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Well, something drove the Germans to kill in the 1930s and 1940s, and I don't think it was the spätlese. If you want to dismiss it as "magic," just remember that the Germans collectively apparently failed their Will save and six million died.
Free will and determination to do so? And collectively they and their victims paid the price.
And, just this week, a man in Kansas apparently failed his Will save and gunned down three people while shouting "Heil Hitler!" One could try to argue -- I'm sure his defense attorney, for one, will try -- that there's no relationship between his Nazi ideology and the fact that he tried to shoot people outside a Jewish center. But based only on what I've read so far, I think that will be a difficult argument to present.
So what you are saying is that the words/ideology manipulated his mind so much that he is not personally accountable? Got it.
Well, if D&D had killed six million people, or six hundred, for that matter, the crusades would have been well-founded.
An ideology alone did not kill 6 million people - it was the Germans, allies and sponsor states that did. These people were not suddenly "transformed" into murdering monsters and then once they shed the party and after the war they "transformed" back, i.e. gained a conscious. Absurd and simplistic view on the matter. Hatred of European Jews was vogue and in style prior to the war - this wasn't one man or magic words that did it - there were people behind those actions. Willing people.
This mindset that Nazism killed 6 million people is a form of displacement, as if the responsibility of German people lies in a corrupt ideology, as if they were possessed by mass hypnosis and hold no accountability for their actions. It was the Nazis, it wasn’t us – it was that ideology – we’re not to blame, we were lulled by the propaganda. Excuse central: We were just following orders.
Nazism was a manifestation of their hatred, it was a vehicle - it was not the cause. Stop making excuses.
Are we? What's your explanation of the Kansas shootings?
An ignorant and rage filled moron taking it out on society?Do you think that if that clown did not have the KKK in his life that he would have turned out as a stellar, upright and productive citizen? You are making excuses for peoples actions - Nazism, Satanism, video games made me do it, Judas Priest and Slayer desensitized me to murder, blah, blah - the bleating of sheep.
That's a theory, certainly. The fact that there's a strong underground Fascist or WP music countercultural scene in the United States, where Holocaust denial is not illegal, suggests that you may not have your cause and effect right. In fact, the strongest Fascist party in Europe today is probably in Greece, which does not have any of the laws you decry.
There was the US in the 90’s, it's just a shadow of its former self...right now.
Europe, South America and Russia are where it’s at if we are talking WP music scene.
And I never said that there was a cause = effect, that’s your argument. I was talking about keeping it in the shadows as not being an effective tool for eliminating it. In the US there is a strong social stigma against it - a taboo subject –sporting that symbolism is also a great way to get tagged by law enforcement and the Feds, so again you get that rebel draw.
And I am very familiar with the Golden Dawn in Greece – maybe the people there need to study their history and the history of their region a little better – otherwise they deserve whatever they get.
I am not decrying their laws – it’s their country and their choice and I even explained their motivation for having those laws. My view on the matter is that it doesn’t help and in fact just adds more power to that belief system – that it’s revolutionary and needs to be banned because the current regime and society are terrified of it and it’s dangerous.
It should be brought out into the light of day and exposed, over and over again.
I do not explicitly believe that symbols and ideas = cause, what I did say was that it was a draw, an attraction. What I also said (and you dodged and keep dodging) is that Europe has a fascism/fanaticism problem - which you failed to address. They are afraid that their sheep will be drawn in by the call to arms - if your society is that gullible than you have bigger problems than trying to control speech to prevent that from happening.
Auxmaulous wrote:I understand their reflexive action and motivation for doing so - considering their history and the body count,I don't think you do.
Better than you can imagine and better than you.