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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber. 863 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.

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At long last, Dodeca Weather is nearly complete! I've done another round of edits. I've added a short section about magical weather events, and outlined a short section about weather and skills. Once I'm done with this, I need to print a hard copy for a final proofread. I'm shooting for 31 May as the release date.


Diffan wrote:
Werthead wrote:
Quote:
There has been no real acceptance from WOTC that 4e failed, so I doubt 5e will mend any bridges.
Well, 4e is being canned years ahead of schedule, so clearly someone somewhere has accepted it has failed (or at least underperformed). The question is whether that realisation came from Hasbro or from WotC themselves.
I didn't know WotC actually scheduled a date to end 4E products? What, pray tell, was that date exactly? Or, realistically, how long does a product have to be in circulation to be considered a success or a failure? 3E and by that extention v3.5 lasted approx 7 1/2 years. So if 4E lasted until say...the summer of 2014, would that make it any better THEN that they put out D&D:Next? Personally, I think 5 years is a pretty long run for a game, espically a game with so much dissentient behavior of the overall gaming community.

4e will have lasted only 3 years.

And Scott Rouse says that 4e should have lasted 8-10 years. http://www.enworld.org/forum/news/316069-wizards-coast-seeks-unity-new-edit ion-7.html#post5769720

2e was ended because of financial problems.

3.x was ended because it didn't bring in enough revenues. http://www.enworld.org/forum/news/315975-wizards-coast-dungeons-dragons-ins ider-d-d-4th-edition-hasbro-some-history.html

5e is very much a sign that 4e wasn't a financial success or under performed. Which doesn't mean 4e wasn't a quality product. Just that not enough people bought it.

Edit: Dang, links aren't linking.


PF's success isn't just (or necessarily even primarily) due to it's rules imo, it's also due to the brilliant and prolific support materials; it's monthly AP books, it's modules, the extremely faithfully and well detailed and supported setting. I don't even use the PF rules, but I buy stacks of PF sourcebooks.

4e saw not the barest shadow of such support, I think 5e will require a change of attitude away from under-detailed and bland (imo) fluff.

Andoran (Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber)

My question is - at what point do people simply tire of buying game upgrades and supplements. It seems like 5E just came about too fast to bring on consumer fervor. (That said, I hope Paizo isn't planning a Pathfinder 1.5 anytime in the foreseeable future!)


Picks up YD by one leg ...

Smashes him into the floor a few time..

PUNY DINGO!!!!!


yellowdingo wrote:
And Black Widow? I mean really? Little miss SHIELD Agent doesn't strike me as anything more than eye-candy for the 'Sexy Ninja'-loving geeks. Loki would impregnate her with a look and dump her in his harem of ex-girl friends.

Think that says more about you than it does about the Avengers.

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

What's really funny is the difference between "compatibility with the previous edition" issue in 4E and 5E development.

2007
"Will it be compatible with 3E?"
"Can I use my Duskblade?"
"What about that 300 USD worth of books I bought last week?"

2012
*crickets*
*tumbleweed*

Osirion (Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

Wouldn't you assume, that, if sales of a game (especially a game from an established line) don't match the expectations (I am not saying this is the case wit Diablo 3, but it is what 'voting with the wallet' would be about, Blizzard would start analyzing the problem?

If so, the need for internet conection is one of the main points critizized regarding Diablo 3, not only fan 'reviews', but also in professional reviews (at least in Germany), so it should be obvious to Blizzard that the (again: hypothetical)lack of sales had something to do with that practice.

(RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8)

Wow, I think my (now third level) sorcerer in PFS would make some people cry.


  • No wand of CLW, 4 potions of healing instead
  • Darkwood masterwork club.
  • +1 Hakiri-maki
  • sleep, snapdragon fireworks in his spell list.
  • Lowest stat is an 11 wisdom, highest stat is his 17 int.

But he's fun.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber)

sunbeam wrote:

Everyone knows two weapon fighting only makes sense if you use the same weapon in both hands, so you can get maximum use from your feats. Everyone knows you have to stack as many damage modifiers as you can on that weapon.

Everyone also knows about will saves and fighters and 3.5/Pathfinder. Iron Will and probably Improved Iron Will HAVE to be in every build, along with those Gloves of Dueling.

Sure. And everyone knows that if you go dual wielding, the only weapon worth using is the dual keen kukri, for the sheer chance of critical is the only thing that makes fighters worthwile.

And everyone knows that the only reason to, ever, raise Cha above 7 is a 87-points Point Buy (or better) (which will force you to get that Cha 8, all other stats being 18 already)... after all, who needs social aptitude when your whole raison d'etre is to put out as much mega damage as quickly as possible?

Sheesh, and that's just the basics. Everyone should know what elementary steps are necessary to have a chance at winning this game. And of course, anyone who has no chance of winning the game should never ever be included in the party, as his underperformance will make the whole raid... erm, game, suffer. Right?

Please, do yourself a favor: Don't come any closer than, say, 10 miles of any table I am playing (or GMing) at. Your blood pressure just wouldn't be able to cope with the situation.

Thank you very much.

Shadow Lodge (Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber)

sunbeam wrote:
Now, let me get this straight, you guys are saying roleplayers don't take Iron Will right?

Nobody is saying that. What we are saying is that just because a player doesn't select Iron Will, Improved Iron Will, get auto-given Gloves of Dueling, that doesn't mean he's a noob that shouldn't be playing the game, as you seem to be implying.

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

sunbeam wrote:

I don't know how to answer that.

Do you avoid using spells that have will saves on your players or something?

Nope, it seems like I'm actually playing this game instead of wondering if my PC will solo 10 Erinyes and whose mother must be called out if he won't.


So what if they're not optimized? Who are you to tell people how they have to build their characters? Pre-generated pcs are an option. If you don't like them, don't use them, it is that simple.

Make no mistake, I help out with optimization when I have a bit of free time to kill on the boards, I enjoy it. And I enjoy optimized pcs, but that is NOT the only way to play the game. Nor should it be. Nor should it be the Paizo sponsored way to play the game.

I swear to gods, if people don't have something to complain about they're just not happy.


Part of the reason we quit putting the pregenerated iconics in there is precisely because of this reaction.

I'm actually not at all interested in trying to make the most over-the-top numbercrunched optimized characters... be it in a game I'm running or as sample PCs. Partially because it's kind of soul-numbing, but also because it's pretty hard to sift through every possible spell option and try to perfect a stat block that, in the case of those sample PCs, is being done at the last minute anyway.

In fact, we often picked spells for the PCs based ENTIRELY on the length of the spell, since too many long-named spells would make the spells prepared not fit in the space we had available. In other cases, we'd pick spells (and feats and the like) that might not be "optimized" for a specific build, but are the perfect feats for that particular character.

For example as well... Merisiel is wearing studded leather armor because that's what she's wearing in her artwork.

The iconic stat blocks had FAR more masters to serve than the "Optimization Master." to the extent that serving the "Optimization Master" was never on the to-do list in the first place.

AKA: Those pregenerated characters are NOT intended to be optimized, but folks who want or expect them to be get worked up and therefore threads like these start up. So we quit doing it.

If you're looking for a better representation to how we build high-level wizards, a better place to look than the prebuilt PCs is to any high-level wizard NPCs in the adventure. Of course... those are built as NPCs with specific story goals and requirements their stats must serve first before any other master... and they've got worse stats than most PCs most of the time, so maybe not.

(Pathfinder Superscriber)

Joseph Wilson wrote:


This is why I never dump charisma. I dump con before I'd dump charisma, and just make up for it with AC and HP favored class bonuses.

Though really, I try to avoid the whole "dumping stats" thing all together.


Old Drake wrote:

As far as I see it, if you roleplay a low Cha character well, you have lots of problems with a romance. Because that's what low Cha means... you can't interact well with people.

If a player min-maxes and has a dump stat, I don't think a DM should cover for that. It's the price of min-maxing.

This is exactly correct.

You wouldn't let a character who dump-statted his Strength who was played by a weightlifter get away with lifting heavy objects, or a character who dump-statted his Intelligence use physics to solve problems just because he's played by an engineer.

So why let a character who's got a Charisma dump stat get away with being charming and having an easy time at making friends or creating relationships just because his roleplayer is a charasmatic and good roleplayer.

Indeed... a good roleplayer who dump stats Charisma does NOT puruse relationships but is in some way socially inept and has a hard time making a lasting impression on other people. If a good roleplayer wants to be impressive and memorable socially and develop lots of relationships (be they romances or rivalries), that player should build a character with a high Charisma.

Just as a player who wants a character to lift heavy objects builds a character with a high strength, or as a player who wants a character to be super smart has a high Intelligence.


It's also worth noting that two players using exactly the same point buy making exactly the same characters are not going to experience any one AP as the same level of complexity. I know people who can make an absolutely devastating character with 15 point buy, and other people who can't make a 25 point buy character survive past 1st level.

Player skill is a HUGE factor. Large enough that it kinda makes the argument about what point buy to use irrelevant.

The only tool we have to ensure that a game feels properly balanced in the end is the GM. He or she is the only one who knows what the players are capable of. Adjusting adventures is a requirement as a result.

By assuming that a group consists of four 15-point characters played by players with average skills, we can achieve a baseline that remains the same for each AP and thus makes it easier for each GM to adapt.


Barong wrote:
James, I'm curious about the status of petitioner's memories. The Beastiary seems to suggest only rarely do they retain their memories of their mortal lives. I find this sad because our memories make up a huge portion of who we are, and the fact when the soul goes to one of the celestial realms, they don't recognize their family members?

Death is a sad thing, and we chose to maintain that in Pathfinder, essentially. Dying should NOT be viewed as a "route to gain more power," which is what it would be if you retained your memories (and thus, it would stand to reason, your class levels and skills) upon dying and becoming a petitioner and then eventually becoming an outsider. Death is a transformation, in other words, and not one that the living should normally want.

That said... there ARE cases where a petitioner might retain a few memories or even all of their memories. Those are exceptions to the rule though, and should only happen VERY VERY rarely. Note: This means that if it only ever happens to the PCs, that means that it only ever happens to 4 or so characters in any one campaign... which is plenty rare.

But yeah... dying is not a happy thing.

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

The moment PF has Dragonspawned (complete with boobies and a "play this race if you want to be a proud dragon and roar!" blurb) a part of me will die inside. I do oh so much love how dragons are faaar and awaaay from mortal shenanigans (unlike, say, Forgotten Realms).

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

Toadkiller Dog wrote:


And yes, it's true, in english AP's means something belonging to the AP, whereas the word you're looking for is 'APs'. Read the freely available grammar rules.

I know I'm likely the wrong person to bring this up, not being a native speaker and all, but I do believe that you capitalize the names of languages in English. :-P


In fact, I'm convinced this adventure could be run with a mix of press-ganged PCs and established crewmember PCs (at least dating back to the recent battle with Cheliax ships which lead to the Captain needing to press gang new sailors in the first place).

Nothing will be broken, per se, by letting the PCs have a sword on day 2 rather than day 20, but there are some story and mechanical things you'll have to adapt to.

Spoiler:

There are three purposes to stripping the PCs, though, I think.
1) Getting their gear back gives the players something to do while the Wormwood is just floating around.
2) Provides a source of XPs for succeeding in getting stuff back.
3) Gives a reason to befriend that priestess NPC who slips the PCs a couple pieces of important gear at the start.

If you can fill their time with other encounters (1), provide other sources of xp to make up the difference (2), and find another reason for PCs to become friends with a handy source of healing magic (3), you should be fine with established crew members, press-ganged crew, or even a mix of both.

Paizo Employee (Creative Director)

Alan_Beven wrote:

James.

1. Is Nex still alive?

2. I have heard some critique of Golarion that many of the countries/regions seem to be not connected to the ones around them. I can understand that critique in some way, eg ustalav and belkzen seem quite unrelated neighbours. But in Europe many countries exist side by side each with their own strong identities. What is your view on this critique?

3. Golarion has quite a "realistic", lower fantasy feel than some D&D settings. (my take anyways). It seems to me however the ruleset is more geared, especially at above level 10 to fairly superhuman PCs. (compared to say 1st Ed). In a hypothetical 2nd Ed pathfinder game would you address this in some fashion, or you don't agree that it is an issue?

1) That's still a secret.

2) That was, to a certain extent, by design. We wanted to allow the Inner Sea's regions to be easy for anyone to ignore—if you like every region in there but, say, Numeria, you can run your version of the world relatively fine while replacing the spot labeled "Numeria" on your map with anything else you prefer. My view on the critique is that it's worth noting and keeping in mind, but at the same point it doesn't completely apply. We're not building a REAL world, but a GAME world. Just as hit points aren't meant to completely model real bodilly injuries, neither is Golarion meant to completely model a fully realistic collection of nations that share borders. In any case, as we do adventures and sourcebooks that further develop nations, we HAVE started to work on how the nations interact with those nearby... that information isn't part of the Inner Sea World Guide that much, but if you want it, it's there. You just have to pay more money to see it, basically. ;-P

3) I don't think this is an issue, frankly. And I tend to feel that Golarion's magic level is equal to Greyhawk's, and that realm was all about 1st edition D&D. If you were running a 2nd edition game in Golarion, I wouldn't bother changing a thing to the world, since I just don't think it's an issue.

Taldor (Pathfinder Campaign Setting Superscriber)

As long as they don't progress the timeline the setting can continue to grow and the only difference between 'nice middle ground' and 'lots of detail' is which books you buy and how many.


If you want a homegrown world, use PF and ignore Golarion completely. Done.
If you want a "middle-ground" world, just take maybe the Inner Sea Primer or something else you like and ignore the rest.

Noone forces you to use everything, just because it's there.

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Color me shocked, SHOCKED, that to increase your defenses, you need to decrease your offensive capabilities. What a stunning revelation.

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Battles Case, GameMastery Maps Subscriber)

TriOmegaZero wrote:
mdt wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Joana wrote:
I saw it in 2D and don't feel like I missed anything. I had to stop and think afterwards if there were any scenes that felt like they were meant to be in 3D. Took me a while to even come up with one.

I've a suspicion the ** spoiler omitted **

That sequence absolutely nailed the old school comic book feel of a great big ol' superhero team fight.

Pregnant pause...

Sucker Punch!
And we laughed. Oh, how we laughed.

I honestly don't think there was more than 15 minutes in any stretch where people didn't laugh in our theatre. I swear I never expected the story to have that much humor, and still be action packed, much less tell a decent story.

(RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8)

mdt wrote:

[Some of my favorite scenes...

** spoiler omitted **

Everyone had good lines, even the extras.

Spoiler:

"Target is angry! Target is VERY ANGRY!"

Plus all the little in character moments.
Tony overriding the Quinjet's audio to play ACDC as he's rushing to the rescue.

"I got that one! The flying monkeys, I got it!"

Thor's love for his brother.

Pepper's banter. "I was having 12% of a moment"

"I'm sorry, that was mean of me. Why don't you put that down and the Other Guy won't come out."

"What? I had him spilling his enitre plan!"

Pretty much anything Loki did.

Pretty much every line out of Clark Gregg's mouth.

And I loved Cap's old fashioned nature. "There's only one G_d ma'am, and he doesn't dress like that."

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

Dude, can I smoke some of that stuff too?


Disclaimer: I havent seen Brinewall Legacy so I know relationship rules only from Jade Regent Player's Guide.

I think that relationship rules should not be connected directly with character level - i.e. no increasing it when advancing level. It should change due to actions, events, gifts, insults, etc and not because character just grew more powerful.


As the original poster should see by now, if there's one problem with Enlarge Person, then that it's actually a little bit too useful. Especially with the usually humungous dungeons that are an artifact of battle grids, being permanently enlarged appears to be a viable option at higher levels.

Being larger-than-life in the literal sense is a bit too silly for my tastes. Higher level fighters running around, no, strike that, flying around, enlarged and invisible is the borderline between epic fantasy and bad superheroics for me.

Just my two groats.


memorax wrote:

As much as some want to deny the power of popular brands they mean something. How many people you know drink a no nane brand type of cola. Very few if almost none. It's either Coca-cola, Pepsi-cola, 7-up or any other brand name soft drink. You have four fast food resturants on a street corner. Two no name brands one a Mcdonalds the other a Harvey. Out of the four the no name branded ones will lose money or not have as many customers.

You think customers don't love their brands. Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/For-God-Country-Coca-Cola-Definitive/dp/0465054684/re f=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1335760576&sr=8-4 look up New coke or do any research on New coke and get back to me. When Coca-Cola released New Coke consumers were screaming bloody murder because many thought Coke had ruined the perennial favorite cola drink. or if Apple went under do you think that all those with Macs would suddnely stop loving their machines and switch to a PC. Fans of the mac and apple products wuld demand that someone buyout apple and keep it going. chances are ti would be Micorsoft because they recognize the power of a brand and the following a popualr one can have.

The Hobby can survive with the D&D brand. It does need it for the visibility, popularity, profitability and just plain customers assuming that anything with a fantasy element is related to D&D.

Irony: not realizing 4e is the "New Coke" of D&D.


Epic Meepo wrote:

You're the only one in this thread who's trying to prove anything, memorax.

The rest of us are just enjoying idle speculation and sharing amusing anecdotes.

Exactly.

This thread sort of feels like a room full of people all talking about a subject and then one guy bursts through the door waving his arms wildly and yelling "you're all being racist! Um, no, no, you're all being ... homophobic, yeah, that's it. No, no, you're all falling for a big alien conspiracy ... yeah, that's what I mean! Everyone stop saying terrible, horrible things that I don't agree with and PAY ATTENTION TO ME! I have very important things to say that you all MUST all listen to and AGREE with!!"

Everyone in the room kind of looks at the guy, blinks a couple times and says ... "but, none of us were saying ANY of those things. We were all just calming talking about something we find interesting. If you'd like to have a seat and join the conversation, you're more than welcomed to ..."

"I SAID, you're all being racist!!!! Um, you're all being ... homophobic, yeah, that's it. Listen to me and AGREE with me! I'm RIGHT and you all are WRONG!!! Everyone stop talking calmly and PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!!"

Seriously man, maybe you might want to take a deep breath or three and calm down.

(RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8)

memorax wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
On a side note, I really wish that the "WotC and its' current products health is crucial for survival and expansion of our hobby, so let's all rally behind the Former Industry Leader!" train of thought would finally hit some bridge and die slowly in flames, because it's silly as hell.
i respectfully disagree. IF wotc crashes and burns who is going to take their place. paizo possibly yet PF does not have the same brand recognition as D&D. Saying that it wont have an effect is also imo silly as hell.

Yup, I mean look at what happened to the computer industry when IBM stopped being the leader. Oh wait...

Well remember how the film and movie industry fell apart when MGM went into receivership? OH, wait...

And look how the home video industry fell apart with the loss of Betamax, then again with the decline of VHS, then again when Lassr discs didn't take off.

And I'm sure everyone remembers how the home video game industry never recovered from the decline of Atari...

And of course, RPGs died when TSR went backrupt.

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

On a side note, I really wish that the "WotC and its' current products health is crucial for survival and expansion of our hobby, so let's all rally behind the Former Industry Leader!" train of thought would finally hit some bridge and die slowly in flames, because it's silly as hell.

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

memorax wrote:
Then again Monte could have just left and said it was for personal reason that no one needed to know about. For me anyway to post what he did was an attempt on his part imo to sabotage 5E. He knew full well what would happenig saying what he did. You don't write what he did unless you wan the product to fail. Hopefully Paizo never hires him. I probably will never ever buy anything with his name on it ever again.

If you leave for "personal reasons", people are left wondering if you were harassed at work or if your boss didn't try to hit on your wife.

Now what you are doing is trashing Monte, and that's not really nice.


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Platosbeard wrote:
Thanis Kartaleon wrote:

I feel like I shouldn't contribute to this monster, but I must. Scout replaces Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge, which the Ninja has, so there's no conflict there. It's an alternate class of Rogue, which is just an archetype writ large. I don't see why a Ninja couldn't be a Scout.

Alternate Classes: "Alternate classes are standalone classes whose basic ideas are very close to established base classes, yet whose required alterations would be too expansive for an archetype. An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save that a character who takes a level in an alternate class can never take a level in its associated class—a samurai cannot also be a cavalier, and vice versa."

A ninja cannot be a scout or any rogue variant.

If the GM allows it then it's OK. A lot of GMs probably would allow it. it depends on whether the OP's GM will, though.

Yes, and if the GM allows it everyone gets colossal dragons as mounts that poop gems and an illithid manservant with at-will Meteor Swarm. But when someone says "I don't see a reason why not" and the rules directly say "Here's why not," a GM fiat is probably the only way out of it.

EDIT:
I don't mean to seem rude, but I don't know any GMs that would allow it. It's the equivalent of taking level 1 twice in the same class. Some might allow a rogue and a ninja in the same campaign, but not for the same character.

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

True WotC Fan on Monte joining:

"Yay, Monte Cook, the legend, is on the team! This bodes so well for the game! Shows how open to new ideas WotC is!"

True WotC Fan on Monte leaving:

"Meh, 3ed was a mess, Monte's kind of cranky, so glad to see him go!"

Silver Crusade (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)


Dwarfs don't get any new rules, feats, or archetypes. It's just 2-4 pages full of ale recipes.

Silver Crusade (Paizo Superscriber, Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber)

Well I suppose i can only really speak for myself.

I have asked friends of mine who play lots of 4E D&D as well as Pathfinder how they feel about 5th edition coming out and the answer i have most often run across is " cautiously optimistic".

I began playing D&D with the "red box" in the late 80's. I played 1st Ed, 2nd ed, 3e and 3.5E.

I tried 4E for 6 months after it came out, and me and my gaming group didn't find it to be our cup of tea, so we went back to 3.5. Then we discovered Rise of the Rune Lords, then Pathfinder Beta, then The Pathfinder Role playing game. We haven't looked back.

I have stuck with Pathfinder. Interestingly, for myself, this will be the first time I am "outside" of an edition transition of D&D. I suppose one could say, regarding the transition between 4.0 D&D and 5.0 D&D, that "i don't have a dog in that fight".

I do have a passing interest in what WOTC will put out for 5.0 D&D, and i will probably pick up a copy of the rule books off of the shelf at a book store, to see what is there, but unless, i am very impressed and like what i see, I will put that book back on the book shelf move down the shelf, and pick up the Pathfinder books on the shelf.

just my two cents.


I don't talk trash about 4e. But, this is a message board mostly dedicated to a company and a game a lot of 4e fans talk trash about. Heck, a ton of people joined here during the edition change because they were bashed other places (most notably rpgnet, enworld and WotC forums) for not getting on board with 4e.

So, honestly, a lot of people are, being petty human being types, going to take it out here. I'm sure a vast majority of the posters here wouldn't mind the 4e forum going away all together. But part of Paizo's business is selling all kinds of non-Paizo stuff, and, unlike a lot of companies (in any industry), they actually listen to and try to accommodate all of their customers.

Continually telling the 4e haters to stfu or whatever it is y'all think you're trying to accomplish is pointless. Ignore them or talk around them. Engaging them doesn't do anything but make them go harder in the paint.

And, dude, this is a geek forum on the internet. Raging is par for the course. Hell, I've seen flame wars on some of the cooking sites I go to make this look civil.


memorax wrote:
houstonderek wrote:


Quite a bit of their marketing leading up to, and shortly after the release of, including a bunch of their YouTube videos, was pretty dismissive of (and occasionally insulting to) old school gamers.

Their marketing could have been better yet your still have not convinced me that while very annoying is proof postive that they intended to disrespect anyone. Since some people are bothered by the ads some are not. It's not universal across the board. One can say "well they bother me" except your not the representive of the entire fanbase. As for the ads it's years after the fact at this point get over it. Seriously. If your still bothered by and ad that you saw years ago you need to find something that is truly bothersome to worry about. Like world hunger or the fight against cancer.

Those ads as far as I'm concerned are not any worse than people coming into a 5E thread and saying that 4E sucks. Or bashing 5E when they have no desire to play let alone buy 5E. The irony is either lost or ingnored by many posters.

No, the irony is a bunch of 4e fans crying about WotC making the edition change, abandoning 4e, and sounding exactly like 3x fans did four years ago.

Oh, and go on WotC's boards and try to have a civil Pathfinder discussion. Or, you know, find me the Pathfinder subforum where I can have any discussion about the game. The 4e subforum here is a small island in a sea of people who are enjoying a ton of schadenfreude right now, after having four years of smug 4e fans talking trash about Pathfinder and Paizo. On the Paizo boards.

See, that 4e fans don't understand THAT is irony.

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Joes Pizza wrote:
That said, why does a fighter need to be ultra specialized in a weapon to know all it's tricks?

He doesn't, but it helps. If any fighter picks up a lucern hammer, for example, he can hit with it, trip with it, and all that jazz.

Joes Pizza wrote:
So, why is the best martial type unable to pick up any weapon and be amazing at it?

Define amazing, first. Do you mean 'better than any other full BAB class'? If so, then provided the fighter has Weapon Training in the class of weapon he picks up, he WILL be better than a paladin or ranger or barbarian with that weapon without having invested any feats at all.

If you mean 'as good as the most brilliant user of the weapon in question ever was' then forget it. As long as there are other fighters out there that want to dedicate themselves to being the best {insert weapon here}-wielder ever, they will always be better. And why shouldn't they? Part of the fighter's design is to enable fighters to become the best swordsman ever, or the best axe-wielder on the planet, whatever, and a fighter who dedicates himself purely to doing so should be better with that particular weapon than the one that doesn't.

(Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

Joes Pizza wrote:

.I look at it from the perspective that a Ranger's favored enemy bonus doesn't work with only his combat style, a barbarian's rage powers do not only work with 1 weapon, just as a paladin's smite evil does not work with only his diety's favored weapon.

That said, why does a fighter need to be ultra specialized in a weapon to know all it's tricks?

To me, the fighter is the wizard of all things martial. He should be able to do more than any other martial class. He has the potential to do more, but only with one weapon.

It's called "weapon training". That's an incredibly powerful ability that doesn't get nearly as much love as it deserves.

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber)

You can go all 20 levels and not pick up any feats that tie you down to one specific weapon or style, if you really wanted. You could take (not in any particular order) dodge, mobility, step up, power attack, combat expertise, improved initiative, toughness, diehard, critical focus, quick draw, iron will, flanking foil, gang up, lunge, opening volley, disruptive, improved critical, spellbreaker, combat reflexes, stand still, spring attack, strike back, following step, step up and strike, vital strike, whirlwind attack, and/or cleave, and very few of those would limit your choices in combat. (I'd also recommend point-blank and precise shot at some point to open up ranged combat options)

You would also have a bunch of different options on what to do each round. Most of those are pretty decent feats, too.

The issue is that you're a generalist fighter now, good at working with a bunch of different weapons and adapting your style to a particular situation. You will perform decently in every situation. However, you'll never be as good at dealing damage as the fighter who has spent his entire career perfecting his mastery of his chosen ridiculously large two handed sword and has spent all of his feats to do more damage with it. You won't have the AC of a shield specialist. You won't shut down encounters like a polearm wielding trip-master.

On the plus side, the trip-master is useless against incorporeal creatures, oozes, giant centipedes, flying creatures, snakes...

Just my thoughts on the subject.

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Foghammer wrote:

And if you are anything like me, chances are you'll just hand wave racial requirements on most stuff. More diversity that way.

Unless you play PFS. Then I feel sorry for you, with the stricter rules and all.

That's also why I let fighters in my game cast 9th level wizard spells. More diversity that way.

(Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber)

Of course. The whole point of the racial archetypes are that very specific races get cool things that no other race can get.

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