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AvenaOats's page

Goblin Squad Member. 2,961 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists.


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Goblin Squad Member

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Being wrote:
...which is where I was trying to go, however ineptly or offensively, with what I was saying. We have our part to do, and so much of the 'worth' of PFO will be dependent more on us than on the developer.

Imo one of the USP's of EE PFO will be the great community we find here. Guess I've invested a few years into the community already. :)

Goblin Squad Member

GW need that backbone up and running to get the wheel of growth turning.

Goblin Squad Member

celestialiar wrote:

@ "Tbh I find your communication above not very conducive to discussion it's garbled without pausing to structure a coherent line of thinking,"

Haha, that sucks. I did not mean to confuse you. I guess it was more of the style of writing that "rotates around a common theme." The theme was simply that it's not dynamic and there isn't enough nuance. It's on the 'limited' side of the sandbox spectrum. It seems like the larger parts (the ones you listed) can change, but it breaks down at the parts of parts (and beyond) level. Of course, this is just how I feel.

However, I was able to grasp your post, no need to rehash.

I will speak no more in this thread.

Well you take the suggestion with good humor and put me to rights where I could simply have said "I was confused by some of your commentary", :-). Maybe I'm the one making a meal of things here, hehe, but I notice in mmorpg forums a substantial lack of accurate articulation when players want to discuss what they find lacking in the genre and equally what they grope towards wanting more of. Of course there's sometimes the complete opposite and searing light of clarity of expression and vision breaks through.

Where does such random musings fit into the thread? Well, it could be argued the Carbine devs decided there was a substantial market of players who clearly expressed a desire to play a game such as Wildstar, so much so they were willing to put a business plan together for the above game's budget, which a quick google search indicates was in development for 7 years on a budget of 50-70m$ region. It's not an issue if that cursory spot-check is wrong, the ball-park is more than enough.

Of course the problem seems to be that perhaps the market was smaller than estimated and equally continued to decline over the course of the apparently long development.

So what can be done? Well we see with PFO that it starts small and can iterate development and hence vision over time. I think there is vision here and if one word were to summarize it which Ryan has used often:-

"Fractal".

Maybe if you look at the fractal picture quickly you only see a weird and definite shape. Were you to look closer you'd see how crazy these shapes really are... and they're all over nature, funnily enough!

Here's the picture again:-

Fractal: "HEX -> Settlement -> Buildings -> Character Roles"

Goblin Squad Member

celestialiar wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:
celestialiar wrote:
I feel that the specialness comes less from raw game play than vision. I haven't heard any magic words from PFO staff about their vision. That may be an issue. I understand there is hype, but have we even heard a speech on "What will make PFO different?" Other than, you know, it has words you will recognize if you've played dnd.

Are you reading the blogs and some of the dev posts?

I would concede that Goblinworks website although improved is still very unappealing in selling the vision so maybe that is what you are referring to? But then that needs to be tempered with what is actually visible to show I'd also caution so they can't oversell the current state of the game either.

You'll find a lot of players wanting more freedom in mmorpgs albeit fearful of what you mention ganking and hacking and aversive to poor performance from bugginess. You can see this with requests for "EVE Fantasy" all over the place, in fact. Usually such requests fail to categorize what it is about EVE that makes it work. PFO does have those features albeit it has the fortune to come after EVE and see ways of developing the game and culture in different directions that are more socially inclusive perhaps?

Anyway if you want vision, I'd say PFO has it in particular:-

1. Hexes (World)
2. Buildings & Settlements (Home & Community)
3. Roles (Characters)

Those immediately kick-ass imo. At each level there's multiple possibilities of extension and integration of systems. Let's take some examples shall we?

1. We could have Mountain Hexes where it snows highly frequently which is lethal to characters without the right furs and outdoor gear as well as different requirements for survial.
2. We could obviously have Total War armies here.
3. We could have a plethora of roles Assassins (truely in role) and I'm working on a role concept too!

At each level there's so much that could be extended and developed.

That's not a vision to me as much as building blocks. Under them, there are more blocks. Anything could happen. We got hexes, settlements and roles... cool but how will they be used?But sandbox is probably the reply. I don't believe in the hands off sandbox model. That's not a vision. I don't see much freedom, either. It seems pretty standard. Maybe someday I will make a longer post about pfo... and what I feel, but I don't think people care so much.

I'm not mad really, but I'm not excited. I am not like I can't wait to see what happens! Cuz o already kinda see where it's going. My reaction is... oh.

1. Vision:-

the ability to think about or plan the future with imagination or wisdom.

I think it boils down very elgantly.

Let's look again: Hexes, they are dynamic and modular and help create a highly changeable world.
Let's look again: Buildings are extensions of characters and communities and help the players feel as if they have impact on the world of consequence.
Let's look again: Roles, bringing this back into mmorpgs instead of just a combat-machine or The Hero. As before I gave one or two "thrilling" examples.

Tbh I find your communication above not very conducive to discussion it's garbled without pausing to structure a coherent line of thinking, but you asked a very fair question so I felt compelled to answer it, not to attempt to sway you with hype nor tell you what PFO is or should be, but what it could be... and perhaps you failed to recognize that or use your imagination in response to it?

>" I was actually hoping for a game more similar to a table top, with more depth."

I'd say the Tabletop can provide that. They are really great gaming resources from what I've read.

Goblin Squad Member

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celestialiar wrote:
I feel that the specialness comes less from raw game play than vision. I haven't heard any magic words from PFO staff about their vision. That may be an issue. I understand there is hype, but have we even heard a speech on "What will make PFO different?" Other than, you know, it has words you will recognize if you've played dnd.

Are you reading the blogs and some of the dev posts?

I would concede that Goblinworks website although improved is still very unappealing in selling the vision so maybe that is what you are referring to? But then that needs to be tempered with what is actually visible to show I'd also caution so they can't oversell the current state of the game either.

You'll find a lot of players wanting more freedom in mmorpgs albeit fearful of what you mention ganking and hacking and aversive to poor performance from bugginess. You can see this with requests for "EVE Fantasy" all over the place, in fact. Usually such requests fail to categorize what it is about EVE that makes it work. PFO does have those features albeit it has the fortune to come after EVE and see ways of developing the game and culture in different directions that are more socially inclusive perhaps?

Anyway if you want vision, I'd say PFO has it in particular:-

1. Hexes (World)
2. Buildings & Settlements (Home & Community)
3. Roles (Characters)

Those immediately kick-ass imo. At each level there's multiple possibilities of extension and integration of systems. Let's take some examples shall we?

1. We could have Mountain Hexes where it snows highly frequently which is lethal to characters without the right furs and outdoor gear as well as different requirements for survial.
2. We could obviously have Total War armies here.
3. We could have a plethora of roles Assassins (truely in role) and I'm working on a role concept too!

At each level there's so much that could be extended and developed.

Goblin Squad Member

KarlBob wrote:
AvenaOats wrote:
KarlBob wrote:
Jakaal wrote:

AvenaOats the only problem is I'm pretty sure the Great Wheel or w/e D&D called the cosmology in the Planar Handbook wasn't OGL. It's a trope so I think the general idea falls under fair use but I think they have to be careful.

That said yes please on planar travel!
Pathfinder has its own cosmology, complete with various planes of existence and other planets in Golarion's stellar system.

This world-building is very appealing, very artful!

I did find out one nugget of info on Pathfinder's world-building that had me salivating due to it's secrecy... !

Just one? They've buried a bunch of unexplained secrets in the lore.

I think the biggest is "What happened to Aroden?!?" On the brink of the fulfillment of a major prophecy, he suddenly goes incommunicado. No more prophecies, no more spells for his clerics. Nothing. As far as anyone can tell, the God of Humanity just died. Nobody claimed credit for killing him. A permanent hurricane erupted that drowned two or three countries, and it's still swirling in place a hundred years later.

Which mystery caught your attention?

*AvenaOats' eyes narrow sharply, and shift rapidly left and right and back-again*

I'm seriously going to have to dig into all these, thanks for sharing those 3 links in particular (they're all excellent and book-marked). It's really "luciferase?" to explore such world-building, I find. Difficult to find the right word. :)

I know the "unwritten rules" on story-telling just about enough to know that I'm now compelled to return the favor... and not to, some sort of curse will afflict me? However I can invoke the rule that allows the teller of a tale to avoid an anti-climax, which let's me off the hook (only just!). The small secret, a mere trifle compared to the grand designs of dieties, is in part Paizo lore/cannon and in part a tiny sprinkle of spice added... connecting the dots in the lore, while I was doing some research on a number of werewolf materials. To stick to story and not enter the territory of "sale" given this is a favored and focused subject, it concerns the mythology of these beings and their origins. I think something very interesting is buried within it that is somewhat "original" and remains veiled. When a story fits together so well and yet has not been uttered... is it begging to be told or is there a calamitous reason it has not been told? That worries me, but I have a hunch it's the former in this case. Afterall, a good story has to start with ONE set of footprints, doesn't it?

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KarlBob wrote:
Jakaal wrote:

AvenaOats the only problem is I'm pretty sure the Great Wheel or w/e D&D called the cosmology in the Planar Handbook wasn't OGL. It's a trope so I think the general idea falls under fair use but I think they have to be careful.

That said yes please on planar travel!
Pathfinder has its own cosmology, complete with various planes of existence and other planets in Golarion's stellar system.

This world-building is very appealing, very artful!

I did find out one nugget of info on Pathfinder's world-building that had me salivating due to it's secrecy... !

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Trikk wrote:
Being wrote:
That is what turned me off right from the git-go. I suppose in a way that is shallow of me, the game-play should have been a priority, and player interaction should have been at the top of the list, but visual style immediately suggested a juvenile theme that was about as attractive and interesting as Candy-Land and I never got close enough to find out first hand whether it was just the overwrapping of a good game. I figured I would hear good things about it if it were worth my time, especially since my guild had a sizeable contingent in its beta.
Presentation is actually important to the gameplay experience. I don't follow Epic Games assertion that "eyecandy = gameplay", but the artistic style of a game definitely affects the experience. It's not about texture resolution or fancy lighting effects, but the basic character design, environments, etc.

Well although what you write is very informative, eg "calcuated whackiness" resonates, I think Being was definitely on the right tracks, you can sometimes tell a lot about a game's aesthetics that inform "deeper" intentions of how the game is played and hence what the perhaps you can call it "design philosophy" is actually trying to say to the player and community?

Personally a grittier art style for PFO would be fine by me, but I see they're attempting to keep the current Paizo Pathfinder flavor for continuity. It's so important if they're trying to develop social systems in the game such as buildings, politics, taxes (and death!). That said given it's high fantasy the idea of "Planes of Existence" I have a peccadillo for this being more expressed! :)

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I always thought of Dolphins as looking very happy: "Happiest Dolphin Ever"?!

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On Wildstar the things that struck me which led to having no interest at all and possibly little insight to share, hence:-

  • The Loony-Tunes aesthetic made me believe it was a young kid's game which suggested I was not the target market nor would find the social community that I'm looking for there.
  • The Themepark/WOW game design

    And reasons I thought it might struggle:-

  • The MMO Market of Content Locust players pattern
  • The proliferation of Online Games vs an old mmorpg finite content model ie increased competition across games

As for PFO's current MVP core game loop. Not played but I think territory control and farming resources and mobs in your bit of territory and preventing others raiding it, well jealously guarding our land seems very appealing and farming those mobs and nodes ensuring their harvest is collected for the group and not into the hands of those other gangs of players. That sounds motivating given that context to it.

I guess there will be players who like fighting mobs, again I'm not much of a fan of fighting AI PvE mobs so maybe can't share many insights here either. Cracking other players skulls and taking their harvest though...

Goblin Squad Member

Tbh most people stay clear of alpha for a good reason. Last game I tested burnt me out in no time and the "will to log in" deserted me for either a long time or permanently tbh, hence I'm not in PFO Alpha. Also getting my computer sorted (graphics card, RAM and Win7 OS and borrowing a decent screen and throwing away the bad screen I got off ebay).

Goblin Squad Member

@Thod: It's a very, very useful thread. Some summary and consolidation of "How To Improve Your" Network Connectivity (and buy a good graphics card!) posted as per GW's Custom Operations function will be very useful as you point out.

I was going to say I have one of those 20m cables for direct connection. Saves a lot of wifi fiddling. Also defragmentation and getting the computer to run efficiently is good practice in anycase. The specific software again as another option for them that want it, it provides a range of different options from simple to complex from quick and free to longer and cost etc.

Goblin Squad Member

Blaeringr wrote:
I notice a lot has been discussed about tricks ISPs may or may not use, and methods that may or may not work to get around such tricks, but I also notice that the original question has been ignored, evaded and deflected.

Well from our resident cowled and cloaked shadow, that's aligned! ;)

I've provided some input on what an END-USER can do their end.

I've deliberately avoided any suggestion of inference what Goblinworks have to do SERVER-SIDE as that is beyond my understanding. I don't know much at all about Netcode. But what Ryan says about increase in data (more players in density) leading to increase in packet data loss rates rising (??) sounds plausible to my amateur ears as a major explanation and rising above a threshold you get kicked?

Minor explanations probably are the Client/User-side stuff to speed up the connection... probably helps somewhat and for other internet usage anyway so of use even if it is minor contribution. :)

Goblin Squad Member

I think it's important to feedback to GW devs our responses. My clear response is this seems unequivocally the most sustainable and productive choice to make from the various impressions I'm privy to about PFO's requirements to hit MVP in sufficient quality for EE day 1.

Goblin Squad Member

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Think this is a positive delay. I'd say I feel a lot happier with this decision, my antennae are less twitchy already! :)

Goblin Squad Member

Just to chip in. Developing a particular brand of RP coined "PAR" after Ryan's additions to the subject or related to the subject which ever is more applicable:-

RP = Role-Playing

PAR = Playing A Role

Of course our activities will be scheduled only during the phases of the Full Moon, so the overhead on this choice of gameplay will be minimal conflict with the character's normal duties.

It's turning out to be a complex project but very rewarding. Got 1/4 done and working on the other 3/4 atm then need to exchange this "vision" into a "blueprint" with the other members before discussing further with the wider PFO Community.

Goblin Squad Member

Hrn, here's some guidelines I was looking into in case of issues:-

1. Restart your router!

2. Check if your ISP is throttling your BB

Use measurementlab.net . If throttling then maybe complain to EE's customer service department (who will get complaints daily). Keep records of your communication with your ISP. If you do dump them then look for a new provider who uses Local-Loop Unbundling (LLU).

3. Switch to a faster DNS Server

There's "DNS Benchmark" "DNS Jumper" tools grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm to use for this exercise if desired.

4. Wi-Fi problems would involve further solutions (Channel, new firmware for your router, repeater and positioning of router), but the above are worth looking into if you have a direct connection to your computer. And check none others are using your wifi channel.

After that I guess you're at the mercy of your ISP.

A quick google for general solutions:-

blog.wtfast.com/2013/01/8-tips-to-reduce-lag-while-playing-mmorpg.html

Maybe there is something helpful here. It's just a bit of research I did for my own uses in the event.

Goblin Squad Member

Thod there should be various tech boffins in the forums who can advise?

That said, I've looked into this and when I get time will try to post/posit some resources for use on such issues. It's a very energetic w/e so forgive me if I fail in advance to get back today and I'm not a tech expert either so these are just pointers/resources you may already have covered/know of.

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Really interesting blog. Won't be able to log in until end of Sept but really looking forward to it when I do.

Thank you so much Goblinworks... "Stay thirsty my friends."

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Just ensure networking and performance work and then gameplay and then art.

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I was sold on the idea of PFO in part what I wanted in mmorpg "more freedom" from myself and in part from what Ryan demonstrated in design and again in engagement with interested people.

I was sold on the idea of EE despite limitations in part due to lack of alternatives and again because there's a chance a good quality community will harbour in EE, which adds a lot of value imo.

I did not realize Ryan had such a history in games previously but certainly did recognise the design idea was really great even if the implementation challenges still remained "staggering"!!!

Goblin Squad Member

Veeeery interesting interview (good interviewer and interviewee: It takes 2 two Tango as the saying goes).

What stood out for me the most was the way Ryan mentioned how unpredictable confluences were often important in how things shaped up.
Kinda interesting how the players seem to be the best sovereigns of an IP, in the end?! At least that was my take from the interview... !

Good question on "was it Pathfinder or was it an MMO?"

Maybe it's redundant if as per Ryan mentioning, at these various stages it provides "opportunity for conflict". Also combines with the idea of licensing the online aspect and the financial choices behind that.

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Tyncale wrote:

I think we need proto-settlements and marketplaces (planned for alpha 8, yay!) so that people can truly start to attach themselves to a patch of land, and start accumulating wealth for their settlement even if there's only a single shack standing there.

I feel that we are very close to these things, so I would say it is almost MVP. Certainly needs tweaks and improvements on the UI-side of things though (Tooltips, Targeting).

I definitely see where you are coming from here. Guess this is MVP + 1, given all the below stuff needs to run smooth and iron out more "stuff". Then we get this it becomes more about as you say sustaining interest.

Lisa Stevens wrote:
Btw, there are also some high level wolf-type monsters that have been built, but I haven't seen them yet in the game, including worgs, winter wolves, and even hell hounds!

Music to my ears.

Feel like I'm more up to speed with where the game is now.

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Actually sounds positive to me: The game world being dangerous and players sticking to their locality, I think that is ideal for a denser game world.

Goblin Squad Member

I think once territory kicks in the game world map becomes that much more dense and navigating a route more of an accomplishment itself.

On to that what do people make of the hex sizes and distance to travel?

That's a big parameter?

Goblin Squad Member

Calidor Cruciatus wrote:

These are just the observations of a NON-ALPHA player from a few hours of watching streams:

1 and 2 are done in fairly rudimentary state. Especially the crafting parts. Due to the pretty limited testing I think we just don't know about #3 and especially #4.

I think the MVP is missing something very important right now though... and that is a PURPOSE. Even Ryan has said that launching EE (or MVP) without meaningful territory combat wouldn't make sense and that is why they were developing the War of the Towers as a placeholder.

I think it's a very key and valid question to ask when that functionality will be in game and functional because to me, that is really the feature that makes this a game and not just a pointless, kill monster fest with occasional pointless ganking via PvP.

Yeah I'm hoping the various player groups get their identities and parcels of land and become very territorial (and touchy!) and then seek to amass power and the strategy kicks in.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks for the specific insights on the combat quality. That ramps up the appeal of the MVP a lot.

Let's hope the War of Towers gets the ball rolling flagging some more.

So far more positive than I was expecting.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks a lot Xeen.

Hrm, they did say PvP would be kept on a tight leash to begin with iirc / same with the economy? I'm hoping they'll loosen up on this over time eg contract system and career systems of being a bounty-hunter or bandit etc via flags?

What's the combat like? Satisfactory for MVP?

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks for that Urman.

I don't suppose you've got feedback on segment 4 too?!

And what about the overall feel of the game and the responsiveness of combat etc?

Anyone else alpha testing, don't be shy! Thanks.

Goblin Squad Member

Ryan Described this very well here in this interview:

The core game loop

To make our MVP, we had to figure out what the smallest number of features were needed to implement a compelling game loop with meaningful human interactions. We decided that our loop would have two interconnected segments.

  • Segment one would be finding monsters in the world, killing them, and taking their stuff.

  • Segment two would be finding resources, harvesting those resources, and turning the resources into crafted goods.

  • The interconnection would be that the stuff one character crafted would make another character better at killing monsters.

We also accepted that there would be a complication of this interconnection:

  • Killing another character and taking its stuff would be a shortcut.

We have a grand plan for where our game will eventually take us that involves vast territorial battles for control of the map, fought by huge organizations of players collectively working together for common purpose. We imagine a time when players can build characters that are experts in a wide range of careers from soldier to diplomat to teamster to spy and hundreds more. But for the purposes of our MVP, we think we can be viable with the game loop described above. Everything else can (and will) come later.

I'm guessing the basic gameplay "feel" is the key as is the core combat and how fun that is. Then how those are a part of the above game loop successfully.

All comments appreciated. I'm probably going to hold off hopping into EE on day 1 (moving around and getting a new graphics card etc) but also will jump in when I think the above is up to standard.

Please provide your feedback modelled on the above or in a more relevant way?

Thanks.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks OP, such feedback is worth knowing, I'm sure there's a successful market segment for PFO and it's a question of where to scan for it.

My bros are married with young families and they are always asking me over to "visit". :)

Goblin Squad Member

Welcome/Aloha GrandpaDJ.

Just curious, where did you stumble by PFO, first? And bonus question, what in particular concerning the vision caught your eye?

I ask, so as you can contextualize the questions, because it provides me with an idea of who is drawn to the idea of PFO at this early stage any what about it they feel compensates it's vestigial current state of development.

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TEO Cheatle wrote:

By Christmas...(around the time we have to start paying)

This game will be vastly different, WoT might be over, maybe not? Although everything they have stated that will be in during month 1, will be in by then.

They will also have a ton of the kinks ironed out, bugs fixed, and code optimized. At this point, they will probably be working on implementing bulk resources and PoIs, while we will be sitting pretty at around level 10, in our mini settlements, attempting to craft T2 Gear...

Worth holding onto that thought, rough seas ahoooy!!!

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Calidor Cruciatus wrote:
Ravenlute wrote:
Calidor Cruciatus wrote:

Very disappointing news that the barebones MVP is going to be even further cut back. Yes, the small hardcore base will not complain, but it's not a good sign IMHO.

Just delay the damn thing for another month. The recent survey shows overwhelming support for that.

1 week. How is that not a good sign? They are willing to say that they need to do a little extra before going ahead instead of just dumping it out there. It was only recently that they even announced when they wanted to start EE.

Sheesh. *drama*

I don't think you read my message correctly.

Tbh, staggering probably makes the most sense. Sure a lot of peeps might be a bit disappointed not to jump in on day 1 along with everyone else because they want to wait for the full MVP features to be in, but it balances the various necessities this way I imagine.

Just hold off and dive in a bit later. That's what I plan to do.

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It's pretty simple, if you don't feel like the game launch on 22nd is up to scratch, then don't spend your xp-time on it or even just pop one month's worth.

Personally I'm fine with others jumping in and myself jumping in later, given the current update.

I'm sure the devs appreciate that but I doubt they'll cheerfully announce that option: They want players both playing (working the game code) and paying (paying them to work!)

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Q1: What do alpha players think of the current status and how that translates to M.Viable.P. for EE?

Q2: One of the reasons GW may want an earlier release than later irrespective of full content/features implemenented could be to do with the server and network of having many more players in the game (it sounds like they're keen to raise the numbers but ensure the density is kept managed in the recent update. If so, would GW consider free training-time for those that take the plunge and jump in without the full features, listed as a compromise, or even x1/2 cost of training time?

Q3: I kinda want to know some spec info, as I need a new graphics card so this info to have before hand is useful to be prepared to download and run the client, any details on this before EE start?

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Hello, "So, how many times have YOU clicked refresh on goblinworks.com / blog?" my old friend, I've come to talk with you again...

Goblin Squad Member

albadeon wrote:

There will always be a bit of each due to the necessity to adapt your character concept to game mechanics. To me, the relevant question is, what takes precedence, when the two conflict?

IE, I play a dwarven cleric of Torag with a nice big hammer as a weapon. Now, in game, I happen to loot a bow and find that bows are seriously op.
As a role player, I stick with my hammer.
As a non role player, playing the game as intended, I take up the better weapon.
As a meta-gamer, I look through the internet to find which bow has the best stats and go look for that one.

If the Hammer is significant part of your character concept whom you're building and attempting to understand how they would act, then I would hope you do what MUST be done, and not rest, nor stop until the sound of hammers falling on anvils (and goblin heads) rings across the River Kingdoms, that all players everywhere know the importance of hammers!

I'm working on a character concept myself and when it's done I'll pass it by you.

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To square the circle imho, RP needs to match emergent gameplay from the mechanics the devs have designed. I think a balance is possible, but not full-blown "theatre of the mind" without connecting to the possibilities of emergence from the game rules itself.

Goblin Squad Member

Quote:
Thornguards in all settlements now have one minute respawn timers. (Try your takeover NOW Cheatle!)

Thornkeep's Most Wanted!!! XXXX Goblinsballs!!!

Goblin Squad Member

Q.9: I'd argued an open question of how much delay would you tolerate from 15th Sept for GW to continue development from days to weeks to months?
Q.10: Appears to be missing.
Q.11+12. Ideally point out they are both linked
Q14. Was the most interesting; I think if you can ask lots of question with different formats, it keeps the questioner's brain more engaged in providing a true-to-gut feeling response... so this is good here. That said I struggle to find 3 lowest from the options available, so it felt random providing 3 lowest as my answer. 3 Highest was clear to me by contrast. Also highlight 3 highest and 3 lowest in the question for clarity.
Q.15+16. Ideally point out they are both linked.

Q.X (10!): Suggest a question on what sort of things do you want/expect from Crowdforging too.

Goblin Squad Member

I'm no artist, but there's a very solid balance of light to heavy gradation change that is visible but essentially imo, not over-the-top either but looks right: Function -> Form not Form -> Function if that is a distinction that is clear to make.

Goblin Squad Member

Will Hide-Outs perform a similar function albeit more "gamified"?

Goblin Squad Member

Snitches Laden wrote:
Thanks Man, I fell back in love with MMO's once I found out about eve-online unfortunately I was ten years to late to the party I'll see what I can do man Love Path Finder and not having to DM would be amazing lol.

That's my story with EVE tbh. I always meant to jump in but kept delaying and now it makes more sense to give PFO a go. So much choice and so little time. I like the idea of a Game Of Thrones dynamic more as well. I'd say I really want to see mmorpg genre take more of EVE's concept forwards also and see what it leads to.

Goblin Squad Member

Devs plan on designing this:- Screaming for Vengeance, amongst other Contracts: Signed... in Blood

But the game will launch in Early Enrollment as an "MVP" (Minimum Viable Product) Big Things Have Small Beginnings and add systems via "Crowdforging" Announcing a New Crowdforging Tool: Ideasscale or this ad hoc unofficial one: Poll: Crowdforging feature implementation priority

Snitches Laden wrote:
I think that adding something like this to the game will not only make player interactions more meaningful...

Bingo. Could be an awesome role for player to take up.

Goblin Squad Member

Well I'm happy to see the Legal System is top of the charts atm.

However, I'd IMPLORE! :) people to vote for Caravans next. The Legal System is highly necessary to create status information between players and groups of players: Such information is rich for gameplay. But also just behind that is moving heavy goods is also rich in gameplay due to it's information impact on the economy and if it needs hauling via caravans that is a major economic trade requirements if it cannot be moved so easily without such "heavy-lifting" major operations to move. It should make economies more localized due to such severe limitations of movement of such goods and time to do so and exposure as high exposure target for aggressors further increasing the importance of this feature to the game for economy and pvp and organization.

Goblin Squad Member

I really like it (big fan of ambushing). It's allowing the a option to actually "hide in cover" which you normally can't do in mmorpgs. hence my usual favorite of finding a climbable tree and spending a few minutes climbing high up out of field of vision. Few and far between in most mmorpgs though.

Could limit to requiring some vegetation nearby instead of anywhere?

Love the idea, think it's necessary.

Goblin Squad Member

Master of Shadows wrote:

Some of this goes back to one of my fundamental frustrations with this game.

When I first heard of PFO back in the begining of kickstarter 2 I was sold on the concept of a Classless skill based system where I could train any character to have any skill. I thought to myself, "great, finally a game where I don't have to be pidgeonholed into someone elses preconceived notion of what makes an effective character! I can build the character I want who has access to the skills and abilities I want him to have in order to best meet the play style I enjoy. And its even being made by the folks who make my favorite table top game!" Alas it was not to be. Although I can train any skill from any role (read class), I am limited to slotting only a handful of them at a time, and if I want to acheive peak efficacy in one ability, I must sacrifice access to another ability, and won't have access to certain other abilities because you can only slot one role(read class) at a time.

I argue that abandoning this silly notion of Roles/Classes altogether is the right thing to do. It would be a simple matter to take all the abilities currently tied to roles and just give them xp/achievement requirements like any other feat or skill. If someone wants to make a Arcane spell caster wearing full plate he should be able to (with enough investment) be able to achieve maximum efficacy for both his spells and his armor. If someone wants to make a pajama-wearing unarmed monk who focuses on total defense actions and can Tank he should be able to.

It can be hard to untangle.

Imho, however, the way to conceptualize it is as per Spaceships:-

1. Choose a hull type
2. Choose weapons/shieds
3. Choose speed/movement
4. Choose fuel tank

etc.

When you make once choice eg Hull, you're already building a particular kind of tree-build with a particular emphasis: Slow but high armour-shields, low movement, but high cargo hold etc...

IE you're anticipating and planning your FUTURE FUNCTION for the specific goal you want to achieve.

Tbh, this is the best way forward. It allows players to choose MORE future functions but keep each built for those functions specific/specialized towards doing that more effectively. It's not about the build it's about the goal = interesting decisions for players and ideally as they play more MORE of those to be able to make.

Goblin Squad Member

There's 2 major technological opportunities with digital games vs physical games I can think of to compare:-

1. Networking many, many people into the same game space.
2. Linking many, many hugely powerful human brains to harness in that game space.

The design of PFO does align with this in mind, so at least it's first step is in the right direction unlike most mmorpgs that have been developed, which may have travelled very far - but in a different direction and hence you can't help but ask the question, if not using the above, then why not just play a nice game of turn-based DnD/Pathfinder/TT instead?

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
What is the expected problem that death penalties are intended to mitigate? Spawn rushing is already a prohibitively expensive tactic.

I just see the suggestion I proposed above as a fun system to mess with the "reality of the game world" according to Pharasma's Mark.

Interestingly I see Camelot Unchained has similar idea for stealth; it's an idea that I would like to see more of in fantasy. There may be important repercussions with the pillars and a fair bit of fiddling with the radius of death - who knows could be an upgrade path!

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