes larger with the Disarm quality? You get close, she kicks your weapon away in the dark and boots you in the face for 3d6 + Sneak.

:O And they'd be light! So they could be her Finesse Training weapon and get Dex to damage!

I adore the concept, but I think you'll need a DM ruling to have the boots truly count as a light weapon and be valid for Finesse Training. "Deals damage as" is not the same as "as if it were". Look at the heavy/light mace language in Empty Quiver Style for comparison.

Scrollmaster Wizard archetype. :p

Since it seems quiet, and since I've seen it done before, I'll just post the rules index.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Info on the Ninja Archetype please and thank you! :o

Why not a Strix urban barbarian with unchained rogue for dex to damage?

Does Urban stack with Mad Dog?

As stated earlier, the reason for going Human is to get Animal Companion and Familiar (Imp. Familiar Bond) at full power from Level 1.

Eldritch Guardian dip seems solid, but what combat feats are good to share with a chicken or peacock? Amplified Rage is only a Teamwork feat, so EG won't extend it to the Familiar.

Why not Tengu?

If the point is just to have "birds", I would suggest Roc as animal companion and Hawk as familiar.

A very similar concept can be achieved with a Sacred Huntsmaster Inquisitor with Eagle domain, or a Cleric with Eagle and Animal domains. Tengu would particularly synergize in these cases given the +2 racial bonus to Wisdom.

Human is necessary for bonus feat at level 1 to bring Improved Familiar Bond online without delay.

Roc definitely looks more powerful than the Swan.

You've obviously never run afoul of a peacock

Level 4 in Mad Dog Barbarian will allow your Swan to rage.

Primal Companion Hunter will add Evolutions for 1min/lvl. 3 levels of Divine Hunter will add the Celestial/Fiendish template.

2 levels of Eldritch Guardian Fighter will let your Chicken use your combat feats.

Peacock preserves comedy value, and Intimidate is as nice as extra HP, so I'll put that equal to the chicken. Hawk isn't as funny, but arguably has a more useful Familiar benefit for ranged builds.

Dangit, I meant to include Mad Dog in the opening lines of this thread. Yes, that's core to this build, as I don't know of another archetype that starts the Barbarian with an Animal Companion.

Okay, so this concept is just in it's earliest inception, but I figured I'd see what ideas could get thrown at me.

A human Barbarian, with the House of Green Mothers Pupil trait, can start play at first level with an Animal Companion and a Familiar at full levels equal to their level (character level for Familiar, Barb class level for the Animal Companion).

Animal Companion - Trumpeter Swan
Familiar - Chicken

I don't know how optimal the Swan is, and I know the Chicken is sub-optimal, but dammit, have you seen either of them get mad? I can hardly think of more fitting war beasts for a barbarian.
Is there any 4 level or less dip that would be worth it, as long as it was combined with Boon Companion to keep the Swan up to speed?

The Chicken would have the the Mauler familiar archetype, and I'm considering the Wrecker or Bully animal companion archetypes.

Thanks for any advice.

Full details on the Oversized Goblin subrace.

"Oversized goblins are Medium size, and grow to 4 to 5 feet tall. They tend to be particularly obese, weighing between 225 and 275 pounds. Instead of the normal racial ability score modifiers for goblins, oversized goblins gain a +2 bonus to Strength, a +2 bonus to Dexterity, and a –2 penalty to Charisma."

Really important to remember - on top of the normal non-proficiency penalty, firearm ammunition loaded by someone non-proficient increases the misfire rate by 4 as well.

Could you slap the Versatile Design weapon modification on the tankard to let it be considered a close weapon?

Alternately, under the rules for Creating New Weapons, you can make a custom weapon function as a mundane tool. A tankard seems pretty mundane.

Tool (0 DP): The weapon can also serve as a specific mundane tool. Add triple the price and double the weight of the tool to the weapon’s final price and weight.

Bombs are created in the same action that they're thrown, so no worries there.

A powder horn's basic construction is sufficient to make it flame-resistant, and I'd imagine a gunsmith's kit would be similarly reinforced.

With the availability of both alchemical ordnance and the higher capacity of the Paddlefoot Pistol, be CAREFUL. Ordnance becomes inert after a number of rounds equal to your INT mod. At higher levels, this shouldn't be an issue (as long as you keep up your stat boosters), but with your 3/4 BAB and without using Rapid Shot, bullets will likely stay in the chamber for several rounds. That's even without the likelihood of rounds that you may need to use an infusion, quaff a potion, or aid an ally instead of taking a shot.

Give some consideration to taking Rapid Reload ASAP, and just taking the allotted bonus combat feat at sixth level instead.

If you really want to wield both the padpistol and the buckler gun, consider the Training enchantment to grant TWF to yourself without using up a feat slot. Firing against touch will mitigate most of the TWF penalties, but eventually you will find yourself shooting outside the first range increment.

A single level of Gunslinger to get Quick Clear and Deadeye will protect you, even if WIS is your dump stat you'll still have one Grit Point. Don't bother with Extra Grit, as Cartridge Savant should be enough to protect you from most problems with increased Misfire odds. One point of grit capacity for Quick Clear, along with the backup weapon, should suffice. With your Alchemical Ordnance, you should be striking killing blows often enough to keep up with your Grit needs. Improved Critical can help that, but make sure to get the Fast Ordnance discovery first.

ETA: One more thing - Alchemical ordnance can only be created at the time of loading, not added to a pre-loaded bullet or batch of pellets. You'll need a free hand for that.

I get my gun from my class right?

Yes, but with some conditions.

The Gun Chemist gains the same Gunsmith class feature as the standard Gunslinger. This means they get the Gunsmithing bonus feat, and also a battered gun. They still are limited to choosing from the blunderbuss, musket, or pistol, the same as a Gunslinger. In addition, they can expend a use of alchemical ordnance to repair a broken gun, as long as the broken condition was from a misfire.

Backlash3906 wrote:

Related to this general discussion, what are the strongest options (especially feats) for Eldritch Guardian, for the fighter to synergize with their Mauler familiar? To the best of my knowledge, natural attack fighters are not a great option, even with Natural Weapons as a Fighter Weapon Group, and I'm not sure what other loadout is best to work for both of them.

Is Intelligence of 6 deemed enough for Exotic Weapon Proficiency, assuming the familiar has sufficiently compatible anatomy?

Monkey style, paired opportunist combat reflexes, intrepid rescuer (Kurgess followers only): every attack to you OR to the familiar generates an AOO attack from BOTH you AND the familiar

Oh My Strong Man I love this.

"Spot! Combat positions!"
*familiar falls flat to the ground*
"Good boy, Spot!" *also falls flat to the ground* "Now, advance!" *Fighter and familiar begin belly-wiggling across the battlefield*

PrC into Evangelist can boost the BAB while only losing one level of Arcanist progression. 1-level dip of your choice for proficiency in Martial Weapons will get you into Eldritch Knight (full BAB).

Related to this general discussion, what are the strongest options (especially feats) for Eldritch Guardian, for the fighter to synergize with their Mauler familiar? To the best of my knowledge, natural attack fighters are not a great option, even with Natural Weapons as a Fighter Weapon Group, and I'm not sure what other loadout is best to work for both of them.

Is Intelligence of 6 deemed enough for Exotic Weapon Proficiency, assuming the familiar has sufficiently compatible anatomy?

You could probably reflavor Pinning Shot into 'Sticking Shot'. A minimal GP cost for a glue/tanglefoot effect.

Some items to consider from People Of The Wastes:

Gun Chemist (Alchemist archetype) discovery available with a 2 level dip
Chemical Stability: When firing an alchemical ordnance, the gun chemist reduces the misfire value of the firearm by 1 (minimum 0) and ignores any increased misfire value from using an alchemical cartridge.

Create Enhanced Firearm feat
Prerequisite(s): Craft Magic Arms and Armor; Craft (weapons) 1 rank or Gunsmithing.
Benefit(s): When you craft a firearm or magical firearm, you can use reinforced components to make the weapon more reliable. This increases the item’s total construction cost by 10%. The misfire chance of the weapon is reduced by 1. This can never reduce a firearm’s misfire chance by more than 1.

The latter will cost you an extra feat, but it's worth considering if you expect to have crafting time available.

As for myself, I've always thought the "get out after 5th level" was overly harsh. I'm a big fan of Bleeding Wound. Ability Damage bleed (you can inflict multiple types simultaneously, given enough iterative attacks) either puts your enemies on a rather harsh timer for them or burns through their action economy if they want to heal it.

Two levels of Gun Chemist will let you free action reload via RR and Paper Cartridges, with no increased misfire, plus a little more boom per day.

Along with preparations for undead, keep swarms and constructs (hardness/DR) in mind as well.

Getting ready for a sci-fantasy game with a friend, inspired by Final Fantasy D20, and I was reminiscing back to the magic gunman from Final Fantasy Unlimited. I can think of a few different concepts off the top of my head for assembling specialized magic bullets, so I wanted to see what ideas might be offered.

Any of the following, save Gun Chemist, would be using Words of Power:

Spellslinger Wizard(1)/Sorcerer(X) (Psychic bloodline is jumping out at me, but I forget why...)
Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger (5)/Sorcerer(2)/Arcane Archer (GM permission to adapt for firearms)
Gun Chemist Alchemist (X)
Eldritch Archer Magus (X) (So sad this doesn't stack with Eldritch Scion, as I really prefer spontaneous casting...)

Any input appreciated. I love the 'lego brick' style of magic that Words of Power enables, particular from a gun mage perspective. Thank you.

ETA: The priority is for multiple 'elements' (damage type or otherwise) combined into individual bullets, more than just high numbers for enhancement bonuses or other static damage mods.

There even is an official favoured class bonus for drow paladins in pathfinder. (Yes, real paladins, not antipaladins.)

Source? Didn't find it under the Drow or Paladin pages on d20pfsrd, but I'm intrigued.

PCs with mutations (per People Of The Wastes) can take the Sonar Mutation and Blind Deformity.

There's also Desna's Shooting Star from the Divine Fighting Technique feat. It lets you use your Charisma for attack and damage when using a starknife.

A minor tangent away from Flying Blade, but DSS has insane synergy with the Sword Devil Ranger archetype (Worldscape). Single-stat your AC/Atk/Dmg off of Charisma if unarmored (while still adding Dex to AC). In addition, the archetype also offers a second combat style (take your pick of Thrown Weapon, Archery, or Faithful - Desna), and a few times a day atk/dmg spike in the form of Death Vow (extra uses available with a feat).

If GM rules against FBT = Weapon Training, you may want to consider three levels of Weapon Master. This opens up usage of Advanced Weapon Training with bonus feats (swash levels count as fighter levels) and also Gloves of Dueling. Focus and Specialization chains are bland, but they'll increase your numbers. If you're willing to invest five levels in Fighter, AWT Focused Weapon will bump your dagger or starknife dice to d6.

AWT - Warrior Spirit will open up the Sharding enchantment (or others as necessary), if you're still waiting on Ricochet Shot.

Do thrown weapons count as ranged for the purposes of Impressive Grit?

What is it that makes the Flying Blade a definite for you?

If your GM allows Words of Power, observe Commandment XI of this guide. Enjoy smacking the enemy caster with a Charm Person with a fort-save.

Explosive Missile only works on one-handed firearms.

I like Gunslinger, but even I'll admit the over-5 levels of it have become even less essential for gun-usage in the face of Martial Focus + Impressive Grit. IG will let you have a number of uses per day of dead shot, startling shot, or targeting equal to your Int-modifier.

Apologies for the mistake about compatibility. I just fired up HeroLab and looked at what was still available after selecting Firebrand.

So, it finally hit the SRD, so I'd like to ask for advice in optimizing the Firebrand Gunslinger archetype. This is a gunslinger that believes there is one solution to all problems, and it is fire.

What you gain: Non-stacking Cha-based Bombs as an Alchemist of your level minus 4, constantly under the effect of the Explosive Bomb discovery, Cha-based Grit and Cha-increased save DC's for Dragon's Breath alchemical cartridges (at the cost of 1 grit point per round). Direct critical hits with bombs will restore grit, in addition to the usual killing blows and critical hits with firearms. DB cartridges will also scale in damage by 1d6 every 4 levels, starting at level 4. Misfire chances for DB cartridges are also reduced.

What you swap: Deadshot, the Gunslinger's Vital Strike With Better Crit Chances gives way to Big Boom!; for the cost of a daily bomb use and 2 grit points, you can make the following attack:

What you lose: bonus feats, deadeye, gun training, and the ability to choose a battered firearm other than a dragon pistol.

It's a terribly fun archetype at face-value, as long as you're not in a heavily fire-resistant campaign, but you better have some high level healing or defense ready to back you up, to compensate for the short-range/front-line demands of the Dragon Pistol.

Please discuss what optimization would be different from the standard Gunslinger.

Bonus: The Firebrand will stack with the following archetypes: Gun Tank, Gunner Squire (I mean, you can, but why would you?), Maverick, Mysterious Stranger, Thronewarden, and Wyrm Sniper.

You can actually take Firebrand + Maverick + Mysterious Stranger, Thronewarden, or Wyrm Sniper.
If you want to get TRULY ludicrous, you could even go Fb+Mav+MS+WS, but again... why?

Two words - Extreme dentures.

Has there been a ruling on whether the revised RR text vs the Firearms rules takes precedence?

From the SRD -
Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms are chamber-loaded. It is a move action to load a one-handed or two-handed advanced firearm to its full capacity. The Rapid Reload feat reduces this to a free action.

Important distinction between Musket and Rifle, Rifle goes to free-action reloads with just Rapid Reload, no Musket Master necessary (all advanced firearms are free-action with RR, regardless of type).

Ignore the poisonous flavor text that wants you to be in melee, and use the combat feats from an Eldritch Scrapper to improve your archery.

...if you can grab a copy of Pathfinder: Worldscape issue 4, there is the Jungle Lord Ranger archetype. It's basically Thun'da or Tarzan. Favored terrain, up to four animal companions, climb speed, and unarmored AC bonuses are the highlights.

Backlash3906 wrote:

Thanks to the Training enchantment? 2000GP

Not quite, since it always has to be an a weapon with at least a +1 bonus already, it's at least 4,000 gp.

That is just for a combat feat, however, and it is limited to a 1st tier one, so it won't be game-breaking, and the type of weapon will likely restrict it further. Granted, I suppose nothing stops a rapier from granting Point Blank Shot... but it would be unusual.

You definitely have me on the cost, so thank you.

However, there is nothing stopping the training enchantment from being used for capstone feats (Greater CM feats, Ace Trip/Disarm, etc).

That feat cannot be used as a prerequisite for any other feats and functions for the wielder only if she meets its prerequisites.

Thanks to the Training enchantment? 2000GP

Could Urban Barbarian and Feral Gnasher archetypes be taken at the same time.

I may be missing one or two from the latest content releases, but the archetypes that can be stacked with Feral Gnasher are: Beast Totem, Brutal Pugilist, Chaos Totem, Elemental Kin, Fiend Totem, Flesheater, Giant Stalker, Invulnerable Rager, Mad Dog, Mooncursed, Numerian Liberator, Pack Rager, Raging Cannibal, Savage Barbarian, Spirit Totem, Superstitious, Untamed Rager, and Wild Rager.

Damage dealing is the least interesting thing about the Gunslinger for me. I like all of the deeds that let you make the cinematic actions the character type is known for in cinema.

But avoid Pistol Whip like the plague; take Empty Quiver Style. Please.

Does anyone know if VMC Alchemist meets the "Alchemist 4" requirement of Explosive Missile? VMC selections are referred to as a 'secondary class', so...?