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Goblin Squad Member. 2,693 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists.


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Goblin Squad Member

Gayel Nord wrote:
The lowlands... Does that mean that we will have sometime flood?

I think it's more that this is part of the (very large) West Sellen River's flood plain, which is therefore good farm-land and looks as such. Secondly the more detailed map blog shows swampland too, again a different type of hex.

I don't think there will be any flooding and there won't seem to be any weather that affects the game world either, but over time crowdforging and or future directions "anything is possible" as it were albeit that list is huge, naturally.

Finally it does mean probably in terms of future, that being near a water-way if boats are ever added as a major update, those hexes will be located to take advantage of that, being near the river.

Gayel Nord wrote:
I have just noticed, where is the west of the map? You know with the imodeae settlement and the river.
Gayel Nord wrote:
a written legend will be helpful to read the map.

Hopefully you caught the latest update: Goblinworks blog: A More Detailed Map

Très bien?

Goblin Squad Member

Diella wrote:
Something I noticed that I did not see picture on the legend in a couple of hexes 00.11- 00.15 and 01.10-01.13 there is a icon of a camp fire. what does that stand for.
Lee previously had bonfires all over the place to indicate general wilderness hexes. It looked like the world was on fire. I suspect he cleared them all out for simplicity and missed a few. :)
Pax Keovar wrote:
They've added mountains in the middle of the forests.

One of the things I noticed in a large part of the world is that a lot of land is quite "mountainous without really appearing on maps as mountains. Ie smaller mountains effective. I kinda see the current PFO map like that. The mountains only appear because the GW put a magnifying glass over the area and voila it's more rich in geographical information and topological variation than a high-level view.

Just a sort of reaction I've had for this from the beginning and why it does not surprise me... to lead into another question I can see why the devs confirmed speed does not change that much for game purposes, but in RL speed varies a lot going through woods, mountains compared to clear open roads and plains. Still maybe that can be reviewed in light of other systems in a few years time or perhaps the effects of variable distance and locality vs global travel would be put into proper relief with a much expanded map...

Goblin Squad Member

The gods have spoken!

Goblin Squad Member

I've got to admit I get a little excited hearing how dangerous PFO will be from both mobs and players - and hence the necessity of groups of players will be very important a lot of the time in the wilds.

When you have several groups deciding whether to attack each other then it's possibly a bit more down to group choices being made:

1. Who has the most?
2. Who's land is this anyway?
3. Who are they?
4. What should we do: Bail for reinforcements, warn them, ask their intentions, fight etc.

Goblin Squad Member

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Be interested to see the interplay of groups + hexes + territory claimed vs unclaimed.

That interplay will lead to some groups allying/treating with other groups so as to focus on securing area and harassing other groups more effectively when their paths cross. Then hopefully a strong enough group will have a secured area and that then pitches the risk vs reward choice a player will have to make.

If the above sort of pattern unfolds, the allying/treaty/negotiation stage seems the most powerful factor given there will be many groups and possibly locally evenly matched dispersing away from out-matched in a given area!

Goblin Squad Member

Diella wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:
I have a character concept that would be something like Judi Dench in The Chronicles of Riddick: Going around as some sort of Diplomat - possibly with vast reserves available for bounties should these duties be interrupted... though in all honesty I think I'm too hot-headed to be a good diplomat, it's really the threat of a large bounty and "diplomatic immunity" to swan around using diplomatic passport across borders, that does it for me. :p

My solo character concept is molded after Kwai Chang Caine (Kung Fu TV series) who I intend to be a Lawful Good Monk who travels the River Kingdoms and heals / protects anyone in need.

I will train him in gathering (herbs) and crafting (healing salves and other remedies) and then search for injured players to aid. This is why I was so glad to here about the pre-death state as a feature.

Unlike Ryan, I believe that this type of character may have an easier time surviving solo because he would not be carrying great wealth. More importantly, he may be seen as universally beneficial as long as he heals those in need, regardless of any of their labels ( Name, company, settlement, kingdom, faction, Deity, alignment, reputation level, etc).

I have a very similar idea for my main character. Although it not really based around a solo concept since I sure she will be willing to group with anyone. Traveling herbalist based off a character from a series I read long ago.

That's v cool: I hope the devs are able to add lots of herbs and flower species, I was only the other day out hunting for wild orchids. I hope you got some herbs for your bday, then!?

Goblin Squad Member

Iatronas wrote:

Since there are plans to allow road-creation that will affect the Map(mentioned above), I would also suggest other implements higher on the "settlement creation and expansion" research tree. Such as the ability to affect the terrain - building a bridge, tunneling a path through to a hex, building barricades/walls, create a moat, move boulder/rocks, build a new cavern, etc.

Over time, I could even see over-resource cultivation changing a hex from one type to another (grassland -> rough/Badland). It does almost sound Minecraft-like, but I think it would certain encourage players/alliances to create, build and customize their settlement and manage the governed hexes around them (with an associated 'settlement point' upkeep cost as well).

I know this tune: Crowdforging! Some solid ideas above: Particularly the bridge over water possibility (may even coincide with roads) Changing hexes character is a daring idea: The cascade/knock-on effects would need careful consideration. Weather is another pet favorite for me.

Goblin Squad Member

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I think it's just the order of propositions, and those being conflated by statements:

Zandari wrote:
The first time my level 4 self gets murdered by a level 12 jerkwad in this game will be the last time you get any of my money, so how do I or you go about making sure that I can get the most out of this game and visit all the neat parts of the world without feeling like there are just d@$%$eads out there waiting to murder newbies?

1. Do you mind dying by a mob?

2. Do you mind dying if the mob is actually another player but it was fair combat and fun?
3. Do you mind if you lose something when you die as a result of 2.?
4. Do you mind if you die and were not expecting it but reflecting it was a fair combat even if a bit less fun losing stuff and being out-smarted?
5. Do you mind if dying to other players is fairly regular if your group is at war and "anything goes" is therefore allowed?

I don't really know where a player might find it acceptable or where the line is drawn. I also think experiences of other mmorpgs colour the above and that further makes it impossible to tell what a player is really asking and what they'll tolerate or expect they'll tolerate which might both be mis-aligned.

I certainly think: There's incentive to combat other players under a good number of given conditions as there are not to combat other players under other conditions (I'm going to lose or I'm going to lose reputatation etc).

Battling over that map sure looks like a lot of fun to me however just as securing all the resources of a hex and maximizing extraction without a drop of blood spilt does too knowing the alternative conditions!

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Urman wrote:
If Brighthaven/TEO has a group harvesting nodes in a skymetal hex, those harvesters might be getting some good wealth. A competing settlement or company might enter into PvP legitimately, and the two groups might kill each other early and often. This is fine, working as intended.

I don't see that as the likely scenario Zandari was concerned about.

Zandari wrote:
The first time my level 4 self gets murdered by a level 12 jerkwad in this game...
This sounds to me more like the concern of a "New Player trying to learn the game" being killed by a character at the "Heroic Adventurer" power level who gains nothing from it but the joy of tears and rage. To respond to that concern with "you will be killed early and often, get used to it" seems out of place to me. I would have expected something more along the lines of "the more risk you take, the more reward you'll receive, but if you deliberately play to minimize your risk, you should experience significantly less random player killing in PFO than you should expect in most other Open PvP games".

Ryan said something about the way mmorpgs evolved was that death just became a common thing. Hence it seems what's being said is that combat and winning or losing and therefore dying at the hands of other players is just one of the norms. In fact combat as we all know is a big part of interaction and fun:

[...] You need to think about other players as being a part of the world just like wandering monsters. They're predators, and if you venture out alone you're the prey.

Massively Multiplayer games gain value and become a unique and distinctive kind of experience when they maximize human interaction. There are lots of ways to play sword & sorcery games by oneself. MMOs are not designed for that kind of experience. If you want an MMO where you don't have to worry about being attacked by other players that's what most theme park games have specialized in.

Pathfinder Online's sandbox design means that interactions with other players, sometimes via combat, will be an ever-present part of the experience.

There will be characters who will go alone into the wilderness to explore. Those explorers will always be in danger. That danger will often come from the knowledge that if they are detected by other players, they're probably going to die. But if the rewards for solo exploration are sufficient (both qualitative and quantitative), people will do it. I think those rewards will be sufficient.

I think the risk vs reward then kicks in with:

In EVE, since everything is disposable, you are warned to "only fly what you can afford to lose". This is a very tough rule to learn for people who are used to MMOs where dying is a time-sink, not a resource-sink. It takes some people quite a while to figure out that if they have 1,000 dollars, buying a 1,000 dollar ship is a huge mistake. They should buy ten 100 dollar ships instead, and expect to lose all of them - which is OK, as long as while losing them they make the equivalent of at least 1,000 dollars.

Thus it's OK that there is a continuum of quality in very fine-grained increments for most things. Because you don't just buy "the best" thing when you can - that's foolish. Instead you have to constantly make a calculation about risk - how much can I afford to risk on this ship/ship fitting, vs. how much reward do I expect to gain while I use it?

Once you figure out how to calculate "afford to lose", EVE becomes a game that makes a lot more sense.

Goblin Squad Member

I just thought under the conditions of a character who stands apart. For me, I'm likely to enjoy operating effectively in a team as part of a larger network of operations coordinating.

But given a need and a will I don't see how such concepts would not be entirely possible!

Goblin Squad Member

I have a character concept that would be something like Judi Dench in The Chronicles of Riddick: Going around as some sort of Diplomat - possibly with vast reserves available for bounties should these duties be interrupted... though in all honesty I think I'm too hot-headed to be a good diplomat, it's really the threat of a large bounty and "diplomatic immunity" to swan around using diplomatic passport across borders, that does it for me. :p

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Nightdrifter wrote:
How does transition from hex to hex work? Is it a loading screen each time you cross a hex border? Can you only cross between adjacent hexes at certain points or anywhere on the border (assuming no geographic chokepoints)?
There's no transition. You can't even see the boundaries except for some geographical features that follow them. It's totally seamless.

Thank goodness, I was dreading 'loading screen per hex' answer. That is a big feather in the cap for sure. The tech peeps are working their magic.

Stephen Cheney wrote:
These should hopefully make the choice of a location more interesting than just what resources are nearby and where your friends are.

That does improve things I think as well, creating more areas with localism of interesting and different features (trade routes or defensible hexes (siege engines and/or armies way down the line) as well as resources) per settlement hex.

Very exciting.

Goblin Squad Member

That's a solid description and explanation, thanks. I was labouring under the assumption of "no choke" points still, bar the foothills.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm still scratching my head too (and getting saw-dust in my fingers). For example looking at F and C in the NW of the map, it would appear there is no major:

Stephen Cheney wrote:
Lee says there's some elevation change even between plains and regular forests, hence the Xs between those.

elevations so you mean:

1 There CAN BE some elevation changes between terrain hexes from plain->forest but not always, and where there are an "X" indicates so.

2 If so, then as per Nihimon above, is it just the contiguous hills that are affected by the local elevation change (assuming so as there's only on e "X" nearby)?

3 Pics or fly-by vid to visualize all this?

Goblin Squad Member

That raises a question: I wonder if hex type changes/influences movement speed?

@Nihimon, I'm sure you've noted Lee mentioning in the blog having a settlement on an ecological/geographical edge conveys obviously access to different resources albeit less of one type than fully surrounded and possibly more coveted by more players.

On another topic, this Game of Thrones interactive map seems like an interesting way to present the history of PFO one day, in a similar presentation method with sliding time-scale for recording links to wiki.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
I'm confused about the Passes / Choke Points (marked with a big white X) on the map. There are too many transitions for every transition to be impassable unless an X is present. It might make it easier to understand if the X were situated on the border that's actually passable, or if impassable borders were bolded.
I agree for the "X" that are placed in forest hexes or the one on the far western area that us in the hilly plains. Can a forest be so dense that it is impassable?

This confused me, so trying to puzzle it out, what seems to be the case:

1. As Lee said before about sometimes adding a different hex to mix a type of hex terrain type up eg a few ligh-green and beige in the forest hexes.

2. My guess, I suppose the random "X" 's that are NOT hill-forest (surrounding mountain type hexes) type hexes are indicating an elevation change or scree/formation in that hex requiring a choke point?

If so then they would surely be dark green? So maybe that guess is incorrect too?

Might need the devs to clarify those "X" 's.

Goblin Squad Member

Tyncale wrote:
at some point, porkbellies may fetch a higher price then skymetal! Well, maybe not.

*Laughs for the 2nd time in quick succession*.

Some more explanation on the meteor strikes would be interesting.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
I predict soon the server population will be so flooded with both Vampires and Werewolves, World of Darkness might have been an unnecessary project because ESO is the new WOD!


I can easily imagine the prestige of the few players who have this cool option and ability to play the game in an interesting and different manner that brings immersion for others too. Of course it's all supply-demand dependent, but the emergent gameplay is telling too (DawnGuard lol) that then adds another layer of enjoyment to the game.

I suppose this emergence is good for exploration and discovery of a sort that was asked about at the future of... panel albeit by indirectly changing the game world or what the player might expect to meet in any given corner?

Goblin Squad Member

Somewhat unrelated but on the theme of vampires and werewolves: The Strange Economy of Werewolves and Vampires in Elder Scrolls Online

Goblin Squad Member

I think this might be one of the most eye-popping blogs yet: Very visual and very engaging.

Some of the points that stuck out for me:

> Different POI's
> Choke points on mountains is really interesting diversity; assume these also create blocks to passage around these regions, again quite interesting?! So no "as the crow flies" around these then. Similarly with bodies of water? Good to see one was indicated. I did not see rivers however? How does water work: Drinking/resource/barrier?
> NPC hexes network could turn out to be a popular feature (like a beach with shark nets!)
> more terrain types eg Swamp makes for an exciting world.
> Hexes with a nod to the future content is a great idea to vary things up as content possibilities change/increase and/or hybridize sandbox (80%) and themepark (20%).

Great and clear presentation Lee! Thanks.

This certainly spices up the decision-making for "Land Rush!!"

However as major questions are answered, many smaller questions move in: Do you choose a hex near the center (more connected?) or near the border (nearer expansion to new lands?

I know you devs are hiding a blog on crafting materials now (and which hexs they're in and what they contribute towards)...

Goblin Squad Member

Hmm, will the devs go over how the servers form the map under the scenes and how boundaries will be dealt with and how load-balancing and what player-density per hex type devs are aiming at?

Also travel times exp. and travel speed, total area, topology and info players can find from the map... to add to Bludd's wishlist.

Edit: @Nihimon: I hope that's a given!

Also devs: The challenges of single shard world/map

Goblin Squad Member

The server-farm thing sounds good for escalations one day.

On the "mystery" question: I thought the work-around would be instanced discoveries? So EQN might do it via digging underground, PFO via finding a dungeon instance (overground or underground) temporary point reference portal on the map? Different means and different places providing different dungeons.

Goblin Squad Member

Pax Areks wrote:
Ryan Dancey wrote:

The Repopulation rep said in his response "nobody knows what the Repopulation is". I wanted to give him a chance to fix that.

I think the WildStar rep took a minute to realize I wasn't disparaging his game.

No, for me it was just the way it came off. You have to admit, Ryan, sometimes you can give the illusion that you are in your own little world.

So when the question was asked, I was semi-paying attention, I face palmed before I got what you were doing... which was allowing him the opportunity to plug his game, which happens to be a sandbox with settlement warfare of a different genre. I hit rewind and caught your delivery intent the second time around.

My thoughts were simultaneously, "Ryan HAS to know what Repop is." and "Of course Ryan and only Ryan would have no idea what Repop is."

It was a comedic moment for me, even if that was not your intent, which by the way, was very admirable of you.

It was high courtesy to assume ignorance to offer someone a chance to elaborate to the audience. Of course it opens up to appearing "ignorant" and not as what it actually was, an invitation.

Anyways it's good to see the panel interact "off-script" on these sorts of things.

Goblin Squad Member

A much better panel than sometimes happens.

Diversity of views, approaches is good imo. I think the devs put the effort in and the questioners asked on useful topics.

Could be a promising future: Helps there were some interesting titles that differ from each other being represented.

Think Ryan added a lot of energy to the panel and oc very informative atst.

Goblin Squad Member

Yeah, PFO, WoD, Star Citizen and Shards Online seem to have interesting designs to me. So losing one of them just leaves already few even less. I think PFO has a good chance to assume that mantle however.

Goblin Squad Member

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CCP Games halts development of World of Darkness MMO


CCP Games today announced that they have cancelled the World of Darkness massively multiplayer online (MMO) game project in development in their Atlanta, GA studio.

As a result of the change, 56 employees of the Atlanta studio have lost their jobs. Some team members have been offered roles on other projects inside the company, and CCP has provided severance packages and job placement assistance for those affected.

The remaining team in Atlanta will focus on games in the EVE Universe, which will mark the first time since 2006 that the entirety of CCP will be working on a single universe.

CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar Pétursson:

The decision to end the World of Darkness MMO project is one of the hardest I’ve ever had to make. I have always loved and valued the idea of a sandbox experience set in that universe, and over the years I’ve watched the team passionately strive to make that possible.

I would like to give special thanks to everyone who worked so hard to make the World of Darkness MMO a reality, especially the team members affected by this decision. Their considerable contribution to CCP will not be forgotten, and we wish them well.

To our current and former employees and fans of World of Darkness, I am truly sorry that we could not deliver the experience that we aspired to make. We dreamed of a game that would transport you completely into the sweeping fantasy of World of Darkness, but had to admit that our efforts were falling regretfully short. One day I hope we will make it up to you.

Although this was a tough decision that affects our friends and family, uniting the company behind the EVE Universe will put us in a stronger position moving forward, and we are more committed than ever to solidify EVE as the biggest gaming universe in the world.

Just goes to show: Started in 2006; experience and cutting edge developer yet still failed to get the game past development. Realize CCP was probably juggling too many balls and not a big publisher to bankroll them all.

Well done Goblinworks on getting this far in such a short space of time in such a challenging genre. Seems a shame to see all the work on WoD go to waste.

Goblin Squad Member

I think you can watch live the panel here: > Albatross Theater - Schedule > SATURDAY > 04:30pm - - The Future of Online Games

Admittedly these panels can sometimes be more about the publicity than the games or genre.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm very impressed with the realism direction for eg of Gloria Victus. I hope Pathfinder with it's somewhat stylized art canon can veer thata way.

Goblin Squad Member

Audible is the only quality that matters, Decius, if it's available early which you managed!

Maybe Ryan will mention where they are with Alpha and the time-span to reach it in the panel. Timing seems to align nicely this year. We'll know soon enough. The Repopulation (Joshua Halls) guy might be worth listening too: They're doing well on a budget too.

Goblin Squad Member

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A couple of panels at Pax East:

FRIDAY 4/11 3:00PM - 4:00PM (Boston MA: timeanddate): What Is Happening to Tabletop Roleplaying Games?

SATURDAY 4/12 4:30PM - 5:30PM (pax-east time): - The Future of Online Games

= will probably post the video online a day or two later for their panel (I'll post it here when it's up). Just in case anyone is going/interested beforehand.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm fine with the devs stepping in as referees in the game. They can take a dramatic approach to "refereeing" and assume an Iconic persona to deliver inscrutable over-rules or a cataclysmic "the gods are angry" deus ex machina manner.

Golarion should be unlike our own world afterall... ;)

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
If you're being attacked by one or more characters in melee range, and your target is not one of those characters, I think you should take significant penalties to both your attack and your defense.

Yes: The "overwhelmed" rule that sits between skirmish formation (ie non-formation) and formation itself ranked.

This would be the logical leap from those simple rules above. Anyway that's the theory.

I suppose devs have only concentrated on what is effectively skirmish (free/non-formation) to get that system going (no work on formation and how they tie up). But multiple attackers penalty would still be do-able at this stage of combat unless you can select to be a skirmish with fellows in a vicinity that modifies "surrounded".

Wonder how the devs have approach this?

Goblin Squad Member

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Think Bludd has drawn blood on this topic. ;) (pun so bad it's good?)

Here's an idea however for argument's sake:

1. Melee Rule: Must target nearest opponent
2. Engaged Rule: If engaged must face opponent if in engagement space

3. Ranged: If on even ground and LOS cannot target those behind in a field of view within range.
4. If on "high ground" can select target within range

I think those simple rules if combined with:

5. Formations that change the rules somewhat

Could make for interesting combat in theory.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks for hinting Paul! I share H2Osw 's sentiments that it's a system that easily sounds organic but implemented can seem like just another reduce the meter on these things to zero or until the timer runs out experience.

Goblin Squad Member

Lee Hammock wrote:
If no one deals with an escalation cycle and its home hex's strength goes over a certain threshold, that escalation cycle has "won."

I was wondering about the win-condition for escalation monsters. Now how about the win-condition tying in with for example killing x number of players boosting their strength or destroying x number of outposts? Ie more direct antagonism on local player activity (hunt and destroy behaviour)?

Goblin Squad Member

Valthalion wrote:

well there are times when i would love to take a break from work and read a bit of developer news...however, that doesnt work in a crowded office environment.

i was wondering how long it would take for before a+++@&# would response as you did...

It was a joke if were confused by the lack of emoticon to signal text joking. I have the benefit of course of knowing some of the forum'ers online persona personality. ;)

The rationale for the devs to do vlogs:

1) Near alpha they posted for people to ask questions about subjects that are in the alpha and the Early Enrollment and ask nested questions on a single topic (ie funnel questions).
2) The vlog is a more open-discussion forum for communication
3) It's showing the personal side to the dev team so we get "to know them".
4) It's a change so freshens things up.
5) Suspect it takes a bit less work as the devs crunch to alpha Milestone 6 are we now?

Anyway I hope that rationalizes why they're doing these instead of the written blogs which were great to read, I agree with you on that. In the last one someone transcribed it (Pax Shane Gifford? iirc). Maybe someone will do the same here. I quite like listening a subsequent time on hear everything.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks for sharing the "behind the scenes" stuff Goblinworks, that's kinda important to me/really enjoy these snapshots/sharing with backers.

Goblin Squad Member

We got a very good small future description for dungeons (above) and this article reminded me of it which might be of interest: Bake Your Own 3D Dungeons With Procedural Recipes

Goblin Squad Member

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Just browsing up on Druids and apparently they have "their own faith"... I like that, so called "druidic faith"; sounds like faith beyond faith?!

Goblin Squad Member

Hello Harneloot: You may find the Nihimonicon of use also,

Pathfinder Online Prelaunch Questions

Q: When is Pathfinder Online coming out?

We are planning to begin Alpha testing in the 2nd Quarter of 2014.

We are planning to begin Early Enrollment in the 3rd Quarter of 2014.

Open Enrollment is scheduled for early in 2016.

Q: What is Early Enrollment?

Q: What is Open Enrollment?

Alpha = Backers >1,000$ (any above, incl.)

Early Enrollment = Backers >100$ from the Kickstarter (month 1) OR >100$ from the goblinworks store eg Goblin Squad Pioneer—Month Two

There's no "traditional beta". See: "Q: What is Early Enrollment" & "Q: What is Crowdforging?" You can also:

Open Enrollment = Goblin Squad Open Enrollment from the store. See time-line given in the faq above = 2016 or about ~18 months from EE start.

Open Enrollment will be open to all.


What is Crowdforging?

Crowdforging is a commitment from Goblinworks to the Pathfinder community to engage directly, continuously, and meaningfully on all aspects of the Pathfinder Online project. Some examples of this will include ways for the community to vote on matters involving the direction, scope and pacing of development, systems to provide feedback on the design as it progresses, two-way communication between the community and the developers to ensure transparency, player councils who will represent the whole community and be consulted on a wide variety of matters both involving the design and the development of the community itself, and regular, formal communication to the community from Goblinworks that will track the progress of the game and identify places where community input is desired. Unlike a lot of traditional game designs that are delivered nearly feature-complete and where feedback from players is limited to bug hunting and mechanical balancing, Pathfinder Online will have a much more community-driven development process. Many game features will be developed and implemented based on prioritization choices made by the community and they will be added to the game through a process of continuous iteration during Beta - the Crowdforgers who are Early Enrollees will be involved not only in playing the game but in shaping its very nature.

Even after Release this process will continue and the community will remain fully engaged with the development team as we shift from building basic systems towards adding additional content and making refinements and improvements to the game.

Goblin Squad Member

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Lifedragn wrote:
Sadurian wrote:

I believe it has been mentioned that the deities themselves will be background fluff, and are unlikely to have any game effect. The alignment options are probably going to be more important.

I'm not looking to follow a major deity as such. I'm happy just recognising the various animistic nature spirits.

It would probably never happen, but I would LOVE to see developers take on the role of such figures as the avatars of deities, important faction NPCs, or other "background" powers. I've always been a fan of the sort of dynamic events that could be spawned from such figures of power. A lot of folks may feel that it takes away from player agency to build such things themselves, but I view it as an additive experience rather than subtracting from it. Further discussion would probably warrant a new topic if anyone wanted to talk or speculate on the possibilities.
Such a device was referred to by Horace in his Ars Poetica, vv. 191-92, where he instructs poets that they should never resort to a "god from the machine" to resolve their plots "unless a difficulty worthy a god's unraveling should happen."

I see it as another device in the devs tool-kit "beyond the understanding of mere mortals". Sure it could be rare or it could be like some of the Ancient Greek Myths where the gods/goddesses fought on either side during the siege of Troy.

Goblin Squad Member

I was reading an article the other day about a game that uses time-reversal as a core game-mechanic. To sell the long-story short: It led to some wonderful chaos of meddling with time within a game world via 1 time-line then adding a second time-line in sync then a third... and more!

In Pathfinder Online on a similar theme of breaking the laws of our world: I'd like to see the deities affect the game world as a world where metaphysics interacts with the physical nature of the world in weird and wonderful ways.

This would mean that deities are more than just fluff and are interactive/functional parts of gameplay with indirect affects on players (you pick deity x you get boon y) as well as direct effects on the game world perhaps independent of players (ie the devs cook up something behind the scenes).

So I hope there is a hook for our characters to integrate in game terms with the concept of deities. And on that basis I would choose a deity that affects the "spiritual welfare" of my character's place in the world aka My character's thoughts: "What's in it for me?"

Goblin Squad Member

Pax Shane Gifford wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:
@Devs: If the injury is to the head, does it knock out your targetting ability/accuracy until healed perhaps is a form of injury that could be used?; perhaps leg would be loss of movement or reduced movement and arm changing which skills not use-able and body/trunk affects stamina/power and hp rates/total refill? I mean all of these could be forms of debuff identified by which part of your body is injured. Don't know what spirit injury could do if that is another tag for type of injury debuff.
They went over why they didn't want to do a system like that; basically adding a bunch of smaller debuffs like that would make combat generally more confusing, and if you get a debuff for each crit then each debuff has to be relatively weak so that crit builds aren't super strong (or else they would have to be powerful and rare, which goes back to their point of randomly losing fights being unfun). So then you have a whole bunch of minor debuffs clogging up the buff bar, and it's harder to figure out exactly what's happening due to crits as a result. If it's consolidated into a single bar, with a single set of debuffs, then it is easier for the players to understand the consequences of injuries and respond to them appropriately.

I guess that is more robust. But I would have liked to have the interplay between different attacks targetting different injuries. Oh well it could be imagined that head-feet combo > any other combo I suppose...

So maybe the debuffs are variable instead of constant in the new system?

Goblin Squad Member

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I can't find any errors personally. But in terms of "Goblinworks/Pathfinder in the news!" and links to articles that Ryan's taken time to do [4 pillars of PFO, differences between TT and MMO game-making, Crowdforging, expectation setting, pricing models, sandboxes, pvp original sin, MVP], that sort of section might be quite good to add as it shows interaction and dissemination (healthy sign of activity I think):

"Here's one I made earlier": Recent-Distant sorting:

Massively: Pathfinder Online's Ryan Dancey on crowdforging a 'minimum viable product' Pathfinder Online Interviews: We Want to Under Promise and Over Deliver Pathfinder Online’s Ryan Dancey Defends Elder Scrolls Online and Subscriptions

Massively: Pathfinder's Dancey on the 'broken AAA themepark financial model'

Warcry: Tabletop to Desktop: Making Wizards Work in Pathfinder Online

Forbes: An Interview With 'Pathfinder Online' Developer Ryan Dancey

Youtube: PaizoConPathfinderOnlinePresentation


Also checking over the GenCon Slide Presentation, there's a lot there that would look wonderful on the website:

1. At some stage a panoramic view in-game (there's an early screen-grab showing the potential here).
2. Some of the concept art -> in-game asset process flow-diagram at some stage to show some dev output again would show how Goblinworks are making PFO. Making of section can be good? The concept pic of settlement is very "stirring". I suppose these get people's expectations up but atst fire the imagination; so a balance as per from concept to sketch to in-game asset is a good way to present things possibly (fair and inspiring atst)? Similarly the color art of the character clothes is very inspiring I think.
3. A bit more lore on pathfinder could go down well with TT-RPG fans interested in mmos maybe.
4. The map of the region of this world would be excellent if it shows the density of information that players interact with via gamesystems, imo too as a top-level grasp of how the game intends to work/be played. Harad's map already taps into this in some ways.

Goblin Squad Member

But we still wanted to have an impetus that drives you back to town and forces you to make choices about if you can take this fight or not. So we've basically built up the injury system as this: over time, your injuries will build up as you get more and more critical hits, to the point that you really should get a cleric to heal you (which we'll get to in a minute) or you should get back to town and get rid of them [the injuries] in another fashion, such as hanging out in a tavern or doing something else.

Big fan of this idea to cycle back to town after your avatar starts to degrade seriously via injury.

@Devs: If the injury is to the head, does it knock out your targetting ability/accuracy until healed perhaps is a form of injury that could be used?; perhaps leg would be loss of movement or reduced movement and arm changing which skills not use-able and body/trunk affects stamina/power and hp rates/total refill? I mean all of these could be forms of debuff identified by which part of your body is injured. Don't know what spirit injury could do if that is another tag for type of injury debuff.

Goblin Squad Member

Sadurian wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:

Would something need to be recorded in audio as soundtrack to play along with instumentation? It would be nice to fill taverns with such perhaps for Bards to "perform" some of their Sir Robin songs along with instruments actually played. Of course you'd need writers and half-good singers, too.

Can there be an option to terminate with extreme prejudice any bard bringing out his lute and strumming the first few bars of 'Stairway to Heaven'? Maybe a 'Heinious' flag...?

I think the rules should be clear: We'd only want actual ballads of the River Kingdoms culture IC songs intended for the instruments and musical culture of this part of Golarion and beyond. I personally enjoy other muscial genres as well, but am not expecting to start up a nine-piece salsa band in the River Kingdoms!

Goblin Squad Member

@Gedichtewicht - Thanks that would appear to be very workable and imo would be great.

One of the potential ways GW can make the core rulebook classes aka Core martial roles in PFO, really stand out is to really enhance the roles they describe such as: Music and books in the case of the bard and the wizard, the military in the case of the fighter presumably eg Soldier roles? And religion for the Clerics, just as druids appear to have interesting nature options (wildshape change to the avatar) and monks have unique "way of the open-hand" combat abilities. These really accentuate the experience of the roles. Hopefully the fun will be coded in by the devs in the combat system itself.

Goblin Squad Member

Being wrote:
Ah! But the Bard's are wont to sing the Ballad of Sir Robin... and they get all the girls!

You're on fire atm Being or maybe you're just posting above "Fiery_Dervish"?

My question is how would it be possible to get audible singing as part of the Bards' musical repetoire? Ballads and Limericks and folk-tunes with Pathfinder pathos and humor and ribaldry and paens etc?

Would something need to be recorded in audio as soundtrack to play along with instumentation? It would be nice to fill taverns with such perhaps for Bards to "perform" some of their Sir Robin songs along with instruments actually played. Of course you'd need writers and half-good singers, too.

Goblin Squad Member

Would Bard be a good role to add in line with more buffs?

Goblin Squad Member

Traianus Decius Aureus wrote:
I feel for the ranger, druid and monk fans out there.

Ranger and Druid are probably two of my favourites but I don't mind waiting if they require/will have extra efforts to make them interesting. In some ways yes but in some ways at least I will experiment a bit with spells and so on and there's always archery too. Overall as we get EE a year early I feel that is a big boon already! :)

Lifedragn wrote:

We do not know that Fighter:Archer skills will be different from Ranger:Archer skills. In fact, I think the safer assumption is that they will not be. Rather there will be Archer skills that are applicable to roles X,Y, and Z. Under the archery subsection, there may be specialty skills, but you should be able to pick up general Archery skills and have them applicable to either Ranger or Fighter. Looking at it from a technical complexity aspect, you want to make as many shared features, such as weapon skill/proficiency as broadly generic as possible and then add your edge cases (Weapon Specialization) around the edges to hone in the flavor. For a ranger, I'd invest in some weapon skills, perception, a touch of stealth, and some non-heavy armor defensive skills. When you run out of ranger-y skills to take, you start banking until they add the role.

Your ideal strategies are going to be looking for those multi-role or otherwise general abilities. Druids and Monks may have the roughest road ahead, but it probably would not hurt for them to pick up some skills that increased Wisdom to make meeting their role-specific pre-requisites easier in the future.

I think this is the sort of "guide-lines" that are very helpful to angle towards eg Ranger or Druid: Gives some thing to work with as well as just go gung-ho! experimenting or saving up xp. Thanks.

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